Here, a few months ago, I wondered aloud what would
happen if I clamped my saber saw underneath a work
surface so that I could free up my hands to guide
the workpiece. This would allow me, for example to
do miter and notch cuts in steel quickly and accurately.

I tried it and found that I couldn't hold the workpiece
down against the face of the surface for some reason.
I jumped to the conclusion that I needed a larger
'orbital' blade clearance setting but even with that
set for maximum 'return clearance' the work still
vibrated uncontrollably. I wondered what could be the
cause but vectored off to do other chores instead of
engaging in any analysis.

This morning, a commercial on teevee revealed the cause.
Our friends at Rockwell discovered that the
blade was flopping laterally and have included an upper
guide to minimize that. Apparently it works
well enough, if very slowly, even in wood.

https://www.rockwelltools.com/US/BladeRunner_Saw-P1564.aspx?utm_source=BRTV&utm_medium=TV

After watching the demos, I'm convinced that this approach
won't work for me because of the swarf that will jam
in the upper blade guide, causing damage to it in short
order.

Still it is cool to see how they addressed the 'floppy
blade' issue.

Now, I wonder how to make a large jigsaw that uses regular
hack saw blades to do many of the things that the Blade-
Runner is shown doing, without tearing up a blade guide
in the process.

--Winston -- Loves his bandsaw but it won't cut steel and
decent blades are spendy!

In article ,
Winston wrote:
Now, I wonder how to make a large jigsaw that uses regular
hack saw blades to do many of the things that the Blade-
Runner is shown doing, without tearing up a blade guide
in the process.

Look up walking beam saw - though building a bandsaw (or modifying the
one you have to cut steel - mostly a speed issue and the correct blades)
might be as easy, and would cut faster (but it's harder to pierce with.)
If you don't need maximum throat depth, bandsaws get much easier, as you
can bolt two wheels to a post, rather than trying to build a rigid C
frame (much like a jumbo shrimp or military intelligence.)

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

Ecnerwal wrote:

(...)

Look up walking beam saw -

Interesting!
http://treadleit.info/sites/default/files/mainsite/OLDfiles/Scrollsaw-MillersFall-1886A.jpg

I guess they got replaced by the band saw.

...though building a bandsaw (or modifying the
one you have to cut steel - mostly a speed issue and the correct blades)

Still looking for a 'worm transmission' after all these years.

...might be as easy, and would cut faster (but it's harder to pierce with.)
If you don't need maximum throat depth, bandsaws get much easier, as you
can bolt two wheels to a post, rather than trying to build a rigid C
frame (much like a jumbo shrimp or military intelligence.)

Heh!

Thanks!

--Winston

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 06:43:59 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Here, a few months ago, I wondered aloud what would
happen if I clamped my saber saw underneath a work
surface so that I could free up my hands to guide
the workpiece. This would allow me, for example to
do miter and notch cuts in steel quickly and accurately.

I tried it and found that I couldn't hold the workpiece
down against the face of the surface for some reason.

You need a workpiece holddown. Howzbout a rubber inline skate wheel
on a stick, held from above, parallel with the blade direction?


I jumped to the conclusion that I needed a larger
'orbital' blade clearance setting but even with that
set for maximum 'return clearance' the work still
vibrated uncontrollably. I wondered what could be the
cause but vectored off to do other chores instead of
engaging in any analysis.

Prolly holddown. The machine tends to vibrate and it's passed off into
the workpiece, plus the effects of the blade cutting.


This morning, a commercial on teevee revealed the cause.
Our friends at Rockwell discovered that the
blade was flopping laterally and have included an upper
guide to minimize that. Apparently it works
well enough, if very slowly, even in wood.

https://www.rockwelltools.com/US/BladeRunner_Saw-P1564.aspx?utm_source=BRTV&utm_medium=TV

Oh, GAWD, I'm glad I dumped my DISH contract! I watched one of the
little videos they had and instantly remembered.


After watching the demos, I'm convinced that this approach
won't work for me because of the swarf that will jam
in the upper blade guide, causing damage to it in short
order.

Will a dust/swarf-collecting vac help?


Still it is cool to see how they addressed the 'floppy
blade' issue.

With a holddown/guide, eh?


Now, I wonder how to make a large jigsaw that uses regular
hack saw blades to do many of the things that the Blade-
Runner is shown doing, without tearing up a blade guide
in the process.

Use a wire instead of a guide. Tension the upper end like a coping
saw or scrollsaw.


--Winston -- Loves his bandsaw but it won't cut steel and
decent blades are spendy!

Buy a new tool!
http://www.harborfreight.com/portabl...saw-47840.html
$99, on sale for $79, less a 20% coupon you might have = $64 plus $20
for a trio of bimetal blades.

--
Win first, Fight later.

--martial principle of the Samurai

In article ,
Winston wrote:

Still looking for a 'worm transmission' after all these years.

Try a jackshaft - it's a lot more obtanium (and adjustable) way to slow
things down for the home shop budget.

But McMaster will set you right up if you like - try "speed reducer" -
$300-500, with a few outliers above that range. The right angle kind are
worm gears. Page 1014-1015

Or these days, a VFD - you might easily get a 1-phase-in 3-phase-out VFD
and 3-phase motor for less than a speed reducer, and have variable
rather than fixed speed available. Just depends on how you care to go at
the problem (and whether you have 3-phase handy, so you could just use a
3-in, 3-out version.)

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

On Sep 29, 7:43*am, Winston wrote:
Here, a few months ago, I wondered aloud what would
happen if I clamped my saber saw underneath a work
surface so that I could free up my hands to guide
the workpiece. *This would allow me, for example to
do miter and notch cuts in steel quickly and accurately.

I tried it and found that I couldn't hold the workpiece
down against the face of the surface for some reason.
I jumped to the conclusion that I needed a larger
'orbital' blade clearance setting but even with that
set for maximum 'return clearance' the work still
vibrated uncontrollably. *I wondered what could be the
cause but vectored off to do other chores instead of
engaging in any analysis.

This morning, a commercial on teevee revealed the cause.
Our friends at Rockwell discovered that the
blade was flopping laterally and have included an upper
guide to minimize that. *Apparently it works
well enough, if very slowly, even in wood.

https://www.rockwelltools.com/US/BladeRunner_Saw-P1564.aspx?utm_sourc...

After watching the demos, I'm convinced that this approach
won't work for me because of the swarf that will jam
in the upper blade guide, causing damage to it in short
order.

Still it is cool to see how they addressed the 'floppy
blade' issue.

Now, I wonder how to make a large jigsaw that uses regular
hack saw blades to do many of the things that the Blade-
Runner is shown doing, without tearing up a blade guide
in the process.

--Winston -- Loves his bandsaw but it won't cut steel and
* * * * * * * *decent blades are spendy!

I had plans for a multi-purpose table unit that had interchangeable
plates, used a Skil saw, saber saw, one of those "drill press" jigs
and a router. The idea being that you could set it up and knock it
down in an apartment and do woodworking that way. I only ever built
the Skil saw part of it, used it for years and built a lot of
furniture with it. The saber saw part just didn't seem very useful at
the time and I've got a large DeWalt jig saw now to serve that need.
If I need to go heavier, I've got the 4x6 and the table for it. That
DOES cut steel, if a little slowly. And then there's always the OA
rig with roller skates if I feel the need. That could be used to
follow a template. The sawzall is more useful for construction and
demolition. I inherited a saber saw, I've used it maybe once in 5
years and that was before I got the jigsaw.

Stan

"Ecnerwal" wrote
.........
If you don't need maximum throat depth, bandsaws get much easier, as you
can bolt two wheels to a post, rather than trying to build a rigid C
frame (much like a jumbo shrimp or military intelligence.)

That's how I did it.
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...07508265721842

The wheels hang below the straight ladder frame, giving 13" of throat. The
drive wheel axle mounting block with tracking screws is partly visible at
the bottom. The sliding wheel is mounted in a U shaped frame that fits
loosely within the side rails. Bolts through the frame take up the slack and
adjust tracking. I had planned to mill down the axle mounting blocks as
needed to remove twist but the welding came out good enough.

jsw

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 06:43:59 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

I tried it and found that I couldn't hold the workpiece
down against the face of the surface for some reason.

You need a workpiece holddown. Howzbout a rubber inline skate wheel
on a stick, held from above, parallel with the blade direction?

Nuh uh. Read on. De blade be floppy and binds in de cut.

(...)

Prolly holddown. The machine tends to vibrate and it's passed off into
the workpiece, plus the effects of the blade cutting.

Floppy blade. The workpiece resisted all attempts to
seat on the table, despite a considerable amount of
clamping pressure provided by yours truly.

This morning, a commercial on teevee revealed the cause.
Our friends at Rockwell discovered that the
blade was flopping laterally and have included an upper
guide to minimize that. Apparently it works
well enough, if very slowly, even in wood.

https://www.rockwelltools.com/US/BladeRunner_Saw-P1564.aspx?utm_source=BRTV&utm_medium=TV

Oh, GAWD, I'm glad I dumped my DISH contract! I watched one of the
little videos they had and instantly remembered.

"It came back to me like the hot kiss on the end of a wet fist."
Thank you Firesign Theatre

After watching the demos, I'm convinced that this approach
won't work for me because of the swarf that will jam
in the upper blade guide, causing damage to it in short
order.

Will a dust/swarf-collecting vac help?

Some. Not enough, though.
One chip trapped between the blade and the bearing
and it is 'bye bye guide', I conjecture.

Still it is cool to see how they addressed the 'floppy
blade' issue.

With a holddown/guide, eh?

Yup. The guide bearings damp the wobbly oscillation
of the end of the blade. The foot shown would have
been quite inadequate to resist the 'workpiece hop'
I saw, sans blade guides.

Now, I wonder how to make a large jigsaw that uses regular
hack saw blades to do many of the things that the Blade-
Runner is shown doing, without tearing up a blade guide
in the process.

Use a wire instead of a guide. Tension the upper end like a coping
saw or scrollsaw.

Food for thought.

--Winston-- Loves his bandsaw but it won't cut steel and
decent blades are spendy!

Buy a new tool!
http://www.harborfreight.com/portabl...saw-47840.html
$99, on sale for $79, less a 20% coupon you might have = $64 plus $20
for a trio of bimetal blades.

Neat looking saw. Not 'general purpose' enough without
a table, though.

--Winston

--
I see the Kitchen in splotchy black granite
based on a "Pink Floyd meets the 50's and 60's" theme.

Think 'Shoo-Wap Doo-Dah Ummagumma UbaTuba'.

wrote:

(...)

I had plans for a multi-purpose table unit that had interchangeable
plates, used a Skil saw, saber saw, one of those "drill press" jigs
and a router.

All mounted under the table? I wonder how they approached
the 'blade wobble' issue on the saber saw.

(...)

I find that my saber saw is about as much 'work' to use
as is a plain hack saw, for steel.
Nice cuts, though.


--Winston

Jim Wilkins wrote:
valid wrote
........
If you don't need maximum throat depth, bandsaws get much easier, as you
can bolt two wheels to a post, rather than trying to build a rigid C
frame (much like a jumbo shrimp or military intelligence.)

That's how I did it.
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...07508265721842

The wheels hang below the straight ladder frame, giving 13" of throat. The
drive wheel axle mounting block with tracking screws is partly visible at
the bottom. The sliding wheel is mounted in a U shaped frame that fits
loosely within the side rails. Bolts through the frame take up the slack and
adjust tracking. I had planned to mill down the axle mounting blocks as
needed to remove twist but the welding came out good enough.

Beauty!

--Winston

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:11:19 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 06:43:59 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

I tried it and found that I couldn't hold the workpiece
down against the face of the surface for some reason.

You need a workpiece holddown. Howzbout a rubber inline skate wheel
on a stick, held from above, parallel with the blade direction?

Nuh uh. Read on. De blade be floppy and binds in de cut.

Picky bastid, aintcha?


(...)

Prolly holddown. The machine tends to vibrate and it's passed off into
the workpiece, plus the effects of the blade cutting.

Floppy blade. The workpiece resisted all attempts to
seat on the table, despite a considerable amount of
clamping pressure provided by yours truly.

Buy better blades?


This morning, a commercial on teevee revealed the cause.
Our friends at Rockwell discovered that the
blade was flopping laterally and have included an upper
guide to minimize that. Apparently it works
well enough, if very slowly, even in wood.

https://www.rockwelltools.com/US/BladeRunner_Saw-P1564.aspx?utm_source=BRTV&utm_medium=TV

Oh, GAWD, I'm glad I dumped my DISH contract! I watched one of the
little videos they had and instantly remembered.

"It came back to me like the hot kiss on the end of a wet fist."
Thank you Firesign Theatre

Betty Jo Bialosky was a real knockout!


After watching the demos, I'm convinced that this approach
won't work for me because of the swarf that will jam
in the upper blade guide, causing damage to it in short
order.

Will a dust/swarf-collecting vac help?

Some. Not enough, though.
One chip trapped between the blade and the bearing
and it is 'bye bye guide', I conjecture.

Prolly so.


Still it is cool to see how they addressed the 'floppy
blade' issue.

With a holddown/guide, eh?

Yup. The guide bearings damp the wobbly oscillation
of the end of the blade. The foot shown would have
been quite inadequate to resist the 'workpiece hop'
I saw, sans blade guides.

Now, I wonder how to make a large jigsaw that uses regular
hack saw blades to do many of the things that the Blade-
Runner is shown doing, without tearing up a blade guide
in the process.

Use a wire instead of a guide. Tension the upper end like a coping
saw or scrollsaw.

Food for thought.

--Winston-- Loves his bandsaw but it won't cut steel and
decent blades are spendy!

Buy a new tool!
http://www.harborfreight.com/portabl...saw-47840.html
$99, on sale for $79, less a 20% coupon you might have = $64 plus $20
for a trio of bimetal blades.

Neat looking saw. Not 'general purpose' enough without
a table, though.

Wimp! Pop off two secondary handle mounting screws, mount a table you
fab up which sits in the vise when necessary. This is opportunity
knocking, Sir Winston!

--
Win first, Fight later.

--martial principle of the Samurai

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:11:19 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

Picky bastid, aintcha?

Yup.

Buy better blades?

Nup. These were top-o-the-line Bosch blades in a
nice Bosch saber saw.

(...)

Neat looking saw. Not 'general purpose' enough without
a table, though.

Wimp! Pop off two secondary handle mounting screws, mount a table you
fab up which sits in the vise when necessary. This is opportunity
knocking, Sir Winston!

Heck I'd rather put a worm transmission on my existing saw
then build a 12/18/24 TPI version of this delicious thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0I_p...eature=related

--Winston

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 22:33:35 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 21:18:13 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

Nup. These were top-o-the-line Bosch blades in a
nice Bosch saber saw.

That surprises the heck out of me.

Me too, since the same blade cuts through steel
really nicely when the workpiece is clamped in
a bench vise and the saw is guided by hand.

Are you absolutely sure it's not caused by vibration of the workpiece?
If the piece is hopping, it could -induce- a waggle, oui?

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 22:33:35 -0700,
wrote:

(...) -- Indicates snippage, *not* three nostrils.

Me too, since the same blade cuts through steel
really nicely when the workpiece is clamped in
a bench vise and the saw is guided by hand.

Are you absolutely sure it's not caused by vibration of the workpiece?
If the piece is hopping, it could -induce- a waggle, oui?

I haven't seen any high speed video, but you are probably right.

Probably the first stroke of the blade goes well
then *any* contact of the blade to the workpiece on the return
stroke induces movement in the handheld workpiece, which causes
the largely undamped blade to 'violin', side to side.

Once this lateral oscillation of the blade starts, cutting just
about ceases as the workpiece gets trapped by the displacement
caused by the resonant standing wave in the blade. (It doesn't
really matter if it is fundamental or harmonic resonance.
A dynamically floppy blade is effectively wider than the kerf
at most points along it's length.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n1d1...eature=related

At that point, the workpiece spends much of it's time riding
the blade.

So the guides dampen the oscillation of the blade at it's
resonant frequency. The blade remains 'straight enough'
laterally and therefore does not trap the workpiece.

The blade probably still oscillates laterally when it cuts a
clamped workpiece and the saw is hand held. It does not
approach resonance because the base pressure of the saw
against the clamping device (vise, workbench)
prevents the workpiece relative movement that causes blade
lateral resonance.

A first - order test would be to clamp a workpiece in a vise
and attempt to cut it with much less base force than usual.
I suspect that the lowered mass coupling would cause the
blade to enter resonance at some FPM and pressure settings,
resulting in a bouncy ride for the user. BTDT
(Queue SFX: "trombone gobble")

That is my story and I'm sticking to it.

My take-away:
What if you made a 'virtual' top guide, immune to swarf?
Several displacement sensors and electromagnets dynamically
phase - cancel lateral acceleration of the blade,
straightening it in real time.

--Winston

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:14:50 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 22:33:35 -0700,
wrote:

(...) -- Indicates snippage, *not* three nostrils.

Me too, since the same blade cuts through steel
really nicely when the workpiece is clamped in
a bench vise and the saw is guided by hand.

Are you absolutely sure it's not caused by vibration of the workpiece?
If the piece is hopping, it could -induce- a waggle, oui?

I haven't seen any high speed video, but you are probably right.

Probably the first stroke of the blade goes well
then *any* contact of the blade to the workpiece on the return
stroke induces movement in the handheld workpiece, which causes
the largely undamped blade to 'violin', side to side.

Question: Why would it be so bad upside down when it isn't right-side
up? Could it be the addition of the table thickness? Pull the shoe
and mount the beast to the new, thin table. Let me know how it works.


Once this lateral oscillation of the blade starts, cutting just
about ceases as the workpiece gets trapped by the displacement
caused by the resonant standing wave in the blade. (It doesn't
really matter if it is fundamental or harmonic resonance.
A dynamically floppy blade is effectively wider than the kerf
at most points along it's length.)

Ayup. I've felt that with the recip saw many times. The 12" blades
are the worst.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n1d1...eature=related

clap, clap, clap OOH, fun, Daddy!


At that point, the workpiece spends much of it's time riding
the blade.

So the guides dampen the oscillation of the blade at it's
resonant frequency. The blade remains 'straight enough'
laterally and therefore does not trap the workpiece.

The blade probably still oscillates laterally when it cuts a
clamped workpiece and the saw is hand held. It does not
approach resonance because the base pressure of the saw
against the clamping device (vise, workbench)
prevents the workpiece relative movement that causes blade
lateral resonance.

Drill the tip of the blade, run a guitar wire through it, and support
it at the top. It should end your troubles. Use the beaded end on top
so you can drop a holey piece on it for further cutting.


A first - order test would be to clamp a workpiece in a vise
and attempt to cut it with much less base force than usual.

"base force"? Or run a ball bearing holddown right next to the blade,
springloaded at the top. But if it's a positional resonance, that
prolly wouldn't help. The original shoe is probably tuned to the zero
point of some wave already, probably at midspeed on a variable.


I suspect that the lowered mass coupling would cause the
blade to enter resonance at some FPM and pressure settings,
resulting in a bouncy ride for the user. BTDT
(Queue SFX: "trombone gobble")

That is my story and I'm sticking to it.

All the way to the San Josie Sanitarium, eh?


My take-away:
What if you made a 'virtual' top guide, immune to swarf?
Several displacement sensors and electromagnets dynamically
phase - cancel lateral acceleration of the blade,
straightening it in real time.

Quick, cheap, and easy. You'll have it done in half an hour, wot?
Hurry, the patent office closes at 4 on Fridays.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:14:50 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 22:33:35 -0700,
wrote:

[A lot about this not working due to blade vibration.]

I don't know what's going on he maybe 15 years ago I mounted my sabre
saw upside down under a table and it works fine. Yeah, I have to be
careful about it grabbing, but it's not a big deal to hold the work
tight against the table.

The saw & blade are nothing special: a 30 year old Craftsman saw and a
no-name blade.

Just another case of mileages varying, I guess.

Bob

On Sep 29, 9:43*am, Winston wrote:
Here, a few months ago, I wondered aloud what would
happen if I clamped my saber saw underneath a work
surface so that I could free up my hands to guide
the workpiece. *This would allow me, for example to
do miter and notch cuts in steel quickly and accurately.

I tried it and found that I couldn't hold the workpiece
down against the face of the surface for some reason.
I jumped to the conclusion that I needed a larger
'orbital' blade clearance setting but even with that
set for maximum 'return clearance' the work still
vibrated uncontrollably. *I wondered what could be the
cause but vectored off to do other chores instead of
engaging in any analysis.

This morning, a commercial on teevee revealed the cause.
Our friends at Rockwell discovered that the
blade was flopping laterally and have included an upper
guide to minimize that. *Apparently it works
well enough, if very slowly, even in wood.

https://www.rockwelltools.com/US/BladeRunner_Saw-P1564.aspx?utm_sourc...

After watching the demos, I'm convinced that this approach
won't work for me because of the swarf that will jam
in the upper blade guide, causing damage to it in short
order.

Still it is cool to see how they addressed the 'floppy
blade' issue.

Now, I wonder how to make a large jigsaw that uses regular
hack saw blades to do many of the things that the Blade-
Runner is shown doing, without tearing up a blade guide
in the process.

--Winston -- Loves his bandsaw but it won't cut steel and
* * * * * * * *decent blades are spendy!

You don't need a guide, you need a damper.

2 rubber wheels sprung to close on the blade near the top mounted on
an arm that can move back and forth a bit, maybe have the whole arm
swing up and out of the way if you are working on pieces with a hole
that need to be placed down over the blade.


Dave

Bob Engelhardt wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:14:50 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 22:33:35 -0700,
wrote:

[A lot about this not working due to blade vibration.]

I don't know what's going on he maybe 15 years ago I mounted my sabre
saw upside down under a table and it works fine. Yeah, I have to be
careful about it grabbing, but it's not a big deal to hold the work
tight against the table.

The saw & blade are nothing special: a 30 year old Craftsman saw and a
no-name blade.

Just another case of mileages varying, I guess.

It's been only a couple years since I tried it.
I can't even remember if I was trying to cut
aluminum or steel at the time.

MMDV

--Winston

Winston writes:

Here, a few months ago, I wondered aloud what would
happen if I clamped my saber saw underneath a work
surface so that I could free up my hands to guide
the workpiece. This would allow me, for example to
do miter and notch cuts in steel quickly and accurately.

I tried it and found that I couldn't hold the workpiece
down against the face of the surface for some reason.
I jumped to the conclusion that I needed a larger
'orbital' blade clearance setting but even with that
set for maximum 'return clearance' the work still
vibrated uncontrollably.

I dunno about the lateral blade flop you mention. Maybe you're using
long blades?

When I had a bunch of rosettes [1] to cut out of sheet metal (I
forget the ga., but way less than 16 ga. 24 ga. maybe?) I mounted my
sabre saw shoe-up under a hobby-grade router table. Made a 16
ga. plug for the round router-bit opening with a slot to allow the
blade to pass through.

Then made an angle-iron bridge across the table to which I attached a
thing very like a sewing machine presser foot. The presser foot could
be adjusted for work thickness so's to make a very light friction fit
when the stock slid under it.

The vibration was a bit hard on the fingers but I cut out the rosettes
without readjusting the foot more than once or twice.


[1] Rosettes at the center of the roses he

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/img/rose-3.gif

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:14:50 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

Question: Why would it be so bad upside down when it isn't right-side
up? Could it be the addition of the table thickness? Pull the shoe
and mount the beast to the new, thin table. Let me know how it works.

Read on. I agree with you that relative movement between
the workpiece and saw blade appears to prompt lateral
oscillation of the blade and results in grabbing.

With 'His Stockiness' holding the saw conventionally, there
does not appear to be enough relative movement to cause
much oscillation, so very little grabbing results.

A foot alone couldn't provide the necessary force and still
allow the user to easily direct the cut.

(...)

Ayup. I've felt that with the recip saw many times. The 12" blades
are the worst.

And a Sawzall into a steel bolt clamped in a vise can
really teach you some dance moves, if you attempt to
use an unworn part of the blade.

(...)

Drill the tip of the blade, run a guitar wire through it, and support
it at the top. It should end your troubles. Use the beaded end on top
so you can drop a holey piece on it for further cutting.

It just might, with enough vertical pressure.

A first - order test would be to clamp a workpiece in a vise
and attempt to cut it with much less base force than usual.

"base force"? Or run a ball bearing holddown right next to the blade,
springloaded at the top.

That is the BladeRunner approach except for the spring loading.
It does appear to work OK. It ain't fast, even in wood, though.

(...)

That is my story and I'm sticking to it.

All the way to the San Josie Sanitarium, eh?

More highly paid men than you have tried that one, Larry!
They had to answer several Embarrassing Questions.

My take-away:
What if you made a 'virtual' top guide, immune to swarf?
Several displacement sensors and electromagnets dynamically
phase - cancel lateral acceleration of the blade,
straightening it in real time.

Quick, cheap, and easy. You'll have it done in half an hour, wot?
Hurry, the patent office closes at 4 on Fridays.

I Can Over - Complicate Anything!

-- His Stockiness

Dave__67 wrote:

(...)

You don't need a guide, you need a damper.

2 rubber wheels sprung to close on the blade near the top mounted on
an arm that can move back and forth a bit, maybe have the whole arm
swing up and out of the way if you are working on pieces with a hole
that need to be placed down over the blade.

Yup. That is very similar to the BladeRunner
approach and it does seem to work well enough.
For a while.

--Winston

Mike Spencer wrote:
writes:

(...)

I dunno about the lateral blade flop you mention. Maybe you're using
long blades?

Nup. ~3" with lots of TPI.

(...)

The vibration was a bit hard on the fingers but I cut out the rosettes
without readjusting the foot more than once or twice.

I was thinking about notching say, 1/2" square tube.
Kinda doubt the presser foot would stand up to that.

[1] Rosettes at the center of the roses he

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/img/rose-3.gif

Those are right pretty. Repousse?


--Winston

In article ,
Winston wrote:

Here, a few months ago, I wondered aloud what would
happen if I clamped my saber saw underneath a work
surface so that I could free up my hands to guide
the workpiece. This would allow me, for example to
do miter and notch cuts in steel quickly and accurately.

I tried it and found that I couldn't hold the workpiece
down against the face of the surface for some reason.
I jumped to the conclusion that I needed a larger
'orbital' blade clearance setting but even with that
set for maximum 'return clearance' the work still
vibrated uncontrollably. I wondered what could be the
cause but vectored off to do other chores instead of
engaging in any analysis.

This morning, a commercial on teevee revealed the cause.
Our friends at Rockwell discovered that the
blade was flopping laterally and have included an upper
guide to minimize that. Apparently it works
well enough, if very slowly, even in wood.

https://www.rockwelltools.com/US/Bla..._source=BRTV&u
tm_medium=TV

After watching the demos, I'm convinced that this approach
won't work for me because of the swarf that will jam
in the upper blade guide, causing damage to it in short
order.

Still it is cool to see how they addressed the 'floppy
blade' issue.

Now, I wonder how to make a large jigsaw that uses regular
hack saw blades to do many of the things that the Blade-
Runner is shown doing, without tearing up a blade guide
in the process.

I looked at the product reviews at Amazon.com. These saws are very
light (17#), and just are not made that well, so it's hard to assess the
idea.

Joe Gwinn

Winston writes:

I was thinking about notching say, 1/2" square tube.
Kinda doubt the presser foot would stand up to that.

Dunno. Make the bridge out of 1" hollow square, the foot out of 1-1/2"x1/4",
attach with a 3/8" bolt?

Mike Spencer wrote:
[1] Rosettes at the center of the roses he

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/img/rose-3.gif

Those are right pretty.

Thank you.

Repousse?

--Winston

Only the rosettes at the center are repouse. The main petals a 3/16"
plate, made from the discs cut from the surrounding plate. Textured
with a 1/4"-diameter fuller die on a 25# power hammer, then shaped up
with a hand hammer. The fullering spreads them so together they're
bigger than the hole they were cut out of.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:51:19 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:14:50 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

Question: Why would it be so bad upside down when it isn't right-side
up? Could it be the addition of the table thickness? Pull the shoe
and mount the beast to the new, thin table. Let me know how it works.

Read on. I agree with you that relative movement between
the workpiece and saw blade appears to prompt lateral
oscillation of the blade and results in grabbing.

Vertical or lateral? You didn't specify, so I took it to mean
vertical separation between the table and workpiece. Wait a minute,
you just said "workpiece and blade". How is that happening? If it's
sliding up against the side of the blade, it will begin oscillation.
Gitfiddle wire'll fix 'er right up, overcoming that tendency.


With 'His Stockiness' holding the saw conventionally, there
does not appear to be enough relative movement to cause
much oscillation, so very little grabbing results.

How thick was the additional table when you tried it upside down?
I don't think you addressed that.


A foot alone couldn't provide the necessary force and still
allow the user to easily direct the cut.

(...)

Ayup. I've felt that with the recip saw many times. The 12" blades
are the worst.

And a Sawzall into a steel bolt clamped in a vise can
really teach you some dance moves, if you attempt to
use an unworn part of the blade.

Try cutting a sink out and find a subterranean tubafore lurking a
couple inches below the substrate. Instant pogo stick, all the way to
the top of the counter. sigh


(...)

Drill the tip of the blade, run a guitar wire through it, and support
it at the top. It should end your troubles. Use the beaded end on top
so you can drop a holey piece on it for further cutting.

It just might, with enough vertical pressure.

I doubt it would take more than a dozen pounds. Give 'er a try.


A first - order test would be to clamp a workpiece in a vise
and attempt to cut it with much less base force than usual.

"base force"? Or run a ball bearing holddown right next to the blade,
springloaded at the top.

That is the BladeRunner approach except for the spring loading.
It does appear to work OK. It ain't fast, even in wood, though.

No. Bandsaws are light years ahead for speed in wood/metal cutting.


(...)

That is my story and I'm sticking to it.

All the way to the San Josie Sanitarium, eh?

More highly paid men than you have tried that one, Larry!
They had to answer several Embarrassing Questions.

Oh! The Somesheimers Question, eh?


My take-away:
What if you made a 'virtual' top guide, immune to swarf?
Several displacement sensors and electromagnets dynamically
phase - cancel lateral acceleration of the blade,
straightening it in real time.

Quick, cheap, and easy. You'll have it done in half an hour, wot?
Hurry, the patent office closes at 4 on Fridays.

I Can Over - Complicate Anything!

Talk to Bill over on the Wreck. He's one up on ya.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Mike Spencer wrote:
writes:

I was thinking about notching say, 1/2" square tube.
Kinda doubt the presser foot would stand up to that.

Dunno. Make the bridge out of 1" hollow square, the foot out of 1-1/2"x1/4",
attach with a 3/8" bolt?

Yeahbut. We still have to be able to move the workpiece under the
foot and the foot won't address lateral blade resonance, by itself.
The blade guides in the BladeRunner look like a good
approach but I am dubious about their longevity when cutting
steel. Perhaps I am in error there. That would be a Good Thing.

(...)

Only the rosettes at the center are repouse. The main petals a 3/16"
plate, made from the discs cut from the surrounding plate. Textured
with a 1/4"-diameter fuller die on a 25# power hammer, then shaped up
with a hand hammer. The fullering spreads them so together they're
bigger than the hole they were cut out of.

Very clever. Also some very neat stuff in your Gallery:
http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/gallery.html

I think it would be ultra kewl to make a garden gate
with one of Lemony Snicket's deliciously creepy
Evil Eyes featured near the top.

--Winston

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

(...)

I looked at the product reviews at Amazon.com. These saws are very
light (17#), and just are not made that well, so it's hard to assess the
idea.

I've seen a YouTube review of the tool that made it look
slow, and difficult to use. The HomeTime commercial must
have had several 'takes' to iron out the hiccups.

--Winston

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 13:51:19 -0700,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:14:50 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

Question: Why would it be so bad upside down when it isn't right-side
up? Could it be the addition of the table thickness? Pull the shoe
and mount the beast to the new, thin table. Let me know how it works.

Read on. I agree with you that relative movement between
the workpiece and saw blade appears to prompt lateral
oscillation of the blade and results in grabbing.

Vertical or lateral? You didn't specify, so I took it to mean
vertical separation between the table and workpiece.

Lateral blade movement. It waggles in the kerf and
can appear to be a much wider blade than it actually is.
Bingo, we have a bind. One can also induce lateral blade
movement via insufficient base pressure against the
workpiece. (excessive vertical separation).

Wait a minute,
you just said "workpiece and blade". How is that happening? If it's
sliding up against the side of the blade, it will begin oscillation.

Yup. The end of the blade is totally unconstrained so it'll
break into oscillation if it taps itself against the inside
of the workpiece kerf once or a few times.

Gitfiddle wire'll fix 'er right up, overcoming that tendency.

If I were gonna do that, I'd figure out how to power a
hacksaw blade instead. Can't beat that for cheap and easy to
locate.
http://treadleit.info/sites/default/files/mainsite/OLDfiles/Scrollsaw-MillersFall-1886A.jpg
They will sell like hotcakes!

With 'His Stockiness' holding the saw conventionally, there
does not appear to be enough relative movement to cause
much oscillation, so very little grabbing results.

How thick was the additional table when you tried it upside down?
I don't think you addressed that.

I vaguely recall it was 3/4" ply clamped in a Workmate.

A foot alone couldn't provide the necessary force and still
allow the user to easily direct the cut.

(...)

Ayup. I've felt that with the recip saw many times. The 12" blades
are the worst.

And a Sawzall into a steel bolt clamped in a vise can
really teach you some dance moves, if you attempt to
use an unworn part of the blade.

Try cutting a sink out and find a subterranean tubafore lurking a
couple inches below the substrate. Instant pogo stick, all the way to
the top of the counter.sigh

Frustrating, that.

(...)

Drill the tip of the blade, run a guitar wire through it, and support
it at the top. It should end your troubles. Use the beaded end on top
so you can drop a holey piece on it for further cutting.

It just might, with enough vertical pressure.

I doubt it would take more than a dozen pounds. Give 'er a try.

Much cheaper and faster to put a transmission on my existing
band saw. I *know* that'll work.

A first - order test would be to clamp a workpiece in a vise
and attempt to cut it with much less base force than usual.

"base force"? Or run a ball bearing holddown right next to the blade,
springloaded at the top.

That is the BladeRunner approach except for the spring loading.
It does appear to work OK. It ain't fast, even in wood, though.

No. Bandsaws are light years ahead for speed in wood/metal cutting.

No. I agree with you, too.

(...)

That is my story and I'm sticking to it.

All the way to the San Josie Sanitarium, eh?

More highly paid men than you have tried that one, Larry!
They had to answer several Embarrassing Questions.

Oh! The Somesheimers Question, eh?

Exactly. Not all. Some.

My take-away:
What if you made a 'virtual' top guide, immune to swarf?
Several displacement sensors and electromagnets dynamically
phase - cancel lateral acceleration of the blade,
straightening it in real time.

Quick, cheap, and easy. You'll have it done in half an hour, wot?
Hurry, the patent office closes at 4 on Fridays.

I Can Over - Complicate Anything!

Talk to Bill over on the Wreck. He's one up on ya.

There are *two* of us? OMG.

--Winston

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 19:13:49 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Lateral blade movement. It waggles in the kerf and
can appear to be a much wider blade than it actually is.
Bingo, we have a bind. One can also induce lateral blade
movement via insufficient base pressure against the
workpiece. (excessive vertical separation).


Wait a minute,
you just said "workpiece and blade". How is that happening? If it's
sliding up against the side of the blade, it will begin oscillation.

Yup. The end of the blade is totally unconstrained so it'll
break into oscillation if it taps itself against the inside
of the workpiece kerf once or a few times.

It should be kept in contact with the uncut portion of the workpiece.
That would keep it centered.


Gitfiddle wire'll fix 'er right up, overcoming that tendency.

If I were gonna do that, I'd figure out how to power a
hacksaw blade instead. Can't beat that for cheap and easy to
locate.
http://treadleit.info/sites/default/files/mainsite/OLDfiles/Scrollsaw-MillersFall-1886A.jpg
They will sell like hotcakes!

Them's electricalified nowadays and they call 'em "scrollsaws".


With 'His Stockiness' holding the saw conventionally, there
does not appear to be enough relative movement to cause
much oscillation, so very little grabbing results.

How thick was the additional table when you tried it upside down?
I don't think you addressed that.

I vaguely recall it was 3/4" ply clamped in a Workmate.

That would probably be the problem. You lost a whole lot of
reinforcement by extending the cut portion to the outer end of the
blade.


(...)

Drill the tip of the blade, run a guitar wire through it, and support
it at the top. It should end your troubles. Use the beaded end on top
so you can drop a holey piece on it for further cutting.

It just might, with enough vertical pressure.

I doubt it would take more than a dozen pounds. Give 'er a try.

Much cheaper and faster to put a transmission on my existing
band saw. I *know* that'll work.

True. An extra set of external pulleys would be easier.
Then watch the tires disintegrate from the swarf.



More highly paid men than you have tried that one, Larry!
They had to answer several Embarrassing Questions.

Oh! The Somesheimers Question, eh?

Exactly. Not all. Some.

When are visiting hours?


I Can Over - Complicate Anything!

Talk to Bill over on the Wreck. He's one up on ya.

There are *two* of us? OMG.

Scary, isn't it?


This just in...
--snip--
HELL EXPLAINED

The following is an actual question given on a University of Arizona
chemistry mid term, and an actual answer turned in by a student.

The answer by one student was so 'profound' that the professor shared
it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now
have the pleasure of enjoying it as well :

Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic
(absorbs heat)?



Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law
(gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some
variant.



One student, however, wrote the following:



First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So
we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the
rate at which they are leaving, which is unlikely.. I think that we
can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave.
Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering
Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world
today.

Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their
religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these
religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we
can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as
they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase
exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in
Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and
pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand
proportionately as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which
souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will
increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls
in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell
freezes over. So which is it?


If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman
year that, 'It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you,'
and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then
number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic
and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that
since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any
more souls and is therefore, extinct...... ...leaving only Heaven,
thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why,
last night, Teresa kept shouting 'Oh my God.'



THIS STUDENT RECEIVED AN A+
--snip--

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 19:13:49 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

It should be kept in contact with the uncut portion of the workpiece.
That would keep it centered.

The unconstrained tip of the blade is in the air
above the workpiece most of the time.
That is the bit that waggles laterally, causing
binding inside the kerf.

"Whole thing connected. Take a look!"

Gitfiddle wire'll fix 'er right up, overcoming that tendency.

If I were gonna do that, I'd figure out how to power a
hacksaw blade instead. Can't beat that for cheap and easy to
locate.
http://treadleit.info/sites/default/files/mainsite/OLDfiles/Scrollsaw-MillersFall-1886A.jpg
They will sell like hotcakes!

Them's electricalified nowadays and they call 'em "scrollsaws".

I want a *big* scroll saw good for cutting up scrap 4 x 6's
for firewood or slicing slots in tool steel or cutting
out patterns in Masonite or sawing MOT laminations,
with a minimum floorspace footprint.
Such a thing does not appear to be for sale.

Nearest I see is a $$$ band saw.
Donations gratefully accepted.

With 'His Stockiness' holding the saw conventionally, there
does not appear to be enough relative movement to cause
much oscillation, so very little grabbing results.

How thick was the additional table when you tried it upside down?
I don't think you addressed that.

I vaguely recall it was 3/4" ply clamped in a Workmate.

That would probably be the problem. You lost a whole lot of
reinforcement by extending the cut portion to the outer end of the
blade.

I also tried it just by clamping the base of the
inverted saber saw in the Workmate. Same binding.
Tis blade waggle, methinks.

Drill the tip of the blade, run a guitar wire through it, and support
it at the top. It should end your troubles. Use the beaded end on top
so you can drop a holey piece on it for further cutting.

It just might, with enough vertical pressure.

I doubt it would take more than a dozen pounds. Give 'er a try.

Much cheaper and faster to put a transmission on my existing
band saw. I *know* that'll work.

True. An extra set of external pulleys would be easier.
Then watch the tires disintegrate from the swarf.

Or the blade squeals itself to an early death.
I hear tell. Rumor, you know.

More highly paid men than you have tried that one, Larry!
They had to answer several Embarrassing Questions.

Oh! The Somesheimers Question, eh?

Exactly. Not all. Some.

When are visiting hours?

By now, my former boss's boss and his tame 'doctor'
should be in here somewhe http://goo.gl/qmEpM

(The lab manager skated because he was just involved
in nickel - and - dime threats, thefts, stalking,
vandalism, sabotage. Just kid stuff.)
See, my boss's boss had to contract with a guy in
Florida to do both the preliminary and final diagnoses.
That's wire fraud and attempted murder, both across
state lines, so we are talking about Federal
incarceration for my boss's boss and his tame
'doctor' (in place to do the local diagnosis).

The guy from Florida conspired in the
wire fraud and the attempted murder,
so that is a federal crime too. He should be in he
http://goo.gl/j8zOr

Please give them my regards.
I'd visit but I have to wash my hair.

The president of the company had 'plausible
deniability' so he probably skated as well.
Hold on, let me check. Yup. He's still
at Headquarters.

Hey, you asked.

I Can Over - Complicate Anything!

Talk to Bill over on the Wreck. He's one up on ya.

There are *two* of us? OMG.

Scary, isn't it?

Whoa man. You said it.

--Winston

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:00:08 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 19:13:49 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

It should be kept in contact with the uncut portion of the workpiece.
That would keep it centered.

The unconstrained tip of the blade is in the air
above the workpiece most of the time.
That is the bit that waggles laterally, causing
binding inside the kerf.

"Whole thing connected. Take a look!"

sigh


Gitfiddle wire'll fix 'er right up, overcoming that tendency.

If I were gonna do that, I'd figure out how to power a
hacksaw blade instead. Can't beat that for cheap and easy to
locate.
http://treadleit.info/sites/default/files/mainsite/OLDfiles/Scrollsaw-MillersFall-1886A.jpg
They will sell like hotcakes!

Them's electricalified nowadays and they call 'em "scrollsaws".

I want a *big* scroll saw good for cutting up scrap 4 x 6's
for firewood or slicing slots in tool steel or cutting
out patterns in Masonite or sawing MOT laminations,
with a minimum floorspace footprint.
Such a thing does not appear to be for sale.

So build a table for your recip saw, put a 12" blade on 'er, and run a
wire up to hold the blade erect and reduce or eliminate waves.
End Erectile Dysfunction Now with new VIAGWIRE!


Nearest I see is a $$$ band saw.
Donations gratefully accepted.

I donate one "Hear, Hear!"


With 'His Stockiness' holding the saw conventionally, there
does not appear to be enough relative movement to cause
much oscillation, so very little grabbing results.

How thick was the additional table when you tried it upside down?
I don't think you addressed that.

I vaguely recall it was 3/4" ply clamped in a Workmate.

That would probably be the problem. You lost a whole lot of
reinforcement by extending the cut portion to the outer end of the
blade.

I also tried it just by clamping the base of the
inverted saber saw in the Workmate. Same binding.
Tis blade waggle, methinks.

Yabbut... Oh, never mind.


Drill the tip of the blade, run a guitar wire through it, and support
it at the top. It should end your troubles. Use the beaded end on top
so you can drop a holey piece on it for further cutting.

It just might, with enough vertical pressure.

I doubt it would take more than a dozen pounds. Give 'er a try.

Much cheaper and faster to put a transmission on my existing
band saw. I *know* that'll work.

True. An extra set of external pulleys would be easier.
Then watch the tires disintegrate from the swarf.

Or the blade squeals itself to an early death.
I hear tell. Rumor, you know.

Oh, suuuuuuure.


More highly paid men than you have tried that one, Larry!
They had to answer several Embarrassing Questions.

Oh! The Somesheimers Question, eh?

Exactly. Not all. Some.

When are visiting hours?

By now, my former boss's boss and his tame 'doctor'
should be in here somewhe http://goo.gl/qmEpM

One can only hope!


(The lab manager skated because he was just involved
in nickel - and - dime threats, thefts, stalking,
vandalism, sabotage. Just kid stuff.)
See, my boss's boss had to contract with a guy in
Florida to do both the preliminary and final diagnoses.
That's wire fraud and attempted murder, both across
state lines, so we are talking about Federal
incarceration for my boss's boss and his tame
'doctor' (in place to do the local diagnosis).

The guy from Florida conspired in the
wire fraud and the attempted murder,
so that is a federal crime too. He should be in he
http://goo.gl/j8zOr

Nice folks you work with, son. Sheesh!


Please give them my regards.
I'd visit but I have to wash my hair.

Which one? (NO visuals, please.)


The president of the company had 'plausible
deniability' so he probably skated as well.
Hold on, let me check. Yup. He's still
at Headquarters.

Hey, you asked.

Nuh-uh! I asked "if", not "who/what/when/where/how", sir.


I Can Over - Complicate Anything!

Talk to Bill over on the Wreck. He's one up on ya.

There are *two* of us? OMG.

Scary, isn't it?

Whoa man. You said it.

So invent something siliconny, then use your newfound fortune on a
bandsaur.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:00:08 -0700,
wrote:


(...)

sigh

What?

(...)

So build a table for your recip saw, put a 12" blade on 'er, and run a
wire up to hold the blade erect and reduce or eliminate waves.
End Erectile Dysfunction Now with new VIAGWIRE!

That'd just shift the resonant point.
It'd be more effective to just put a transmission on
my existing band saw. ('There an echo in here?)


Nearest I see is a $$$ band saw.
Donations gratefully accepted.

I donate one "Hear, Hear!"

That and five bucks gets me a Latte!

(Bladocide)

Oh, suuuuuuure.

Uh oh. Busted.

(...)

Nice folks you work with, son. Sheesh!

I disliked working with criminals but
they gave me a desk on the top floor
of the headquarters building and paid
overtime!

WooHoo!

(...)

Hey, you asked.

Nuh-uh! I asked "if", not "who/what/when/where/how", sir.

You asked 'when'.
You got 'when' and a novel.
A bargain for sure.

(...)

So invent something siliconny, then use your newfound fortune on a
bandsaur.

What's that, an old groupie?

--Winston -- Flea market tomorrow at Oh Dark Hundred.
Me for bed. Nighty night, y'all.

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 22:14:37 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:00:08 -0700,
wrote:


(...)

sigh

What?

We're on 2 different frequencies.


(...)

So build a table for your recip saw, put a 12" blade on 'er, and run a
wire up to hold the blade erect and reduce or eliminate waves.
End Erectile Dysfunction Now with new VIAGWIRE!

That'd just shift the resonant point.
It'd be more effective to just put a transmission on
my existing band saw. ('There an echo in here?)

Higher resonant freq, much lower wave intensity, and compliant
behavior, I'd wager.


Nearest I see is a $$$ band saw.
Donations gratefully accepted.

I donate one "Hear, Hear!"

That and five bucks gets me a Latte!

Yabbut, I was the first to donate. It'll get 'em started.
On your donation site, put down that SallySue donated $1,450 and your
goal is $75,999 before Christmas and It's For The Children. You'll be
rich. A "Will Work for Tools" sign couldn't hurt, either.


(Bladocide)

Splain? Not googlable.


Oh, suuuuuuure.

Uh oh. Busted.

Toldjaso.

(...)

Nice folks you work with, son. Sheesh!

I disliked working with criminals but
they gave me a desk on the top floor
of the headquarters building and paid
overtime!

Yeah, it sounds good until you realize where it could lead you.


WooHoo!

Where the hell did that yell come from? I'm hearing it from everyone
and their brother nowadays. What farking commercial? sigh


(...)

Hey, you asked.

Nuh-uh! I asked "if", not "who/what/when/where/how", sir.

You asked 'when'.
You got 'when' and a novel.
A bargain for sure.

Yes, considerably more than I paid for.


(...)

So invent something siliconny, then use your newfound fortune on a
bandsaur.

What's that, an old groupie?

Eh? Speak up, sonny. I can't hear you.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 22:14:37 -0700,
wrote:

(...)

We're on 2 different frequencies.

Roger that.

(...)

So build a table for your recip saw, put a 12" blade on 'er, and run a
wire up to hold the blade erect and reduce or eliminate waves.
End Erectile Dysfunction Now with new VIAGWIRE!

That'd just shift the resonant point.
It'd be more effective to just put a transmission on
my existing band saw. ('There an echo in here?)

Higher resonant freq, much lower wave intensity, and compliant
behavior, I'd wager.

I see that in the larger versions of that mechanical
metaphor, that the blade tension is set by a frame
and the sawing motion is coupled to that frame
from the chassis of the saw. The traditional jigsaw
combines blade clamping with motion coupling.
I think I would require much higher blade tension
than could be reasonably provided by an overhead
spring mechanism, ala traditional jigsaw, given the
cost in terms of sawing power.


(...)

(Bladocide)

Splain? Not googlable.

Causing the death of a perfectly innocent saw
blade by mis-application. Most often by greatly
exceeding the SPFM for a particular workpiece.


(...)

I disliked working with criminals but
they gave me a desk on the top floor
of the headquarters building and paid
overtime!

Yeah, it sounds good until you realize where it could lead you.

By then it is much too late!

That doesn't bother me nearly as much as the
pain suffered by the other hard-working, dedicated
folks who have been or are going to get pushed
through the same meat grinder.

WooHoo!

Where the hell did that yell come from? I'm hearing it from everyone
and their brother nowadays. What farking commercial?sigh

Humorous exclamation of clueless delight popularized
by cartoon character Homer Simpson.
This utterance entered the popular lexicon starting in
December 17, 1989 at 4:35 PM PST and fell out of favor
by that Tuesday the 19th, shortly before noon.

The expression continued to be used well into the 21st
century by a collection of balding, badly aging, ignorant,
fat white guys that are sure they don't look exactly like
Mssr. Simpson.

(...)

You asked 'when'.
You got 'when' and a novel.
A bargain for sure.

Yes, considerably more than I paid for.

YOUNG DOCTOR FRANKENSTIEN: "That goes without saying."

(...)

So invent something siliconny, then use your newfound fortune on a
bandsaur.

What's that, an old groupie?

Eh? Speak up, sonny. I can't hear you.

Whoa. Slipped off the frequency again!

--Winston

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 07:25:06 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Ecnerwal wrote:

(...)

Look up walking beam saw -

Interesting!
http://treadleit.info/sites/default/files/mainsite/OLDfiles/Scrollsaw-MillersFall-1886A.jpg

I guess they got replaced by the band saw.

...though building a bandsaw (or modifying the
one you have to cut steel - mostly a speed issue and the correct blades)

Still looking for a 'worm transmission' after all these years.

Ive got one, variable speed too. Bout 50 lbs, NOS but dusty. Whats it
worth to you?


...might be as easy, and would cut faster (but it's harder to pierce with.)
If you don't need maximum throat depth, bandsaws get much easier, as you
can bolt two wheels to a post, rather than trying to build a rigid C
frame (much like a jumbo shrimp or military intelligence.)

Heh!

Thanks!

--Winston

"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:17:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


"It came back to me like the hot kiss on the end of a wet fist."
Thank you Firesign Theatre

Betty Jo Bialosky was a real knockout!

And a Bozoette!!


"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:17:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


"It came back to me like the hot kiss on the end of a wet fist."
Thank you Firesign Theatre

Betty Jo Bialosky was a real knockout!

And a Bozoette!!

http://www.amazon.com/Firesign-Theatres-Box-Danger-Theatre/dp/B001EOQV5Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317522348&sr=8-1

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Winston writes:

I think it would be ultra kewl to make a garden gate
with one of Lemony Snicket's deliciously creepy
Evil Eyes featured near the top.

--Winston

Where on-line do I find a pic of those particular creepy Evil Eyes?
(I've heard of Lemony Snicket but never read/saw the books/flicks or
whatever.)

I did a jeweler's workbench once: exotic wood top, legs/ends embodied
creepy eyes in metal but more giggly than Evil -- sort of Kilroy Was
Here meets Henry Moore. I don't think I have a pic.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

Winston writes:

The unconstrained tip of the blade is in the air above the workpiece
most of the time. That is the bit that waggles laterally, causing
binding inside the kerf.

I recall encountering this with a carpenter's saw cutting wood. The
solution there is to slow the stroke rate. Is there any way you can
do that with your sabre saw? I suppose if you put it on a rheostat,
it would either fry or not run at all. Or not?

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 07:25:06 -0700, Winston
wrote:

Still looking for a 'worm transmission' after all these years.

Old roto-tiller -- a worm on the shaft from the engine drives a worm
wheel on the tine shaft.

Also an old automatic stoker from a coal furnace. I've rigged several
useful ad-hoceries from one of the latter. A 3450 RPM motor produces 6
RPM output.

Here's a use-once widget for rotating 3-1/2" thick-wall tube while
beveling and then butt-welding:

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/img/bearing.jpg

and here's the same furnace stoker gear box set up for reciprocating
motion:

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/shop/lap-anvil.html

And here's the same gear box driving the original stoker screw to
crush oversize forge coal:

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/temp/crusher.html

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada