On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:04:17 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Chuck Sherwood wrote:

Can you find a place to store one of the cars in the winter so you have
some space to work in the garage?

Ah come one guys, he doesn't WANT to use the garage.

But is welding in the basement really an option?
I don't think so, so its time to consider alternatives.

He doesn't drive the cars in the winter so find a place
to store them and use the garage as a workshop.

Considering the incredible confined spaces that they regularly weld in
(with a vent duct and a respirator) when building ships, I would think
that a basement is certainly an option.

Probably a decent kitchen vent hood over the welding bench (presuming
relatively small parts) ducted outside and a fresh air intake on the
other side of the room should be ok. You don't want so much ventilation
that you pull away the argon at the weld.

Pete C.

Go by the local Habitat for Humanity outlet and pick up a rangehood
for a few bucks. Smoke rises..doesnt take much suction to pull welding
smoke outside.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:39:56 GMT, Ignoramus12686
wrote:

I hopped around the rocks and climbed the trees and whatnot. I see far
too many kids whose sole outdoor activity options are a swing in a 20'
square yard and the early years, before they could potentially go to an
area park on their own are the most critical years for developing these
skills.

Pete C.

While did the same thing as you suggested -- found a big enough house
and avoided any developments with covenants -- not everyone can afford
that.

Werent you commenting not long ago about not being allowed to build a
small shed?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Tim Killian wrote in
:

Welding in an open shop is messy and hazardous. Welding in a basement
is just plain stupid.


I'll have to disagree. Is it the best situation to be in when welding?
No, of course not. Can it be done in a manner safe to life and property?
Most definately it can. It is up to the person doing the work to ensure
that the area is safe, and precautions are taken. Welding in a room with
plenty of flamables, no spark precautions, no fire extinguisher, and no
ventilation....IS stupid. Welding in a room designed to be welded
in...is NOT stupid.


--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:40:26 GMT, Anthony
wrote:

Tim Killian wrote in
:

Welding in an open shop is messy and hazardous. Welding in a basement
is just plain stupid.


I'll have to disagree. Is it the best situation to be in when welding?
No, of course not. Can it be done in a manner safe to life and property?
Most definately it can. It is up to the person doing the work to ensure
that the area is safe, and precautions are taken. Welding in a room with
plenty of flamables, no spark precautions, no fire extinguisher, and no
ventilation....IS stupid. Welding in a room designed to be welded
in...is NOT stupid.

There are a gazillion factories in the US, not to mention the rest of
the planet..where welding is done 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, and
have been doing do for years.. And many of them do it indoors.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

There are a gazillion factories in the US, not to mention the rest of
the planet..where welding is done 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, and
have been doing do for years.. And many of them do it indoors.

Yup. But not in the basement of a residential home with the family sleeping
upstairs.

In article , DeepDiver says...

There are a gazillion factories in the US, not to mention the rest of
the planet..where welding is done 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, and
have been doing do for years.. And many of them do it indoors.

Yup. But not in the basement of a residential home with the family sleeping
upstairs.

Define 'residential home' and 'family.' While you're at it,
have a go at 'sleeping' too. I think most of the regulars here
already fail on the residence issue because of the amount of
cast iron in the basements....



Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

You going to cram all that into a basement room 12x15?
Personally I would not put a abrasive chop saw anywhere
near a lathe or mill that I thought much of.

Jeff..with a shop of that size..not particularly big or small..it
would be very easy to put a welding area in a corner..with a homebrew
fume hood, and using a squirrel cage fan...suck the fumes out doors.
Grinding can be done in a corner, ..simply put up sheetrock on both
sides of the grinding area, and use a grit trap hooked to a vaccum
cleaner. A milling machine such as a bridgeport goes neatly in
another corner, a lathe along one wall.., workbenchs between...very
very doable. Put up a layer of fiberglass insulation, or egg crates
on the ceiling for sound deadening..and Id suspect you could run a
metal chop saw down there, if the family is sleeping on the 2nd floor.

But it could be done safely. Fire rated walls, ceiling and door, fume
extractor system, fire sprinkler system, limit the amount of
combustable material and it is safer than having a rec room where
someone smokes.


Dan

Here's another thought to consider.


I know a guy (internet acquaintance) that happens to be a real live rocket
scientist. Sometimes he likes to build stuff of his own design just for the
fun of it, but he doesn't own any machine tools, or have a place to put
them.

When the urge to be creative with metal hits him, he enrolls in the local
trade school. The teacher allows him to use all the equipment because he has
enough knowledge to use them properly. The student ignores his grade, and
makes himself at home with whatever project he is working on.

This gives him plenty of space, and a large assortment of quality machines
to use.

"Peter Grey" wrote in message
nk.net...
Well, now that you've gotten a consensus of opinion, your decision should
be
easy!

Peter


"Jeff B" wrote in message
news:Xxqaf.2461$IC.759@dukeread07...
I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it
looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in
my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate
to this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor
concrete and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would
be
a major concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if
I
could use it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I
guess before I go on too much more I should mention what I actually want
to do in it! It will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not
concerned
about excessive noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be
prepping/making the pieces that will be welded in this room as well.
This
means grinding, drilling, cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts
going
to this room, so hopefully the mess would stay enclosed in there, but
basically I'm looking for a real world sanity from anybody else that has
done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the room twice a week, can I actually
pull
this off without ruining my house? If anyone else has built something
like
this, I'd love to see some pictures. I am just trying to prepare my
"case"
for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm going to start welding in the
basement, but don't worry, the whole house won't be covered in aluminum
shavings" :-)

Thanks
Jeff

Jeff B wrote:

I have a newer home that has garages *barely* deep enough for the cars
themselves. I also have neighborhood covenants forbidding any kind of
outside shed, shop, etc. So basically, if I want a place to play it looks
like it's going to have to be in the basement.

My question is, am I crazy to think about building an enclosed room in my
(currently unfinished) basement? The space I have that I could allocate to
this is about 12' x 15'. I was thinking that I'd leave the floor concrete
and put up drywall all the way around... sound isolation would be a major
concern. It would almost be pointless to have this workshop if I could use
it late at night while the family is sleep (2 floor up). I guess before I
go on too much more I should mention what I actually want to do in it! It
will mainly be for Tig welding, which I'm not concerned about excessive
noise or dirt/debris levels, but I will also be prepping/making the pieces
that will be welded in this room as well. This means grinding, drilling,
cutting, etc. I won't have any air ducts going to this room, so hopefully
the mess would stay enclosed in there, but basically I'm looking for a real
world sanity from anybody else that has done this. If I'm shop-vaccing the
room twice a week, can I actually pull this off without ruining my house?
If anyone else has built something like this, I'd love to see some pictures.
I am just trying to prepare my "case" for when I tell the wife "oh yeah, I'm
going to start welding in the basement, but don't worry, the whole house
won't be covered in aluminum shavings" :-)


If you have no ventilation, it may get unbearably hot in there.

I have a metal shop in a part of my basement. For noise reasons, I
put the big machines at the opposite end of the ranch house from the
bedrooms. I can run a shop vac, which is about the noisiest things
I have, without disturbing the family at night.

I have a homemade fume hood for spray painting and TIG work, with an
outdoor vent. Basically made with dryer vent parts through the foundation
wall.

We do have a slight problem with people picking up metal slivers in their
(bare) feet somewhere in the house. I do as best as I can to clean up swarf
on the floor and brush off my shoes when I leave the shop. And,
sometimes the
kids visit me barefoot in the shop, and I warn them every time they are
risking a sliver or even a trip to the emergency room. Aluminum is no
problem, the thin slivers are weaker than skin, and crumple rather than
penetrate deeply into the foot. Steel slivers are an entirely different
matter,
they will plunge WAY deep into the toughest flesh on occasion.

So, if you take some basic precautions with an astroturf-type welcome mat
to brush your feet off on, and generally clean up whenever you are done
making chips, it will NOT destroy your house. (Don't go and get $9000
worth of wall-to-wall Berber carpet, either.)

The biggest complaint I get is SMELLS! Especially, I have to paint when
the rest of the family is away. If I absolutely have to paint something
while
they are there, I get a bunch of static, even with the fume hood.
Without that,
the fumes would drive me out, too, unless they made me PASS out. Hmm,
that reminds me - you really CAN'T TIG weld in a closed space. The Argon
will drive out all the oxygen after a while, and you'll slowly croak.

Jon

Chuck Sherwood wrote:

Can you find a place to store one of the cars in the winter so you have
some space to work in the garage?


Ah come one guys, he doesn't WANT to use the garage.



But is welding in the basement really an option?
I don't think so, so its time to consider alternatives.

He doesn't drive the cars in the winter so find a place
to store them and use the garage as a workshop.



Since I got my TIG welder, I've been welding in the basement. It
works great. I do have a fume hood with a blower exhausing the
fumes outside. There ARE fumes from TIG welding, and depending
on what materials you use, there could be more. I have done some
galvanized materials and let off some of the surrounding Zinc when
the pieces got hot. I didn't get the dreaded Zinc fever because the
hood was pulling most of the fumes out.

Yes, you have to take fume safety, fire safety and even electrical safety
seriously in this case. No gas leaks, no flammable materials stored
nearby, etc. And, you need to have a serious fire extinguisher available.
I bought a bunch of expired water-compressed air extinguishers on eBay
for ~$25 each. These things have 2.5 Gal (I think) of water with 100 PSI
compressed air above the water. They need to be retired after 10 years,
but still work fine for many years after. I've never used them in the shop,
but I did put out a large turkey grease fire in the oven one day with one.
It was very impressive, and put out a huge lake of burning grease with a
one second burst or water! I have several of these stored around the
shop.

I did one project that was too big for the fume hood, TIG'ing steel
tube and bar stock to make a table for a surface plate. I did this in an
open area in the shop, and there was no fume problem at all. This was
one of those set up and align for 10 minutes, then make one weld for 15
seconds type of job, so a more continuous welding job might build up
some fumes.

Jon

I have a homemade fume hood for spray painting and TIG work, with an
outdoor vent. Basically made with dryer vent parts through the foundation
wall.

Interesting. Any special precautions for the motor? When I can make
time, I like to draw (no fumes) and paint (lots of volatile stench).
Ott lights allow me to work at night, but ventilation is still a
problem. On my pre-drawing board is an idea for a cart with an easily
sealable pallete holder, room for a couple of palletes[*], and some type
of fume hood that ejects via a hose to a plastic panel placed in a
nearby window. I can see this thing in my living room; now I just have
to design and build it =:0

One concern I have is that I don't want sparking in a motor to cause a
fire (or worse) with all of the wonderful turpentine, varnish and oil fumes.
[*] these are fighting words in some circles, but only glass need apply,
and I find the easiest way to keep the mixing area from growing out of
control is to involve a separate pallete in the task.



We do have a slight problem with people picking up metal slivers in their
(bare) feet somewhere in the house. I do as best as I can to clean up
swarf
on the floor and brush off my shoes when I leave the shop. And,
sometimes the
kids visit me barefoot in the shop, and I warn them every time they are
risking a sliver or even a trip to the emergency room. Aluminum is no
problem, the thin slivers are weaker than skin, and crumple rather than
penetrate deeply into the foot. Steel slivers are an entirely different
matter,
they will plunge WAY deep into the toughest flesh on occasion.

My big concern with chips is picking them up in shoes and using them as
rasps to destroy wood floors that are everywhere in the house. I like
them, but would have used a lot more tile. Of course, steal would do a
lot of damage to tile too

I have finger matts around my milling machine, which is the primary
generator of "large" sharp chips. The theory is that the chips
typically fall into the cracks and my shoes never actually get a chance
to pick them up. _Seems_ to be working so far.


So, if you take some basic precautions with an astroturf-type welcome mat
to brush your feet off on, and generally clean up whenever you are done
making chips, it will NOT destroy your house. (Don't go and get $9000
worth of wall-to-wall Berber carpet, either.)

Seconded. I also have a more traditional matt that I cross before
entering the house, the idea being that if I do pick up a make shift
razor blade, I will hopefully feel it there before reaching the
expensive flooring.


The biggest complaint I get is SMELLS! Especially, I have to paint when
the rest of the family is away. If I absolutely have to paint something
while
they are there, I get a bunch of static, even with the fume hood.
Without that,
the fumes would drive me out, too, unless they made me PASS out. Hmm,
that reminds me - you really CAN'T TIG weld in a closed space. The Argon
will drive out all the oxygen after a while, and you'll slowly croak.

I might have been the first to mention the danger, and I will be the
first to admit it is unlikely to happen. However, there are people no
longer part of this world who got that way because of inert gas leaks.
It's certainly something to consider.

Bill

1. You should be fine welding in the basement.

I would make sure you have a defined are , line the walls with
something fireproof and set up some movable screens to shield any other
basement storage items.

An air cleaner or simple exhaust fan may be advisable. Do a couple of
small tests, it should be very obvious if you generate enough fumes.
Any welding using a flux would certainly need an exhaust fan.


2. Check your covanants very carefully. In my area many have been found
to be unenforcable because they are too restrictive. You could always
build onto the house keeping the same style.

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:18:30 -0600, Jeff B wrote:

I guess my big question at this point is, is there no one here that welds in
their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

I weld, turn, grind, sand and do the washing in my basement
http://pages.quicksilver.net.nz/geof...p/workshop.htm
although it is fairly open. You may want a ventilation fan if you are doing
a lot of welding - esp stick welding. I would line the walls with fire
rated plasterboard or fibre cement board for safety
Geoff

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 18:17:36 -0500, Bill Schwab
wrote:

I have a homemade fume hood for spray painting and TIG work, with an
outdoor vent. Basically made with dryer vent parts through the foundation
wall.

Interesting. Any special precautions for the motor? When I can make
time, I like to draw (no fumes) and paint (lots of volatile stench).
Ott lights allow me to work at night, but ventilation is still a
problem. On my pre-drawing board is an idea for a cart with an easily
sealable pallete holder, room for a couple of palletes[*], and some type
of fume hood that ejects via a hose to a plastic panel placed in a
nearby window. I can see this thing in my living room; now I just have
to design and build it =:0

One concern I have is that I don't want sparking in a motor to cause a
fire (or worse) with all of the wonderful turpentine, varnish and oil fumes.

Then you want to put in a solid sheetmetal duct to the outside, or
preferably up to the roof in a chase lined with drywall as an
additional firestop. Then use a 'mushroom' style up-blast ventilator
fan or a squirrel cage style blower on the roof - either style with a
bypass motor that is NOT in the airflow.

The ones sold for commercial kitchen vent hoods will work fine for
this, they can run sucking out fumes from a roaring grease fire inside
the ducts long enough to let it consume all the fuel and go out - or
to suck the dry chemical powder up the flue and put it out in place.

Restaurant hood style ducts to the outside would be overkill but
they are designed to safely contain a fire - they use welded heavy
gauge steel (looks like 1/8" plate) for the inner duct, then they wrap
it in an outer sheetmetal duct, then the whole thing is in a drywalled
chase.

The upblast fan on the roof will get those vapors far enough from
the house to keep them from being noticed inside. You hope.

The biggest complaint I get is SMELLS! Especially, I have to paint when
the rest of the family is away. If I absolutely have to paint something
while
they are there, I get a bunch of static, even with the fume hood.
Without that,
the fumes would drive me out, too, unless they made me PASS out. Hmm,
that reminds me - you really CAN'T TIG weld in a closed space. The Argon
will drive out all the oxygen after a while, and you'll slowly croak.

I might have been the first to mention the danger, and I will be the
first to admit it is unlikely to happen. However, there are people no
longer part of this world who got that way because of inert gas leaks.
It's certainly something to consider.

You can't really build up enough inert gas to off yourself - a big
enough tank leak to do it in a small room would be heard. (Sssssss!)
But sucking down welding fumes for long periods of time would do it,
and paint fumes won't help your health any either.

Oh, a paint hood would be the same basic thing as your welding area,
but you add paint capture pads to keep the stuff out of the ductwork.

Matter of fact, you could buy a prefab sheetmetal paint booth and
exhaust system, and use it for everything. Just roll out the paint
platform cart, take out the paint capture pads, and roll in your
welding table cart. And make sure all the solvent fumes have
dissipated before striking an arc.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Anthony wrote:
Tim Killian wrote in
:


Welding in an open shop is messy and hazardous. Welding in a basement
is just plain stupid.



I'll have to disagree. Is it the best situation to be in when welding?
No, of course not. Can it be done in a manner safe to life and property?
Most definately it can. It is up to the person doing the work to ensure
that the area is safe, and precautions are taken. Welding in a room with
plenty of flamables, no spark precautions, no fire extinguisher, and no
ventilation....IS stupid. Welding in a room designed to be welded
in...is NOT stupid.



Have you ever seen a clean welding shop? Of course not. They are usually
covered, along with the occupants, in a 1/4" of soot and grinding dust.
Welding is messy and there is no way it can be compatible with precision
machining. The fumes from welding are usually poisonous and they can be
corrosive if the humidity is high (as in a basement). Yes, ventilation
can remove the fumes but it will require make up air, and in a basement,
where does that come from?

There are probably a hundred things that can go wrong in this basement
welding scenario and a genius would be hard pressed to name 25 of them.

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:11:56 GMT, "Dave Lyon"
wrote:


I guess my big question at this point is, is there no one here that welds
in
their basement? I have never heard that there are toxic fumes that are
produced when tig welding... if I can't weld in the basement, then
everything else doesn't really matter...

thanks,
Jeff


Do you have a good way to carry the 200 lb tanks down the stairs?

200 lb tanks? I don't know what my 120 cf (or so) argon tank
weighs, but this old creak can carry it from loading dock to my
truck so it sure as hell isn't 200 lb.

Tim Killian wrote in
:

Yes, ventilation
can remove the fumes but it will require make up air, and in a
basement,
where does that come from?


Outside, preferably.

There are probably a hundred things that can go wrong in this basement
welding scenario and a genius would be hard pressed to name 25 of them.


Same goes for a garage, industrial plant, our even outside.

Tim, I think you are missing my point. Welding can be, and is done, just
about anywhere, provided the surrounding environment is designed, or
accommodations are made for that purpose.



--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

Have you ever seen an area where TIG welding is done that is sooty?

Did Jeff ever say he was going to do precision Machining?

Are there millions of basements with furnaces? Do they not get enough
air to operate?

My guess is that you don't have a TIG welder.

Dan

Tim Killian wrote:




Have you ever seen a clean welding shop? Of course not. They are usually
covered, along with the occupants, in a 1/4" of soot and grinding dust.
Welding is messy and there is no way it can be compatible with precision
machining. The fumes from welding are usually poisonous and they can be
corrosive if the humidity is high (as in a basement). Yes, ventilation
can remove the fumes but it will require make up air, and in a basement,
where does that come from?

There are probably a hundred things that can go wrong in this basement
welding scenario and a genius would be hard pressed to name 25 of them.

"Tim Killian" wrote in message
. ..

Have you ever seen a clean welding shop? Of course not.

I have. The shops I've been in are usually TIG welding race car stuff and
the places have to be clean. My garage gets a llittle messy but it's
nothing that a push broom and shop vac can't handle.

They are usually covered, along with the occupants, in a 1/4" of soot and
grinding dust.

I have this vision of people emerging dark faced as from a coal mine, "Yep.
Just doing a little TIG welding!".

Peter

The biggest thing to remember about doing work in a basement
shop....dont build anything bigger than what you can get out of the
basement.....

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

In article , Gunner says...

The biggest thing to remember about doing work in a basement
shop....dont build anything bigger than what you can get out of the
basement.....

Or heavier. I've been redoing a '59 BMW R50 this past summer, I
got the powder coated frame back around august. I stuck it on
a crate in the shop, and started bolting things onto it. Good
thing I stopped before the engine, because it took two of
us to carry it up the stairs and into the garage.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Let the record show that Gunner wrote back
on Sun, 06 Nov 2005 11:49:44 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :
The biggest thing to remember about doing work in a basement
shop....dont build anything bigger than what you can get out of the
basement.....

And don't forget the turn at the top of the stairs.


tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

On 6 Nov 2005 11:24:13 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

The biggest thing to remember about doing work in a basement
shop....dont build anything bigger than what you can get out of the
basement.....

Or heavier. I've been redoing a '59 BMW R50 this past summer, I
got the powder coated frame back around august. I stuck it on
a crate in the shop, and started bolting things onto it. Good
thing I stopped before the engine, because it took two of
us to carry it up the stairs and into the garage.

Heh, got that t-shirt too. Did you take pics of th'
rebuild/restoration Jim? Always liked those older Beemers.

Snarl

In article ,
says...

Heh, got that t-shirt too. Did you take pics of th'
rebuild/restoration Jim? Always liked those older Beemers.

Ah, I know I *should* have, but a lot of this was done one
spare hour at a time. If I thought I had to stop and take
photos, I never would have even ventured into the shop
most nights!

I have a before snapshot or two, but the program is still
on-going. Ie, it ain't done yet! I still have to paint
the tank and fenders still. That's the only thing holding
me up. Funny how paint that looks like it's about to fall
off on its own when the bikes running, all of a sudden becomes
the most impervious, impenenetrable, adhesive, toughest,
most ever-lasting material the instant you hit it with
a sandblaster, stripper, a wire brush, or a scraper.

I'm seriously thinking of painting some chemical stripper
on *all* my bikes just to make their paint last longer.

:^)

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
me up. Funny how paint that looks like it's about to fall
off on its own when the bikes running, all of a sudden becomes
the most impervious, impenenetrable, adhesive, toughest,
most ever-lasting material the instant you hit it with
a sandblaster, stripper, a wire brush, or a scraper.

A corollary: Paint that looks horrible when one first contemplates it starts
to look a lot better when one realizes that removing said paint with a
sandblaster, stripper, wire brush, or scraper makes it the most impervious,
impenetrable, adhesive, toughest, most ever-lasting material known to man.
This is known as the "good enough" or "it looks fine from a distance"
corollary.

Peter

On 7 Nov 2005 13:55:41 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Heh, got that t-shirt too. Did you take pics of th'
rebuild/restoration Jim? Always liked those older Beemers.

Ah, I know I *should* have, but a lot of this was done one
spare hour at a time. If I thought I had to stop and take
photos, I never would have even ventured into the shop
most nights!

Documenting projects can be a pain alright. Taking th' pics is th'
easy part, akin to pullin' th' trigger whilst deer hunting... then th'
real work starts g.

Here's a tooling project I documented, well, almost to completion:
http://tinyurl.com/9wbps Th' audience it was aimed at were not
machinists. This was tooling we made that would allow us to
accurately and repeatedly slot mounting holes (and use as a QC jig)
for a proprietary, custom Harley-Davidson, high flow, air intake
system we manufacture.

This retrofit was a nightmare to figure out. Turns out H-D
reorientated and canted th' mounting patterns mid-stream in '01. Our
theory is they did it to screw with th' aftermarket suppliers... it
worked.

I have a before snapshot or two, but the program is still
on-going. Ie, it ain't done yet!

So that means there's still hope ; )

I still have to paint
the tank and fenders still. That's the only thing holding
me up. Funny how paint that looks like it's about to fall
off on its own when the bikes running, all of a sudden becomes
the most impervious, impenenetrable, adhesive, toughest,
most ever-lasting material the instant you hit it with
a sandblaster, stripper, a wire brush, or a scraper.

Got that t-shirt also. Imron I believe is what we sprayed on my '37
H-D years ago. Try removing that ****! Ultimately ended up just
sanding it and usin' it as a base coat after trying all of th' above.

I'm seriously thinking of painting some chemical stripper
on *all* my bikes just to make their paint last longer.

:^)

You might just have something there. I'm leaning towards truck bed
liner and sayin' to hell with it, heh, heh.

Snarl

Bill Schwab wrote:
I have a homemade fume hood for spray painting and TIG work, with an
outdoor vent. Basically made with dryer vent parts through the
foundation
wall.


Interesting. Any special precautions for the motor?
The motor is outside the hood, and is a shaded-pole, so there is
no starting switch to spark. Anyway, I usually start the blower
first, paint, clean up the mess, and leave the blower on for a couple
of hours. So, there wouldn't be any sparks while the fumes are
present.

This is a Dayton centrifugal blower, rated at something like 100 CFM
continuous. You have to throttle it a bit, or the motor draws too
much current and overheats.
When I can make
time, I like to draw (no fumes) and paint (lots of volatile stench). Ott
lights allow me to work at night, but ventilation is still a problem.
On my pre-drawing board is an idea for a cart with an easily sealable
pallete holder, room for a couple of palletes[*], and some type of fume
hood that ejects via a hose to a plastic panel placed in a nearby
window. I can see this thing in my living room; now I just have to
design and build it =:0

One concern I have is that I don't want sparking in a motor to cause a
fire (or worse) with all of the wonderful turpentine, varnish and oil
fumes.

I do spray painting of electronic enclosures, with a 2-component
chromate wash primer and bake-on enamel. The enamel has some volatile
fumes to it, but the primer is REALLY potent stuff.
The switch that turns the blower on can spark, but I've never had any
problem with this setup. When it is working right, most of the fumes
are sent outside, and there is only a modest smell. Sometimes the
spray gun swirls the air around in the hood and a blast of solvent-
laden air gets out in the room. I used to paint with a sheet of
plastic dropcloth material with a few slits closing off the front
opening of the hood, but the plastic got painted so quick I was
working blind within minutes. So, I've been leaving the plastic
off, but I ought to put it back. That really contains the fumes
better.

Jon

pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the record show that Gunner wrote back
on Sun, 06 Nov 2005 11:49:44 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

The biggest thing to remember about doing work in a basement
shop....dont build anything bigger than what you can get out of the
basement.....


And don't forget the turn at the top of the stairs.
Every house I've owned (that's 2) has had a walk-out basement. No
walk-out, and I just scratch it off the list.

Jon

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:27:13 -0800, wrote:

On 7 Nov 2005 13:55:41 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Heh, got that t-shirt too. Did you take pics of th'
rebuild/restoration Jim? Always liked those older Beemers.

Ah, I know I *should* have, but a lot of this was done one
spare hour at a time. If I thought I had to stop and take
photos, I never would have even ventured into the shop
most nights!

Documenting projects can be a pain alright. Taking th' pics is th'
easy part, akin to pullin' th' trigger whilst deer hunting... then th'
real work starts g.

Here's a tooling project I documented, well, almost to completion:
http://tinyurl.com/9wbps Th' audience it was aimed at were not
machinists. This was tooling we made that would allow us to
accurately and repeatedly slot mounting holes (and use as a QC jig)
for a proprietary, custom Harley-Davidson, high flow, air intake
system we manufacture.

This retrofit was a nightmare to figure out. Turns out H-D
reorientated and canted th' mounting patterns mid-stream in '01. Our
theory is they did it to screw with th' aftermarket suppliers... it
worked.

I have a before snapshot or two, but the program is still
on-going. Ie, it ain't done yet!

So that means there's still hope ; )

I still have to paint
the tank and fenders still. That's the only thing holding
me up. Funny how paint that looks like it's about to fall
off on its own when the bikes running, all of a sudden becomes
the most impervious, impenenetrable, adhesive, toughest,
most ever-lasting material the instant you hit it with
a sandblaster, stripper, a wire brush, or a scraper.

Got that t-shirt also. Imron I believe is what we sprayed on my '37
H-D years ago. Try removing that ****! Ultimately ended up just
sanding it and usin' it as a base coat after trying all of th' above.

I'm seriously thinking of painting some chemical stripper
on *all* my bikes just to make their paint last longer.

:^)

You might just have something there. I'm leaning towards truck bed
liner and sayin' to hell with it, heh, heh.

Snarl

Paint??? Bugs are better. Wont rust under a thick layer of bug guts.
And you only need to keep a a putty knife handy for clearing the
heandlight. Of course..with a Boxer... jack rabbit and the occasional
coyote makes for improved engine coatings. They never rust or oxidize
if you keep a good coating of bugs and small animal guts on your bike.

Though it does tend to smell interesting for a couple weeks if you hit
something big and squishy. When hitting a coyote..aim for the
shoulders/neck area. If you hit one in the belly...it can be really
squishy.

Gunner, '73 R90/6


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:11:56 GMT, Dave Lyon wrote:
Do you have a good way to carry the 200 lb tanks down the stairs?

$25 hand truck from Harbor Freight works great.

An exterior entrance would be wonderful! (To avoid bringing everything
into the house, down the stairs, up the stairs, out of the house...)

sdb

--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com