I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five armed
services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss army
knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how to use
the can opener attachment, in fact I am pretty sure some of them used the
wrong attachment. Four of them managed eventually at a cost of some injuries
and the cans were mangled. One failed to empty the can in the alloted time.

I wondered about the implications: Is this a reflection on general
population's unfamiliarity with a can opener? Is this a reflection on basic
training? Is it because the knife was *Swiss*? It cannot be because the
knife was *Army* as I believe it was the Army guy who failed. I hesitate to
cite stress affecting the performance of members of fighitng forces.

Would members of the Special Forces have done better? One of the guys made a
creditable effort to rip the can open with his bare hands but with a minimum
result. How would the US Armed forces stack up against, say, the Brits or
the Russians?

Is this something to be concerned about? Do I have too much time on my
hands?

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

Michael Koblic wrote:
I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five armed
services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss army
knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how to use
the can opener attachment, in fact I am pretty sure some of them used the
wrong attachment. Four of them managed eventually at a cost of some injuries
and the cans were mangled. One failed to empty the can in the alloted time.

I wondered about the implications: Is this a reflection on general
population's unfamiliarity with a can opener? Is this a reflection on basic
training? Is it because the knife was *Swiss*? It cannot be because the
knife was *Army* as I believe it was the Army guy who failed. I hesitate to
cite stress affecting the performance of members of fighitng forces.

Would members of the Special Forces have done better? One of the guys made a
creditable effort to rip the can open with his bare hands but with a minimum
result. How would the US Armed forces stack up against, say, the Brits or
the Russians?

Is this something to be concerned about? Do I have too much time on my
hands?

We all probably have too much time on our hands
so I'll let that slide.

Any pre-gulf war vet would have used a P-38 to
open his/her C-rations and would be able to
figure out the knife. I hope.

I was shocked to learn that some of my daugher's
high school friends were never allowed to use
kitchen knives.

I'm guessing that the whole concept of tool-using
is slowly bleeding out of a large portion of the
population. Cars neither need nor are easy to
repair. Most products are cheaper to throw away
than to fix. How many *hundreds* of old collected
sets of tools end up at the flea market, presumably
because their new owner had no use for them.

For example, most people used to at least have
a clue as to how a television works. I think
that if you asked most young people, you'd get
a one word answer, LED or LCL or plasma.

The military is having a hard time attracting
enough smart and educated recruits. This is not
meant to disparage our troops, but OTOH, there's
not a lot of kids going into the military to learn
a civilian trade any more.

Oh well, just means us old farts will have some
value in the next 20 or 30 years.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 17:33:11 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote:

The military is having a hard time attracting
enough smart and educated recruits. This is not
meant to disparage our troops, but OTOH, there's
not a lot of kids going into the military to learn
a civilian trade any more.
===============
Another factoid that is not widely known.

At one time the U.S. military was the worlds largest trade school
and many of the machinists, welders, riggers, electronics techs,
etc. that kept America running, learned their trade and got their
start in the trade there.

It should be noted that the draft was in effect at that time and
if you were male you either went to college or went in the
military. Either way you learned something.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:56:17 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:14:24 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Jim Stewart wrote:

Michael Koblic wrote:
I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five armed
services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss army
knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how to use
the can opener attachment, in fact I am pretty sure some of them used the
wrong attachment. Four of them managed eventually at a cost of some injuries
and the cans were mangled. One failed to empty the can in the alloted time.

I wondered about the implications: Is this a reflection on general
population's unfamiliarity with a can opener? Is this a reflection on basic
training? Is it because the knife was *Swiss*? It cannot be because the
knife was *Army* as I believe it was the Army guy who failed. I hesitate to
cite stress affecting the performance of members of fighitng forces.

Would members of the Special Forces have done better? One of the guys made a
creditable effort to rip the can open with his bare hands but with a minimum
result. How would the US Armed forces stack up against, say, the Brits or
the Russians?

Is this something to be concerned about? Do I have too much time on my
hands?

We all probably have too much time on our hands
so I'll let that slide.

Any pre-gulf war vet would have used a P-38 to
open his/her C-rations and would be able to
figure out the knife. I hope.

I was shocked to learn that some of my daugher's
high school friends were never allowed to use
kitchen knives.

I'm guessing that the whole concept of tool-using
is slowly bleeding out of a large portion of the
population. Cars neither need nor are easy to
repair. Most products are cheaper to throw away
than to fix. How many *hundreds* of old collected
sets of tools end up at the flea market, presumably
because their new owner had no use for them.

For example, most people used to at least have
a clue as to how a television works. I think
that if you asked most young people, you'd get
a one word answer, LED or LCL or plasma.

The military is having a hard time attracting
enough smart and educated recruits. This is not
meant to disparage our troops, but OTOH, there's
not a lot of kids going into the military to learn
a civilian trade any more.

Oh well, just means us old farts will have some
value in the next 20 or 30 years.

The biggest issue this points out is the lack of basic mechanical
aptitude and problem solving skills. Even if all these troops have seen
are tear to open MREs, they should be able to look at the can, look at
the options on the knife and use basic mechanical problem solving skills
to figure it out.

The sad fact is that a large portion of our volunteer troops come from
backgrounds where religious indoctrination took precedence over basic
education - not unlike the enemy they are currently fighting.


You are confusing something..most of these kids are conservative and
largely from rural areas..so they are head and hands smarter and better
educatied than city kids.

Are you saying that the kid that just put the carby out of a 72 Poncho
into his 89 Poncho cant figure out how to open an MRE?

Gunner

I should mention..that I as a survivalist or miltiary man..have opened 3
cans of Stuff in my entire life with a Swiss Army Knife.

On the other hand....I have a P38/P51 on every keychain I own, and one
on the dog tags chain I wear when Im out in the field

And I can and HAVE opened a **** load of stuff with a P38 or its larger
brother..the P51

The .."swiss army knife" has not been GI Issue since WW2 to the best of
my knowlege...the various P38s have done yoemans duty since 43 or so
IRRC

http://www.georgia-outfitters.com/page52.shtml#p51

Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five
armed services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss
army knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how
to use the can opener attachment, in fact I am pretty sure some of them
used the wrong attachment. Four of them managed eventually at a cost of
some injuries and the cans were mangled. One failed to empty the can in the
alloted time.

I wondered about the implications: Is this a reflection on general
population's unfamiliarity with a can opener? Is this a reflection on
basic training? Is it because the knife was *Swiss*? It cannot be because
the knife was *Army* as I believe it was the Army guy who failed. I
hesitate to cite stress affecting the performance of members of fighitng
forces.

Would members of the Special Forces have done better? One of the guys made
a creditable effort to rip the can open with his bare hands but with a
minimum result. How would the US Armed forces stack up against, say, the
Brits or the Russians?

Is this something to be concerned about? Do I have too much time on my
hands?

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC




i didn't see the video. i bet leno has lots of guys try it and only airs
the most embarrassing footage.
i imagined that's how he used to do his "jaywalking" segment, selectively
editing so that only the most apparently stoopid people aired.

b.w.

I can even open cans with a bayonet. (which is what bayonets are
mostly for).

It is the job of parents to foster their kids' mechanical aptitude.

i

Steve W. wrote:
Michael Koblic wrote:
I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five armed
services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss army
knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how to use
the can opener attachment, in fact I am pretty sure some of them used the
wrong attachment. Four of them managed eventually at a cost of some injuries
and the cans were mangled. One failed to empty the can in the alloted time.

I wondered about the implications: Is this a reflection on general
population's unfamiliarity with a can opener? Is this a reflection on basic
training? Is it because the knife was *Swiss*? It cannot be because the
knife was *Army* as I believe it was the Army guy who failed. I hesitate to
cite stress affecting the performance of members of fighitng forces.

Would members of the Special Forces have done better? One of the guys made a
creditable effort to rip the can open with his bare hands but with a minimum
result. How would the US Armed forces stack up against, say, the Brits or
the Russians?

Is this something to be concerned about? Do I have too much time on my
hands?


Well I decided to try it myself. Grabbed a standard can of tuna (no C
sauce left), laid my Mechanics model Victorinox knife down and started
the clock.

48 seconds to open the can.

Disgraceful.

The trick with them is that you go forwards and rock the knife to keep
it cutting. If you try going backwards you leave small slivers of lid
behind.

I use my Victorinox "Tinkerer", it's the only can opener I have.
I lost a U.S. Coast Guard can opener somewhere. It's tiny, folds, fits
on a keychain. Takes easy twist-o'-the-wrist action, without bending the
wrist or jacking the elbow up and down. It cuts like the Swiss Army
tool, except it travels backward, clockwise around the can. It's
perfect, far better than the Swiss Army opener.

On Nov 28, 12:46*am, "William Wixon" wrote:

i didn't see the video. *i bet leno has lots of guys try it and only airs
the most embarrassing footage.

Yeah, everyone Is aware that his show is supposed to be comedy, right?

Mark Rand wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:56:46 -0500, "Steve W." wrote:


The P-51 I have works easier BUT it's also larger than the 38. One I
used to have around was even smaller than the 38, came with a brand of
sardines I used to get.



I was a bit taken aback...

Isn't it overkill to use a fighter plane to open a can of tuna??

How much tuna is left in the can afterwards?


:-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

Depends on the point of aim ;-)

--
Steve W.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 17:06:25 -0800, the infamous "Michael Koblic"
scrawled the following:

I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five armed
services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss army
knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how to use
the can opener attachment, in fact I am pretty sure some of them used the
wrong attachment. Four of them managed eventually at a cost of some injuries
and the cans were mangled. One failed to empty the can in the alloted time.

That's downright shameful. I hope it comes out later that Leno set
'em up or paid them to stumble. Any other scenario is just too scary.
I hope the Al Queda boys don't see that show. Talk about an esteem
builder for the enemy...


I wondered about the implications: Is this a reflection on general
population's unfamiliarity with a can opener? Is this a reflection on basic
training? Is it because the knife was *Swiss*? It cannot be because the
knife was *Army* as I believe it was the Army guy who failed. I hesitate to
cite stress affecting the performance of members of fighitng forces.

The question coming up in my mind: Is this entire current generation
totally clueless when it comes to mechanical things, and only good for
playing electronic games?


Would members of the Special Forces have done better?

If -all- of them couldn't do it in record time, I'd be extremely
surprised.


One of the guys made a
creditable effort to rip the can open with his bare hands but with a minimum
result. How would the US Armed forces stack up against, say, the Brits or
the Russians?

I'd hope both the Brits and Russians would do better than our sample
did, that's for certain.


Is this something to be concerned about? Do I have too much time on my
hands?

Yes, and absolutely. Next question!

--
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

Ignoramus11641 wrote:

I can even open cans with a bayonet. (which is what bayonets are
mostly for).


No, they are for disemboweling the enemy. Of course you couldn't
possible know that.


--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 17:33:11 -0800, the infamous Jim Stewart
scrawled the following:

Michael Koblic wrote:
I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five armed
services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss army
knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how to use
the can opener attachment, in fact I am pretty sure some of them used the
wrong attachment. Four of them managed eventually at a cost of some injuries
and the cans were mangled. One failed to empty the can in the alloted time.

I wondered about the implications: Is this a reflection on general
population's unfamiliarity with a can opener? Is this a reflection on basic
training? Is it because the knife was *Swiss*? It cannot be because the
knife was *Army* as I believe it was the Army guy who failed. I hesitate to
cite stress affecting the performance of members of fighitng forces.

Would members of the Special Forces have done better? One of the guys made a
creditable effort to rip the can open with his bare hands but with a minimum
result. How would the US Armed forces stack up against, say, the Brits or
the Russians?

Is this something to be concerned about? Do I have too much time on my
hands?

We all probably have too much time on our hands
so I'll let that slide.

Any pre-gulf war vet would have used a P-38 to
open his/her C-rations and would be able to
figure out the knife. I hope.

I was shocked to learn that some of my daugher's
high school friends were never allowed to use
kitchen knives.

I'm guessing that the whole concept of tool-using
is slowly bleeding out of a large portion of the
population. Cars neither need nor are easy to
repair. Most products are cheaper to throw away
than to fix. How many *hundreds* of old collected
sets of tools end up at the flea market, presumably
because their new owner had no use for them.

Sad, isn't it?


For example, most people used to at least have
a clue as to how a television works. I think
that if you asked most young people, you'd get
a one word answer, LED or LCL or plasma.

I don't hang around young people, but it appears that curiosity is
missing from their lives. Maybe that's the price of today's
technology, making everything available at once. Nobody gets bored
enough to turn curious any more.


The military is having a hard time attracting
enough smart and educated recruits. This is not
meant to disparage our troops, but OTOH, there's
not a lot of kids going into the military to learn
a civilian trade any more.

Too many are referred from drug/alcohol rehab programs, jail, or
court. Scary, wot?


Oh well, just means us old farts will have some
value in the next 20 or 30 years.

Y'mean I just may make a _Living Wage_ sometime in my future?
Excellent!

--
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

Erik wrote:

i didn't see the video. i bet leno has lots of guys try it and only airs
the most embarrassing footage.
i imagined that's how he used to do his "jaywalking" segment, selectively
editing so that only the most apparently stoopid people aired.

b.w.

Leno... is he still around?


You know what they say: 'Old comics never die, but their old jokes
do.'


--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:17:14 +0000, the infamous Mark Rand
scrawled the following:

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:56:46 -0500, "Steve W." wrote:


The P-51 I have works easier BUT it's also larger than the 38. One I
used to have around was even smaller than the 38, came with a brand of
sardines I used to get.



I was a bit taken aback...

Isn't it overkill to use a fighter plane to open a can of tuna??

How much tuna is left in the can afterwards?


:-)

The respective answers are "So what?" and "Who cares?" It's fun.

--
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

On Nov 28, 4:33*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five armed
services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss army
knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how to use
the can opener attachment,

Were they all freshly minted Lieutenants?

A crusty old Sergeant would just order the can lid to ATTENTION!!!

(after I rigged it for him)

jsw

Ignoramus11641 wrote:

I can even open cans with a bayonet. (which is what bayonets are
mostly for).


Most soviet bayonets were only useful for tent spikes or sticking people.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Jim Stewart wrote:

For example, most people used to at least have
a clue as to how a television works. I think
that if you asked most young people, you'd get
a one word answer, LED or LCL or plasma.

Outside of a RF reciever, most televisions don't work the same as they did when I was a
kid.

They did go digital recently.

WEs
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Nov 28, 5:54*pm, Wes wrote:

Outside of a RF reciever, most televisions don't work the same as they did when I was a
kid.

They did go digital recently.

Downconvert, digitize, the rest is software.

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Nov 28, 5:54 pm, Wes wrote:

Outside of a RF reciever, most televisions don't work the same as
they did when I was a kid.

They did go digital recently.

Downconvert, digitize, the rest is software.

I'd be interested in hearing about that.
I've gone from 30 decent channels to six poor ones.


--
John R. Carroll

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

They did go digital recently.

Downconvert, digitize, the rest is software.

I'd be interested in hearing about that.
I've gone from 30 decent channels to six poor ones.


But think of all the spectrum the goverment was able to sell.

I thought this was only a problem in the flyover states.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:37:01 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Ignoramus11641 wrote:

I can even open cans with a bayonet. (which is what bayonets are
mostly for).


No, they are for disemboweling the enemy. Of course you couldn't
possible know that.


But...as a side utility..they do work as an impromptu kan opener.

The 3 fingered flash suppressor on the early M16s was to keep the flash
of the weapon out of your aiming line of sight. The secondary utility
was for busting the strapping on C-rat cases.

Then the *******s changed the design...sigh


Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:14:24 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Jim Stewart wrote:

Michael Koblic wrote:
I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five
armed
services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss
army
knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how
to use
the can opener attachment, in fact I am pretty sure some of them used
the
wrong attachment. Four of them managed eventually at a cost of some
injuries
and the cans were mangled. One failed to empty the can in the alloted
time.

I wondered about the implications: Is this a reflection on general
population's unfamiliarity with a can opener? Is this a reflection on
basic
training? Is it because the knife was *Swiss*? It cannot be because
the
knife was *Army* as I believe it was the Army guy who failed. I
hesitate to
cite stress affecting the performance of members of fighitng forces.

Would members of the Special Forces have done better? One of the guys
made a
creditable effort to rip the can open with his bare hands but with a
minimum
result. How would the US Armed forces stack up against, say, the Brits
or
the Russians?

Is this something to be concerned about? Do I have too much time on my
hands?

We all probably have too much time on our hands
so I'll let that slide.

Any pre-gulf war vet would have used a P-38 to
open his/her C-rations and would be able to
figure out the knife. I hope.

I was shocked to learn that some of my daugher's
high school friends were never allowed to use
kitchen knives.

I'm guessing that the whole concept of tool-using
is slowly bleeding out of a large portion of the
population. Cars neither need nor are easy to
repair. Most products are cheaper to throw away
than to fix. How many *hundreds* of old collected
sets of tools end up at the flea market, presumably
because their new owner had no use for them.

For example, most people used to at least have
a clue as to how a television works. I think
that if you asked most young people, you'd get
a one word answer, LED or LCL or plasma.

The military is having a hard time attracting
enough smart and educated recruits. This is not
meant to disparage our troops, but OTOH, there's
not a lot of kids going into the military to learn
a civilian trade any more.

Oh well, just means us old farts will have some
value in the next 20 or 30 years.

The biggest issue this points out is the lack of basic mechanical
aptitude and problem solving skills. Even if all these troops have seen
are tear to open MREs, they should be able to look at the can, look at
the options on the knife and use basic mechanical problem solving skills
to figure it out.

The sad fact is that a large portion of our volunteer troops come from
backgrounds where religious indoctrination took precedence over basic
education - not unlike the enemy they are currently fighting.


You are confusing something..most of these kids are conservative and
largely from rural areas..so they are head and hands smarter and better
educatied than city kids.

Are you saying that the kid that just put the carby out of a 72 Poncho
into his 89 Poncho cant figure out how to open an MRE?


Why would a smart kid want to take the fuel injection off a car and put a
carb on it? I think the smart ones are putting FI where a carb used to live.
Steve

Steve Ackman wrote:
In , on Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:16:44 -0500, Steve
W., wrote:

Well I decided to try it myself. Grabbed a standard can of tuna (no C
sauce left), laid my Mechanics model Victorinox knife down and started
the clock.

48 seconds to open the can.

I don't think you beat the Army guy on Leno. 48
seconds is pitful! ;-)

Well I'm sort of spoiled with the electric....

I have been looking for the oddball opener I have, may have sent it with
a friend who went into the sandbox.


I just did a large can (4" dia.) of tamales in less
than 30 seconds using the can opener on my Leatherman.
Could have done it in half that time easily with a
P-38. Probably 70% of that for a normal sized can.


Well with my alternative opener I could probably open the can in about
1/1000 of a second. But the results from that .50 going through the lid
ain't pretty. ;-)

Just had another case of MREs dropped today. Have to rotate the stock. I
will say the new menu for 09 is pretty good, they are now up to 24
different entree's. Many of which are actually edible.


--
Steve W.

Gunner Asch wrote:

The 3 fingered flash suppressor on the early M16s was to keep the flash
of the weapon out of your aiming line of sight. The secondary utility
was for busting the strapping on C-rat cases.

Then the *******s changed the design...sigh

I saw that on a rifle at ITR. My rifle had the newer design.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Steve Ackman" wrote in message
rg...
In , on Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:46:21
-0600, William Wixon, wrote:

i didn't see the video. i bet leno has lots of guys try it and only airs
the most embarrassing footage.

No, it was the Thanksgiving day show. The audience
was all military. One from each branch competed for
a car.



oh! LOL! that must've been damn funny to watch. wow. lol. jeez.

b.w.

On Nov 28, 6:44*pm, Steve Ackman
wrote:


* Yes. *In looking for a can to open to time myself,

27.9 seconds to free the bottom of an 18.8 Oz Campbells Chunky can
with a Chinese copy of the Swiss Soldier.
http://www.surplusandadventure.com/i...in/soldier.jpg
I'd already popped the top and emptied it so slivers don't matter.
Looks like a good idea to wash the can out, too.

jsw

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:51:10 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

Steve Ackman wrote:
In , on Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:16:44 -0500, Steve
W., wrote:

Well I decided to try it myself. Grabbed a standard can of tuna (no C
sauce left), laid my Mechanics model Victorinox knife down and started
the clock.

48 seconds to open the can.

I don't think you beat the Army guy on Leno. 48
seconds is pitful! ;-)

Well I'm sort of spoiled with the electric....

I have been looking for the oddball opener I have, may have sent it with
a friend who went into the sandbox.


I just did a large can (4" dia.) of tamales in less
than 30 seconds using the can opener on my Leatherman.
Could have done it in half that time easily with a
P-38. Probably 70% of that for a normal sized can.


Well with my alternative opener I could probably open the can in about
1/1000 of a second. But the results from that .50 going through the lid
ain't pretty. ;-)

Just had another case of MREs dropped today. Have to rotate the stock. I
will say the new menu for 09 is pretty good, they are now up to 24
different entree's. Many of which are actually edible.


Get any spares..Ill swap you Stuff for em. At least 3 yrs before
expiration date please....G

Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

Wes wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

They did go digital recently.

Downconvert, digitize, the rest is software.

I'd be interested in hearing about that.
I've gone from 30 decent channels to six poor ones.


But think of all the spectrum the goverment was able to sell.

I thought this was only a problem in the flyover states.

I think it's a problem for everyone except cable and satellite service
providers.



--
John R. Carroll

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I think it's a sad commentary on the different activites we
provide for our youth. I got to use the can opener on a
folding knife, about age 6 or 8 some where along that age.
Had my first folding knife by 8 or so. Now days, I doubt
that kids are allowed to carry pocket knives, even when not
in school.


I started carrying a folder about the same time I was introduced to P38 -
about age 5. No question IMHO that P38 is a superior tool but that is not
the point. I do not know how long Swiss Army knives have been around. I got
my first one about 45 years ago. The can opener design has not changed since
then (although I did get my last one SAK about 8 years ago so I cannot be
completely sure). I would find it hard to believe that most young men have
not seen or handled an SAK at some point. I know that some of the Brit
special forces like to buy and carry their own.

Any young man of my generation who ever was in a position to have to look
after himself pretty much acquired the skill of can opening as a survival
mechanism, using not just one or two can openers, but several.

So my first reaction to seeing the Leno show was first incredulity and than
amusement. Later I began to wonder about the implications.

I understand that the current form of rations (MREs?) do not contain cans
and, as someone pointed out, rightly so: They have other things to worry
about. However, the rub of that argument is that overdependence on issue
rations may not be a good thing in the "fog of war" situation. The extreme
is to say that if not issued with MREs the troops would starve. The opposite
of that is the Russian guerilla cavalry in WW2 who generally managed with a
bagful of vegetables scrounged off the land for 3 weeks at a time.

Many have commented on the possible reason of this state of affairs and
there is probably a bit of truth in all of them. I just could not get away
from explaining how single young men survive without opening cans. Then it
came to me: Take-out meals!

--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC

On 2009-11-28, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Ignoramus11641 wrote:

I can even open cans with a bayonet. (which is what bayonets are
mostly for).

No, they are for disemboweling the enemy. Of course you couldn't
possible know that.

Well, I opened cans with a bayonet, and neither you nor I disemboweled
anyone with a bayonet. Right or wrong?

i

On 2009-11-28, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus11641 wrote:
I can even open cans with a bayonet. (which is what bayonets are
mostly for).

Most soviet bayonets were only useful for tent spikes or sticking people.

Soviet bayonets can also cut wire.

i

On Nov 28, 9:11*pm, "John R. Carroll" wrote:
Wes wrote:
....

I think it's a problem for everyone except cable and satellite service
providers.
John R. Carroll

I can pick up the same Boston area stations as before, plus new -2, -3
etc channels from PBS. All I lost was DX'ing the analog VHF ones 100+
miles away, like Portland ME and Hartford CT.

bidness.dev.nul???

When I was using a more sophisticated Mac newsreader and could see
headers, one frequent, irascible poster would set replies to go to
dev.null unless we manually changed them. We teased him that it was
really the secret vault where he kept and fed his piece of Invisigoth,
the girl who escaped into the Internet on the X-Files.

I've got mine.
jsw

Steve W. wrote:

Just had another case of MREs dropped today. Have to rotate the stock. I
will say the new menu for 09 is pretty good, they are now up to 24
different entree's. Many of which are actually edible.

Where do you get them?

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Nov 28, 9:11 pm, "John R. Carroll" wrote:
Wes wrote:
...

I think it's a problem for everyone except cable and satellite
service providers.
John R. Carroll

I can pick up the same Boston area stations as before, plus new -2, -3
etc channels from PBS.

I used to watch Charlie Rose every night, that and "Everybody Loves
Raymond". No more.
11,13, 7,9 28, 56 and 58 are gone. No more "Frontline" or "Nova"
either.......
I don't even get an ABC affiliate anymore.

All I lost was DX'ing the analog VHF ones 100+
miles away, like Portland ME and Hartford CT.

I get a bunch of Spanish language programming.
That, NBC and ION are about it.
Something else is a little strange. I have to rescan a couple times per day
to keep CBS.




--
John R. Carroll

"Michael Koblic" wrote in
:


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I think it's a sad commentary on the different activites we
provide for our youth. I got to use the can opener on a
folding knife, about age 6 or 8 some where along that age.
Had my first folding knife by 8 or so. Now days, I doubt
that kids are allowed to carry pocket knives, even when not
in school.


I started carrying a folder about the same time I was introduced to
P38 - about age 5. No question IMHO that P38 is a superior tool but
that is not the point. I do not know how long Swiss Army knives have
been around. I got my first one about 45 years ago. The can opener
design has not changed since then (although I did get my last one SAK
about 8 years ago so I cannot be completely sure). I would find it
hard to believe that most young men have not seen or handled an SAK at
some point. I know that some of the Brit special forces like to buy
and carry their own.

I'm not sure it it is still the case, but it can depend on which brand of
Swiss Army Knife you have. My father had a Wenger SAK, and the can
opener on it was terrible. You had to stab it through the can top, and
it cut up instead of down. You could take the top off a can OK, but it
left a ragged sharp edge sticking up. Definitely not something you
wanted to drink out of, for example.

Victorinox uses the downward cutting hook the same as the old Boy Scout
knives, both similar to a P38 in basic design. I think Victoriox &
Wenger got into some sort of patent / trade-mark legal contest back in
the late 50's or early 60's when they first became popular in the US.
After using my dad's, I couldn't imagine why anyone would want one until
I discovered Victorinox had a decent can opener. Someplace I also have
an SAK with a slit in the Phillips screw driver so you can use it to wind
up a sardine can lid.

Doug White

Michael Koblic wrote:

Any young man of my generation who ever was in a position to have to look
after himself pretty much acquired the skill of can opening as a survival
mechanism, using not just one or two can openers, but several.

All you need to know...

Looney Tunes - "Canned Feud"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMqhG...rom=PL&index=1

Wes wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote:

For example, most people used to at least have
a clue as to how a television works. I think
that if you asked most young people, you'd get
a one word answer, LED or LCL or plasma.

Outside of a RF reciever, most televisions don't work the same as they did when I was a
kid.

They did go digital recently.

WEs
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

So odd, timing wise, Wes...



Over soup and sandwich at Panera tonight, Dorothy asked me how TVs worked.

I started with a 1955 Philco black and white set and explained how the
horizontal and vertical saw-tooth signals moved the electron beam across
the screen, why the H and V sync signals were so important, and all that.
Even touched on the phase angle reference in color TV (VERY briefly).

She's a bright girl! She immediately said, "Yeah, but flat panel screens
don't work like that, do they".

So I explained to her how the flat screen has tiny computer circuits in it
that 1) monitor the incoming RGB (or whatever) signal and store it to screen
memory while 2) other little dedicated circuits copy from their portion of
screen memory to their little portion of the display screen.
Refresh rates versed flicker.

And all of that to maintain backwards compatibility to the original video
signal.



But my bottom line to the OP is simply thus: once software replaces
mechanical stuff, it's sufficiently advanced enough to qualify as magic.

And who can possibly understand that kind of Magic?
Some of us here do - but certainly not all of us.

Just buy it (cheap) and play with it until it breaks.

Very little of the consumer electronics products are actually repairable.
The problem that keeps if from working may just be a portion of one chip.
But cost to repair versed cost to replace?
It has to be pretty expensive stuff before it can be economically repaired.

Steve Ackman wrote:
In , on Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:16:44 -0500, Steve
W., wrote:

Well I decided to try it myself. Grabbed a standard can of tuna (no C
sauce left), laid my Mechanics model Victorinox knife down and started
the clock.

48 seconds to open the can.

I don't think you beat the Army guy on Leno. 48
seconds is pitful! ;-)

I just did a large can (4" dia.) of tamales in less
than 30 seconds using the can opener on my Leatherman.
Could have done it in half that time easily with a
P-38. Probably 70% of that for a normal sized can.


I have a special P-38 on my key chain and use it regularly.

IT was the last of the 6 P-38s in my last case of C-Rats
in 1969. I've used this particular P-38 for 40 years.
(Holy time warp, Batman!)

It's still sharp.

Together we can open a can in 10 or 15 seconds.
Not much slower than crank type and a heck of a lot
more convenient than an electric.

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:58:40 -0800 (PST), the infamous Jim Wilkins
scrawled the following:

On Nov 28, 4:33*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I saw an interesting event on Jay Jeno last night: Memebrs of the five armed
services were trying to open a can of cranberry sauce using a Swiss army
knife. It was horrible. None of them seemed to have a clear idea how to use
the can opener attachment,

Were they all freshly minted Lieutenants?

A crusty old Sergeant would just order the can lid to ATTENTION!!!

LOL!


(after I rigged it for him)

That's two today. I didn't write that text. The Doc done it!

--
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:37:01 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Ignoramus11641 wrote:
I can even open cans with a bayonet. (which is what bayonets are
mostly for).

No, they are for disemboweling the enemy. Of course you couldn't
possible know that.


But...as a side utility..they do work as an impromptu kan opener.

The 3 fingered flash suppressor on the early M16s was to keep the flash
of the weapon out of your aiming line of sight. The secondary utility
was for busting the strapping on C-rat cases.

Then the *******s changed the design...sigh


Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton


I played with my neighbor's M16 a while back.
It was one of those new fangled heavy barrel things.
I didn't much care fore it.