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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Banning incandescent lamps?
EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps.
I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...LWOHv:e261985: What, are we gonna have lightbulb police? Apparently the left-hand thread is an exemption. Are we gonna see a boom in right-to-left-hand-thread lamp base adapters? Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! |
#2
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Banning incandescent lamps?
Richard J Kinch wrote:
EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps. I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...LWOHv:e261985: What, are we gonna have lightbulb police? Sure, while they are at it they probably will want to inspect my gun collection. Might have a dangerous lightbulb in the gun safes. Apparently the left-hand thread is an exemption. Are we gonna see a boom in right-to-left-hand-thread lamp base adapters? Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! That link is a session link. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...6enr.txt .pdf This should work better. As far as your original question, I'm trying to read this but it is giving me a headache. Btw, you need ANSI and other standards to understand the bill. So how am a I a common citizen for who ignorance of law is considered no defense supposed to comply with this? Like most enrolled bills you have to have copies of all the other referenced bills passed into law where one word in a paragraph modified by this bill can drastically change the effect of already enacted laws. Not only do we need term limits, we need limits on the size of each congress critters staff. This wasn't written my our legislators, they are too busy raising money for their next election. Wes |
#3
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Banning incandescent lamps?
In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote: Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! It's no problem getting 35mpg, the problem is affording it Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
#4
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Banning incandescent lamps?
Phooey. My '79 diesel Rabbit gets 50 mpg+ just bopping around town.
JR Dweller in the cellar Richard J Kinch wrote: EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps. I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...LWOHv:e261985: What, are we gonna have lightbulb police? Apparently the left-hand thread is an exemption. Are we gonna see a boom in right-to-left-hand-thread lamp base adapters? Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses -------------------------------------------------------------- Dependence is Vulnerability: -------------------------------------------------------------- "Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal" "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.." |
#5
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Dec 22, 1:34 am, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! Really? I have a 9 year old car that is the best performing car I've ever owned, but it gets 39 mpg on highway and 32-33 mpg in town. I can't buy one with comparable milage today from the same company. They say it is impossible. Have those laws of phyics changed since they built my car? |
#6
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Banning incandescent lamps?
"Don Stauffer in Minnesota" wrote in message ... Have those laws of phyics changed since they built my car? And mine too? My 1980 Plymouth Champ easily met the future EPA rules without computers and without fuel injection. Imagine what that car could do today if it had a transplant of ordinary 2000-era technology. Vaughn |
#7
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Dec 21, 11:34 pm, Richard J Kinch wrote:
EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps. I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...LWOHv:e261985: What, are we gonna have lightbulb police? Apparently the left-hand thread is an exemption. Are we gonna see a boom in right-to-left-hand-thread lamp base adapters? Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! Here is my take on all the expert opinion that the government looks to for justification of these environmental laws. When they talk about efficiency, they make up the parameters to fit their needs. The incandescent light is a heat generating device. It converts electricity to heat and is 100% efficient at doing it. A part of that heat is detectable by the inefficient receptors on the front of our heads. The inefficient part of the equation is not the source, but the receiver. Our home is heated by a heat pump backed up by an electric furnace. When the weather is really cold, the electric heat unit is on quite a bit. The light bulbs in our home are also on and contribute to the heat just as much as the furnace does. Nothing is saved by turning off the light, but leaving the electric furnace running. We use a 60 watt incandescent bulb in a well insulated outbuilding to keep the well water works from freezing. Works just fine. When extremely cold weather is expected, we change to a 100 watt bulb. Many of our neighbors do the same. You can't use a compact florescent bulb for that. I guess the light bulb police will let us use 1,000 watt heaters instead. Out side lights are a different story. There, any heat is immediately lost, so with some exceptions, those bulbs are florescent. The exception being the motion controlled flood lights. On a different note, the florescent lamps all generate radio noise. Many hams in the area have noted when they turn their vhf beams toward a town or city notice an increase in the noise level. The replacement of incandescent lamps will mean that level will continue to rise. Just my $0.02 worth. Paul, KD7HB in Central Oregon |
#8
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:34:57 -0600, Richard J Kinch wrote:
EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps. I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/ ~c110KLWOHv:e261985: What, are we gonna have lightbulb police? Sure. They'll make business do it, and not pay for it. Both parties like to spout pro-business rhetoric, the left likes to spout "pay as you go" while the right likes to spout "small government" -- but in the end, they always try to force businesses into being the cop first (see the immigration law in Arizona for an example). So the _traceable_ government stays small, while the government's responsibilities get forked onto business, and you pay for it whether you like it or not. Apparently the left-hand thread is an exemption. Are we gonna see a boom in right-to-left-hand-thread lamp base adapters? Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! 35 mpg cars are easy -- just make them small and light. They won't survive a collision with a Hummer or a semi as well as a Ford Expedition, true. But there'll be fewer Hummers on the road, and because you always survive the collision you successfully avoid the population will get smarter over time. -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
#9
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:34:57 -0600, Richard J Kinch wrote:
EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps. I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/ ~c110KLWOHv:e261985: -- snip -- I've never had a compact florescent light last me more than two years, and they often fail within six months. Given the amount of stuff in one of those, which implies a lot of energy expenditure to manufacture, I question the notion that you'll really save anything over the life cycle of the bulb by using incandescents. (and, compact florescent lights use mercury, and become a hazardous waste issue the instant they enter your door -- assuming free manufacture, I'll trade off the inefficiency of an incandescent light for it's safety any day). -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
#10
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Banning incandescent lamps?
I'm not in favour of banning incandescent lamps. One of their greatest
advantages is that whatever kind of lamp you have, you can buy a replacement and fit it easily. This isn't the case with many other light sources such as LEDs, which are promoted as being replacements for incandescent lamps. The manufacturers will tell you that the lamps aren't replaceable because they don't need to be replaced in a very long time, but this simply isn't true. Best wishes, Chris |
#11
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:27:08 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth: Phooey. My '79 diesel Rabbit gets 50 mpg+ just bopping around town. How do you feel about the engine, besides it being a VubDub and the noisiest futher mucker in the known world? Cost to maintain? Ease of maintenance? -- Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS |
#12
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Banning incandescent lamps?
Got sucked into the whole compact flourescent whirlpool a
few years ago. Local power company (Portland General Electric) was handing out coupons for free/deep discount/rebate on compact flourescents, and we were lighting up a new home. I think there are maybe 4 left in the whole house. Short life, unacceptable warm up time, just general crappy performance. Unless there has been a huge improvement in the CF technology, I'll keep my incandescents! |
#13
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:57:33 -0500, Wes wrote:
Richard J Kinch wrote: EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps. I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...LWOHv:e261985: What, are we gonna have lightbulb police? Sure, while they are at it they probably will want to inspect my gun collection. Might have a dangerous lightbulb in the gun safes. I changed mine out to 4' single tube florescents. |
#14
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Dec 22, 1:05 pm, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:27:08 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, JR North quickly quoth: Phooey. My '79 diesel Rabbit gets 50 mpg+ just bopping around town. How do you feel about the engine, besides it being a VubDub and the noisiest futher mucker in the known world? Cost to maintain? Ease of maintenance? -- Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS i get 50 around town 60+ in the highway in a semi new VubDub Its no worse than a honda with a fartcan exhaust it IS as loud as a V8 gas like the ford 4 liter but still its not the end of the world to make a reasonably sized efficient vehicle that still feels and drives like a car. Maintenance isnt terrible either, Cost is a bit higher granted but between stuff done at home and the engne block being rock solid its not a biggie |
#15
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Dec 22, 1:22 pm, "BillM" wrote:
Got sucked into the whole compact flourescent whirlpool a few years ago. Local power company (Portland General Electric) was handing out coupons for free/deep discount/rebate on compact flourescents, and we were lighting up a new home. I think there are maybe 4 left in the whole house. Short life, unacceptable warm up time, just general crappy performance. Unless there has been a huge improvement in the CF technology, I'll keep my incandescents! My biggest issue with CF's is the colour temperature can vary wildly from painful blue to a fine warm yellowish red. I'm positive that there will be exceptions for industrial use like stage lighting or as heating. even quartz halogen could be called incandescent. there IS logic behind getting rid of some cases of them. It is stupid to use a heater as a light source. It makes sense to use a heater that gives of excess light as a heat and light source however. As many have said a blanket ban is stupid but there are good reasons to replace them in many cases A little sense in cutting use will help greatly Brent Ottawa Canada |
#16
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Banning incandescent lamps?
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:34:57 -0600, Richard J Kinch wrote: EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps. I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/ ~c110KLWOHv:e261985: -- snip -- I've never had a compact florescent light last me more than two years, and they often fail within six months. Given the amount of stuff in one of those, which implies a lot of energy expenditure to manufacture, I question the notion that you'll really save anything over the life cycle of the bulb by using incandescents. (and, compact florescent lights use mercury, and become a hazardous waste issue the instant they enter your door -- assuming free manufacture, I'll trade off the inefficiency of an incandescent light for it's safety any day). Maybe try a different brand?. The oldest I have was about 5 years old and working fine until I dropped it, it was a slow warm-up one so got relegated to the blasting booth a couple of years ago, all the newer ones are virtually instant on. The others in the house are mostly 3 to 4 years old and seem to be going strong, not had one fail yet. When time for disposal i'll take them to the local council site that handles fluorescents for recycling. I'm not sure of the efficiency of the compact fluorescents at start-up, like normal flourescents can take a large starting current, so have only changed out those lights that will be on for longer periods, all those that are on for a short period are still incandescent. |
#17
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Banning incandescent lamps?
nick hull wrote in
: In article , Richard J Kinch wrote: Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! It's no problem getting 35mpg, the problem is affording it Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ I had a 1962 MG Midget - fancy version of the Mk. II A-H Sprite - that gave me 33 MPG City, 55 MPG Highway. If this could be done 45 years ago then why can't it be done today? BTW, for one car that's slated to hit the market about a year from now that'll (supposedly) get over 180 MPG, go to http://www/loremo.com. Too bad the SafetyNazis will prevent US sales. |
#18
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Banning incandescent lamps?
Brent wrote:
On Dec 22, 1:05 pm, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:27:08 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, JR North quickly quoth: Phooey. My '79 diesel Rabbit gets 50 mpg+ just bopping around town. How do you feel about the engine, besides it being a VubDub and the noisiest futher mucker in the known world? Cost to maintain? Ease of maintenance? -- Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS i get 50 around town 60+ in the highway in a semi new VubDub Its no worse than a honda with a fartcan exhaust it IS as loud as a V8 gas like the ford 4 liter but still its not the end of the world to make a reasonably sized efficient vehicle that still feels and drives like a car. Maintenance isnt terrible either, Cost is a bit higher granted but between stuff done at home and the engne block being rock solid its not a biggie From one of the VW forums, the skinny on the VW diesel engine is that it was designed as an industrial powersource, with an expected lifespan of 50 000 hours running until it would require a rebuild. Solid stuff! I have a '90 Jetta with a 1.6 Turbo D in it. Just rolled 400 thousand KMs on it, and had to rebuild a head off a 600 thousand KM's parts car for it, because I cracked the original, changing out the glow plugs. It's not running great and need some new nozzles, so I am getting around 40 MPG highway. It will do better with new nozzles. Cheers Trevor Jones |
#19
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Banning incandescent lamps?
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 01:34:57 -0600, Richard J Kinch wrote: EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps. I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/ ~c110KLWOHv:e261985: -- snip -- I've never had a compact florescent light last me more than two years, and they often fail within six months. Given the amount of stuff in one of those, which implies a lot of energy expenditure to manufacture, I question the notion that you'll really save anything over the life cycle of the bulb by using incandescents. (and, compact florescent lights use mercury, and become a hazardous waste issue the instant they enter your door -- assuming free manufacture, I'll trade off the inefficiency of an incandescent light for it's safety any day). Didn't you get the memo? That's a secret! G We are not supposed to notice that until it's too late to go back. Then we will need a new government program to deal with the waste (Hg), and another to deal with the waste ($$) from that agency, and another to deal with the eventual discovery that the first one didn't do its job, etc. I don't want to breathe CO or eat Hg any more than the next guy, but would somebody please read the tenth amendment to those clowns on the hill? End of rant. Bill |
#20
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Dec 22, 2:36 pm, Trevor Jones wrote:
Brent wrote: On Dec 22, 1:05 pm, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:27:08 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, JR North quickly quoth: Phooey. My '79 diesel Rabbit gets 50 mpg+ just bopping around town. How do you feel about the engine, besides it being a VubDub and the noisiest futher mucker in the known world? Cost to maintain? Ease of maintenance? -- Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS i get 50 around town 60+ in the highway in a semi new VubDub Its no worse than a honda with a fartcan exhaust it IS as loud as a V8 gas like the ford 4 liter but still its not the end of the world to make a reasonably sized efficient vehicle that still feels and drives like a car. Maintenance isnt terrible either, Cost is a bit higher granted but between stuff done at home and the engne block being rock solid its not a biggie From one of the VW forums, the skinny on the VW diesel engine is that it was designed as an industrial powersource, with an expected lifespan of 50 000 hours running until it would require a rebuild. Solid stuff! I have a '90 Jetta with a 1.6 Turbo D in it. Just rolled 400 thousand KMs on it, and had to rebuild a head off a 600 thousand KM's parts car for it, because I cracked the original, changing out the glow plugs. It's not running great and need some new nozzles, so I am getting around 40 MPG highway. It will do better with new nozzles. Cheers Trevor Jones My timing belt is supposed to be changed every 100 000 and it might have been missed the first time because it looks like it stretched ever so slightly as to give a fuel mileage hit that cleaned out after i replaced it. My only issue with VW is there are a lot of oil lines in my 1.9 TDI that drip occasionally and I need a shoehorn to fit my oil filter in the the enclosure where tis supposed to be. but for the time it would take me to deal with them all and the downtime i need to sort them all out i've just been keeping a spare litre in the car and adding it at some point between oil changes I have far and away the highest mileage vehicle out of my entire family at 278 000 km now and i've never had anything i could call an "engine" issue I've needed to do work on the suspension a few times now and there is something unhappy int he glow plug system that a block heater has been compensating for. Basically the only reason i have any problems with the VW is because i cant take it off the road for a week to deal with all the itty bitty issues or with the issues that are coming due (Rear struts and 4 wheels worth of brakes will be due in the spring) At least here in canada we are a lot more Diesel friendly despite the winters. Brent Ottawa Canada |
#21
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Banning incandescent lamps?
RAM³ wrote:
nick hull wrote in : In article , Richard J Kinch wrote: Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! It's no problem getting 35mpg, the problem is affording it Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ I had a 1962 MG Midget - fancy version of the Mk. II A-H Sprite - that gave me 33 MPG City, 55 MPG Highway. If this could be done 45 years ago then why can't it be done today? BTW, for one car that's slated to hit the market about a year from now that'll (supposedly) get over 180 MPG, go to http://www/loremo.com. Too bad the SafetyNazis will prevent US sales. Good man, i've still got my Mk1 sprite which I have had since 1984 and it did return really good mileage when driven sensibly, still good when driven like a lunatic. From the detail though that's a 948cc engine and unladen weight of 660kg (1452 lbs), given that spec any modern vehicle should be able to beat the mpg easily by a vast margin. It seems to me that while modern vehicles are getting safer and the structure lighter the vehicles are getting heavier. Too many power electric accessories?. Renault introduced a 6k euro car idea for emerging markets a few years ago and IIRC later reduced it to 5k euro. Basic car, no thrills, simple to maintain, one body style, really took off from what I read and many were imported into europe by people wanting simple transport without the bloat. |
#22
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:33:59 -0800 (PST), Don Stauffer in Minnesota
wrote: On Dec 22, 1:34 am, Richard J Kinch wrote: Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! Really? I have a 9 year old car that is the best performing car I've ever owned, but it gets 39 mpg on highway and 32-33 mpg in town. I can't buy one with comparable milage today from the same company. They say it is impossible. Have those laws of phyics changed since they built my car? No, the legislaters have just mandated about 800 lbs more "nanny" features on the car. Hauling all that dead weight takes fuel. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#23
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:22:52 GMT, "BillM"
wrote: Got sucked into the whole compact flourescent whirlpool a few years ago. Local power company (Portland General Electric) was handing out coupons for free/deep discount/rebate on compact flourescents, and we were lighting up a new home. I think there are maybe 4 left in the whole house. Short life, unacceptable warm up time, just general crappy performance. Unless there has been a huge improvement in the CF technology, I'll keep my incandescents! Likewise. All you can buy is cheap but overpriced Chinese CRAP that burns out or otherwise fails in less than 2 years - generally within 6 months. I still have a few incandescent bulbs in the house that were here when I bought it 27 years ago. Todays long tube flourescents are also nothing but crap. Untill I changed out to halogens in my office/rec room I was replacing tubes every couple of months, and ballasts every year or so. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#24
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Banning incandescent lamps?
RAM³ wrote:
I had a 1962 MG Midget - fancy version of the Mk. II A-H Sprite - that gave me 33 MPG City, 55 MPG Highway. If this could be done 45 years ago then why can't it be done today? BTW, for one car that's slated to hit the market about a year from now that'll (supposedly) get over 180 MPG, go to http://www/loremo.com. My 1976 Vega with stick shift got 40+ MPG on the highway, with the A/C running. I always wondered if they made a mistake and put in an auto trans axle ratio. I used to joke it had "4 speeds, that's 3rd, 4th, half-grumble and full-grumble". It was a little difficult to drive, a very touchy clutch that wore out at 18,000 miles. I put a 12" clutch in it, and then it was nearly impossible to drive. I had to invent a whole new clutch technique that I called the "inertial dump mode". You revved the engine and then engaged the clutch until you got rolling, then removed your foot from the gas and let is stall - completely. While this happened, the clutch could be locked up and the car's momentum jump-started it. If you tried to feather the clutch in, it would start massive clutch chatter until the front bumper struck the pavement! I'm not kidding, but my wife proved that a Vega can actually do a "wheelie"! My 1989 Toyota Corolla wagon with 5-speed will do over 40 on the highway under the best conditions, and does 32+ MPG in mixed driving. Niether of these are extremely light vehicles, or highly aerodynamic. And, they both are straight Otto-cycle engines, with all the pumping losses that entails. The problem with the Prius and other hybrids is the engine is WAY too big, and the batteries and motor/drives are way too small. The highly aerodynamic Prius ought to be able to cruise on the highway with under 10 Hp applied, mostly for wind resistance. Why the HELL they need an 80+ Hp engine in that thing must be beacuse Toyota has a big plant that makes 80+ Hp 4-cyl engines! Otherwise, that sized engine is totally ludicrous. Properly sizing the engine, and maybe going to a stratified-charge or Diesel cycle, should allow a nearly stock Prius to get 80 + MPG. Jon |
#25
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Banning incandescent lamps?
Tim Wescott wrote:
I've never had a compact florescent light last me more than two years, and they often fail within six months. Given the amount of stuff in one of those, which implies a lot of energy expenditure to manufacture, I question the notion that you'll really save anything over the life cycle of the bulb by using incandescents. I have found out a few things. One, don't use electronic ballasts in the bathroom, the steam kills the 400 V electronics. Newer ones seem to be tougher in this regard. My entire shop is lit with either tube or compact fluorescents, some have lasted 5+ years. Again, the magnetic ballast ones seem to last to complete lamp burnout, the ring ones can usually be relamped cheaply and continue in use. The electronic ballasts seem to pop before lamp burnout in most cases, I'm still watching this issue. I think maybe the electronic ballasts went through a bad time about 2002-2005 or so, when they had very short life. As I marked the date on them, I could bring them back to the local hardware store for a free exchange if less than 6 months old or so. I always write the date of installation on the base of a CF so I know how much life I'm getting out of them. Incandescents have a really short life, in many cases a month or two. If you have to replace an incandescent bulb 12 times over 2 years, the cheap CF's start looking good even forgetting the energy saving. Jon |
#26
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Banning incandescent lamps?
BillM wrote:
Got sucked into the whole compact flourescent whirlpool a few years ago. Local power company (Portland General Electric) was handing out coupons for free/deep discount/rebate on compact flourescents, and we were lighting up a new home. I think there are maybe 4 left in the whole house. Short life, unacceptable warm up time, just general crappy performance. Unless there has been a huge improvement in the CF technology, I'll keep my incandescents! They ARE getting better. Get a couple electronic and a couple magnetic (usually in the ones with ring tubes) and mark the date of installation. These things are going under $5.00 now. I usually use the largest sizes, 26 - 32 W, and I know the eqivalent lumens compared to XX W incandescent is a fabrication on the order of the old air compressor and shop vac ratings wars. The electronic ballast ones switch on in milliseconds, and I put the magnetic ones in places where I have instant light from electronic CF's or rapid-start tubes, and the slow start of the magnetic ballast CF is not a problem as they add aditional light. Jon |
#27
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Banning incandescent lamps?
Brent wrote:
On Dec 22, 2:36 pm, Trevor Jones wrote: Brent wrote: On Dec 22, 1:05 pm, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:27:08 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, JR North quickly quoth: Phooey. My '79 diesel Rabbit gets 50 mpg+ just bopping around town. How do you feel about the engine, besides it being a VubDub and the noisiest futher mucker in the known world? Cost to maintain? Ease of maintenance? -- Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS i get 50 around town 60+ in the highway in a semi new VubDub Its no worse than a honda with a fartcan exhaust it IS as loud as a V8 gas like the ford 4 liter but still its not the end of the world to make a reasonably sized efficient vehicle that still feels and drives like a car. Maintenance isnt terrible either, Cost is a bit higher granted but between stuff done at home and the engne block being rock solid its not a biggie From one of the VW forums, the skinny on the VW diesel engine is that it was designed as an industrial powersource, with an expected lifespan of 50 000 hours running until it would require a rebuild. Solid stuff! I have a '90 Jetta with a 1.6 Turbo D in it. Just rolled 400 thousand KMs on it, and had to rebuild a head off a 600 thousand KM's parts car for it, because I cracked the original, changing out the glow plugs. It's not running great and need some new nozzles, so I am getting around 40 MPG highway. It will do better with new nozzles. Cheers Trevor Jones My timing belt is supposed to be changed every 100 000 and it might have been missed the first time because it looks like it stretched ever so slightly as to give a fuel mileage hit that cleaned out after i replaced it. My only issue with VW is there are a lot of oil lines in my 1.9 TDI that drip occasionally and I need a shoehorn to fit my oil filter in the the enclosure where tis supposed to be. but for the time it would take me to deal with them all and the downtime i need to sort them all out i've just been keeping a spare litre in the car and adding it at some point between oil changes I have far and away the highest mileage vehicle out of my entire family at 278 000 km now and i've never had anything i could call an "engine" issue I've needed to do work on the suspension a few times now and there is something unhappy int he glow plug system that a block heater has been compensating for. Basically the only reason i have any problems with the VW is because i cant take it off the road for a week to deal with all the itty bitty issues or with the issues that are coming due (Rear struts and 4 wheels worth of brakes will be due in the spring) At least here in canada we are a lot more Diesel friendly despite the winters. Brent Ottawa Canada Yeah. The VW's get pretty poor results in the car ratings, as you would have to pay a dealer a PILE of money over time to fix a bunch of little issues. If you can live without the car being "new" for the entire life of it, you can do an awful lot of stuff yourself. Depends on your situation, very much. I have the Jetta, a spare parts Jetta, and a GM 4x4 with a 6.5 in it. Gettin' WAY to familiar with the diesel engine and it's needs. :-) Cheers Trevor Jones Merry Christmas, all! |
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:59:46 -0800 (PST), with neither quill nor
qualm, Brent quickly quoth: On Dec 22, 1:22 pm, "BillM" wrote: Got sucked into the whole compact flourescent whirlpool a few years ago. Local power company (Portland General Electric) was handing out coupons for free/deep discount/rebate on compact flourescents, and we were lighting up a new home. I think there are maybe 4 left in the whole house. Short life, unacceptable warm up time, just general crappy performance. Unless there has been a huge improvement in the CF technology, I'll keep my incandescents! My biggest issue with CF's is the colour temperature can vary wildly from painful blue to a fine warm yellowish red. I dislike incans due to their yellow look, so the blue is beauty to my eyes. I have CFs in all the longer-used sections of my house and love them. While some tubes last eons, many have gone dead far too soon, quicker than incans. Feit Electric stands behind them and they've sent 4 replacements so far, on their nickel. Warmup time isn't critical in most places, but one lights faster than the other in the bath, so there is nearly instantaneous light in there, then it gets REALLY bright on 200 watts worth. That's 46w total. I love 'em. I'm positive that there will be exceptions for industrial use like stage lighting or as heating. even quartz halogen could be called incandescent. there IS logic behind getting rid of some cases of them. It is stupid to use a heater as a light source. It makes sense to use a heater that gives of excess light as a heat and light source however. Amen. As many have said a blanket ban is stupid but there are good reasons to replace them in many cases Agreed. A little sense in cutting use will help greatly Since they're guaranteed so well and have been on sale for $0.99 for eons now, what's to lose by swapping out? CF and LED should replace the ugly old yellow bulbs just as soon as the prices get reasonable. In CFs, that time is already here. -- Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit. --e e cummings |
#29
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Banning incandescent lamps?
This is the German Rabbit with the 1500 engine. Much smoother and
quieter than the 1600 in the US cars. JR Dweller in the cellar Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:27:08 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, JR North quickly quoth: Phooey. My '79 diesel Rabbit gets 50 mpg+ just bopping around town. How do you feel about the engine, besides it being a VubDub and the noisiest futher mucker in the known world? Cost to maintain? Ease of maintenance? -- Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses -------------------------------------------------------------- Dependence is Vulnerability: -------------------------------------------------------------- "Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal" "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.." |
#30
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Banning incandescent lamps?
"Trevor Jones" wrote in message news:rHdbj.30966$UZ4.5900@edtnps89... From one of the VW forums, the skinny on the VW diesel engine is that it was designed as an industrial powersource, with an expected lifespan of 50 000 hours running until it would require a rebuild. Solid stuff! Are you sure? 50000 hrs is a longggg time. Are you refering to the TDI or the older Rabbit diesel (which was a converted gas engine. Really)? -Carl |
#31
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Banning incandescent lamps?
Carl Byrns wrote:
"Trevor Jones" wrote in message news:rHdbj.30966$UZ4.5900@edtnps89... From one of the VW forums, the skinny on the VW diesel engine is that it was designed as an industrial powersource, with an expected lifespan of 50 000 hours running until it would require a rebuild. Solid stuff! Are you sure? 50000 hrs is a longggg time. Are you refering to the TDI or the older Rabbit diesel (which was a converted gas engine. Really)? -Carl The 1.6, and by default, the 1.9 IDI engines. Not sure how the 1.5's fit in the family tree. Fifty thousand hours/ half million KMs at highway speeds. That does not account for the wear items, like timing belts, IP's, nozzles and the like. Pretty solid little engines! They don't fare well on paper, as the horsepower numbers don't draw the ooohs and aaahs like some of the gas engines, but they sure pull. I think my Turbo Deisel is rated 65 HP on it's books. Really don't know why the diesels have not made as much of a penetration into the US markets as they have in the rest of the world. Cheers Trevor Jones |
#32
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Banning incandescent lamps?
let me point out, for the benefit of truth, at least, that 35 mpg is no big
deal - your VW bug did better than that, my 56 porsche averaged 45 mpg (city), so it is absolutely not the case that you need to change any laws of physics to meet this requirement. Now, as a matter of policy, I think it's better to raise the price of gas by a stiff tax and let folks decide for themselves how efficient they want their cars to be, but policy is different from physics. "Richard J Kinch" wrote in message . .. EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps. ------------snip -------------- Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#33
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Banning incandescent lamps?
I have a '79 also. I think the older diesel Rabbits got the reputation for
noise because the RH motor mount doesn't last long, and when it fails lots of vibration is transmitted to the body. Mine needs changing again, and it isn't easy. I also have an Isuzu turbodiesel pickup. 35mpg in town, on the road, full, empty, pulling a trailer, whatever. I picked it up a few years ago for less than $1,000. Folks wanted big pickups and SUVs, not small trucks then. Even our Mercedes diesel sedan gets 35mpg on the road. There is no reason the vast majority of vehicles on the road couldn't meet or beat 35MPG. Biodiesel is easier and cheaper to make than ethanol, too. For those of you who drive the thirsty gassers, and think it should be your birthright, remember how much of your money goes each month to support madrassas around the world. You are making a conscious choice to support radical Islam. You do have a choice. "JR North" wrote in message .. . This is the German Rabbit with the 1500 engine. Much smoother and quieter than the 1600 in the US cars. JR Dweller in the cellar Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:27:08 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, JR North quickly quoth: Phooey. My '79 diesel Rabbit gets 50 mpg+ just bopping around town. How do you feel about the engine, besides it being a VubDub and the noisiest futher mucker in the known world? Cost to maintain? Ease of maintenance? -- Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses -------------------------------------------------------------- Dependence is Vulnerability: -------------------------------------------------------------- "Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal" "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.." |
#34
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Banning incandescent lamps?
Trevor Jones wrote:
Really don't know why the diesels have not made as much of a penetration into the US markets as they have in the rest of the world. Particulants. |
#35
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Banning incandescent lamps?
In article Kxgbj.10668$wy2.9590@edtnps90, Trevor Jones wrote:
Carl Byrns wrote: Are you sure? 50000 hrs is a longggg time. Fifty thousand hours/ half million KMs at highway speeds. 10kph isn't exactly highway speed. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#36
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Dec 22, 4:52 pm, Trevor Jones wrote:
Brent wrote: On Dec 22, 2:36 pm, Trevor Jones wrote: Brent wrote: On Dec 22, 1:05 pm, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:27:08 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, JR North quickly quoth: Phooey. My '79 diesel Rabbit gets 50 mpg+ just bopping around town. How do you feel about the engine, besides it being a VubDub and the noisiest futher mucker in the known world? Cost to maintain? Ease of maintenance? -- Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS i get 50 around town 60+ in the highway in a semi new VubDub Its no worse than a honda with a fartcan exhaust it IS as loud as a V8 gas like the ford 4 liter but still its not the end of the world to make a reasonably sized efficient vehicle that still feels and drives like a car. Maintenance isnt terrible either, Cost is a bit higher granted but between stuff done at home and the engne block being rock solid its not a biggie From one of the VW forums, the skinny on the VW diesel engine is that it was designed as an industrial powersource, with an expected lifespan of 50 000 hours running until it would require a rebuild. Solid stuff! I have a '90 Jetta with a 1.6 Turbo D in it. Just rolled 400 thousand KMs on it, and had to rebuild a head off a 600 thousand KM's parts car for it, because I cracked the original, changing out the glow plugs. It's not running great and need some new nozzles, so I am getting around 40 MPG highway. It will do better with new nozzles. Cheers Trevor Jones My timing belt is supposed to be changed every 100 000 and it might have been missed the first time because it looks like it stretched ever so slightly as to give a fuel mileage hit that cleaned out after i replaced it. My only issue with VW is there are a lot of oil lines in my 1.9 TDI that drip occasionally and I need a shoehorn to fit my oil filter in the the enclosure where tis supposed to be. but for the time it would take me to deal with them all and the downtime i need to sort them all out i've just been keeping a spare litre in the car and adding it at some point between oil changes I have far and away the highest mileage vehicle out of my entire family at 278 000 km now and i've never had anything i could call an "engine" issue I've needed to do work on the suspension a few times now and there is something unhappy int he glow plug system that a block heater has been compensating for. Basically the only reason i have any problems with the VW is because i cant take it off the road for a week to deal with all the itty bitty issues or with the issues that are coming due (Rear struts and 4 wheels worth of brakes will be due in the spring) At least here in canada we are a lot more Diesel friendly despite the winters. Brent Ottawa Canada Yeah. The VW's get pretty poor results in the car ratings, as you would have to pay a dealer a PILE of money over time to fix a bunch of little issues. If you can live without the car being "new" for the entire life of it, you can do an awful lot of stuff yourself. Depends on your situation, very much. I have the Jetta, a spare parts Jetta, and a GM 4x4 with a 6.5 in it. Gettin' WAY to familiar with the diesel engine and it's needs. :-) Cheers Trevor Jones Merry Christmas, all! The Heart of my car i have no complaints with. Reliable engine Cozy on the Keester but i do have to learn some german curses for when i do stuff like change the oil filter (Poorly engineered placement) and when its a fit or finish issue i have to curse in spanish (Mexican made) I'm just waiting for someone to help nudge some kind of bacteria to eat food waste and compost and poop out combustible plant oil, that will sink a HUGE chunk of the Gas market when diesel fuel suddenly becomes easily renewable from waste But the best investment i made was the bentley book for my car. I look at soem jobs and i usually say, OK or i say Ok i need a shop tool but occasionally i see a job that needs more specialist tools than you can shake a stick at and i see that job and i say, nope forget it thats a shop job. I took the car in to change the front wheel bearing because i dont have presses or pullers and there was a PILE of special VAG tools and fixtures involved in the job. It looked like it MIGHT have been doable but i would need to have seen it done once first before i tried tackling it alone. For me the car is easily maintainable in most cases but the secret is KNOWING WHEN TO NOT TRY IT MYSELF =) there are limits to the driveway job |
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:41:42 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Wes
quickly quoth: Trevor Jones wrote: Really don't know why the diesels have not made as much of a penetration into the US markets as they have in the rest of the world. Particulants. Are those ants which eat the particulates, Wes? gd&r -- Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit. --e e cummings |
#38
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Banning incandescent lamps?
clare wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:22:52 GMT, "BillM" wrote: Got sucked into the whole compact flourescent whirlpool a few years ago. Local power company (Portland General Electric) was handing out coupons for free/deep discount/rebate on compact flourescents, and we were lighting up a new home. I think there are maybe 4 left in the whole house. Short life, unacceptable warm up time, just general crappy performance. Unless there has been a huge improvement in the CF technology, I'll keep my incandescents! Likewise. All you can buy is cheap but overpriced Chinese CRAP that burns out or otherwise fails in less than 2 years - generally within 6 months. I still have a few incandescent bulbs in the house that were here when I bought it 27 years ago. Todays long tube flourescents are also nothing but crap. Untill I changed out to halogens in my office/rec room I was replacing tubes every couple of months, and ballasts every year or so. get commercial grade flourescent bulbs from an electrical or lighting supply place. Anything at home depot is junk. You will pay more, but those cheap crap bulbs don't work. |
#39
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Banning incandescent lamps?
On Dec 22, 7:41 pm, Wes wrote:
Trevor Jones wrote: Really don't know why the diesels have not made as much of a penetration into the US markets as they have in the rest of the world. Particulants. SO do vacuums and Laser printers. A little Soot wont kill you. I'd love to see the "Particulate" count form a diesel exhaust compared to a cigarette for example. |
#40
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Banning incandescent lamps?
I suppose they will pay 100% cost for new light fixtures and new designs
for fluorescents of all sizes and wattages. I think this is a prime point of "loony tune" congress and the various paid lobbyist that write these bills for the illiterates in congress. They can't ban incandescent lamps - just the household lamps. Oh they can do anything being controlled by the Demos and Libs and Commie. But logical and physical constraints prevent it. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ Richard J Kinch wrote: EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps. I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...LWOHv:e261985: What, are we gonna have lightbulb police? Apparently the left-hand thread is an exemption. Are we gonna see a boom in right-to-left-hand-thread lamp base adapters? Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in the laws of physics! |
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