On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:02:24 GMT, xray
wrote:


The sump in the bottom has two sections but they are connected by a hole
through a baffle. I can't see why this is a good idea. I'm thinking of
blocking off the connection between sections.

Is the hole near the bottom of the baffle? If so probably the purpose
is to let oil (tramp oil from the lube system) float to the top of the
first section and relatively clean coolant pass through to the second
section of the tank where the pump is.

The tank on my lathe at school doesn;t have two sections but I sure
wish that it did and after the first part of this school year it will!

Errol Groff

Instructor, Machine Tool Department

H.H. Ellis Technical High School
643 Upper Maple Street
Danielson, CT 06239

New England Model Engineering Society
www.neme-s.org

In article ,
xray wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:54:57 GMT, Errol Groff
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:02:24 GMT, xray
wrote:

The sump in the bottom has two sections but they are connected by a hole
through a baffle. I can't see why this is a good idea. I'm thinking of
blocking off the connection between sections.

Is the hole near the bottom of the baffle? If so probably the purpose
is to let oil (tramp oil from the lube system) float to the top of the
first section and relatively clean coolant pass through to the second
section of the tank where the pump is.

Yes the hole connecting the two the sections is on the bottom, but the
return comes into the bottom of the smaller section and this is also
where the pump is. Your reply gives me something to think about that
never occurred to me, but I can't see the benefit of the configuration
in my lathe.

I suspect that the hole in your chip pan, surrounded by three
smaller holes was for a drain filter (wire mesh) to keep metal chips out
of the coolant reservoir. It should end in a funnel like structure with
a hose or pipes to lead the strained coolant into the larger section of
the reservoir. The smaller three holes would be for the bolts which
attach it to the chip pan.

My chip pan (Clausing 5418, 12x24") has a single round hole, and
I intend to make a strainer for it, so I can start using coolant at
need. There is a shelf between the two pedestals which could support a
reservoir, if the pump is not too tall.

Also, note that the smell of your coolant is a rather common
problem. There are some coolants designed with bactericide in them to
reduce the problem, but I think that nothing eliminates it entirely.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
snip-----

Also, note that the smell of your coolant is a rather common
problem. There are some coolants designed with bactericide in them to
reduce the problem, but I think that nothing eliminates it entirely.

Good Luck,
DoN.

I've read on more than one occasion that aerating coolant will keep the
bacteria from developing as quickly. It's normally anaerobic in nature. A
small aquarium pump with an aerating stone should work well enough. It's
also a good idea to keep tramp oil out of the coolant. On a lathe, it's
almost impossible, thanks to the exposed ways.

I've yet to try the aeration idea, although if I ever finish my project,
the house from hell, I'm likely to do so when I once again get back in the
swing of things and fill my lathe with coolant. Before doing that, I'll
use a commercial cleaner, formulated for cleaning sumps. It's a good idea
to get it absolutely clean, so the bacteria isn't already there. Adding new
coolant to a dirty sump is a waste of effort.

Harold

"xray" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 00:18:51 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:

It's a good idea
to get it absolutely clean, so the bacteria isn't already there. Adding
new
coolant to a dirty sump is a waste of effort.

Yeah, like I said I have mine open and plan to remove all the liquid.
There's a rust appearance in the tank but not sure if any of that is
coming from the tank itself or just stuff carried in. I was thinking
about epoxy painting the insides, but need to see how it looks after
cleaning.

It takes a damned good paint to stand up to coolant, so make sure you select
one that will. It also should go without saying that the surface should
be clean for the paint to adhere properly. . Very clean. Chemically clean.
The coolant chamber will have been soaked by oil and other crud for years on
end, so it's highly unlikely it will clean up easily. A base solution
(chemical sump cleaner) is a good place to start (after manually scraping
out the thick layer of crud), especially if you can start with hot water and
circulate the cleaner with the coolant pump. The hotter, the better,
although your lathe will act as a huge heat sink and cool it quickly.

The tough part is removing the lathe from the stand to figure out what's
going on in the coolant return path. Big work for a small issue.

Nobody has answered my question about mounting the coolant nozzle. Just
from logic it seems like it should go on the carriage so it can track
with the tool. Is that the normal set-up?

Sorry, I got so caught up with my thoughts that one got past me. Yeah, your
coolant discharge should come from the carriage. I run a Sag 12 Graziano.
The coolant discharge mounts on the back right side of the carriage, where
it is held by a bracket that is tapped for the vertical pipe that houses a
valve on the end, about a foot above the carriage. A hose, about 1/2"
inside diameter is attached to the valve. It's a type of hose that can be
flexed and holds the desired position. It's sort of desirable to get
volume without a lot of force, so the coolant doesn't splash off the target.

Harold

"xray" wrote in message
...
snip----
Good points. Sounds like a lot of work. After I clean it out, if it
doesn't look really rusty or something, maybe Ill just leave it alone.

I hoped you'd see it that way. You don't really gain anything from painting
the chamber, and it would be a lot of work. Worst of all, if the paint
either dissolved (it often does that) or came off in sheets, it wouldn't be
in your best interest.

Sounds like you have a good handle on it now. Good luck, and let us know
how everything turns out.

Harold

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"xray" wrote in message
...
snip----

Good points. Sounds like a lot of work. After I clean it out, if it
doesn't look really rusty or something, maybe Ill just leave it alone.


I hoped you'd see it that way. You don't really gain anything from painting
the chamber, and it would be a lot of work. Worst of all, if the paint
either dissolved (it often does that) or came off in sheets, it wouldn't be
in your best interest.

Sounds like you have a good handle on it now. Good luck, and let us know
how everything turns out.

Harold



I have a metal band saw that uses coolant - have two gallons of concentrate.
I have never had a smell problem (no sulfur content) and it is a water based
(good cooling) oil. I don't have the name now - but can get it in the shop
in the a.m.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

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"lionslair at consolidated dot net" "lionslair at consolidated dot net"
wrote in message ...
Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"xray" wrote in message
...
snip----

Good points. Sounds like a lot of work. After I clean it out, if it
doesn't look really rusty or something, maybe Ill just leave it alone.


I hoped you'd see it that way. You don't really gain anything from
painting
the chamber, and it would be a lot of work. Worst of all, if the paint
either dissolved (it often does that) or came off in sheets, it wouldn't
be
in your best interest.

Sounds like you have a good handle on it now. Good luck, and let us
know
how everything turns out.

Harold



I have a metal band saw that uses coolant - have two gallons of
concentrate.
I have never had a smell problem (no sulfur content) and it is a water
based
(good cooling) oil. I don't have the name now - but can get it in the
shop
in the a.m.

Martin

That might be nice to know. I'm from the old school, when using soluble oil
was truly a PITA. It was sticky, and had an aroma that wasn't pleasant. I
think I could adjust to the smell, but the damned stickiness drove me nuts.
As a result, I've never used it in my own equipment, but a recent
conversation with our bud, michael (RCM, the damned old hippie that needs a
shave), resulted in some pretty nice input in that regard. He runs it in
his CNC and says that it's not like it used to be. Obviously something has
happened to the formulation, and that has to be a good thing!

Thanks! Looking forward to your brand name information.

Harold

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"lionslair at consolidated dot net" "lionslair at consolidated dot net"
wrote in message ...

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:


"xray" wrote in message
...
snip----


Good points. Sounds like a lot of work. After I clean it out, if it
doesn't look really rusty or something, maybe Ill just leave it alone.


I hoped you'd see it that way. You don't really gain anything from

painting

the chamber, and it would be a lot of work. Worst of all, if the paint
either dissolved (it often does that) or came off in sheets, it wouldn't

be

in your best interest.

Sounds like you have a good handle on it now. Good luck, and let us

know

how everything turns out.

Harold




I have a metal band saw that uses coolant - have two gallons of

concentrate.

I have never had a smell problem (no sulfur content) and it is a water

based

(good cooling) oil. I don't have the name now - but can get it in the

shop

in the a.m.

Martin


That might be nice to know. I'm from the old school, when using soluble oil
was truly a PITA. It was sticky, and had an aroma that wasn't pleasant. I
think I could adjust to the smell, but the damned stickiness drove me nuts.
As a result, I've never used it in my own equipment, but a recent
conversation with our bud, michael (RCM, the damned old hippie that needs a
shave), resulted in some pretty nice input in that regard. He runs it in
his CNC and says that it's not like it used to be. Obviously something has
happened to the formulation, and that has to be a good thing!

Thanks! Looking forward to your brand name information.

Harold


On my list of to do's.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

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On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:29:31 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


It takes a damned good paint to stand up to coolant, so make sure you select
one that will.

As a machine tool mechanic..might I suggest not bothering painting the
inside? No matter what you do..sooner or later its gonna peel, unless
its baked on enamel or ceramic. Even good powdercoat will peel sooner
or later if used with waterbased coolants.

Clean the critter out, and use it. If you are using toilet water
(water based coolant)..expect rust, unless you use high tech hipslick
and cool coolants and watch your PH closely.

If you are using oil, it wont care if its not painted or not.

Yesterday I did a spindle bearing replacement on a very early Hardinge
DV (59) with the inverted slot bed ways. The customer had started
using water based coolants a year ago. Running it during the week 8
hours a day was fine..it was the weekends and holidays which started
the rust. Customer called, said he was hearing a clunking noise from
the head stock and it was running hot. I could pick up the collet
closer about ,100 of an inch. Rear bearings were toast, front
bearings were on their way out. Rust. Rust. Rust.

Use oil on old machines as coolant..or maintain your coolant really
well. The bearings alone for the above replacement at my cost..were
$386

gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

If I went with oil, I'd need to go get some. From the water I dumped in
the tank while cleaning it, seems to need at least 4 gallons. Is there a
cutting oil you would recommend? Something general purpose that would
work well with ferrous or non-ferrous metals?

I use mobile omicron in my shop. While it listed as a cutting oil the
manual claims it can also be used as a hydrolic oil. Therefore I figure
its pretty inert. I don't worry about leaving it on the ways of the
lathe or on the table of the mill. My mill vises get soaked in it once
in a while and they have not suffered any damage. I have thought about
installing a coolant pump on my rockwell lathe and using omicron.
It certainly won't harm the lathe but it might throw oil around the shop.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:41:18 GMT, xray
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 06:36:00 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 02:29:31 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


It takes a damned good paint to stand up to coolant, so make sure you select
one that will.

As a machine tool mechanic..might I suggest not bothering painting the
inside? No matter what you do..sooner or later its gonna peel, unless
its baked on enamel or ceramic. Even good powdercoat will peel sooner
or later if used with waterbased coolants.

Clean the critter out, and use it.

I got the tank cleaned out today. There was a lot of red in the water as
I cleaned, and first I thought it was rust but actually I think most of
it was primer from the original paint. I used Castrol Super Clean to
dissolve the sludge and grease, but I think it also dissolved a lot of
what was left of the original paint.

Ayup. pretty common.

Looking at the inside of the tank now, I don't see any signs of major
rust. I'm not sure exactly what kind of fluid was in the tank, but it
seemed water based to me as I was bailing and draining.

I am not looking forward to the work, but I think I am going to have to
pull the lathe off of the stand. I have to figure out how the return
system is supposed to be connected and I can't see under the tray
without splitting it.

If you are using toilet water
(water based coolant)..expect rust, unless you use high tech hipslick
and cool coolants and watch your PH closely.

What do you mean by hipslick, etc. and what should the pH be? I have a
gallon of Mobil Mobilmet S-122 water soluble oil that I was planning to
use. I bought it years ago to use with my mill but never set anything up
to use it. I doubt if I will use the lathe often and I doubt I'll use
the coolant much of the time. So rust sounds like it could be a problem.

ValCool, Hangsterfers, etc etc. There is a very large industry devoted
to making and providing coolants. Ask over on alt.machines.cnc about
the best choices for your application.

Do you know anything about this S-122? Any comments about it? I tried
looking on a Mobil site but couldn't find any mention of this coolant.
Lots of references on the web for people selling it, but I never found
much trustworthy guidance on using it.

No idea. Ive never heard of it. See above about alt.machines.cnc


If you are using oil, it wont care if its not painted or not.

If I went with oil, I'd need to go get some. From the water I dumped in
the tank while cleaning it, seems to need at least 4 gallons. Is there a
cutting oil you would recommend? Something general purpose that would
work well with ferrous or non-ferrous metals?


I never even saw anyone using a lathe with a coolant system, so this is
one more thing where I have no instincts at all about what is good or
proper. I tried to google on this subject, but haven't found much
information that seemed helpful.

http://home.lightspeed.net/~gunner/myshop

I use plain old high sulphur cutting oil, cause I get it free. Smokes
a bit with really heavy cuts. G But there are many others. Dodge
Oil is supposed to be good. A water soluble cutting oil. Shrug

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner