Fri 30 Sep 2005

Florida tourists warned that locals could shoot them

ALASTAIR JAMIESON

IT IS Britain's most popular transatlantic holiday destination,
attracting more than 1.5 million visitors a year with its sun-drenched
beaches, theme parks and wildlife.

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.

A series of alarming adverts, to be placed in British newspapers,
warns potential tourists about a new law allowing gun owners to shoot
anyone they believe threatens their safety.

It means thousands of British families who travel to the Sunshine
State are now caught up in the ongoing political row over gun control
in the United States.

The Florida law, supported by the National Rifle Association, was
approved by the state legislature in April.

The state's governor, Jeb Bush - whose brother is the US president -
described it as a "good, commonsense, anti-crime issue".

Critics call it the "shoot first" law and say it allows gun owners to
shoot if they engage in a simple argument in public. Supporters call
it the "stand your ground" law and say criminals will think twice
before attacking someone.

Previously, gun owners could only use their weapons if they first
attempted to withdraw and avoid a confrontation, and were permitted to
shoot threatening individuals only inside their home or property.

Now they can use "deadly force" if they "reasonably believe" that
firing their gun is necessary to prevent a crime or serious injury.
The law also effectively prevents civil legal action by victims of
such shootings.

The Brady Campaign to Control Gun Violence, based in Washington DC,
has pledged to "educate" tourists by placing adverts in US cities, and
in key overseas markets such as Britain.

"Warning: Florida residents can use deadly force," says one of the
adverts. Another reads: "Thinking about a Florida vacation? Please
ensure your family is safe. In Florida, avoid disputes. Use special
caution in arguing with motorists on Florida roads."

The Brady Campaign - named after Jim Brady, the spokesman for Ronald
Reagan who was paralysed by a gunshot during the 1981 assassination
attempt on the then-president - promises to also run adverts in
French, German and Japanese newspapers. The campaign officers also
plan to hand out leaflets on roads leading into the state.

Peter Hamm, the communications director of the Brady Campaign, said:
"It's a particular risk faced by travellers coming to Florida for a
vacation because they have no idea it's going to be the law of the
land. If they get into a road rage argument, the other person may feel
he has the right to use deadly force."

Tourism officials in Florida are furious at the move. Bud Nocera, the
executive director of Visit Florida, said: "It is sad that such an
organisation would hold the 900,000 men and women who work in the
Florida tourism industry, and whose lives depend on it, hostage to
their political agenda."

The Association of British Travel Agents yesterday said the posters
were "a matter of concern", but said there was unlikely to be a drop
in the number of visitors to Florida.

It said 1.4 million Britons made the journey last year, attracted by
the weather and resorts such as Disneyworld and the Kennedy Space
Centre.

A spokeswoman said: "We would offer the same advice about Florida as
we would any other part of the United States. As far as we are
concerned, nothing has changed."

More than 80 million tourists from around the world visited Florida
last year, boosting an industry that accounts for one-fifth of the
state economy.


http://news.scotsman.com/internation...?id=2014492005

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.


Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.


Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!



London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000. If that counts as
being overcome by lawlessness then you must be in a war zone :-|
FOAD


Mark Rand
RTFM

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.


Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!

Just got back from the other London, and the only problem I found was
that Senior Son's non "WASP" neighbour had a hard time with my accent.
Mind you, I did my underground wandering in non peak hours ( after
9:30 AM ) when it was only 5.20 for a four zone travel card.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:36:31 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.


Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!



London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000. If that counts as
being overcome by lawlessness then you must be in a war zone :-|
FOAD


Mark Rand
RTFM
Mark,
That's the first time I've seen that in print. Personally, I think
ESAD is more insulting.
Eric

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 15:34:02 -0700, Eric R Snow wrote:

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:36:31 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.


Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!



London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000. If that counts as
being overcome by lawlessness then you must be in a war zone :-|
FOAD


Mark Rand
RTFM
Mark,
That's the first time I've seen that in print. Personally, I think
ESAD is more insulting.
Eric


I was cross!


Mark Rand
RTFM

In article , Mark Rand
writes
On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.


Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!



London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000. If that counts as
being overcome by lawlessness then you must be in a war zone :-|

D'oh! You had to go and tell him that before I took his wager! ;^)

Unless, of course, he still wants to put his money where his mouth is...

--
Nigel

When the only tools you have are a Bridgeport, a CNC Taig Mill, a Colchester
and assorted other stuff, every problem looks like a steam engine.

Gunner Asch wrote:
Fri 30 Sep 2005

Florida tourists warned that locals could shoot them


Where does this moron find this ****?

What an empty life he must lead.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Nigel Eaton wrote:



D'oh! You had to go and tell him that before I took his wager! ;^)

Unless, of course, he still wants to put his money where his mouth is...

Gunner doesn't have any money.

All he has is a computer and a modem.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Maybe Increase British Immigration!
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



DeepDiver wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.



Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

Fri 30 Sep 2005

Florida tourists warned that locals could shoot them

That's why it's called "Tourist Season"! Remember, only kill what you're
going to eat.

Abrasha wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

Fri 30 Sep 2005
Florida tourists warned that locals could shoot them


Where does this moron find this ****?

What an empty life he must lead.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

And you apparently feel a compelling need to read and comment.

One might discern that it is you who leads an empty life.

Abrasha wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Fri 30 Sep 2005
Florida tourists warned that locals could shoot them


Where does this moron find this ****?

What an empty life he must lead.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

snicker...and your life is so sad..you simply had to respond to it...

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!


Gunner, baiting another hook for a large mouth bottom feeder

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:05:47 -0700, Abrasha
wrote:

Nigel Eaton wrote:



D'oh! You had to go and tell him that before I took his wager! ;^)

Unless, of course, he still wants to put his money where his mouth is...

Gunner doesn't have any money.

All he has is a computer and a modem.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


And a life.

You on the other hand..have your jewelry and autism. Who helps you log
on?

Snicker

Gunner

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:37:41 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

Maybe Increase British Immigration!
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder


Odd that you should mention that. EVERY..and I mean EVERY Brit
immigrant that I know, is a gun owner, and some are serious
collectors.

Gunner



DeepDiver wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.



Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Abrasha wrote:

Where does this moron find this ****?

What an empty life he must lead.

It was a bit hard to miss if you watch fox news, read drudge, or
cruise the internet.

It was clearly marked OT so who has the empty life? I just read
really fast.

Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Alpha Charlie Echo Golf Romeo Oscar Paul dot Charlie Charlie
Lycos address is a spam trap.

"Mark Rand" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely
to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!


London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000.

Back to remedial reading comprehension classes for you Mark. I said shot,
not murdered.


If that counts as being overcome by lawlessness then you must
be in a war zone

No, I live in a country where citizens may defend themselves against armed
criminals and against the government.

But to back-up my claims of UK lawlessness, I present the following from
"Gun Control's Twisted Outcome: Restricting firearms has helped make England
more crime-ridden than the U.S." by Joyce Lee Malcolm:

quote
Violent crime [in England] has been climbing ever since [1954]. Last
December, London's Evening Standard reported that armed crime, with banned
handguns the weapon of choice, was "rocketing." In the two years following
the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and
the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of
people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent.

Gun crime is just part of an increasingly lawless environment. From 1991 to
1995, crimes against the person in England's inner cities increased 91
percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime
more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times
greater than in New York. England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary
are far higher than America's, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur
while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where
burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police. In a United
Nations study of crime in 18 developed nations published in July, England
and Wales led the Western world's crime league, with nearly 55 crimes per
100 people.
/quote

Read the rest at http://www.reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml (if you have the
courage to face reality).


FOAD

And with those four letters, you just demonstrated to the world what a man
of low stature and character you really are.

Have a nice day.

Mark Rand wrote:

London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000. If that counts as
being overcome by lawlessness then you must be in a war zone :-|
FOAD

Under reporting.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...1/205139.shtml

The bigger picture.

http://reason.com/cy/cy031802.shtml


Another cite.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902


Even some Canadians think gun control is nuts.

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared...sNav=nr&id=570


The UK has a thing called 'home invasion burglary, as I understand it,
it means the buglers don't give a chit if the home owner is home or
not. That seems to be an effect of the no gun policy in the UK.

The US model has been increased penalties as in locking up 'evil
doers' and citizen empowerment via concealed weapon permits,

There are parts of the USA that I would never venture in though.
Generally this parts of the US that are gun free zones where only the
gang bangers are armed. I'm thinking Watts, Washington DC, parts of
NYC.

If you want to go a bit further, let us compare the US murder +
suicide rate vs the Japan murder + suicide rate. Some cultural
differences emerge.

Switzerland seems to have a lot of arms and fairly low crime rates.

If foreign tourist can't handle the fact that Floridians are armed
than stay home or go to some nice safe exotic place like bali and get
your arse blown off.

I'll take my chances here in any US 'shall issue ccw' state. I'm
staying out of the blue states.

Wes



--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Alpha Charlie Echo Golf Romeo Oscar Paul dot Charlie Charlie
Lycos address is a spam trap.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 08:27:03 GMT, "DeepDiver"
wrote:

"Mark Rand" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely
to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!


London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000.

Back to remedial reading comprehension classes for you Mark. I said shot,
not murdered.


If that counts as being overcome by lawlessness then you must
be in a war zone

No, I live in a country where citizens may defend themselves against armed
criminals and against the government.

But to back-up my claims of UK lawlessness, I present the following from
"Gun Control's Twisted Outcome: Restricting firearms has helped make England
more crime-ridden than the U.S." by Joyce Lee Malcolm:

quote
Violent crime [in England] has been climbing ever since [1954]. Last
December, London's Evening Standard reported that armed crime, with banned
handguns the weapon of choice, was "rocketing." In the two years following
the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and
the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of
people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent.

Gun crime is just part of an increasingly lawless environment. From 1991 to
1995, crimes against the person in England's inner cities increased 91
percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime
more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times
greater than in New York. England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary
are far higher than America's, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur
while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where
burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police. In a United
Nations study of crime in 18 developed nations published in July, England
and Wales led the Western world's crime league, with nearly 55 crimes per
100 people.
/quote

Read the rest at http://www.reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml (if you have the
courage to face reality).


FOAD

And with those four letters, you just demonstrated to the world what a man
of low stature and character you really are.

Have a nice day.

The rates for assault,, rape, burglary and motor vehicle theft were
all lower in America than in England and Wales.

Then too..there is still a matter of under reporting going on with the
British police..shrug.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4232958.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4700575.stm
Violent offences top million mark

Official police figures indicate violent crime is up
Violent offences in England and Wales reached record levels in 2004-5
with police recording one million crimes - up 7% from the previous
year.
Police figures show 1,035,046 violent incidents against the person,
excluding sexual offences and robberies.

Total recorded crime fell 6% to 5.6m incidents, but gun crime was up
6%.

Minister Hazel Blears stressed overall crime fell, saying the apparent
rise in violent crime merely reflected better reporting and recording
of offences.

Ms Blears, a Home Office minister, also told the BBC that the separate
British Crime Survey, which interviews people to ask if they have been
crime victims, showed a decrease in violent crime.

But shadow home secretary David Davis said the police figures were
"further evidence that the government continues to fail on violent
crime".

The BCS estimates there were 10.8 million crimes in the year,
although crimes against businesses and the under-16s are excluded.

Another estimate of crime in England and Wales published three weeks
ago by the Home Office suggested there were 14.7 million crimes
committed against children and adults in England and Wales in 2003-04.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 08:27:03 GMT, "DeepDiver"
wrote:

Violent crime [in England] has been climbing ever since [1954]. Last
December, London's Evening Standard reported that armed crime, with banned
handguns the weapon of choice, was "rocketing." In the two years following
the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and
the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of
people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent.


Bad news......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/3256318.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2644233.stm

http://www.savvysurvivor.com/black_market_guns.htm


And of course..a blast from the past..posts from our beloved Teenut

http://yarchive.net/metal/uk_guns.html

snip

From: Robert Bastow "teenut"@ hotmail.com
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism,alt.survival,rec.crafts.metalwork ing
Subject: OT-British Gun Laws Update
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:35:51 GMT

Before I left England..Twenty four years ago, I was an avid target
shooter,
licensed FAC holder, and collector of antique and modern firearms.
Even then it
was absolutely DEAD easy to buy a non-registered firearm..I owned
many,
including a 9mm Sten Gun (Full auto, sub-machine gun) up until I left
the UK,
when I gave it to a friend. I know for a fact he still has it and I
could have
it, and a ton of ammo in my hands within hours of landing there.

Non registered arms have always been rife and easy to get..in any Pub
in the
UK..none of THEM have been surrendered and the market is flooded with
more with
every container ship that docks.

The Stupid ban of firearms has simply turned a whole sector of
previously law
abiding Brits into Criminals..and created an international awareness
of a ready
market for smuggled guns, that organised criminals are only too happy
to feed.

Besides that, it has made an international laughing stock..NOT of the
Politicians..Pols DO that stuff!..But of the once proud and free Brits
who let
themselve be suckered and blind-sided, into allowing it to happen, by
a noisy,
self- centered and politically naive, left wing of Hidden-Agenda
tree-huggers.

You guys richly deserve what you got..and it will only get worse if
you don't
start to fight baloney with FACTS..Right NOW!!

Sorry I can't help you! I crossed and burned my Bridge a long time
ago. I am
proud of my British Heritage and the wealth of Knowledge, Law,
Civilisation,
Peace and Freedom it helped bring to this World. But I am finding it
increasingly difficult, to feel real proud of what it has been ALLOWED
to
degenerate into!

Sadly,

teenut

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:30:26 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Sorry I can't help you! I crossed and burned my Bridge a long time
ago. I am
proud of my British Heritage and the wealth of Knowledge, Law,
Civilisation,
Peace and Freedom it helped bring to this World. But I am finding it
increasingly difficult, to feel real proud of what it has been ALLOWED
to
degenerate into!

Sadly,

teenut


"THAT RIFLE HANGING ON THE WALL OF THE WORKING-CLASS FLAT OR
LABOURER'S COTTAGE IS THE SYMBOL OF DEMOCRACY. IT IS OUR JOB TO SEE
THAT IT STAYS THERE.'"
George Orwell

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 05:09:53 -0400, wrote:



Even some Canadians think gun control is nuts.


Then again..it would appear that Canadian Gun Controlers are nutz

http://www.lufa.ca/news/news_item.asp?NewsID=5211

http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/...egulation.html
http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publi...2005_new/8.htm

http://www.lufa.ca/news/news_item.asp?NewsID=4196
http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/...pters/3/1.html
http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/asc...esentation.doc


http://www.gunowners.org/op0507.htm

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
"Mark Rand" wrote in message

FOAD

The rates for assault,, rape, burglary and motor vehicle theft were
all lower in America than in England and Wales.

And Mark's little uncouth outburst demonstrates that the rates for
incivility are also lower in America.

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:13:24 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

Peter Hamm, the communications director of the Brady Campaign, said:
"It's a particular risk faced by travellers coming to Florida for a
vacation because they have no idea it's going to be the law of the
land. If they get into a road rage argument, the other person may feel
he has the right to use deadly force."

Perhaps he should have said "If you're an arrogant, selfish *******
who is prone to arguments which turn into fistfights, avoid Florida.
They could put you in your place there."


Tourism officials in Florida are furious at the move. Bud Nocera, the
executive director of Visit Florida, said: "It is sad that such an
organisation would hold the 900,000 men and women who work in the
Florida tourism industry, and whose lives depend on it, hostage to
their political agenda."

An entirely false political agenda. sigh

--
"Simplicity of life, even the barest, is not misery but
the very foundation of refinement." --William Morris
-----------------------------------
www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:36:31 +0100, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark
Rand quickly quoth:

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.


Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!



London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000. If that counts as
being overcome by lawlessness then you must be in a war zone :-|
FOAD

You gun control creeps just don't face the facts, do you? Google for
"violent crime britain" and read some of the 2.4 million hits on that
if you dare. Headlines include "Violent Crime up 14%", " Shootings,
Gangs and Violent Incidents in Manchester", etc. I strongly suggest
that you investigate this deeper than one article in your local
newspaper if you want a more realistic outlook, Mark, though gun
controllers seldom do. Better yet, read "More Guns, Less Crime" for
a better grasp on the subject, complete with many dozens of cited
works which you could, if so inclined, read and follow up on.

Here's one from Google:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...1/205139.shtml

Britain: From Bad to Worse

Dave Kopel, Dr. Paul Gallant and Dr. Joanne Eisen
Thursday, March 22, 2001

During the 19th century, and most of the 20th, Britain enjoyed a
well-deserved reputation as an unusually safe and crime-free nation,
compared to the United States or continental Europe. No longer.

To the great consternation of British authorities concerned about
tourism revenue, a June CBS News report proclaimed Great Britain "one
of the most violent urban societies in the Western world." Declared
Dan Rather: "This summer, thousands of Americans will travel to
Britain expecting a civilized island free from crime and ugliness ...
[but now] the U.K. has a crime problem ... worse than ours."

Not surprisingly to many observers, the violent crime rate has risen
dramatically and steadily since gun bans have been instituted. That's
a trend seen wherever strict gun control laws have been implemented.
And that's the part of the story British officials have tried to keep
under wraps.

A headline in the London Daily Telegraph back on April 1, 1996, said
it all: "Crime Figures a Sham, Say Police." The story noted that
"pressure to convince the public that police were winning the fight
against crime had resulted in a long list of ruses to 'massage'
statistics," and "the recorded crime level bore no resemblance to the
actual amount of crime being committed."

For example, where a series of homes were burgled, they were regularly
recorded as one crime. If a burglar hit 15 or 20 flats, only one crime
was added to the statistics.

More recently, a 2000 report from the Inspectorate of Constabulary
charges Britain's 43 police departments with systemic
under-classification of crime – for example, by recording burglary as
"vandalism." The report lays much of the blame on the police's desire
to avoid the extra paperwork associated with more serious crimes.

Britain's justice officials have also kept crime totals down by being
careful about what to count.

"American homicide rates are based on initial data, but British
homicide rates are based on the final disposition." Suppose that three
men kill a woman during an argument outside a bar. They are arrested
for murder, but because of problems with identification (the main
witness is dead), charges are eventually dropped. In American crime
statistics, the event counts as a three-person homicide, but in
British statistics it counts as nothing at all. "With such differences
in reporting criteria, comparisons of U.S. homicide rates with British
homicide rates is a sham," the report concludes.

Another "common practice," according to one retired Scotland Yard
senior officer, is "falsifying clear-up rates by gaining false
confessions from criminals already in prison." (Britain has far fewer
protections against abusive police interrogations than does the United
States.) As a result, thousands of crimes in Great Britain have been
"solved" by bribing or coercing prisoners to confess to crimes they
never committed.

Explaining away the disparity between crime reported by victims and
the official figures became so difficult that, in April 1998, the
British Home Office was forced to change its method of reporting
crime, and a somewhat more accurate picture began to emerge. In
January 2000, official street-crime rates in London were more than
double the official rate from the year before.

So what's a British politician to do when elections coincide with an
out-of-control crime wave? Calling for "reasonable" gun laws is no
longer an option. Handguns have been confiscated and long guns are
very tightly restricted. So anti-gun demagoguery, while still popular,
can't carry the entire load.

Conversely, the government would not find it acceptable to allow its
subjects to possess any type of gun (even a licensed, registered .22
rifle) for home protection. Defensive gun ownership is entirely
illegal, and considered an insult to the government, because it
implies that the government cannot keep the peace. Thus, in one recent
notorious case, an elderly man who had been repeatedly burglarized and
had received no meaningful assistance from the police, shot a pair of
career burglars who had broken into his home. The man was sentenced to
life in prison.

The British authorities warn the public incessantly about the dangers
of following the American path on gun policy. But the Daily Telegraph
(June 29, 2000) points out that "the main reason for a much lower
burglary rate in America is householders' propensity to shoot
intruders. They do so without fear of being dragged before courts and
jailed for life."

So what's the government going to do to make voters safer? One
solution came from the Home Office in April 1999 in the form of
"Anti-Social Behaviour Orders" – special court orders intended to deal
with people who cannot be proven to have committed a crime, but whom
the police want to restrict anyway. Behaviour Orders can, among other
things, prohibit a person from visiting a particular street or
premises, set a curfew, or lead to a person's eviction from his home.

Violation of a Behaviour Order can carry a prison sentence of up to
five years.

Prime Minister Tony Blair is now proposing that the government be
allowed to confine people proactively, based on the fears of their
potential danger to society.

American anti-gun lobbyists have long argued that if America followed
Britain's lead in severely restricting firearms possession and
self-defense, then American crime rates would eventually match
Britain's. The lobbyists have also argued that if guns were restricted
in America, civil liberties in the U.S. would have the same degree of
protection that they have in Britain. The lobbyists are absolutely
right.
-
Dr. Paul Gallant practices optometry in Wesley Hills, N.Y. Dr. Joanne
Eisen practices dentistry in Old Bethpage, N.Y. Both are research
associates at the Independence Institute, where Dave Kopel is research
director. Reprinted with permission of the authors.
--
"Simplicity of life, even the barest, is not misery but
the very foundation of refinement." --William Morris
-----------------------------------
www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

"DeepDiver" wrote in message ...
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a
campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they
could be killed.
Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.
Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!

London is safe and it's all thanks to the police logo : )

"One of his first actions as Commissioner, it seems, was to change the Met's logo, at a cost to the taxpayer of several thousand
pounds, because its motto 'working together for a safer London' was in joined-up handwriting and thus -- wait for it --
'discriminated against short-sighted people'. A Met spokesman told the Sunday Telegraph:

'The old logo was not compliant with the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 because it was slightly italicised and it may have
proved difficult to read for visually impaired people.'"
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary...es/001039.html

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 08:27:03 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

"Mark Rand" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely
to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!


London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000.

Back to remedial reading comprehension classes for you Mark. I said shot,
not murdered.

I'm terribly sorry about that. Over here, we tend to associate being shot with
being killed. An easy mistake to make.


If that counts as being overcome by lawlessness then you must
be in a war zone

No, I live in a country where citizens may defend themselves against armed
criminals and against the government.

But to back-up my claims of UK lawlessness, I present the following from
"Gun Control's Twisted Outcome: Restricting firearms has helped make England
more crime-ridden than the U.S." by Joyce Lee Malcolm:

snip of quote

Another quote in an opposite direction:-

"
Robberies in America, moreover, are far more likely to be committed with
weapons. And it is the combination of the greater likelihood of violent crime
in the first place with the higher probability that the crime will involve a
weapon, especially a gun, that accounts for the uniquely high levels of deadly
violence in the United States. Franklin Zimring and Gordon Hawkins have
detailed this pattern in comparing robberies and burglaries in London and New
York City. New Yorkers are far more likely to be robbed (the rate of reported
robberies in 1992 was nearly four times that in London); and their chances of
being killed during a robbery are even more disproportionate. There were 5
robbery deaths in London in 1992, versus 357 in New York. That difference, not
surprisingly, is closely tied to the far more frequent presence of guns in New
York's robberies. Startlingly, however, the risk of being killed in the course
Of a robbery in New York that does not involve a gun was still four times
greater than the risk of being killed in any robbery in London.
"

Quote in full:-
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Pr...ion_CAPIA.html


Feel free to have your deluded dreams and I'll feel free to have mine. I
suspect that I'll be far less likely to be shot than you :-)


Regards
Mark Rand

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 21:36:53 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:


London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000.

Back to remedial reading comprehension classes for you Mark. I said shot,
not murdered.

I'm terribly sorry about that. Over here, we tend to associate being shot with
being killed. An easy mistake to make.


Actually, only about 20% of gunshot victims die of their wounds. The
other 80% usually has minor to major debilitating long term injuries.

Ive been shot twice. First time I didnt know it until after things
ramped down. Second time, the kid with the bb gun knocked me right
off my feet when he shot me in the ass from 40' away.

Being bayonetted hurt worse.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 10:00:42 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 21:36:53 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:


London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000.

Back to remedial reading comprehension classes for you Mark. I said shot,
not murdered.

I'm terribly sorry about that. Over here, we tend to associate being shot with
being killed. An easy mistake to make.


Actually, only about 20% of gunshot victims die of their wounds. The
other 80% usually has minor to major debilitating long term injuries.

The Londoner has probably never seen a real gun ('cept in books, if
that) and he certainly hasn't done much reading on the subject, G.


Ive been shot twice. First time I didnt know it until after things
ramped down. Second time, the kid with the bb gun knocked me right
off my feet when he shot me in the ass from 40' away.

I got it, all the way up to the hilt, in the right asscheek. 'Course,
that was with a dart from an angry 10-y/o _friend_. It hurt worse than
the tetanus shot in the other cheek, the idiot nurse. She made sure I
couldn't sit (or lie down on either side) for a week without it
hurting. Thinking back, I should have punched the sadistic bitch.


Being bayonetted hurt worse.

My little bayonet attack hurt, too.

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------
www.diversify.com - Happy Website Development

Mark Rand wrote:
Back to remedial reading comprehension classes for you Mark. I said shot,
not murdered.


I'm terribly sorry about that. Over here, we tend to associate being shot with
being killed. An easy mistake to make.

that fits with MY definition of 'gun control' - hitting one's target

Mark Rand wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 08:27:03 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

"Mark Rand" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely
to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!


London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000.

Back to remedial reading comprehension classes for you Mark. I said shot,
not murdered.

I'm terribly sorry about that. Over here, we tend to associate being shot with
being killed. An easy mistake to make.
...

Perhaps you folks have better aim.

--

FF

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 10:18:51 -0500, Rex B wrote:
Mark Rand wrote:

Back to remedial reading comprehension classes for you Mark. I said shot,
not murdered.

I'm terribly sorry about that. Over here, we tend to associate being shot with
being killed. An easy mistake to make.

that fits with MY definition of 'gun control' - hitting one's target

When faced with an assailant sometimes you can get your point across
just fine by stopping them to neutralize the threat, you don't have to
kill them right off. Besides being far more humane, the permanent
limp (or worse) you leave them with will be a constant lifelong
reminder that crime does not pay.

But then you get the slick lawyers and the ACLU coming after you or
shooting him after the fact, so you can't win for losing. You pray
for a Judge and Jury with the sense to toss the case.

It's the assailants who won't take the hint to go down and stay down
with their hands in plain sight, but instead they keep coming at you,
possibly because they're hopped up on Cocaine, PCP, or other drugs
where they don't feel a thing - that's when you need to empty the gun
till they stop.

Or you get the yahoo who managed to acquire some Body Armor, shrugs
off the first shot in the center of mass and keeps coming, so you have
to go for the head shot.

Sorry if it sounds a bit barbaric, but when we founded this country
most people didn't live in a city with a constable on every corner to
respond almost instantly. Sometimes you had to travel a week to find
some help. Even with automobiles and aircraft cutting travel times,
there is still a sizable population living in Rural USA on farms and
ranches and small towns that's still in the same boat. We have a lot
of open space to cover, and a relatively small police force per
capita, so you are still partially on your own.

You can call 911 and report a "Hot Prowl" burglar in your house, and
the dispatcher will tell you that the one County Sheriff's patrol car
on duty tonight is at the other end of the county and will be up to an
hour arriving. If you are lucky, they can call the Highway Patrol or
the next city/county over, and see if they have anyone closer who can
respond.

Or a really good small town dispatcher knows which of your neighbors
is ahem "equipped to deal with a problem like that" (let's say a
Reserve or Off-Duty Deputy or Officer) and calls them. Still could
take them 15 minutes to arrive.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On 3 Oct 2005 12:48:29 -0700, wrote:


Mark Rand wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 08:27:03 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

"Mark Rand" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:24:20 GMT, "DeepDiver" wrote:

Based on the REALITY of recent events, I'd wager you're MUCH more likely
to
be shot in London (not to mention blown-up) than in any part of Florida.

Considering the lawlessness that has overcome the UK thanks to gun control
and multiculturalism, perhaps these idiotic ads by the Brady Campaign will
backfire on them and actually INCREASE British tourism!


London's current annual homicide rate is 2.1 per 100 000.

Back to remedial reading comprehension classes for you Mark. I said shot,
not murdered.

I'm terribly sorry about that. Over here, we tend to associate being shot with
being killed. An easy mistake to make.
...

Perhaps you folks have better aim.


The Brits do tend to run their suspects down, pile on top of him and
pump 7 bullets into his brain from contact range. If you call that
"better aim"

Given the numbers of innocent civilians that they have shot in the
last few years..perhaps they should have a better ROI.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

Gunner Asch wrote:

snicker...and your life is so sad..you simply had to respond to it...

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

And your response?

Gunner, baiting another hook for a large mouth bottom feeder

Ah yes. Did you kick puppies when you were younger?

On 5 Oct 2005 12:41:02 -0700, wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

snicker...and your life is so sad..you simply had to respond to it...

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

And your response?

Gunner, baiting another hook for a large mouth bottom feeder

Ah yes. Did you kick puppies when you were younger?

Actually, puppies are cute, are house trainable and are generally good
for something, unlike the poster I was responding to.

Are you nibbling at the hook too?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

It is the same stupid anti-gun NUTS that said "Florida streets would
run with blood, about 12 years ago, when the CCW must issue laws were
passed.( crimes against persons, murders etc are down in Florida)
What the new law puts into the code is that you no longer have to go out
the back door of your house/apt, that is if you have one. It also states
that you do not have to "seek shelter or run" if you are out in "public"
or even on private land. Before the new law was passed you "COULD" be
arrested for standing your ground, even if you were in fear for your life.
That part is still true, you cannot just shoot someone for a cross look,
or verbal assault.
You must still be "In fear for your life, or another persons life"
And now if some perp kicks in your door you can shoot them, without
having to exit out the back door, hide in bedroom etc, and hope the cops
get there before you are killed.
Mark
Life member NRA



Gunner wrote:
On 5 Oct 2005 12:41:02 -0700, wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

snicker...and your life is so sad..you simply had to respond to it...

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

And your response?


Gunner, baiting another hook for a large mouth bottom feeder

Ah yes. Did you kick puppies when you were younger?


Actually, puppies are cute, are house trainable and are generally good
for something, unlike the poster I was responding to.

Are you nibbling at the hook too?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:33:27 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:



The Brits do tend to run their suspects down, pile on top of him and
pump 7 bullets into his brain from contact range. If you call that
"better aim"


Investigator:- "Why did you shoot him seven times?"
Metropolitan Police officer:- "I ran out of bullets,Sir"

Mark Rand
RTFM

Gunner Asch wrote:

Ive been shot twice. First time I didnt know it until after things
ramped down. Second time, the kid with the bb gun knocked me right
off my feet when he shot me in the ass from 40' away.

I've been shot once. BB gun. I was compacting the ground for my ga
^H^H workshop when I felt an sharp pain in my back. I went to the
house to have my wife look at it and she said, it is a round hole and
ran to the door. She spied the neighboors kids running away with their
bb guns.

I called the sheriffs office and the deputy came out. Eventually they
contacted the mother who did the sob story and I let it go. The next
day, the very same kids were out with .22 rifles. So for a while, I
just touched of my .44 super blackhawk a few times at my 50 yard trap
when I got home and wore it on my side while working.

Fast forward a bit. This very same family got into a road rage thing,
used a cell phone to call a sister and ambushed an elderly couple at a
major intersecton near the sisters home.

Well one of the punks is facing felony time, the house next door is
likely going up on tax sale and justice finally caught up with the
family.

Sometimes it all works out.

Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Alpha Charlie Echo Golf Romeo Oscar Paul dot Charlie Charlie
Lycos address is a spam trap.

wrote in message ...

I've been shot once. BB gun. I was compacting the ground for my ga
^H^H workshop when I felt an sharp pain in my back. I went to the
house to have my wife look at it and she said, it is a round hole and
ran to the door. She spied the neighboors kids running away with their
bb guns.

I called the sheriffs office and the deputy came out. Eventually they
contacted the mother who did the sob story and I let it go. The next
day, the very same kids were out with .22 rifles. So for a while, I
just touched of my .44 super blackhawk a few times at my 50 yard trap
when I got home and wore it on my side while working.

Fast forward a bit. This very same family got into a road rage thing,
used a cell phone to call a sister and ambushed an elderly couple at a
major intersecton near the sisters home.

Well one of the punks is facing felony time, the house next door is
likely going up on tax sale and justice finally caught up with the
family.

Sometimes it all works out.

Perhaps it would have "worked out" earlier and better for all involved if
you hadn't bought the mother's sob story.

Shooting people with any firearm (including a BB gun) is entirely
unacceptable behavior for a "child" and should be dealt with severely.
Unless the father and mother clearly demonstrated to me that they were going
to "put the fear of God" into their children and punish them severely for
their irresponsible actions, then I would have pressed criminal charges
against both the punks and the parents. (Although, I suspect this was yet
another fatherless household.)

- Michael