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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Starting Over...What Would You Buy?
After watching the still unfolding diaster along the Gulf coast, I
can't help but think of all the workshops that were destroyed. All the tools and the effort that was expended to get them in the first place...such a waste. It has taken me decades to find and buy the quality and quantity of tools that I have. To replace them in a reasonable timeframe and cost is impossible...and I am sure this applies to many readers here. Now if you were in the situation to HAVE to start over to rebuild your shop...what would you buy, where and why? Thanks in advance for any suggestions that those who have been affected by a loss will appreciate. TMT |
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"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ups.com... After watching the still unfolding diaster along the Gulf coast, I can't help but think of all the workshops that were destroyed. All the tools and the effort that was expended to get them in the first place...such a waste. It has taken me decades to find and buy the quality and quantity of tools that I have. To replace them in a reasonable timeframe and cost is impossible...and I am sure this applies to many readers here. Now if you were in the situation to HAVE to start over to rebuild your shop...what would you buy, where and why? Thanks in advance for any suggestions that those who have been affected by a loss will appreciate. Personally while watching the unfolding disaster along the Gulf coast, I can't help but think about my fellow American and the months and years of anguish and personal loss of family that he will suffer from. I think it is way way way too early to even consider worrying about replacing equipment lost in a flood like the one in NO. Those affected really have more important considerations to consider like where am I going to live, where am I going to go to work, and when will I be reunited with my family, just to name a few. Whether it has taken decades or months to obtain something so trivial as a garage full of tools, those swamped tools mean little when compared to the real travesty that will continue to unfold. I can assure you that if you were in their shoes a collection of tools would be far far in the back of your mind. |
#3
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"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ups.com... After watching the still unfolding diaster along the Gulf coast, I can't help but think of all the workshops that were destroyed. All the tools and the effort that was expended to get them in the first place...such a waste. It has taken me decades to find and buy the quality and quantity of tools that I have. To replace them in a reasonable timeframe and cost is impossible...and I am sure this applies to many readers here. Now if you were in the situation to HAVE to start over to rebuild your shop...what would you buy, where and why? Thanks in advance for any suggestions that those who have been affected by a loss will appreciate. TMT I would deffinitely start with a Bridgeport mill with CNC capability and a fourth axis. Well tooled, of course. With this one machine I could do 90% of whatever work I need done in my business of developing tools, machines and products for clients and my own crazy ideas. The remaining 10% would be a good convertible horizontal/vertical 1/8" bandsaw as close to a wire edm as possible, and enough hand tools to drive my wife crazy. Wayne |
#4
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In article . com,
Too_Many_Tools says... Now if you were in the situation to HAVE to start over to rebuild your shop...what would you buy, where and why? For obviousl reasons, I think I'd locate whatever new tools I could afford, above sea level.... Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#5
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"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in
ups.com: snip Now if you were in the situation to HAVE to start over to rebuild your shop...what would you buy, where and why? I agree with Leon's comments, as usual. I also believe that, were I to restock my shop, there would be maybe two-thirds fewer tools than now reside there. Why? I'd make fewer buying mistakes. (There would be, for example, no Shopsmith.) I have a better understanding of what I enjoy doing. The economics of 'make vs. buy' are more meaningful now, and I now know many more craftspersons, whose work I would trust. I'd take my friends up on their offer of loaning a tool, or having them come over to help more. As we get older, some of us seek to lighten the load, live a simpler life, and not try to solve every problem with a new tool. I realize that life will still be pretty much the same, even if I never am the proud owner of a vintage Stanley Model 45. But most of all, a shop is just filled with stuff that enables creativity and productivity. It was empty when I bought the place 7 or 8 years ago. If I died tomorrow, there would be one heck of a garage sale, but that's about all that would matter, regards the stuff. It's only a small part of life. Patriarch |
#6
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I agree with you 110% .
The subject of rebuilding the shop to rebuild one's home/business/hobby is a subject that will need to be addressed in the future and that is why I posted it asking for any suggestions that anyone might have. My apology if you thought I believed that material processions take priority over the human cost...it definitely does not. TMT |
#7
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In article ,
jim rozen wrote: In article . com, Too_Many_Tools says... Now if you were in the situation to HAVE to start over to rebuild your shop...what would you buy, where and why? For obviousl reasons, I think I'd locate whatever new tools I could afford, above sea level.... and outside any big cities -- Free men own guns, slaves don't www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
#8
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"Leon" wrote in message ... Snipped . I can assure you that if you were in their shoes a collection of tools would be far far in the back of your mind. Not if said collection of tools IS the owners means of income......Then they would be much more than a "trivial garage full of tools" !! NET |
#9
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"Never_Enough_Tools" wrote in message ... Not if said collection of tools IS the owners means of income......Then they would be much more than a "trivial garage full of tools" !! If it was a means of income I can assure you I nor do I think the person doing this for a living would have to discuss with anyone what would have to replaced. |
#10
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I tend to buy the small version of a machine, then later on realize I need
something larger, then buy the medium size version, then realize I still need larger, and so on. If I had to do it again, I would buy big and be done with it. I wouldn't hesitate to buy imported machinery. I wouldn't buy a single Craftsman product (manual, electric or pneumatic). I would have far fewer cordless tools. I'd buy another TA-185 tig welder, but would skip the stick and mig. I'd buy a good 1/2" 6 point socket set. I'd skip the 12 point crap, as well as the 1/4" and 3/8" stuff. I'd skip the radial arm saw. I'd skip the Maglites, lanterns, halogen lights and trouble lights. I'd get another Luxeon headlight. I would still buy a zillion router bits. I wouldn't join and plane fine wood, then laminate them into a workbench. I'd screw some plywood together and be done with it. I would buy TWO of the best jack stands I could find, but no more than two. I'd skip that spring loaded air hose spool like the one at the service center. I wouldn't even think about buying a creeper. I'd buy a gigantic 3 phase air compressor, probably an Eaton. "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ups.com... After watching the still unfolding diaster along the Gulf coast, I can't help but think of all the workshops that were destroyed. All the tools and the effort that was expended to get them in the first place...such a waste. It has taken me decades to find and buy the quality and quantity of tools that I have. To replace them in a reasonable timeframe and cost is impossible...and I am sure this applies to many readers here. Now if you were in the situation to HAVE to start over to rebuild your shop...what would you buy, where and why? Thanks in advance for any suggestions that those who have been affected by a loss will appreciate. TMT |
#11
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I know the feeling. I need a lawn tractor. Looking at a D9.
"AL" wrote in message ... I tend to buy the small version of a machine, then later on realize I need something larger, then buy the medium size version, then realize I still need larger, and so on. If I had to do it again, I would buy big and be done with it. |
#12
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In article . net,
"CW" wrote: I know the feeling. I need a lawn tractor. Looking at a D9. Nice tractor. Accessories are expensive though. |
#13
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CW wrote:
I know the feeling. I need a lawn tractor. Looking at a D9. That's my kind of lawn tractor! It's good advice too. Big stuff is often cheaper, better built and more capable. If you've got space, go for it. Chris |
#14
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I would normally agree but in the past I have seen several cases where
because of flooding or a fire the owner affected has just decided to throw in the towel and go work for someone else since they did not believe that they could rebuild. Sometimes it is because of the time involved in rebuilding or the expense. At some time in our lives, we all reach the point where there is no point to rebuild. Shortening the time or reducing the cost can make the difference between a business rebuilding after a disaster or not. TMT |
#15
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"Leon" wrote in message ... "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ups.com... After watching the still unfolding diaster along the Gulf coast, I can't help but think of all the workshops that were destroyed. All the tools and the effort that was expended to get them in the first place...such a waste. It has taken me decades to find and buy the quality and quantity of tools that I have. To replace them in a reasonable timeframe and cost is impossible...and I am sure this applies to many readers here. Now if you were in the situation to HAVE to start over to rebuild your shop...what would you buy, where and why? Thanks in advance for any suggestions that those who have been affected by a loss will appreciate. Personally while watching the unfolding disaster along the Gulf coast, I can't help but think about my fellow American and the months and years of anguish and personal loss of family that he will suffer from. I think it is way way way too early to even consider worrying about replacing equipment lost in a flood like the one in NO. Those affected really have more important considerations to consider like where am I going to live, where am I going to go to work, and when will I be reunited with my family, just to name a few. Whether it has taken decades or months to obtain something so trivial as a garage full of tools, those swamped tools mean little when compared to the real travesty that will continue to unfold. I can assure you that if you were in their shoes a collection of tools would be far far in the back of your mind. This makes no sense. If TooManyTools has lost items in the floods should he refrain from trying to replace them until all other victims have their lives together? If so, why? He is also a victim of the floods and is in the process of rebuilding, regardless of the extent of his loss. Leon seems to have taken offense that he is doing so. |
#16
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Too_Many_Tools wrote:
After watching the still unfolding diaster along the Gulf coast, I can't help but think of all the workshops that were destroyed. All the tools and the effort that was expended to get them in the first place...such a waste. It has taken me decades to find and buy the quality and quantity of tools that I have. To replace them in a reasonable timeframe and cost is impossible...and I am sure this applies to many readers here. Now if you were in the situation to HAVE to start over to rebuild your shop...what would you buy, where and why? Thanks in advance for any suggestions that those who have been affected by a loss will appreciate. TMT Torch, welder and grinder. John |
#17
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"Battleax" wrote in message ... This makes no sense. If TooManyTools has lost items in the floods should he refrain from trying to replace them until all other victims have their lives together? If so, why? Uh, no he should not refrain from replacing his tools. He should consider doing so after looking at what is really important and after getting his home and family back in order. Getting you home and kife and family back to a normal state should be the utmost of your priorities and starting to think about such minor problems as a flooded shop 2 weeks after the storm is an indicator that someone may not have a grasp of the problems that lay before him. I live in Houston and with living in Houston, flooding is not an unusual occourance. Houstton went through a very similar experience as NO back in 2001 and I personally have been in floods 2 or 3 times as far back as 1967. It takes months to even consider moving back into you home if you had only a foot standing in it for any period of time. First there is a shortage of contractors and materials and if you are lucky, claims adjusters to do the work when thousands of homes have been affected. Because there has been this filthy water in you home for possibly weeks and or months a serious case of mold starts to grow in your home. Everything in the house must be thrown out and replaced. Then at a minimum the sheet rock has to be replaced and the insulation must be torn out and replaced. If you are lucky, that is all you have to do. Then consider that all of the neighborhoods near you are doing the same thing in every house. On top of this you still have to go to work every day if the business was not wipped out and hope progress is being made on your home while you are staying at a hotel or an appartment that has no furniture. And how do you get to work, you vehicles flooded long before your house went under. You literally are lucky to have the clothes that are on your back. Leon seems to have taken offense that he is doing so. Perhaps, to start a thread off with "After watching the still unfolding disaster along the Gulf coast, I can't help but think of all the workshops that were destroyed", All the tools and the effort that was expended to get them in the first place...such a waste. It has taken me decades to find and buy the quality and quantity of tools that I have. I can assure you that for most flood victims it has also taken decades to obtain the much more important things in life such as his family, home, furniture, etc. For thousands it will again take decades to get back to the same state of well being and accomplishment as they were in 3 weeks ago. How can a person that has "actually" been through this or witnessed this on TV, not see the irony of the statements of the beginning of this thread? At the very least I see the statement as being a bit short sighted and seems to indicate a lack of compassion or understanding of what ANY flood victim will go through when his home has been flooded. "Maybe" 6 months from now a lucky victim can start to think about replacing his shop tools but keeping his family together and feeding them for the next several months should be his immediate concern. With all that said, I can see the value of this thread but perhaps with a bit more compassion for those that are really in a hard ship right now, save the thread for another 12 months or so. |
#18
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"Battleax" wrote in message ... snip How do you know so much about his particular situation? I have been through 4 Major hurricanes plus Houston where I live went through a very similar experience as NO back in 2001 and I personally have been in floods 2 or 3 times as far back as 1967. |
#19
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"Leon" wrote in message .. . "Battleax" wrote in message ... This makes no sense. If TooManyTools has lost items in the floods should he refrain from trying to replace them until all other victims have their lives together? If so, why? Uh, no he should not refrain from replacing his tools. He should consider doing so after looking at what is really important and after getting his home and family back in order. snip How do you know so much about his particular situation? |
#20
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"Leon" wrote in message . .. "Battleax" wrote in message ... snip How do you know so much about his particular situation? I have been through 4 Major hurricanes plus Houston where I live went through a very similar experience as NO back in 2001 and I personally have been in floods 2 or 3 times as far back as 1967. Lightweight...and irrelevant. I was refering to the original poster's particular situation, not your past experience. Everyone is giving TooMuchTools crap for trying to get his situation in order. Typical newsgroup bashing to make the bashers feel better. Good luck with that. |
#21
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"Battleax" wrote in message ... Lightweight...and irrelevant. I was refering to the original poster's particular situation, not your past experience. Everyone is giving TooMuchTools crap for trying to get his situation in order. Typical newsgroup bashing to make the bashers feel better. Good luck with that. I do not often respond like this but here goes, YOU are full of crap and apparently have a hard comprehending what you read. Lightweight MY ASS. ToMuchTools is not having to get any thing in order. He has not mentioned anything about him having a been involved in a flood. He has merely mentioned a possible scenario. His particular situation does not involve having to do anything. |
#22
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"Battleax" wrote in message news:4- I was under the impression his tools suffered flood damage, this does not appear to be the case. I had him mixed up with a previous poster wondering about his tablesaw and garage full of tools under water. Regardless, Huston was a blip compared to NO. Right. Explain that to the neighborhoods of families that took more than 12-18 months to get back into their homes. While not all of Houston was totally flooded, I would say that out of a population of 2.5 million and the metro area now being closer to 5 million probably 7-10% of the homes were flooded. Now compare that to the population of NO and I think you will have to agree that was no blip. Houston had water that was easily 16-20 feet deep on a freeway going into down town just from my side of town. Add in the other 6 freeways going into down town. |
#23
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so back on topic...
I'd get the dust collector before I got the shop vac. |
#24
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On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:14:07 -0700, s wrote:
so back on topic... I'd get the dust collector before I got the shop vac. Make sure you ground it... |
#25
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"Leon" wrote in message . .. "Battleax" wrote in message ... Lightweight...and irrelevant. I was refering to the original poster's particular situation, not your past experience. Everyone is giving TooMuchTools crap for trying to get his situation in order. Typical newsgroup bashing to make the bashers feel better. Good luck with that. I do not often respond like this but here goes, YOU are full of crap and apparently have a hard comprehending what you read. Lightweight MY ASS. ToMuchTools is not having to get any thing in order. He has not mentioned anything about him having a been involved in a flood. He has merely mentioned a possible scenario. His particular situation does not involve having to do anything. I was under the impression his tools suffered flood damage, this does not appear to be the case. I had him mixed up with a previous poster wondering about his tablesaw and garage full of tools under water. Regardless, Huston was a blip compared to NO. |
#26
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Another example of something I skimped on. I would skip the Jet 1.5HP dust
collector and get a giant cyclone. But I wouldn't think twice about spending extra for another Fein Turbo II. wrote in message ... so back on topic... I'd get the dust collector before I got the shop vac. |
#27
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"Leon" wrote in message ToMuchTools is not having to get any thing in order. He has not mentioned anything about him having a been involved in a flood. He has merely mentioned a possible scenario. His particular situation does not involve having to do anything. Exactly. And I see nothing wrong with going over a scenario that involves starting over for whatever the reason. Flood, divorce, job loss, fore. burglary, etc. While it is important to get family things in order, at some point tools will be a consideration. The rest of us can help by donating time, money, materials, whatever, to the Katrina victims but we still have to move ahead with our lives. IMO, this is not much more than asking "what do you want for dinner tomorrow?" |
#28
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On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:41:43 -0500, "AL" wrote:
Another example of something I skimped on. I would skip the Jet 1.5HP dust collector and get a giant cyclone. But I wouldn't think twice about spending extra for another Fein Turbo II. wrote in message .. . so back on topic... I'd get the dust collector before I got the shop vac. after a little thought, I'm gonna qualify my post. if all I was doing is replacing my shop, the DC would be purchased before the vac. but if the process involved cleaning up after a hurricane, the vac would be one of the very first purchases. |
#29
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"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message . .. "Leon" wrote in message ToMuchTools is not having to get any thing in order. He has not mentioned anything about him having a been involved in a flood. He has merely mentioned a possible scenario. His particular situation does not involve having to do anything. Exactly. And I see nothing wrong with going over a scenario that involves starting over for whatever the reason. Flood, divorce, job loss, fore. burglary, etc. While it is important to get family things in order, at some point tools will be a consideration. The rest of us can help by donating time, money, materials, whatever, to the Katrina victims but we still have to move ahead with our lives. IMO, this is not much more than asking "what do you want for dinner tomorrow?" I do agree. On a forum I browse a poster created a thread offering his condolences to the 911 victims yesterday. When no one replied within 4 hours he freaked out calling everyone assholes. There's little worse than being brow-beaten into having sympathy for one particular cause over another. |
#30
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"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message . .. Exactly. And I see nothing wrong with going over a scenario that involves starting over for whatever the reason. Flood, divorce, job loss, fore. burglary, etc. While it is important to get family things in order, at some point tools will be a consideration. The rest of us can help by donating time, money, materials, whatever, to the Katrina victims but we still have to move ahead with our lives. IMO, this is not much more than asking "what do you want for dinner tomorrow?" I think what struck me wrong is that most of the people that have lost everything, those that probably have no insurance most likely did not have the luxury of owning expensive tools. With that in mind, they would probably wish that they had the luxury of worrying about their water soaked tools instead of where their family is and where their next meal may come from. I don't condemn the nature of the thread as much as the timing. I seriously doubt that many NO survivors would have much sympathy for some one that only had to worry about damaged tools at this point. In you only have water soaked tools be thankful. |
#31
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In article , JohnM
wrote: Too_Many_Tools wrote: After watching the still unfolding diaster along the Gulf coast, I can't help but think of all the workshops that were destroyed. All the tools and the effort that was expended to get them in the first place...such a waste. It has taken me decades to find and buy the quality and quantity of tools that I have. To replace them in a reasonable timeframe and cost is impossible...and I am sure this applies to many readers here. Now if you were in the situation to HAVE to start over to rebuild your shop...what would you buy, where and why? Thanks in advance for any suggestions that those who have been affected by a loss will appreciate. TMT Torch, welder and grinder. I did an interstate move and had to build a new house when I arrived, starting off in a tent with hand tools and a borrowed gen set. So.... Hand tools & hand power tools, minimum of a good 1/2" drill and a cheap 71/2" circ saw. A hand power planer is very useful, I got a Makita which could do rebates over 12mm. I could then make all my own door jambs etc from solid rough sawn stock. Move up to a sliding compound mitre saw; I have a 12" DeWalt and love it. A table saw is nice too but more for detail work unless you're going to be ripping long lengths of timber. An air compressor and nail gun. Saves time and you can hold something and nail it without needing a 3rd hand. You've now built the shop/house/whatever. All this stuff can run off a moderately sized gen set. To get into metal, a good 5" angle grinder and a cheap 4 1/2" angle grinder. Yeah, you can get by with one grinder but it's a PITA to swap from cutting disks to grinding disks 20 times/day to save $20. A stick welder capable of running 1/8" 6011 rods, you can now weld anything you need to weld in steel. After that it depends on what you're into. Personally, I shipped my Colchester lathe, 30 x 8 H/V mill and big vertical bandsaw first. Building the house, I used the table saw and a 12" thickness planer quite a lot, but they're second order important for construction carpentry. They came into their own, along with the bandsaw and a router, for fitting the place out. PDW |
#32
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"they are, you know, underprivileged anyway, so this...this is working out
very well for them" - Barbara Bush "Leon" wrote in message . .. "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message . .. Exactly. And I see nothing wrong with going over a scenario that involves starting over for whatever the reason. Flood, divorce, job loss, fore. burglary, etc. While it is important to get family things in order, at some point tools will be a consideration. The rest of us can help by donating time, money, materials, whatever, to the Katrina victims but we still have to move ahead with our lives. IMO, this is not much more than asking "what do you want for dinner tomorrow?" I think what struck me wrong is that most of the people that have lost everything, those that probably have no insurance most likely did not have the luxury of owning expensive tools. With that in mind, they would probably wish that they had the luxury of worrying about their water soaked tools instead of where their family is and where their next meal may come from. I don't condemn the nature of the thread as much as the timing. I seriously doubt that many NO survivors would have much sympathy for some one that only had to worry about damaged tools at this point. In you only have water soaked tools be thankful. |
#33
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"Cherokee-Ltd" wrote in message ... "they are, you know, underprivileged anyway, so this...this is working out very well for them" - Barbara Bush She really is an ignorant hole. It's not that they're trying to be, it's just inbread into them, they simply don't know any better. "Leon" wrote in message . .. "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message . .. Exactly. And I see nothing wrong with going over a scenario that involves starting over for whatever the reason. Flood, divorce, job loss, fore. burglary, etc. While it is important to get family things in order, at some point tools will be a consideration. The rest of us can help by donating time, money, materials, whatever, to the Katrina victims but we still have to move ahead with our lives. IMO, this is not much more than asking "what do you want for dinner tomorrow?" I think what struck me wrong is that most of the people that have lost everything, those that probably have no insurance most likely did not have the luxury of owning expensive tools. With that in mind, they would probably wish that they had the luxury of worrying about their water soaked tools instead of where their family is and where their next meal may come from. I don't condemn the nature of the thread as much as the timing. I seriously doubt that many NO survivors would have much sympathy for some one that only had to worry about damaged tools at this point. In you only have water soaked tools be thankful. |
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