FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:42 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd


Hey Lloyd.

I've mentioned here before that a lathe I have works that way. The
only thing 3 phase is the spindle motor, and the other stuff is single
phase but uses the different three-phase legs, sort of balanced out .

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Brian Lawson fired this volley in
:

I've mentioned here before that a lathe I have works that way. The
only thing 3 phase is the spindle motor, and the other stuff is single
phase but uses the different three-phase legs, sort of balanced out .

All you need to be sure of is that the three phases combined don't draw
more current than the single-phase leg will have to deliver.

In my case the _total_ draw is under 20 amps at 240VAC, so it's not much
of a worry.

The VFD is from Motortronics. The ME203 model, good for 3hp. My spindle
is 2HP.

I'm not trying to speed-control with the VFD. That's done by variable-
pitch sheaves in the headstock. All I had to do was build a relay board
that would accept the same voltage as the motor contactors (24VDC), that
would isolate the VFD from the drive enables. Then I disconnected the
motor leads from the existing contactors, and routed them to the VFD.

LLoyd

On 2010-11-26, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd

Woohoo!

How is it working for you, is it convenient to program?

i
i

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:42 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd

Very well done!!

Though..I moved my RPC outside the shop and around the corner and can
barely hear the thing even if the shop is quiet.

But you did very well! Bravo!

Gunner

--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Ignoramus8184 fired this volley in
:


How is it working for you, is it convenient to program?

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts files or
tool defs. But it works. Until I get past some pretty big contracts, I
just don't have the time to take it down for 6 months to convert over to
EMC^2.

LLoyd

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Though..I moved my RPC outside the shop and around the corner and can
barely hear the thing even if the shop is quiet.


I remember you saying that, and I strategized how to accomplish it in my
shop. But "outside the shop" really means "outdoors" for me, and I figured
my time was better spent converting the machine (which only took about six
hours) that building "huts" to shield outdoor equipment.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts
files or tool defs. But it works.

I should have added, Iggy, that there are _significant_ benefits to
converting this machine.

First of all, it's possible to convert it while using the existing drive
electronics. Although one might not get _modern_ precision from the
feeds, it does pretty nice work already.

Second, the machine lacks some stuff we think of as "normal" to automatic
equipment. There is no G-code to turn the spindle on and off, or change
speed. There are no codes associated with the coolant systems.

And nothing ever displays on the screen, except for g-codes -- there's no
graphical representation of the job, tool selections, path depictions,
etc.

So, I'm looking forward to a conversion. However, the old '68 Buick
still gets me to the grocery store, just without any built-in GPS.

LLoyd

On 2010-11-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus8184 fired this volley in
:


How is it working for you, is it convenient to program?

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts files or
tool defs. But it works. Until I get past some pretty big contracts, I
just don't have the time to take it down for 6 months to convert over to
EMC^2.

That's really great that it works, everything has limitations,
congrats on having a great machine.

On 2010-11-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts
files or tool defs. But it works.

I should have added, Iggy, that there are _significant_ benefits to
converting this machine.

First of all, it's possible to convert it while using the existing drive
electronics. Although one might not get _modern_ precision from the
feeds, it does pretty nice work already.

If your machine is like mine, which I suspect (I know that it looks a
little different with the control on the head), it is a very high
grade, precision high performance machine, as far as knee mills go.

Easily capable of 0.001" accuracy.

Second, the machine lacks some stuff we think of as "normal" to automatic
equipment. There is no G-code to turn the spindle on and off, or change
speed. There are no codes associated with the coolant systems.

Personally, I think that it is nice to control coolant, but not really
essential. I do not really need to turn off coolant for some parts of
the job. All I do it turn everything off when the job is complete,
that is nice.

Controlling the spindle is slightly more important, as it lets me
change tools. But, I suppose, I could turn off the spindle manually.

And nothing ever displays on the screen, except for g-codes -- there's no
graphical representation of the job, tool selections, path depictions,
etc.

Yes, that's a minus, at least to a novice like me, it helps to see the
toolpath.

So, I'm looking forward to a conversion. However, the old '68 Buick
still gets me to the grocery store, just without any built-in GPS.

Exactly.

i

On 2010-11-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Though..I moved my RPC outside the shop and around the corner and can
barely hear the thing even if the shop is quiet.


I remember you saying that, and I strategized how to accomplish it in my
shop. But "outside the shop" really means "outdoors" for me, and I figured
my time was better spent converting the machine (which only took about six
hours) that building "huts" to shield outdoor equipment.

You will be far better off with a VFD, for many reasons.

i

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd

The thing to keep in mind with any of these machines, is that outside of
motors, not much of anything really uses three phase power. VFDs are
pretty cheap these days so the motors are easy to deal with, even stuff
like coolant pump motors can go on small basic VFDs. Occasionally you
have to rebuild a 3 phase AC to DC power supply, but often you just find
several separate power supplies with single phase inputs.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:29:07 -0600, Ignoramus18541
wrote:

snip
Controlling the spindle is slightly more important, as it lets me
change tools. But, I suppose, I could turn off the spindle manually.

Personally, I would be leery of changing a tool manually under a
program stop. I'd much prefer to turn it off manually. I wouldn't
want my hands on the spindle without being certain it wasn't going to
move. Or are you using a tool changer?

Mind you, that's in theory. I have no cnc equipment.

Pete Keillor

snip
i

On 2010-11-27, Pete C. wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd

The thing to keep in mind with any of these machines, is that outside of
motors, not much of anything really uses three phase power. VFDs are
pretty cheap these days so the motors are easy to deal with, even stuff
like coolant pump motors can go on small basic VFDs. Occasionally you
have to rebuild a 3 phase AC to DC power supply, but often you just find
several separate power supplies with single phase inputs.

Sadly, the old control on my mill was very dependent on three
phase. The new one, is all single phase of course.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts
files or tool defs. But it works.

I should have added, Iggy, that there are _significant_ benefits to
converting this machine.

First of all, it's possible to convert it while using the existing drive
electronics. Although one might not get _modern_ precision from the
feeds, it does pretty nice work already.

Second, the machine lacks some stuff we think of as "normal" to automatic
equipment. There is no G-code to turn the spindle on and off, or change
speed. There are no codes associated with the coolant systems.

And nothing ever displays on the screen, except for g-codes -- there's no
graphical representation of the job, tool selections, path depictions,
etc.

So, I'm looking forward to a conversion. However, the old '68 Buick
still gets me to the grocery store, just without any built-in GPS.

LLoyd

One possibility I thought of doing with my Anilam Bridgeport mill. You
could put a limit switch on the table so that when the machine is in "Park"
or "Tool Change" position it kills the power to spindle and turns off the
coolant. As soon as the program runs and moves it, the spindle turns on and
the coolant, if selected, comes on. I thought of that after finding
additional I/O for my Crusader II control was pretty high. I also thought
the same thing could be done if I had an Indexer that worked like Iggy's,
have the table move out of the normal tool path to hit the switch and cause
an index. There are a few poor folk ways to get around the additional I/O
unless you have to move the total stroke on all axis.

RogerN

On 2010-11-27, RogerN wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts
files or tool defs. But it works.

I should have added, Iggy, that there are _significant_ benefits to
converting this machine.

First of all, it's possible to convert it while using the existing drive
electronics. Although one might not get _modern_ precision from the
feeds, it does pretty nice work already.

Second, the machine lacks some stuff we think of as "normal" to automatic
equipment. There is no G-code to turn the spindle on and off, or change
speed. There are no codes associated with the coolant systems.

And nothing ever displays on the screen, except for g-codes -- there's no
graphical representation of the job, tool selections, path depictions,
etc.

So, I'm looking forward to a conversion. However, the old '68 Buick
still gets me to the grocery store, just without any built-in GPS.

LLoyd

One possibility I thought of doing with my Anilam Bridgeport mill. You
could put a limit switch on the table so that when the machine is in "Park"
or "Tool Change" position it kills the power to spindle and turns off the
coolant. As soon as the program runs and moves it, the spindle turns on and
the coolant, if selected, comes on. I thought of that after finding
additional I/O for my Crusader II control was pretty high. I also thought
the same thing could be done if I had an Indexer that worked like Iggy's,
have the table move out of the normal tool path to hit the switch and cause
an index. There are a few poor folk ways to get around the additional I/O
unless you have to move the total stroke on all axis.

Roger, if I were you I would retrofit your mill and enjoy life to the
fullest. You may even be able to use one PC as a control of both
machines, though probably you will not be able to run both at the same
time.

i

"RogerN" fired this volley in
:

You
could put a limit switch on the table so that when the machine is in
"Park" or "Tool Change" position it kills the power to spindle and
turns off the coolant. As soon as the program runs and moves it, the
spindle turns on and the coolant, if selected, comes on.

The R2E4 is already set up in the control firmware to kill the spindle if
the machine hits any of the limit stops (all in software, no switches).
However, the spindle won't turn back on when the table is moved from the
limits -- has to be done manually.

The spindle is _logic_ controlled, not "electrically", so there's no
reason why a spindle control would be a big project -- but not on the
existing control system. I'm not ready to disassemble and reassemble the
68K software that runs it. I'd rather just jump to EMC^2 in one step.

LLoyd

On 2010-11-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"RogerN" fired this volley in
:

You
could put a limit switch on the table so that when the machine is in
"Park" or "Tool Change" position it kills the power to spindle and
turns off the coolant. As soon as the program runs and moves it, the
spindle turns on and the coolant, if selected, comes on.

The R2E4 is already set up in the control firmware to kill the spindle if
the machine hits any of the limit stops (all in software, no switches).
However, the spindle won't turn back on when the table is moved from the
limits -- has to be done manually.

The spindle is _logic_ controlled, not "electrically", so there's no
reason why a spindle control would be a big project -- but not on the
existing control system. I'm not ready to disassemble and reassemble the
68K software that runs it. I'd rather just jump to EMC^2 in one step.

LLoyd

Since your current control is working, I would personally expect that
selling it will provide you with enough money for EMC conversion (PC
and drivers).

i

Pete Keillor wrote:

Controlling the spindle is slightly more important, as it lets me
change tools. But, I suppose, I could turn off the spindle manually.

Personally, I would be leery of changing a tool manually under a
program stop. I'd much prefer to turn it off manually. I wouldn't
want my hands on the spindle without being certain it wasn't going to
move. Or are you using a tool changer?

I like your thinking. On enclosed machines the doors have interlock switches but these
are open machines. I'd really hate to be holding on to a cutter or a draw bar wrench and
have the spindle power up.

I've grown to hate touch screens overloaded with buttons. Some are too sensitive and the
action you think you are selecting may not be what you get. This with a non cnc
appplication with a lot of lots of things that can get tripped in manual.


Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:29:07 -0600, Ignoramus18541
wrote:

If your machine is like mine, which I suspect (I know that it looks a
little different with the control on the head), it is a very high
grade, precision high performance machine, as far as knee mills go.

Easily capable of 0.001" accuracy.

Crom..I hope so. Or did you drop a zero?


--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
news
Crom..I hope so. Or did you drop a zero?

Specs show it good to a tenth.

LLoyd

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
news
Crom..I hope so. Or did you drop a zero?

Oh.. forgot to mention this -- this was an educational machine, and has a
total of about 500 hours on it. The frosting still shows on ALL the ways,
and the spindle ram doesn't have a single spot where the original grinding
marks are worn away.

LLoyd

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 15:24:04 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
news
Crom..I hope so. Or did you drop a zero?

Specs show it good to a tenth.

LLoyd

so that would be .0001

Much better..much much better


Gunner

--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 15:25:15 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
news
Crom..I hope so. Or did you drop a zero?

Oh.. forgot to mention this -- this was an educational machine, and has a
total of about 500 hours on it. The frosting still shows on ALL the ways,
and the spindle ram doesn't have a single spot where the original grinding
marks are worn away.

LLoyd


OOOOOOHHHH!!! NICE!!! You did well!!!


--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On 2010-11-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
news
Crom..I hope so. Or did you drop a zero?

Oh.. forgot to mention this -- this was an educational machine, and has a
total of about 500 hours on it. The frosting still shows on ALL the ways,
and the spindle ram doesn't have a single spot where the original grinding
marks are worn away.

This is really a winner, then. You have a beautiful piece.

i

Ignoramus18541 fired this volley in
:

This is really a winner, then. You have a beautiful piece.

Mechanically, it is nearly perfect. Cosmetically, it's a little rough.
Most of the machine's pretty nice, but the stuff from knee level (mine,
not the machine's) down looks like it got in a hail storm but with rocks
instead of ice. I don't know exactly what could beat it up that badly
below-level like that. Everything inside is spiffy-clean.

The only REAL ugly thing is that at one time or another the decimal point
key failed. It's a TI-style "dome switch" membrane covered keyboard, and
not repairable unless you replace the entire switch sheet. So whoever
fixed it GLUED another dome switch onto the _outside_ of the decimal key,
and routed the wires down across the face of the panel under some tape to
disguise the wire. It looks stupid and carelessly done, but it works. I
know I can't fix the membrane, but I might find a better-looking
miniature switch to fasten in place of the decimal point.

It probably _wouldn't_ be a good idea to drill through the panel for lead
wires -- you never know where the other switches' runs go.

I may eventually use the machine to cut a bezel that matches the switch
layout, and go with some better switches for the whole thing.


LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

Ignoramus18541 fired this volley in
:

This is really a winner, then. You have a beautiful piece.

Mechanically, it is nearly perfect. Cosmetically, it's a little rough.
Most of the machine's pretty nice, but the stuff from knee level (mine,
not the machine's) down looks like it got in a hail storm but with rocks
instead of ice. I don't know exactly what could beat it up that badly
below-level like that. Everything inside is spiffy-clean.

The only REAL ugly thing is that at one time or another the decimal point
key failed. It's a TI-style "dome switch" membrane covered keyboard, and
not repairable unless you replace the entire switch sheet. So whoever
fixed it GLUED another dome switch onto the _outside_ of the decimal key,
and routed the wires down across the face of the panel under some tape to
disguise the wire. It looks stupid and carelessly done, but it works. I
know I can't fix the membrane, but I might find a better-looking
miniature switch to fasten in place of the decimal point.

It probably _wouldn't_ be a good idea to drill through the panel for lead
wires -- you never know where the other switches' runs go.

I may eventually use the machine to cut a bezel that matches the switch
layout, and go with some better switches for the whole thing.

LLoyd

For the amount of effort it would take to rework the existing keypad,
you'd have a good start at a retrofit with a modern and more capable
control like Mach3 or EMC2.

"Pete C." fired this volley in news:4cf1a86a$0$1028
:

For the amount of effort it would take to rework the existing keypad,
you'd have a good start at a retrofit with a modern and more capable
control like Mach3 or EMC2.

Yup... that's why I'm not too concerned about the "ugly-key". If it gets
TOO ugly to me, I'll cover it up with some pretty vinyl tape.

G
LLoyd

On 2010-11-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus18541 fired this volley in
:

This is really a winner, then. You have a beautiful piece.

Mechanically, it is nearly perfect. Cosmetically, it's a little rough.
Most of the machine's pretty nice, but the stuff from knee level (mine,
not the machine's) down looks like it got in a hail storm but with rocks
instead of ice. I don't know exactly what could beat it up that badly
below-level like that. Everything inside is spiffy-clean.

The only REAL ugly thing is that at one time or another the decimal point
key failed. It's a TI-style "dome switch" membrane covered keyboard, and
not repairable unless you replace the entire switch sheet. So whoever
fixed it GLUED another dome switch onto the _outside_ of the decimal key,
and routed the wires down across the face of the panel under some tape to
disguise the wire. It looks stupid and carelessly done, but it works. I
know I can't fix the membrane, but I might find a better-looking
miniature switch to fasten in place of the decimal point.

It probably _wouldn't_ be a good idea to drill through the panel for lead
wires -- you never know where the other switches' runs go.

I may eventually use the machine to cut a bezel that matches the switch
layout, and go with some better switches for the whole thing.

Sounds great. This sort of iron is far and beyond cheap imitations
or beat up VMCs, so it has a lot of potential.

Can you watch youtube movies on your milling machine's control while
it is milling metal? ;-)

i

On 2010-11-28, Pete C. wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

Ignoramus18541 fired this volley in
:

This is really a winner, then. You have a beautiful piece.

Mechanically, it is nearly perfect. Cosmetically, it's a little rough.
Most of the machine's pretty nice, but the stuff from knee level (mine,
not the machine's) down looks like it got in a hail storm but with rocks
instead of ice. I don't know exactly what could beat it up that badly
below-level like that. Everything inside is spiffy-clean.

The only REAL ugly thing is that at one time or another the decimal point
key failed. It's a TI-style "dome switch" membrane covered keyboard, and
not repairable unless you replace the entire switch sheet. So whoever
fixed it GLUED another dome switch onto the _outside_ of the decimal key,
and routed the wires down across the face of the panel under some tape to
disguise the wire. It looks stupid and carelessly done, but it works. I
know I can't fix the membrane, but I might find a better-looking
miniature switch to fasten in place of the decimal point.

It probably _wouldn't_ be a good idea to drill through the panel for lead
wires -- you never know where the other switches' runs go.

I may eventually use the machine to cut a bezel that matches the switch
layout, and go with some better switches for the whole thing.

LLoyd

For the amount of effort it would take to rework the existing keypad,
you'd have a good start at a retrofit with a modern and more capable
control like Mach3 or EMC2.

My thinking exactly. The control will handily pay for any new hardware
that is needed, I think, even including a PC. Especially if you take a
video of it operating. There is someone out there, with an R2E4 with a
dead control, desperate to buy it at any price.

Your expenses will be roughly:

1) A PC. How much you want to spend depends on you. $150 and up will
get you a used or new PC. I started with a used POS that I had laying
around, which worked fine, but later upgraded to a PC that I built
that cost me $500. On this new one, watching youtube movies or doing
whatever else I want, is possible while the mill is operating. Because
EMC2 is locked to one of the cores, and memory, it does not care how
busy is the other core.

2) DC Servo drives. About $100 for three.

3) Miscellaneous wires, terminals, DIN terminals etc. $100.

4) A monitor. 15-17 inch LCD will work very well. I got one from junk
pile at work, it was missing a stand, which was very fine with me.

5) Possibly you may need encoders or encoder converters. ???$$$
New encoders from US Digital are not very expensive.

6) Networking gear, various PC cables

The retrofit process took me about 300 hours, but this is because I
knew nothing when I started. So it was a lot of asking, reading,
etc. If I had to do it again, on an identical machine, I would say it
would take me 50 hours of work to complete.

i

On 2010-11-27, Wes wrote:
Pete Keillor wrote:

Controlling the spindle is slightly more important, as it lets me
change tools. But, I suppose, I could turn off the spindle manually.

Personally, I would be leery of changing a tool manually under a
program stop. I'd much prefer to turn it off manually. I wouldn't
want my hands on the spindle without being certain it wasn't going to
move. Or are you using a tool changer?

I like your thinking. On enclosed machines the doors have interlock switches but these
are open machines. I'd really hate to be holding on to a cutter or a draw bar wrench and
have the spindle power up.

Well ... at least Iggy's machine has a quick-change spindle
which holds NTMB 30 tool holders. No drawbar, Just slap the tool into
the spindle and use a notch spanner wrench to tighten (and to loosen
when removing a tool prior to installing the new one). And while using
the wrench, your other hand is leaning on the spindle brake. I don't
know whether the spindle motor can override the brake.

But add a switch in series with the run/stop command line to the
spindle's VFD, and set it up so removal of the wrench will disable the
spindle motor until the wrench is returned to its storage pocket.

IIRC, with the original BOSS-3 Bridgeport -- the stop for a tool
change lights a red light in a pushbutton deep in a guard, and you have
to push that button to re-enable the spindle. (This was with a
forward/reverse contactor, not a VFD back in those days. :-)

I've grown to hate touch screens overloaded with buttons. Some are too sensitive and the
action you think you are selecting may not be what you get. This with a non cnc
appplication with a lot of lots of things that can get tripped in manual.

:-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Ignoramus18541 fired this volley in
:

Can you watch youtube movies on your milling machine's control while
it is milling metal? ;-)

Sure! I can mix video into the monitor, and watch them in black and green!

LLoyd

On 2010-11-28, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus18541 fired this volley in
:

Can you watch youtube movies on your milling machine's control while
it is milling metal? ;-)

Sure! I can mix video into the monitor, and watch them in black and green!


"Skateboarding dog in infrared"

On 2010-11-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:29:07 -0600, Ignoramus18541
wrote:

If your machine is like mine, which I suspect (I know that it looks a
little different with the control on the head), it is a very high
grade, precision high performance machine, as far as knee mills go.

Easily capable of 0.001" accuracy.

Crom..I hope so. Or did you drop a zero?

The BOSS-3 (and through at least the BOSS-5) used stepper motors
which limited the resolution to 0.001". With the servo motors, and the
encoders which Iggy has used, he may get resolution down to 0.0001", but
who knows the actual precision with worn ball screws and nuts and the
motion having to go through timing belts from the axis motors to the
leadscrews.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Ignoramus18541 fired this volley in
:

If I had to do it again, on an identical machine, I would say it
would take me 50 hours of work to complete.

Yeah, I know about that learning curve. I've had the R2E4 for quite a
while, and always intended to convert it over to single-phase. But I
stayed in that "arm waving" mode all this time, studying skims, reading
about theory of operation, putting up with the RPC noise.

When I finally did it, it was just a few short hours from first mounting
hole to working system. Everything except the spindle motor direction
was right on the first try, and that just took swapping two of the VFD
phases to set right.

LLoyd

"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in
:

I don't
know whether the spindle motor can override the brake.


It can. I forgot to re-hook up the air supply the other day after making
some changes on the machine, and still started the spindle.

LLoyd

"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in
:

But add a switch in series with the run/stop command line to the
spindle's VFD, and set it up so removal of the wrench will disable the
spindle motor until the wrench is returned to its storage pocket.


Hell! That's actually a pretty smart idea! G

LLoyd

On 2010-11-28, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-11-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:29:07 -0600, Ignoramus18541
wrote:

If your machine is like mine, which I suspect (I know that it looks a
little different with the control on the head), it is a very high
grade, precision high performance machine, as far as knee mills go.

Easily capable of 0.001" accuracy.

Crom..I hope so. Or did you drop a zero?

The BOSS-3 (and through at least the BOSS-5) used stepper motors
which limited the resolution to 0.001". With the servo motors, and the
encoders which Iggy has used, he may get resolution down to 0.0001", but
who knows the actual precision with worn ball screws and nuts and the
motion having to go through timing belts from the axis motors to the
leadscrews.

See a specs page from my manual.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Brid...Mill/specs.jpg

``Positioning accuracy +/- 0.0005".''

i

On 2010-11-28, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus18541 fired this volley in
:

If I had to do it again, on an identical machine, I would say it
would take me 50 hours of work to complete.

Yeah, I know about that learning curve. I've had the R2E4 for quite a
while, and always intended to convert it over to single-phase. But I
stayed in that "arm waving" mode all this time, studying skims, reading
about theory of operation, putting up with the RPC noise.

When I finally did it, it was just a few short hours from first mounting
hole to working system. Everything except the spindle motor direction
was right on the first try, and that just took swapping two of the VFD
phases to set right.

Yep. It would only be fair to count the "learning" hours properly.

I did lots of things wrong, mostly small things, and had to redo a few
things. At this time in my life, I know full well that redoing and
backing out of mistakes, is an essential part of any project.

i

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"RogerN" fired this volley in
:

You
could put a limit switch on the table so that when the machine is in
"Park" or "Tool Change" position it kills the power to spindle and
turns off the coolant. As soon as the program runs and moves it, the
spindle turns on and the coolant, if selected, comes on.

The R2E4 is already set up in the control firmware to kill the spindle if
the machine hits any of the limit stops (all in software, no switches).
However, the spindle won't turn back on when the table is moved from the
limits -- has to be done manually.

The spindle is _logic_ controlled, not "electrically", so there's no
reason why a spindle control would be a big project -- but not on the
existing control system. I'm not ready to disassemble and reassemble the
68K software that runs it. I'd rather just jump to EMC^2 in one step.

LLoyd

Sorry I didn't clarify. I was referring to an additional limit switch
provided by the user that would turn on contactors when deactivated and turn
the contactors back off when activated. Then you position this limit
switch, perhaps with magnets, so that it is activated when the machine is at
the park, tool change, or stop position. The contacts from the contactor or
relay could turn on the run fwd input to the drive if you set it up so the
contact had to be maintained to run the drive. Additional contacts could be
used to operate a coolant motor or solenoid air valve for mist coolant.

RogerN