On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus18699" wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus18699" wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest models
show
the
eye going right over my garage. g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.


A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches. The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.


Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it again
the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree right
across
the street. Mine was too dull for them. g


A water alarm, backup sump pump, and a generator would have helped.

Yes, they would. Now, calculate the lost interest over 25 years, which is
the time between events. d8-)


How bad was the damage?

Not as bad as I feared. The power tools dried out and ran just fine. I lost
maybe $150 worth of stuff.


If my house has 7 inches of water in basement, it would be very
expensive to repair and replace everything that was affected.

i

Most of what I have is up on shelves. I built heavy shelves on three of the
four walls as soon as I moved in, 33 years ago.


I have a lot of stuff low, carpet, kids toy HO scale railroad etc.

"Ignoramus18699" wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus18699" wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus18699" wrote in message
...
On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest models
show
the
eye going right over my garage. g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The
storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.


A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no
power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My
neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches. The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the
level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump
hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.


Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it again
the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost
power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree right
across
the street. Mine was too dull for them. g


A water alarm, backup sump pump, and a generator would have helped.

Yes, they would. Now, calculate the lost interest over 25 years, which is
the time between events. d8-)


How bad was the damage?

Not as bad as I feared. The power tools dried out and ran just fine. I
lost
maybe $150 worth of stuff.


If my house has 7 inches of water in basement, it would be very
expensive to repair and replace everything that was affected.

i

Most of what I have is up on shelves. I built heavy shelves on three of
the
four walls as soon as I moved in, 33 years ago.


I have a lot of stuff low, carpet, kids toy HO scale railroad etc.

Ok if you don't have a wet basement. This one was very wet when we moved in.
I've improved it a lot, but it's hard to beat 15 inches in two shots over
two weeks.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sep 2, 3:09*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Ignoramus18699" wrote in message

...





On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
....
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest models
show
the
eye going right over my garage. g I'm only 6 miles from salt water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane, when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches. The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it again the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree right across
the street. Mine was too dull for them. g

--
Ed Huntress





i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have power.

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Ignoramus18699" wrote in message

...





On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest models
show
the
eye going right over my garage. g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches. The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it again the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree right
across
the street. Mine was too dull for them. g

--
Ed Huntress





i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have power.

TMT

They can't even get to some of them yet in Vermont. Connecticut had to
essentially rebuild 4/5 of their power distribution system. Some folks got
off a lot worse than we did.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sep 3, 6:09*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...
On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:





"Ignoramus18699" wrote in message

m...

On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
....
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest models
show
the
eye going right over my garage. g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches. The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it again the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost power.

On Sep 3, 6:09*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...
On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:





"Ignoramus18699" wrote in message

m...

On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
....
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest models
show
the
eye going right over my garage. g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches. The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it again the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost power.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 6:09 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...
On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:





"Ignoramus18699" wrote in message

m...

On 2011-09-02, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest models
show
the
eye going right over my garage. g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The
storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no
power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My
neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches. The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the
level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump
hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it again
the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost
power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree right
across
the street. Mine was too dull for them. g

--
Ed Huntress

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have power.

TMT

They can't even get to some of them yet in Vermont. Connecticut had to
essentially rebuild 4/5 of their power distribution system. Some folks got
off a lot worse than we did.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am impressed how quickly they have been able to react under very
tough condiions

And I am amazed as to how conservatives can think that this was an
insignificant weather event when it placed in the top ten of economic
disasters that have struck the Country...and the final price tag is
not in yet.

TMT

Well, that was their typical knee-jerk stupidity, which is the entire basis
of many of their lives. They live in a fantasyland that exists only between
their ears, fed by rightard garbage from the Internet and talk radio.

Not that much of the left doesn't feed themselves the same way. It's just
that there's so much more of it on the right.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 6:09 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, "Ed wrote:





id wrote in message

...

On 2011-09-02, Ed wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...

"Ed wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest models
show
the
eye going right over my garage.g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The
storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no
power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My
neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches. The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the
level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump
hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it again
the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost
power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree right
across
the street. Mine was too dull for them.g

--
Ed Huntress

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have power.

TMT

They can't even get to some of them yet in Vermont. Connecticut had to
essentially rebuild 4/5 of their power distribution system. Some folks got
off a lot worse than we did.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am impressed how quickly they have been able to react under very
tough condiions

And I am amazed as to how conservatives can think that this was an
insignificant weather event when it placed in the top ten of economic
disasters that have struck the Country...and the final price tag is
not in yet.

TMT

Well, that was their typical knee-jerk stupidity, which is the entire basis
of many of their lives. They live in a fantasyland that exists only between
their ears, fed by rightard garbage from the Internet and talk radio.

Not that much of the left doesn't feed themselves the same way. It's just
that there's so much more of it on the right.



It depends on what yardstick you measure disasters with. As far as
human life toll it was not much of a disaster, and the toll included
people falling off ladders getting ready for the storm not really a
direct result of the storm but rather poor use of a ladder. As far as
economic cost the numbers are not in yet but since the money given to
the states and counties is based on the estimate of damage it will sure
be set at a high value, remember that eventually it will all dribble
out of our pockets in taxes.

I can think of a number of disasters that have killed a lot more people.
The steamboat sultana blowing up killed more than a thousand. The
triangle shirtwaist fire. a passenger boat sunk in the east river in NYC
killed quite a few not to mention a bunch of train wrecks over the
last century as well as airline crashes.

John

"John" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 6:09 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, "Ed wrote:





id wrote in message

...

On 2011-09-02, Ed wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...

"Ed wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest models
show
the
eye going right over my garage.g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The
storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no
power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My
neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches. The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the
level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump
hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it again
the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost
power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree right
across
the street. Mine was too dull for them.g

--
Ed Huntress

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have power.

TMT

They can't even get to some of them yet in Vermont. Connecticut had to
essentially rebuild 4/5 of their power distribution system. Some folks
got
off a lot worse than we did.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am impressed how quickly they have been able to react under very
tough condiions

And I am amazed as to how conservatives can think that this was an
insignificant weather event when it placed in the top ten of economic
disasters that have struck the Country...and the final price tag is
not in yet.

TMT

Well, that was their typical knee-jerk stupidity, which is the entire
basis
of many of their lives. They live in a fantasyland that exists only
between
their ears, fed by rightard garbage from the Internet and talk radio.

Not that much of the left doesn't feed themselves the same way. It's just
that there's so much more of it on the right.



It depends on what yardstick you measure disasters with. As far as human
life toll it was not much of a disaster, and the toll included people
falling off ladders getting ready for the storm not really a direct result
of the storm but rather poor use of a ladder. As far as economic cost
the numbers are not in yet but since the money given to the states and
counties is based on the estimate of damage it will sure be set at a high
value, remember that eventually it will all dribble out of our pockets in
taxes.

People all over the East have lost their homes, their businesses, and their
property, much of which is uninsured because most homeowners don't have
flood insurance, and some have lost loved ones, and you're talking about the
effect on your taxes.

I can't relate to that attitude at all.


I can think of a number of disasters that have killed a lot more people.
The steamboat sultana blowing up killed more than a thousand. The
triangle shirtwaist fire. a passenger boat sunk in the east river in NYC
killed quite a few not to mention a bunch of train wrecks over the last
century as well as airline crashes.

John

Great. And then there was the Civil War, which makes them all look like a
sore thumb by comparison.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 6:09 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, "Ed wrote:





id wrote in message

...

On 2011-09-02, Ed wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...

"Ed wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest models
show
the
eye going right over my garage.g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The
storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no
power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My
neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches. The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the
level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump
hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it again
the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost
power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree right
across
the street. Mine was too dull for them.g

--
Ed Huntress

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have power.

TMT

They can't even get to some of them yet in Vermont. Connecticut had to
essentially rebuild 4/5 of their power distribution system. Some folks
got
off a lot worse than we did.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am impressed how quickly they have been able to react under very
tough condiions

And I am amazed as to how conservatives can think that this was an
insignificant weather event when it placed in the top ten of economic
disasters that have struck the Country...and the final price tag is
not in yet.

TMT

Well, that was their typical knee-jerk stupidity, which is the entire
basis
of many of their lives. They live in a fantasyland that exists only
between
their ears, fed by rightard garbage from the Internet and talk radio.

Not that much of the left doesn't feed themselves the same way. It's just
that there's so much more of it on the right.



It depends on what yardstick you measure disasters with. As far as human
life toll it was not much of a disaster, and the toll included people
falling off ladders getting ready for the storm not really a direct result
of the storm but rather poor use of a ladder. As far as economic cost
the numbers are not in yet but since the money given to the states and
counties is based on the estimate of damage it will sure be set at a high
value, remember that eventually it will all dribble out of our pockets in
taxes.

People all over the East have lost their homes, their businesses, and their
property, much of which is uninsured because most homeowners don't have
flood insurance, and some have lost loved ones, and you're talking about the
effect on your taxes.

I can't relate to that attitude at all.

Ed,

You should reread what I said. I commented on on the fact that it was
said that this is one of the 10 worst disasters in this country and that
that is not a legitimate statement of fact. I also commented that the
politicians push up the numbers so they can rake in more money from the
government by embellishing the cost of the damage.
I guess I am a little cynical about politicians and money since they
convicted over 37 including at least three judges in this county in the
last year and still have more coming up for trial.
It is a shame that the people didn't have flood insurance but government
flood insurance is one of the cheapest insurance policy s you can buy
but in spite of that many people don't get it. They even let you renew
it after you get flooded out several times.

The thing that I cannot comprehend is that the news comments on a small
number of people that died in the hurricane but never says much about
the thousands of people that get killed on the highways, home accidents
and other ways but expounds on the victims of the hurricane. Not that
one life is more or less value than another but the news has become
sensationalism.

As far as the government helping peoples losses, I do have somewhat of
a problem with it.
Why shouldn't the government help anyone that has a loss, not in the
flood or hurricane but the person whose house burned down and has no
insurance. Where is the dividing line where the government makes a
decision to help the individual? In my estimation is is unfair to help
one group without helping everyone that has a non insured loss. So what
do you think the policy should be?

John








I can think of a number of disasters that have killed a lot more people.
The steamboat sultana blowing up killed more than a thousand. The
triangle shirtwaist fire. a passenger boat sunk in the east river in NYC
killed quite a few not to mention a bunch of train wrecks over the last
century as well as airline crashes.

John

Great. And then there was the Civil War, which makes them all look like a
sore thumb by comparison.

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
The Passaic river drains a lot of territory and it floods with any
signifiant amount of rainfall. It must be a real mess with all the rain
from the tropical storm.

We may not flood as bad as many other areas of the country... But it
affects a lot more people and a heck of a lot more businesses than anywhere
else in the nation given our business and population density... Imagine it
taking 3 hours to go 50 miles (straight line) on highways because of traffic
and closed roads. ...That's the commute for some people right now if they
are lucky enough to be able to get out.

No worries though, Katina is on the way to give us another round of
cleansing rain and wind.


I drove down I80 Thursday and in the Fairfield Wayne area the Passaic
river was still lapping at the roadway of some of the bridges in that
area. Exit 52 was blocked off except for local traffic and with the
water that high all the houses on the one crossroad by the two bridges
area and Fairfield road will be flooded to the first floor. I drove up
the parkway to Orangeburg NY. and everything looked normal with no
observable damage. I have never seen the Oradell reservoir that full.

John

It's been several days. So, there is still plenty of storm
damage?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have
power.

TMT

They can't even get to some of them yet in Vermont.
Connecticut had to
essentially rebuild 4/5 of their power distribution system.
Some folks got
off a lot worse than we did.

--
Ed Huntress

Ideally, the Fed and the States would perform only thier
constitutionally delegated powers. However, the genie is out
of the bottle, and that won't happen until the next
revolution.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"John" wrote in message
...

As far as the government helping peoples losses, I do have
somewhat of
a problem with it.
Why shouldn't the government help anyone that has a loss,
not in the
flood or hurricane but the person whose house burned down
and has no
insurance. Where is the dividing line where the government
makes a
decision to help the individual? In my estimation is is
unfair to help
one group without helping everyone that has a non insured
loss. So what
do you think the policy should be?

John








I can think of a number of disasters that have killed a
lot more people.
The steamboat sultana blowing up killed more than a
thousand. The
triangle shirtwaist fire. a passenger boat sunk in the
east river in NYC
killed quite a few not to mention a bunch of train wrecks
over the last
century as well as airline crashes.

John

Great. And then there was the Civil War, which makes them
all look like a
sore thumb by comparison.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
It's been several days. So, there is still plenty of storm
damage?

Oh, yeah. Some of the rivers didn't peak here until Wednesday.

Joe Autodrill described the situation in north Jersey quite well. There are
people who live on a flood plain that, at one time, was not really a
problem. But with all of the further development, and the channelizing of
the creeks and streams, they get hit much worse now than when some of the
old-timers bought their homes.

The power outage at the end of my street was just repaired Saturday. It only
affected two houses but the point is that the cleanup and fixes are taking a
long time. And my power company, PSE&G, has been about the fastest in
repairing damage. They had crews in here from Michigan and Wisconsin, and
even from Oklahoma, I heard.

It's going to be a long while before those folks near the north Jersey
rivers are going to be cleaned up enough to get back into their houses, if
they ever can, in some cases.

--
Ed Huntress


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have
power.

TMT

They can't even get to some of them yet in Vermont.
Connecticut had to
essentially rebuild 4/5 of their power distribution system.
Some folks got
off a lot worse than we did.

--
Ed Huntress

"John" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 6:09 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, "Ed wrote:





id wrote in
message

...

On 2011-09-02, Ed wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...

"Ed wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest
models
show
the
eye going right over my garage.g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The
storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one
did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no
power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one
does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My
neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches.
The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the
level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump
hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it
again
the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost
power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree right
across
the street. Mine was too dull for them.g

--
Ed Huntress

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have power.

TMT

They can't even get to some of them yet in Vermont. Connecticut had to
essentially rebuild 4/5 of their power distribution system. Some folks
got
off a lot worse than we did.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am impressed how quickly they have been able to react under very
tough condiions

And I am amazed as to how conservatives can think that this was an
insignificant weather event when it placed in the top ten of economic
disasters that have struck the Country...and the final price tag is
not in yet.

TMT

Well, that was their typical knee-jerk stupidity, which is the entire
basis
of many of their lives. They live in a fantasyland that exists only
between
their ears, fed by rightard garbage from the Internet and talk radio.

Not that much of the left doesn't feed themselves the same way. It's
just
that there's so much more of it on the right.



It depends on what yardstick you measure disasters with. As far as
human
life toll it was not much of a disaster, and the toll included people
falling off ladders getting ready for the storm not really a direct
result
of the storm but rather poor use of a ladder. As far as economic cost
the numbers are not in yet but since the money given to the states and
counties is based on the estimate of damage it will sure be set at a
high
value, remember that eventually it will all dribble out of our pockets
in
taxes.

People all over the East have lost their homes, their businesses, and
their
property, much of which is uninsured because most homeowners don't have
flood insurance, and some have lost loved ones, and you're talking about
the
effect on your taxes.

I can't relate to that attitude at all.

Ed,

You should reread what I said. I commented on on the fact that it was
said that this is one of the 10 worst disasters in this country and that
that is not a legitimate statement of fact.

Ok. If you confine "disasters" to loss of human life, it was not a big one.
If you include property damage, it was.

I also commented that the politicians push up the numbers so they can rake
in more money from the government by embellishing the cost of the damage.
I guess I am a little cynical about politicians and money since they
convicted over 37 including at least three judges in this county in the
last year and still have more coming up for trial.

I don't know how they audit those claims, or if they do, so I can't judge
it.

It is a shame that the people didn't have flood insurance but government
flood insurance is one of the cheapest insurance policy s you can buy but
in spite of that many people don't get it. They even let you renew it
after you get flooded out several times.

I'm guessing that a lot of the dollar value of flood damage was done to
homes and businesses that are not on flood plains, but which became
inundated with the heavy rain. That's how I got flooded -- I'm 115 feet
above sea level, and probably 90 feet above the Raritan River. But I got
whacked by two rainfalls, the first almost 6 inches and the second one 10
inches. I have no idea if I'm even eligible for flood insurance.


The thing that I cannot comprehend is that the news comments on a small
number of people that died in the hurricane but never says much about the
thousands of people that get killed on the highways, home accidents and
other ways but expounds on the victims of the hurricane. Not that one
life is more or less value than another but the news has become
sensationalism.

That's news. If it bleeds, it leads, but only locally. A guy getting killed
in a car accident in Nevada is not news in NY. And 40,000 deaths is a
chronic tragedy. Chronic things don't make the news. Hurricanes, tornadoes,
and so on, do. That's just the way it's always been.

No one in PA wants to read about a house fire in Cleveland.


As far as the government helping peoples losses, I do have somewhat of a
problem with it.
Why shouldn't the government help anyone that has a loss, not in the flood
or hurricane but the person whose house burned down and has no insurance.
Where is the dividing line where the government makes a decision to help
the individual?

I think it has to do with the correlative economic and service effect on an
area. One house can be dealt with in a town. A wiped-out town cannot. It
needs big-time help to recover.

In my estimation is is unfair to help one group without helping everyone
that has a non insured loss. So what do you think the policy should be?

Well, first off, I agree with much of your basic premise. I'm still furious
that we subsidize homeowner's insurance for people who build on barrier
islands, which is a big issue in NJ. My feeling is that doing something that
stupid and self-indulgent should not be covered by the rest of us, except
regarding protecting human life to the extent possible. (They tell me that I
have it all wrong, that we don't really subsidize it, but I haven't explored
it enough to know for sure.)

A region that's nearly wiped out by a flood or other disaster is not
something that can be easily judged, IMO. I do feel we have a responsibility
to each other to try to ameliorate acts of nature that cause severe regional
hardship. But I don't think we should subsidize stupidity or selfish
indulgence.

Living on a barrier island, for example, is like heaven for some people. My
parents did it during the last years of their lives. But it costs the rest
of us somehow. On a barrier island, a hurricane raises real hell with the
roads, the beaches, and so on, even when it doesn't kill people. I'd let
them return to nature, like Island Beach State Park in NJ, or Assateague
Island off the Delmarva Peninsula.

On the other hand, the people in Vermont had no reason to expect the
disaster they faced. Who would have guessed that a hurricane would flood out
all those inland towns? What's the chance, 1:100,000?

They need help. The state can't handle it alone. So I believe the rest of us
should pitch in. It's part of the cost of living in a civilized society.

--
Ed Huntress



John








I can think of a number of disasters that have killed a lot more people.
The steamboat sultana blowing up killed more than a thousand. The
triangle shirtwaist fire. a passenger boat sunk in the east river in NYC
killed quite a few not to mention a bunch of train wrecks over the last
century as well as airline crashes.

John

Great. And then there was the Civil War, which makes them all look like a
sore thumb by comparison.

Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 6:09 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, "Ed wrote:





id wrote in
message

...

On 2011-09-02, Ed wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...

"Ed wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest
models
show
the
eye going right over my garage.g I'm only 6 miles from salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The
storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one
did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no
power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one
does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My
neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches.
The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the
level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump
hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it
again
the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost
power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree right
across
the street. Mine was too dull for them.g

--
Ed Huntress

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have power.

TMT

They can't even get to some of them yet in Vermont. Connecticut had to
essentially rebuild 4/5 of their power distribution system. Some folks
got
off a lot worse than we did.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am impressed how quickly they have been able to react under very
tough condiions

And I am amazed as to how conservatives can think that this was an
insignificant weather event when it placed in the top ten of economic
disasters that have struck the Country...and the final price tag is
not in yet.

TMT

Well, that was their typical knee-jerk stupidity, which is the entire
basis
of many of their lives. They live in a fantasyland that exists only
between
their ears, fed by rightard garbage from the Internet and talk radio.

Not that much of the left doesn't feed themselves the same way. It's
just
that there's so much more of it on the right.



It depends on what yardstick you measure disasters with. As far as
human
life toll it was not much of a disaster, and the toll included people
falling off ladders getting ready for the storm not really a direct
result
of the storm but rather poor use of a ladder. As far as economic cost
the numbers are not in yet but since the money given to the states and
counties is based on the estimate of damage it will sure be set at a
high
value, remember that eventually it will all dribble out of our pockets
in
taxes.

People all over the East have lost their homes, their businesses, and
their
property, much of which is uninsured because most homeowners don't have
flood insurance, and some have lost loved ones, and you're talking about
the
effect on your taxes.

I can't relate to that attitude at all.

Ed,

You should reread what I said. I commented on on the fact that it was
said that this is one of the 10 worst disasters in this country and that
that is not a legitimate statement of fact.

Ok. If you confine "disasters" to loss of human life, it was not a big one.
If you include property damage, it was.

I also commented that the politicians push up the numbers so they can rake
in more money from the government by embellishing the cost of the damage.
I guess I am a little cynical about politicians and money since they
convicted over 37 including at least three judges in this county in the
last year and still have more coming up for trial.

I don't know how they audit those claims, or if they do, so I can't judge
it.

It is a shame that the people didn't have flood insurance but government
flood insurance is one of the cheapest insurance policy s you can buy but
in spite of that many people don't get it. They even let you renew it
after you get flooded out several times.

I'm guessing that a lot of the dollar value of flood damage was done to
homes and businesses that are not on flood plains, but which became
inundated with the heavy rain. That's how I got flooded -- I'm 115 feet
above sea level, and probably 90 feet above the Raritan River. But I got
whacked by two rainfalls, the first almost 6 inches and the second one 10
inches. I have no idea if I'm even eligible for flood insurance.


The thing that I cannot comprehend is that the news comments on a small
number of people that died in the hurricane but never says much about the
thousands of people that get killed on the highways, home accidents and
other ways but expounds on the victims of the hurricane. Not that one
life is more or less value than another but the news has become
sensationalism.

That's news. If it bleeds, it leads, but only locally. A guy getting killed
in a car accident in Nevada is not news in NY. And 40,000 deaths is a
chronic tragedy. Chronic things don't make the news. Hurricanes, tornadoes,
and so on, do. That's just the way it's always been.

No one in PA wants to read about a house fire in Cleveland.


As far as the government helping peoples losses, I do have somewhat of a
problem with it.
Why shouldn't the government help anyone that has a loss, not in the flood
or hurricane but the person whose house burned down and has no insurance.
Where is the dividing line where the government makes a decision to help
the individual?

I think it has to do with the correlative economic and service effect on an
area. One house can be dealt with in a town. A wiped-out town cannot. It
needs big-time help to recover.

In my estimation is is unfair to help one group without helping everyone
that has a non insured loss. So what do you think the policy should be?

Well, first off, I agree with much of your basic premise. I'm still furious
that we subsidize homeowner's insurance for people who build on barrier
islands, which is a big issue in NJ. My feeling is that doing something that
stupid and self-indulgent should not be covered by the rest of us, except
regarding protecting human life to the extent possible. (They tell me that I
have it all wrong, that we don't really subsidize it, but I haven't explored
it enough to know for sure.)

A region that's nearly wiped out by a flood or other disaster is not
something that can be easily judged, IMO. I do feel we have a responsibility
to each other to try to ameliorate acts of nature that cause severe regional
hardship. But I don't think we should subsidize stupidity or selfish
indulgence.

Living on a barrier island, for example, is like heaven for some people. My
parents did it during the last years of their lives. But it costs the rest
of us somehow. On a barrier island, a hurricane raises real hell with the
roads, the beaches, and so on, even when it doesn't kill people. I'd let
them return to nature, like Island Beach State Park in NJ, or Assateague
Island off the Delmarva Peninsula.

On the other hand, the people in Vermont had no reason to expect the
disaster they faced. Who would have guessed that a hurricane would flood out
all those inland towns? What's the chance, 1:100,000?

They need help. The state can't handle it alone. So I believe the rest of us
should pitch in. It's part of the cost of living in a civilized society.




Your flooding would not be covered under the national flood insurance
program. It does not fit the definition of a flood according to the
information given in the following link.
http://www.fema.gov/library/viewReco...n=back&id=1404
you will have to download the pdf file.
see question # 6 and 59 that describes your condition.

Another point is that if you accept aid either as a loan or grant from
the government you are then required to buy flood insurance for that
property. I think after two floods the government should buy you out
and make a park out of the properties. The area in Wayne NJ floods
every couple of years and I would imagine that they collect every couple
years too. Most of those houses are raised up off the ground. There is
something wrong with letting that continue.

I would imagine the best insurance for your condition is a small
generator and pump with a backup DC low voltage 12 volt pump and a deep
cycle battery that you could charge off your car.

I have a running spring in my basement in my building and the last
couple of rainy months my well turned into an artisan well with water
coming out of the top sanitary cap and also running into the basement.
I run a sump pump and two backup units with a portable generator if
necessary.
I am thinking of moving the well tank out of the cellar and letting the
cellar fill up and use it for a heat pump source. it's a small cellar.
Before I bought the building the cellar did flood and floated the well
tank ripping off all the wiring and piping. I think they lost the sump
pump and didn't know it. if the power does go out I have plenty of
water for the neighborhood.

John

"john" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 6:09 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 2, 3:09 pm, "Ed wrote:





id wrote in
message

...

On 2011-09-02, Ed wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 6:37 am, "Ed
wrote:
wrote in message

...

"Ed wrote:

Is anyone starting to plan evacuation out there? The latest
models
show
the
eye going right over my garage.g I'm only 6 miles from
salt
water,
but
I'm at 115 feet of altitude, so I'm going to ride it out. The
storm
surge
*could* wind up re-shaping the barrier islands of NJ, like one
did
just
under a century ago.

It doesn't look good.

Did you come out okay?

Wes

Oh, yeah. But I got a new wading pool in my basement. d8-)

All is well, thanks. Everything is drying out pretty well.

A question...how does one recover from flooding when you have no
power
like so many affected by Irene?

No pumps, no vacuums, no lights.

How are you and your neighbors coping with the cleanup when one
does
not have power?

We have power. My house lost power at 2:00 AM during the
hurricane,
when
a
tree branch fell on our pole drops from across the street. My
neighbors
did
not lose power, so, early the next morning, I ran an extension
cord
from
my
neighbor's garage to my house.

Meantime, the water in the basement had risen to almost 7 inches.
The
sump
pump didn't actually pump it all out. After the rain stopped, the
level
went
down 4 inches without the pump running. It just ran down the sump
hole
and
out under our slab. Very strange.

Why was not the pump pumping? Did it break or something?

The pump stopped at 2:00 AM when my power went out. I started it
again
the
next morning by running an extension cord from my neighbor's
garage.

One other house and mine were the only two on the street that lost
power.
The other guy's house was on "Good Morning America" the next
morning,
because he had a photogenic mess of downed wires and a big tree
right
across
the street. Mine was too dull for them.g

--
Ed Huntress

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
FYI...I just heard that 900,000 people still don't have power.

TMT

They can't even get to some of them yet in Vermont. Connecticut had
to
essentially rebuild 4/5 of their power distribution system. Some
folks
got
off a lot worse than we did.

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am impressed how quickly they have been able to react under very
tough condiions

And I am amazed as to how conservatives can think that this was an
insignificant weather event when it placed in the top ten of
economic
disasters that have struck the Country...and the final price tag is
not in yet.

TMT

Well, that was their typical knee-jerk stupidity, which is the entire
basis
of many of their lives. They live in a fantasyland that exists only
between
their ears, fed by rightard garbage from the Internet and talk radio.

Not that much of the left doesn't feed themselves the same way. It's
just
that there's so much more of it on the right.



It depends on what yardstick you measure disasters with. As far as
human
life toll it was not much of a disaster, and the toll included people
falling off ladders getting ready for the storm not really a direct
result
of the storm but rather poor use of a ladder. As far as economic
cost
the numbers are not in yet but since the money given to the states and
counties is based on the estimate of damage it will sure be set at a
high
value, remember that eventually it will all dribble out of our
pockets
in
taxes.

People all over the East have lost their homes, their businesses, and
their
property, much of which is uninsured because most homeowners don't have
flood insurance, and some have lost loved ones, and you're talking
about
the
effect on your taxes.

I can't relate to that attitude at all.

Ed,

You should reread what I said. I commented on on the fact that it was
said that this is one of the 10 worst disasters in this country and that
that is not a legitimate statement of fact.

Ok. If you confine "disasters" to loss of human life, it was not a big
one.
If you include property damage, it was.

I also commented that the politicians push up the numbers so they can
rake
in more money from the government by embellishing the cost of the
damage.
I guess I am a little cynical about politicians and money since they
convicted over 37 including at least three judges in this county in the
last year and still have more coming up for trial.

I don't know how they audit those claims, or if they do, so I can't judge
it.

It is a shame that the people didn't have flood insurance but government
flood insurance is one of the cheapest insurance policy s you can buy
but
in spite of that many people don't get it. They even let you renew it
after you get flooded out several times.

I'm guessing that a lot of the dollar value of flood damage was done to
homes and businesses that are not on flood plains, but which became
inundated with the heavy rain. That's how I got flooded -- I'm 115 feet
above sea level, and probably 90 feet above the Raritan River. But I got
whacked by two rainfalls, the first almost 6 inches and the second one 10
inches. I have no idea if I'm even eligible for flood insurance.


The thing that I cannot comprehend is that the news comments on a small
number of people that died in the hurricane but never says much about
the
thousands of people that get killed on the highways, home accidents and
other ways but expounds on the victims of the hurricane. Not that one
life is more or less value than another but the news has become
sensationalism.

That's news. If it bleeds, it leads, but only locally. A guy getting
killed
in a car accident in Nevada is not news in NY. And 40,000 deaths is a
chronic tragedy. Chronic things don't make the news. Hurricanes,
tornadoes,
and so on, do. That's just the way it's always been.

No one in PA wants to read about a house fire in Cleveland.


As far as the government helping peoples losses, I do have somewhat of
a
problem with it.
Why shouldn't the government help anyone that has a loss, not in the
flood
or hurricane but the person whose house burned down and has no
insurance.
Where is the dividing line where the government makes a decision to help
the individual?

I think it has to do with the correlative economic and service effect on
an
area. One house can be dealt with in a town. A wiped-out town cannot. It
needs big-time help to recover.

In my estimation is is unfair to help one group without helping
everyone
that has a non insured loss. So what do you think the policy should be?

Well, first off, I agree with much of your basic premise. I'm still
furious
that we subsidize homeowner's insurance for people who build on barrier
islands, which is a big issue in NJ. My feeling is that doing something
that
stupid and self-indulgent should not be covered by the rest of us, except
regarding protecting human life to the extent possible. (They tell me
that I
have it all wrong, that we don't really subsidize it, but I haven't
explored
it enough to know for sure.)

A region that's nearly wiped out by a flood or other disaster is not
something that can be easily judged, IMO. I do feel we have a
responsibility
to each other to try to ameliorate acts of nature that cause severe
regional
hardship. But I don't think we should subsidize stupidity or selfish
indulgence.

Living on a barrier island, for example, is like heaven for some people.
My
parents did it during the last years of their lives. But it costs the
rest
of us somehow. On a barrier island, a hurricane raises real hell with the
roads, the beaches, and so on, even when it doesn't kill people. I'd let
them return to nature, like Island Beach State Park in NJ, or Assateague
Island off the Delmarva Peninsula.

On the other hand, the people in Vermont had no reason to expect the
disaster they faced. Who would have guessed that a hurricane would flood
out
all those inland towns? What's the chance, 1:100,000?

They need help. The state can't handle it alone. So I believe the rest of
us
should pitch in. It's part of the cost of living in a civilized society.




Your flooding would not be covered under the national flood insurance
program. It does not fit the definition of a flood according to the
information given in the following link.

That's what I thought.

http://www.fema.gov/library/viewReco...n=back&id=1404
you will have to download the pdf file.
see question # 6 and 59 that describes your condition.

Another point is that if you accept aid either as a loan or grant from the
government you are then required to buy flood insurance for that property.
I think after two floods the government should buy you out and make a park
out of the properties. The area in Wayne NJ floods every couple of years
and I would imagine that they collect every couple years too. Most of
those houses are raised up off the ground. There is something wrong with
letting that continue.

I would imagine the best insurance for your condition is a small
generator and pump with a backup DC low voltage 12 volt pump and a deep
cycle battery that you could charge off your car.

g We've discussed this here before. With a mean time between events of 25
years for me, it's not worth the lost interest on the investment. And I
don't need another thing to maintain.


I have a running spring in my basement in my building and the last couple
of rainy months my well turned into an artisan well with water coming out
of the top sanitary cap and also running into the basement. I run a sump
pump and two backup units with a portable generator if necessary.
I am thinking of moving the well tank out of the cellar and letting the
cellar fill up and use it for a heat pump source. it's a small cellar.
Before I bought the building the cellar did flood and floated the well
tank ripping off all the wiring and piping. I think they lost the sump
pump and didn't know it. if the power does go out I have plenty of water
for the neighborhood.

John

Have you considered starting an indoor swimming club? d8-)

--
Ed Huntress