My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse the
block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the thing
apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets that
will correct this problem?

Karl

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse
the block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the
thing apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets
that will correct this problem?

Karl



how "slightly" is "slightly burned away" - on my L head cars, erosion of the
block in the area of the manifold is common, but a proper gasket seems to do
the trick - it's quite possible that you didn't torque the manifold
correctly when you put the new one on. Note that some bolt holes are
enlongated to accommodate expansion (at least on cars), and that
overtorquing causes troubles as does lack of proper washers and hardware.
I've had a cracked manifold (on a 51 dodge) welded successfully - nickle
rod - I would expect that a good welder could build up some material if you
needed it, and then some work with a file could bring it back down to level
enough for a gasket to seal. There are also some high temperature ceramic
fillers.

If your tractor is running right, the manifold isn't "that hot" - but if the
timing is off, it can get really hot - I made a mistake on setting one of my
cars and the manifold ended up red-orange before I shut it off to figure out
what I had done wrong.

....
how "slightly" is "slightly burned away" - on my L head cars, erosion of
the block in the area of the manifold is common, but a proper gasket seems
to do

Its all pitted, I'd guess .020 deep at the worse spot, most of it much less.
About a one inch wide area.

the trick - it's quite possible that you didn't torque the manifold
correctly when you put the new one on. Note that some bolt holes are
enlongated to accommodate expansion (at least on cars), and that
overtorquing causes troubles as does lack of proper washers and hardware.
I've had a cracked manifold (on a 51 dodge) welded successfully - nickle
rod - I would expect that a good welder could build up some material if
you needed it, and then some work with a file could bring it back down to
level enough for a gasket to seal. There are also some high temperature
ceramic fillers.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/3347/=tewak

OK I went to mcmaster.com On page 3347 they list all sorts of repair
materials for high temperature. I guess I'll order high temp repair putty
part number 7356A33 unless somebody has a better idea.

Karl

I'm sure we'd like to hear how it turns out.
---won't you miss the "throaty roar"?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

Karl Townsend wrote:
...

how "slightly" is "slightly burned away" - on my L head cars, erosion of
the block in the area of the manifold is common, but a proper gasket seems
to do


Its all pitted, I'd guess .020 deep at the worse spot, most of it much less.
About a one inch wide area.


the trick - it's quite possible that you didn't torque the manifold
correctly when you put the new one on. Note that some bolt holes are
enlongated to accommodate expansion (at least on cars), and that
overtorquing causes troubles as does lack of proper washers and hardware.
I've had a cracked manifold (on a 51 dodge) welded successfully - nickle
rod - I would expect that a good welder could build up some material if
you needed it, and then some work with a file could bring it back down to
level enough for a gasket to seal. There are also some high temperature
ceramic fillers.


http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/3347/=tewak

OK I went to mcmaster.com On page 3347 they list all sorts of repair
materials for high temperature. I guess I'll order high temp repair putty
part number 7356A33 unless somebody has a better idea.

Karl

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:47:07 -0600, the infamous "Karl Townsend"
scrawled the following:

...
how "slightly" is "slightly burned away" - on my L head cars, erosion of
the block in the area of the manifold is common, but a proper gasket seems
to do

Its all pitted, I'd guess .020 deep at the worse spot, most of it much less.
About a one inch wide area.

the trick - it's quite possible that you didn't torque the manifold
correctly when you put the new one on. Note that some bolt holes are
enlongated to accommodate expansion (at least on cars), and that
overtorquing causes troubles as does lack of proper washers and hardware.
I've had a cracked manifold (on a 51 dodge) welded successfully - nickle
rod - I would expect that a good welder could build up some material if
you needed it, and then some work with a file could bring it back down to
level enough for a gasket to seal. There are also some high temperature
ceramic fillers.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/115/3347/=tewak

OK I went to mcmaster.com On page 3347 they list all sorts of repair
materials for high temperature. I guess I'll order high temp repair putty
part number 7356A33 unless somebody has a better idea.

Looks like a winner, and much better than that crap J.C. Whitney had
four decades ago. g

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-

OK I went to mcmaster.com On page 3347 they list all sorts of repair
materials for high temperature. I guess I'll order high temp repair putty
part number 7356A33 unless somebody has a better idea.


I dunno, Billy Mays says to use Mighty Putty ...

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse
the block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the
thing apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets
that will correct this problem?

Karl


Our auto parts stores generally carry a muffler or exhaust pipe repair
product which seems a lot like the "furnace cement" I used to get. It is a
putty-like stuff that works pretty good if you can get it in the crack and
allow to set. I have repaired leaky manifolds by daubing them up with this
cement and wrapping wire around it to hold it in place. You do have some
baling wire to go with that 8N, don't you? It is a required maintenance and
repair item. ;)

Don Young

Furnace cement?

-Carl (korrectly spelled)

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse
the block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the
thing apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets
that will correct this problem?

Karl

Our auto parts stores generally carry a muffler or exhaust pipe repair
product which seems a lot like the "furnace cement" I used to get. It is a
putty-like stuff that works pretty good if you can get it in the crack and
allow to set. I have repaired leaky manifolds by daubing them up with this
cement and wrapping wire around it to hold it in place. You do have some
baling wire to go with that 8N, don't you? It is a required maintenance
and repair item. ;)

I'll check with the auto parts store in the morning. My dad used the New
Holland model 68 wire baler until about 1972 when baling wire got too
expensive. My "lifetime supply" of baling wire has long been used up. Guess
I lived too long or used too much. Other wires aren't quite the same.

Karl

I've had a cracked manifold (on a 51 dodge) welded successfully - nickle
rod - I would expect that a good welder could build up some material if you
needed it, and then some work with a file could bring it back down to level
enough for a gasket to seal.

FWIW, 99% nickle rod, while expensive, is real easy to run, even on
AC. Takes about half the amperage of 7014, sticks well, and files
easily. If it weren't so expensive, I'd be tempted to use it for
everything. They often sell it in hardware stores with just a few
rods in a package for $5 or so. Beats buying a whole pound for close
to $50...
--Glenn Lyford

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 21:17:19 -0600, "Don Young"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
tanews.com...
My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse
the block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the
thing apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets
that will correct this problem?

Karl


Our auto parts stores generally carry a muffler or exhaust pipe repair
product which seems a lot like the "furnace cement" I used to get. It is a
putty-like stuff that works pretty good if you can get it in the crack and
allow to set. I have repaired leaky manifolds by daubing them up with this
cement and wrapping wire around it to hold it in place. You do have some
baling wire to go with that 8N, don't you? It is a required maintenance and
repair item. ;)


Another candidate is wood stove door gasket adhesive. It's also
similar to furnace cement, but much tougher. When I replaced the
gasket last fall on a stove I built 25 years ago I had to chip off the
old adhesive with a hammer and cold chisel. The old timey hardware
stores around here carry Rutland brand for about $7/tube.

--
Ned Simmons

On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 14:04:47 -0600, Karl Townsend wrote:

My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put
a new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so
the ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even
worse the block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I
take the thing apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets
that will correct this problem?

Karl

IIRC from looking at my Dad's 9N the "oil pan" remains a structural
member of the frame even after the block is pulled out of the tractor.

I know that our neighborhood mechanic pulled the engine out of my Dad's
and rebuilt it a few years ago, so it can't be impossible.

I suppose the really, really right way to go would be to strip it all the
way down, build up the spot with welding or brazing, then machine it down
nice and flat. On the way you can blueprint the engine.

You can get V-8 conversion kits for those, you know: http://
www.staufferv8.com/v8conversion.html. _That_ will fix it!

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Mar 1, 9:17*pm, "Don Young" wrote:
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message

anews.com... My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) *Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse
the block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the
thing apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets
that will correct this problem?

Karl

Our auto parts stores generally carry a muffler or exhaust pipe repair
product which seems a lot like the "furnace cement" I used to get. It is a
putty-like stuff that works pretty good if you can get it in the crack and
allow to set. I have repaired leaky manifolds by daubing them up with this
cement and wrapping wire around it to hold it in place. You do have some
baling wire to go with that 8N, don't you? It is a required maintenance and
repair item. ;)

Don Young

Bailing wire and duct tape...and a really BIG hammer.

TMT

You can get V-8 conversion kits for those, you know: http://
www.staufferv8.com/v8conversion.html. _That_ will fix it!

When I was young, a friend got too many wiskey tickets. So, he did this
conversion (you don't need a licence to drive a tractor) People really
looked at him funny when he passed them on the highway

When I got the manifold gaskets today, I asked the old fella in there what
he used for this problem. JB-weld was the answer. So, my JB-weld job is
drying right now.

Karl

..

The red high temp RTV silicone will last a very long time on exhaust
gaskets, especially on your block which will limit the max temp pretty well.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse
the block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the
thing apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets
that will correct this problem?

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse the
block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the thing
apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets that
will correct this problem?

Karl



Clean it VERY well and use JB Weld The standard stuff NOT the fast
setting. OR clean it very well, Hit it with some acid flux and braze it,
then file it flat. OR weld it up with some nickel rod and file that
flat. All of those can easily be done with the block installed. Stick
some rags in the ports prior to doing the repairs.

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." fired this volley in news:goi0s7$agb
:

Hit it with some acid flux and braze it,
then file it flat.

I owned and loved a 1948/49/50 8N for fifteen years. It had numerous
"prior repairs". Pretty much everything except the sheet metal (and
the replacement 9N steering pitman arm) was repaired by brazing, and
none of the repairs ever failed while I had it. The tractor is still
mowing ten acres twice a month during the growing season for the guy I
sold the ranchette to. The only "major" I had on it was when the
right axle arm broke clean off at the frame. Spares were thankfully
only a day away.

Now I have a bigger "ranchette" (20 acres), and have a 1968 air-cooled
diesel Deutz 56. It's never had the heads off (thank God!).

LLoyd

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:04:47 -0600, the infamous "Karl Townsend"
scrawled the following:

My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse the
block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the thing
apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets that
will correct this problem?

I retired from wrenching in '85 but up until then, I'd never heard of
anything which would withstand those high temps. Is it possible to
run a weld bead, then grind it flat, to fill in the gap enough that
the standard manifold gasket can seal it?

I take that first sentence back. I think there was some silvery goop
called muffler sealer way back when. I vaguely remember gooping it on
a blown exhaust pipe, wrapping it with the asbestos (real!) gauze, and
putting the tin cover around that with a hose clamp. That was on my
first car, a '57 Chebby BelAir ca. 1969, and probably my first of many
purchases from the J.C. Whitney catalog. (ancient memories!)

I wouldn't want to goop it and try to take that manifold off again,
though. Hmm, if you use that stuff, wipe some copper anti-seize on the
manifold at that point. Then pray that it works like a mold release
agent in case you ever have to go back in there.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-

There is very high temp wood stove gasket RTV - it is fortified and is RED.

That might be a concept.

Martin

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:04:47 -0600, the infamous "Karl Townsend"
scrawled the following:

My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse the
block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the thing
apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets that
will correct this problem?

I retired from wrenching in '85 but up until then, I'd never heard of
anything which would withstand those high temps. Is it possible to
run a weld bead, then grind it flat, to fill in the gap enough that
the standard manifold gasket can seal it?

I take that first sentence back. I think there was some silvery goop
called muffler sealer way back when. I vaguely remember gooping it on
a blown exhaust pipe, wrapping it with the asbestos (real!) gauze, and
putting the tin cover around that with a hose clamp. That was on my
first car, a '57 Chebby BelAir ca. 1969, and probably my first of many
purchases from the J.C. Whitney catalog. (ancient memories!)

I wouldn't want to goop it and try to take that manifold off again,
though. Hmm, if you use that stuff, wipe some copper anti-seize on the
manifold at that point. Then pray that it works like a mold release
agent in case you ever have to go back in there.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-

The Red HI-Temp silicone is the best, but I've even had good luck with
the regular bathtub (silicone)---You might want to form a little
screenwire into a pill that would reinforce the rubber if the blow-out
is very large.


Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
There is very high temp wood stove gasket RTV - it is fortified and is RED.

That might be a concept.

Martin

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:04:47 -0600, the infamous "Karl Townsend"
scrawled the following:

My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot.
The metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago,
I put a new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head
engine so the ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make
matters even worse the block on a tractor is the frame support also.
No way can I take the thing apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold
gaskets that will correct this problem?

I retired from wrenching in '85 but up until then, I'd never heard of
anything which would withstand those high temps. Is it possible to
run a weld bead, then grind it flat, to fill in the gap enough that
the standard manifold gasket can seal it?

I take that first sentence back. I think there was some silvery goop
called muffler sealer way back when. I vaguely remember gooping it on
a blown exhaust pipe, wrapping it with the asbestos (real!) gauze, and
putting the tin cover around that with a hose clamp. That was on my
first car, a '57 Chebby BelAir ca. 1969, and probably my first of many
purchases from the J.C. Whitney catalog. (ancient memories!)

I wouldn't want to goop it and try to take that manifold off again,
though. Hmm, if you use that stuff, wipe some copper anti-seize on the
manifold at that point. Then pray that it works like a mold release
agent in case you ever have to go back in there.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:04:47 -0600, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

My 8N ford tractor has a loud clatter...

I found the cause, the exhaust gasket has blown out in a small spot. The
metal in the block is slightly burned away. ( a couple years ago, I put a
new manifold on so its in good shape here) Its a flat head engine so the
ports are in the block not on the heads. And to make matters even worse the
block on a tractor is the frame support also. No way can I take the thing
apart enough to re-machine this surface.

So, do they make some sort of gasket goo to add to the manifold gaskets that
will correct this problem?

Karl



Well, everybody else has had their say, but my experience with the
red, black, and blue "high -temperature" RTV goo was that they WILL
NOT withstand the temps at the manifold - at least not on my old
Panhead.

I was cutting pieces of brass shim stock to eliminate the leaks on the
old "clamp the pipe around the header boss" system (lots of popping
when I let off the throttle), and sealing the rest with RTV. The above
compounds all got brittle and blew out in a few days.

What I did find that worked was a Copper-colored high-temp RTV (from
Permatex, IIRC) that held fine for several years. Whereas most RTV
smells of acetic acid, this stuff had an odor similar to latex paint.

Best bet is , as others said, to create good mating surfaces, but I
didn't have that option, and you might not, either.

Joe