This is the cheapest milling machine I have seen so far:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/pictu...3&NTITEM=CT133

Has anyone got some experience with it? Any comments on the specs? I suspect
someone will recognize it as an equivalent of a similar piece of Chinese
machinery sold in the USA under a different name (a game I have been playing
with mini-lathes recently :-)

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
This is the cheapest milling machine I have seen so far:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/pictu...3&NTITEM=CT133

Has anyone got some experience with it? Any comments on the specs? I
suspect someone will recognize it as an equivalent of a similar piece of
Chinese machinery sold in the USA under a different name (a game I have
been playing with mini-lathes recently :-)

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC


If you get down to this end of the island, you should drop into House Of
Tools. They may have the same thing on the floor, .....or not. Worth
checking though. Saves a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in ferry fares. They have a
catalogue on line.


Steve R. in Sooke

"Michael Koblic" writes:

This is the cheapest milling machine I have seen so far:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/pictu...3&NTITEM=CT133

Has anyone got some experience with it? Any comments on the specs? I suspect
someone will recognize it as an equivalent of a similar piece of Chinese
machinery sold in the USA under a different name (a game I have been playing
with mini-lathes recently :-)

The variable speed usually indicates it's a Sieg mill.
see

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/...s/versions.htm

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Inf...ll_compare.php

I've seen cheaper prices. But there is shipping, etc. to consider.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 06:56:15 -0400, Maxwell Lol wrote:

"Michael Koblic" writes:

This is the cheapest milling machine I have seen so far:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/pictu...3&NTITEM=CT133

Has anyone got some experience with it? Any comments on the specs? I suspect
someone will recognize it as an equivalent of a similar piece of Chinese
machinery sold in the USA under a different name (a game I have been playing
with mini-lathes recently :-)

The variable speed usually indicates it's a Sieg mill.
see

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/...s/versions.htm

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Inf...ll_compare.php

I've seen cheaper prices. But there is shipping, etc. to consider.

With the Loonie at 0.79 it could be a better price than it looks at first.

One feature to consider for a small mill (or larger mill/drill machines), is
the spindle taper. The machine you linked to has a Morse #3 taper.
Tooling is generally less expensive for R8 taper tooling.

Adapters arereadily available for R8 to MT2 or MT3, but uncommon for MT3 to
anything other than MT2 or MT1.

Both the R8 and MT3 types of tooling are for drawbar mounting to provide
secure mounting.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
This is the cheapest milling machine I have seen so far:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/pictu...3&NTITEM=CT133

Has anyone got some experience with it? Any comments on the specs? I
suspect someone will recognize it as an equivalent of a similar piece of
Chinese machinery sold in the USA under a different name (a game I have
been playing with mini-lathes recently :-)

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Michael Koblic wrote:
This is the cheapest milling machine I have seen so far:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/pictu...3&NTITEM=CT133

Has anyone got some experience with it? Any comments on the specs? I suspect
someone will recognize it as an equivalent of a similar piece of Chinese
machinery sold in the USA under a different name (a game I have been playing
with mini-lathes recently :-)


Yes it looks very similar to the mini-mill at Harbor Freight.

I suppose that price is in Canadian dollars. Not sure how that compares to U.S. dollars
right now. A year to two back you could expect to pay about 45% more in Can.$ than US$
but I think they are much closer to par right now. (Is our $ sliding downhill? ;-) )

This is the cheapest milling machine I have seen so far:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/pictu...028082086153&N...

Any comments on the specs?
I suspect someone will recognize it as an equivalent of a similar piece of Chinese
machinery sold in the USA under a different name (a game I have been playing
with mini-lathes recently :-)

Your basic minimill. There are some variations, so it's worth
investigating. For the minis, this site has a ton of info:
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Main/mini-mill.htm
Note that they have a great section on all of the varieties of the
lathes as well.

So basically, yes, it's the same as the Grizzly/HF/Seig/etc. By
reputation, Busy Bee is on a par with Grizzly for support, a step or
two above HF.
--Glenn Lyford

On Oct 28, 1:44*am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
This is the cheapest milling machine I have seen so far:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/pictu...028082086153&N....

Has anyone got some experience with it? Any comments on the specs? I suspect
someone will recognize it as an equivalent of a similar piece of Chinese
machinery sold in the USA under a different name (a game I have been playing
with mini-lathes recently :-)
Michael Koblic,

I don't have hands-on experience with it or any other mini-mill except
the Sherline, which is too small. Arbors and collets are easier to
find for an R8 spindle.

Users manual:
http://grizzly.com/products/Mini-Milling-Machine/G8689

Parts and accessories:
http://littlemachineshop.com/

On Oct 28, 12:40 pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Oct 28, 1:44 am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:

This is the cheapest milling machine I have seen so far:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/pictu...028082086153&N...

Has anyone got some experience with it? Any comments on the specs? I suspect
someone will recognize it as an equivalent of a similar piece of Chinese
machinery sold in the USA under a different name (a game I have been playing
with mini-lathes recently :-)
Michael Koblic,

I don't have hands-on experience with it or any other mini-mill except
the Sherline, which is too small. Arbors and collets are easier to
find for an R8 spindle.

Users manual:http://grizzly.com/products/Mini-Milling-Machine/G8689

Parts and accessories:http://littlemachineshop.com/



Michael,

I would not reject a mill on the sole grounds for having a M3 spindle
taper.

On a small mill the space between table top and spindle nose is at a
premium, consequently you will want to keep the cutting tools as close
to the spindle nose as possible. This would require collets, and from
personal experience M3 collets hold the tool much tighter than R8
collets.

M3 collets are advertised in the Home Shop Machinist, and I have used
a set for about 20 years. I used R8 collets professionally and I
thought they did a very poor job of holding cutters. With R8 collets
the cutter may pull out, that is why end mill holders with a set
screws are sold. With an M3 collet I have never had this happen.

I arranged for a "jacking" type draw bar in my mill. This draw bar
pushes the collet out of the spindle nose so you don't have to beat
the daylight out of the draw bar end to get the collet to release; M3
collets hold very tightly and require a healthy thump to release
otherwise.

Also, Morse taper shanks with a soft and unmachined ends cost less
than $10 each and are suitable for making special cutter holders for
boring heads and fly cutters.

Wolfgang

"Steve R." wrote in message
...

If you get down to this end of the island, you should drop into House Of
Tools. They may have the same thing on the floor, .....or not. Worth
checking though. Saves a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in ferry fares. They have a
catalogue on line.


House of Tools is my second home (after Canadian Tire). Here is theirs:

http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=18460

Fro all I know they are identical but the price is not.
As it happens I was going to go to Vancouver this week anyway - the
quarterly visit to Summit tools, KMS, Lee Valley and Busy Bee as well as a
few well chosen sushi houses, Floata for dim sum and the Dynamo fencing
club.

Summit tools have an insane sale on: The savings on a router would cover the
cost of the ferry alone.

Oh yes, and Warriors and Wonders on Cambie for the high end cutlery...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
- must take pills. Stop looking through catalogs.

wrote in message
...
I would not reject a mill on the sole grounds for having a M3 spindle
taper.

On a small mill the space between table top and spindle nose is at a
premium, consequently you will want to keep the cutting tools as close
to the spindle nose as possible. This would require collets, and from
personal experience M3 collets hold the tool much tighter than R8
collets.

M3 collets are advertised in the Home Shop Machinist, and I have used
a set for about 20 years. I used R8 collets professionally and I
thought they did a very poor job of holding cutters. With R8 collets
the cutter may pull out, that is why end mill holders with a set
screws are sold. With an M3 collet I have never had this happen.

I arranged for a "jacking" type draw bar in my mill. This draw bar
pushes the collet out of the spindle nose so you don't have to beat
the daylight out of the draw bar end to get the collet to release; M3
collets hold very tightly and require a healthy thump to release
otherwise.

Also, Morse taper shanks with a soft and unmachined ends cost less
than $10 each and are suitable for making special cutter holders for
boring heads and fly cutters.

Thanks.

Much food for thought. As someone else suggested I am looking at another
mill sold locally for $200 more. Just comparing the specs including
accessories the latter mill has a 3/4 HP motor compared with less than 1/2
HP for this one. It also comes with a drill chuck and a "quick change collet
chuck" including 8 collets. None of this is mentioned with the Busy Bee one.
The Z travel is full 21/4 inches more.

http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=18460

I had a look at the costs of end-mill holders for MT3 and they are double
that of R8. I surmise I would need at least two - 3/8 and 1/2? The collets
as well as the drill chuck, however, would give additional versatility?

I wonder if one added all the extras whether the local purchase might work
out about the same.

The additional problem is that one cannot always trust the specs as
printed - House of Tools has been wrong in the past!

Things are never simple...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Michael Koblic wrote:
This is the cheapest milling machine I have seen so far:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/pictu...3&NTITEM=CT133

Has anyone got some experience with it? Any comments on the specs? I suspect
someone will recognize it as an equivalent of a similar piece of Chinese
machinery sold in the USA under a different name (a game I have been playing
with mini-lathes recently :-)

I got mine for $495 (I think) on sale a couple
years ago. Since I have a Bridgeport, this was
for carting around to shows to show off my CNC
control gizmos. I wanted a "square" column, ie.
no round column that the head can swing around on
when raised or lowered.

It is not a great machine, but it does work, sort
of. The X-Y base is really not too bad, but 4" of
Y travel is a big limitation. The X axis has a
pair of ball bearings constraining one end of the
screw, but amazingly the Y axis just has a
shoulder of the screw pressing against the
bushing. This may work marginally for manual use,
but was a real problem for a CNC retrofit. I
bored the Y bearing block to accept a pair of
ball bearings, and it has worked amazingly well.

The spindle drive has plastic gears, and a top
speed of ~2000 RPM. For the kind of work you'd be
likely to do on such a machine, that is going to
be another limitation.
I could imagine doing a lot of work with 1/8"
carbide end mills, but you;d want more like 10,000
RPM for that. (But, I do the same thing on my
Bridgeport at 2720 RPM, so it can be done.)

Also, you REALLY want the R-8 version of this
machine, unless you already have a shop full of #3
Morse Taper tooling. Much more stuff is available
in R-8 that is almost impossible to get in Morse,
like stub milling arbors, slitting saw arbors, end
mill holders, fly cutters, indexable carbide end
mills, etc.

Yes, every tool supplier has this same machine,
often at a lower price (although it may have shot
up due to the recent financial turmoil).

I finally found a REAL use for this machine,
however! I converted it to CNC years ago, first
with steppers, then with servos, and took it to
shows for demos. One of the production parts I
make is a mounting plate for servo amps. Blanks
are cut from 1/8" aluminum, milled square and
bent, then they need to be drilled and tapped.
I had been using a Procunier tapping head on the
Bridgeport, and it works fairly well, but is an
incredibly long and wobbly assembly hanging about
11" out of the Bridgeport's quill. But, using
"thread drills" and the reversing drive in the
Procunier, it can drill, tap and retract the tap
in one smooth operation. Due to the way the
Bridgeport head is built, it is REALLY hard to fit
an encoder to the spindle to accomplish rigid
tapping. The mini-mill, however, has the top
bearing preload nut right on top of the head! So,
I fitted an encoder with index pulse to it and
adapted some timing pulleys to the spindle and
encoder. I then hooked up a servo amplifier to
the spindle motor, so it could be reversed under
computer control. Voila, rigid tapping on a $500
machine (with a few additions)!

See the bottom picture at
http://pico-systems.com/minimill.html for the
spindle encoder setup.

Jon

On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:41:49 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:

Also, Morse taper shanks with a soft and unmachined ends cost less
than $10 each and are suitable for making special cutter holders for
boring heads and fly cutters.
see
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...2393&category=
{also available in #2MT}

also see
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...2231&category=

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1609&category=
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1608&category=
{other fractional/metric sizes available but 3/8 and 1/2 will
cover almost all the endmills you will ever use}


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Oct 29, 1:00 am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:41:49 -0700, "Michael Koblic"

wrote:
Also, Morse taper shanks with a soft and unmachined ends cost less
than $10 each and are suitable for making special cutter holders for
boring heads and fly cutters.

seehttp://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2393...
{also available in #2MT}

also seehttp://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2231...

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1608...
{other fractional/metric sizes available but 3/8 and 1/2 will
cover almost all the endmills you will ever use}

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).



Michael wrote:

"...I had a look at the costs of end-mill holders for MT3 and they are
double
that of R8. I surmise I would need at least two - 3/8 and 1/2? The
collets
as well as the drill chuck, however, would give additional
versatility?... "

If you get a M3 spindle nose I would not bother with the set screw
type endmill holders.
The M3 collet holds the cutter securely.

The size range of M3 collets is up to 3/4" dia... same as R8. Just
buy a 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", & 3/4" capacity collets. Heck, CDCO
Machinery has an ad in the current issue of HSM listing 7 x M3 collets
(1/8" to 3/4" inclusive) for $53 US! To hold drill chucks I simply
fitted them with a parallel shank and hold them in an appropriate
collet. M3 blank end stub arbors are $6.50 US by a different
advertiser in HSM, who also has threaded M3 arbors suitable for
threaded drill chucks, $6.90 for 3/8"-24UNF and $7.50 for 1/2-20UNF /
5/8-16UNF. Less than $100 for this stuff and you are good to go!
Unca George pointed out a source of M3 blanks with a 1.5" dia.x 1.5"
long soft end, large enough to adapt for any tooling one is likely to
use in a mini-mill.

On a small mill you are unlikely to use any large face mills or
similar tools. In any case a cutter with a 3/4" shank held in a M3
collet is a pretty robust set-up.

All I am saying here is don't discount a good deal simply because the
spindle nose is M3. Personally I would pick M3 over R8 any day; of
course I am prejudiced... I have used both tapers in a milling
machine and own one with a M3 spindle nose.

Wolfgang

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:45:41 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
snip
If you get a M3 spindle nose I would not bother with the set screw
type endmill holders.
The M3 collet holds the cutter securely.
snip
I have both the collet and weldon style holders. It is much
easier to change the endmills in the weldon style with a
setscrew, which may not be a consideration if you don't change
the endmill frequently. The MT is not self-releasing and you will
need some way to jack the collet back out of the spindle. Both
styles hold the tool securely.

You are correct that you only need the 3/8 and 1/2 sizes for most
[all?] tooling.




Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:48:22 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:45:41 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
snip
If you get a M3 spindle nose I would not bother with the set screw
type endmill holders.
The M3 collet holds the cutter securely.
snip
I have both the collet and weldon style holders. It is much
easier to change the endmills in the weldon style with a
setscrew, which may not be a consideration if you don't change
the endmill frequently. The MT is not self-releasing and you will
need some way to jack the collet back out of the spindle. Both
styles hold the tool securely.

You are correct that you only need the 3/8 and 1/2 sizes for most
[all?] tooling.

----------
PS to my own message.

While the Weldon set-screw style end mill holders are indeed
easier to change the end mills, these also extend 2 to 3 inches
below the bottom of the spindle and depending on what you are
doing this loss of spindle to table distance can be a show
stopper.

This is why I have both.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Oct 29, 5:48 pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:45:41 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
snipIf you get a M3 spindle nose I would not bother with the set screw
type endmill holders.
The M3 collet holds the cutter securely.

snip
I have both the collet and weldon style holders. It is much
easier to change the endmills in the weldon style with a
setscrew, which may not be a consideration if you don't change
the endmill frequently. The MT is not self-releasing and you will
need some way to jack the collet back out of the spindle. Both
styles hold the tool securely.

You are correct that you only need the 3/8 and 1/2 sizes for most
[all?] tooling.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).



I really don't want to get into a ****ing contest over this, but let's
get back to some basics:

1) small mill, therefore daylight space will be a consideration.
Set screw holders subtract from this because of their projection from
the spindle nose.
2) probably ONLY mill in shop, therefore daylight space is a
consideration, especially if larger dia. drills (longer) are
contemplated, along with a vise.
3) light mill/spindle construction, keep cutter projection from
spindle nose to a minimum.
4) set screw holders clamp the cutter with some eccentricity which is
detrimental to very small cutters when the chip-per-tooth load nears
the cutter run-out. Collets, good ones, run at better concentricity.

Just my thoughts.

Wolfgang

wrote in message
...

I really don't want to get into a ****ing contest over this, but let's
get back to some basics:

1) small mill, therefore daylight space will be a consideration.
Set screw holders subtract from this because of their projection from
the spindle nose.
2) probably ONLY mill in shop, therefore daylight space is a
consideration, especially if larger dia. drills (longer) are
contemplated, along with a vise.
3) light mill/spindle construction, keep cutter projection from
spindle nose to a minimum.
4) set screw holders clamp the cutter with some eccentricity which is
detrimental to very small cutters when the chip-per-tooth load nears
the cutter run-out. Collets, good ones, run at better concentricity.

Just my thoughts.


OK, I shall referee :-)

I am sure you both make valid points and I appreciate the discussion. As a
result I had a further look at various web sites and made a couple of phone
calls.

The economics suggested by Wolfgang is valid perhaps in the USA but not in
Canada with the C-dollar plunging and the postages charged by US companies
(assuming always that, unlike e.g Grizzly, they actually ship to Canada).

From what you say I would conclude that *if* I wanted to buy a mill right
now I would be better off with this one:

http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=18460

because of the accessories and a bigger motor as well as no shipping.

I suspect that for the moment it is academic. I just got excited seeing a
mill for under $700. On the positive side, I sure have learned a lot from
this thread.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
From what you say I would conclude that *if* I wanted to buy a mill right
now I would be better off with this one:

http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=18460

because of the accessories and a bigger motor as well as no shipping.

I suspect that for the moment it is academic. I just got excited seeing a
mill for under $700. On the positive side, I sure have learned a lot from
this thread.


I have just learned that this mill is going on sale for $699 in November. Is
there no end to temptation...?

On Oct 30, 1:05 am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Michael Koblic" wrote in message

...

From what you say I would conclude that *if* I wanted to buy a mill right
now I would be better off with this one:

http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=18460

because of the accessories and a bigger motor as well as no shipping.

I suspect that for the moment it is academic. I just got excited seeing a
mill for under $700. On the positive side, I sure have learned a lot from
this thread.

I have just learned that this mill is going on sale for $699 in November. Is
there no end to temptation...?



Geez, Michael,

At that price, including the collets, why don't you end this torture
and buy the thing??:-)).

Suppose the price goes down by $50 or $60 over the next 3 months or
so, so what? You will have missed out on 3 months of pleasurable
occupation. Is this not worth the possible savings?

So end this torture, of all of us, already:-)).

Wolfgang

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:05:25 -0700, the infamous "Michael Koblic"
scrawled the following:


"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
From what you say I would conclude that *if* I wanted to buy a mill right
now I would be better off with this one:

http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=18460

because of the accessories and a bigger motor as well as no shipping.

I suspect that for the moment it is academic. I just got excited seeing a
mill for under $700. On the positive side, I sure have learned a lot from
this thread.


I have just learned that this mill is going on sale for $699 in November. Is
there no end to temptation...?

In the words of some immortal, anonymous lad,

"Lead me not into temptation. I can find it myself."

--
Change is the process by which the future invades our lives.
-- Alvin Toffler

wrote in message
...
Geez, Michael,

At that price, including the collets, why don't you end this torture
and buy the thing??:-)).

Suppose the price goes down by $50 or $60 over the next 3 months or
so, so what? You will have missed out on 3 months of pleasurable
occupation. Is this not worth the possible savings?

So end this torture, of all of us, already:-)).


I feel your pain...:-)

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Geez, Michael,

At that price, including the collets, why don't you end this torture
and buy the thing??:-)).

Suppose the price goes down by $50 or $60 over the next 3 months or
so, so what? You will have missed out on 3 months of pleasurable
occupation. Is this not worth the possible savings?

So end this torture, of all of us, already:-)).


I feel your pain...:-)
It's on order!!!!

On Oct 31, 9:40 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Michael Koblic" wrote in message

...



wrote in message
...
Geez, Michael,

At that price, including the collets, why don't you end this torture
and buy the thing??:-)).

Suppose the price goes down by $50 or $60 over the next 3 months or
so, so what? You will have missed out on 3 months of pleasurable
occupation. Is this not worth the possible savings?

So end this torture, of all of us, already:-)).

I feel your pain...:-)

It's on order!!!!

Yessss, the torture is over! Welcome to the wonderful world of true
metal mangling.

Wolfgang

wrote in message
...

It's on order!!!!

Yessss, the torture is over! Welcome to the wonderful world of true
metal mangling.

Do not get your hopes up! There is a whole ritual to go through before money
changes hands: Dancing around the mill. Licking it. Chanting incantations
and possibly Lord's prayer backwards. And of course counting, always
counting: Which tooth I can live without? Can I brake sufficiently well
with thread on only two tires? Etc., etc.

Of course, once it is bought one has to sacrifice a virgin to it which,
given the locals, is no easy task!