"JWho" wrote in
news:2Ehbf.547233$xm3.377596@attbi_s21:

I think I am going to look on eBay for a used name brand micrometer.
Is there some way to check to see if it is accurate? Do they come
with a metal bar that is .5" or 1" exactly or something like that?? I
thought I saw something in a set at Harbor Freight. Is a micrometer
adjustable to get it back to accurate? I'd hate to buy one off eBay
and it be inaccurate. Also, there are so many different models that
it is confusing. If I get one off eBay, it won't be a Chinese one. I
can just go get a new one from Harbor Freight instead of eBay.

All micrometers are adjustable as far as I know. All of the brand name
ones are for certain. Most come with a "standard" which is a 1" long rod
(for a 0-1" and a 1-2") that you can use to set zero. Often there is no
standard with 0-1" micrometers, because you can just close the anvils and
make sure it reads zero.

To truly check out a micrometer requires tools that few machinists own.
You would need a set of gage blocks and an optical parallel along with a
light source. Plus an indicator. You would check the readings against the
gage blocks at 90 degree intervals throughout the travel of the
micrometer. You would then use the indicator to check the run out of the
spindle at various points in the travel. Then you would use the optical
parallel to check the flatness of the anvils and thier parallelism.

Trust me. If you buy a newer brand name micrometer off of Ebay you really
won't need to do this. I've checked some vintage tools I collect just for
the fun of it, and surprisingly 50-100 year old well used micrometers
rarely have a problem.

Individual gage blocks and micrometer standards are listed frequently on
Ebay. If the micrometer of your dreams doesn't come with a standard, you
can pick up an individual gage block or micrometer standard cheap and
easy. Once you get a mike, just let us know what it is and you'll get
help here on adjusting it.

I also read where you work in metric. You'll find good quality metric
micrometers are a little more scarce on Ebay than inch ones. But they
usually sell for cheap and are as a rule in very good shape.


--

Dan

"JWho" wrote in
news:QHhbf.306914$084.234906@attbi_s22:

snip



Hi. Thanks for the information. Of all the tools I mentioned, I can
make the most use out of a 25mm - 50mm (if that is the normal range)
micrometer. I am going to start looking on eBay for the brand names
you and others have mentioned. If a used one can be checked for
accuracy, then I would rather have a used name brand than a new Harbor
Freight one, if the price is not too much more.


Here is a nice 0-25mm http://tinyurl.com/8vdj2

A 0-25mm combimike which reads both inch and mm -

http://tinyurl.com/9v7qw


Here is a 25-50 spline tip (reduced diameter anvils to fit in narrow spaces
like grooves) an absolute steal at 39 bucks.

http://tinyurl.com/8wc2j

If you can live with a 1-2" instead of 25-50mm there are two very nice
Etalon micrometers listed right now. Other than that be patient.


--

Dan

"D Murphy" wrote in message
...
"JWho" wrote in
news:2Ehbf.547233$xm3.377596@attbi_s21:

I think I am going to look on eBay for a used name brand micrometer.
Is there some way to check to see if it is accurate? Do they come
with a metal bar that is .5" or 1" exactly or something like that?? I
thought I saw something in a set at Harbor Freight. Is a micrometer
adjustable to get it back to accurate? I'd hate to buy one off eBay
and it be inaccurate. Also, there are so many different models that
it is confusing. If I get one off eBay, it won't be a Chinese one. I
can just go get a new one from Harbor Freight instead of eBay.

All micrometers are adjustable as far as I know. All of the brand name
ones are for certain. Most come with a "standard" which is a 1" long rod
(for a 0-1" and a 1-2") that you can use to set zero. Often there is no
standard with 0-1" micrometers, because you can just close the anvils and
make sure it reads zero.

To truly check out a micrometer requires tools that few machinists own.
You would need a set of gage blocks and an optical parallel along with a
light source. Plus an indicator. You would check the readings against the
gage blocks at 90 degree intervals throughout the travel of the
micrometer. You would then use the indicator to check the run out of the
spindle at various points in the travel. Then you would use the optical
parallel to check the flatness of the anvils and thier parallelism.

Trust me. If you buy a newer brand name micrometer off of Ebay you really
won't need to do this. I've checked some vintage tools I collect just for
the fun of it, and surprisingly 50-100 year old well used micrometers
rarely have a problem.

Individual gage blocks and micrometer standards are listed frequently on
Ebay. If the micrometer of your dreams doesn't come with a standard, you
can pick up an individual gage block or micrometer standard cheap and
easy. Once you get a mike, just let us know what it is and you'll get
help here on adjusting it.

I also read where you work in metric. You'll find good quality metric
micrometers are a little more scarce on Ebay than inch ones. But they
usually sell for cheap and are as a rule in very good shape.


--

Dan


Hi. Thanks for the informatio on the "standard". When I get to shopping, I
wil look for one that comes with a standard, just in case I may need it.

I will check my current 0" - 1" micrometer to see what it says with the
anvils touching.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

"D Murphy" wrote in message
...
"JWho" wrote in
news:QHhbf.306914$084.234906@attbi_s22:

snip



Hi. Thanks for the information. Of all the tools I mentioned, I can
make the most use out of a 25mm - 50mm (if that is the normal range)
micrometer. I am going to start looking on eBay for the brand names
you and others have mentioned. If a used one can be checked for
accuracy, then I would rather have a used name brand than a new Harbor
Freight one, if the price is not too much more.


Here is a nice 0-25mm http://tinyurl.com/8vdj2

A 0-25mm combimike which reads both inch and mm -

http://tinyurl.com/9v7qw


Here is a 25-50 spline tip (reduced diameter anvils to fit in narrow
spaces
like grooves) an absolute steal at 39 bucks.

http://tinyurl.com/8wc2j

If you can live with a 1-2" instead of 25-50mm there are two very nice
Etalon micrometers listed right now. Other than that be patient.


--

Dan


Thank you for the links. I see where there is a whole eBay category for
micrometers! :-) I am going to be patient and read up on various ones
before making a decision. I found:

www.mitutoyo.com, www.starrett.com and www.brownandsharpe.com


I couldn't find Etalon. Do you know if they have a website? Is there
another company that I should be looking at? If you know any personal web
pages with "how to use a micrometer" information, I would like to read that,
too.

Thank you yet again!

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 02:26:04 +0000, (DoN.
Nichols) wrote:

Hi. Thanks for the suggestions. Would I need to look for only older
Craftsman Professional, or any year of Craftsman Professional?

This one I'll leave to Grant, as I am only familiar with the
ones which were made by Scherr Tumico for Sears to bear the Craftsman
name.

The mechanical digital mike that Sears sells/sold, for $99.95, is
identical, down to the cert papers, as the one HF sells/sold for $35

Just a heads up.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:59:56 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "JWho"
quickly quoth:


"Dave Lyon" wrote in message
news_Paf.541319$xm3.343462@attbi_s21...
I bought a new Mitutoyo dial caliper that varied by
.002", inside to outside measurements. That was excessive, and they
were
returned. I asked for a replacement, not a refund, for I have great
faith
in the Mitutoyo name, having used many of their measuring tools and
finding
them to be superior in some instances to Starrett, which I own almost
exclusively.

I don't care for starrett mikes. Most of them have slanted lines which I
find hard to read.

My favorites are Brown and Sharp, followed closely by the more affordable
Mitutoyo.

Thank you for the warning. If I understand you correctly, the measurement
marks do not go straight up and down. I didn't even know they made them
with slanted lines, and I don't think I would like that. My cheap $20
Sears( Chinese) micrometer has straight up and down lines.

Also, thanks for the information on Brown and Sharp. If you consider
Mitutuyo affordable, then I don't even have to look for Brown and Sharp on
Google. :-)

I very much agree with that! thud I'm happy with a 2+ decade old
pair of Chiwanese dial calipers which will still read down to a sixth
of an RCH with no problem. If I were trying to mike tenths or microns,
I'd no doubt be making the kind of money which would warrant the much
pricier Mitutoyo, B&S, or Starrett tools.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty is easy. * http://diversify.com
It's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"JWho" wrote in message
news:sxhbf.547211$xm3.207173@attbi_s21...
snip

Hi. Thanks for the additional information. From everyone's help, it
looks
like I may need to check on eBay for a used micrometer. I don't use one
often nough to justify the cost of a new, high quality, name brand model.

You might also keep Lufkin in mind. They aren't made any longer, but have a
pretty good reputation and most folks seem to have forgotten that they
existed. That can mean lower prices on Ebay, compared to Starrett and B&S.
A few years back I picked up a nice set of 0-6" micrometers in a wood case
for $100 and they've all checked out good.

Mike

In article , michael says...

I was thinking the same thing. I've had occasion to get some tools at 2
different estate sales. I don't recall tit for tat, but the value I got
was excellent. At one I got, among other things, a small Kennedy chest
with the 2-drawer under it. Inside the boxes were several types of
Starrett mics, ID, OD, depth. They all had the original cert of accuracy
with them and there were absolutely no chips in any of the drawers. I
also got several things that don't always make it on the need to buy
list, but are needed and/or wanted.

Well that was a score.

The sad part about sales like that is, they often mean
a toolmaker has died and their estate is selling off
his stuff.

Sometimes it is just the guy himself deciding he's
getting out of the business and is tired of looking
at his tooling.

Part of the deal here is that you have to stay and
listen to the stories and ask pertinent questions.
I've found this is not too onerous a responsibility.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Mike Henry" wrote in message
...

"JWho" wrote in message
news:sxhbf.547211$xm3.207173@attbi_s21...
snip

Hi. Thanks for the additional information. From everyone's help, it
looks
like I may need to check on eBay for a used micrometer. I don't use one
often nough to justify the cost of a new, high quality, name brand
model.

You might also keep Lufkin in mind. They aren't made any longer, but have
a
pretty good reputation and most folks seem to have forgotten that they
existed. That can mean lower prices on Ebay, compared to Starrett and
B&S.
A few years back I picked up a nice set of 0-6" micrometers in a wood case
for $100 and they've all checked out good.

Mike



Hi. Thanks for the name. I will keep them in mind. From what I am seeing,
6 for $100 is a great price!

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 11:13:36 GMT, "JWho" wrote:


I couldn't find Etalon. Do you know if they have a website? Is there
another company that I should be looking at? If you know any personal web
pages with "how to use a micrometer" information, I would like to read that,
too.

Thank you yet again!

Etalon is Swiss. Really really good stuff. I have a few pieces. Good
stuff, very pricey when new.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

"JWho" wrote in message
news:jbpbf.548230$xm3.537404@attbi_s21...

"Mike Henry" wrote in message
...

"JWho" wrote in message
news:sxhbf.547211$xm3.207173@attbi_s21...
snip

Hi. Thanks for the additional information. From everyone's help, it
looks
like I may need to check on eBay for a used micrometer. I don't use
one
often nough to justify the cost of a new, high quality, name brand
model.

You might also keep Lufkin in mind. They aren't made any longer, but
have
a
pretty good reputation and most folks seem to have forgotten that they
existed. That can mean lower prices on Ebay, compared to Starrett and
B&S.
A few years back I picked up a nice set of 0-6" micrometers in a wood
case
for $100 and they've all checked out good.

Mike



Hi. Thanks for the name. I will keep them in mind. From what I am
seeing,
6 for $100 is a great price!

Well, the seller wasn't too happy as he paid $150 for it at an estate sale.
The case was beat up a bit and that probably had a bearing on the final
price.

One never knows with used tools though - one of the mics could be bent or
spung a bit - so you have to take that risk into account.

Mike

jim rozen wrote:
In article , michael says...


I was thinking the same thing. I've had occasion to get some tools at 2
different estate sales. I don't recall tit for tat, but the value I got
was excellent. At one I got, among other things, a small Kennedy chest
with the 2-drawer under it. Inside the boxes were several types of
Starrett mics, ID, OD, depth. They all had the original cert of accuracy
with them and there were absolutely no chips in any of the drawers. I
also got several things that don't always make it on the need to buy
list, but are needed and/or wanted.


Well that was a score.

The sad part about sales like that is, they often mean
a toolmaker has died and their estate is selling off
his stuff.

Sometimes it is just the guy himself deciding he's
getting out of the business and is tired of looking
at his tooling.

Part of the deal here is that you have to stay and
listen to the stories and ask pertinent questions.
I've found this is not too onerous a responsibility.

Jim



Both were sales where a family friend was helping the widow, one of the
deceased was indeed a toolmaker. I have occasion to pause and reflect on
the former owners when I pick up one of these tools to use. And you're
right, the stories are not a big problem to deal with. I have a couple
to share usually also. I know I would like to think that another skilled
person makes use of my tools when I no longer can. Or maybe better, an
unskilled person on the way up.


michael

"michael" wrote in message
...
snip-----

Harold, why in the #### do you have a Last Word indicator? I got one
with a bunch of stuff once and found a sucker to take it. And I didn't
have to pay him!

Believe it or not, it makes a good indicator for removing taper when running
grinders. The design lends itself to use with a Starrett mag base----which
one uses--even when running a centerless. That doesn't make me feel much
better about having paid for that damned thing new, however. Other
indicators would also work, and for more things than that.

You'll have to forgive me for purchasing it. I was young-----18, and
foolish. Not old and wise, like I am now at age 66. No way in hell
could they pry money out of my pocket for one of those damned things these
days.

Hey, sucker, -----don't try blowing smoke up my skirt about measuring to
tenths with no damned caliper, and I don't care if it's a vernier, dial or
digi--------it ain't gonna happen, although, like you, when you're in a
corner, you do what you have to do. Try selling that measurement to a
Gov QC guy and see how far you get. The error just from misalignment will
be greater than a tenth or two, and I've yet to see one of those damned
crescent wrenches that was any closer than a thou, and even that's a
stretch.

Still busy?

H

"JWho" wrote in message
news:kqcbf.524542$_o.395773@attbi_s71...
snip---

How is Mitituyo pronounced??

It's Mitutoyo, and pronounced Mitootoyo. Generally quite good quality.

Harold

"JWho" wrote in message
news:Orlbf.547395$xm3.166892@attbi_s21...

"D Murphy" wrote in message
...
"JWho" wrote in
news:2Ehbf.547233$xm3.377596@attbi_s21:

I think I am going to look on eBay for a used name brand micrometer.
Is there some way to check to see if it is accurate? Do they come
with a metal bar that is .5" or 1" exactly or something like that?? I
thought I saw something in a set at Harbor Freight. Is a micrometer
adjustable to get it back to accurate? I'd hate to buy one off eBay
and it be inaccurate. Also, there are so many different models that
it is confusing. If I get one off eBay, it won't be a Chinese one. I
can just go get a new one from Harbor Freight instead of eBay.

All micrometers are adjustable as far as I know. All of the brand name
ones are for certain. Most come with a "standard" which is a 1" long rod
(for a 0-1" and a 1-2") that you can use to set zero. Often there is no
standard with 0-1" micrometers, because you can just close the anvils
and
make sure it reads zero.

To truly check out a micrometer requires tools that few machinists own.
You would need a set of gage blocks and an optical parallel along with a
light source. Plus an indicator. You would check the readings against
the
gage blocks at 90 degree intervals throughout the travel of the
micrometer. You would then use the indicator to check the run out of the
spindle at various points in the travel. Then you would use the optical
parallel to check the flatness of the anvils and thier parallelism.

Trust me. If you buy a newer brand name micrometer off of Ebay you
really
won't need to do this. I've checked some vintage tools I collect just
for
the fun of it, and surprisingly 50-100 year old well used micrometers
rarely have a problem.

Individual gage blocks and micrometer standards are listed frequently on
Ebay. If the micrometer of your dreams doesn't come with a standard, you
can pick up an individual gage block or micrometer standard cheap and
easy. Once you get a mike, just let us know what it is and you'll get
help here on adjusting it.

I also read where you work in metric. You'll find good quality metric
micrometers are a little more scarce on Ebay than inch ones. But they
usually sell for cheap and are as a rule in very good shape.


--

Dan


Hi. Thanks for the informatio on the "standard". When I get to shopping,
I
wil look for one that comes with a standard, just in case I may need it.

I will check my current 0" - 1" micrometer to see what it says with the
anvils touching.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.


Before closing the spindle on the anvil, place a sheet of paper between
them, then snug up the spindle so there's some drag on the paper, but not so
much you can't move it. When you have the pressure just right, pull the
paper out. That cleans the spindle and anvil perfectly, unlike any other
method, and prevents tightening the two faces on something that can damage
them. Repeat the process until the paper comes out from between the mic
clean---

Harold

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"michael" wrote in message
...
snip-----

Harold, why in the #### do you have a Last Word indicator? I got one
with a bunch of stuff once and found a sucker to take it. And I didn't
have to pay him!


Believe it or not, it makes a good indicator for removing taper when running
grinders. The design lends itself to use with a Starrett mag base----which
one uses--even when running a centerless. That doesn't make me feel much
better about having paid for that damned thing new, however. Other
indicators would also work, and for more things than that.

You'll have to forgive me for purchasing it. I was young-----18, and
foolish. Not old and wise, like I am now at age 66. No way in hell
could they pry money out of my pocket for one of those damned things these
days.

Hey, sucker, -----don't try blowing smoke up my skirt about measuring to
tenths with no damned caliper, and I don't care if it's a vernier, dial or
digi--------it ain't gonna happen, although, like you, when you're in a
corner, you do what you have to do. Try selling that measurement to a
Gov QC guy and see how far you get. The error just from misalignment will
be greater than a tenth or two, and I've yet to see one of those damned
crescent wrenches that was any closer than a thou, and even that's a
stretch.

Maybe in your day using that antique stuff. I have, indirectly, done
military/aerospace work when all I had to measure some features was my
dials and Jo blocks. Rejections? Zero. Of course, I have since expanded
my measuring capabilities. And, I'm talking +/-.0002. Not too big a
problem if one is careful.


Still busy?

H



Not as much. Do have 1200 of the steel parts going on as I type this.
Maybe some diver's rebreather components coming up soon.


michael

"JWho" wrote in
news:Azlbf.547398$xm3.367777@attbi_s21:

I couldn't find Etalon. Do you know if they have a website? Is there
another company that I should be looking at? If you know any personal
web pages with "how to use a micrometer" information, I would like to
read that, too.

Etalon is one of the best. I don't know of a web site for how to use a
micrometer, but Starrett puts out or used to put out a pamphlet calles
"Tools and Rules" or something like that. Mitutoyo also has a very good
book on metrology (science of measurement). Read those two and you will
learn plenty.

Another good source for evaluations of different brands is Long Island
Indicator. Surf their web site, there is a ton of good info on there. Here
is a link to their web site page where they discuss Etalon micrometers.

http://www.longislandindicator.com/p161.html

The 1-2" is $279.00. The one ones on Ebay were up to $9.99 for the older
one and around $22.00 for the newer one. Also there is a link at the bottom
of the page that will take you to a page that tells how to calibrate a
micrometer.


Thank you yet again!

You welcome.

--

Dan

"JWho" wrote in news:Azlbf.547398$xm3.367777@attbi_s21:


I couldn't find Etalon.

I forgot to mention. Brown & Sharpe, Etalon and Tesa are all owned by
Hexagon Metrology. Etalon and Tesa are he

http://www.tesabs.ch/En/Html/En_Home.html

--

Dan

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"JWho" wrote in message
news:kqcbf.524542$_o.395773@attbi_s71...
snip---

How is Mitituyo pronounced??

It's Mitutoyo, and pronounced Mitootoyo. Generally quite good quality.

Harold



Thanks!

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"JWho" wrote in message
news:Orlbf.547395$xm3.166892@attbi_s21...

"D Murphy" wrote in message
...
"JWho" wrote in
news:2Ehbf.547233$xm3.377596@attbi_s21:

I think I am going to look on eBay for a used name brand micrometer.
Is there some way to check to see if it is accurate? Do they come
with a metal bar that is .5" or 1" exactly or something like that??
I
thought I saw something in a set at Harbor Freight. Is a micrometer
adjustable to get it back to accurate? I'd hate to buy one off eBay
and it be inaccurate. Also, there are so many different models that
it is confusing. If I get one off eBay, it won't be a Chinese one.
I
can just go get a new one from Harbor Freight instead of eBay.

All micrometers are adjustable as far as I know. All of the brand name
ones are for certain. Most come with a "standard" which is a 1" long
rod
(for a 0-1" and a 1-2") that you can use to set zero. Often there is
no
standard with 0-1" micrometers, because you can just close the anvils
and
make sure it reads zero.

To truly check out a micrometer requires tools that few machinists
own.
You would need a set of gage blocks and an optical parallel along with
a
light source. Plus an indicator. You would check the readings against
the
gage blocks at 90 degree intervals throughout the travel of the
micrometer. You would then use the indicator to check the run out of
the
spindle at various points in the travel. Then you would use the
optical
parallel to check the flatness of the anvils and thier parallelism.

Trust me. If you buy a newer brand name micrometer off of Ebay you
really
won't need to do this. I've checked some vintage tools I collect just
for
the fun of it, and surprisingly 50-100 year old well used micrometers
rarely have a problem.

Individual gage blocks and micrometer standards are listed frequently
on
Ebay. If the micrometer of your dreams doesn't come with a standard,
you
can pick up an individual gage block or micrometer standard cheap and
easy. Once you get a mike, just let us know what it is and you'll get
help here on adjusting it.

I also read where you work in metric. You'll find good quality metric
micrometers are a little more scarce on Ebay than inch ones. But they
usually sell for cheap and are as a rule in very good shape.


--

Dan


Hi. Thanks for the informatio on the "standard". When I get to
shopping,
I
wil look for one that comes with a standard, just in case I may need it.

I will check my current 0" - 1" micrometer to see what it says with the
anvils touching.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.


Before closing the spindle on the anvil, place a sheet of paper between
them, then snug up the spindle so there's some drag on the paper, but not
so
much you can't move it. When you have the pressure just right, pull the
paper out. That cleans the spindle and anvil perfectly, unlike any other
method, and prevents tightening the two faces on something that can damage
them. Repeat the process until the paper comes out from between the mic
clean---

Harold



That sounds like a good method. I have been using a paper towel.

Thanks.

"D Murphy" wrote in message
...
"JWho" wrote in news:Azlbf.547398$xm3.367777@attbi_s21:


I couldn't find Etalon.

I forgot to mention. Brown & Sharpe, Etalon and Tesa are all owned by
Hexagon Metrology. Etalon and Tesa are he

http://www.tesabs.ch/En/Html/En_Home.html

--

Dan


Hi. Thanks for the additional information. I will keep an eye out for a
name brand.

, but I have never heard of Enco.

www.use-enco.com

Also, thanks for the information on Brown and Sharp. If you consider
Mitutuyo affordable, then I don't even have to look for Brown and Sharp on
Google. :-)



I understand that cost is a concern, but remember, you'll only be buying
them once.

How is the quality of the caliper/micrometer set at Costco? Sorry if this
has already been answered but I just got online from a computer crash last
Wednesday. Point me to the right post.
Thanks
Karl

"JWho" wrote in message
news:I%Iaf.516772$_o.377448@attbi_s71...
What are some features to look for in a micrometer or caliper? Are the
ones
at Harbor Freight worth considering? I have a $20 micrometer from Sears,
but I think it may not be too accurate. I am looking to mainly measure
items that are .1mm - .3mm in thickness (weekly use), but sometimes stuff
that is larger (monthly or yearly). I wouldn't need to measure anything
larger than 3"/75ish mm. I saw a 3 piece kit at Harbor Freight that has a
0-25mm micrometer, 25 - 50mm micrometer and 50 - 75 mm micrometer. Has
anyone seen that one?

What makes a Starett/Mitutuyo/etc. brand so much more better (expensive
too)?

Thank you.

"Chuck Sherwood" wrote in message
...
, but I have never heard of Enco.

www.use-enco.com

Thanks! I will check it out.

Jim sez:

Among other truisms, "... Part of the deal here is that you have to stay
and listen to the stories and ask pertinent questions. I've found this is
not too onerous a responsibility".

Right on, Jim! One fellow I had always tried to listen to give of my time
showed his appreciation, I suppose, by giving me a set of Brown & Sharpe,
tolerance grade 2, carbide Jo Blocks. I said, "Carbide". Of course there
was one small problem; the 0.500 block was missing. I didn't mind at all
paying the $75.00 it took to order a replacement B&S carbide 0.500 block to
complete the set. Yes, it does pay to listen to and be friendly with those
that may only be a bit lonely, or whatever. Sometimes, it pays big! And at
other times you have only your satisfaction - but it always pays.

Bob Swinney

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 05:21:36 GMT, Gunner
scribed:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 15:04:29 -0600, Rex B
wrote:

Chuck Sherwood wrote:
I work in machine shops as a machine tool repair tech. Given that
most shops now days have few machinists..but lots of operators at
lower pay scales..Chinese metrology equipment is very very common.
Every calibrator Ive talked to says that 99.99% of Chinese mics etc
etc will pass calibration every time, for at least 5 yrs of daily


I have a set of chineese mics from enco and they work fine. When
I first got them, I would measure something with a starret or B&S
and the enco and they compared well. I enve tried a couple Jo
blocks and they seemed right on. They work well and the price is
right. I also use the cheap enco calipers for everyday work. I
have better ones, but I don't cry if I drop the cheap ones.

I've had the same experience. The Enco mics get everyday use and I don't
worry about them walking off.

I guess I should mention...most of my mics are NSK. Except the Harbor
Frieght mechanical digital that works just hunky dorey.

Hi Gunner... Glad they are still working for you! Nice quality product
is NSK...

Fred


Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 5 Nov 2005 09:46:04 GMT, D Murphy scribed:

"JWho" wrote in
news:I%Iaf.516772$_o.377448@attbi_s71:

What are some features to look for in a micrometer or caliper?

You've gotten some good advice but I'll throw in my .02. Features to look
for in a micrometer to me would be:

Carbide faces - They wear longer and stay flatter over time. Downside is
that carbide chips easily, so if you aren't going to be careful and
organized don't bother.

"Tenths" vernier - Allows you to measure to .0001"

Spindle lock - Allows you to reach into a machine, measure, engage the
lock, then remove the micrometer so you can read it. The lever types are
easiest to use, they also break quicker than the knurled ring around a
collar type.

Adjustment for calibration - There are several schemes for this, the
easiest to use are the type where the barrel is rotated by a small
spanner wrench. The worst are the types where you have to remove the
spindle, tweek it, then put it back together to see if you've done any
good.

Slip mechanism - This would be either a friction thimble or a ratchet on
the end of the thimble. I prefer a friction thimble for measuring while
holding the mic in my hand. I prefer the ratchet thimble for use in a
micrometer stand. A micrometer stand will allow you to measure more
repeatably and more accurately.

Thimble diameter - Often an overlooked feature. I like my Starett because
it's light and skinny (plus it was the first one I bought). OTOH, I don't
like it for measuring "tenths". As I get older it's harder to read, plus
it's prone to parallax error. A fat thimble like the one on my Helios
gives me more consistant readings as the lines are spaced further apart
and easier on my failing eyesight. If you aren't old now, just wait.

Calipers are a different matter. First you need to decide which type you
want; verniers, dial, or digital. In general:

Verniers - they are the most accurate and repeatable of the bunch. They
also will last damn near forever if used carefully and taken care of.
They can be hard to read, and quick reading is not a feature built into
these. Starrett 123 verniers are the best bar none. They are also very
expensive. Mitutoyo makes a decent pair of six inch ones that can be
bought new today. They are lighter and more frail than the Starrett, plus
they aren't flush reading so parallax error can be a problem.

Dial Calipers - The features I look for a

Four way measurement. They can measure OD using the main jaws. ID's using
the top jaws. Depth using the rod that comes out of the end. And steps
using the outside edge of the fixed jaw and the outside edge of the
moveable jaw.

.100" per revolution dial. Some calipers move .200" per revolution of the
dial, these are harder to read.

Covered gear rack - dial calipers have a gear rack that drives the
clockworks when the moveable jaw slides. If chip get in there, the
caliper at the very least can jump teeth resulting in an off center zero.
At worst the gears become damaged and the caliper will no longer be
accurate through out the range.

Quality - They can range from nearly as good as a vernier to nearly
worthless. I've used them all over the years. The Brown and Sharpes are
the best. They are also the same as the Etalon and the Tesa dial
calipers. The Etalon ones are usually more expensive because they have a
pretty horse stamped on them If you go with the B&S calipers make sure
they are the ones that say Swiss made. Mitutoyo is a decent second
choice. They are a little light and not as smooth but overall they are
OK. The Starretts aren't worth the money IMO. They are too soft and I
don't like the feel of them. You could buy a Peacock brand (cheap
Japanese) and get the same quality for a lot less. I don't like the
Chinese ones at all. Dial calipers need to have precision gears, and
quality assembly. They Stainless Steel should be quality and well
hardened. Those qualities don't exist in Chinese dial calipers.

Digital Calipers - You can pretty much buy a Mitutoto, Starrett, Brown
and Sharpe, Etalon, or Tesa and end up with a damn nice tool. That being
said, if your budget is tight the Chinese digital calipers aren't bad at
all for the money. Buy them on Ebay and you'll save some money. The big
brands are more coolant proof, have harder jaws, and better battery life.
But if you can be careful with the Chinese ones, they are about as
accurate. Just remove the battery between uses. They suck juice in a big
way just sitting there turned off. Some don't turn off automatically
either, but the difference in battery life is small. Only buy NEW
calipers on Ebay. Micrometers are another matter, but calipers are easily
damaged.

Are
the ones at Harbor Freight worth considering?

No for the micrometers, and maybe for digital calipers. You can buy a
perfectly good high quality used micrometer on Ebay for about what you'd
pay for a Chinese one new. Starretts usually command a slightly higher
price due to the name. But 0-1" Starretts are so common though the price
is usually 1/3 - 1/4 of new. Mitutoyo's are decent and often go for
cheap. But if you are savvy and patient you can snag a really nice
micrometer for next to nothing. What you want to keep an eye out for are
older Helios micrometers, newer Tesa, and Brown & Sharpes. Alos look for
older MG brand, I bought one of these NOS, never used. It's a Lufkin
rebranded. MG later became General brand. Don't touch those. The one you
want will have carbide, tenths, and a unique friction thimble that is at
the top of the thimble, plus a knurled ring lock. These are stamped "Made
in USA". They were sold mainly in hobby stores, but they are Lufkin. I
paid $3.00 for mine plus shipping. But be careful, some are cheap hobby
type and are nearly worthless. If it doesn't have the above features
don't bid. Also look for Mitutoyo "106" micrometers. They have a non
rotating anvil and the model# starts with "106-" Hell here is a 1-2"
http://cgi.ebay.com/MITUTOYO-MICROMETERS-1-2-INCH-75-
OFF_W0QQitemZ7554844037QQcategoryZ92085QQssPageNa meZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI
tem

or http://tinyurl.com/7uwbp

People don't know what these are and they sell cheap!

Also look for JT Slocomb, Lufkin, and Etalon. Etalons usually sell for
big bucks.

I have a $20 micrometer
from Sears, but I think it may not be too accurate.

Older Craftsmen micrometers can be made by Starrett, Mitutoyo, or Helios.
All very good. The new ones aren't worth a damn.

I am looking to
mainly measure items that are .1mm - .3mm in thickness (weekly use),
but sometimes stuff that is larger (monthly or yearly). I wouldn't
need to measure anything larger than 3"/75ish mm. I saw a 3 piece kit
at Harbor Freight that has a 0-25mm micrometer, 25 - 50mm micrometer
and 50 - 75 mm micrometer. Has anyone seen that one?

They are probably like these http://tinyurl.com/9u5q3

Instead of Chinese look for the ones made in Poland. They are really
quite nice - http://tinyurl.com/dl8vx

They are usually called VIS or VIN brand. Sometimes they just say Poland.

I would try to get used brand name first. At least for the 0-1". You will
use it the most.

Here is a guy with a bunch of new Mitutoyo digit mics listed

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZadsotlarQQhtZ-1

Looks like they can be had for ten bucks plus shipping. Why buy Chinese?


What makes a Starett/Mitutuyo/etc. brand so much more better
(expensive too)?

They are more accurate. They are made with better materials, have better
fit, finish and feel. Often the frames and spindle are harder. Plus they
stand behind what they sell. You can send tham a broken tool and they
will fix it, or you can order parts from them. The tools are also
traceable to NIST.


Murph,

Sorry to jump in so late... Have been away for Business.

Excellent response about Micrometer tools and Dial Calipers!

Helios pretty much invented the Dial Caliper and have many 100's
thousands in the field that are giving great service 40-50 years
later. Any Helios instrument is a bonus to have in your good toolbox.

A better instrument would be hard to find today.

We still have parts for them, if you are in need.

Fred V. Fowler III

www.fvfowler.com

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:19:57 GMT, Gunner
scribed:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 11:13:36 GMT, "JWho" wrote:


I couldn't find Etalon. Do you know if they have a website? Is there
another company that I should be looking at? If you know any personal web
pages with "how to use a micrometer" information, I would like to read that,
too.

Thank you yet again!

Etalon is Swiss. Really really good stuff. I have a few pieces. Good
stuff, very pricey when new.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry


Gunner:

Etalon was a daughter company of Tesa, which was owned by Brown
&Sharpe. Since 2003 B&S have gone out of the hand tool business and
was purchased by a Swedish company called Hexagon. In fact, this
company has been buying many other metrology firms like Sheffield,
Faro, Leitz, Roemer, DEA. Mostly CMM stuff. I am not so sure they
make an offer for Renishaw?

The B&S plants in Providence RI a re closed now, and they are trying
to sell the buildings and land but have problems due to some
environmental issues with the land.

Tesa makes a good product, as does Etalon, but their time is limited
on the world market as prices change and market fluctuations come in
to play... In Metrology, we are governed by machine tool sales, and in
this market only a few will always come to bear...

Quality, Delivery, Price

Best,

Fred III

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:59:48 -0500, Fred Fowler III
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 05:21:36 GMT, Gunner
scribed:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 15:04:29 -0600, Rex B
wrote:

Chuck Sherwood wrote:
I work in machine shops as a machine tool repair tech. Given that
most shops now days have few machinists..but lots of operators at
lower pay scales..Chinese metrology equipment is very very common.
Every calibrator Ive talked to says that 99.99% of Chinese mics etc
etc will pass calibration every time, for at least 5 yrs of daily


I have a set of chineese mics from enco and they work fine. When
I first got them, I would measure something with a starret or B&S
and the enco and they compared well. I enve tried a couple Jo
blocks and they seemed right on. They work well and the price is
right. I also use the cheap enco calipers for everyday work. I
have better ones, but I don't cry if I drop the cheap ones.

I've had the same experience. The Enco mics get everyday use and I don't
worry about them walking off.

I guess I should mention...most of my mics are NSK. Except the Harbor
Frieght mechanical digital that works just hunky dorey.

Hi Gunner... Glad they are still working for you! Nice quality product
is NSK...

Fred

Hey Fred!

Ive still got an older Fowler digital caliper that uses (2) 357
batts..but keeps on working and working and working.

Yall make good stuff.

My Fowler .0001 dial test indicator gets a regular workout too.

G

Gunner


Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

"Fred Fowler III" wrote in message
...
snip-----

The B&S plants in Providence RI a re closed now, and they are trying
to sell the buildings and land------- more snippage

Fred III



My God! How sad is that? What are we going to have left in this country?

Harold

In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

What are we going to have left in this country?

People to operate chinese cranes to unload chinese ships onto chinese
trucks to drive to chinese stores. We are already at least halfway there
with the chinese ships and cranes...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

What are we going to have left in this country?

People to operate chinese cranes to unload chinese ships onto chinese
trucks to drive to chinese stores. We are already at least halfway there
with the chinese ships and cranes...



Sigh!! Shrug!

Harold

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:42:47 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

What are we going to have left in this country?

People to operate chinese cranes to unload chinese ships onto chinese
trucks to drive to chinese stores. We are already at least halfway there
with the chinese ships and cranes...
And people will buy the products, paying with chinese money.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:42:47 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

What are we going to have left in this country?

People to operate chinese cranes to unload chinese ships onto chinese
trucks to drive to chinese stores. We are already at least halfway there
with the chinese ships and cranes...
And people will buy the products, paying with chinese money.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Sobering!

Harold

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:34:23 -0800, the renowned "Harold and Susan
Vordos" wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:42:47 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

What are we going to have left in this country?

People to operate chinese cranes to unload chinese ships onto chinese
trucks to drive to chinese stores. We are already at least halfway there
with the chinese ships and cranes...
And people will buy the products, paying with chinese money.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Sobering!

Harold

What's wrong with Chinese money? It's going up in value, after all.
Those pretty red Y100 notes with Mao on them are *more* sound than the
US dollar at the moment.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:34:23 -0800, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:42:47 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:

What are we going to have left in this country?

People to operate chinese cranes to unload chinese ships onto chinese
trucks to drive to chinese stores. We are already at least halfway there
with the chinese ships and cranes...
And people will buy the products, paying with chinese money.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Sobering!

Harold

You mean like the bogus Canadian 100s and 50s that are going around
Ontario right now? Suspect Chinese TONGs in the drug trade are behind
it.

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
snip----

What's wrong with Chinese money? It's going up in value, after all.
Those pretty red Y100 notes with Mao on them are *more* sound than the
US dollar at the moment.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Possibly nothing, but it's shocking to suggest that they might have gone so
far, so fast (or perhaps that the US has slipped so far, so fast). I
realize that the US isn't always going to be in the driver's seat------just
didn't think it might happen now. As I've often stated, I don't
understand things like this very well. Frankly, I wouldn't mind being back
in the '50's. Wonderful, simple days, in keeping with my ability.

Harold

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:16:31 -0500, Gerald Miller
wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:42:47 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:
In article ,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
What are we going to have left in this country?
People to operate chinese cranes to unload chinese ships onto chinese
trucks to drive to chinese stores. We are already at least halfway there
with the chinese ships and cranes...
And people will buy the products, paying with chinese money.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
====================
Interesting word choice. In merger and acquisition activity the
term 'chinese money' designates stock or securities of doubtful
value used to purchase a going concern from its stockholders.

In this sense we may already be paying with 'chinese money.' I
wonder how much longer our overseas supliers will continue to
accept 'enron derivatives' and 'world-com debentures' in payment?

Fred Fowler III wrote in
:

Murph,

Sorry to jump in so late... Have been away for Business.

Heh. I just now saw your response, I was in Japan all week.


Excellent response about Micrometer tools and Dial Calipers!

Thanks.


Helios pretty much invented the Dial Caliper and have many 100's
thousands in the field that are giving great service 40-50 years
later. Any Helios instrument is a bonus to have in your good toolbox.

I have a Helios 0-1" micrometer. It's one of the best I've ever used.


A better instrument would be hard to find today.

True. I would add that Helios verniers are also a bargain on Ebay. Verniers
have "permanant" error and the accuracy doesn't degrade over time. Unless
the measuring faces get damaged, but even then the jaws can be re-lapped.


We still have parts for them, if you are in need.

I don't at the moment but I'll keep that in mind. I've bought a number of
tools from your company over the years and never had a problem. So I've
never needed parts or service.


--

Dan