Control and profits.

Under recent changes, sellers may only accept PayPal payments (PayPal being
part of eBay's company), with a few exceptions (or a couple of different
electronic transfers).

I only mention this here in RCM because eBay is the channel that many of us
acquire our cool stuff thru.

Some sellers are really ****y about payments, some say payment due within 2
days, many say confirmed addresses only (even though PayPal seller
protection has been extended to include buyers with unconfirmed addresses,
as I was notified Oct 31 '08).
My bank and utility statements go to a PO Box (not a shady, privately-owned
drop box), so my address isn't confirmed for FedEx or UPS.

The UPS system doesn't stop PO Box addresses from being entered into the
system (at least not thru thru the eBay/UPS portal for printing shipping
labels), so I've had to tell a couple of sellers that I informed them of my
street address in my correspondence (which they chose to ignore), so, to
have the package intercepted costs the seller an additional $10 (heheh), and
generates more revenue for UPS.

Some sellers insist on using UPS when USPS gives away new boxes/packaging
for Priority Mail, and USPS can pick up packages, too.
In my experience, UPS is slow and wreckless, damaging about 40% of my
packages.
But some sellers insist on using battered, used boxes that burst or destroy
the contents, by sending them UPS.
So what?

A UPS claim means the damaged product goes back to the seller, and the buyer
waits for a settlement (try to get a receipt for the merchandise from a
driver when you give it back to him/her), in which the end result may be
that UPS declares the package a "bad pack", no payment.
So you ask/squeeze/force the seller for a refund. Wasted effort over weeks
of waiting, but you get a refund made by the seller or PayPal.

I'm not apprehensive about using PayPal for payments, I've had a Personal/no
fees account almost as long as I've been eBaying, 1999 maybe.
I expect the no fees agreement to be charged fees before long. That will be
the last straw.

Ebay has made countless worthless/damaging changes to try to convince
everyone that there is no risk in doing business with a stranger online.
They want the control AOL imposes on it's members, only to try to insure
that fraud is non-existent.

Thieves are going to get in and make money on the eBay name, but they think
they'll be able to stop them.

Ebay, where they're working hard 24/7 to **** up a good business. Oh well,
maybe Microsoft will buy it.

In general, most eBayers are honest folks. Many others are just afraid of
what might happen if they **** off the watchdogs.

Both eBay and PayPal have settled claims for me, although I hate the
processing and persistence required to finalize a claim. Ebay or PayPal gave
me $100 last year out-of-the-blue because I had filed a claim.
That wasn't the settlement, just a kind-of apology from eBay or PayPal
(can't remember which, doesn't matter, since they are one), which was
followed up with an apologetic phone call (which also included several
questions about my overall satisfaction with doing business on eBay and if I
trusted PayPal).

I'd bet some tightwads are fuming or drooling over that, but I had
consistently been spending some serious moola at the time.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

"Wild_Bill" wrote:
Control and profits.

Under recent changes, sellers may only accept PayPal payments (PayPal
being part of eBay's company), with a few exceptions (or a couple of
different electronic transfers).

I only mention this here in RCM because eBay is the channel that many of
us acquire our cool stuff thru.
[snip]

I've never had a problem buying from ebay sellers that I couldn't resolve by
talking to the seller myself. Also, I've never had a problem selling things
on ebay.

Ebay wasn't broken, but they are working hard to fix that.

Jon

eBay is working hard to **** off as many people as possible and on
squeezing every dollar out of buyers and sellers. They always disguise
it as "improving buyer experience"or some crap like this.

Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number from
UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item picked up in
described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are demanding that
I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud. All so that they
can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

On Dec 1, 8:52*am, Ignoramus14497 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14497.invalid wrote:
Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number from
UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item picked up in
described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are demanding that
I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud. All so that they
can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

dennis
in nca

On 2008-12-01, rigger wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:52?am, Ignoramus14497 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14497.invalid wrote:
Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number from
UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item picked up in
described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are demanding that
I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud. All so that they
can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

Dennis, yes, I think that it does help.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

rigger wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:52?am, Ignoramus14497 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14497.invalid wrote:
Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number from
UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item picked up in
described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are demanding that
I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud. All so that they
can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

Why not just take cash and be done with it? What's a copy of a drivers
license going to do for you?

I've encountered many more problems recently as a buyer, than I did when I
was selling (quite a while ago). The main problem lately is sellers stating
something is new, only to find out it's just a used POS, sometimes with
accessories missing.

The main issue I have with forced PayPal payments (other than being forced)
is that this change guarantees that eBay gets paid twice for every
transaction, once for the sale of the item and again for the payment
(including a percentage of the shipping/handling costs).

All the small sellers, which are the ones out finding the really interesting
stuff to sell on eBay, are getting properly fuct.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
"Wild_Bill" wrote:
Control and profits.

Under recent changes, sellers may only accept PayPal payments (PayPal
being part of eBay's company), with a few exceptions (or a couple of
different electronic transfers).

I only mention this here in RCM because eBay is the channel that many of
us acquire our cool stuff thru.
[snip]

I've never had a problem buying from ebay sellers that I couldn't resolve
by
talking to the seller myself. Also, I've never had a problem selling
things
on ebay.

Ebay wasn't broken, but they are working hard to fix that.

Jon

Cydrome Leader wrote:
rigger wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:52?am, Ignoramus14497 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14497.invalid wrote:
Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number
from UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item
picked up in described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are
demanding that I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud.
All so that they can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

Why not just take cash and be done with it? What's a copy of a drivers
license going to do for you?

Show proof of who picked it up ! Even if they pay cash , ebay/paypal can
make you refund the money to their account .
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills

Terry Coombs wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:
rigger wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:52?am, Ignoramus14497 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14497.invalid wrote:
Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number
from UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item
picked up in described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are
demanding that I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud.
All so that they can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

Why not just take cash and be done with it? What's a copy of a drivers
license going to do for you?

Show proof of who picked it up ! Even if they pay cash , ebay/paypal can
make you refund the money to their account .

paypal will make you refund money they never changed hands in the first
place?

How does this work?

Cydrome Leader wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:
rigger wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:52?am, Ignoramus14497 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14497.invalid wrote:
Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me
no seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and
later claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they
would refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking
number from UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements
"item picked up in described condition" mean nothing to them. So
they are demanding that I accept payments and expose myself to
buyer fraud. All so that they can make extra bucks on the paypal
fees.

i

I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

Why not just take cash and be done with it? What's a copy of a
drivers license going to do for you?

Show proof of who picked it up ! Even if they pay cash ,
ebay/paypal can make you refund the money to their account .

paypal will make you refund money they never changed hands in the
first place?

How does this work?

He tells ebay he never received the item . ebay forces the refund ... not
sure if it matters that he didn't pay thru paypal .
I could be wrong , I have been before ...
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills

On 2008-12-01, Terry Coombs wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:
rigger wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:52?am, Ignoramus14497 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14497.invalid wrote:
Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number
from UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item
picked up in described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are
demanding that I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud.
All so that they can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

Why not just take cash and be done with it? What's a copy of a drivers
license going to do for you?

Show proof of who picked it up ! Even if they pay cash , ebay/paypal can
make you refund the money to their account .

I used to do what Cydrome leader suggested, which is to specify "cash
only on local pickup". I believe that this is no longer acceptable.

Indeed, if they pay cash, they cannot get a refund from ebay or
paypal, but only have recourse to the seller. Usually, on local
pickups they are able to ascertain the condition of the item so that
there are no disputes later.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

"Ignoramus14497" wrote in message
...
On 2008-12-01, Terry Coombs wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:
rigger wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:52?am, Ignoramus14497 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14497.invalid wrote:
Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number
from UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item
picked up in described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are
demanding that I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud.
All so that they can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

Why not just take cash and be done with it? What's a copy of a drivers
license going to do for you?

Show proof of who picked it up ! Even if they pay cash , ebay/paypal
can
make you refund the money to their account .

I used to do what Cydrome leader suggested, which is to specify "cash
only on local pickup". I believe that this is no longer acceptable.

Indeed, if they pay cash, they cannot get a refund from ebay or
paypal, but only have recourse to the seller. Usually, on local
pickups they are able to ascertain the condition of the item so that
there are no disputes later.

I used to have quite a few eBay customers that would mail me a check and I
very seldom waited for the check to clear before I shipped and never had a
problem. Now most of those guys (old farmers) don't trust Paypal and just
quit buying. eBay just sucks now.
Steve

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:35:04 -0500, the infamous "Wild_Bill"
scrawled the following:

I've encountered many more problems recently as a buyer, than I did when I
was selling (quite a while ago). The main problem lately is sellers stating
something is new, only to find out it's just a used POS, sometimes with
accessories missing.

Ooh, that sucks. Other than a few items (out of close to 300
purchases) I've had very good luck with product condition and
description.

There was the broken handle on a hand plane (in 2 pieces, not "slight
crack" as she stated, and she then negged me after I 'neutraled' her),
a corroded mister, and this recent broken CD. I got refunds on the
latter two and wrote off the first as a bitch on wheels.


The main issue I have with forced PayPal payments (other than being forced)
is that this change guarantees that eBay gets paid twice for every
transaction, once for the sale of the item and again for the payment
(including a percentage of the shipping/handling costs).

Yeah, I wasn't too comfy with that turn of events, either. Too
monopolous. The recent raise in fees across the board didn't help win
them any friend, either.


All the small sellers, which are the ones out finding the really interesting
stuff to sell on eBay, are getting properly fuct.

I ordered a book (or thought I did) last week and then found out that
it was an ebook, not paper. I immediately cancelled the sale but the
seller had been too quick. He packed it and mailed it within 20
minutes of my purchasr. Anyway, he said it was OK to return it and
he'd give all my money back, including original shipping fees, if I
returned it. The disc arrived broken and, very professionally, he
simply told me to toss it and he refunded my money.

A question about today's eBay Stores: I have some items to sell
online. Is the $9.95/mo store worth the price? 20 at a time is OK by
me. Who's using their store nowadays and how do you like it?

--
The only difference between a rut and a grave...is in their dimensions.
-- Ellen Glasglow

"Jon Danniken" wrote:

I've never had a problem buying from ebay sellers that I couldn't resolve by
talking to the seller myself. Also, I've never had a problem selling things
on ebay.

If you use ebay to communicate electronically and leave your phone number the seller can
verify your address by doing a telephone number reverse lookup at anywho.com and call you
back.

Wes

Ignoramus14497 wrote:

Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I've bought a few things where I picked up the item in person. I'm bringing a postal
money order or check depending our relationship. Why should I give paypal a cut of this?
I'm not going to hand over the money if I'm not happy with what I'm intending to pick up?

WEs

Wild_Bill wrote:
I've encountered many more problems recently as a buyer, than I did
when I was selling (quite a while ago). The main problem lately is
sellers stating something is new, only to find out it's just a used
POS, sometimes with accessories missing.

The main issue I have with forced PayPal payments (other than being
forced) is that this change guarantees that eBay gets paid twice for
every transaction, once for the sale of the item and again for the
payment (including a percentage of the shipping/handling costs).

All the small sellers, which are the ones out finding the really
interesting stuff to sell on eBay, are getting properly fuct.


"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
"Wild_Bill" wrote:
Control and profits.

Under recent changes, sellers may only accept PayPal payments
(PayPal being part of eBay's company), with a few exceptions (or a
couple of different electronic transfers).

I only mention this here in RCM because eBay is the channel that
many of us acquire our cool stuff thru.
[snip]

I've never had a problem buying from ebay sellers that I couldn't
resolve by
talking to the seller myself. Also, I've never had a problem selling
things
on ebay.

Ebay wasn't broken, but they are working hard to fix that.


The small sellers are being totally forced out. I calculated the EBay cut
for small items to be in the region of 35-40% if you add the insertion fees,
final value fees and PayPal cut. It's just not worth it!

Other stuff they introduced is the maximum shipping charges on some items,
notably books. I sold a few of those but will not do so any more as the
maxima are well below the current postal charges from Canada.

Finally, as a result of all this or not, there are very few bargains now to
be had on EBay. I was looking for some stuff for my mill and found I could
buy it cheaper from established bone-fide dealers.

The reasons to use EBay are getting to be less and less.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:49:21 -0600, "Up North"
wrote:


"Ignoramus14497" wrote in message
m...
On 2008-12-01, Terry Coombs wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:
rigger wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:52?am, Ignoramus14497 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14497.invalid wrote:
Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number
from UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item
picked up in described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are
demanding that I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud.
All so that they can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

Why not just take cash and be done with it? What's a copy of a drivers
license going to do for you?

Show proof of who picked it up ! Even if they pay cash , ebay/paypal
can
make you refund the money to their account .

I used to do what Cydrome leader suggested, which is to specify "cash
only on local pickup". I believe that this is no longer acceptable.

Indeed, if they pay cash, they cannot get a refund from ebay or
paypal, but only have recourse to the seller. Usually, on local
pickups they are able to ascertain the condition of the item so that
there are no disputes later.

I used to have quite a few eBay customers that would mail me a check and I
very seldom waited for the check to clear before I shipped and never had a
problem. Now most of those guys (old farmers) don't trust Paypal and just
quit buying. eBay just sucks now.
Steve


Sounds like me. Looks like I'm done with ebay. I haven't been on
there in a while anyway.

Pete Keillor

On 2008-12-01, Up North wrote:

"Ignoramus14497" wrote in message
...
On 2008-12-01, Terry Coombs wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:
rigger wrote:
On Dec 1, 8:52?am, Ignoramus14497 ignoramus14...@NOSPAM.
14497.invalid wrote:
Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number
from UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item
picked up in described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are
demanding that I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud.
All so that they can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

Why not just take cash and be done with it? What's a copy of a drivers
license going to do for you?

Show proof of who picked it up ! Even if they pay cash , ebay/paypal
can
make you refund the money to their account .

I used to do what Cydrome leader suggested, which is to specify "cash
only on local pickup". I believe that this is no longer acceptable.

Indeed, if they pay cash, they cannot get a refund from ebay or
paypal, but only have recourse to the seller. Usually, on local
pickups they are able to ascertain the condition of the item so that
there are no disputes later.

I used to have quite a few eBay customers that would mail me a check and I
very seldom waited for the check to clear before I shipped and never had a
problem. Now most of those guys (old farmers) don't trust Paypal and just
quit buying. eBay just sucks now.

Same here.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On 2008-12-02, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus14497 wrote:

Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I've bought a few things where I picked up the item in person. I'm
bringing a postal money order or check depending our relationship.
Why should I give paypal a cut of this? I'm not going to hand over
the money if I'm not happy with what I'm intending to pick up?

Exactly how I see it. What I like about local pickups, as a seller, is


1) cash
2) Being able to show everything to the buyer
3) no packing and shipping
4) meeting fun people. I have a great relationship with a few of my buyers
5) being able to sell them more stuff
6) not paying paypal

When I list on craigslist, I usually discount stuff 20% from what I
think they would sell on ebay. I would rather have the buyer get the
savings.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:52:42 -0600, Ignoramus14497
wrote:

Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number from
UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item picked up in
described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are demanding that
I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud. All so that they
can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

Pay upon pickup is still OK

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/methods.html

note the last paragraph under "Pay upon pickup"
drivers license copy is probably a good idea, and a picture of the
item loaded on the buyers truck. (get the plate in the picture)

Mailing a check/MO seems to be verbotin. One could always arrange to
mail a payment and have the item shipped if the seller listed pick-up
as an option. Seller could not go through ebay or paypal shipping
though.....


Listed my surface grinder for sale a week ago, then found out any
"machine" is a $25.00 fee. I will not list it again, most likely
going to the scrap yard.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:45:14 -0500, the infamous Pete Keillor
scrawled the following:

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:49:21 -0600, "Up North"
wrote:

I used to have quite a few eBay customers that would mail me a check and I
very seldom waited for the check to clear before I shipped and never had a
problem. Now most of those guys (old farmers) don't trust Paypal and just
quit buying. eBay just sucks now.
Steve


Sounds like me. Looks like I'm done with ebay. I haven't been on
there in a while anyway.

I continue to find excellent buys at eBay in a vast array of niches:
clothes, hardware, software, electronics, computer, books, music,
woodworking, metalworking, etc., but I hate what they're becoming.
Damn, how can they continue shooting themselves in the feet like that?
They're -voluntarily- expunging millions of loyal customers. Maroons.

After hearing horror stories (nobody I know has ever had a problem
with account freezes from them) about PayPal, I opened a separate free
bank account specifically for PayPal. No problems in 6 years with
that, either.

--
The only difference between a rut and a grave...is in their dimensions.
-- Ellen Glasglow

The rules and restrictions for selling are approaching the dumbfoundedness
of the US tax code.

It's been said before that the direction eBay is choosing, is to be a huge
membership of high volume power sellers, that in reality offer nothing but
throw-away cheap crap, that I can get locally if I wanted it.

I do enjoy finding a lot of cool crap that the smaller sellers pick up at
places I can't get to (an auction/liquidation across the country).

When the interesting stuff is gone because the smaller sellers are forced
out, eBay will very likely become an online version of a Chinese city
marketplace.

But then again (most of ?) American consumerism is about buying products
that insure the job security of the waste management companies.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:45:14 -0500, the infamous Pete Keillor
scrawled the following:


Sounds like me. Looks like I'm done with ebay. I haven't been on
there in a while anyway.

I continue to find excellent buys at eBay in a vast array of niches:
clothes, hardware, software, electronics, computer, books, music,
woodworking, metalworking, etc., but I hate what they're becoming.
Damn, how can they continue shooting themselves in the feet like that?
They're -voluntarily- expunging millions of loyal customers. Maroons.

After hearing horror stories (nobody I know has ever had a problem
with account freezes from them) about PayPal, I opened a separate free
bank account specifically for PayPal. No problems in 6 years with
that, either.

--
The only difference between a rut and a grave...is in their dimensions.
-- Ellen Glasglow

On 2008-12-02, Randy wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:52:42 -0600, Ignoramus14497
wrote:

Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number from
UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item picked up in
described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are demanding that
I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud. All so that they
can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

Pay upon pickup is still OK

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/methods.html

note the last paragraph under "Pay upon pickup"
drivers license copy is probably a good idea, and a picture of the
item loaded on the buyers truck. (get the plate in the picture)

Mailing a check/MO seems to be verbotin. One could always arrange to
mail a payment and have the item shipped if the seller listed pick-up
as an option. Seller could not go through ebay or paypal shipping
though.....

It is OK to accept cash on pickup. What is NOT OK is refusing to take
a paypal payment for pickup.

i


Listed my surface grinder for sale a week ago, then found out any
"machine" is a $25.00 fee. I will not list it again, most likely
going to the scrap yard.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Randy wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:52:42 -0600, Ignoramus14497
wrote:

Here is why I hate the "paypal only" policy despite accepting
paypal.

I sell a lot of stuff that is picked up locally. Paypal gives me no
seller protection if a buyer pays via paypal, picks up, and later
claims that "item was not delivered". In such a case, they would
refund the buyer without question. They require a tracking number from
UPS or USPS as proof of delivery. Signed statements "item picked up in
described condition" mean nothing to them. So they are demanding that
I accept payments and expose myself to buyer fraud. All so that they
can make extra bucks on the paypal fees.

i

Pay upon pickup is still OK

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/methods.html

note the last paragraph under "Pay upon pickup"
drivers license copy is probably a good idea, and a picture of the
item loaded on the buyers truck. (get the plate in the picture)

Mailing a check/MO seems to be verbotin. One could always arrange to
mail a payment and have the item shipped if the seller listed pick-up
as an option. Seller could not go through ebay or paypal shipping
though.....


Listed my surface grinder for sale a week ago, then found out any
"machine" is a $25.00 fee. I will not list it again, most likely
going to the scrap yard.

Thank You,
Randy


What amazes me is that they are breaking federal laws by saying that you
cannot use any other payment methods. I'm surprised that it hasn't been
taken to court yet.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!

It's all essentially a big cluster**** to increase eBay/PayPal's control and
profits, IMO.
There are some payment exceptions, and a couple of options.

They/It don't require buyers to have a (funds) balance sitting in a PayPal
account, a buyer can use a credit card or a couple of other electronic
traceable methods.

But then some sellers insist on Immediate Payment Required, which I mostly
avoid, so I'm not sure what the specific time, or other requirements there
are for those purchases.

A transfer of funds from a bank account to a PayPal account (no fee
involved) takes about 4 days, which might be more secure than using a credit
card over 'n over again, to make payments to strangers.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Steve W." wrote in message
...

What amazes me is that they are breaking federal laws by saying that you
cannot use any other payment methods. I'm surprised that it hasn't been
taken to court yet.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!

I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that "Michael Koblic"
wrote on Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:29:30 -0800 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
The small sellers are being totally forced out. I calculated the EBay cut
for small items to be in the region of 35-40% if you add the insertion fees,
final value fees and PayPal cut. It's just not worth it!

Other stuff they introduced is the maximum shipping charges on some items,
notably books. I sold a few of those but will not do so any more as the
maxima are well below the current postal charges from Canada.

Finally, as a result of all this or not, there are very few bargains now to
be had on EBay. I was looking for some stuff for my mill and found I could
buy it cheaper from established bone-fide dealers.

The reasons to use EBay are getting to be less and less.

Dang. I've just moved, I'm unpacking books which have been in
storage for years, books I've decided I don't really want. A couple
series which are of the sort that have a loyal, but small, following.
Advertising them "to the world" beats trying to hold a yard sale.
But it looks like I'll just take them to local used book store,
and save the hassle.

pyotr


--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Ignoramus14497 wrote:



I didn't know thing were that shakey. If I have someone
do a pick-up in the future I'll be sure to have them sign
beneath a copy of their drivers license. That might help.

Dennis, yes, I think that it does help.

I NEVER ever let anyone make a copy of my DL
jk

"Wild_Bill" wrote:

But then some sellers insist on Immediate Payment Required, which I mostly
avoid, so I'm not sure what the specific time, or other requirements there
are for those purchases.

I've never had a problem e-mailing a seller and asking if they would take a
non-payscam payment, even when they list it as such. A few have ignored the
request, and lost my business, but everyone else has said, "sure, no
problem." I do send payment the day after the auction closes, and inform
them of such, which reduces the amount of hassle they have to deal with.

It never hurts to ask.

Jon

On 2008-12-02, pyotr filipivich wrote:
I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that "Michael Koblic"
wrote on Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:29:30 -0800 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
The small sellers are being totally forced out. I calculated the EBay cut
for small items to be in the region of 35-40% if you add the insertion fees,
final value fees and PayPal cut. It's just not worth it!

Other stuff they introduced is the maximum shipping charges on some items,
notably books. I sold a few of those but will not do so any more as the
maxima are well below the current postal charges from Canada.

Finally, as a result of all this or not, there are very few bargains now to
be had on EBay. I was looking for some stuff for my mill and found I could
buy it cheaper from established bone-fide dealers.

The reasons to use EBay are getting to be less and less.

Dang. I've just moved, I'm unpacking books which have been in
storage for years, books I've decided I don't really want. A couple
series which are of the sort that have a loyal, but small, following.
Advertising them "to the world" beats trying to hold a yard sale.
But it looks like I'll just take them to local used book store,
and save the hassle.

you can sell them at amazon

pyotr



--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:52:02 -0800, the infamous "Jon Danniken"
scrawled the following:

"Wild_Bill" wrote:

But then some sellers insist on Immediate Payment Required, which I mostly
avoid, so I'm not sure what the specific time, or other requirements there
are for those purchases.

I've never had a problem e-mailing a seller and asking if they would take a
non-payscam payment, even when they list it as such. A few have ignored the
request, and lost my business, but everyone else has said, "sure, no
problem." I do send payment the day after the auction closes, and inform
them of such, which reduces the amount of hassle they have to deal with.

It never hurts to ask.

I've asked before bidding, and many which say "No PayPal" will accept
it when asked specifically. Occasionally, I've bid and then seen that
they wanted a money order as payment. Most will accept Paypal or a
check if asked, too, and they won't wait 10 days before shipping. My
long eBay history helps, I'm sure.

--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Not making payments by PayPal now, is one of the issues with the change.

If transactions are taking place with no electronic record of being paid
(funds transfer), is likely that software can detect/track/monitor and alert
for these conditions.
I suspect this is why the changes were put into place, and/or at least what
PayPal's intentions are (the detecting/tracking with software part).

It would be my guess that this exact situation is going to sneak up on
sellers and buyers.

Even if sellers can get away with accepting other forms of payment, the
seller will still be responsible for paying PayPal fees for the transaction.
Here again, having a tranaction fee without a record of a funds transfer can
very likely be detected/monitored by software.

I can see a bypass though, if the item doesn't sell at the end of the
auction.. particularly if contact is established previously.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
"Wild_Bill" wrote:

But then some sellers insist on Immediate Payment Required, which I
mostly avoid, so I'm not sure what the specific time, or other
requirements there are for those purchases.

I've never had a problem e-mailing a seller and asking if they would take
a non-payscam payment, even when they list it as such. A few have ignored
the request, and lost my business, but everyone else has said, "sure, no
problem." I do send payment the day after the auction closes, and inform
them of such, which reduces the amount of hassle they have to deal with.

It never hurts to ask.

Jon

On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:32:47 -0800, jk wrote:



I NEVER ever let anyone make a copy of my DL
jk

Why? Is there a real potential problem, say if the copy is a B&W (like
at a doctor's office),
or just a personal preference,
or just paranoia?

I am curious. I realize a good color copy might lead to an easy
identity theft, but if the copy is a crappy reproduction, then what?

Joe

I NEVER ever let anyone make a copy of my DL

I am curious. I realize a good color copy might lead to an easy
identity theft, but if the copy is a crappy reproduction, then what?

If someone is all set up to produce plausible looking fake ID's
including all the decals and holograms, all they really need is the
data. Your data, their photo, and away they go...
--Glenn Lyford

I was watching to see if anyone commented on having a store, but haven't
seen any replies.

At one time, the stores were free (or nearly), and recently, a friend had
said they are fairly costly now. Fees in layers, essentially, which is
another similarity to taxes.

Store items initially weren't included in general search results. Then store
items were included in search results, and the fees started stacking up.

I haven't been selling in several years, and I'm not inclined to start,
although I would have been selling all along if there weren't so many
regularly added restrictions, rules (oh, policies) and fees.

My most outrageously profitable sales were items bought on, and later resold
on eBay.
I'm talking hilariously wild profits with buyers that were happy to get such
a good deal (not deceiving suckers into buying crap). Fairly common items,
not rare art/coins etc, and not dumpster recovery.
Looking up information for descriptions (if needed), good pictures and
detailed descriptions were a bit tedious at times, but not hard work (mouse
keyboard stuff, sitting in a chair at a desk). I wasn't out working hard to
find stuff.

I wasn't loose with word meanings or stretch/embelish/bull****/lie about the
condition of stuff, like many sellers do.
I wasn't following any sales program or particularly talented, and didn't
know anything that wasn't more-or-less common sense. I presented enough
honest information so the buyer could know what to expect when they opened
the box, without any disappointment (and sometimes a bonus of a couple extra
items, which goes a long way toward having a happy buyer - added value, who
doesn't appreciate that?).

I've been tellin folks for many years that the US is the land of surplus
(has been, since at least the post-WWII era). Connect that supply to the
most overindulgent buyers on earth, and see if you can loose money.

I wonder if most folks get more than 5% interest on their savings accounts.
The rational expectation of 100-1000% anywhere, by legal means may seem
idiotic, until it's experienced.
I know $2 can become $30, $40, $400 and $50, $2000 fairly easily and fairly
quickly (not having it sit in an eBay store for 3 months to years, waiting
for someone desperate enough to pay a stupid price for it).

Ebay was an avenue to great potential for opportunity at one time, maybe
something more reasonable will start up. Yahoo tried it for a while, I don't
know how long it lasted. There are many other places to sell stuff online,
but the sheer numbers of drooling, itchy buyers of eBay probably won't be
matched for quite a while.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:35:04 -0500, the infamous "Wild_Bill"
scrawled the following:

I've encountered many more problems recently as a buyer, than I did when I
was selling (quite a while ago). The main problem lately is sellers
stating
something is new, only to find out it's just a used POS, sometimes with
accessories missing.

Ooh, that sucks. Other than a few items (out of close to 300
purchases) I've had very good luck with product condition and
description.

There was the broken handle on a hand plane (in 2 pieces, not "slight
crack" as she stated, and she then negged me after I 'neutraled' her),
a corroded mister, and this recent broken CD. I got refunds on the
latter two and wrote off the first as a bitch on wheels.


The main issue I have with forced PayPal payments (other than being
forced)
is that this change guarantees that eBay gets paid twice for every
transaction, once for the sale of the item and again for the payment
(including a percentage of the shipping/handling costs).

Yeah, I wasn't too comfy with that turn of events, either. Too
monopolous. The recent raise in fees across the board didn't help win
them any friend, either.


All the small sellers, which are the ones out finding the really
interesting
stuff to sell on eBay, are getting properly fuct.

I ordered a book (or thought I did) last week and then found out that
it was an ebook, not paper. I immediately cancelled the sale but the
seller had been too quick. He packed it and mailed it within 20
minutes of my purchasr. Anyway, he said it was OK to return it and
he'd give all my money back, including original shipping fees, if I
returned it. The disc arrived broken and, very professionally, he
simply told me to toss it and he refunded my money.

A question about today's eBay Stores: I have some items to sell
online. Is the $9.95/mo store worth the price? 20 at a time is OK by
me. Who's using their store nowadays and how do you like it?

--
The only difference between a rut and a grave...is in their dimensions.
-- Ellen Glasglow

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:53:36 -0500, the infamous "Wild_Bill"
scrawled the following:

I was watching to see if anyone commented on having a store, but haven't
seen any replies.

Yeah, I'm considering the $10/mo store (20 items at a time, max) and
asked last week, but didn't see any replies, either.


At one time, the stores were free (or nearly), and recently, a friend had
said they are fairly costly now. Fees in layers, essentially, which is
another similarity to taxes.

eBay is saying "We're Gods. PAY UP!"
To that notion, I say "UP YOURS!"


My most outrageously profitable sales were items bought on, and later resold
on eBay.

That's great.


Ebay was an avenue to great potential for opportunity at one time, maybe
something more reasonable will start up. Yahoo tried it for a while, I don't
know how long it lasted. There are many other places to sell stuff online,
but the sheer numbers of drooling, itchy buyers of eBay probably won't be
matched for quite a while.

It still is, but its value and utility are now greatly diminished.
RIP, eBay.

--
Smell is a potent wizard that transports you across
thousands of miles and all the years you have lived.
-- Helen Keller