On 2007-12-22, RAM³ wrote:

[ ... ]

I had a 1962 MG Midget - fancy version of the Mk. II A-H Sprite - that gave
me 33 MPG City, 55 MPG Highway.

If this could be done 45 years ago then why can't it be done today?

Quite simple -- the additional weight mandated by the safety
requirements.

I remember when there was one small UK car -- I think that it
was the MGB for a certain year or two -- where the requirements caused
it to need three windshield wiper blades. The requirement was that a
certain number of square inches of windshield *must* be cleaned by the
wipers -- and the whole windshield did not have that many square inches.
So -- the solution was a third windshield wiper whose coverage
overlapped the other two -- but the sum of the wiped areas of the three
was sufficient to get it past the requirements. :-)

With things as idiotic as this -- how can people make cars light
and small enough to be energy efficient?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 23 Dec 2007 04:53:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


With things as idiotic as this -- how can people make cars light
and small enough to be energy efficient?

'
Or survivable.

Gunner

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:27:08 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

Phooey. My '79 diesel Rabbit gets 50 mpg+ just bopping around town.

How do you feel about the engine, besides it being a VubDub and the
noisiest futher mucker in the known world? Cost to maintain? Ease of
maintenance?

My diesel rabbit engine is still good but the body is falling apart

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

In article Kxgbj.10668$wy2.9590@edtnps90,
Trevor Jones wrote:

Really don't know why the diesels have not made as much of a
penetration into the US markets as they have in the rest of the world.

Because diesel is TAXED so much more than gasoline

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

Wes wrote:
Trevor Jones wrote:


Really don't know why the diesels have not made as much of a
penetration into the US markets as they have in the rest of the world.


Particulants.

Doesn't wash! Unless it is all about the fuel.

The same motors are as common or more so in places where the standards
are higher.

I have seen some mention of the fuel of choice over in the US, being a
particularly nasty grade of high sulphur diesel.

A poorly tuned engine is poorly tuned, whether diesel or gas.

Apparently much ado about the removal of sulphur from the fuel relates
to the use of engine (and more to the point, injector pump) technology
that the rest of the world left behind 20 odd years ago. Too many
truckers with low tech pums on their engines, not wanting to face the
cost of a new IP.

I see the odd mention now about how the low sulphur diesel "will drive
the price up and make it unaffordable" , but I think it is pretty much
scaremongering by folk that have run out of reasonable arguments.

Not being on the scene, I cannot profess to know the full story, but I
pick up bits here and there. Could be wrong, too.:-)

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Doug Miller wrote:

In article Kxgbj.10668$wy2.9590@edtnps90, Trevor Jones wrote:

Carl Byrns wrote:

Are you sure? 50000 hrs is a longggg time.

Fifty thousand hours/ half million KMs at highway speeds.


10kph isn't exactly highway speed.

Yeah. I'm a math whiz! :-)

I'll see if I can find the cite. The math was mine. I am pretty
certain on the hours.

Cheers
Trevor Jones
(counts on fingers-lips move while doing)

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:17:06 -0600, nick hull wrote:
In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in
the laws of physics!

It's no problem getting 35mpg, the problem is affording it

More so, the problem is surviving a freeway-speed crash in something
capable of getting it.

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:33:59 -0800 (PST), Don Stauffer in Minnesota wrote:
On Dec 22, 1:34 am, Richard J Kinch wrote:


Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change in
the laws of physics!

Really? I have a 9 year old car that is the best performing car I've
ever owned, but it gets 39 mpg on highway and 32-33 mpg in town. I
can't buy one with comparable milage today from the same company.
They say it is impossible. Have those laws of phyics changed since
they built my car?

Ahhhh, after reading a handful of posts like yours, I see the problem.
The legislators aren't talking about a few models, they're talking about
the outright average of _all_ of them. Yes, you can get 35 MPG out of a
carefully engineered small car. But, you can't get it out of a pickup
truck suitable for construction or farm work. So if you can get that up
to 25, then the econo-car has to make up the difference. It's not just
about family cars, it's about _everything_ averaging 35. As usual, it's
a case of congress thinking that they can make something just magically
happen just by passing a law saying so. Physics and engineering just
don't work that way. So, a few years into it, an exemption will be
passed, nullifying the law. In the mean time the idiot congresscritters
who crow about "look about what we did!" get political mileage out of
it, while accomplishing and changing nothing.

Dave Hinz wrote:

Ahhhh, after reading a handful of posts like yours, I see the problem.
The legislators aren't talking about a few models, they're talking about
the outright average of _all_ of them. Yes, you can get 35 MPG out of a
carefully engineered small car. But, you can't get it out of a pickup
truck suitable for construction or farm work. So if you can get that up
to 25, then the econo-car has to make up the difference. It's not just
about family cars, it's about _everything_ averaging 35.

The CAFE standards are different for passenger cars and trucks.

Trucks and vans have much lower MPG targets.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview.htm


Kevin Gallimore

I like CF's. In my experience however you need to avoid Lights of America
brand completely. All of those that I had purchased failed while all of the
regular brands work really well.

Some times there is a warm up period, where the full illumination does not
kick in right away but I get light on demand and the last 30% might take a
few minutes but this is no big deal.

I think the only incandescent I have left is the one in the fridge.

With that said, I do not support the proposed ban on light bulbs.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.
"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
BillM wrote:
Got sucked into the whole compact flourescent whirlpool a
few years ago. Local
power company (Portland General Electric) was handing out
coupons for free/deep
discount/rebate on compact flourescents, and we were
lighting up a new home.
I think there are maybe 4 left in the whole house. Short
life, unacceptable warm up time,
just general crappy performance. Unless there has been a
huge improvement in
the CF technology, I'll keep my incandescents!


They ARE getting better. Get a couple electronic and a couple
magnetic (usually in the ones with ring tubes) and mark the date
of installation. These things are going under $5.00 now. I
usually use the largest sizes, 26 - 32 W, and I know the
eqivalent lumens compared to XX W incandescent is a fabrication
on the order of the old air compressor and shop vac ratings
wars. The electronic ballast ones switch on in milliseconds,
and I put the magnetic ones in places where I have instant light
from electronic CF's or rapid-start tubes, and the slow start of
the magnetic ballast CF is not a problem as they add aditional
light.

Jon

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Trevor Jones wrote:

Really don't know why the diesels have not made as much of a
penetration into the US markets as they have in the rest of the world.

Particulants.

Right. Our particulate standards, accompanied by the fact that our diesel
fuel had a lot of sulfur in it until recent regulations, were the reasons
more of them weren't sold here. New automotive diesels and the newer fuel
standards should solve the problem.

--
Ed Huntress

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:17:06 -0600, nick hull wrote:
In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote:

Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change
in
the laws of physics!

It's no problem getting 35mpg, the problem is affording it

More so, the problem is surviving a freeway-speed crash in something
capable of getting it.

I'd take my chances in our eight-year old mid-size Mercedes diesel sedan
over your US truck-based SUV any day. 35mpg highway isn't a problem, and
the sedan is no lightweight. Plenty of power and no visible smoke. Now
explain to me again how US manufacturers can't do it.

Trevor Jones asked why diesel engines haven't taken off in the U.S. and
to this I say:
G.M. is the culprits here. They poisoned the well by selling ill
conceived designs in the 1980's (I.E.) the Olds/Chevy diesel built
around the 350C.I. gas engine. I had A Chevy Caprice Wagon (1982) with
one of these boat anchors in it and it was the happiest day of my life
when A con rod took A detour through the engine block!!
The small diesels in there Vega's and LUV pickup's were nothing to
write home about either.

H.R.

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:43:30 -0600, Dale Scroggins wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...

More so, the problem is surviving a freeway-speed crash in something
capable of getting it.

I'd take my chances in our eight-year old mid-size Mercedes diesel sedan
over your US truck-based SUV any day. 35mpg highway isn't a problem, and
the sedan is no lightweight. Plenty of power and no visible smoke. Now
explain to me again how US manufacturers can't do it.

You're missing the bigger point that this is for the _average_, not
individual vehicles.

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:19:54 -0800, Roger Shoaf wrote:
I like CF's. In my experience however you need to avoid Lights of America
brand completely. All of those that I had purchased failed while all of the
regular brands work really well.

Agreed about LOA.

I think the only incandescent I have left is the one in the fridge.

They're lousy in any cold location. So porch lights and garage lights,
not so good in Wisconsin.

With that said, I do not support the proposed ban on light bulbs.

I've bought a dozen or so each time they drop to .99 due to whatever
promotion, and swap them in as the other ones die. But, yes, the color
temperature isn't as consistent, and the warmup time is annoying.
Allegedly, though, I'm saving money.

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:43:30 -0600, Dale Scroggins
wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...

More so, the problem is surviving a freeway-speed crash in something
capable of getting it.

I'd take my chances in our eight-year old mid-size Mercedes diesel sedan
over your US truck-based SUV any day. 35mpg highway isn't a problem, and
the sedan is no lightweight. Plenty of power and no visible smoke. Now
explain to me again how US manufacturers can't do it.

You're missing the bigger point that this is for the _average_, not
individual vehicles.

I'm sorry. I thought you were saying it would be difficult to build a
crashworthy, safe car that would get 35mpg, so I pointed out that some
manufacturers had solved that problem ten years ago. I must have misread
your previous post, and missed the part about fleet averages and all that.

BillM wrote:
Got sucked into the whole compact flourescent whirlpool a
few years ago. Local
power company (Portland General Electric) was handing out
coupons for free/deep
discount/rebate on compact flourescents, and we were
lighting up a new home.
I think there are maybe 4 left in the whole house. Short
life, unacceptable warm up time,
just general crappy performance. Unless there has been a
huge improvement in
the CF technology, I'll keep my incandescents!


I got sucked into one of those promotions too. I have four things that
I don't like about CF's.

1. They say that a 27W CF (I think it was 27W but don't remember for
certain) gives the same amount of light as a 100W Incandescent.
Bull****! Maybe 60W. We replaced some 100W incandescents with CFs and
they just didn't give as much light.

2. My wife had one in a table lamp where she normally sits. Sometimes
while she is sitting there, she listens to a portable radio. As soon as
the CF lamp comes on the radio is useless because of all the static the
CF generates. This has happened with two different brands.

3. So far I have yet to find any replacements for 150W incandescents.

4. Can't use dimmers.


Wayne

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:57:33 -0500, Wes wrote:

Not only do we need term limits, we need limits on the size of each
congress critters staff. This wasn't written my our legislators, they
are too busy raising money for their next election.

I'm not sure that would be a good idea. It might be better to hold
congresscritters and their staffs to the standard of liability that civil
engineers must meet. I've often said that any law needs to be written
with the care of a computer program that will control a machine that can
kill people, because a government is just such a machine. For starters,
everyone in the legislative process needs an intensive course in the law
of unintended consequences. Two of my favorite cases: better car locks
led to the rise of violent carjacking, and the once-fashionable idea of
making prison sentences for armed robbery comperable to those for murder
removed the incentive for a robber to leave his victim alive.

I like the Flood lights for brightness and low cost.
However if you need to turn one on for a reason florescent bulbs are crap.
They have to heat up and come on line before turning bright. By then,
the intruder has stolen the truck or shot you dead.

In those light places I use real bulbs. In general lighting I use Florescent.

And how will these monster bulbs fit in our light fixtures ? Front porch ?
Drop lamp ? Oh - trash it for a new Chinese cheap Florescent...
Bathroom lights in the fan ? over the sink ? in the sitting table ?
In the 12 flower art glass and bronze lamp ? Christmas Tree ?


Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Dave Hinz wrote:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:19:54 -0800, Roger Shoaf wrote:
I like CF's. In my experience however you need to avoid Lights of America
brand completely. All of those that I had purchased failed while all of the
regular brands work really well.

Agreed about LOA.

I think the only incandescent I have left is the one in the fridge.

They're lousy in any cold location. So porch lights and garage lights,
not so good in Wisconsin.

With that said, I do not support the proposed ban on light bulbs.

I've bought a dozen or so each time they drop to .99 due to whatever
promotion, and swap them in as the other ones die. But, yes, the color
temperature isn't as consistent, and the warmup time is annoying.
Allegedly, though, I'm saving money.

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:36:46 -0800, NoOne N Particular
wrote:

1. They say that a 27W CF (I think it was 27W but don't remember for
certain) gives the same amount of light as a 100W Incandescent.
Bull****! Maybe 60W. We replaced some 100W incandescents with CFs and
they just didn't give as much light.

Might help to change to fixtures with a reflector, so the light goes
where you want it.

2. My wife had one in a table lamp where she normally sits. Sometimes
while she is sitting there, she listens to a portable radio. As soon as
the CF lamp comes on the radio is useless because of all the static the
CF generates. This has happened with two different brands.

3. So far I have yet to find any replacements for 150W incandescents.

They have 42W CFL's that claim to be a 150W equivalent - but if you
don't think a 27 = 100, then you might think the 42 = 100.

4. Can't use dimmers.

Not with the current crop - they had some CFL's that claimed to be
dimmable, but with the unfortunate side effect of catching on fire.
Not an admirable trait for home electronics...

If you really want to dim your fluorescents you can go with old-tech
F34T8 or F40T12 strip fixtures and commercially available dimming
ballasts. But you need a special dimmer and a second hot lead from
the dimmer to the fixture for the control voltage. And you have to
burn in new lamps for 100 hours at full brightness before dimming
them.

-- Bruce --

Larry Jaques wrote:


Are those ants which eat the particulates, Wes? gd&r


Okya, I didn't rnu the splel chekcer.

Wes

Dave Hinz wrote:

Ahhhh, after reading a handful of posts like yours, I see the problem.
The legislators aren't talking about a few models, they're talking about
the outright average of _all_ of them. Yes, you can get 35 MPG out of a
carefully engineered small car. But, you can't get it out of a pickup
truck suitable for construction or farm work.


The original CAFE standards did not include things like Suburbans which is
why the SUV craze started. Remember the days where a station wagon pulled a
boat or a camper? That died with CAFE.

Wes

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:36:46 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
NoOne N Particular quickly quoth:

BillM wrote:
Got sucked into the whole compact flourescent whirlpool a
few years ago. Local
power company (Portland General Electric) was handing out
coupons for free/deep
discount/rebate on compact flourescents, and we were
lighting up a new home.
I think there are maybe 4 left in the whole house. Short
life, unacceptable warm up time,
just general crappy performance. Unless there has been a
huge improvement in
the CF technology, I'll keep my incandescents!


I got sucked into one of those promotions too. I have four things that
I don't like about CF's.

1. They say that a 27W CF (I think it was 27W but don't remember for
certain) gives the same amount of light as a 100W Incandescent.
Bull****! Maybe 60W. We replaced some 100W incandescents with CFs and
they just didn't give as much light.

I use 2 23w CFs in my bathroom and it puts out -much- more light than
4 60w incans. These are not "warm white" CFs, which really mimic the
ugly yellow light of incans. I much prefer the more pure (bluish-)
white of the "cool white" bulbs.

2. My wife had one in a table lamp where she normally sits. Sometimes
while she is sitting there, she listens to a portable radio. As soon as
the CF lamp comes on the radio is useless because of all the static the
CF generates. This has happened with two different brands.

I have a CF bulb 6' above my FM antenna and notice no static whatever.
Is she listening to AM? If so, static serves her right. evil grinne
You might look into LED lamps for that position.


3. So far I have yet to find any replacements for 150W incandescents.

I've heard of them. Hmm...Amazon has them (42W sure beats 150!) for
$10 (Globe Elec.) or 3 for $43 (GE bulbs).
Search for "150 watt compact fluorescent" on Amazon or Google it.


4. Can't use dimmers.

Some are out now, but they're $40 a pop. I'll wait, but really want
some of the dimmables, too. Cheap Chiwanese jobs are on eBay already.
I may try some.

--
Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous
delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit.
--e e cummings

The only practical solution would be to manufacture all common, household
bulb-type lighting fixtures with a left-hand garden hose connector thread.

That will ultimately solve two problems.. ordinary lamp/fixture lamps will
have to be replaced with only the approved "kill the planet with polluting
manufacturing effects of making the CF lamps"..

and also put an end to the fuctup LL/RT saying "lefty-loosey.." (and you
know the rest).

The new expression would probably need to be something like Clockwise, it's
time to replace the defective CF lamp and where's the GD package that stated
that this thing was supposed to last for years.
Anti-Clockwise, to screw in the new planet killing (easy to remember.. as in
screw the planet) CF lamp that will only last about one year despite the
packaging claim of seven year life.

Mandated vehicle mileage:
BMW and the Hummer divisions to release new, stylish bicycle models.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
EISA 2007 is said to ban incandescent lamps.

I defy anyone to understand this law. See the lightbulb text he

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...LWOHv:e261985:

What, are we gonna have lightbulb police?

Apparently the left-hand thread is an exemption. Are we gonna see a boom
in right-to-left-hand-thread lamp base adapters?

Don't get me started on 35 mpg cars. The US government decrees a change
in
the laws of physics!

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:35:06 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:


Mandated vehicle mileage:
BMW and the Hummer divisions to release new, stylish bicycle models.

WB


Bigassed motorhome passed me Sunday, on my way home up north.

Painted on the back was:

"All this, and better mileage than a Hummer"

G

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:35:06 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

The only practical solution would be to manufacture all common, household
bulb-type lighting fixtures with a left-hand garden hose connector thread.

That will ultimately solve two problems.. ordinary lamp/fixture lamps will
have to be replaced with only the approved "kill the planet with polluting
manufacturing effects of making the CF lamps"..

and also put an end to the fuctup LL/RT saying "lefty-loosey.." (and you
know the rest).

The new expression would probably need to be something like Clockwise, it's
time to replace the defective CF lamp and where's the GD package that stated
that this thing was supposed to last for years.
Anti-Clockwise, to screw in the new planet killing (easy to remember.. as in
screw the planet) CF lamp that will only last about one year despite the
packaging claim of seven year life.

Of course we could adopt the English multitude of lamp bases, or so it
seemed last time I tried to change a bulb at senior son's home.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 18:55:28 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:35:06 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:


Mandated vehicle mileage:
BMW and the Hummer divisions to release new, stylish bicycle models.

WB


Bigassed motorhome passed me Sunday, on my way home up north.

Painted on the back was:

"All this, and better mileage than a Hummer"

Especially the Hummer I passed on the freeway night - damned thing
had to be a block long. SWMBO said "why?"
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:14:25 -0500, the renowned Gerald Miller
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 18:55:28 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:35:06 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:


Mandated vehicle mileage:
BMW and the Hummer divisions to release new, stylish bicycle models.

WB


Bigassed motorhome passed me Sunday, on my way home up north.

Painted on the back was:

"All this, and better mileage than a Hummer"

Especially the Hummer I passed on the freeway night - damned thing
had to be a block long. SWMBO said "why?"
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

SWMBO has a theory that involves (over)compensation for certain
physical "deficiencies"..


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:14:25 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gerald Miller quickly quoth:

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 18:55:28 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:35:06 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:


Mandated vehicle mileage:
BMW and the Hummer divisions to release new, stylish bicycle models.

WB


Bigassed motorhome passed me Sunday, on my way home up north.

Painted on the back was:

"All this, and better mileage than a Hummer"

Especially the Hummer I passed on the freeway night - damned thing
had to be a block long. SWMBO said "why?"

They're called "Limousines", Gerry. Rich folks rent them (Hummers in
all shapes) to pretend they're either 4-wheelin' or in the Army for
the day or evening.

Merry Christmas.

--
Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous
delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit.
--e e cummings

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:14:25 -0500, Gerald Miller
wrote:


Bigassed motorhome passed me Sunday, on my way home up north.

Painted on the back was:

"All this, and better mileage than a Hummer"

Especially the Hummer I passed on the freeway night - damned thing
had to be a block long. SWMBO said "why?"
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada


They (Hummers) are pretty popular here in So. California, for making
custom limos out of.

Limos are an intersting subject..they make half their contacts by
being unique in design. Seen em made from pickup trucks, Hummers,
Freightliners and so on and so forth.

http://www.big-limos.com/
http://used.big-limos.com/23/others/

http://used.big-limos.com/23/others/...te-land-yacht/

http://www.firstclasslimos.net/white...r-h2-limo.html



Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:29:10 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:14:25 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gerald Miller quickly quoth:

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 18:55:28 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:35:06 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:


Mandated vehicle mileage:
BMW and the Hummer divisions to release new, stylish bicycle models.

WB


Bigassed motorhome passed me Sunday, on my way home up north.

Painted on the back was:

"All this, and better mileage than a Hummer"

Especially the Hummer I passed on the freeway night - damned thing
had to be a block long. SWMBO said "why?"

They're called "Limousines", Gerry. Rich folks rent them (Hummers in
all shapes) to pretend they're either 4-wheelin' or in the Army for
the day or evening.

Merry Christmas.
And merry Christmas back to you. That vehicle looked to me like it
might be good for a mobile whore house - no tell tale rock in the
suspension!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

In article ,
"Wild_Bill" wrote:

The only practical solution would be to manufacture all common, household
bulb-type lighting fixtures with a left-hand garden hose connector thread.


Business opportunity; smuggle light bulbs

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

nick hull wrote:

Business opportunity; smuggle light bulbs

Or build adaptors?

Wes wrote:

nick hull wrote:

Business opportunity; smuggle light bulbs

Or build adaptors?


When they outlaw light bulbs, only outlaws will have light bulbs! ;-)

BTW, I have about a 10 year stockpile from relatives who already
switched.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

They're called "Limousines", Gerry. Rich folks rent them (Hummers in
all shapes) to pretend they're either 4-wheelin' or in the Army for
the day or evening.

My younger brother is in the Army, and despite the fact that he's stationed
in Alaska, a Hummer is the last vehicle he would choose to drive.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

BTW, I have about a 10 year stockpile from relatives who already
switched.

I've just about totally switched over myself. It didn't take a law. When
the numbers work out you do it. Government assumes we are too stupid to
think for ourselves on economic matters.

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

BTW, I have about a 10 year stockpile from relatives who already
switched.

I've just about totally switched over myself. It didn't take a law. When
the numbers work out you do it. Government assumes we are too stupid to
think for ourselves on economic matters.

Wes

Well, the government is right: most people are. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

In article , wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

BTW, I have about a 10 year stockpile from relatives who already
switched.

I've just about totally switched over myself. It didn't take a law. When
the numbers work out you do it.

Yep, same here. The cost of the bulbs is about a wash, actually: the extra
lifespan is pretty much in proportion to the extra cost. But the reduction in
energy consumption has dropped my monthly electricity bill by almost $20.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

BTW, I have about a 10 year stockpile from relatives who already
switched.

I've just about totally switched over myself. It didn't take a law. When
the numbers work out you do it. Government assumes we are too stupid to
think for ourselves on economic matters.

Wes

Well, the government is right: most people are. d8-)

Except the government is even stupider than most people

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:21:17 -0500, Wes wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

BTW, I have about a 10 year stockpile from relatives who already
switched.

I've just about totally switched over myself. It didn't take a law. When
the numbers work out you do it. Government assumes we are too stupid to
think for ourselves on economic matters.

Wes


I have _one_ room that isn't completely lit by CF bulbs. That's the lad's
bedroom with multiple 20W halogen spots in the ceiling. As they fail they will
be replaced with 1.5W LED units. I have dimmable CF bulbs in two of the
bedrooms. The only gotcha with them is that if the dimmer is too old, it might
struggle with the low load of the CF bulb. I have a box of 48 new incandescent
bulbs that I will be taking to the tip sometime next year. I'll save money by
throwing them away!

I can get CF bulbs in almost any power I want, at UK prices:-( :-

http://www.bltdirect.com/product.php?pid=266


Mark Rand (where electricity costs $20/kWhr)
RTFM