Ignoramus3194 fired this volley in
:


We were going to carbon-arc cut a big turbine, so this was very
relevant, thanks.


If you make a bib for your helmet, you might want to consider velcro-ing
it in place or using clothing snaps, rather than attaching it
permanently. Even a short one gets to be a pain in the ass if you do a
lot of helmet flipping.

I use a leather sleeve for gouging or overhead work (with other leathers
for overhead, too).

Lloyd


LLoyd

On 8/19/2012 5:58 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
....

It could come from a different factory in a different province. Your
confidence (such as it is) has to come from HF itself.
....

My point exactly. I have _zero_ confidence in HF being anything other
than the cheapest they can find...

--

On 8/19/2012 8:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
....

I wonder if dpb understands that even Miller helmets are made in China
these days?
....

Perhaps but you can get a set of spec's and they do warrant them to meet
applicable ANSI Standard, etc. I have more confidence that Miller does,
in fact, ensure that the product _does_ actually meet those.

You can't find even a hint that HF stands behind theirs at that level.
No claim whatever on actual performance and I have no faith whatever
that HF makes any pretense whatsoever of ensuring they do.

--

dpb wrote:
On 8/19/2012 8:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

I wonder if dpb understands that even Miller helmets are made in China
these days?
...

Perhaps but you can get a set of spec's and they do warrant them to meet
applicable ANSI Standard, etc. I have more confidence that Miller does,
in fact, ensure that the product _does_ actually meet those.

You can't find even a hint that HF stands behind theirs at that level.
No claim whatever on actual performance and I have no faith whatever
that HF makes any pretense whatsoever of ensuring they do.

--

Guess you never looked.

Item # 67854

Description
The lens on this auto darkening welding helmet measures 3-7/8"x 1-3/4,"
providing a full view of your workspace. The welding helmet lens darkens
in 1/25,000 of a second and features variable shade control. A
ratcheting headband and padded interior allow you to wear this welding
helmet in comfort while you weld in safety.

Darkens in 1/25,000 second (clear #4 to dark state)
Variable shade control - shades #9 to #13
High/low light-sensitivity adjustment
UV/IR protection

Meets ANSI Z87.1-1989 standards

We guarantee this product to be free from defects in materials and
workmanship 90 days from the date of purchase. Limitations apply.



--
Steve W.

On Aug 19, 6:58*pm, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:



It could come from a different factory in a different province. Your
confidence (such as it is) has to come from HF itself.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." * * * * * * * * * * * * *"The Journey is the reward"
* * * * * * Info for manufacturers:http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog *Info for designers: *http://www.speff.com

I think that HF uses a different item numbers for similar items from
different manufacturers. I know that is what I would do if I were
selling things made in different factories. The same as Sears uses
part of the model number to indicate what factory. It makes providing
manual easier, ditto for spare parts and cost nothing to do.


Dan

On Aug 19, 9:42*pm, dpb wrote:

Perhaps but you can get a set of spec's and they do warrant them to meet
applicable ANSI Standard, etc.

From the Harbor Freight web site for one of the welding helmets.


Meets CE and ANSI Z87.1-1989 standards

And Harbor Freight seems to do better than Sears as far as replacing
broken tools. I can understand not replacing dull drill bits, but
Sears will not replace a Craftsman spade type drill for drilling pilot
holes for wood screws. The damn thing broke in half in normal use.


Dan

On 08/19/2012 06:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 18:58:16 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 17:54:26 -0500, the renowned dpb
wrote:

On 8/19/2012 3:43 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 09:40:45 -0500, wrote:
On 8/19/2012 9:08 AM, Jon Danniken wrote:
...
My HF (actually Western Safety) still works, ...
...

I have no doubts as to the safety provided by the unit, ...
...

I can't bring myself to trust HF QC to that point...maybe they are
ensuring the glass _always_ meets ANSI Z-spec's but I just am not that
sure they care ...


Of all the HF stuff out there..the autodark hoods are one of their best
items....

Well "their" w/ HF is all relative. I see today they're saying "Chicago
Welding" brand. W(ho)TH is Chicago Welding? Some noname Chinese
importing outfit in all likelihood. One can't find a thing out about
them other than HF sells stuff w/ the brand.

It's HF's store brand, like Kirkland at Costco.

Who knows what spec's they actually meet and where do you go to find out?

Maybe they're as good as anybody else's but I don't have much confidence
that the next one will be the same as somebody else's was.

It could come from a different factory in a different province. Your
confidence (such as it is) has to come from HF itself.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

I wonder if dpb understands that even Miller helmets are made in China
these days?

Anyone know of an actual American hood manufacture?

I picked up a fixed shade Sellstrom last year (craigslist, $5.00) that
was made in USA. From a cursory look at their website it looks like
they are still made here.

http://www.sellstrom.com/company

Jon

On 08/19/2012 01:19 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ive seen a few of them do that. One thing to try..not saying it will
actually fix it...but lay it face up out in the direct sun for a few
hours. Then check it. Ive seen a few elements go striated like that if
they were kept in a cabinet for a while and they straightened out after
a couple hours in the sun. Shrug

You do know that HF will simply hand you a new one if you take it back
and ask for an exchange..right? Keep the original cover glass packages.
They come in handy occasionally if you get a booger flicked up on the
lens.

I've had it for a few years now, I'll give it a day in the sun to see
what happens to it. As to taking it back, well, I don't know if it was
bad when I bought it, and I've gotten enough usage out of it to not feel
good about doing that.

I did replace my HF drill press clamp though, as the packaging says
lifetime guarantee on it, and the break was an obvious defect.

Jon

On 8/19/2012 8:10 PM, wrote:
On Aug 19, 9:42 pm, dpb wrote:

Perhaps but you can get a set of spec's and they do warrant them to meet
applicable ANSI Standard, etc.

From the Harbor Freight web site for one of the welding helmets.


Meets CE and ANSI Z87.1-1989 standards

And Harbor Freight seems to do better than Sears as far as replacing
broken tools. I can understand not replacing dull drill bits, but
Sears will not replace a Craftsman spade type drill for drilling pilot
holes for wood screws. The damn thing broke in half in normal use.


Dan


years ago, sears refused to replace a broken Craftsman branded allen
wrench. I cut a copy of the lifetime warranty out of a catalog and
mailed the broken wrench, the warranty statement and a simple demand
letter to the president of Sears in Chicago. In exactly 4 days I had a
letter in my mail from the local sears store manager that basically said
"I sure wish you hadn't written that letter", and it included a
replacement wrench. Interestingly the replacement wrench was defective,
so I took it back to the tool department for a replacement - I didn't
even get all the way into the tool section before one of the sears staff
let out a shriek and ran (literally ran) over to me and said "I'LL
REPLACE THAT FOR YOU IMMEDIATELY, SIR!!!"

I have no idea if a similar letter today would have similar results, but
it's worth a try.

Gunner Asch on Sun, 19 Aug 2012 18:55:11 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 19:06:12 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ignoramus3194 fired this volley in
om:


We were going to carbon-arc cut a big turbine, so this was very
relevant, thanks.


If you make a bib for your helmet, you might want to consider velcro-ing
it in place or using clothing snaps, rather than attaching it
permanently. Even a short one gets to be a pain in the ass if you do a
lot of helmet flipping.

Oddly enough..I generally take off the hood, rather than flipping it.
One of several bad habits Ive gotten over the years.

Actually, flipping a hood, especially if you do it by shaking your
head, is a "bad habit" - puts a lot of stress on the neck. Unless
you're one of those bull necked "That man has no neck" guys. Even
then ...

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

On 8/19/2012 8:52 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:14:17 -0500, wrote:

On 8/19/2012 5:58 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
...

It could come from a different factory in a different province. Your
confidence (such as it is) has to come from HF itself.
...

My point exactly. I have _zero_ confidence in HF being anything other
than the cheapest they can find...

Thats always a bad thing? Meets the specs for the lowest possible price
and its a bad thing?? for something like this???
....

_WHAT_ spec's does it meet? That's the problem--they don't provide any.

--

dpb fired this volley in news:k0t5ot$a4k$1
@speranza.aioe.org:


_WHAT_ spec's does it meet? That's the problem--they don't provide
any.

Haven't you read the responses here? Are you selectively blocking some
users?

Harbor freight cites the ANSI specification their helmets meet.
They cite it in their online catalog. I presume they do so in any
written catalogs or sales flyers, as well.

Why do you persist in saying that they do not provide specifications when
you've been shown that they do?

(I'm not a great HF fan, but if it's true, it's true)

LLoyd

On 8/20/2012 6:26 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in news:k0t5ot$a4k$1
@speranza.aioe.org:


_WHAT_ spec's does it meet? That's the problem--they don't provide
any.

Haven't you read the responses here? Are you selectively blocking some
users?
....

Yes, and yes... (but not the ones in this thread; I hadn't seen them
all at the time of posting)

I _did_ look -- the ones I saw widely promoted did _NOT_ have any
indication of meeting ANSI Std's on any link I saw.

I did finally follow one other path that did show one that did--so
perhaps either there's a rendering difference between browsers or there
are different products or somesuch but I had been unable to find the
indication of performance spec's other than the 90-day warranty stuff
which by itself is meaningless.

But, I still don't trust HF unequivocally to ensure their products meet
the spec's they print. (And, yes, I _AM_ selective that way... )

I do trust the "name-brand" guys to be more careful--maybe it's an
ill-placed trust I don't know but that's me and w/ my eyes I'm willing
to pay's the extra money for perhaps nothing but that feeling. Thing
is, I don't have the way to verify it a priori. So except by bad
results if the low-priced spread doesn't match up and that's not made up
by money back or a lower cost going in...

--

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 06:07:08 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 8/19/2012 8:52 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:14:17 -0500, wrote:

On 8/19/2012 5:58 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
...

It could come from a different factory in a different province. Your
confidence (such as it is) has to come from HF itself.
...

My point exactly. I have _zero_ confidence in HF being anything other
than the cheapest they can find...

Thats always a bad thing? Meets the specs for the lowest possible price
and its a bad thing?? for something like this???
...

_WHAT_ spec's does it meet? That's the problem--they don't provide any.

Of course they do. They meet or exceed the Ansi standards listed by
another poster.

Im curious..what is your problem with HF? Obviously you have one. What
is it?

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

dpb wrote:

On 8/19/2012 8:52 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
? On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:14:17 -0500, ? wrote:
?
?? On 8/19/2012 5:58 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
?? ...
??
??? It could come from a different factory in a different province. Your
??? confidence (such as it is) has to come from HF itself.
?? ...
??
?? My point exactly. I have _zero_ confidence in HF being anything other
?? than the cheapest they can find...
?
? Thats always a bad thing? Meets the specs for the lowest possible price
? and its a bad thing?? for something like this???
...

_WHAT_ spec's does it meet? That's the problem--they don't provide any.


Did you read the manuals, or just the description?

On 2012-08-20, Gunner Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 06:07:08 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 8/19/2012 8:52 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:14:17 -0500, wrote:

On 8/19/2012 5:58 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
...

It could come from a different factory in a different province. Your
confidence (such as it is) has to come from HF itself.
...

My point exactly. I have _zero_ confidence in HF being anything other
than the cheapest they can find...

Thats always a bad thing? Meets the specs for the lowest possible price
and its a bad thing?? for something like this???
...

_WHAT_ spec's does it meet? That's the problem--they don't provide any.

Of course they do. They meet or exceed the Ansi standards listed by
another poster.

Im curious..what is your problem with HF? Obviously you have one. What
is it?


Mine was fine all the way up until it died a little over a year after purchase.

i

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 21:45:53 -0700, Jon Danniken
wrote:

I picked up a fixed shade Sellstrom last year (craigslist, $5.00) that
was made in USA. From a cursory look at their website it looks like
they are still made here.

http://www.sellstrom.com/company

Jon

I wonder if we call them, will they tell us they are assembled here?

Good looking helmets though. Nice! size lens.

Nice design indeed.

Gunner


Sellstrom makes the helmet shell in the US. The auto-dark lenses are
made in China.

Just like many others.

--
Steve W.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 10:22:45 -0500, Ignoramus10037
wrote:

On 2012-08-20, Gunner Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 06:07:08 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 8/19/2012 8:52 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:14:17 -0500, wrote:

On 8/19/2012 5:58 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
...

It could come from a different factory in a different province. Your
confidence (such as it is) has to come from HF itself.
...

My point exactly. I have _zero_ confidence in HF being anything other
than the cheapest they can find...

Thats always a bad thing? Meets the specs for the lowest possible price
and its a bad thing?? for something like this???
...

_WHAT_ spec's does it meet? That's the problem--they don't provide any.

Of course they do. They meet or exceed the Ansi standards listed by
another poster.

Im curious..what is your problem with HF? Obviously you have one. What
is it?


Mine was fine all the way up until it died a little over a year after purchase.

i
My current pair are at least 5 yrs old or older.

Shrug

Yall can buy what you want for the price you want. We do have freedom
to do that. On the other hand...a lot of folks weld so little..that
they dont need the finest money can buy...and with the economy being
in the septic tank...HF is all many people can afford.

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:53:52 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 21:45:53 -0700, Jon Danniken
wrote:

I picked up a fixed shade Sellstrom last year (craigslist, $5.00) that
was made in USA. From a cursory look at their website it looks like
they are still made here.

http://www.sellstrom.com/company

Jon

I wonder if we call them, will they tell us they are assembled here?

Good looking helmets though. Nice! size lens.

Nice design indeed.

Gunner


Sellstrom makes the helmet shell in the US. The auto-dark lenses are
made in China.

Just like many others.


So then they are Assembled here. Sadly. Shrug. The economy...shrug
again.

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

On Monday, August 20, 2012 12:58:33 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:

"Meets ANSI Z87.1-1989 standards". Sounds like dbp as never bothered to

investigate the helmets in question..odd that he is so dead set against

HF..yet apparently knows nothing about their products.



I wonder..does he vote Democrat as well? Thats sort of their way of

thinking. Shrug


And once again, Gunner takes an almost well-reasoned argument and shoots himself in the face by turning it into right-wing spew.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in

However the sand in the eyes is from UV coming in from below and around
the sides..generally from below. Which is why I NEVER tig weld wearing
a white t-shirt, which reflects lUV up into the helmet. Lots of guys
will pop rivit a bit of leather..kinda like a bib on the bottem edge of
the helmet..which protects the neck skin and helps prevent bounce up
into the helmet. Try it..works great! A bit of self stick velcro and a
scrap of leather wont hurt a thing and comes off it you dont like it.

Virtually every TIG welding shop Ive ever been in..and its been a
****load...has hoods with bibs attached to them. And those guys spend 8
hrs a day with a tig in their hands.

It's called a snood in OSHA, and on a wild turkey. I worked at a shop doing
bench tig on SS. Got a hell of a vee burn on my neck. Made a snood out of
a nice piece of brown suede I had that solved the problem. One by one, all
the guys put snoods on their helmets. It also helps if you are doing
overhead, or laying there under what you are welding. Helps keep the
dingleberries from going down your neck.

Steve