"David Merrill" wrote:

Apparently a long standing complaint against McMaster-Carr; see the
following Google Groups search.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...-8&sa=N&tab=wg

If this is a question of company policy, perhaps a letter to the CEO (Chief
Executive Officer) would be more effective than one to the sales executive.
Here is a place to get the CEO's contact information.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/135/135634.html

David Merrill


I love McMaster. I love Brownells (gun smithing supplies). Brownells
charges for the catalog but their website is pretty nice.

If McMaster wanted 5-10 bucks for their catalog, refundable for purchases
over a certain level, I'd be cool with it. A lot of catalogs get sent to
tire kickers.


Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

I understand your frustration but try see their point as well. Catalogs of
this caliber are not cheap, and EVERYONE wants one, including people that
will never spend a dime. We used to have them stolen from work all the time,
just because everyone and his brother wanted a personal copy at home. I'm
sure their sales team is coached often on the cost of these things, and the
importance of not passing them around like cheap ink pens. Sounds like you
might have ran head on, with a clueless newbie.


I wish they would put a pdf of their entire catalog as a pdf up as a
bittorent offering. That would put most of us into serious happy land.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Wes wrote:

"Maxwell" luv^2^fly^99@^cox.^net wrote:

I understand your frustration but try see their point as well. Catalogs of
this caliber are not cheap, and EVERYONE wants one, including people that
will never spend a dime. We used to have them stolen from work all the time,
just because everyone and his brother wanted a personal copy at home. I'm
sure their sales team is coached often on the cost of these things, and the
importance of not passing them around like cheap ink pens. Sounds like you
might have ran head on, with a clueless newbie.

I wish they would put a pdf of their entire catalog as a pdf up as a
bittorent offering. That would put most of us into serious happy land.


At least make each catagory availible in PDF so you can download the
parts you need.


--
aioe.org is home to cowards and terrorists

Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
* drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic.

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:31:58 GMT, Winston
wrote:

Rob Fraser wrote:
Well, just when you thought you heard it all.....

But Rob, you *hadn't* heard it all.

Lemme axe you a question:
When was the last time McMaster or any other vendor *refused to sell* you an in-stock item?

Happened to me about half an hour ago at a Grainger store.

The droid behind the counter explained that he couldn't sell me brake cleaner because it
was hazmat and I didn't have a business license. WTF??

*Now* you've heard it all.

--Winston
THEORETICALLY there is a lot of stuff you, as a consumer can NOT buy.
Also, THEORETICALLY there are a lot of places you, as a consumer,
cannot buy ANYTHING, in stock or not, UNLESS you are in "the
business".
Not just have a business licence.
Here in Ontario, try to buy a part for a gas appliance without a gas
fitter's licence. Aint going to happen.
Many electrical and plumbing WHOLESALERS will not sell anything to you
if you do not have the appropriate licence. PERIOD. Not just won't
sell it to you at trade - they don't sell retail AT ALL.

Really, that's the way it should be in many cases.
In the automotive trade we used to have "jobbers" or "wholesalers"
that sold just to the trade. Now any Tom Dick or Harry can walk into
most of these places and buy parts for the same price the small
shop-owner buys it for. Makes it pretty hard to make a living in that
business when your suppliers are your competition.
You say the parts cost for a job is $700 and the customer says you are
a crook because he can buy it for $625. A profit of 10% (and that's
not all profit, because you need to handle it, track it in inventory,
invoice it etc) is certainly not unfairly high! - But now you are a
crook.

In the computer business, I as a reseller/consultant can not buy half
the stuff being sold in the big box stores for even 2 or 3% LESS than
they are selling it for - and I buy from the same warehouse they do.
Needless to say, I don't sell much hardware any more.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:21:57 -0400, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada
wrote:



--Winston
THEORETICALLY there is a lot of stuff you, as a consumer can NOT buy.
Also, THEORETICALLY there are a lot of places you, as a consumer,
cannot buy ANYTHING, in stock or not, UNLESS you are in "the
business".
Not just have a business licence.
Here in Ontario, try to buy a part for a gas appliance without a gas
fitter's licence. Aint going to happen.
Many electrical and plumbing WHOLESALERS will not sell anything to you
if you do not have the appropriate licence. PERIOD. Not just won't
sell it to you at trade - they don't sell retail AT ALL.

Really, that's the way it should be in many cases.
In the automotive trade we used to have "jobbers" or "wholesalers"
that sold just to the trade. Now any Tom Dick or Harry can walk into
most of these places and buy parts for the same price the small
shop-owner buys it for. Makes it pretty hard to make a living in that
business when your suppliers are your competition.
You say the parts cost for a job is $700 and the customer says you are
a crook because he can buy it for $625. A profit of 10% (and that's
not all profit, because you need to handle it, track it in inventory,
invoice it etc) is certainly not unfairly high! - But now you are a
crook.

In the computer business, I as a reseller/consultant can not buy half
the stuff being sold in the big box stores for even 2 or 3% LESS than
they are selling it for - and I buy from the same warehouse they do.
Needless to say, I don't sell much hardware any more.


Works both ways. I get extremely irate when I am forced to pay more per hour
than my company charges for me as a senior engineer to have some ignorant oaf
do a worse job than I would do on a car, household appliance etc.

The trade licensing systems are nothing more than legalised closed shops. We
have the situation that I, an Electrical engineer, our site's chief electrical
engineer and our main cabling contractor are all qualified, as is, to work on
electrical installations in industrial plants any current, any voltage. But we
are not legally allowed to do wiring in our own houses without paying $900/yr
registration fees.



Mark Rand
RTFM

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:34:17 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Paul K. Dickman" quickly quoth:


"Rob Fraser" FraserRacing"AT"RobFraser.Net wrote in message
...
Well, just when you thought you heard it all.....


I sent in a request for the 2008 McMaster Carr catalog as they added a
lot and they are close to my shop. I have been a loyal customer since I
started in the business about 15 years back.

On to the letter I got in the mail yesterday stating that "Due to a
limited supply of catalogs we are unable to send you one....etc...please
use online ordering"
Rob Fraser

Fraser Competition Engines
Chicago, IL.


Frankly, I have a problem getting rid of their catalogs.

You haven't tried selling them on eBay, have you? People line up for
miles. New ones are going for $60 there right now, Paul.

--
Books are the compasses and telescopes and sextants and charts which other
men have prepared to help us navigate the dangerous seas of human life.
--Jesse Lee Bennett

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:44:10 +0000, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark
Rand quickly quoth:

Works both ways. I get extremely irate when I am forced to pay more per hour
than my company charges for me as a senior engineer to have some ignorant oaf
do a worse job than I would do on a car, household appliance etc.

I hear that.


The trade licensing systems are nothing more than legalised closed shops. We
have the situation that I, an Electrical engineer, our site's chief electrical
engineer and our main cabling contractor are all qualified, as is, to work on
electrical installations in industrial plants any current, any voltage. But we
are not legally allowed to do wiring in our own houses without paying $900/yr
registration fees.

Gee, no guns, no knives, and licensed DIY? That's a major Nanny
State. Condolences.

If I were you, I'd either revise my governmental unit or leave the
country. Across the pond, we're expecting a governmental unit
revision RSN.

--
Books are the compasses and telescopes and sextants and charts which other
men have prepared to help us navigate the dangerous seas of human life.
--Jesse Lee Bennett

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:44:10 +0000, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark
Rand quickly quoth:

Works both ways. I get extremely irate when I am forced to pay more per hour
than my company charges for me as a senior engineer to have some ignorant oaf
do a worse job than I would do on a car, household appliance etc.

I hear that.

The trade licensing systems are nothing more than legalised closed shops. We
have the situation that I, an Electrical engineer, our site's chief electrical
engineer and our main cabling contractor are all qualified, as is, to work on
electrical installations in industrial plants any current, any voltage. But we
are not legally allowed to do wiring in our own houses without paying $900/yr
registration fees.

Gee, no guns, no knives, and licensed DIY? That's a major Nanny
State. Condolences.

Add in no owning HP gas cylinders, the in-progress ban on fire
extinguishers and plenty of other insanity.


If I were you, I'd either revise my governmental unit or leave the
country. Across the pond, we're expecting a governmental unit
revision RSN.

Do not leave the country - *fix* the country before it's too late.

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:44:10 +0000, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:21:57 -0400, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada
wrote:



--Winston
THEORETICALLY there is a lot of stuff you, as a consumer can NOT buy.
Also, THEORETICALLY there are a lot of places you, as a consumer,
cannot buy ANYTHING, in stock or not, UNLESS you are in "the
business".
Not just have a business licence.
Here in Ontario, try to buy a part for a gas appliance without a gas
fitter's licence. Aint going to happen.
Many electrical and plumbing WHOLESALERS will not sell anything to you
if you do not have the appropriate licence. PERIOD. Not just won't
sell it to you at trade - they don't sell retail AT ALL.

Really, that's the way it should be in many cases.
In the automotive trade we used to have "jobbers" or "wholesalers"
that sold just to the trade. Now any Tom Dick or Harry can walk into
most of these places and buy parts for the same price the small
shop-owner buys it for. Makes it pretty hard to make a living in that
business when your suppliers are your competition.
You say the parts cost for a job is $700 and the customer says you are
a crook because he can buy it for $625. A profit of 10% (and that's
not all profit, because you need to handle it, track it in inventory,
invoice it etc) is certainly not unfairly high! - But now you are a
crook.

In the computer business, I as a reseller/consultant can not buy half
the stuff being sold in the big box stores for even 2 or 3% LESS than
they are selling it for - and I buy from the same warehouse they do.
Needless to say, I don't sell much hardware any more.


Works both ways. I get extremely irate when I am forced to pay more per hour
than my company charges for me as a senior engineer to have some ignorant oaf
do a worse job than I would do on a car, household appliance etc.

The trade licensing systems are nothing more than legalised closed shops. We
have the situation that I, an Electrical engineer, our site's chief electrical
engineer and our main cabling contractor are all qualified, as is, to work on
electrical installations in industrial plants any current, any voltage. But we
are not legally allowed to do wiring in our own houses without paying $900/yr
registration fees.



Mark Rand
RTFM

You can wire your own home without a licence as long as you can make
it pass inspection. At least in Canada.
Licencing is consumer protection - to a point. Means the guy has at
least a reasonable understanding of what he is doing and has had some
training.
At least in Canada.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Now any Tom Dick or Harry can walk into
most of these places and buy parts for the same price the small
shop-owner buys it for. Makes it pretty hard to make a living in that
business when your suppliers are your competition.

You earn a living by having buddies refuse to sell stuff to people with
money? Profit derives from adding value. Not from tradesmen scheming to
keep business to their insider's club. Fie on restraint of trade.

wrote:
On Mar 27, 8:18 am, "Rob Fraser" FraserRacing"AT"RobFraser.Net
wrote:

Venting.....

Rob Fraser

It's important to go into these situations with a hot head, ready to
kick in some skull. There's no room for a cool attitude or a hint of
understanding/tolerance when dealing with your suppliers (much less
your customers), or indeed any facet of civilized society.

I can tell you from first hand experience that you're far more likely
to get what you want when you raise your voice, start spitting into
the phone receiver, or better yet, insulting someone's loved ones.

You've nailed it Rob. If everyone acted on a combination of bad faith
and the temporary shot of adrenaline coarsing through their veins, I'd
be teleporting to work tomorrow (without a cold).

Regards,

Robin


email the ceo and everyone else. its called an EECB executive email
carpet bomb. see consumerist.com

ceo Jay Delaney

contact info

McMaster-Carr Supply Company
600 N. County Line Rd.
Elmhurst, IL 60126-2081
IL Tel. 630-600-3600
Fax 630-834-9427

try

jdelaney2mcmaster.com
pwiggins
p.wiggins

if nothing else call corporate and ask for the legal department, when
they pick up say you must of been transferred wrong hyou were holdig for
Jay Delaney

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:34:17 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Paul K. Dickman" quickly quoth:
-snip-

Frankly, I have a problem getting rid of their catalogs.

You haven't tried selling them on eBay, have you? People line up for
miles. New ones are going for $60 there right now, Paul.

Holy crap! Just looked at their completed listings. $60-70
[including shipping] is standard for the new catalog - though I see
one over $80 with a 'Buy it now'.

But how about that 1939 catalog for $492 --

Makes you wonder if the 'bitch' was just supplying her ebay friends.
Given the likelihood of hanky-panky I'd be sure to drop the CEO a
line.
[actually my first instinct if I was in the op's shoes would have been
to ask to talk to a supervisor-- and then *their* supervisor, and so
on until a catalog was in the mail]

Jim
[Doesn't seem to be a market for the unsolicited Northern Tool catalog
I got yesterday.g]

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:06:26 -0400, clare at snyder dot ontario dot
canada wrote:

You can wire your own home without a licence

You can do that in the UK too - at least in parts of your house that
are deemed "safe" and as long as it's a replacement of an existing
cable.

as long as you can make
it pass inspection. At least in Canada.

Well you can be qualified to sit on the relevant International
Standard Committee, actually make the engineering decisions and write
the relevant British Standard (Wiring Code) but you are not deemed
fit to implement that knowledge and carry out wiring installation work
in your own kitchen.


--

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Most Grainger stores won't deal with you unless you can present a business
license or permit on your first visit. They are strictly wholesale. A few
stores do "under the table" retail transactions, when they know the
tradesmen they're dealing with.

Gee, uncle hasn't had a bit of trouble buying at our local Graingers. Just
a retired guy needing some item.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On 29 Mar 2008 03:14:20 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "DoN.
Nichols" quickly quoth:

On 2008-03-28, Rob Fraser FraserRacing wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
Ignoramus17370 fired this volley
in :


Thanks Rob. One day I will go. I have a McMaster account, but I have
Grainger just 2 miles from home. If they can serve little guys like
me, (with a S corp) I will be interested,.

Most Grainger stores won't deal with you unless you can present a business
license or permit on your first visit. They are strictly wholesale. A

[ ... ]

That is simply not true. I send people there all the time and they never
have problems. I may be elsewhere but all the stores I have been in and it's
a lot traveling on the racing circuit reinforces my retort.

They have refused to do business with me as an individual. They
said that if I could show a business card or a business license, they
could then deal with me. Since MSC happily ships to me (typical next
day arrival), and ships a massive catalog every year (plus the monthly
flyers) I figure that I can do without the hassle of a company which
makes such demands to get my business. FWIW, this is in Northern VA.

So cut a "DON, Inc." business card on your computer and pay via any
credit card. I did something like that before I started my business 17
years ago. It helps me keep my options open.

--
Books are the compasses and telescopes and sextants and charts which other
men have prepared to help us navigate the dangerous seas of human life.
--Jesse Lee Bennett

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:53:12 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner quickly quoth:

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:23:56 -0500, RoyJ
wrote:

What's wrong with going to the local print shop and doing up some
business cards? "Don Nichols Construction Services" out to do the trick.
$20 or so, they come in handy for buying stuff when it's over priced.
Just give them your card with a 'call me if it doesn't sell'.


http://www.vistaprint.com/

I highly recommend them. Tis where I get all my cards.

They spam me once a week with specials, but Ive got em on block..so I
never see the spam.

They have a very NIFTY online design center that allows you to design
your own cards, using their large! library of graphics or your own.

http://www.vistaprint.com/vp/ns/gallery.aspx?g=9


The cards cost about $12 delivered for 250 and are on very nice card
stock.
They can print both sides. I let em put their free ad on the back,
makes a nice note area..good thinking on their part.

I paid $20, delivered, for 1,000 of their cards built precisely to my
specs with my info on -both- sides. (What a sale!) Good stuff. Do NOT
let them put their info on the back. It makes your clients
(rightfully) think that you're cheap, diminishing their trust in you
and increasing their attempts to insert ethnicity of choice here you
down on price all the more.

--
Books are the compasses and telescopes and sextants and charts which other
men have prepared to help us navigate the dangerous seas of human life.
--Jesse Lee Bennett

Larry Jaques wrote:
So cut a "DON, Inc." business card on your computer and pay via any
credit card. I did something like that before I started my business 17
years ago. It helps me keep my options open.

I did that quite a few years ago and since I didn't have a good
paper cutter even took the light card stock over to Kinkos and
cut the cards out on their cutter. :-) Takl about CHEEP. :-)
...lew...

Rob Fraser wrote:
Well, just when you thought you heard it all.....


I am not surprised that they still treat their customers like that.
This is a note I wrote to them in 1996:



October 4, 1996


Ray Raus
Marketing
McMaster-Carr Supply Company
PO Box 54960
Los Angeles, CA 90054-0960



Dear Mr. Raus,

I have never been so insulted as by you and other representatives of
your company. I was interested in doing business with you, so I
requested your catalogue. I might as well have requested the Holy Grail.

On the phone I was "grilled" by your representatives, who wanted to know
how many people work in my company and how long I have been in business.
From the line of questioning it was painfully clear to me, that you
are not at all interested to do business with me, that you consider me
and my business insignificant and below your interest.

Well let me tell you, my business may be a small one, but it is not
insignificant. My work has been deemed significant enough to have been
purchased by the Smithsonian Institution for the permanent collection of
the National Museum of American Art as well
as by the Oakland museum.

I accessed your Web site. The first thing you announce there, is that
you are "a publisher of a catalogue". This catalogue, as with other
supply companies, is your only marketing tool. Yet you are not willing
to distribute it to a potential customer with money to spend.

You also say that you are "a customer-driven organization that strives
to give exceptional service". You don't even begin to understand what a
lie that statement is, given what my experience with your company has
been. If you were indeed customer driven, you would have sent me that
catalogue gladly, like other companies have done, and with who I have
been doing business I might add.

You suggest that if I need information on a specific product, the
information can be faxed to me. I have requested that on three
separate occasions. On all three occasions, the information faxed to me
was the wrong information. I bought the needed tools and supplies
elsewhere.

In closing I would like to say, that I will go out of my way, not to do
business with your company, because of your unmitigated arrogance and
insulting behavior towards me. How dare you treat people like that.
You have no honor.

Yours,

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Rob Fraser" FraserRacing"AT"RobFraser.Net fired this volley in
:

I sent in a request for the 2008 McMaster Carr catalog as they
added a
lot and they are close to my shop. I have been a loyal customer since
I started in the business about 15 years back.

On to the letter I got in the mail yesterday stating that "Due to a
limited supply of catalogs we are unable to send you
one....etc...please use online ordering"


Rob, don't shoot yourself in the foot just because of ONE customer
service ****-up. You know as well as I do that they're just about the
best company around in terms of customer service. If they screw up,
they'll fix it.


That is not my expereince at all. Not sending the catalogue seems to be
company policy.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Wes wrote:
"David Merrill" wrote:

Apparently a long standing complaint against McMaster-Carr; see the
following Google Groups search.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...-8&sa=N&tab=wg

If this is a question of company policy, perhaps a letter to the CEO (Chief
Executive Officer) would be more effective than one to the sales executive.
Here is a place to get the CEO's contact information.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/135/135634.html

David Merrill


I love McMaster. I love Brownells (gun smithing supplies). Brownells
charges for the catalog but their website is pretty nice.

If McMaster wanted 5-10 bucks for their catalog, refundable for purchases
over a certain level, I'd be cool with it. A lot of catalogs get sent to
tire kickers.




There was one (#114) for sale right now on eBay, with a "Buy It Now"
price of $60.00 on it (it sold). Another couple with high bids of
$31.97 and $49.95, and one (from 1968) with a high bid of $50.00

I found a number of them (Catalogue #114) that sold for over $70.00,
many around $50.00

And one from 1939 (#46) sold for $492.00

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Chris Henry wrote:



email the ceo and everyone else. its called an EECB executive email
carpet bomb.

That's what I did when Enco sent me a dividing head that was built to
different specs, than was those that were listed in their catalog. This
had cost me a couple of hundred dollars extra for collets I had ordered
for it from Hardinge.

In the end, they sent gave me the dividing head for free, and reimbursed
me for the wrong collets.

I continue to buy from Enco.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Rob Fraser wrote:
Well,

Here is where I stand. I showed the letter to both Fastenal and Grainger
in separate meetings yesterday and lobbied that given a better price margin
I would not do business with McMaster Carr over this insult. As a result.
BOTH competitors have lowered my total costing and lowered my margins to
gain the influx and were very, very eager to pick up the business that has
been lost to McMaster Carr. My profit margins have now greatly improved and
I have one less headache in my life. I flat out refuse to run a business and
be told something as ridiculous as "you can't have a catalog" The winning
point is now that both Grainger and Fastenal have given me better pricing I
would have no use for McMaster anyhow. They offered no break at all
historically. So I guess this stupid bitch that sent the letter actually
helped my business by hurting theirs. Ironic is it not?
There has never been any thing that they offered that I could not find
elsewhere for the scope of my industry needs anyway. That letter to the CEO
is in draft and I assure you it is scathing to say the least.

I suggest that you mention your experience with Fastenal and Grainger in
that letter. Maybe, albeit not likely, they will change their policy.

I guess one
person can make a difference. At least I have her name so I never hire her
for the office once McMaster fires her for her stupidity.

I do not think it is the fault of that one person. I believe it is a
company policy to be that stingy with the catalogs. This catalog issue
has been mentioned online for many years. Don't be so hard on the poor
woman, who probably works for minimum wage and has supervisors breathing
down her neck, if she sends out too many catalogs.

In the last 5
years (the purge from SAP) indicated I spent about 60k with them as a
correction to my original figure. That letter is GOLD when presented to a
competitor (who were both stupefied and left shaking their heads when
presented with it). As for the Walgreen's reference it does not apply. I
have other shops and vendors in the area anyhow. I lost nothing by ditching
them as a vendor.

Good for you. They don't deserve your business.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Abrasha wrote:

And one from 1939 (#46) sold for $492.00

Thank goodness old Machinerys Handbooks don't go that high.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 06:56:21 -0400, Wes wrote:

Abrasha wrote:

And one from 1939 (#46) sold for $492.00

Thank goodness old Machinerys Handbooks don't go that high.

Wes
Picked up #26 the other day, looked as though it had never been
opened, for $9.99 + tacks, to go with my hardly used #13. The mildewed
#22 went to second son.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:59:25 -0400, Wes wrote:

Gerald Miller wrote:

Picked up #26 the other day, looked as though it had never been
opened, for $9.99 + tacks, to go with my hardly used #13. The mildewed
#22 went to second son.
Gerry :-)}

Cool. I'm partial to my #5. Never know when you need to look up info on
staybolts. (Acually I did once for someone)

Wes
Well, I do have the tap info on page 1266 of #13, if anyone needs it!
I highly recommend getting a new handbook at least every fifty years,
just so you don't miss something, you know.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Abrasha" wrote in message
. ..
Rob Fraser wrote:
Well, just when you thought you heard it all.....


I am not surprised that they still treat their customers like that. This
is a note I wrote to them in 1996:



October 4, 1996


Ray Raus
Marketing
McMaster-Carr Supply Company
PO Box 54960
Los Angeles, CA 90054-0960



Dear Mr. Raus,

I have never been so insulted as by you and other representatives of your
company. I was interested in doing business with you, so I requested your
catalogue. I might as well have requested the Holy Grail.

On the phone I was "grilled" by your representatives, who wanted to know
how many people work in my company and how long I have been in business.
From the line of questioning it was painfully clear to me, that you are
not at all interested to do business with me, that you consider me and my
business insignificant and below your interest.

Well let me tell you, my business may be a small one, but it is not
insignificant. My work has been deemed significant enough to have been
purchased by the Smithsonian Institution for the permanent collection of
the National Museum of American Art as well
as by the Oakland museum.

I accessed your Web site. The first thing you announce there, is that you
are "a publisher of a catalogue". This catalogue, as with other supply
companies, is your only marketing tool. Yet you are not willing to
distribute it to a potential customer with money to spend.

You also say that you are "a customer-driven organization that strives to
give exceptional service". You don't even begin to understand what a lie
that statement is, given what my experience with your company has been.
If you were indeed customer driven, you would have sent me that catalogue
gladly, like other companies have done, and with who I have been doing
business I might add.

You suggest that if I need information on a specific product, the
information can be faxed to me. I have requested that on three separate
occasions. On all three occasions, the information faxed to me was the
wrong information. I bought the needed tools and supplies elsewhere.

In closing I would like to say, that I will go out of my way, not to do
business with your company, because of your unmitigated arrogance and
insulting behavior towards me. How dare you treat people like that. You
have no honor.

Yours,

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


Now that works!! And I don't feel so alone. They can kiss my ass. I need
a clevis pin and loop and I was going to stop in McMaster with a Grainger
catalog to see if they have it. (not likely, it's for rigging a machine to
move) I think Fastenal will have to whip one up but I wanted to be an
asshole and let them see my displeasure with them as a whole.

Rob

On 2008-04-02, Rob Fraser FraserRacing wrote:
Now that works!! And I don't feel so alone. They can kiss my ass. I need
a clevis pin and loop and I was going to stop in McMaster with a Grainger
catalog to see if they have it. (not likely, it's for rigging a machine to
move) I think Fastenal will have to whip one up but I wanted to be an
asshole and let them see my displeasure with them as a whole.

If you need to move your bridgeport, you can borrow my various clevis
shackles and also the eyebolt that goes into a bridgeport. McMaster
has clevis pins and clevis shackles.

i

Drew, I STRONGLY DISAGREE with you suggestion to not bother with sending
the CEO a letter. If he is any CEO at all worth his salt, he will welcome
input from customers be it positive or negative so that he can either
augment the positive or eradicate the negative. THAT IS HIS JOB.

I applaud Fraser for having the spine to do WHAT IS RIGHT.

If everyone did this, can you imagine what we could have; even gasoline at
$1.25 a gallon.

j/b


"Drew McEachren" wrote in message
news:5I%Hj.9665$9X3.9662@edtnps82...
Amen Mr. Fraser:

I own and operate a fab shop, and as you stated before "I work hard for
my money/customers and I expect/demand the same from my vendors. I have
had the same feeling as you about McMaster Carr for quite awhile. ****
THEM. I have suppliers with whom I do similar volumes (some more, some
less) as you mention and if I ever came across the attitude that you speak
of, I am more than happy to cut them free. Like you say; if their ****
poor attitudes unwittingly give you better advantages towards your bottom
line via their competitors, then boo hoo for them. It's just good
business. Come to think of it, I actually won't deal with a local
supplier that is unwilling to send an outside/industrial sales rep to my
premises regularly. I don't have time to be constantly running out for
this and that. Deliver it, deliver it now, and deliver it free. Thank
you very much; in return I will pay my bill on time, and continue to do
business with you. Everyone happy? Good.

As for the letter to the CEO, why waste your time and raise your blood
pressure even more. You, I believe have gotten your satisfaction by
shouting at that dumb bitch, (don't get me wrong, I like to kill the
messenger too!) and in turn relieved them of minimum $10K annually. In
addition, you have also advertised for them on this forum (as well as
other places I'm sure). How does that saying go? Something about ****ed
off people talking to lots of others!!!! Another satisfying thought......
When you get their catalog, you can use it for reference, and then order
from Grainger, Fastenal, etc. Plus, your local reps now know that you
will not tolerate bull**** from them or their companies, and have seen
first hand the result of it.

I am sure that there are many differing opinions, especially from
people that are strictly retail purchasers. The beauty of a capitalist
system is that there is an end user/purchaser for everything, and if I am
a business that somewhere along the way handles, modifies, manufactures
goods or materials, I am entitled to my cut. You don't **** and moan
about it, just find a way to make it work in your favor. If you can't, it
is your own problem, move aside or be crushed under the wheels of the
machine that we have all created.

In closing, I would like to say (and I am sure you can agree) that
there is a certain satisfaction in 'going into these situations with a hot
head, ready to kick in some skull'. If I'm kept happy, I have a real cool
attitude and can be quite understanding and tolerant when dealing with my
suppliers.

Drew

"Rob Fraser" FraserRacing"AT"RobFraser.Net wrote in message
news
Well,

Here is where I stand. I showed the letter to both Fastenal and
Grainger in separate meetings yesterday and lobbied that given a better
price margin I would not do business with McMaster Carr over this insult.
As a result. BOTH competitors have lowered my total costing and lowered
my margins to gain the influx and were very, very eager to pick up the
business that has been lost to McMaster Carr. My profit margins have now
greatly improved and I have one less headache in my life. I flat out
refuse to run a business and be told something as ridiculous as "you
can't have a catalog" The winning point is now that both Grainger and
Fastenal have given me better pricing I would have no use for McMaster
anyhow. They offered no break at all historically. So I guess this stupid
bitch that sent the letter actually helped my business by hurting theirs.
Ironic is it not?
There has never been any thing that they offered that I could not
find elsewhere for the scope of my industry needs anyway. That letter to
the CEO is in draft and I assure you it is scathing to say the least. I
guess one person can make a difference. At least I have her name so I
never hire her for the office once McMaster fires her for her stupidity.
In the last 5 years (the purge from SAP) indicated I spent about 60k with
them as a correction to my original figure. That letter is GOLD when
presented to a competitor (who were both stupefied and left shaking their
heads when presented with it). As for the Walgreen's reference it does
not apply. I have other shops and vendors in the area anyhow. I lost
nothing by ditching them as a vendor.

Respects,

Rob Fraser

Fraser Competition Engines
Chicago, IL.