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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"kurgan" wrote in message ups.com... Greylock wrote: This is funny as hell. Bill Mahar is a riot. Opions vary. Personally I sorta think referring to American soldiers as "cowards" is way beyond the pale. That he wasn't taken off the air permanently is a travesty and a damned shame. Whoa. Let's get this straight. He didn't call American soldiers cowardly. He objected to the (stupid) remark by Dubya that the Qaedas who flew planes into the WTC were "cowards." Mahar was right. They weren't cowards. They were murders and nutbags, but not cowards. What he DID say, in response, is this: "We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly." That is exactly what he said and both he - and you - can kiss America's ass. He's right. Flying cruise missiles into a foreign country at no risk to ourselves, simultaneously puffing ourselves up for courage and moral certitude while calling suicide attacks "cowardly," is self-congratulation going over the top. Conservative commentator Dinesh D'Souza also objected to the characterization of the WTC attackers as cowards. Stupid is stupid, and self-congratulation is self-congratulation, no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on. Let's make it clear again: Mahar did NOT say American soldiers are cowards. He said the leaders who flew cruise missiles into the enemy are (relatively speaking, or absolutely, as you choose) cowards. And he included all of us in the indictment, because it's our government. That is exactly what he said and both he - and you - can kiss America's ass. All you have provided is his "after the fact" attempt to squirm out of the firestorm he created by his own arrogant assininity. Maher's right about the 9/11 perpetrators. They were actually brave. Misguided, but brave. He's also right about our leaders are cowards. Only 1 politician in Washington has a son or daughter serving in Iraq. They don't mind sending your sons over there, but they won't send their own. Don't let your ideology blind you to the truth. Or let it. I don't really care. thanks, K. Gringioni. Totally wrong. I posted it elsewhere in this thread too. Lets get this straight. What is cowardly was Saddam paying suicide bombers of low income families 10k for each mission! Using Military actions such as cruise missiles or what not is meant to minimize loss of our own people or assets and obtain an objective. Using innocent civilians in any deliberate attempt to cause fear is cowardly! Nick |
#42
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"kurgan" wrote in message ups.com... Greylock wrote: This is funny as hell. Bill Mahar is a riot. Opions vary. Personally I sorta think referring to American soldiers as "cowards" is way beyond the pale. That he wasn't taken off the air permanently is a travesty and a damned shame. Whoa. Let's get this straight. He didn't call American soldiers cowardly. He objected to the (stupid) remark by Dubya that the Qaedas who flew planes into the WTC were "cowards." Mahar was right. They weren't cowards. They were murders and nutbags, but not cowards. What he DID say, in response, is this: "We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly." That is exactly what he said and both he - and you - can kiss America's ass. He's right. Flying cruise missiles into a foreign country at no risk to ourselves, simultaneously puffing ourselves up for courage and moral certitude while calling suicide attacks "cowardly," is self-congratulation going over the top. Conservative commentator Dinesh D'Souza also objected to the characterization of the WTC attackers as cowards. Stupid is stupid, and self-congratulation is self-congratulation, no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on. Let's make it clear again: Mahar did NOT say American soldiers are cowards. He said the leaders who flew cruise missiles into the enemy are (relatively speaking, or absolutely, as you choose) cowards. And he included all of us in the indictment, because it's our government. That is exactly what he said and both he - and you - can kiss America's ass. All you have provided is his "after the fact" attempt to squirm out of the firestorm he created by his own arrogant assininity. Maher's right about the 9/11 perpetrators. They were actually brave. Misguided, but brave. I tend to think someone is "misguided" when they think it's OK to shoplift or park in a "no parking" zone. It's an awfully mild way to describe fanatical, mass-murdering fundamentalist terrorists. As for "brave," I tend to apply that to those who overcome fear and danger to do waht needs to be done, not those who were stupid enough to beleive that their mass-murdering of infidels would earn them a spot in paradise with 72 virgins, although their actions took some guts. As for Maher, his comedy is often spot-on political commentary masquarading as comedy, as is Jon Stewart's on the Daily Show. Bush bring out the best in both. No one can create material like that. He's also right about our leaders are cowards. Only 1 politician in Washington has a son or daughter serving in Iraq. They don't mind sending your sons over there, but they won't send their own. Many are veterans themselves, just not most of the NeoCons. Moreover, a parent cannot make a child enlist. I don't understand calls to "send" the Bush daughters to fight in Iraq, for example. Jeff |
#43
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
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#44
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
Jeff McCann wrote: Maher's right about the 9/11 perpetrators. They were actually brave. Misguided, but brave. I tend to think someone is "misguided" when they think it's OK to shoplift or park in a "no parking" zone. It's an awfully mild way to describe fanatical, mass-murdering fundamentalist terrorists. As for "brave," I tend to apply that to those who overcome fear and danger to do waht needs to be done, not those who were stupid enough to beleive that their mass-murdering of infidels would earn them a spot in paradise with 72 virgins, although their actions took some guts. It's a mild term, but it's accurate. I'd call Japanese kamikazee pilots the same thing. From an objective point of view, where one doesn't take sides, the American soldier jumping on a grenade to save his buddies is equally brave as the Japanese kamikazee giving his life for his country, or the Muslim suicide bomber, giving his life for his religion. It's all the same thing. We declare those actions to be moral or immoral depending upon whose side those guys are fighting for. If we had American Kamikazees going after Japanese aircraft carriers in WW2, we'd call them brave. So, ya, "misguided" is apropos. thanks, K. Gringioni. |
#45
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:51:08 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: Start with murdering 100,000++ in Iraq, You witnessed him killing them? Saddam or the neocons? Like asking to be shown those pesky "WMDs" ... Consider: So when the neocons claimed that they knew & had irrefutable proof and refused to tell any that asked? When they set up their plans to tell lies? Can you use this excuse to break into your neighbor's house, steal his things, murder him & his family, burn the house down, call all your other neighbors that would not help you "terrorists", and get off with huge prizes from the police? "Officer, someday he might have had a BB gun in his basement. If he ever got one he might have hurt someone's cat or invaded Antartica with it ." It's murder, pure & simple. Of about ~ 100,000 ++ ... "If any one bring an accusation of any crime before the elders, and does not prove what he has charged, he shall, if it be a capital offense charged, be put to death." - Third Law, The Code of Hammurabi written in about 1786 BC. In what is now (or was) Iraq. The Neocon Menace is worse by far than the Communist Menace ever was. http://www.lincoln-ma.com/news_archi...cebuilders.htm -- Cliff |
#46
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:51:08 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: lying to congress, About what WMD? I say it always what happened to all the WMD UNSCOM had found that went missing? Can you please repeat that in English? -- Cliff |
#47
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:51:08 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: shooting lawyers, One thing to bring up something that is very upsetting and unintentional, next most people would agree shoot all lawyers first lol jk. I agree very sad and to be honest I wish we all would be treated so humanely for things we are sorry for doing. Had you hit a pedestrian with your car .... and, it would seem to be even more serious if done while committing another crime (poaching) or drinking (guess what?) -- Cliff |
#48
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:06:12 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: What is cowardly was Saddam paying suicide bombers of low income families 10k for each mission! A good way to get rich quick, eh? 50 missions and set for life ... OTOH The neocons only pay about $250,000 .... though I gather that more is optional ... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6891515/ Beyond that, I think you lied. -- Cliff |
#49
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:06:12 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: Using innocent civilians in any deliberate attempt to cause fear is cowardly! http://www.notinourname.net/graphics/shock-awe.jpg http://tinyurl.com/kpw3g http://tinyurl.com/mrep8 HTH -- Cliff |
#50
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:56:47 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: Using Military actions such as cruise missiles or what not is meant to minimize loss of our own people or assets and obtain an objective. It's to boost the profits of the suppliers? -- Cliff |
#51
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:05:49 GMT, "Jeff McCann" wrote:
I tend to think someone is "misguided" when they think it's OK to shoplift or park in a "no parking" zone. It's an awfully mild way to describe fanatical, mass-murdering fundamentalist terrorists. The term "criminals" comes to mind. Not "war profiteers". -- Cliff |
#52
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:05:49 GMT, "Jeff McCann" wrote:
I don't understand calls to "send" the Bush daughters to fight in Iraq, for example. Might keep them off the party circuit .... you know how their father turned out .... -- Cliff |
#53
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On 24 Feb 2006 09:56:36 -0800, "Gus" wrote:
Mahar's strategy is to put the terrorists on a higher plane than our government for his own political purposes. Rubbish. Let's consider the numbers thus far ..... Probably about 2,000 Americans killed on 9-11 by criminals while Cheney had the North American Air Defense force (under his PERSONAL direction) off doing exercises in Greenland or Iceland (WHO told them to pick that one day?). Americans killed by the neocons attacking various nations thus far: 2,863 MINIMUM as of the lastest *official* numbers I found. -- Cliff |
#54
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,misc.survivalism,rec.crafts.metalworking
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:23:51 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:19:41 -0500, wrote: Cliff wrote: Found those"WMDs"yet? Probabably with the "oil for food money" Ransom is always a good idea, right? BTW, Most of the oil went outside the "oil for food money" program, by pipeline to allies like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan .... and from there no doubt to the likes of Exxon/Mobile. It had all been reported in detail to the UN security council, where the US had a veto .... Negative they were testing the oils from tankers if you remember and can tell what oil was from the embargoed Iraq. It certainly is nice to know that no illegal oil got exported .... Warms my heart it does. Turkey had already had a pipeline from Iraq going into their country and was allowed its oil. If you remember Iraq purposely set up their tripple A fire along this pipeline and it was once hit as collateral damage fuming Turkey. Much of these tactics from Iraq caused us to use concrete bombs instead of explosive ones that can cause more harm to people or assets as Iraq had purposely tried. Hence Iraq is mostly demolished. http://www.globalpolicy.org/images/p...q/fallujah.jpg -- Cliff |
#55
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"Cliff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:51:08 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony" wrote: Start with murdering 100,000++ in Iraq, You witnessed him killing them? Saddam or the neocons? Like asking to be shown those pesky "WMDs" ... Consider: So when the neocons claimed that they knew & had irrefutable proof and refused to tell any that asked? When they set up their plans to tell lies? Can you use this excuse to break into your neighbor's house, steal his things, murder him & his family, burn the house down, call all your other neighbors that would not help you "terrorists", and get off with huge prizes from the police? "Officer, someday he might have had a BB gun in his basement. If he ever got one he might have hurt someone's cat or invaded Antartica with it ." It's murder, pure & simple. Of about ~ 100,000 ++ ... "If any one bring an accusation of any crime before the elders, and does not prove what he has charged, he shall, if it be a capital offense charged, be put to death." - Third Law, The Code of Hammurabi written in about 1786 BC. In what is now (or was) Iraq. The Neocon Menace is worse by far than the Communist Menace ever was. http://www.lincoln-ma.com/news_archi...cebuilders.htm -- Cliff Happy hour already for you? You make no sense lol... |
#56
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"Cliff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:51:08 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony" wrote: lying to congress, About what WMD? I say it always what happened to all the WMD UNSCOM had found that went missing? Can you please repeat that in English? -- Cliff UNSCOM had accounted for numerous WMD in Iraq prior to getting kicked out in 98. Since that time no one knows what had happened to the existing stockpile they knew of, that is no longer to be found, It was never destroyed. and is out there somewere. Hans Blix also felt they just needed more time to find them. Our past three Presidents felt there was WMD in Iraq and needed to get Saddam out of power. |
#57
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"Cliff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:51:08 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony" wrote: shooting lawyers, One thing to bring up something that is very upsetting and unintentional, next most people would agree shoot all lawyers first lol jk. I agree very sad and to be honest I wish we all would be treated so humanely for things we are sorry for doing. Had you hit a pedestrian with your car .... and, it would seem to be even more serious if done while committing another crime (poaching) or drinking (guess what?) -- Cliff Ok now you are off the wall. Poaching? lol...I already said it is unfortunate that there is a double standard had anyone else made this mistake by saying I wish we all would be treated humanely for things we are sorry for doing. |
#58
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"Cliff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:06:12 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony" wrote: What is cowardly was Saddam paying suicide bombers of low income families 10k for each mission! A good way to get rich quick, eh? 50 missions and set for life ... OTOH The neocons only pay about $250,000 .... though I gather that more is optional ... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6891515/ Beyond that, I think you lied. -- Cliff Why do I bother I can tell you are trolling now. It was a known fact what Saddam was doing paying suicide bombers. And what is this about 250k? This is the SGLI look it up. We were always entitled to this. I am not getting this article cause everyone gets it, we had to pay into it. All they are talking about is adding another 150k to make it 400k so get your facts right and read your article Cliffy boy before you try to sound smart. I remember some young lady I knew killed herself state side, she 19 years old and her family was able to collect. Was very sad event. Also when my friend killed himself in Bosnia same thing. |
#59
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"kurgan" wrote in message ups.com... Nicholas Anthony wrote: Maher's right about the 9/11 perpetrators. They were actually brave. Misguided, but brave. He's also right about our leaders are cowards. Only 1 politician in Washington has a son or daughter serving in Iraq. They don't mind sending your sons over there, but they won't send their own. Don't let your ideology blind you to the truth. Or let it. I don't really care. thanks, K. Gringioni. Totally wrong. I posted it elsewhere in this thread too. Lets get this straight. What is cowardly was Saddam paying suicide bombers of low income families 10k for each mission! Using Military actions such as cruise missiles or what not is meant to minimize loss of our own people or assets and obtain an objective. Using innocent civilians in any deliberate attempt to cause fear is cowardly! Strawman. Maher was talking about the 9/11 perpetrators (they were Saudis and Egyptians), not Saddam. I gave you an example of a cowardly act that is why I mentioned Saddam it also sheds some more light on what an ass he was. Then I went into what BM said. |
#60
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"Cliff" wrote in message ... On 24 Feb 2006 09:56:36 -0800, "Gus" wrote: Mahar's strategy is to put the terrorists on a higher plane than our government for his own political purposes. Rubbish. Let's consider the numbers thus far ..... Probably about 2,000 Americans killed on 9-11 by criminals while Cheney had the North American Air Defense force (under his PERSONAL direction) off doing exercises in Greenland or Iceland (WHO told them to pick that one day?). Americans killed by the neocons attacking various nations thus far: 2,863 MINIMUM as of the lastest *official* numbers I found. -- Cliff You truly have no clue how it works. |
#61
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
Richard Lamb wrote:
Well, heard this one, Cliffy? I just got my new Chevy Blazer, and returned to the dealer the next day, complaining that I couldn't figure out how the radio worked. The salesman explained that the radio was voice activated. "Watch this!" he said, "Nelson! The radio replied, "Ricky or Willie?" "Willie!"...and On The Road Again came from the speakers. I drove away happy, and for the next few days, every time I'd say, Beethoven!" I'd get beautiful classical music, and if I said, "Beatles!" I'd get one of their awesome songs. One day, a couple ran a red light and nearly creamed my new car, but I swerved in time to avoid them. "Chicken**** Assholes!" I yelled. The French National Anthem began to play, sung by Jane Fonda and Michael Moore, backed up by John Kerry on guitar, Al Gore on drums and Bill Clinton on sax.... Man!, I LOVE this car! It was obviously defective. A Bush speech should have played! Dan |
#62
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
Cliff wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:01:40 +0000 (UTC), wrote: Anybody remember Pat Paulson? Quite well. He was one of the funniest political comedians ever. He was a comedian? That's P. Pat Paulson to you, buddy. Dan |
#63
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
Greylock wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:52:23 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Greylock" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:16:54 +0000 (UTC), wrote: This is funny as hell. Bill Mahar is a riot. Opions vary. Personally I sorta think referring to American soldiers as "cowards" is way beyond the pale. That he wasn't taken off the air permanently is a travesty and a damned shame. Whoa. Let's get this straight. He didn't call American soldiers cowardly. He objected to the (stupid) remark by Dubya that the Qaedas who flew planes into the WTC were "cowards." Mahar was right. They weren't cowards. They were murders and nutbags, but not cowards. What he DID say, in response, is this: "We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly." That is exactly what he said and both he - and you - can kiss America's ass. You, sir, are a stupid ass, so kiss yourself. He's right. Flying cruise missiles into a foreign country at no risk to ourselves, simultaneously puffing ourselves up for courage and moral certitude while calling suicide attacks "cowardly," is self-congratulation going over the top. Conservative commentator Dinesh D'Souza also objected to the characterization of the WTC attackers as cowards. Stupid is stupid, and self-congratulation is self-congratulation, no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on. Let's make it clear again: Mahar did NOT say American soldiers are cowards. He said the leaders who flew cruise missiles into the enemy are (relatively speaking, or absolutely, as you choose) cowards. And he included all of us in the indictment, because it's our government. That is exactly what he said and both he - and you - can kiss America's ass. All you have provided is his "after the fact" attempt to squirm out of the firestorm he created by his own arrogant assininity. No, he is pointing out that your reading ability is somewhere around the 3rd grade level. And he did it far more politely than most of the rest of us would have. Dan |
#64
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
Probably about 2,000 Americans killed on 9-11 by criminals
AS OF MOST RECENT DATABASE UPDATE, 08/08/2004 1:26:29 AM: CONFIRMED DEAD: 2948 REPORTED DEAD: 24 REPORTED MISSING: 24 TOTAL: 2996 Off by 33%, but don't let the details hang you up cliff. |
#65
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"Greybutt" wrote in message
... On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:52:23 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: Let's make it clear again: Mahar did NOT say American soldiers are cowards. He said the leaders who flew cruise missiles into the enemy are (relatively speaking, or absolutely, as you choose) cowards. And he included all of us in the indictment, because it's our government. That is exactly what he said and both he - and you - can kiss America's ass. Well, thanks, Graybutt, but I try to stay clear of your end of the country. Your hunters can't seem to tell the difference between a quail and a lawyer. All you have provided is his "after the fact" attempt to squirm out of the firestorm he created by his own arrogant assininity. What I provided is the truth, as an antidote to your feeble lie. Why don't you go shoot something, Graybutt, to help you chill out? Maybe you can find a quail or something. Just don't swing the gun around behind you. -- Ed Huntress |
#66
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"Gus" wrote in message
oups.com... Since a coward is one who turns tail and runs, neither flying airplanes into buildings nor lobbing cruise missiles is cowardly on the surface. Sure, but Mahar was reflecting on the relative courage of somebody sitting in an easy chair, pushing buttons and killing people thousands of miles away, and then calling people who flew airplanes into buildings, knowing they would die, "cowards." Calling them cowards is standing the truth on its head. And Mahar was far from the only one who recognized it. It's just that he's the most pugnacious of the lot, and the most inclined to call things as he sees them, political correctness be damned. But in my opinion, the killing of innocent people in pursuit of a goal is more cowardly than killing the guilty. And killing the innocent is exactly what terrorists do. Yeah. It appears we've killed something like 30,000 of them ourselves, according to Dubya. But, of course, those were "oops" killings... Mahar's strategy is to put the terrorists on a higher plane than our government for his own political purposes. I doubt if Mahar had a strategy, or a political purpose. He has a sharp eye for bull****, and calling the terrorists "cowards" was a particularly ripe piece of it. That's all that was going on there, Gus. It probably wasn't something that was considered much. That isn't Mahar's style. He speaks what's on his mind, and it gets him into a lot of trouble. g He also makes us uncomfortable with a lot of things he says. Brutal truths have a way of doing that. -- Ed Huntress |
#67
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
"Gus" wrote in message oups.com... Ed Huntress wrote: "Greylock" wrote in message ... On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:16:54 +0000 (UTC), wrote: This is funny as hell. Bill Mahar is a riot. Opions vary. Personally I sorta think referring to American soldiers as "cowards" is way beyond the pale. That he wasn't taken off the air permanently is a travesty and a damned shame. Whoa. Let's get this straight. He didn't call American soldiers cowardly. He objected to the (stupid) remark by Dubya that the Qaedas who flew planes into the WTC were "cowards." Mahar was right. They weren't cowards. They were murders and nutbags, but not cowards. What he DID say, in response, is this: "We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly." He's right. Flying cruise missiles into a foreign country at no risk to ourselves, simultaneously puffing ourselves up for courage and moral certitude while calling suicide attacks "cowardly," is self-congratulation going over the top. Conservative commentator Dinesh D'Souza also objected to the characterization of the WTC attackers as cowards. Stupid is stupid, and self-congratulation is self-congratulation, no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on. Let's make it clear again: Mahar did NOT say American soldiers are cowards. He said the leaders who flew cruise missiles into the enemy are (relatively speaking, or absolutely, as you choose) cowards. And he included all of us in the indictment, because it's our government. -- Ed Huntress Since a coward is one who turns tail and runs, neither flying airplanes into buildings nor lobbing cruise missiles is cowardly on the surface. But in my opinion, the killing of innocent people in pursuit of a goal is more cowardly than killing the guilty. And killing the innocent is exactly what terrorists do. Mahar's strategy is to put the terrorists on a higher plane than our government for his own political purposes. Gus No, he's not. What he is doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of our government. At least the terrorists are honest, he's saying. They are out to kill, just like we are, but they purposely kill people who we say are innocent. We, on the other hand, also kill people we call innocent but then claim we are different because we aren't doing it intentionally. That supposedly lets us off the hook. I don't know how you can say you are different from a terrorist when you know your actions will result in the deaths of innocent people yet you do it anyway. For instance, when we dropped bombs on Baghdad we knew that we were going to kill people that we were not specifically trying to kill. But we killed them just the same in the pursuit of our targets. The terrorists kill innocent people too, and on purpose. To some people there is no real difference, like to the people you kill and their families. If you kill innocent people, you kill innocent people, period. In fact, if you want to add them up you will find the we have killed the most innocent people. What Mahr does is point out that the truth is the US government is on an equal footing with the terrorists when it comes to killing innocent people. Both sides do it. The difference is they have a different attitude about it than we do, and that's about the only difference between the two. That and the fact that we are better at it than they are. That's what Mahr was getting at. Hawke |
#68
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
Hawke wrote: "Gus" wrote in message oups.com... Ed Huntress wrote: "Greylock" wrote in message ... On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:16:54 +0000 (UTC), wrote: This is funny as hell. Bill Mahar is a riot. Opions vary. Personally I sorta think referring to American soldiers as "cowards" is way beyond the pale. That he wasn't taken off the air permanently is a travesty and a damned shame. Whoa. Let's get this straight. He didn't call American soldiers cowardly. He objected to the (stupid) remark by Dubya that the Qaedas who flew planes into the WTC were "cowards." Mahar was right. They weren't cowards. They were murders and nutbags, but not cowards. What he DID say, in response, is this: "We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly." He's right. Flying cruise missiles into a foreign country at no risk to ourselves, simultaneously puffing ourselves up for courage and moral certitude while calling suicide attacks "cowardly," is self-congratulation going over the top. Conservative commentator Dinesh D'Souza also objected to the characterization of the WTC attackers as cowards. Stupid is stupid, and self-congratulation is self-congratulation, no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on. Let's make it clear again: Mahar did NOT say American soldiers are cowards. He said the leaders who flew cruise missiles into the enemy are (relatively speaking, or absolutely, as you choose) cowards. And he included all of us in the indictment, because it's our government. -- Ed Huntress Since a coward is one who turns tail and runs, neither flying airplanes into buildings nor lobbing cruise missiles is cowardly on the surface. But in my opinion, the killing of innocent people in pursuit of a goal is more cowardly than killing the guilty. And killing the innocent is exactly what terrorists do. Mahar's strategy is to put the terrorists on a higher plane than our government for his own political purposes. Gus No, he's not. What he is doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of our government. At least the terrorists are honest, he's saying. They are out to kill, just like we are, but they purposely kill people who we say are innocent. We, on the other hand, also kill people we call innocent but then claim we are different because we aren't doing it intentionally. That supposedly lets us off the hook. I don't know how you can say you are different from a terrorist when you know your actions will result in the deaths of innocent people yet you do it anyway. For instance, when we dropped bombs on Baghdad we knew that we were going to kill people that we were not specifically trying to kill. But we killed them just the same in the pursuit of our targets. The terrorists kill innocent people too, and on purpose. To some people there is no real difference, like to the people you kill and their families. If you kill innocent people, you kill innocent people, period. In fact, if you want to add them up you will find the we have killed the most innocent people. What Mahr does is point out that the truth is the US government is on an equal footing with the terrorists when it comes to killing innocent people. Both sides do it. The difference is they have a different attitude about it than we do, and that's about the only difference between the two. That and the fact that we are better at it than they are. That's what Mahr was getting at. Hawke I get the point but I see a difference between a terrorist trying to kill as many innocent people as possible and an army doing everything they can to try to minimize innocents being hurt and still get the job done. The intent has got to have something to do with it. Your "brave" terrorists are the ones who like to hide among women and children so that if they get their butt blown away the others will too. There's only so much of this "bravery" that I can take. GW |
#69
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:38:20 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: You make no sense lol... You need to think *first*. -- Cliff |
#70
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:42:18 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:51:08 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony" wrote: lying to congress, About what WMD? I say it always what happened to all the WMD UNSCOM had found that went missing? Can you please repeat that in English? SNIP prior sigs !! UNSCOM had accounted for numerous WMD in Iraq prior to getting kicked out in 98. Since that time no one knows what had happened to the existing stockpile they knew of, that is no longer to be found, It was never destroyed. and is out there somewere. Hans Blix also felt they just needed more time to find them. Our past three Presidents felt there was WMD in Iraq and needed to get Saddam out of power. You are at least one of: Totally out of touch with reality and past & curreent events. In the final stages of Winger's Disease. Confusd by mindless winger propaganda beyond belief. Braindead. BTW, Found those "WMDs" yet? The ones that the inspectors and Saddam said did not exist? The ones that most nations said did not exist? Mission to Mars: Beware, Wil Robinson! -- Cliff |
#71
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:44:23 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:51:08 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony" wrote: shooting lawyers, One thing to bring up something that is very upsetting and unintentional, next most people would agree shoot all lawyers first lol jk. I agree very sad and to be honest I wish we all would be treated so humanely for things we are sorry for doing. Had you hit a pedestrian with your car .... and, it would seem to be even more serious if done while committing another crime (poaching) or drinking (guess what?) SNIP PRIOR SIG Ok now you are off the wall. Poaching? Theft was it then? lol...I already said it is unfortunate that there is a double standard had anyone else made this mistake by saying I wish we all would be treated humanely for things we are sorry for doing. Unlike neocons & wingers ..... who like to torture & murder, among their many other vile habits. -- Cliff |
#72
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:03:20 -0800, dan wrote:
Cliff wrote: On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:01:40 +0000 (UTC), wrote: Anybody remember Pat Paulson? Quite well. He was one of the funniest political comedians ever. He was a comedian? That's P. Pat Paulson to you, buddy. Recall his bit with the fishing in the stream? "Priceless" Too bad I cannot find it on the Web ... probably searching wrongly. -- Cliff |
#73
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:53:36 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:06:12 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony" wrote: What is cowardly was Saddam paying suicide bombers of low income families 10k for each mission! A good way to get rich quick, eh? 50 missions and set for life ... OTOH The neocons only pay about $250,000 .... though I gather that more is optional ... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6891515/ Beyond that, I think you lied. SNIP PRIOR SIG !!! Why do I bother I can tell you are trolling now. And your judgement is .... It was a known fact what Saddam was doing paying suicide bombers. How could he? They would be DEAD. And what is this about 250k? It's what neocons want to pay their own dead bomber's friends & relatives. Seems like a much better paying job. This is the SGLI look it up. We were always entitled to this. I am not getting this article cause everyone gets it, we had to pay into it. All they are talking about is adding another 150k to make it 400k so get your facts right and read your article Cliffy boy before you try to sound smart. I remember some young lady I knew killed herself state side, she 19 years old and her family was able to collect. Was very sad event. Also when my friend killed himself in Bosnia same thing. Paying the dead? You brag about it but then blame Saddam .... how two-faced can you get? -- Cliff |
#74
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:55:40 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: I gave you an example of a cowardly act that is why I mentioned Saddam Good point. He offerd to fight the coward hand to hand and the coward is quite a bit younger & probably in better health, what with 5 or 6 full time doctors giving him psych meds to try to control things a bit. -- Cliff |
#75
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:57:54 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: Why don't you go shoot something, Graybutt, to help you chill out? Maybe you can find a quail or something. BEWARE the wild kind !! They are clearly unsafe to be about & might attack. Get the politically correct (Neocon party birds) kind: cage raised, wings clipped, pedicured. Be certain to use lots of armed bodyguards too, Great White Hunter. And a guide so you can tell them from lawyers. -- Cliff |
#76
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:57:47 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message .. . On 24 Feb 2006 09:56:36 -0800, "Gus" wrote: Mahar's strategy is to put the terrorists on a higher plane than our government for his own political purposes. Rubbish. Let's consider the numbers thus far ..... Probably about 2,000 Americans killed on 9-11 by criminals while Cheney had the North American Air Defense force (under his PERSONAL direction) off doing exercises in Greenland or Iceland (WHO told them to pick that one day?). Americans killed by the neocons attacking various nations thus far: 2,863 MINIMUM as of the lastest *official* numbers I found. SNIP PRIOR SIGS You truly have no clue how it works. You try it then: 2,286 + 266 + 311 (At LEAST) = Need a calculator? Wheres jb ... probably has a free demo (but the buttons are no doubt the wrong colour)..... -- Cliff |
#77
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 00:09:01 GMT, "Jim Newell" wrote:
Probably about 2,000 Americans killed on 9-11 by criminals AS OF MOST RECENT DATABASE UPDATE, 08/08/2004 1:26:29 AM: CONFIRMED DEAD: 2948 REPORTED DEAD: 24 REPORTED MISSING: 24 TOTAL: 2996 Off by 33%, but don't let the details hang you up cliff. What part of the term "Americans" was unclear? A great many in the WTC were not. See "World" as in "World Trade Center"? Reading comprehension impairment ... hand in hand with Winger's Disease? -- Cliff |
#78
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:24:10 -0800, "Hawke" wrote:
No, he's not. What he is doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of our government. At least the terrorists are honest, he's saying. They are out to kill, They were making a point nobodey much got. Not after the neocon spin & Faux lies and an unwillingness to think. Not that it needed to be made as it was already quite clear. If you don't want more of the same ... try solving the problems with Israel AS A START. 50+ years has been long enough I think. CLUE: When you don't have happy campers even if you are getting rich ... don't expect all to go well. Work on the problems, don't just make more of them the winger way. -- Cliff |
#79
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:24:10 -0800, "Hawke" wrote:
That and the fact that we are better at it than they are. Better at being "terrorists" & murdering ... -- Cliff |
#80
Posted to alt.machines.cnc,rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Bill Maher
On 25 Feb 2006 00:38:32 -0800, "Gus" wrote:
I get the point but I see a difference between a terrorist trying to kill as many innocent people as possible In point of fact, that clearly was NOT the intention of the folks on 9-11. Many, many more could have been killed in other ways with little risk of even being caught (and probaby cheaper to do with even less planning required too). Sorry if you've missed all of this but .... BTW, A suicide killer cannot kill again. Seems to be a one-time deal. -- Cliff |
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