I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

stryped fired this volley in news:5f4df7ad-861e-
:

I can use r13
or r-19. I

How are you going to stuff R-19 into a 3-1/2" wall cavity? If you
compress it, it loses R-value.

Unless you go with spray-foam, you're not going to get more than about R-
13 in a standard stud wall. Also, it might be a bitch finding it in 22-
1/2" widths, since standard construction is on 16" centers, and R-13 is
almost never used as attic insulation.

LLoyd

"stryped" wrote in message
...
I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

Just shop locally. Put an ad WANTED, CASH ON DELIVERY, and you may just get
a real deal on some that was "left over from a job." Make sure it's
delivered, and you don't pick it up on any jobsite. If someone has an
abundance of it, you may get it and get it installed for what you would pay
for it at the Borg. I hate hanging insulation.

Steve ;-)

On Sep 8, 11:17*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
stryped fired this volley in news:5f4df7ad-861e-
:

*I can use r13
or r-19. I

How are you going to stuff R-19 into a 3-1/2" wall cavity? *If you
compress it, it loses R-value.

Unless you go with spray-foam, you're not going to get more than about R-
13 in a standard stud wall. *Also, it might be a bitch finding it in 22-
1/2" widths, since standard construction is on 16" centers, and R-13 is
almost never used as attic insulation.

LLoyd

These are 2x4 walls but the outside has "skirts" with metal siding
outside like a pole barn. So I have a 2x4 plus the thickness of a 2x4
"skirt".

On Sep 8, 6:27*pm, Wes wrote:
stryped wrote:
I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

Fairly bulky, I doubt you can mail order it. *Why unfaced? *Faced gives you something to
staple to the studs or trusses to hold it in place before drywalling. *Btw, I think
drywall is cheaper than osb and it adds a lot of fire resistance to your building.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." *Dick Anthony Heller

Here osb is less than 6 bucks a sheet but to be honest it is not just
the cost but the fact I have to mudd drywall and I have never done
that before.

By the way guys, a local contrator is selling insulated 2 inch thick
foam sheets that came out of a school remodel for 10 bucks a sheet.
Would styrofoam type insulation between the rafter beams work for
insulation? (With osb underneath?)

I live near Tennessee not up north but it would be nice to heat it up
nice with a keroscene heater.

"stryped" wrote in message
...
On Sep 8, 6:27 pm, Wes wrote:
stryped wrote:
I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

Fairly bulky, I doubt you can mail order it. Why unfaced? Faced gives you
something to
staple to the studs or trusses to hold it in place before drywalling. Btw,
I think
drywall is cheaper than osb and it adds a lot of fire resistance to your
building.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

-Here osb is less than 6 bucks a sheet but to be honest it is not just
-the cost but the fact I have to mudd drywall and I have never done
-that before.
-
-By the way guys, a local contrator is selling insulated 2 inch thick
-foam sheets that came out of a school remodel for 10 bucks a sheet.
-Would styrofoam type insulation between the rafter beams work for
-insulation? (With osb underneath?)
-
-I live near Tennessee not up north but it would be nice to heat it up
-nice with a keroscene heater.

The problem with both ideas is fire resistance. Styrofoam is a good
insulator, but I doubt much better than fiberglass and is so flammable, same
with OSB. I would pay extra for drywall and fiberglass. Drywall is super
easy to work, especially when compared to OSB. You can simply cut the paper
on one side with a utility knife, and break it like glass. Then run your
knife down the valley caused by the break and fold to free the pieces. Tape
and paper is very simple too. I would guess the taped drywall would add more
insulation value than OSB. OSB would be tough, but I would put it over the
drywall only where needed for durability, and that shouldn't be very much.



I would

On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:00:26 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

check your phone book for insulators, when I did my place I saved a
bunch over the prices at the DIY building stores, They quoted me the
material w/o installation and with installation, I just bought the
stuff and put it in myself.

My ceiling joists were 18-20" on centers, I had to buy all 24" wide
and cut it all down to fit, a real PITA. ( 100 year old building).

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Randy wrote:

My ceiling joists were 18-20" on centers, I had to buy all 24" wide
and cut it all down to fit, a real PITA. ( 100 year old building).

What did you use to cut it with? I'm using a cheap scalloped butcher knife that seems to
work okay.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sep 9, 6:39*pm, Wes wrote:
Randy wrote:
My ceiling joists were 18-20" on centers, I had to buy all 24" wide
and cut it all down to fit, a real PITA. *( 100 year old building).

What did you use to cut it with? *I'm using a cheap scalloped butcher knife that seems to
work okay.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." *Dick Anthony Heller

Squash it with your knee on a 2x4 and use a basic utility knife (plus
you can use the 2x4 as a straightedge).

On Sep 8, 12:00*pm, stryped wrote:
I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

Don't use OSB for facing - it's too flammable. BUT, in places where
you know you'll be hanging stuff, you can put OSB or some dimensional
lumber under the sheetrock to use as nailers later.

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:39:32 -0400, the infamous Wes
scrawled the following:

Randy wrote:

My ceiling joists were 18-20" on centers, I had to buy all 24" wide
and cut it all down to fit, a real PITA. ( 100 year old building).

What did you use to cut it with? I'm using a cheap scalloped butcher knife that seems to
work okay.

http://www.soundaway.com/insulknife_p/21002.htm


Scissors: If you don't have an InsulKnife, a nice large (10-12") pair
of tailor's shears works well and fairly quickly.

Gingher: (ooh, me want!)
http://www.shoppersrule.com/pc/G-12/...rs1/index.html

Henkels: (verrry nice!)
http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eC...&SKU=H41900261
Kleins:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100648091&l angId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=3523498&ci_sku=100648091&ci_ src=10043468&cm_mmc=CJ-_-shopzilla-_-D27-_-100648091&URL=http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/BuildLinkToHomeDepot?linktype=product&id=100648091 &AID=10368321&cj=true&locStoreNum=8557&marketID=54


Razor: For ripping, a straightedge (hold the whole shebang flat so it
cuts easier) and a razorknife work very well. This is what I normally
use. If I did more insulation work, I'd own an InsulKnife.

--
Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite
at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
--Ronald Reagan

On Sep 9, 8:29*pm, rangerssuck wrote:
On Sep 8, 12:00*pm, stryped wrote:

I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

Don't use OSB for facing - it's too flammable. BUT, in places where
you know you'll be hanging stuff, you can put OSB or some dimensional
lumber under the sheetrock to use as nailers later.

Does anyone here use osb for their shop? I just dont think I can tape/
mud drywall. I really dont have any experience with it.

"stryped" wrote in message
...
On Sep 9, 8:29 pm, rangerssuck wrote:
On Sep 8, 12:00 pm, stryped wrote:

I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

Don't use OSB for facing - it's too flammable. BUT, in places where
you know you'll be hanging stuff, you can put OSB or some dimensional
lumber under the sheetrock to use as nailers later.

Does anyone here use osb for their shop? I just dont think I can tape/
mud drywall. I really dont have any experience with it.

Unless you're expecting your walls to look like those in a $1 million custom
home, you'll learn enough in a half-hour to do a credible job. And you can
always use the old custom-home trick to make those walls really smooth: use
two layers of 3/8" drywall, the first applied normally and horizontally, and
the second layer glued to the first, vertically, with a few screws and
construction adhesive. This will give you perfectly aligned edges on the top
layer and will make the taping *much* easier. You'll also have sounder,
slightly thicker walls than you get with one layer of 5/8".

I've done around 10 or 15 rooms over a span of 30 years, and my work looks
as good or better than the best commercial jobs I've seen. It's the old
story about being able to take a little longer than the pros to get it
right.

--
Ed Huntress

"stryped" wrote in message
...
On Sep 9, 8:29 pm, rangerssuck wrote:
On Sep 8, 12:00 pm, stryped wrote:

I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

Don't use OSB for facing - it's too flammable. BUT, in places where
you know you'll be hanging stuff, you can put OSB or some dimensional
lumber under the sheetrock to use as nailers later.

--Does anyone here use osb for their shop? I just dont think I can tape/
--mud drywall. I really dont have any experience with it.

Tape and mud are a piece of cake compared to what you have accomplished so
far. Besides, it's a shop. I doubt I would even sand them, just use a flat
or eggshell latex.

On Sep 10, 8:17*am, stryped wrote:
On Sep 9, 8:29*pm, rangerssuck wrote:



On Sep 8, 12:00*pm, stryped wrote:

I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

Don't use OSB for facing - it's too flammable. BUT, in places where
you know you'll be hanging stuff, you can put OSB or some dimensional
lumber under the sheetrock to use as nailers later.

Does anyone here use osb for their shop? I just dont think I can tape/
mud drywall. I really dont have any experience with it.

One tip is to use the tacky mesh tape rather than the paper tape. You
can just stick it on and mud through it, and it NEVER cracks. If you
insist on using paper tape, soak it in water first.

Personally, in a shop, I doubt I'd bother with the tape & mud at all.
Just paint it (or not). How were you planning to finish the OSB? It's
not exactly a smooth surface.

On Sep 10, 9:29*pm, rangerssuck wrote:
On Sep 10, 8:17*am, stryped wrote:





On Sep 9, 8:29*pm, rangerssuck wrote:

On Sep 8, 12:00*pm, stryped wrote:

I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

Don't use OSB for facing - it's too flammable. BUT, in places where
you know you'll be hanging stuff, you can put OSB or some dimensional
lumber under the sheetrock to use as nailers later.

Does anyone here use osb for their shop? I just dont think I can tape/
mud drywall. I really dont have any experience with it.

One tip is to use the tacky mesh tape rather than the paper tape. You
can just stick it on and mud through it, and it NEVER cracks. If you
insist on using paper tape, soak it in water first.

Personally, in a shop, I doubt I'd bother with the tape & mud at all.
Just paint it (or not). How were you planning to finish the OSB? It's
not exactly a smooth surface.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My thought on the osb was to paint the sheets with primer then paint
before screwing them into the walls/ceiling.

I keep going back and forth on the drywall/osb thing. I cant seem to
make up my mind.

"stryped" wrote in message
...

--My thought on the osb was to paint the sheets with primer then paint
--before screwing them into the walls/ceiling.
--
--I keep going back and forth on the drywall/osb thing. I cant seem to
--make up my mind.


If you are really stuck on this, maybe drywall and trim strips.

OSB is going to leave raw seams unless you trim it with something, and you
still have fire issues. How about using drywall and trim strips instead of
mud and tape? Mobile homes use this method to remain flexible while
traveling. You could rip 1" strips of something like Masonite, or just buy
flat 1" trim, and fasten it with small nails.

Wes wrote:
Randy wrote:

My ceiling joists were 18-20" on centers, I had to buy all 24" wide
and cut it all down to fit, a real PITA. ( 100 year old building).

What did you use to cut it with? I'm using a cheap scalloped butcher
knife that seems to work okay.


I use a medium sized kitchen meat knife, kept sharp with liberal use of a steel.
Slice with long gentle strokes at a shallow angle. 2 or 3 strokes and you're
through. Cuts clean without ripping. Or, saw gently back and forth through the
whole batt.

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:39:32 -0400, Wes wrote:

Randy wrote:

My ceiling joists were 18-20" on centers, I had to buy all 24" wide
and cut it all down to fit, a real PITA. ( 100 year old building).

What did you use to cut it with? I'm using a cheap scalloped butcher knife that seems to
work okay.

Use two boards - one as a cutting surface, and one as a
straightedge/crusher. When you snmash the Fiberglass batt flat, a
plain old Stanley retractable Shop Knife works a treat.

Change the blades when they get dull, they are cheap enough.

-- Bruce --

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:12:32 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Sep 10, 9:29*pm, rangerssuck wrote:
On Sep 10, 8:17*am, stryped wrote:





On Sep 9, 8:29*pm, rangerssuck wrote:

On Sep 8, 12:00*pm, stryped wrote:

I am wanting to insulate my 30x30 shop with 2x4 walls on 2 foot
centers. Is there an online source for insulation or is Lowes or home
depot the cheapest place to go. Money is getting tight. I can use r13
or r-19. I live in Kentucky. The winters get cold but it is not like
some of you guys up north. And this is a garage/hobby shop not a place
of business.

Any suggestions? I have done a search and found unfaced r-19 for 30
bucks for 75 square feet but if I am figuring right that comes up to
600 bucks.

Don't use OSB for facing - it's too flammable. BUT, in places where
you know you'll be hanging stuff, you can put OSB or some dimensional
lumber under the sheetrock to use as nailers later.

Does anyone here use osb for their shop? I just dont think I can tape/
mud drywall. I really dont have any experience with it.

One tip is to use the tacky mesh tape rather than the paper tape. You
can just stick it on and mud through it, and it NEVER cracks. If you
insist on using paper tape, soak it in water first.

Personally, in a shop, I doubt I'd bother with the tape & mud at all.
Just paint it (or not). How were you planning to finish the OSB? It's
not exactly a smooth surface.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My thought on the osb was to paint the sheets with primer then paint
before screwing them into the walls/ceiling.

I keep going back and forth on the drywall/osb thing. I cant seem to
make up my mind.


Think this...drywall wont catch fire and burn your entire shop down some
night.

OSB will

Any further thoughts?

Gunner

The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for
existence.
- It is NOT fiscally responsible.
- It is NOT ethically honorable.
- It has started wars based on lies.
- It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires.
- It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties.
- It has foisted a liar as president upon America.
- It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties.
- It has refused to enforce the national borders.

....It no longer has valid reasons to exist.
Lorad474

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:12:32 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

My thought on the osb was to paint the sheets with primer then paint
before screwing them into the walls/ceiling.

I keep going back and forth on the drywall/osb thing. I cant seem to
make up my mind.

If you plan to hang things on the wall in random places and still
want the fire resistance of Drywall - Do both. Set all the electrical
boxes for a 1" wall, hang 1/2" OSB and then 1/2" drywall. Hang stuff
on the finished wall with 1-1/4" coarse drywall screws, and you can
stick stuff up anywhere you want and it won't fall down.

They make thinner drywall, but it doesn't carry much of a fire
rating, and thinner OSB or Plywood won't be very structural.

Oh, and you get much better shear strength against the building
turning into a Parallelogram on you in the next earthquake, and higher
resistance to flying debris in a severe storm or tornado - rather
important if you happen to be inside said building at the time.

It'll be impossible to make an accidental hole in the wall - just
don't get frustrated and try punching the wall with bare knuckles...

Mud and tape is simple enough with paper tape, apply a thin layer of
mud (4" blade) that basically fuills the crack between sheets and
leave a thin layer on the joint. Then you stick the paper tape to the
joint, and go over it again with the 4" knife and a moderate layer of
mud. This coats the paper tape and sets it well.

For a garage you can stop there - just lightly sand with a screen
pad and a pole sander to knock it flat. Though a second coat of
topping mud is still called for if you find big voids and skips. For
the house, a second coat is mandatory, then a touch-up and application
of texture coat spatter to hide any other minor imperfections.

Once you have a nice flat surface (or at least flat enough for your
purposes) a coat of PVA Primer - if you try painting without priming
first, the drywall will soak up gallons of paint before it starts
building a finish. The primer only soaks down so far and then it
stops.

-- Bruce --

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:06:33 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:39:32 -0400, Wes wrote:

Randy wrote:

My ceiling joists were 18-20" on centers, I had to buy all 24" wide
and cut it all down to fit, a real PITA. ( 100 year old building).

What did you use to cut it with? I'm using a cheap scalloped butcher knife that seems to
work okay.

Use two boards - one as a cutting surface, and one as a
straightedge/crusher. When you snmash the Fiberglass batt flat, a
plain old Stanley retractable Shop Knife works a treat.

Change the blades when they get dull, they are cheap enough.

-- Bruce --

I used plywwod on the bottom and a length of angle on the top, top of
V down, push down and cut with utility knife.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

stryped wrote:

Don't use OSB for facing - it's too flammable. BUT, in places where
you know you'll be hanging stuff, you can put OSB or some dimensional
lumber under the sheetrock to use as nailers later.

Does anyone here use osb for their shop? I just dont think I can tape/
mud drywall. I really dont have any experience with it.

It isn't that hard. Ask around at your Lowes, Home Depot, or other lumber yard if they
have seminars. Most of them have DIY sessions that can get you up to speed.

I've only done drywall twice, it looked fine. I bought a book at the Home depot and
followed instructions.

Besides, this is a workshop, the standards are a bit lower than in a home.


Wes

--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

stryped wrote:


Here osb is less than 6 bucks a sheet but to be honest it is not just
the cost but the fact I have to mudd drywall and I have never done
that before.



Well you DON'T "have to". If you don't you are no worse off than
OSB. you just have a visible joint line.

Mudding and taping is really for looks. And it ISN'T all that hard If
you are willing to live with some slightly ugly joints. Texturing can
hide a fair amount of that too. But what the heck it is a shop, not a
living room.

It is much more resistant to fire too, and will soak up MUCH less
paint. I swear OSB can soak up about a gallon a square foot (at least
it feels like it) And you would want to paint the OSB, to improve
lighting.
jk