I've been playing with a Taig 2019 mini mill for a while now, and its fun,
but for hogging out any real amounts of metal I need to keep a constant
spray of oil on my cutter. WD-40 works pretty darn good. So far I have
just stood there metering WD-40 onto my cutter with a standard spray can,
but that is getting old. Especially on longer cuts.

I can buy it by the gallon for a pretty reasonable price, but still I hate
to just waste it, and of course I need a way to dispense it, and maybe to
recover it too. I was thinking to just weld up a big catch tray out of
aluminum to go under the mil. Drill a hole in one corner and put a pipe
down to a bucket to catch the oil, and then pump it back up to a nozzle on
the side of my cutting head. Here are my thoughts. Put a stainless screen
over the pan drain hole to keep the big pieces out of the bucket, and then
maybe under that in the top of the pipe loosely stuff in some cheese cloth
to filter out the smaller particles.

Then I need to figure out a good pump to use to bring the oil back out of
the bucket and to the nozzle at the cutting head. I was thinking a five
gallon utility bucket with the lid snapped on would be a good sump, but I
would like to leave it on the floor under my work bench so as to minimize
the chances of knocking it over and wasting 20-40 dollars worth of oil. Of
course I need a pump then that can lift the oil 3-4 feet safely and have
some decent pressure at the head to be able to spray chips off and keep the
cutting point cool. I figure a fuel pump might work, but I do not know if
it will have the volume or pressure to do the job. A water cooler pump
would have the volume, but maybe not the pressure, and I do not know if
those pumps are explosion proof since they are designed to work in a water
environment, not a flammable environment.

Suggestions? Last time I checked a generic electric fuel pump was about $40
retail.

P.S. The Taig specifically says not to use water based coolants.

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com

On 2008-11-22, Bob La Londe wrote:
Suggestions? Last time I checked a generic electric fuel pump was about $40
retail.

A lot easier to buy a working coolant system on ebay. You can also
look into buying a misting cooler.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

"Ignoramus20688" wrote in message
...
On 2008-11-22, Bob La Londe wrote:
Suggestions? Last time I checked a generic electric fuel pump was about
$40
retail.

A lot easier to buy a working coolant system on ebay. You can also
look into buying a misting cooler.

Like this? http://tinyurl.com/5dlmzc

Looks nice, and I like the pneumatic for pressure. Would make it a lot
easier to get the pressure and volume you want, but it does nothing for
recovery. In fact by using a pressurized tank you would have to do recovery
as totally separate and non-automated process. I probably won't buy one,
but I may make one now that I have seen that. Maybe set up a recovery
reservoir with a float switch that does an auto shutdown when my recovery
reservoir gets to about 1/2 the capacity of the oiler. Then I'ld never run
out of oil if I walked in the office to get a soda and got distracted.

Mister? I guess you could do it with a venturi style pickup instead of a
pressurize tank, and then just play with your pickup and nozzle size to get
a nice spray.



--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their
inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On 2008-11-23, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ignoramus20688" wrote in message
...
On 2008-11-22, Bob La Londe wrote:
Suggestions? Last time I checked a generic electric fuel pump was about
$40
retail.

A lot easier to buy a working coolant system on ebay. You can also
look into buying a misting cooler.

Like this? http://tinyurl.com/5dlmzc

I was thinking along the lines of what I sold a while ago:

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/mis...-Coolant-Unit/

i

Looks nice, and I like the pneumatic for pressure. Would make it a lot
easier to get the pressure and volume you want, but it does nothing for
recovery. In fact by using a pressurized tank you would have to do recovery
as totally separate and non-automated process. I probably won't buy one,
but I may make one now that I have seen that. Maybe set up a recovery
reservoir with a float switch that does an auto shutdown when my recovery
reservoir gets to about 1/2 the capacity of the oiler. Then I'ld never run
out of oil if I walked in the office to get a soda and got distracted.

Mister? I guess you could do it with a venturi style pickup instead of a
pressurize tank, and then just play with your pickup and nozzle size to get
a nice spray.





--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ignoramus20688" wrote in
message ...
On 2008-11-22, Bob La Londe wrote:
Suggestions? Last time I checked a generic electric fuel pump was
about $40
retail.

A lot easier to buy a working coolant system on ebay. You can also
look into buying a misting cooler.

Like this? http://tinyurl.com/5dlmzc

Looks nice, and I like the pneumatic for pressure. Would make it a
lot easier to get the pressure and volume you want, but it does
nothing for recovery. In fact by using a pressurized tank you would
have to do recovery as totally separate and non-automated process. I
probably won't buy one, but I may make one now that I have seen that.
Maybe set up a recovery reservoir with a float switch that does an
auto shutdown when my recovery reservoir gets to about 1/2 the
capacity of the oiler. Then I'ld never run out of oil if I walked in
the office to get a soda and got distracted.
Mister? I guess you could do it with a venturi style pickup instead
of a pressurize tank, and then just play with your pickup and nozzle
size to get a nice spray.

I did some research , ended up designing and building a mister that uses a
pressurized supply . You CAN inject the used coolant back into the tank ,
just use a small orifice . Check out water injectors for steam boilers ,
some use a similar device .
The reason for pressurizing the supply is to help reduce water/coolant
vapor in the air . The air supply is at a lower pressure , therefore the
mist is of a "coarser" consistency . Larger "droplets" mean less
evapotation , and less moisture in the air .
The last thing I want around my machine tools is a moist environment .
--
Snag
sometimes ya gotta
shovel manure
to pay the bills

Bob La Londe writes:

Then I need to figure out a good pump to use to bring the oil back out
of the bucket and to the nozzle at the cutting head.

The smallest submersible aquarium or pond pump should work fine from Home
Depot or Walmart. That's all that is used on the kerosene parts washers.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=41287
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45303
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45305

Leaving aside the canard that WD-40 is just a perfumed petroleum distillate
of kerosene weight.

Ignoramus20688 wrote:

On 2008-11-22, Bob La Londe wrote:
Suggestions? Last time I checked a generic electric fuel pump was about $40
retail.

A lot easier to buy a working coolant system on ebay. You can also
look into buying a misting cooler.

Our buddies at Harbor Freight got you again with item 45333, which while
not found in the online listing is in their printed catalogs. 2 gallon
flood type coolant system, $40 reg, seen on sale for $29, tank, pump and
mag base flexible coolant nozzle.

BTW, Also at Harbor Freight:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=99886

I'm speculating for these comments, because I don't know what is the best
product that would/could be used with your machine (or why Taig says not to
use water-based coolant/lubricants).

I think there is a difference between water-based and water soluble
lubricants, which could be explored.

There are some glycerine-based cutting lubricants available, which are water
soluable, which doesn't mean I'm suggesting you use water on your machine,
but the water soluble characteristic is very favorable since the workpieces
can be rinsed clean with water.

There are likely to be some Taig user groups on Yahoo or other forums (or
you could start one). I would imagine that some users are using something
other than WD-40 (although I realize some folks believe there isn't anything
better for any application that's better than WD-40)

I would be reluctant to use a hydrocarbon cleaning solvent-type coolant for
machining, adding some to a bandsaw cut is one thing, but having a volume of
it sitting around (and pooling in a chip pan, on shop rags etc) doesn't
sound very good to me.
I wouldn't consider automatic transmission fluid to be the ultimate answer
either. There are probably other DIY concoctions being used that probably
don't have very good properties for cutting metal.

I believe WD-40 is primarily made up of Stoddard solvent, or something very
much like Stoddard, which is a great cleaning solvent, BTW.

Glycerine-based cutting lubricants are going to be non-flammable, unlike
WD-40 or Stoddard.
One of the glycerine products that I'm familiar with is Lenox Pro Tool Lube.
I've used it a lot, and it's performance is great. It's viscosity is more
like liquid dish soap, not as thin as water or WD-40 (although it can be
thinned).
The only disadvantage of the PTL is that it can soften the paint that's on
my machines from China, not immediately on contact, but it will if I let a
dribble sit on the paint for a while. I don't consider this to be a serious
problem though.

Aside from flooding, squirting or spraying methods, you might want to
consider gravity. Having a steady, adjustable drip just ahead of the tool
path (or directed directly onto the cutting tool) shouldn't be too difficult
to set up.

A recovery tank would hold the run-off, lifting and pouring or a simple hand
pump could be used for transferring enough liquid for a work session up to
the delivery vessel.
One of the squeeze-bulb hand pumps used for priming an outboard boat motor
might suffice if there aren't any chips suspended in the liquid.

The flooding process works very well for carrying chips away from the
cutting tool though, which definitely has benefits.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
I've been playing with a Taig 2019 mini mill for a while now, and its fun,
but for hogging out any real amounts of metal I need to keep a constant
spray of oil on my cutter. WD-40 works pretty darn good. So far I have
just stood there metering WD-40 onto my cutter with a standard spray can,
but that is getting old. Especially on longer cuts.

I can buy it by the gallon for a pretty reasonable price, but still I hate
to just waste it, and of course I need a way to dispense it, and maybe to
recover it too. I was thinking to just weld up a big catch tray out of
aluminum to go under the mil. Drill a hole in one corner and put a pipe
down to a bucket to catch the oil, and then pump it back up to a nozzle on
the side of my cutting head. Here are my thoughts. Put a stainless
screen over the pan drain hole to keep the big pieces out of the bucket,
and then maybe under that in the top of the pipe loosely stuff in some
cheese cloth to filter out the smaller particles.

Then I need to figure out a good pump to use to bring the oil back out of
the bucket and to the nozzle at the cutting head. I was thinking a five
gallon utility bucket with the lid snapped on would be a good sump, but I
would like to leave it on the floor under my work bench so as to minimize
the chances of knocking it over and wasting 20-40 dollars worth of oil.
Of course I need a pump then that can lift the oil 3-4 feet safely and
have some decent pressure at the head to be able to spray chips off and
keep the cutting point cool. I figure a fuel pump might work, but I do
not know if it will have the volume or pressure to do the job. A water
cooler pump would have the volume, but maybe not the pressure, and I do
not know if those pumps are explosion proof since they are designed to
work in a water environment, not a flammable environment.

Suggestions? Last time I checked a generic electric fuel pump was about
$40 retail.

P.S. The Taig specifically says not to use water based coolants.

Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com

matthew maguire writes:

The only real downside is the air use
(compressor noise) and cost (more electricity for the compressor).

Plus misting introduces a constant contamination of the atmosphere, deeply
inhalable micro droplets and vapor of questionable microbial sanitation and
anticorrosion chemicals. But I suppose that's better than emulsified swine
fat that's been in a bucket for months. Flooding with petroleum
hydrocarbons sounds better all the time.

Bob La Londe wrote:


Like this? http://tinyurl.com/5dlmzc

Looks nice, and I like the pneumatic for pressure.

Mister? I guess you could do it with a venturi style pickup instead of
a pressurize tank, and then just play with your pickup and nozzle size
to get a nice spray.



Hi Bob,

That is a siphon mister unit, a fairly big one.... Most small milling
operators tend to use misters as when they are set right (a little
sputter these days) they are cleaner than anything other than dry or
microdrop machining. A gallon of really good synthetic can run up to 25
bucks but at the right mix rate and output settings will net you 250 to
500 hours of machining. The only real downside is the air use
(compressor noise) and cost (more electricity for the compressor).

You can make your own as most low buck misters just have a small tube
extending a bit into the airflow tube at about 80 degrees perpendicular.


Matt

On Nov 22, 6:59�pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
I've been playing with a Taig 2019 mini mill for a while now, and its fun,
but for hogging out any real amounts of metal I need to keep a constant
spray of oil on my cutter.

I just asked my local furnace/ AC repair guy to save me an oil fired
furnace's pump for me the next time he replaced a furnace. This is the
unit that pumps the heating oil through a nozzle to spray it into the
combustion/heating chamber. Free for the asking!
I haven't set it up on the old Bridgeport yet but it's 110V and I can
pretty much use it as is. I just have to plumb some lines to it using
the threaded input and output ports and close the re-circulation port
too.
I believe I originally heard of this in this group?

Tim
Finger Lakes region of NY
www.alisam.com

Richard J Kinch wrote:

(snip)

Plus misting introduces a constant contamination of the atmosphere, deeply
inhalable micro droplets and vapor of questionable microbial sanitation and
anticorrosion chemicals. But I suppose that's better than emulsified swine
fat that's been in a bucket for months. Flooding with petroleum
hydrocarbons sounds better all the time.

I would imagine that is why most misters now sputter or spit instead of
fog. You definitely want to use synthetic instead of soluble oil in
these things because of breathing issues.

Also even though the smoke produced from cutting is not seen with a
mister it is still there and one should be aware that all lubricated
cutting produces vapors that are harmful in too large a quantity (even
the very expensive microdrop "dry" units with the very enviro "pretty"
lubricants.

Matt

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:57:47 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Nov 22, 6:59?pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
I've been playing with a Taig 2019 mini mill for a while now, and its fun,
but for hogging out any real amounts of metal I need to keep a constant
spray of oil on my cutter.

I just asked my local furnace/ AC repair guy to save me an oil fired
furnace's pump for me the next time he replaced a furnace. This is the
unit that pumps the heating oil through a nozzle to spray it into the
combustion/heating chamber. Free for the asking!
I haven't set it up on the old Bridgeport yet but it's 110V and I can
pretty much use it as is. I just have to plumb some lines to it using
the threaded input and output ports and close the re-circulation port
too.
I believe I originally heard of this in this group?

Tim
Finger Lakes region of NY
www.alisam.com


swamp cooler pumps cost about $20 and work well enough for water based
coolants. Simply stick one in a 5 gallon bucket with the return line
back into the bucket.

shrug...if you elevate the bucket to just below table level, they will
also work well enough for light oil coolants
Gunner

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."
Maj. Gen. John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in 1864 at the battle of Spotsylvania

matthew maguire writes:

I would imagine that is why most misters now sputter or spit instead of
fog. You definitely want to use synthetic instead of soluble oil in
these things because of breathing issues.

I was thinking of the misters that just spray water, but with a little
ethanolamine or something in the water to prevent rusting your tooling and
machinery. It doesn't matter much between fog vs spray, because you're
going to get fine particulates floating about consisting at least of water
hardness minerals if nothing else after the droplets vaporize.

In article ,
matthew maguire wrote:

Richard J Kinch wrote:

(snip)

Plus misting introduces a constant contamination of the atmosphere, deeply
inhalable micro droplets and vapor of questionable microbial sanitation and
anticorrosion chemicals. But I suppose that's better than emulsified swine
fat that's been in a bucket for months. Flooding with petroleum
hydrocarbons sounds better all the time.

I would imagine that is why most misters now sputter or spit instead of
fog. You definitely want to use synthetic instead of soluble oil in
these things because of breathing issues.

Also even though the smoke produced from cutting is not seen with a
mister it is still there and one should be aware that all lubricated
cutting produces vapors that are harmful in too large a quantity (even
the very expensive microdrop "dry" units with the very enviro "pretty"
lubricants.

I have to agree. Breathing the mist can be very unpleasant. I wear a
3M oil-mist-rated mask while using a mister.

Joe Gwinn

On Nov 23, 1:24 am, Richard J Kinch wrote:
matthew maguire writes:
The only real downside is the air use
(compressor noise) and cost (more electricity for the compressor).

Plus misting introduces a constant contamination of the atmosphere, deeply
inhalable micro droplets and vapor of questionable microbial sanitation and
anticorrosion chemicals. But I suppose that's better than emulsified swine
fat that's been in a bucket for months. Flooding with petroleum
hydrocarbons sounds better all the time.

Does anyone here remember T-nut, who bought a machine shop, where they
were using misting coolant, which irritated his lungs (a precursor of
lung cancer in my memory was actual cause) so he removed all mist
cooling systems from his shop.
After that it killed all ideas of buying anything from Enco or any
other vendor who sold these.
My recommendation is to use oil based coolant, no water/emulsions as
you must clean up every time you use this to prevent machine rust.
Ignator

There are many soluble oils. You can find several (at least) at the local
oil company - not auto-parts - but the guys with tanks in the back and
often have rail road access. They have the books and connections.

But many are available from MSCdirect and other suppliers. Trim Sov is one
I use on my saw and it is a good general purpose oil.

Martin

Wild_Bill wrote:
I'm speculating for these comments, because I don't know what is the
best product that would/could be used with your machine (or why Taig
says not to use water-based coolant/lubricants).

I think there is a difference between water-based and water soluble
lubricants, which could be explored.

There are some glycerine-based cutting lubricants available, which are
water soluable, which doesn't mean I'm suggesting you use water on your
machine, but the water soluble characteristic is very favorable since
the workpieces can be rinsed clean with water.

There are likely to be some Taig user groups on Yahoo or other forums
(or you could start one). I would imagine that some users are using
something other than WD-40 (although I realize some folks believe there
isn't anything better for any application that's better than WD-40)

I would be reluctant to use a hydrocarbon cleaning solvent-type coolant
for machining, adding some to a bandsaw cut is one thing, but having a
volume of it sitting around (and pooling in a chip pan, on shop rags
etc) doesn't sound very good to me.
I wouldn't consider automatic transmission fluid to be the ultimate
answer either. There are probably other DIY concoctions being used that
probably don't have very good properties for cutting metal.

I believe WD-40 is primarily made up of Stoddard solvent, or something
very much like Stoddard, which is a great cleaning solvent, BTW.

Glycerine-based cutting lubricants are going to be non-flammable, unlike
WD-40 or Stoddard.
One of the glycerine products that I'm familiar with is Lenox Pro Tool
Lube. I've used it a lot, and it's performance is great. It's viscosity
is more like liquid dish soap, not as thin as water or WD-40 (although
it can be thinned).
The only disadvantage of the PTL is that it can soften the paint that's
on my machines from China, not immediately on contact, but it will if I
let a dribble sit on the paint for a while. I don't consider this to be
a serious problem though.

Aside from flooding, squirting or spraying methods, you might want to
consider gravity. Having a steady, adjustable drip just ahead of the
tool path (or directed directly onto the cutting tool) shouldn't be too
difficult to set up.

A recovery tank would hold the run-off, lifting and pouring or a simple
hand pump could be used for transferring enough liquid for a work
session up to the delivery vessel.
One of the squeeze-bulb hand pumps used for priming an outboard boat
motor might suffice if there aren't any chips suspended in the liquid.

The flooding process works very well for carrying chips away from the
cutting tool though, which definitely has benefits.

On 2008-11-23, Wild_Bill wrote:
I'm speculating for these comments, because I don't know what is the best
product that would/could be used with your machine (or why Taig says not to
use water-based coolant/lubricants).

Because there is a lot of aluminum mounted to steel in the
machine. Very far apart on the electrolytic scale, so add water
(especially with salts which increase the conductivity) and you are soon
etching your machine. The spindle and the tailstock ram are both
mounted in aluminum extrusions. The cross-slide body is aluminum. The
bed is an inverse steel dovetail mounted to an aluminum extrusions for a
base, and the base is filled with concrete for rigidity. The headstock,
tailstock, and carriage all are aluminum mounting to the steel.

I've got a Taig from before the days that it had a Taig name on
it -- bought at a hamfest when Taig was just getting started.

I think there is a difference between water-based and water soluble
lubricants, which could be explored.

I would not use even the water soluble ones if they are
hygroscopic (absorb water vapor from the air).

[ ... ]

There are likely to be some Taig user groups on Yahoo or other forums (or
you could start one).

I'm pretty sure that there is one there -- but since I don't use
Yahoo (or other web-based forums), I don't know for sure.

I would imagine that some users are using something
other than WD-40 (although I realize some folks believe there isn't anything
better for any application that's better than WD-40)

Well ... WD-40 is a nice cutting fluid for aluminum, but I would
not use it on steel. For that -- I would use the high sulfur threading
oil sold for pipe threading -- painted on with an acid brush. For
stronger machines, I've used SulFlo (a variant with powdered sulfur in
sufficient quantities so it makes a nice paint-on paste. But you want
good ventilation with the high sulfur stuff. :-)

I would be reluctant to use a hydrocarbon cleaning solvent-type coolant for
machining, adding some to a bandsaw cut is one thing, but having a volume of
it sitting around (and pooling in a chip pan, on shop rags etc) doesn't
sound very good to me.

Motivation to clean up after the project? :-)

I wouldn't consider automatic transmission fluid to be the ultimate answer
either.

It is again a pretty good one to use for cutting aluminum, but
not for steel.

There are probably other DIY concoctions being used that probably
don't have very good properties for cutting metal.

I believe WD-40 is primarily made up of Stoddard solvent, or something very
much like Stoddard, which is a great cleaning solvent, BTW.

Exactly. Not really an oil, but it does carry chips away nicely
when cutting aluminum with a slitting saw blade.

Glycerine-based cutting lubricants are going to be non-flammable, unlike
WD-40 or Stoddard.

But may attract and hold water -- thus etching away the Taig
(and probably a Sherline is similar, though I've never had one to play
with.)

[ ... ]

Aside from flooding, squirting or spraying methods, you might want to
consider gravity. Having a steady, adjustable drip just ahead of the tool
path (or directed directly onto the cutting tool) shouldn't be too difficult
to set up.

A recovery tank would hold the run-off, lifting and pouring or a simple hand
pump could be used for transferring enough liquid for a work session up to
the delivery vessel.

My Nichols horizontal mill has a hook at one end of the bed
which is also a pouring lib. You hang a small bucket from it, put
another bucket up high with a bottom drain to the drip pipe, and every
so often pause and dump the lower bucket into the upper one. It also
has provisions for a big rectangular funnel with a filter grid which
leads to a reservoir in the base, and a mounting plate for a pump to
recirculate the coolant. It is all cast iron and steel, so water-based
coolants can be used more safely with it -- especially with anti-rust
additives.

One of the squeeze-bulb hand pumps used for priming an outboard boat motor
might suffice if there aren't any chips suspended in the liquid.

Filters.

The flooding process works very well for carrying chips away from the
cutting tool though, which definitely has benefits.

Chips -- and heat. Probably not a problem with the limited
motor size of a Taig or a Sherline, but larger tools can benefit from
that -- including not having to wait for a workpiece in the lathe to
cool down before you can accurately measure the diameter. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...


Well ... WD-40 is a nice cutting fluid for aluminum, but I would
not use it on steel. For that -- I would use the high sulfur threading
oil sold for pipe threading -- painted on with an acid brush. For
stronger machines, I've used SulFlo (a variant with powdered sulfur in
sufficient quantities so it makes a nice paint-on paste. But you want
good ventilation with the high sulfur stuff. :-)

I am mostly working with aluminum.


Exactly. Not really an oil, but it does carry chips away nicely
when cutting aluminum with a slitting saw blade.

Filters.

Exactly



The flooding process works very well for carrying chips away from the
cutting tool though, which definitely has benefits.

Chips -- and heat. Probably not a problem with the limited
motor size of a Taig or a Sherline, but larger tools can benefit from
that -- including not having to wait for a workpiece in the lathe to
cool down before you can accurately measure the diameter. :-)


Depends. A small cutter turning at max RPM gets pretty darn hot if you do
not cool it, but carrying away chips is paramount when cutting aluminum as
they are work hardened and will damage your work piece if not your cutter.

Bob La Londe wrote:

[snip]

Suggestions? Last time I checked a generic electric fuel pump was about $40
retail.

I'd suggest NOT using an electric (i.e. 12 VDC) fuel pump. Many of these
have brushes and commutator designed to run immersed in fuel. For diesel
or gasoline, this isn't a problem, as the fuel is clean and
non-conductive. But for recycled cutting oil, eventually the
concentration of small metallic particles will rise to the point at
which they might short the commutator segments.

110 VAC aquarium pumps that have wetted rotors won't suffer from this
problem since they are induction motors with no brushes or commutators.
However both types might bind up if the metallic contaminants are
magnetic and are attracted to the rotor/stator gap to the point at which
they jamb the rotor.


--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. -- Mark Twain

On 2008-11-24, Bob La Londe wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

Chips -- and heat. Probably not a problem with the limited
motor size of a Taig or a Sherline, but larger tools can benefit from
that -- including not having to wait for a workpiece in the lathe to
cool down before you can accurately measure the diameter. :-)


Depends. A small cutter turning at max RPM gets pretty darn hot if you do
not cool it, but carrying away chips is paramount when cutting aluminum as
they are work hardened and will damage your work piece if not your cutter.

I was thinking more along the lines of turning in a lathe. I've
turned some 6" diameter by 6" long 12L14 steel, and when I needed to hit
a particular diameter it was the heat buildup in the steel workpiece
which was the problem -- I was not using coolant (not set up for it),
and once I got close in size I had to wait for a couple of hours (went
up to dinner) before re-measuring it and taking the final cut. 6"
diameter stock grows a *lot* when hot from machining.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-11-24, ignator wrote:

[ ... ]

Does anyone here remember T-nut,

Teenut? Yes -- and I still miss him.

who bought a machine shop, where they
were using misting coolant, which irritated his lungs (a precursor of
lung cancer in my memory was actual cause) so he removed all mist
cooling systems from his shop.

Of course, he was a regular life-long smoker, too, so we can't
blame the mist coolant with any certainty.

After that it killed all ideas of buying anything from Enco or any
other vendor who sold these.

O.K.

My recommendation is to use oil based coolant, no water/emulsions as
you must clean up every time you use this to prevent machine rust.
Ignator

Reasonable. And the oil based coolants are not as dangerous as
some have been suggesting -- unless perhaps you do something stupid like
waiting until the lathe tool gets red hot and then hit it with a stream
of oil at just the wrong angle.

Full coverage will probably still cool it quickly enough to
eliminate that problem -- though damage to the tool remains a
possibility.

However -- if the red-hot tool gets hit just by the edge of the
flow, it might vaporize and ignite the oil, which would then spread to
the rest. Keep a good fire extinguisher handy, just in case.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:


Does anyone here remember T-nut,

Teenut? Yes -- and I still miss him.

And the oil based coolants are not as dangerous as
some have been suggesting -- unless perhaps you do something stupid like
waiting until the lathe tool gets red hot and then hit it with a stream
of oil at just the wrong angle.

(lots of snips above)

Enjoy,
DoN.


Sad to loose a buddy... I have lifetime exposure to about everything and
in middle age some of it shows up...


Actually, I think my Landis grinder is the worst ( big flood, I put a
fan behind me to help with the mist cloud). I finally found a synthetic
that had none under the MSDS health hazards for it but it's still like
standing over a vaporizer...

For my misters (spitters) I use Kool-Mist 77 and direct the flow into
the bore or against the face (trepanning), I face mill "dry" on the HBM.
MSDS - "non toxic" under ingestion and "none" under inhalation and skin
exposure.

For clean lathe work I use a Cedarberg unit modified for low pressure
spitting (these puppies fetch $180 or more now). Very pleasant and quiet
but cools poorly, I can use W/S oils with this and get very little to no
smoke and have no irritation.

For HSS milling or slotting on the knee mill I use Kool-Mist 77 with
coolant metering at 40PSI (I'll get about 80 hours from a gallon). This
is the only unit that atomizes but, at near dry I get no cloud). I can
cut 60 - 80 1/2" slots 3" long in 4340AQ shafts with this and a
beautiful finish.

When I use the shaper (seldom but fun), I use a lube stick (small to
moderate cloud and irritating if it's moderate, but I stay away).

For tapping (hand or power) I use Anchorlube in a squeeze bottle (you
can eat the stuff). This stuff is very good under boundry conditions
(tapping or stamping) and is great for soft and gummy materials, (cleans
up with water).

My 1 gallon 15 year old bottle of cutting oil (sulpherized) is still
near full... And I have numerous other tapping fluid squeeze bottles
that will look good on my "sale rack" someday.

Matt

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:48:51 -0600, matthew maguire
wrote:

DoN. Nichols wrote:


Does anyone here remember T-nut,

Teenut? Yes -- and I still miss him.

And the oil based coolants are not as dangerous as
some have been suggesting -- unless perhaps you do something stupid like
waiting until the lathe tool gets red hot and then hit it with a stream
of oil at just the wrong angle.

(lots of snips above)

Enjoy,
DoN.


Sad to loose a buddy... I have lifetime exposure to about everything and
in middle age some of it shows up...


Actually, I think my Landis grinder is the worst ( big flood, I put a
fan behind me to help with the mist cloud). I finally found a synthetic
that had none under the MSDS health hazards for it but it's still like
standing over a vaporizer...

For my misters (spitters) I use Kool-Mist 77 and direct the flow into
the bore or against the face (trepanning), I face mill "dry" on the HBM.
MSDS - "non toxic" under ingestion and "none" under inhalation and skin
exposure.

For clean lathe work I use a Cedarberg unit modified for low pressure
spitting (these puppies fetch $180 or more now). Very pleasant and quiet
but cools poorly, I can use W/S oils with this and get very little to no
smoke and have no irritation.

For HSS milling or slotting on the knee mill I use Kool-Mist 77 with
coolant metering at 40PSI (I'll get about 80 hours from a gallon). This
is the only unit that atomizes but, at near dry I get no cloud). I can
cut 60 - 80 1/2" slots 3" long in 4340AQ shafts with this and a
beautiful finish.

When I use the shaper (seldom but fun), I use a lube stick (small to
moderate cloud and irritating if it's moderate, but I stay away).

For tapping (hand or power) I use Anchorlube in a squeeze bottle (you
can eat the stuff). This stuff is very good under boundry conditions
(tapping or stamping) and is great for soft and gummy materials, (cleans
up with water).

My 1 gallon 15 year old bottle of cutting oil (sulpherized) is still
near full... And I have numerous other tapping fluid squeeze bottles
that will look good on my "sale rack" someday.

Matt
My 1 gallon can of Oster "bestoil" thread cutting oil dates from the
late '40s when my Dad got tired of asking clients wives for lard to
use with the Beaver #25 dies when threading pipe for their plumbing
projects.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2008-11-24, ignator wrote:

[ ... ]

Does anyone here remember T-nut,

Teenut? Yes -- and I still miss him.

who bought a machine shop, where they
were using misting coolant, which irritated his lungs (a precursor of
lung cancer in my memory was actual cause) so he removed all mist
cooling systems from his shop.

Of course, he was a regular life-long smoker, too, so we can't
blame the mist coolant with any certainty.

After that it killed all ideas of buying anything from Enco or any
other vendor who sold these.

O.K.

My recommendation is to use oil based coolant, no water/emulsions as
you must clean up every time you use this to prevent machine rust.
Ignator

Reasonable. And the oil based coolants are not as dangerous as
some have been suggesting -- unless perhaps you do something stupid like
waiting until the lathe tool gets red hot and then hit it with a stream
of oil at just the wrong angle.

Full coverage will probably still cool it quickly enough to
eliminate that problem -- though damage to the tool remains a
possibility.

However -- if the red-hot tool gets hit just by the edge of the
flow, it might vaporize and ignite the oil, which would then spread to
the rest. Keep a good fire extinguisher handy, just in case.

Soluble oil often has rust inhibitors in it, or you can add them.
Tramp oil makes soluble oil a little messier, but seems to help greatly with
the rusting issue as well, which is partially why I don't bother with a
skimmer for the tramp oil.
So cleaning up soluble oil hasn't been an issue.
--
PV'd




Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---