I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate to
this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor concrete
and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be a major
concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I could use
it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I guess before I
go on too much more I should mention what I actually want to do in it! It
will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned about excessive
noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be prepping/making the pieces
that will be welded in this room as well. This means grinding, drilling,
cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going to this room, so hopefully
the mess would stay enclosed in there, but basically I'm looking for a real
world sanity from anybody else that has done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the
room twice a week, can I actually pull this off without ruining my house?
If anyone else has built something like this, I'd love to see some pictures.
I am just trying to prepare my "case" for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm
going to start welding in the basement, but don't worry, the whole house
won't be covered in aluminum shavings" :-)

Thanks
Jeff

"Ignoramus12686" wrote: (clip) Grinding is somewhat worse, chop saw is way
too loud. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOTE: It is possible to start a fire with the stream of sparks from a
grinder. I once actually set fire to the shop coat I was WEARING. Also,
plan your work so you never finish welding and then close up and leave the
shop. It is possible for sparks to fall somewhere and start a smouldering
fire.

Jeff B wrote:

I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate to
this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor concrete
and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be a major
concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I could use
it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I guess before I
go on too much more I should mention what I actually want to do in it! It
will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned about excessive
noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be prepping/making the pieces
that will be welded in this room as well. This means grinding, drilling,
cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going to this room, so hopefully
the mess would stay enclosed in there, but basically I'm looking for a real
world sanity from anybody else that has done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the
room twice a week, can I actually pull this off without ruining my house?
If anyone else has built something like this, I'd love to see some pictures.
I am just trying to prepare my "case" for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm
going to start welding in the basement, but don't worry, the whole house
won't be covered in aluminum shavings" :-)

Thanks
Jeff

I'd suggest finding a new house in an area where there are no
restrictions. Tell your real estate agent that this is a requirement.
The more people who do this (as I did) the more chance the developers
building these crappy overcrowded developments and creating the
restrictions might get a clue that not everyone wants that crap.

This is also one of the problems contributing to all the lard-ass
children with zero physical skills. All these crappy developments
provide no room for kids to actually run around and get exercise and
develop physical skills. I grew up on a few heavily wooded acres with a
stream running through.

I hopped around the rocks and climbed the trees and whatnot. I see far
too many kids whose sole outdoor activity options are a swing in a 20'
square yard and the early years, before they could potentially go to an
area park on their own are the most critical years for developing these
skills.

Pete C.

Ignoramus12686 wrote:

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:31:07 GMT, Pete C. wrote:
Jeff B wrote:

I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate to
this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor concrete
and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be a major
concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I could use
it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I guess before I
go on too much more I should mention what I actually want to do in it! It
will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned about excessive
noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be prepping/making the pieces
that will be welded in this room as well. This means grinding, drilling,
cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going to this room, so hopefully
the mess would stay enclosed in there, but basically I'm looking for a real
world sanity from anybody else that has done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the
room twice a week, can I actually pull this off without ruining my house?
If anyone else has built something like this, I'd love to see some pictures.
I am just trying to prepare my "case" for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm
going to start welding in the basement, but don't worry, the whole house
won't be covered in aluminum shavings" :-)

Thanks
Jeff

I'd suggest finding a new house in an area where there are no
restrictions. Tell your real estate agent that this is a requirement.
The more people who do this (as I did) the more chance the developers
building these crappy overcrowded developments and creating the
restrictions might get a clue that not everyone wants that crap.

This is also one of the problems contributing to all the lard-ass
children with zero physical skills. All these crappy developments
provide no room for kids to actually run around and get exercise and
develop physical skills. I grew up on a few heavily wooded acres with a
stream running through.

I hopped around the rocks and climbed the trees and whatnot. I see far
too many kids whose sole outdoor activity options are a swing in a 20'
square yard and the early years, before they could potentially go to an
area park on their own are the most critical years for developing these
skills.

Pete C.

While did the same thing as you suggested -- found a big enough house
and avoided any developments with covenants -- not everyone can afford
that.

i
--

Of course not, but they should try if not for shop space then for the
sake of any children to help keep them from becoming physically-retarded
lard-asses. Children who do not have opportunities to run around and
climb and do activities that develop mechanical and spatial skills
really do end up physically-retarded. I've seen it and it's scary.

I suppose this isn't a problem for producing compliant worker drones
though...

Pete C.

Before we get totally sidetracked with "the downfall of western
civilization" :-) let me ask a few more questions...

For one, the garage is just not an option because my cars are in there (it
would take hours to explain how anal I am about cars) and even if I had them
covered I would be literally like 6" away from a most-likely-flammable car
cover running power tools...

I guess my big question at this point is, is there no one here that welds in
their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

thanks,
Jeff

"Ignoramus12686" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:30:24 GMT, Leo Lichtman
wrote:

"Ignoramus12686" wrote: (clip) Grinding is somewhat worse, chop saw is
way
too loud. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOTE: It is possible to start a fire with the stream of sparks from a
grinder. I once actually set fire to the shop coat I was WEARING. Also,
plan your work so you never finish welding and then close up and leave
the
shop. It is possible for sparks to fall somewhere and start a
smouldering
fire.

Yeppers, I burned a hole in my pants once with a angle grinder.

I would definitely recommend to keep all grinding equipment in the
garage. Too much fine dust, sparks, noise etc.

i

Loud: chop saw, cheap air compressors, air tools, import angle
grinders.
Quiet: bandsaw, old piston air compressor with input filter & belted to
run slower, some electric grinders.

Metal chips tend to stick to rubber-soled shoes and rugs.

I do all my welding and a lot of my louder, messier metalworking out in
the driveway. My biker/truck driver/construction worker neighbors
haven't complained yet.

Jim W

The main thing I am hoping to do is to satisfy my "car cravings" during the
4-5 months of winter weather that we have where I cannot drive the cars. In
the summer I could take the cars out, but when there is snow on the ground
my babies are locked in their insulated, heated cocoon :-) So basically,
I'm back to the basement.

I will be welding mild steel, stainless and aluminum using pure argon as the
shielding gas. If limited to these materials, does anybody know for sure if
there are any toxic concerns?

Thanks,
Jeff

"Ignoramus12686" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:18:30 -0600, Jeff B wrote:
Before we get totally sidetracked with "the downfall of western
civilization" :-) let me ask a few more questions...

For one, the garage is just not an option because my cars are in there
(it
would take hours to explain how anal I am about cars) and even if I had
them
covered I would be literally like 6" away from a most-likely-flammable
car
cover running power tools...

Can you take your car out of the garage while you do your grinding?

I guess my big question at this point is, is there no one here that welds
in
their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

there is a guy in sci.engr.joining.welding who welds in his
kitchen. It is possible. I do not think that there is any harm in tig
welding steel. I am not so sure if the same can be said about welding
all other metals.

i

thanks,
Jeff

"Ignoramus12686" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:30:24 GMT, Leo Lichtman
wrote:

"Ignoramus12686" wrote: (clip) Grinding is somewhat worse, chop saw is
way
too loud. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOTE: It is possible to start a fire with the stream of sparks from a
grinder. I once actually set fire to the shop coat I was WEARING.
Also,
plan your work so you never finish welding and then close up and leave
the
shop. It is possible for sparks to fall somewhere and start a
smouldering
fire.

Yeppers, I burned a hole in my pants once with a angle grinder.

I would definitely recommend to keep all grinding equipment in the
garage. Too much fine dust, sparks, noise etc.

i





--

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:18:30 -0600, "Jeff B" wrote:

Before we get totally sidetracked with "the downfall of western
civilization" :-) let me ask a few more questions...

For one, the garage is just not an option because my cars are in there (it
would take hours to explain how anal I am about cars) and even if I had them
covered I would be literally like 6" away from a most-likely-flammable car
cover running power tools...

I guess my big question at this point is, is there no one here that welds in
their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

thanks,
Jeff

I did, some years ago.

ALL welding and brazing processes produce fumes. TIG is certainly
far less fumerous than stick or fluxcore wirefeed, but when metal is
hot enough to melt there will be fumes and vapors. The manuals that
come with welders all emphasize good ventilation as mandatory. That
is by no means to say that welding can't or shouldn't be done
indoors, merely that adequate ventilation is necessary if you do.

I made an upflow exhaust hood over my welding table, vented to
outdoors thru a dryer vent. The trick is to get a blower that is
acceptably quiet. The squirrelcage blower out of a small furnace is
pretty quiet when run at low speed. Small blowers that move enough
air to do any good are noisy because they have to run fast to move any
air. Blower speed = blower noise.

the summer I could take the cars out, but when there is snow on the ground
my babies are locked in their insulated, heated cocoon :-) So basically,
I'm back to the basement.

Can you find a place to store one of the cars in the winter so you have
some space to work in the garage?

FWIW, I do all my metalworking (milling, turning, drilling, sawing,
grinding, sanding, TIG welding) in my 11' x 17' garage next to my current
covered project car. While it may not be optimal, I've had no problems
setting anything on fire or damaging the car. Having said that, (and
assuming that you're comfortable with the chip production) the things I
would feel comfortable doing in the basement would be using the mill, lathe,
drill press and TIG welder. Everything else is loud, although you could
save that work for a time when no one's around or sleeping. The loudest
machine in my shop is the compressor, but I've got a cheap unit. A nicer
compressor would be quieter and may be acceptable. I wouldn't MIG or stick
weld in my basement.

You WILL get chips in the house. It's damn near impossible to keep your
clothes, shoes, etc. completely free of them. I track them in from the
garage despite my best efforts - not a lot of them, but enough for me to
look sheepish when my wife reaches down and picks one up off of the kitchen
floor...

I would think it advisable to vent the room if possible. In order for
family members not to wrinkle their noses at the smells (lubricating oil,
argon, brake clean, etc...) wafting their way upstairs, I'd try to run at
least one vent to the outside. I don't know your house, but I'm assuming
that's not a big deal to do... I'd paint the floor to minimize dust and
ease clean up. Keep it clean and you'll be fine.

Peter


"Jeff B" wrote in message
news:KDraf.2476$IC.536@dukeread07...
Before we get totally sidetracked with "the downfall of western
civilization" :-) let me ask a few more questions...

For one, the garage is just not an option because my cars are in there (it
would take hours to explain how anal I am about cars) and even if I had
them covered I would be literally like 6" away from a
most-likely-flammable car cover running power tools...

I guess my big question at this point is, is there no one here that welds
in their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

thanks,
Jeff

"Ignoramus12686" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:30:24 GMT, Leo Lichtman
wrote:

"Ignoramus12686" wrote: (clip) Grinding is somewhat worse, chop saw is
way
too loud. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOTE: It is possible to start a fire with the stream of sparks from a
grinder. I once actually set fire to the shop coat I was WEARING.
Also,
plan your work so you never finish welding and then close up and leave
the
shop. It is possible for sparks to fall somewhere and start a
smouldering
fire.

Yeppers, I burned a hole in my pants once with a angle grinder.

I would definitely recommend to keep all grinding equipment in the
garage. Too much fine dust, sparks, noise etc.

i

Chuck Sherwood wrote:
the summer I could take the cars out, but when there is snow on the ground
my babies are locked in their insulated, heated cocoon :-) So basically,
I'm back to the basement.


Can you find a place to store one of the cars in the winter so you have
some space to work in the garage?

Ah come one guys, he doesn't WANT to use the garage.

Jeff B wrote:


I guess my big question at this point is, is there no one here that welds
in
their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

thanks,
Jeff

I have welded in a basement, only to fabricate some steel shelving.
TIG welding might not be too bad as far as toxicity, but no welding is
odorless. Trust me, with no ducting you will smell it upstairs in your
living area. I also have a "thing" about compressed gas cylinders in the
house, even though they may be inert.

I think this is a great opportunity to find a shop, garage, or studio space
to rent. Because I don't think you or your family will be happy with what
you end up with, even if you do convince yourself and her that it is safe,
which I don't think it is.

Grinding is filthy, chop saws are filthy - both cut by disintegrating
themselves into nasty tiny particles of abrasive which you can never sweep
up clean enough to be able to avoid tracking them into the house. You can't
really use dust collection systems because they are designed for sawdust,
not sparks.

I would look around for a fellow metalworker - here in Austin, TX, I have
seen a number of $200 spaces for rent on Craig's List, and in fact I am
looking at one this weekend. There are also a lot of racers in town that
are looking to share garage space. Lastly, there are a couple of storage
space places that allow for car work in their spaces - call around and ask.

Good Luck!


"Jeff B" wrote in message
news:Xxqaf.2461$IC.759@dukeread07...
I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate
to this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor
concrete and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be
a major concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I
could use it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I
guess before I go on too much more I should mention what I actually want
to do in it! It will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned
about excessive noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be
prepping/making the pieces that will be welded in this room as well. This
means grinding, drilling, cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going
to this room, so hopefully the mess would stay enclosed in there, but
basically I'm looking for a real world sanity from anybody else that has
done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the room twice a week, can I actually pull
this off without ruining my house? If anyone else has built something like
this, I'd love to see some pictures. I am just trying to prepare my "case"
for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm going to start welding in the
basement, but don't worry, the whole house won't be covered in aluminum
shavings" :-)

Thanks
Jeff

Can you find a place to store one of the cars in the winter so you have
some space to work in the garage?

Ah come one guys, he doesn't WANT to use the garage.

But is welding in the basement really an option?
I don't think so, so its time to consider alternatives.

He doesn't drive the cars in the winter so find a place
to store them and use the garage as a workshop.

Emmo wrote:
I think this is a great opportunity to find a shop, garage, or studio space
to rent. Because I don't think you or your family will be happy with what
you end up with, even if you do convince yourself and her that it is safe,
which I don't think it is.


I have that, and there is no substitute for a shop at home.
I have a nice 25x40 steel shop with all the tools and machines that will
fit, along with 2 race cars and storage areas for the trailers etc. It's
30 minutes from my house, but it might as well be in the next state. I
get at most 7 hours/week of shop time, plus 2-3 hours drive time.

But what you might consider is off-site storage of your collector cars,
unless they are works-in-progress. that would likely be cheaper than
shop space.

Chuck Sherwood wrote:

Can you find a place to store one of the cars in the winter so you have
some space to work in the garage?

Ah come one guys, he doesn't WANT to use the garage.

But is welding in the basement really an option?
I don't think so, so its time to consider alternatives.

He doesn't drive the cars in the winter so find a place
to store them and use the garage as a workshop.

Considering the incredible confined spaces that they regularly weld in
(with a vent duct and a respirator) when building ships, I would think
that a basement is certainly an option.

Probably a decent kitchen vent hood over the welding bench (presuming
relatively small parts) ducted outside and a fresh air intake on the
other side of the room should be ok. You don't want so much ventilation
that you pull away the argon at the weld.

Pete C.

Ignoramus12686 wrote:

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:45:47 GMT, Pete C. wrote:
Ignoramus12686 wrote:

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:31:07 GMT, Pete C. wrote:
Jeff B wrote:

I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate to
this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor concrete
and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be a major
concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I could use
it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I guess before I
go on too much more I should mention what I actually want to do in it! It
will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned about excessive
noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be prepping/making the pieces
that will be welded in this room as well. This means grinding, drilling,
cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going to this room, so hopefully
the mess would stay enclosed in there, but basically I'm looking for a real
world sanity from anybody else that has done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the
room twice a week, can I actually pull this off without ruining my house?
If anyone else has built something like this, I'd love to see some pictures.
I am just trying to prepare my "case" for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm
going to start welding in the basement, but don't worry, the whole house
won't be covered in aluminum shavings" :-)

Thanks
Jeff

I'd suggest finding a new house in an area where there are no
restrictions. Tell your real estate agent that this is a requirement.
The more people who do this (as I did) the more chance the developers
building these crappy overcrowded developments and creating the
restrictions might get a clue that not everyone wants that crap.

This is also one of the problems contributing to all the lard-ass
children with zero physical skills. All these crappy developments
provide no room for kids to actually run around and get exercise and
develop physical skills. I grew up on a few heavily wooded acres with a
stream running through.

I hopped around the rocks and climbed the trees and whatnot. I see far
too many kids whose sole outdoor activity options are a swing in a 20'
square yard and the early years, before they could potentially go to an
area park on their own are the most critical years for developing these
skills.

Pete C.

While did the same thing as you suggested -- found a big enough house
and avoided any developments with covenants -- not everyone can afford
that.

i

Of course not, but they should try if not for shop space then for the
sake of any children to help keep them from becoming physically-retarded
lard-asses. Children who do not have opportunities to run around and
climb and do activities that develop mechanical and spatial skills
really do end up physically-retarded. I've seen it and it's scary.

It is very scary. TV also plays a major role.

I'm not buying that argument. TV fills the void created by the lack of
any outdoor space to play. TV was certainly around when I was growing up
(35++ now) and I didn't watch that much. I was far more interested in
climbing 70'+ trees, blowing up frogs and building flame throwers.


I suppose this isn't a problem for producing compliant worker drones
though...

Well, it is definitely not a problem for producing gullible
consumers...

Same thing, need to be a mindless worker drone to get the money to be a
gullible consumer.

Pete C.



i

I guess my big question at this point is, is there no one here that welds
in
their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

thanks,
Jeff


Do you have a good way to carry the 200 lb tanks down the stairs?

AFAIK, you should be pretty safe unless you're welding some exotic
materials, or galvanized parts. I would guess the dust would be very hard to
control though.

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:04:06 -0600, "Jeff B" wrote:

I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate to
this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor concrete
and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be a major
concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I could use
it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up).

Way too small for eventual uses, but it's a good start if that's all
you have. But there are a lot of considerations. I have to go to
work so I'll touch on the points and they can be hashed out later, but
here's the basics:

I guess before I
go on too much more I should mention what I actually want to do in it! It
will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned about excessive
noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be prepping/making the pieces
that will be welded in this room as well. This means grinding, drilling,
cutting, etc.

If you do any welding, you need a fresh air makeup source
(preferably heated or with a heat exchanger if you live anywhere north
of Florida - and even there it gets chilly. Or air conditioned in the
summer.

And you MUST provide a vent hood over your welding table that
exhausts to the outside. Even if you have a variable speed fan so you
turn it down while doing relatively clean TIG welding, you still
produce fumes of nasty stuff that have to be removed. Oxy-Acetylene
MIG Fluxcore or Stick all make varying levels of bad stuff in the
smoke that has to be removed, and the metal fumes in the weld smoke
can cause severe health problems - zinc fume fever is just one.

Any ventilation blowers should have another control switch outside,
so they can be used by the FD for smoke ventilation in case of a fire.
The fan needs to be remotely mounted and the power and control wires
all run outside the extreme fire hazard area, so it keeps working.

I won't have any air ducts going to this room, so hopefully
the mess would stay enclosed in there, but basically I'm looking for a real
world sanity from anybody else that has done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the
room twice a week, can I actually pull this off without ruining my house?

Yes - but you'll need to do so much prep work to build a welding or
machining workshop under the house and do it safely that it would be a
WHOLE lot easier to sell that house and buy one further out of town
that does not have the restrictions on a shop outbuilding in the back
yard, or to build a new house from scratch (or a total
almost-ground-up remodel) that was planned for that use in the first
place. I'm thinking a concrete slab floor between the basement and 1st
floor as the ultimate firestop.

To get around the codes somewhat, you can just build an addition to
your existing garage to make it a 4-car, or add a second two-car
garage on the other side. After it's all built and the permits are
passed as a garage, then you can turn it into a workshop. (Creative
Interpretation.) ;-) Or go up - make it a 2-story detached garage
and you have the whole upstairs.

With a separate shop building 100 feet from the house you don't have
to be nearly as paranoid about life safety, because you don't have
people sleeping upstairs. If it burns down or blows up it can be a
serious annoyance, not a tragedy when a few people die.


Fire Safety: You need outside windows from all main basement rooms
for ventilation so the fire can go out instead of only up - or worse,
the heat builds until the floor above flashes over.

You need automatic fire sprinklers inside all basement rooms, a
water-curtain sprinkler head over the windows so the flames pouring
out the basement windows don't catch the house on fire. And an
outside sprinkler booster hookup for the pumper. This way if they
decide it's too dangerous to go inside, they can let the sprinklers
keep working on it.

Lots of extinguishers, including a bucket of Class D powder on hand
in case you ever machine magnesium or other highly reactive metals.
And a few strategically placed 1-1/2" hose racks with a fog nozzle by
the doors might prove useful if you can jump on a fire while it's
still small.

NOTE: You always put the fire stuff near the Exit door - that way
you have the exit behind you when you decide to fight or flee. Or you
try to fight then change your mind as it gets worse.

And you need an outside walk-up or storm door access to the basement
(two ways to get in would be even better) so the FD can get inside
safely to fight the fire without going through the house. And at
least one large access door helps when you want to get equipment and
supplies in and out, too.

You need a 2-hour rated ceiling and walls in all the basement rooms
(double 1/2" drywall or better), and a 2-hour commercial fire door to
the upstairs so the fire doesn't spread. You need proper fire dampers
in all vent and duct penetrations, and firestop collars on all
conduits and pipes.

You need heat (rate of rise) type fire detectors in the shop rooms,
and smoke detectors in the hallway headed upstairs - that way the
smokes shouldn't give false alarms as often, they are a door away from
the welding or paint spraying. The alarms need to be linked to a
burglar alarm with a dialer, so even if you work in the shop and leave
for the evening and something is smoldering, the FD gets called while
it's still small.

You need to keep all larger quantities of flammable gases and
liquids outside the house in a steel storage shed, including your
welding gas bottles - The odds are very low, but Google the terms
'acetylene deflagration' sometime and you'll get an eye full - the
bottle just decides to go BOOM!... There shouldn't be any more
flammable stuff stored inside than you plan to use that day.

And on a general basis, you will always have potential moisture
control problems in a basement - you may need a dehumidifier that can
run 24/7, and you may (depending on the water table and the
waterproofing of the basement walls and floor) be fighting a
never-ending battle against water intrusion and dampness.

You'll need to do a lot of soundproofing in the basement ceiling.
And any ductwork or pipes can still carry the noise upstairs.

If anyone else has built something like this, I'd love to see some pictures.
I am just trying to prepare my "case" for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm
going to start welding in the basement, but don't worry, the whole house
won't be covered in aluminum shavings" :-)

Fine aluminum and steel shavings and dusts can catch fire all by
themselves, especially if you mix in a little sawdust. Add in some
oily rags...

This is why you normally do that work in a garage at home - because
by all modern building codes an attached garage is isolated from the
rest of the house by fire rated walls and a fire rated solid door,
there are ventilation ports at the floor and ceiling levels to prevent
fume buildups, there is a big door for easy access...

I gotta go, more tonight. I'll put out the verbal flames then -
probably just as many from the people who think I'm being overly
paranoid as from the people thinking I haven't gone far enough in my
safety considerations, but that's to be expected. It's that "There
are Old pilots, and Bold pilots, but few Old Bold pilots..." thing.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

In article Xxqaf.2461$IC.759@dukeread07, Jeff B says...

I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

Put the shop in the garage. Put the cars outside.

Stop asking your wife about this stuff. Makes it look
like you just not serious.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

--Do yourself a favor; assuming there's nothing unmovable on the
floor above, put a hatch in there so you can lift big stuff in and out
with a winch.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Doodle doodle dee
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Wubba wubba wubba...
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

I am certainly not an exert on welding, but consider that gases do not
need to be toxic to be dangerous. We have sensors for CO2, but we do
not sense low O2. N2 at least has killed by displacing O2, by the time
the victim starts to feel dizzy, it's too late, and other inert gases
might be similarly dangerous. Please check carefully before doing TIG
in a confined space. At a mimimum, use good active ventilation. If you
plan to work on small items, a fume hood might be helpful.

Bill

Jeff, no need to try to explain about your cars. I'm pretty anal about
mine also, as I'm sure some of the other guys are. BTW, what kind do
you have?

Be aware also that when TIG welding you may trash any TV reception. I
have a shop behind my house and when TIG welding the cable TV is pretty
well in a snow storm. My kids have told me that the neighbors have
called to ask if we were having cable problems. The calls always seem
to occur while I'm welding...

"Jeff B" wrote in news:Xxqaf.2461$IC.759@dukeread07:


snip

Jeff,
Some fire prevention things to mention:
A) Use 2 hour fire-rated drywall in the room, including the ceiling.
- If something bad happens, the 2 hours can give you time to get
something done about it before you lose your house.
B) Use a fire-rated door on the room.
- Same reason
C) Use the commercial type glue-on baseboard molding, and make sure it is
sealed to the floor and wall good (non-flammable silicone maybe?)
- This helps to prevent any hot dust/sparks from getting under a wall,
or behind the baseboard where it would have the highest chance of
starting a fire.
D) Use aluminum flashing or sheet, or stainless, to line the walls around
your welding area, and your grinding area. Make sure this too is sealed
to the walls with non-flammable sealer. Make sure it overlaps the
baseboard molding so hot embers cannot sit on top of the baseboard lip.
E) Have a larger, GOOD, fire extinguisher mounted at chest level near the
exit of the room. - Check the charge once a month.
F) You will need some type of ventilation for welding, there ARE bad
fumes from any type of welding. Make sure that the ducting outside the
wall is far enough away, or high enough over the roofline that a fire in
that room will not be escorted to the house above via the duct. You could
also purchase a fire damper for the intake and exhaust so that in the
event of a fire, these close and help shut off the air supply to the
fire. See- http://www.greenheck.com/pdf/kitchen...v2Sept2001.pdf for
a kitchen hood with this built-in.

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:04:06 -0600, "Jeff B" wrote:

I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate
to
this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor concrete
and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be a major
concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I could
use
it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up).

Yes - but you'll need to do so much prep work to build a welding or
machining workshop under the house and do it safely that it would be a
WHOLE lot easier to sell that house and buy one further out of town
that does not have the restrictions on a shop outbuilding in the back
yard, or to build a new house from scratch (or a total
almost-ground-up remodel) that was planned for that use in the first
place. I'm thinking a concrete slab floor between the basement and 1st
floor as the ultimate firestop.
snip

Great post Bruce. Finally, someone has shed the bright light of real safety
concerns upon this problem. I agree with the others who suggested moving
your car/cars to an off-site facility during the winter months for storage.

The only thing I would add to Bruce's post is: think about your insurance.
Doing any welding (or other machine work, for that matter) in your basement
will very likely invalidate any homeowner's insurance you might have. It may
also invalidate your life insurance in the event that you kill yourself or a
family member.

- Michael

For sound control, look into resilient z-channel attachement for the
sheet rock, especially the ceiling. There are also special sound
attenuation blankets you can use in the rafters.

You will also need to look into air scrubbers to take care of any
smoke generated. There will be smoke. You can probably use a smaller
scrubber if you do your grinding and welding under a hood of some
sort.

There are methods of arresting sparks from grinders but I'm not very
familiar with them. You will also have to give some thought to make-up
air so you don't suffocate. Minimally you need CO detectors. This of
course doesn't protect you against displacing all of the oxygen in the
room with CO2 or Argon.

It's probably going to cost almost as much to convert your basement as
it would to build a garage of equal size.

Cheers,

Kelley

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:04:06 -0600, "Jeff B" wrote:

I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate to
this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor concrete
and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be a major
concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I could use
it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I guess before I
go on too much more I should mention what I actually want to do in it! It
will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned about excessive
noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be prepping/making the pieces
that will be welded in this room as well. This means grinding, drilling,
cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going to this room, so hopefully
the mess would stay enclosed in there, but basically I'm looking for a real
world sanity from anybody else that has done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the
room twice a week, can I actually pull this off without ruining my house?
If anyone else has built something like this, I'd love to see some pictures.
I am just trying to prepare my "case" for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm
going to start welding in the basement, but don't worry, the whole house
won't be covered in aluminum shavings" :-)

Thanks
Jeff

Welding in an open shop is messy and hazardous. Welding in a basement is
just plain stupid.

Anthony wrote:
"Jeff B" wrote in news:Xxqaf.2461$IC.759@dukeread07:


snip

Jeff,
Some fire prevention things to mention:
A) Use 2 hour fire-rated drywall in the room, including the ceiling.
- If something bad happens, the 2 hours can give you time to get
something done about it before you lose your house.
B) Use a fire-rated door on the room.
- Same reason

Welding in my open shop is not messy, and with reasonable safety
precautions, not particularly hazardous. Welding in a basement can be
stupid, but certainly doesn't have to be.

Peter


"Tim Killian" wrote in message
...
Welding in an open shop is messy and hazardous. Welding in a basement is
just plain stupid.

Anthony wrote:
"Jeff B" wrote in news:Xxqaf.2461$IC.759@dukeread07:


snip

Jeff,
Some fire prevention things to mention:
A) Use 2 hour fire-rated drywall in the room, including the ceiling.
- If something bad happens, the 2 hours can give you time to get
something done about it before you lose your house.
B) Use a fire-rated door on the room.
- Same reason

Well, now that you've gotten a consensus of opinion, your decision should be
easy!

Peter


"Jeff B" wrote in message
news:Xxqaf.2461$IC.759@dukeread07...
I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate
to this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor
concrete and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be
a major concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I
could use it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I
guess before I go on too much more I should mention what I actually want
to do in it! It will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned
about excessive noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be
prepping/making the pieces that will be welded in this room as well. This
means grinding, drilling, cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going
to this room, so hopefully the mess would stay enclosed in there, but
basically I'm looking for a real world sanity from anybody else that has
done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the room twice a week, can I actually pull
this off without ruining my house? If anyone else has built something like
this, I'd love to see some pictures. I am just trying to prepare my "case"
for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm going to start welding in the
basement, but don't worry, the whole house won't be covered in aluminum
shavings" :-)

Thanks
Jeff

Kelley Mascher wrote:

For sound control, look into resilient z-channel attachement for the
sheet rock, especially the ceiling. There are also special sound
attenuation blankets you can use in the rafters.

You will also need to look into air scrubbers to take care of any
smoke generated. There will be smoke. You can probably use a smaller
scrubber if you do your grinding and welding under a hood of some
sort.

There are methods of arresting sparks from grinders but I'm not very
familiar with them. You will also have to give some thought to make-up
air so you don't suffocate. Minimally you need CO detectors. This of
course doesn't protect you against displacing all of the oxygen in the
room with CO2 or Argon.

It's probably going to cost almost as much to convert your basement as
it would to build a garage of equal size.

Cheers,

Kelley

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:04:06 -0600, "Jeff B" wrote:

I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate to
this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor concrete
and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be a major
concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I could use
it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I guess before I
go on too much more I should mention what I actually want to do in it! It
will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned about excessive
noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be prepping/making the pieces
that will be welded in this room as well. This means grinding, drilling,
cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going to this room, so hopefully
the mess would stay enclosed in there, but basically I'm looking for a real
world sanity from anybody else that has done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the
room twice a week, can I actually pull this off without ruining my house?
If anyone else has built something like this, I'd love to see some pictures.
I am just trying to prepare my "case" for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm
going to start welding in the basement, but don't worry, the whole house
won't be covered in aluminum shavings" :-)

Thanks
Jeff


While displacing oxygen with the Argon is possible and you certainly
need proper ventilation, you also need to look realistically at the
actual risk. If you're doing small time TIG you probably don't have a
huge tank of Argon, I have an 80cf tank. A 12' x 15' room is 180 sq. ft.
so if you dumped an entire 80cf tank you could only displace a little
less than 6" off the floor. Could be a problem for a cat or small dog,
but pretty unlikely to be a true risk to a human. Even a big 220cf tank
would only do like 16" off the floor. In real world use you're not going
to come anywhere close to dumping that much Argon in an evenings
project. If the basement is fully underground I would recommend a low
level exhaust vent intake to prevent a continuing buildup of Argon.

Pete C.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...

While displacing oxygen with the Argon is possible and you certainly
need proper ventilation, you also need to look realistically at the
actual risk.
snip
In real world use you're not going to come anywhere close to dumping
that much Argon in an evenings project.

Don't forget that, in the real world, cylinders have been known to leak.

Excellent posting Bruce.

DeepDiver wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...

While displacing oxygen with the Argon is possible and you certainly
need proper ventilation, you also need to look realistically at the
actual risk.
snip
In real world use you're not going to come anywhere close to dumping
that much Argon in an evenings project.

Don't forget that, in the real world, cylinders have been known to leak.

Yes, but my point was that even dumping a full 220cf cylinder will not
create a hazard to humans. I am making the fairly safe assumption that a
hobby welder will not be storing a dozen leaking 220cf Argon tanks in
their work area though.

Pete C.

"Jeff B" wrote in message
news:Xxqaf.2461$IC.759@dukeread07...
I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate
to this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor
concrete and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be
a major concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I
could use it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I
guess before I go on too much more I should mention what I actually want
to do in it! It will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned
about excessive noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be
prepping/making the pieces that will be welded in this room as well. This
means grinding, drilling, cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going
to this room, so hopefully the mess would stay enclosed in there, but
basically I'm looking for a real world sanity from anybody else that has
done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the room twice a week, can I actually pull
this off without ruining my house? If anyone else has built something like
this, I'd love to see some pictures. I am just trying to prepare my "case"
for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm going to start welding in the
basement, but don't worry, the whole house won't be covered in aluminum
shavings" :-)

We're in a townhome with similar garage space limitations and most of my
shop is in the basement. Lathe, vertical & horizontal mills, T&C grinder,
surface grinder, 4x6 bandsaw, shaper, tool carts, work benches, etc. Noise
hasn't been a problem yet - at least the neighbors haven't complained in
over 5 years, though my wife objects to hammering at 2:00 am. I wouldn't
feel at all comfortable welding down there, especially with no ventilation.

If you proceed with dry walling in a shop, make sure that you plan
adequately for a multitude of electrical outlets, both 110 and 220 VAC and
plan on plenty of lighting fixtures. I'd put 110 VAC outlets about every 4
feet with 220 VAC availabel every 8 to 12 feet.

Mike

I've no clue about what quantities of gas are released during TIG welding
but would note that the release of large volumes of inert gas in an enclosed
space can result in oxygen deprivation. Not toxic, but it will kill you
nonetheless, or at least impair your judgement if enough gets released.

Did't you mention in the OP that there is no ventilation in your basement?

Mike

"Jeff B" wrote in message news:S_raf.2478$IC.28@dukeread07...
The main thing I am hoping to do is to satisfy my "car cravings" during
the 4-5 months of winter weather that we have where I cannot drive the
cars. In the summer I could take the cars out, but when there is snow on
the ground my babies are locked in their insulated, heated cocoon :-) So
basically, I'm back to the basement.

I will be welding mild steel, stainless and aluminum using pure argon as
the shielding gas. If limited to these materials, does anybody know for
sure if there are any toxic concerns?

Thanks,
Jeff

"Ignoramus12686" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:18:30 -0600, Jeff B wrote:
Before we get totally sidetracked with "the downfall of western
civilization" :-) let me ask a few more questions...

For one, the garage is just not an option because my cars are in there
(it
would take hours to explain how anal I am about cars) and even if I had
them
covered I would be literally like 6" away from a most-likely-flammable
car
cover running power tools...

Can you take your car out of the garage while you do your grinding?

I guess my big question at this point is, is there no one here that
welds in
their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

there is a guy in sci.engr.joining.welding who welds in his
kitchen. It is possible. I do not think that there is any harm in tig
welding steel. I am not so sure if the same can be said about welding
all other metals.

i

thanks,
Jeff

"Ignoramus12686" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:30:24 GMT, Leo Lichtman
wrote:

"Ignoramus12686" wrote: (clip) Grinding is somewhat worse, chop saw
is
way
too loud. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOTE: It is possible to start a fire with the stream of sparks from a
grinder. I once actually set fire to the shop coat I was WEARING.
Also,
plan your work so you never finish welding and then close up and leave
the
shop. It is possible for sparks to fall somewhere and start a
smouldering
fire.

Yeppers, I burned a hole in my pants once with a angle grinder.

I would definitely recommend to keep all grinding equipment in the
garage. Too much fine dust, sparks, noise etc.

i





--

My solution to the dirt/ chips problem is an old pair of boots that are
kept at the entry to the basement, used in the basement, and never worn
in the house.

Dan

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Ignoramus12686 wrote:

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:31:07 GMT, Pete C. wrote:
Jeff B wrote:

I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it
looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in
my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could
allocate to
this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor
concrete
and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be a
major
concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I
could use
it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I guess
before I
go on too much more I should mention what I actually want to do in it!
It
will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned about
excessive
noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be prepping/making the
pieces
that will be welded in this room as well. This means grinding,
drilling,
cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going to this room, so
hopefully
the mess would stay enclosed in there, but basically I'm looking for a
real
world sanity from anybody else that has done this. If I'm
shop-vaccing the
room twice a week, can I actually pull this off without ruining my
house?
If anyone else has built something like this, I'd love to see some
pictures.
I am just trying to prepare my "case" for when I tell the wife "oh
yeah, I'm
going to start welding in the basement, but don't worry, the whole
house
won't be covered in aluminum shavings" :-)

Thanks
Jeff

I'd suggest finding a new house in an area where there are no
restrictions. Tell your real estate agent that this is a requirement.
The more people who do this (as I did) the more chance the developers
building these crappy overcrowded developments and creating the
restrictions might get a clue that not everyone wants that crap.

This is also one of the problems contributing to all the lard-ass
children with zero physical skills. All these crappy developments
provide no room for kids to actually run around and get exercise and
develop physical skills. I grew up on a few heavily wooded acres with a
stream running through.

I hopped around the rocks and climbed the trees and whatnot. I see far
too many kids whose sole outdoor activity options are a swing in a 20'
square yard and the early years, before they could potentially go to an
area park on their own are the most critical years for developing these
skills.

Pete C.

While did the same thing as you suggested -- found a big enough house
and avoided any developments with covenants -- not everyone can afford
that.

i
--

Of course not, but they should try if not for shop space then for the
sake of any children to help keep them from becoming physically-retarded
lard-asses. Children who do not have opportunities to run around and
climb and do activities that develop mechanical and spatial skills
really do end up physically-retarded. I've seen it and it's scary.

I suppose this isn't a problem for producing compliant worker drones
though...

Pete C.

Not all of us look forward to the joys of external home maintenance, like
lawn mowing, snow shoveling, external painting, and roof replacement, to
name a few that spring to mind. That's why my wife and I have lived in a
condo or townhome for 30 years or so. No kids to worry about so no chance
of us producing compliant worker drones. No other kids in the immediate
neighborhood either, which suits me fine - in fact I see it as a bonus.

Even with a full basement, shop space is starting to run a bit short now,
though, and it's occurred to me that the neighbor's townhome could be
converted into a nice dedicated shop.

Mike

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:21:28 -0800, Kelley Mascher
wrote:

For sound control, look into resilient z-channel attachement for the
sheet rock, especially the ceiling. There are also special sound
attenuation blankets you can use in the rafters.

You will also need to look into air scrubbers to take care of any
smoke generated. There will be smoke. You can probably use a smaller
scrubber if you do your grinding and welding under a hood of some
sort.

There are methods of arresting sparks from grinders but I'm not very
familiar with them. You will also have to give some thought to make-up
air so you don't suffocate. Minimally you need CO detectors. This of
course doesn't protect you against displacing all of the oxygen in the
room with CO2 or Argon.

Flow of argon when TIG welding is typically about 20 cu ft/hr. A 12
x 15 room has over 1000 cu ft of air in it. Three hours of
uninterrupted welding wouldn't displace 10% of the air in the room.
It'd get kinda hot in there without ventilation, though!

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:18:30 -0600, "Jeff B" wrote:

Before we get totally sidetracked with "the downfall of western
civilization" :-) let me ask a few more questions...

For one, the garage is just not an option because my cars are in there (it
would take hours to explain how anal I am about cars) and even if I had them
covered I would be literally like 6" away from a most-likely-flammable car
cover running power tools...

I guess my big question at this point is, is there no one here that welds in
their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

thanks,
Jeff

Jeff..with a shop of that size..not particularly big or small..it
would be very easy to put a welding area in a corner..with a homebrew
fume hood, and using a squirrel cage fan...suck the fumes out doors.
Grinding can be done in a corner, ..simply put up sheetrock on both
sides of the grinding area, and use a grit trap hooked to a vaccum
cleaner. A milling machine such as a bridgeport goes neatly in
another corner, a lathe along one wall.., workbenchs between...very
very doable. Put up a layer of fiberglass insulation, or egg crates
on the ceiling for sound deadening..and Id suspect you could run a
metal chop saw down there, if the family is sleeping on the 2nd floor.

Its not rocket science and folks have been making do with basements
for a very long time.

Gunner


"Ignoramus12686" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:30:24 GMT, Leo Lichtman
wrote:

"Ignoramus12686" wrote: (clip) Grinding is somewhat worse, chop saw is
way
too loud. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOTE: It is possible to start a fire with the stream of sparks from a
grinder. I once actually set fire to the shop coat I was WEARING. Also,
plan your work so you never finish welding and then close up and leave
the
shop. It is possible for sparks to fall somewhere and start a
smouldering
fire.

Yeppers, I burned a hole in my pants once with a angle grinder.

I would definitely recommend to keep all grinding equipment in the
garage. Too much fine dust, sparks, noise etc.

i



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner