Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree, which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion, who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree, which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion, who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree, which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion, who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

And on the solstice and all ! G no respect.


SW

On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree, which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion, who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever
this "God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different
in that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Dec 21, 8:34*pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
And on the solstice and all ! *G no respect.

SW

Let us celebrate Alban Arthan in peace.

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree, which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion, who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever
this "God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different
in that their box for God has no room inside.

As I said, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality
also cannot comprehend atheism. You post clearly illustrates this.

Atheists do not recognize any concept of a "god" since there is not a
shred of supporting evidence for such a concept, so it has no place at
all in our lives. We live our lives in the real world believing in what
is testable and provable.

If there was a shred of credibility to the claims of the promoters of
the various mythologies, they would have found so shred of evidence to
support their claims in the thousands of years they've been trying.
These are the same people who deny evolution, despite the fact that it's
been thoroughly proven in the years since it was first proposed.

"Pete C." wrote in message
er.com...

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload
the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their
home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas
tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and
tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from
the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population
is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a
package for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in
my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where
children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what
Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the
iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is
a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith
in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever
this "God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different
in that their box for God has no room inside.

As I said, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality
also cannot comprehend atheism. You post clearly illustrates this.

Atheists do not recognize any concept of a "god" since there is not a
shred of supporting evidence for such a concept, so it has no place at
all in our lives. We live our lives in the real world believing in what
is testable and provable.

If there was a shred of credibility to the claims of the promoters of
the various mythologies, they would have found so shred of evidence to
support their claims in the thousands of years they've been trying.
These are the same people who deny evolution, despite the fact that it's
been thoroughly proven in the years since it was first proposed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJrVR4zyusU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBRKY...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNkxpTIbCIw&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7u01eewDY

Many atheists have became believers, I suppose you consider yourself smarter
than all of them?

RogerN

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:27:02 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 21, 8:34*pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
And on the solstice and all ! *G no respect.

SW

Let us celebrate Alban Arthan in peace.

A swingin' Saturnalia (or Sol Invictus) to you Romans.

Happy Yule to you folks. Blessed be.


--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:27:02 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 21, 8:34 pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
And on the solstice and all ! G no respect.

SW

Let us celebrate Alban Arthan in peace.

A swingin' Saturnalia (or Sol Invictus) to you Romans.

Happy Yule to you folks. Blessed be.


--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart

What belief system has the prettiest girls? I'll join!

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:27:02 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
On Dec 21, 8:34 pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
And on the solstice and all ! G no respect.

Let us celebrate Alban Arthan in peace.

A swingin' Saturnalia (or Sol Invictus) to you Romans.

Happy Yule to you folks. Blessed be.

If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.

What belief system has the prettiest girls? I'll join!

Probably Hindu. Ever seen the Kama Sutra? :-

Cheers!
Rich

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package
for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever this
"God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different in
that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott

Another difference in atheists is that they must force everyone else to
believe as they do.

Sounds vaguely familiar, but can't say how .................

Steve

RogerN wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
er.com...

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload
the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their
home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas
tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and
tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from
the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population
is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a
package for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in
my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where
children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what
Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the
iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is
a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith
in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever
this "God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different
in that their box for God has no room inside.

As I said, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality
also cannot comprehend atheism. You post clearly illustrates this.

Atheists do not recognize any concept of a "god" since there is not a
shred of supporting evidence for such a concept, so it has no place at
all in our lives. We live our lives in the real world believing in what
is testable and provable.

If there was a shred of credibility to the claims of the promoters of
the various mythologies, they would have found so shred of evidence to
support their claims in the thousands of years they've been trying.
These are the same people who deny evolution, despite the fact that it's
been thoroughly proven in the years since it was first proposed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJrVR4zyusU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBRKY...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNkxpTIbCIw&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7u01eewDY

Many atheists have became believers, I suppose you consider yourself smarter
than all of them?

RogerN

Clearly one who can differentiate fantasy from reality is more
intelligent than one who effectively thinks Mickey Mouse is real.

Steve B wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package
for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever this
"God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different in
that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott

Another difference in atheists is that they must force everyone else to
believe as they do.

Sorry, that claim is entirely false.

It is the cancerous religious kooks who are constantly trying to force
their beliefs on others, i.e. plastering the idiotic billboards
everywhere, signs on lawns, trying to for religion into public schools,
trying to force their religion into laws, etc. Atheists do nothing of
the sort, they only fight off such attacks by the religious kooks.

The claims by some religions "leaders" that their religion is under
attack are not only false, they are in fact using such false claims to
incite their mindless minions into attacking others who do not believe
their mythology. This is a very dangerous game to play since human
psychology is very vulnerable to victim mentality.

On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 02:57:51 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:27:02 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
On Dec 21, 8:34 pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
And on the solstice and all ! G no respect.

Let us celebrate Alban Arthan in peace.

A swingin' Saturnalia (or Sol Invictus) to you Romans.

Happy Yule to you folks. Blessed be.

If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.

What belief system has the prettiest girls? I'll join!

Not Catholic.
http://www.reneelevy.com/Dessins/Dej.../72virgins.jpg

Not Islamic.
http://bobmccarty.com/wp-content/upl...gins-photo.jpg


Probably Hindu. Ever seen the Kama Sutra? :-

Uh, that's a book, Rich. A wonderful training book.

Amrita Rao and Aishwarya Rai get my member's full attention.

http://tinyurl.com/2dd8ofs
and
http://sexiest.indian-actress.ever.com/

--
Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

"Pete C." wrote:

Sorry, that claim is entirely false.


Bull****. You can't stop posting your crap. BTW, enjoy working on
Christmas day. That is, if you're not a hypocrite.


It is the cancerous religious kooks who are constantly trying to force
their beliefs on others, i.e. plastering the idiotic billboards
everywhere, signs on lawns, trying to for religion into public schools,
trying to force their religion into laws, etc. Atheists do nothing of
the sort, they only fight off such attacks by the religious kooks.

The claims by some religions "leaders" that their religion is under
attack are not only false, they are in fact using such false claims to
incite their mindless minions into attacking others who do not believe
their mythology. This is a very dangerous game to play since human
psychology is very vulnerable to victim mentality.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

RogerN wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
er.com...

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has
decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over
the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to
overload
the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their
home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab
Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas
tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework
of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and
tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an
Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating
the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181
diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said
Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the
tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from
the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local
population
is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a
package for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration
in
my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where
children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you
characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any
religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would
so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what
Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the
iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion
is
a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world
unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong
faith
in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality
also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever
this "God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any
other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only
different
in that their box for God has no room inside.

As I said, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality
also cannot comprehend atheism. You post clearly illustrates this.

Atheists do not recognize any concept of a "god" since there is not a
shred of supporting evidence for such a concept, so it has no place at
all in our lives. We live our lives in the real world believing in what
is testable and provable.

If there was a shred of credibility to the claims of the promoters of
the various mythologies, they would have found so shred of evidence to
support their claims in the thousands of years they've been trying.
These are the same people who deny evolution, despite the fact that
it's
been thoroughly proven in the years since it was first proposed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJrVR4zyusU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBRKY...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNkxpTIbCIw&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7u01eewDY

Many atheists have became believers, I suppose you consider yourself
smarter
than all of them?

RogerN

Clearly one who can differentiate fantasy from reality is more
intelligent than one who effectively thinks Mickey Mouse is real.

I guess that's why you send your children to our schools in an effort to
make them more intelligent. Thanks for clearing that up!

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:27:02 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 21, 8:34 pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
And on the solstice and all ! G no respect.

SW

Let us celebrate Alban Arthan in peace.

A swingin' Saturnalia (or Sol Invictus) to you Romans.

Happy Yule to you folks. Blessed be.


--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart

What belief system has the prettiest girls? I'll join!


It's not the democrats, that's for sure.

On 12/22/2010 04:59 AM, Steve B wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package
for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever this
"God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different in
that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott

Another difference in atheists is that they must force everyone else to
believe as they do.

Sounds vaguely familiar, but can't say how .................

You're right! That's another fundamental fundamentalist behavior. Thanks.

Note that I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything -- I'm just
bitching.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Sorry, that claim is entirely false.

Bull****. You can't stop posting your crap.

No atheists are going door to door harassing people and leaving leaflets
of insanity. No atheists are going around trying to force private
religious schools to teach the facts of evolution.

BTW, enjoy working on
Christmas day. That is, if you're not a hypocrite.

In case you didn't notice, your false holiday falls on a Saturday this
year. Even so, I am indeed working Saturday, and have routinely worked
on your false holiday in past years as well.


It is the cancerous religious kooks who are constantly trying to force
their beliefs on others, i.e. plastering the idiotic billboards
everywhere, signs on lawns, trying to for religion into public schools,
trying to force their religion into laws, etc. Atheists do nothing of
the sort, they only fight off such attacks by the religious kooks.

The claims by some religions "leaders" that their religion is under
attack are not only false, they are in fact using such false claims to
incite their mindless minions into attacking others who do not believe
their mythology. This is a very dangerous game to play since human
psychology is very vulnerable to victim mentality.

--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

I see you don't have an actual response to the facts.

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/22/2010 04:59 AM, Steve B wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package
for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever this
"God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different in
that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott

Another difference in atheists is that they must force everyone else to
believe as they do.

Sounds vaguely familiar, but can't say how .................

You're right! That's another fundamental fundamentalist behavior. Thanks.

Note that I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything -- I'm just
bitching.

I'm sure you actually believe your lies.

The fact remains that no atheists are trying to force private religious
schools to teach evolution, while religious kooks are indeed trying to
force their religion into public schools.

The fact remains that no atheists are going door to door harassing
people and leaving pamphlets of insane babble, while religious kooks are
indeed doing just that.

The fact remains that no atheists are trying to put atheist displays on
public property, while religious kooks continue to try to put their
religious displays on public property.

On 12/22/2010 10:38 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/22/2010 04:59 AM, Steve B wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package
for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever this
"God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different in
that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott

Another difference in atheists is that they must force everyone else to
believe as they do.

Sounds vaguely familiar, but can't say how .................

You're right! That's another fundamental fundamentalist behavior. Thanks.

Note that I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything -- I'm just
bitching.

I'm sure you actually believe your lies.

The fact remains that no atheists are trying to force private religious
schools to teach evolution, while religious kooks are indeed trying to
force their religion into public schools.

The fact remains that no atheists are going door to door harassing
people and leaving pamphlets of insane babble, while religious kooks are
indeed doing just that.

The fact remains that no atheists are trying to put atheist displays on
public property, while religious kooks continue to try to put their
religious displays on public property.

The fact remains that there's a sub-population of atheists who, when
confronted by the mildest of agnostic comments, start to spew bile.

Please show where I have lied.

Did I lie when I said that you take the non-existence of God on faith?
No -- it's a hypothesis that has been pared down enough so that it is
unprovable either way, so to disbelieve it must be done with a leap of
faith. However much smaller the leap of faith is to disbelief than the
leap to belief, it's still a leap. I never said it took _much_ faith to
disbelieve in God (or, more generally, the divine), I never even said
that I generally believe in God (I usually don't, but I can't sustain my
faith), all I said is that it takes faith.

In fact, asserting that "Science finds no proof of God, therefore there
is no God" not only makes a leap of faith -- it leaps from a
misunderstanding of science, and a false premise. The misunderstanding
is that science proves anything -- it doesn't. Science merely
hypothesizes, then finds evidence to support hypotheses, then given
enough evidence elevates hypotheses to theories. The premise is that
science is infallible, and that it is impossible for something that
science hasn't formed a theory of to exist. Does that mean that quantum
behavior didn't exist before the 20th century, because no one had
hypothesized it yet? Does that mean that Evolution did not happen
before Darwin, because no one had hypothesized it yet? Do I need to go on?

Did I lie when I said your concept of God and the Universe is
inflexible? No -- you're proving the truth of that statement with every
response you make. In fact, I'm pretty sure you'll be doing it some more.

I contend that your very inflexibility makes you a fundamentalist. Your
need to defend your beliefs by demonizing anyone who questions your
belief system (see above, where you take an objective analysis of your
behavior and turn it into "lies") merely bolsters my assessment. If you
were _really_ sure of yourself, you'd blow me off.

Atheists are, by definition* religious fundamentalists. There's a word
for an atheist who's not also a fundamentalist -- that word is
"agnostic". Your need to make me see things your way clearly takes you
out of that category.

I think if you want to be happy with yourself you need to either
recognize and embrace your fundamentalism, so that when you read about
creationists in Texas and mad bombers in Pakistan you can smile with
fellow-feeling, or you need to reexamine just exactly what your beliefs are.

* Well, by _my_ definition. I've stated it, and you are welcome to
_objectively_ analyze it, avoiding all leaps of faith while doing so or
at least identifying them when you do need to use one.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/22/2010 10:38 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/22/2010 04:59 AM, Steve B wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package
for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever this
"God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different in
that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott

Another difference in atheists is that they must force everyone else to
believe as they do.

Sounds vaguely familiar, but can't say how .................

You're right! That's another fundamental fundamentalist behavior. Thanks.

Note that I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything -- I'm just
bitching.

I'm sure you actually believe your lies.

The fact remains that no atheists are trying to force private religious
schools to teach evolution, while religious kooks are indeed trying to
force their religion into public schools.

The fact remains that no atheists are going door to door harassing
people and leaving pamphlets of insane babble, while religious kooks are
indeed doing just that.

The fact remains that no atheists are trying to put atheist displays on
public property, while religious kooks continue to try to put their
religious displays on public property.

The fact remains that there's a sub-population of atheists who, when
confronted by the mildest of agnostic comments, start to spew bile.

I defend against the constant attacks of the promoters of ignorance and
superstition. Were there no such attacks you'd never hear from me or any
other atheists.


Please show where I have lied.

I already did, but you've blinded yourself to that fact.


Did I lie when I said that you take the non-existence of God on faith?
No -- it's a hypothesis that has been pared down enough so that it is
unprovable either way, so to disbelieve it must be done with a leap of
faith. However much smaller the leap of faith is to disbelief than the
leap to belief, it's still a leap. I never said it took _much_ faith to
disbelieve in God (or, more generally, the divine), I never even said
that I generally believe in God (I usually don't, but I can't sustain my
faith), all I said is that it takes faith.

In fact, asserting that "Science finds no proof of God, therefore there
is no God" not only makes a leap of faith -- it leaps from a
misunderstanding of science, and a false premise.

Again, you lie. The truth is that there is no scientific evidence to
support any religious mythology, therefore there is no reason whatsoever
to even consider such mythology.

The misunderstanding
is that science proves anything -- it doesn't.

Another myth from the religious kooks. Science most certainly does prove
facts.

Science merely
hypothesizes, then finds evidence to support hypotheses, then given
enough evidence elevates hypotheses to theories. The premise is that
science is infallible, and that it is impossible for something that
science hasn't formed a theory of to exist. Does that mean that quantum
behavior didn't exist before the 20th century, because no one had
hypothesized it yet? Does that mean that Evolution did not happen
before Darwin, because no one had hypothesized it yet? Do I need to go on?

You can go on proving your ignorance of and/or disbelief in science if
you want, I already know you are brainwashed and will never understand
it.


Did I lie when I said your concept of God and the Universe is
inflexible? No -- you're proving the truth of that statement with every
response you make. In fact, I'm pretty sure you'll be doing it some more.

Once again you make the same false assumptions that all brainwashed
religious kooks make. Atheists concept of the universe and their lack of
belief in any mythology is not at all inflexible. If presented with
valid scientific evidence to support mythological claims of the
existence of a "god", atheists will readily consider that possibility.
Until some such valid evidence is presented, we will continue to view
religious mythology as the ridiculous babble that it is.


I contend that your very inflexibility makes you a fundamentalist. Your
need to defend your beliefs by demonizing anyone who questions your
belief system (see above, where you take an objective analysis of your
behavior and turn it into "lies") merely bolsters my assessment. If you
were _really_ sure of yourself, you'd blow me off.

Your constant distortions and lies in the hopes of making a pseudo logic
argument for your unsupportable beliefs shows you for what you are.


Atheists are, by definition* religious fundamentalists. There's a word
for an atheist who's not also a fundamentalist -- that word is
"agnostic". Your need to make me see things your way clearly takes you
out of that category.

Only by your religiously distorted definition, as you have recognized
below.

Agnostics are nothing more than people who have partially freed
themselves from religious brainwashing, but are still stuck in the
belief that there is a "god", but they don't think the particular
mythology that was imposed on them is valid.


I think if you want to be happy with yourself you need to either
recognize and embrace your fundamentalism, so that when you read about
creationists in Texas and mad bombers in Pakistan you can smile with
fellow-feeling, or you need to reexamine just exactly what your beliefs are.

I don't need to reexamine my beliefs, you need to reexamine yours. As I
noted, atheists are perfectly willing to consider the possibility of a
"god" - when and only when there is supporting evidence for such.
Supporting evidence doesn't equate with proof either by the way.


* Well, by _my_ definition. I've stated it, and you are welcome to
_objectively_ analyze it, avoiding all leaps of faith while doing so or
at least identifying them when you do need to use one.

The only leap of faith here is your belief that there must be a "god"
despite any supporting evidence, and you fundamentalist unwillingness to
consider that that assumption may be wrong.

On 12/22/2010 12:09 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/22/2010 10:38 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/22/2010 04:59 AM, Steve B wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package
for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever this
"God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different in
that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott

Another difference in atheists is that they must force everyone else to
believe as they do.

Sounds vaguely familiar, but can't say how .................

You're right! That's another fundamental fundamentalist behavior. Thanks.

Note that I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything -- I'm just
bitching.

I'm sure you actually believe your lies.

The fact remains that no atheists are trying to force private religious
schools to teach evolution, while religious kooks are indeed trying to
force their religion into public schools.

The fact remains that no atheists are going door to door harassing
people and leaving pamphlets of insane babble, while religious kooks are
indeed doing just that.

The fact remains that no atheists are trying to put atheist displays on
public property, while religious kooks continue to try to put their
religious displays on public property.

The fact remains that there's a sub-population of atheists who, when
confronted by the mildest of agnostic comments, start to spew bile.

I defend against the constant attacks of the promoters of ignorance and
superstition. Were there no such attacks you'd never hear from me or any
other atheists.


Please show where I have lied.

I already did, but you've blinded yourself to that fact.


Did I lie when I said that you take the non-existence of God on faith?
No -- it's a hypothesis that has been pared down enough so that it is
unprovable either way, so to disbelieve it must be done with a leap of
faith. However much smaller the leap of faith is to disbelief than the
leap to belief, it's still a leap. I never said it took _much_ faith to
disbelieve in God (or, more generally, the divine), I never even said
that I generally believe in God (I usually don't, but I can't sustain my
faith), all I said is that it takes faith.

In fact, asserting that "Science finds no proof of God, therefore there
is no God" not only makes a leap of faith -- it leaps from a
misunderstanding of science, and a false premise.

Again, you lie. The truth is that there is no scientific evidence to
support any religious mythology, therefore there is no reason whatsoever
to even consider such mythology.

The misunderstanding
is that science proves anything -- it doesn't.

Another myth from the religious kooks. Science most certainly does prove
facts.

Science merely
hypothesizes, then finds evidence to support hypotheses, then given
enough evidence elevates hypotheses to theories. The premise is that
science is infallible, and that it is impossible for something that
science hasn't formed a theory of to exist. Does that mean that quantum
behavior didn't exist before the 20th century, because no one had
hypothesized it yet? Does that mean that Evolution did not happen
before Darwin, because no one had hypothesized it yet? Do I need to go on?

You can go on proving your ignorance of and/or disbelief in science if
you want, I already know you are brainwashed and will never understand
it.


Did I lie when I said your concept of God and the Universe is
inflexible? No -- you're proving the truth of that statement with every
response you make. In fact, I'm pretty sure you'll be doing it some more.

Once again you make the same false assumptions that all brainwashed
religious kooks make. Atheists concept of the universe and their lack of
belief in any mythology is not at all inflexible. If presented with
valid scientific evidence to support mythological claims of the
existence of a "god", atheists will readily consider that possibility.
Until some such valid evidence is presented, we will continue to view
religious mythology as the ridiculous babble that it is.


I contend that your very inflexibility makes you a fundamentalist. Your
need to defend your beliefs by demonizing anyone who questions your
belief system (see above, where you take an objective analysis of your
behavior and turn it into "lies") merely bolsters my assessment. If you
were _really_ sure of yourself, you'd blow me off.

Your constant distortions and lies in the hopes of making a pseudo logic
argument for your unsupportable beliefs shows you for what you are.


Atheists are, by definition* religious fundamentalists. There's a word
for an atheist who's not also a fundamentalist -- that word is
"agnostic". Your need to make me see things your way clearly takes you
out of that category.

Only by your religiously distorted definition, as you have recognized
below.

Agnostics are nothing more than people who have partially freed
themselves from religious brainwashing, but are still stuck in the
belief that there is a "god", but they don't think the particular
mythology that was imposed on them is valid.


I think if you want to be happy with yourself you need to either
recognize and embrace your fundamentalism, so that when you read about
creationists in Texas and mad bombers in Pakistan you can smile with
fellow-feeling, or you need to reexamine just exactly what your beliefs are.

I don't need to reexamine my beliefs, you need to reexamine yours. As I
noted, atheists are perfectly willing to consider the possibility of a
"god" - when and only when there is supporting evidence for such.
Supporting evidence doesn't equate with proof either by the way.


* Well, by _my_ definition. I've stated it, and you are welcome to
_objectively_ analyze it, avoiding all leaps of faith while doing so or
at least identifying them when you do need to use one.

The only leap of faith here is your belief that there must be a "god"
despite any supporting evidence, and you fundamentalist unwillingness to
consider that that assumption may be wrong.

Thank you for proving my points. I'll take my own advice and blow you
off now.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:27:02 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
On Dec 21, 8:34 pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
And on the solstice and all ! G no respect.

Let us celebrate Alban Arthan in peace.

A swingin' Saturnalia (or Sol Invictus) to you Romans.

Happy Yule to you folks. Blessed be.

If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.

What belief system has the prettiest girls? I'll join!

Probably Hindu. Ever seen the Kama Sutra? :-

Cheers!
Rich


For the sake of the rapture, some circles seem to have
a variorum edition under the pronunciation "Coma Sutra".
O.K. Hard not to appreciate fertility cult theology. Come
to think of it, wasn't that one of the bruited charges
against the fellow who finished second in some media
"Man-of-the-Year" awards?

On the other exchange between the two gentlemen, I find
myself an adherent of one position but, at the generally
upbeat season the only polemic I prefer is "Good Cheer!"
When how people treat people becomes a secondary
assessment, then there's time for critical review. But "Good
Cheer!" again, along with a "Gleaming Festivus".

Regards,

EH

Regards,

EH

"Chomp Noamsky" wrote in message
...


"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:27:02 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 21, 8:34 pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
And on the solstice and all ! G no respect.

SW

Let us celebrate Alban Arthan in peace.

A swingin' Saturnalia (or Sol Invictus) to you Romans.

Happy Yule to you folks. Blessed be.


--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart

What belief system has the prettiest girls? I'll join!


It's not the democrats, that's for sure.

Two of my nephews were headed of to a Global Warming rally. I happened to
be visiting my brother that day and asked the nephews why they were
interested in global warming. They said they weren't but it was a great
place to meet girls...dumb, pretty girls. How do you argue with that logic?

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

RogerN wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
er.com...

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has
decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over
the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to
overload
the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their
home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab
Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas
tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework
of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and
tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an
Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating
the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181
diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said
Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the
tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from
the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local
population
is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a
package for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration
in
my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where
children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you
characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any
religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would
so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what
Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the
iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion
is
a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world
unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong
faith
in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality
also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever
this "God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any
other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only
different
in that their box for God has no room inside.

As I said, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality
also cannot comprehend atheism. You post clearly illustrates this.

Atheists do not recognize any concept of a "god" since there is not a
shred of supporting evidence for such a concept, so it has no place at
all in our lives. We live our lives in the real world believing in what
is testable and provable.

If there was a shred of credibility to the claims of the promoters of
the various mythologies, they would have found so shred of evidence to
support their claims in the thousands of years they've been trying.
These are the same people who deny evolution, despite the fact that
it's
been thoroughly proven in the years since it was first proposed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJrVR4zyusU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBRKY...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNkxpTIbCIw&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7u01eewDY

Many atheists have became believers, I suppose you consider yourself
smarter
than all of them?

RogerN

Clearly one who can differentiate fantasy from reality is more
intelligent than one who effectively thinks Mickey Mouse is real.

Yes, and you believe in the fantasy that order and complexity comes by
chance. You believe in the fantasy of an effect without a cause.

So, why after all these years did a life form evolve that can not only use
tools, but has enough intelligence to make automated machines to make the
tools, why is there an increase in homosexuality? What evolutionary benefit
does homosexuality have? Homosexuality doesn't appear to have any reason to
be here by the evolutionary world view, but fits perfectly in the fallen
creation world view. Not only that, the Bible plainly tells us that
homosexuality would increase.

Science doesn't have all the answers, it is only useful for scientifically
testable things. Can science tell me when a deer by the road will run out
in front of me, will stand there, or run the other way? Also there are
scientific theories that work one way and behave differently, like quantum
physics where light behaves as a ray and as a wave. Even time elapses
differently depending on the rate of travel. Not all things are as they
appear, science has to keep coming up with theories to explain its
discoveries.

But as a great example of evolution, now we have the population of the
states growing in Republican areas and shrinking in Democratic areas.
Atheists and Democrats think it's OK defy God and to kill unborn babies and
they are the well deserved winners of the Darwin Awards!

RogerN

On 2010-12-23, RogerN wrote:
Clearly one who can differentiate fantasy from reality is more
intelligent than one who effectively thinks Mickey Mouse is real.

Yes, and you believe in the fantasy that order and complexity comes by
chance. You believe in the fantasy of an effect without a cause.

So, why after all these years did a life form evolve that can not only use
tools, but has enough intelligence to make automated machines to make the
tools, why is there an increase in homosexuality? What evolutionary benefit
does homosexuality have? Homosexuality doesn't appear to have any reason to
be here by the evolutionary world view, but fits perfectly in the fallen
creation world view. Not only that, the Bible plainly tells us that
homosexuality would increase.

I do not see why exactly there is an "increase" in homosexuality. I
would like to see some proof of that, in order to convince me that it
is a fact and not a conjecture.

If, in the past, homosexuals were forced to perform a heterosexual
role (marry and have families), then those homosexual "genes" were
passed along to their kids.

If, now, homosexuals can form their own "unions" and are not forced to
procreate, then their "genes" would not be passed along.

My expectation, which I may not live to see, is that the number of
homosexual people would be decreasing in the future.

I would not believe something just because the pastor said it from the
pulpit.

i

"Ignoramus29073" wrote in message
...
On 2010-12-23, RogerN wrote:
Clearly one who can differentiate fantasy from reality is more
intelligent than one who effectively thinks Mickey Mouse is real.

Yes, and you believe in the fantasy that order and complexity comes by
chance. You believe in the fantasy of an effect without a cause.

So, why after all these years did a life form evolve that can not only
use
tools, but has enough intelligence to make automated machines to make the
tools, why is there an increase in homosexuality? What evolutionary
benefit
does homosexuality have? Homosexuality doesn't appear to have any reason
to
be here by the evolutionary world view, but fits perfectly in the fallen
creation world view. Not only that, the Bible plainly tells us that
homosexuality would increase.

I do not see why exactly there is an "increase" in homosexuality. I
would like to see some proof of that, in order to convince me that it
is a fact and not a conjecture.

If, in the past, homosexuals were forced to perform a heterosexual
role (marry and have families), then those homosexual "genes" were
passed along to their kids.

If, now, homosexuals can form their own "unions" and are not forced to
procreate, then their "genes" would not be passed along.

My expectation, which I may not live to see, is that the number of
homosexual people would be decreasing in the future.

I would not believe something just because the pastor said it from the
pulpit.

i

The Homosexuals "came out of the closet" in my lifetime. I don't know the
count of how many were in the closet versus today but in the direction we
are headed if you don't suck cock in the future you'll be labeled
homophobic. When I was young it was about what people did behind closed
doors in private, today they want to do these things openly. Don't take me
wrong, I don't believe homosexuality is as bad as someone cheating on their
spouse or having sex with someone that's married to someone else.

But here's the foretelling of it from a couple thousand years ago, also
sounds like a good description of many atheists (not referring to you Iggy,
you seem tolerant of others beliefs, many atheists aren't)


Romans 1
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave
thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts
were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and
exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a
mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to
sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They
exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created
things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women
exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way
the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with
lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and
received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the
knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do
what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of
wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder,
strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters,
insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they
disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love,
no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do
such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things
but also approve of those who practice them.



RogerN

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news

"Chomp Noamsky" wrote in message
...


"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:27:02 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 21, 8:34 pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
And on the solstice and all ! G no respect.

SW

Let us celebrate Alban Arthan in peace.

A swingin' Saturnalia (or Sol Invictus) to you Romans.

Happy Yule to you folks. Blessed be.


--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart

What belief system has the prettiest girls? I'll join!


It's not the democrats, that's for sure.

Two of my nephews were headed of to a Global Warming rally. I happened to
be visiting my brother that day and asked the nephews why they were
interested in global warming. They said they weren't but it was a great
place to meet girls...dumb, pretty girls. How do you argue with that
logic?


You can't, until they reach their late 20's.

In article , Steve B
wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package
for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever this
"God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different in
that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott

Another difference in atheists is that they must force everyone else to
believe as they do.

When is the last time an atheist knocked on your door on a Saturday
morning and asked you to stop believing in Late Stone Age
Middle-Eastern mythology?

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com

RogerN wrote:

But here's the foretelling of it from a couple thousand years ago, also
sounds like a good description of many atheists (not referring to you Iggy,
you seem tolerant of others beliefs, many atheists aren't)

I'm a lifelong devout atheist, and I'm very tolerant of other beliefs -
so long as the holder of those beliefs are not trying to force them on
myself or others. As long as they try to force their ignorant
superstitions on me and other atheists we will push back - hard.

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/22/2010 12:09 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/22/2010 10:38 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/22/2010 04:59 AM, Steve B wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a package
for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever this
"God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different in
that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott

Another difference in atheists is that they must force everyone else to
believe as they do.

Sounds vaguely familiar, but can't say how .................

You're right! That's another fundamental fundamentalist behavior. Thanks.

Note that I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything -- I'm just
bitching.

I'm sure you actually believe your lies.

The fact remains that no atheists are trying to force private religious
schools to teach evolution, while religious kooks are indeed trying to
force their religion into public schools.

The fact remains that no atheists are going door to door harassing
people and leaving pamphlets of insane babble, while religious kooks are
indeed doing just that.

The fact remains that no atheists are trying to put atheist displays on
public property, while religious kooks continue to try to put their
religious displays on public property.

The fact remains that there's a sub-population of atheists who, when
confronted by the mildest of agnostic comments, start to spew bile.

I defend against the constant attacks of the promoters of ignorance and
superstition. Were there no such attacks you'd never hear from me or any
other atheists.


Please show where I have lied.

I already did, but you've blinded yourself to that fact.


Did I lie when I said that you take the non-existence of God on faith?
No -- it's a hypothesis that has been pared down enough so that it is
unprovable either way, so to disbelieve it must be done with a leap of
faith. However much smaller the leap of faith is to disbelief than the
leap to belief, it's still a leap. I never said it took _much_ faith to
disbelieve in God (or, more generally, the divine), I never even said
that I generally believe in God (I usually don't, but I can't sustain my
faith), all I said is that it takes faith.

In fact, asserting that "Science finds no proof of God, therefore there
is no God" not only makes a leap of faith -- it leaps from a
misunderstanding of science, and a false premise.

Again, you lie. The truth is that there is no scientific evidence to
support any religious mythology, therefore there is no reason whatsoever
to even consider such mythology.

The misunderstanding
is that science proves anything -- it doesn't.

Another myth from the religious kooks. Science most certainly does prove
facts.

Science merely
hypothesizes, then finds evidence to support hypotheses, then given
enough evidence elevates hypotheses to theories. The premise is that
science is infallible, and that it is impossible for something that
science hasn't formed a theory of to exist. Does that mean that quantum
behavior didn't exist before the 20th century, because no one had
hypothesized it yet? Does that mean that Evolution did not happen
before Darwin, because no one had hypothesized it yet? Do I need to go on?

You can go on proving your ignorance of and/or disbelief in science if
you want, I already know you are brainwashed and will never understand
it.


Did I lie when I said your concept of God and the Universe is
inflexible? No -- you're proving the truth of that statement with every
response you make. In fact, I'm pretty sure you'll be doing it some more.

Once again you make the same false assumptions that all brainwashed
religious kooks make. Atheists concept of the universe and their lack of
belief in any mythology is not at all inflexible. If presented with
valid scientific evidence to support mythological claims of the
existence of a "god", atheists will readily consider that possibility.
Until some such valid evidence is presented, we will continue to view
religious mythology as the ridiculous babble that it is.


I contend that your very inflexibility makes you a fundamentalist. Your
need to defend your beliefs by demonizing anyone who questions your
belief system (see above, where you take an objective analysis of your
behavior and turn it into "lies") merely bolsters my assessment. If you
were _really_ sure of yourself, you'd blow me off.

Your constant distortions and lies in the hopes of making a pseudo logic
argument for your unsupportable beliefs shows you for what you are.


Atheists are, by definition* religious fundamentalists. There's a word
for an atheist who's not also a fundamentalist -- that word is
"agnostic". Your need to make me see things your way clearly takes you
out of that category.

Only by your religiously distorted definition, as you have recognized
below.

Agnostics are nothing more than people who have partially freed
themselves from religious brainwashing, but are still stuck in the
belief that there is a "god", but they don't think the particular
mythology that was imposed on them is valid.


I think if you want to be happy with yourself you need to either
recognize and embrace your fundamentalism, so that when you read about
creationists in Texas and mad bombers in Pakistan you can smile with
fellow-feeling, or you need to reexamine just exactly what your beliefs are.

I don't need to reexamine my beliefs, you need to reexamine yours. As I
noted, atheists are perfectly willing to consider the possibility of a
"god" - when and only when there is supporting evidence for such.
Supporting evidence doesn't equate with proof either by the way.


* Well, by _my_ definition. I've stated it, and you are welcome to
_objectively_ analyze it, avoiding all leaps of faith while doing so or
at least identifying them when you do need to use one.

The only leap of faith here is your belief that there must be a "god"
despite any supporting evidence, and you fundamentalist unwillingness to
consider that that assumption may be wrong.

Thank you for proving my points. I'll take my own advice and blow you
off now.

You continue to show your ignorance, it's quite pathetic really.

On 2010-12-23, RogerN wrote:

"Ignoramus29073" wrote in message
...
On 2010-12-23, RogerN wrote:
Clearly one who can differentiate fantasy from reality is more
intelligent than one who effectively thinks Mickey Mouse is real.

Yes, and you believe in the fantasy that order and complexity comes by
chance. You believe in the fantasy of an effect without a cause.

So, why after all these years did a life form evolve that can not only
use
tools, but has enough intelligence to make automated machines to make the
tools, why is there an increase in homosexuality? What evolutionary
benefit
does homosexuality have? Homosexuality doesn't appear to have any reason
to
be here by the evolutionary world view, but fits perfectly in the fallen
creation world view. Not only that, the Bible plainly tells us that
homosexuality would increase.

I do not see why exactly there is an "increase" in homosexuality. I
would like to see some proof of that, in order to convince me that it
is a fact and not a conjecture.

If, in the past, homosexuals were forced to perform a heterosexual
role (marry and have families), then those homosexual "genes" were
passed along to their kids.

If, now, homosexuals can form their own "unions" and are not forced to
procreate, then their "genes" would not be passed along.

My expectation, which I may not live to see, is that the number of
homosexual people would be decreasing in the future.

I would not believe something just because the pastor said it from the
pulpit.

i

The Homosexuals "came out of the closet" in my lifetime. I don't know the
count of how many were in the closet versus today but in the direction we
are headed if you don't suck cock in the future you'll be labeled
homophobic. When I was young it was about what people did behind closed
doors in private, today they want to do these things openly. Don't take me
wrong, I don't believe homosexuality is as bad as someone cheating on their
spouse or having sex with someone that's married to someone else.

You did not really answer what I said.

But here's the foretelling of it from a couple thousand years ago, also
sounds like a good description of many atheists (not referring to you Iggy,
you seem tolerant of others beliefs, many atheists aren't)


Romans 1
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave
thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts
were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and
exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a
mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to
sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They
exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created
things rather than the Creator?who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women
exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way
the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with
lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and
received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the
knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do
what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of
wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder,
strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters,
insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they
disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love,
no mercy. 32 Although they know God?s righteous decree that those who do
such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things
but also approve of those who practice them.

It proves that homosexuals existed back then.

I would like to know what "unnatural relations that women had" they
were referring to? Oral or anal?

i

"Frank J Warner" wrote in message
news:221220101927098873%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon .net...
In article , Steve B
wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On 12/21/2010 03:47 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 02:58 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 12/21/2010 09:38 AM, Chomp Noamsky wrote:
ABU DHABI (AFP) - A luxury hotel in Abu Dhabi which unveiled a
Christmas
tree decorated with jewels valued at 11 million dollars has
decided
to
put the record straight against criticism of having gone over the
top.

The Emirates Palace hotel said it regretted "attempts to overload
the
tradition followed by most hotels in the country," it said, in a
statement quoted in Gulf News on Sunday.

"Putting the Christmas tree... is a tradition meant to share in
celebrating occasions guests hold while they are away from their
home
countries and families," said the hotel in the United Arab
Emirates
capital.

Under a headline of "Trouble over 11 million dollar Christmas
tree,"
Gulf News said the hotel stressed this was "within the framework
of
the
UAE's policy which is based on the values of openness and
tolerance."

Emirates Palace stressed that the jewels were on loan from an Abu
Dhabi
gallery which had paid all the costs of making and decorating the
tree.
The jewels would be recovered by their owner at the end of the
festive
season.

"The hotel is just a venue for exhibiting the tree," it said.

The tree, inaugurated on Wednesday, holds a total of 181 diamonds,
pearls, emeralds, sapphires and other precious stones, said
Khalifa
Khouri, owner of Style Gallery which provided the jewellery.

Emirates Palace hotel general manager Hans Olbertz said the tree,
which
he described as the "most expensive Christmas tree ever," will
probably
be an entry into the Guinness book of world records.

The 13-metre (40-foot) faux evergreen, located in the gold
leaf-bedecked
rotunda of the hotel, is not the first extravagant offering from
the
three-billion-dollar Emirates Palace.

The hotel in the oil-rich Gulf emirate where the local population
is
Muslim, bills itself as a seven-star establishment and has a
package
for
a week-long stay priced at one million dollars.

The package comes with a personal butler and a chauffeur-driven
Maybach
luxury car as well as a private jet available for trips to other
countries in the region.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101219...ristmasoffbeat

As someone who considers the life of Jesus to be an inspiration in
my
life, and who is appalled at the idea of celebrating his birth by
ostentatiously displaying exorbitant wealth in a world where
children
are dying of hunger, I have only one response to you characterizing
such
objections as coming from atheists:

Shame.

Shame on you.

Shame on you, and every other person in the world, of any religion,
who
tries to use the cloak of religion to gain political power.

Shame on you, and every other such person everywhere, who would so
warp
religion for your own personal gain.

Shame.

Shame.

Shame.

Go jump in a hole, and don't come out until you understand what
Christ
was _really_ about.


As a life long devout atheist who was blessed to be born with the
insight to see religion for the age old control game it is and the
iron
will to never be coerced by anyone, I'll say to you that religion is
a
cancer on civilization and will ultimately destroy the world unless
people loose their ignorant superstitions and come to terms with
reality.

How ironic, then, that to be a devout atheist requires a strong faith
in
an unproven assumption about how the universe is put together.

Sadly, those who cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality also
cannot comprehend atheism.

Sadly, true atheists are religious fundamentalists who can't see
themselves in a mirror.

My _reality_ is that one can't know -- the God hypothesis is cleverly
constructed to be beyond proof. So I live my life consistent with the
assumption that God exists, that God doesn't exist, and that whatever
this
"God" thing is would be beyond my comprehension anyway.

Fundamentalists, whether atheist, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or any
other
stripe, can't stay sane without putting God in a box of their own
fantasizing, and shaped to their desires -- atheists are only different
in
that their box for God has no room inside.

--

Tim Wescott

Another difference in atheists is that they must force everyone else to
believe as they do.

When is the last time an atheist knocked on your door on a Saturday
morning and asked you to stop believing in Late Stone Age
Middle-Eastern mythology?


You haven't been over to misc.survivalism to meet Curls, our resident gay
atheist libtard, have you?

Didn't think so....

"Pete C." wrote:

No atheists are going door to door harassing people and leaving leaflets
of insanity. No atheists are going around trying to force private
religious schools to teach the facts of evolution.


No, but they use computers to spread their crap, these days. What
kind of leaflet would they leave? Blank paper?


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

"Chomp Noamsky" wrote in message
...


"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news

"Chomp Noamsky" wrote in message
...


"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:27:02 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 21, 8:34 pm, Sunworshipper wrote:
And on the solstice and all ! G no respect.

SW

Let us celebrate Alban Arthan in peace.

A swingin' Saturnalia (or Sol Invictus) to you Romans.

Happy Yule to you folks. Blessed be.


--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart

What belief system has the prettiest girls? I'll join!


It's not the democrats, that's for sure.

Two of my nephews were headed of to a Global Warming rally. I happened
to be visiting my brother that day and asked the nephews why they were
interested in global warming. They said they weren't but it was a great
place to meet girls...dumb, pretty girls. How do you argue with that
logic?


You can't, until they reach their late 20's.

One now has a PhD in Theology and philosophy - a teacher, the other is an
Army Ranger with a degree in Russian and Chinese...good boys!

The Tunguska Event: Eyewitness Account
Shaman Vasilii Dzhenkoul, Shanyagir Clan

Night Chant[1]

The god comes, the god comes.
The earth trembles in fear at the coming of Ogdy.
The earth rises and falls beneath my feet, like waves of water.
My place of purification is overthrown, my lodgepoles topple.
The god comes.

The god calls out.
Blinding-bright, his tongue lashes the sky.
His roar booms off the hills, the heavens ring with it.
Ogdy is calling his avatar from the Lower World.
The earth at my feet tears open at the touch of his fiery tongue.
The god calls out.

Heeding the god’s call, the avatar arises.
Night-walker, Spawn of Darkness, Beast of Evil Heart,
From the Lower World he arises.
Insatiable, All-devouring,
As wild dogs tearing at entrails of their kill,
Heeding the god’s call, the avatar arises.

— translated by Dieter Hoffman


Hey, Ig. Your into math. This has been bugging me for some time.

If you have 500 answers about an imagined next dimension and each one
is different, but all are true, doesn't that cancel them all out?

I find it interesting that people can be so animate in their beliefs
just cause they where indoctrinated into it and have a group around
them that believe the same. Ever notice how many different Christian
churches there are? If they were born in India they wouldn't eat
hamburgers and think Christians are wrong. God doesn't like all the
other people of the earth. God sure is terrible at communication for
coming up with the whole universe, just for one group to be saved for
the other dimension. I think he really liked the dinosaur more, 150
million years for them , but only 5 million for the naked ape, and
only the last 2,000 yrs are the ones worth anything. All the other
petri dishes get sterilized.

Offensive Alert

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/lo...s_origins.html


It's way past theory it is a fact as this girl's dad said. Three
generations of studying and research is just plain heresy to them.
I think it is because they can't handle the TRUTH. No cozy over seeing
father figure and no blissful 4th dimension ( I don't count time as a
dimension.). There is lots of evidence that people believed in an
after life way before any of the religions arrived. It must be natural
when intelligence reaches a certain level. But God only likes the
latest believers ! Yeah, right.

I don't think people have really spent time really thinking about who
we are, and just default to their indoctrination. I also find that the
religious are the one's that are "intolerant". Just try to explain
the facts to one, they immediately start saying no no no. That's not
tolerance. They shut down, put their hands over their ears ,and start
humming a tune or maybe start praying that they won't go to hell for
someone second guessing god so close to them and defiling their tidy
view of life.

If someone says milk works great for cutting copper on here do most
immediately stop listening?

SW

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

No atheists are going door to door harassing people and leaving leaflets
of insanity. No atheists are going around trying to force private
religious schools to teach the facts of evolution.

No, but they use computers to spread their crap, these days. What
kind of leaflet would they leave? Blank paper?

The purveyors of religious mythology use the products of the science
they deny to try to spread their insanity.

You of course are stuck with yet another of the lies from your religious
kooks - the ridiculous claim that atheists don't believe in anything -
nothing could be further from the truth. Atheists believe in the real
world and the science that investigates and proves how that real world
works. We have no need for the lies, myths and pseudo logic babble of
religious mythology.

"Pete C." wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

No atheists are going door to door harassing people and leaving leaflets
of insanity. No atheists are going around trying to force private
religious schools to teach the facts of evolution.

No, but they use computers to spread their crap, these days. What
kind of leaflet would they leave? Blank paper?

The purveyors of religious mythology use the products of the science
they deny to try to spread their insanity.

You of course are stuck with yet another of the lies from your religious
kooks - the ridiculous claim that atheists don't believe in anything -
nothing could be further from the truth. Atheists believe in the real
world and the science that investigates and proves how that real world
works. We have no need for the lies, myths and pseudo logic babble of
religious mythology.


And you have to annoy everyone you meet. You remind me of Foghorn
Leghorn, going on and on about only having to be told once to shut up.
I bet you believe in Global Warming, too.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!