FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:42 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd


Hey Lloyd.

I've mentioned here before that a lathe I have works that way. The
only thing 3 phase is the spindle motor, and the other stuff is single
phase but uses the different three-phase legs, sort of balanced out .

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Brian Lawson fired this volley in
:

I've mentioned here before that a lathe I have works that way. The
only thing 3 phase is the spindle motor, and the other stuff is single
phase but uses the different three-phase legs, sort of balanced out .

All you need to be sure of is that the three phases combined don't draw
more current than the single-phase leg will have to deliver.

In my case the _total_ draw is under 20 amps at 240VAC, so it's not much
of a worry.

The VFD is from Motortronics. The ME203 model, good for 3hp. My spindle
is 2HP.

I'm not trying to speed-control with the VFD. That's done by variable-
pitch sheaves in the headstock. All I had to do was build a relay board
that would accept the same voltage as the motor contactors (24VDC), that
would isolate the VFD from the drive enables. Then I disconnected the
motor leads from the existing contactors, and routed them to the VFD.

LLoyd

On 2010-11-26, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd

Woohoo!

How is it working for you, is it convenient to program?

i
i

Ignoramus8184 fired this volley in
:


How is it working for you, is it convenient to program?

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts files or
tool defs. But it works. Until I get past some pretty big contracts, I
just don't have the time to take it down for 6 months to convert over to
EMC^2.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts
files or tool defs. But it works.

I should have added, Iggy, that there are _significant_ benefits to
converting this machine.

First of all, it's possible to convert it while using the existing drive
electronics. Although one might not get _modern_ precision from the
feeds, it does pretty nice work already.

Second, the machine lacks some stuff we think of as "normal" to automatic
equipment. There is no G-code to turn the spindle on and off, or change
speed. There are no codes associated with the coolant systems.

And nothing ever displays on the screen, except for g-codes -- there's no
graphical representation of the job, tool selections, path depictions,
etc.

So, I'm looking forward to a conversion. However, the old '68 Buick
still gets me to the grocery store, just without any built-in GPS.

LLoyd

On 2010-11-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts
files or tool defs. But it works.

I should have added, Iggy, that there are _significant_ benefits to
converting this machine.

First of all, it's possible to convert it while using the existing drive
electronics. Although one might not get _modern_ precision from the
feeds, it does pretty nice work already.

If your machine is like mine, which I suspect (I know that it looks a
little different with the control on the head), it is a very high
grade, precision high performance machine, as far as knee mills go.

Easily capable of 0.001" accuracy.

Second, the machine lacks some stuff we think of as "normal" to automatic
equipment. There is no G-code to turn the spindle on and off, or change
speed. There are no codes associated with the coolant systems.

Personally, I think that it is nice to control coolant, but not really
essential. I do not really need to turn off coolant for some parts of
the job. All I do it turn everything off when the job is complete,
that is nice.

Controlling the spindle is slightly more important, as it lets me
change tools. But, I suppose, I could turn off the spindle manually.

And nothing ever displays on the screen, except for g-codes -- there's no
graphical representation of the job, tool selections, path depictions,
etc.

Yes, that's a minus, at least to a novice like me, it helps to see the
toolpath.

So, I'm looking forward to a conversion. However, the old '68 Buick
still gets me to the grocery store, just without any built-in GPS.

Exactly.

i

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:29:07 -0600, Ignoramus18541
wrote:

snip
Controlling the spindle is slightly more important, as it lets me
change tools. But, I suppose, I could turn off the spindle manually.

Personally, I would be leery of changing a tool manually under a
program stop. I'd much prefer to turn it off manually. I wouldn't
want my hands on the spindle without being certain it wasn't going to
move. Or are you using a tool changer?

Mind you, that's in theory. I have no cnc equipment.

Pete Keillor

snip
i

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:29:07 -0600, Ignoramus18541
wrote:

If your machine is like mine, which I suspect (I know that it looks a
little different with the control on the head), it is a very high
grade, precision high performance machine, as far as knee mills go.

Easily capable of 0.001" accuracy.

Crom..I hope so. Or did you drop a zero?


--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts
files or tool defs. But it works.

I should have added, Iggy, that there are _significant_ benefits to
converting this machine.

First of all, it's possible to convert it while using the existing drive
electronics. Although one might not get _modern_ precision from the
feeds, it does pretty nice work already.

Second, the machine lacks some stuff we think of as "normal" to automatic
equipment. There is no G-code to turn the spindle on and off, or change
speed. There are no codes associated with the coolant systems.

And nothing ever displays on the screen, except for g-codes -- there's no
graphical representation of the job, tool selections, path depictions,
etc.

So, I'm looking forward to a conversion. However, the old '68 Buick
still gets me to the grocery store, just without any built-in GPS.

LLoyd

One possibility I thought of doing with my Anilam Bridgeport mill. You
could put a limit switch on the table so that when the machine is in "Park"
or "Tool Change" position it kills the power to spindle and turns off the
coolant. As soon as the program runs and moves it, the spindle turns on and
the coolant, if selected, comes on. I thought of that after finding
additional I/O for my Crusader II control was pretty high. I also thought
the same thing could be done if I had an Indexer that worked like Iggy's,
have the table move out of the normal tool path to hit the switch and cause
an index. There are a few poor folk ways to get around the additional I/O
unless you have to move the total stroke on all axis.

RogerN

On 2010-11-27, RogerN wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts
files or tool defs. But it works.

I should have added, Iggy, that there are _significant_ benefits to
converting this machine.

First of all, it's possible to convert it while using the existing drive
electronics. Although one might not get _modern_ precision from the
feeds, it does pretty nice work already.

Second, the machine lacks some stuff we think of as "normal" to automatic
equipment. There is no G-code to turn the spindle on and off, or change
speed. There are no codes associated with the coolant systems.

And nothing ever displays on the screen, except for g-codes -- there's no
graphical representation of the job, tool selections, path depictions,
etc.

So, I'm looking forward to a conversion. However, the old '68 Buick
still gets me to the grocery store, just without any built-in GPS.

LLoyd

One possibility I thought of doing with my Anilam Bridgeport mill. You
could put a limit switch on the table so that when the machine is in "Park"
or "Tool Change" position it kills the power to spindle and turns off the
coolant. As soon as the program runs and moves it, the spindle turns on and
the coolant, if selected, comes on. I thought of that after finding
additional I/O for my Crusader II control was pretty high. I also thought
the same thing could be done if I had an Indexer that worked like Iggy's,
have the table move out of the normal tool path to hit the switch and cause
an index. There are a few poor folk ways to get around the additional I/O
unless you have to move the total stroke on all axis.

Roger, if I were you I would retrofit your mill and enjoy life to the
fullest. You may even be able to use one PC as a control of both
machines, though probably you will not be able to run both at the same
time.

i

"RogerN" fired this volley in
:

You
could put a limit switch on the table so that when the machine is in
"Park" or "Tool Change" position it kills the power to spindle and
turns off the coolant. As soon as the program runs and moves it, the
spindle turns on and the coolant, if selected, comes on.

The R2E4 is already set up in the control firmware to kill the spindle if
the machine hits any of the limit stops (all in software, no switches).
However, the spindle won't turn back on when the table is moved from the
limits -- has to be done manually.

The spindle is _logic_ controlled, not "electrically", so there's no
reason why a spindle control would be a big project -- but not on the
existing control system. I'm not ready to disassemble and reassemble the
68K software that runs it. I'd rather just jump to EMC^2 in one step.

LLoyd

On 2010-11-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus8184 fired this volley in
:


How is it working for you, is it convenient to program?

No, it's not a convenient machine, and it doesn't hold large parts files or
tool defs. But it works. Until I get past some pretty big contracts, I
just don't have the time to take it down for 6 months to convert over to
EMC^2.

That's really great that it works, everything has limitations,
congrats on having a great machine.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 16:07:42 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd

Very well done!!

Though..I moved my RPC outside the shop and around the corner and can
barely hear the thing even if the shop is quiet.

But you did very well! Bravo!

Gunner

--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Though..I moved my RPC outside the shop and around the corner and can
barely hear the thing even if the shop is quiet.


I remember you saying that, and I strategized how to accomplish it in my
shop. But "outside the shop" really means "outdoors" for me, and I figured
my time was better spent converting the machine (which only took about six
hours) that building "huts" to shield outdoor equipment.

LLoyd

On 2010-11-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Though..I moved my RPC outside the shop and around the corner and can
barely hear the thing even if the shop is quiet.


I remember you saying that, and I strategized how to accomplish it in my
shop. But "outside the shop" really means "outdoors" for me, and I figured
my time was better spent converting the machine (which only took about six
hours) that building "huts" to shield outdoor equipment.

You will be far better off with a VFD, for many reasons.

i

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd

The thing to keep in mind with any of these machines, is that outside of
motors, not much of anything really uses three phase power. VFDs are
pretty cheap these days so the motors are easy to deal with, even stuff
like coolant pump motors can go on small basic VFDs. Occasionally you
have to rebuild a 3 phase AC to DC power supply, but often you just find
several separate power supplies with single phase inputs.

On 2010-11-27, Pete C. wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would
track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd

The thing to keep in mind with any of these machines, is that outside of
motors, not much of anything really uses three phase power. VFDs are
pretty cheap these days so the motors are easy to deal with, even stuff
like coolant pump motors can go on small basic VFDs. Occasionally you
have to rebuild a 3 phase AC to DC power supply, but often you just find
several separate power supplies with single phase inputs.

Sadly, the old control on my mill was very dependent on three
phase. The new one, is all single phase of course.

responding to
http://www.rittercnc.com/metalworkin...e4-429295-.htm
meatwad wrote:
Hi Lloyd,

I have no idea if you will get this email, but I though I would give
it a try. *I just purchased a bridgeport r2e4 boss 9 mill, and moved
it into my garage workshop. *I plan to convert it over to mach3, emc2
or centroid control, but in the meantime it would be nice to see if it
actually works. *Rather than buy/build a RPC, it would be nice to just
convert the control over to single phase 230. *can you elaborate on
how you changed your machine over to single phase?

Best Regards,

Thadeus Gregg



FINALLY, I got my r2e4 Bridgeport converted to single-phase.

No more of that damned RPC singing over in the corner, no.

As it turns out, the R2E4 machine is basically a single-phase machine,
anyway, except for the spindle motor (which is definitely 3-phase).

The electronics all run off two (single) phases of the incoming power,
and there are no references to the phases. All it took to get them
converted was to move a couple of leads.

To adapt the spindle, I installed a VFD and a relay isolator that would

track the F/R signals from the motor relays, and signal the VFD to
start/stop/forward/reverse.

It cost only $149 and some labor.

Now to make metal in the QUIET! G

LLoyd


--

On 2011-05-21, meatwad wrote:
responding to
http://www.rittercnc.com/metalworkin...e4-429295-.htm
meatwad wrote:
Hi Lloyd,

I have no idea if you will get this email, but I though I would give
it a try. *I just purchased a bridgeport r2e4 boss 9 mill, and moved
it into my garage workshop. *I plan to convert it over to mach3, emc2
or centroid control, but in the meantime it would be nice to see if it
actually works. *Rather than buy/build a RPC, it would be nice to just
convert the control over to single phase 230. *can you elaborate on
how you changed your machine over to single phase?

Hmm ... the BOSS-9 is one of the servo machines, is it not?

You've got a better chance than I did with the BOSS-3, which is
stepper motors, and has a big three-phase transformer from the secondary
of which each phase provides the power to a single stepper and its
drivers. Add to that a saturable reactor (also called a MagAmp) between
the secondary and the bridge rectifier for the stepper motor's power
supply to adjust the voltage -- something like 50 VDC or so when the motor
is stopped, or being stepped slowly, and 80 VDC when the step rate goes
up. This is because the maximum step rate is limited by the inductance
of the stepper windings, but at the 80 VDC, the current overheats the
steppers when they are *not* being stepped rapidly.

Anyway this does not gracefully accept the variable frequency
of a VFD. And it is also rather difficult to re-wire to single phase
power.

The actual computer part (a DEC LSI-11 CPU and a bunch of custom
electronics to go with it) is powered from a single phase, so it is no
real problem -- only the individual stepper motor power supplies.

So -- expect yours to be a lot easier to fix up. From what you
quoted and I trimmed, I gather that the two phases used to power it were
selected to minimize the total current drain from a single phase.

Of course, you will need a VFD or a RPC to handle the spindle
motor, which *must* have three phase to work properly.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

(meatwad) fired this volley in
oups.com:

ÿcan you elaborate on
how you changed your machine over to single phase?


Sent a PM. It's quite easy on the R2E4, which has two power transformers
operating in single phase, but from two separate phases. No phase
referencing is being done, so it's just a matter of re-wiring a bit, and
adding a VFD with some reversing contactor translation for the VFD
control inputs.

DO NOT attempt to use the existing reversing contactors on the output of
your VFD, or you will fry it.

LLoyd