Yeah, I heard that too.

I thought "same garbage I hear from Washington".

Looks like I was right.

Anybody notice the other two hurricanes out in the Atlantic?

TMT

jim rozen wrote:

In article , Rex B says...

Rest assured that they will still want their tax moneies come
November. All those folks who have been hammered by the hurricane
will be hammered again, paying washington for services they
never got in this debacle.

Every time something like this has come up, the IRS has provided relief
of some sort - extended deadlines, additional loss dedcutions. Remember
9-11?

Nice if it happens - I would not hold my breath though.

I seem to recall that the IRS had the best plans to recover after
natural disasters - the entire country could be in chaos, but they
still want your tax return.

Jim

--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Ok, so you still have to file a tax return - whoop-de-doo. You've
already paid the vast majority of your taxes with your withholdings and
if you're unemployed after Katrina you don't have any additional income
to deal with. If your property was destroyed you can forget about
property taxes too.

If you had a mortgage, banks are all suspending mortgage payments for at
least a few months for those in the areas hit, and if you had a mortgage
you will also have had insurance (mortgage requirement) so within those
few months you should be able to get your claim(s) settled and have the
mortgage paid off.

If you were unemployed, renting and on welfare, well then you still
don't have any taxes to worry about since you don't have income or
property.

Either way you're still homeless and looking for income, but taxes are
hardly an issue.

Additionally, if the state ordered an evacuation and they knew they had
a large population of low income folks without the means to evacuate,
then it was the states responsibility to help them get transportation to
evacuate. Line up some city busses and/or school busses to assist those
without the means to evacuate.

Instead they are sitting around and blaming the feds. The feds
responsibility is after the disaster, not before, and the states lack of
action before the disaster is what has greatly compounded the problems.

Pete C.

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
Not if you are earthquake country where your home (and all those
provisions within it including transportation) would be destroyed in
moments.

In a blink of an eye, you could be limited to what you are wearing,
what you have in your pocket and without any information.

And there would be tens of thousands of other people in the
situation...

Sounds alot like the situation in New Orleans.

TMT


Not quite: the residents had adequate warning to leave before Katrina
arrived and a large number did so. They are now spread all around the Gulf
Coast and, according to news reports, at least as far north as Little Rock,
AR.

Many others ignored the Voluntary Evacuation notice but not the Mandatory
Evacuation order delivered by Public Safety [fire/police] personnel who
banged upon each and every door to personnaly deliver it.

The vast majority of those who remained did so quite voluntarily.

Those who heeded the Evacuation Orders had time to load valuables, clothing,
and at least some food before departure according to the families - who came
here - that I've spoken with.

Many of those who owned RVs took them with them and, in the majority of
cases, are living in them rather than having to pay outrageous motel/hotel
bills.

There's a whole lot of difference between Katrina and Northridge.

It is becoming more and more apparent that the Federal Government has
REALLY dropped the ball on Katrina.

The ball should have been welded on in the first place, therefore rendering
it unable to be dropped

On 2 Sep 2005 10:59:42 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...


Actually Ab...less than a third are in Iraq.

And the two thirds that are home, haven't come back
recently?

And are fully capable of responding? Point is, they send the
most able ones overseas. The ones behind may well be the
ones who cannot or will not serve, for whatever reason.

My personal guess is if you put the screws to it, less than
half of the stateside guard could actually be deployed.
And most of what they would need, is overseas.

Jim

When you can come up with somethin besides "personal guess" (and we
know how poor that tendss to be when the subject is political), get
back to me, ok?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On 2 Sep 2005 16:13:51 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

Not if you are earthquake country where your home (and all those
provisions within it including transportation) would be destroyed in
moments.

Wouild be destroyed in a moment? Think we live in explosive glass
houses??? I already lost a house to an earthquake. Lost damned little
of my posessions though. TV, some crystal, a Hasselblad camera that
wound up under the TV

In a blink of an eye, you could be limited to what you are wearing,
what you have in your pocket and without any information.

Only if you were suddenly struck down by a cerebral hemmorage.

And there would be tens of thousands of other people in the
situation...

Not in my neck of the woods (desert)

Sounds alot like the situation in New Orleans.

TMT

Sounds like you are clueless.


"proper preperation prevents **** poor performance"

Saying from British SAS.


Gunner


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Rex B" wrote in message
...
Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:59:49 GMT, "Norm Dresner"
wrote:
If more than half the Louisiana NG wasn't off fighting an illegal, stupid
war, they'd have been there to help.

Norm


Actually Ab...less than a third are in Iraq.

Helluva note, that.
They spend a tour taking potshots from raghead opportunists, then come
home to do the same thing in their old neighborhood.

Only this time it's "do-rag" headed opportunists

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On 2 Sep 2005 06:27:39 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

No disrespect intended Gunner but I think you need to spend a few days
on a roof in New Orleans with no water and food and then reconsider the
subject....I think your opinion would change.

Ill give you a hint old friend...why in the world would I have left
myself helpless, hopeless and clueless in the first place?

1. When the evac orders came..I would have been gone.

2. If something caused me to be unable to leave, Id have my survival
preps to rely on..and they are more than a couple bags of stale chips
and a can or two of outdated Spam.

3. When the water started rising..you can bet your ass I and mine
would have been on the move out of the area, properly kitted up with
the proper supplies to get us out of the area and to dry land and
safety.

4. If you will note..the vast vast majority of those poor dumb
*******s herded together on the I-10 overpass are NOT wheelchair bound
invalids, whose behavior could be excused.

So No mate..my opinion would not have changed. And quite honestly..I
HAVE lived down there, and while there, made preps for just such a
situation. Its called Situational Awareness and personal
responsibility. Unfortunately..the vast majority of those remaining in
danger are professional victims who have been indoctrinated in
waiting, hand out, for someone to come fix their booboos.

Have to agree with you on this one, Gunner. Personal responsibility is the
key here and these whiners should be blaming themselves first. OTOH, the
response was poorly organized and inadequate. If we are supposed to be able
to respond to terrorist attacks effectively they better get their act
together on ALL levels of government. There is usually little or no warning
before an attack.

In article , Gunner says...

I continue to be fascinated by the reporters and talking heads
babbling about weeks or a month before power to most areas is
restored. Frankly...if anyone does the research, you will find that
in many places..the entire..entire..entire infrastructure is gone.
Missing. Left. No More there. Power may be restored in months..but it
will be Years before many folks will be able to simply flush a toilet
or turn on a tap and get potable water.

Well ya got that right. I think folks don't realize how large the
affected area really is, because the press/TV coverage is concentrating
on the New Orleans issue.

I honestly think we're gonna need some of those troops/supplies/money
that's being shipped overseas to sort this out. We can't be
fighting a war on two fronts at once.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Seems to me today when most people say "government" they mean the Feds.
Yet most of us live under three, sometimes four, governments- city,
county, state, then federal.

Where were the local governments in all of this. State and local
governments seem to have made the decision to evacuate. Did they do
anything else other than tell folks to leave? Did they provide
transportation for those without cars? Shelters for those evacuating?
Telling folks where these shelters were? Provisions for communications?
Some officials seem to be amazed that phones in flooded cities don't
work well. I am amazed that they work at all.

I remember when FEMA was basically a reconstruction agency. Its job was
to help people rebuild. It was up to local and state officials to do
rescue, but they could request help from Coast Guard if needed. Today
it seems like we turn to feds as first responders. It looks to me as if
there were indeed snafus at federal level. But hey, the local
governments are the ones with the best understanding of what is needed,
and if the states were really doing much to help, it wasn't evident on
TV coverage.

Lets face it, local governments are and will always be more responsive.
The officials are your neighbors and if the neighborhood decides they
did a bad job, they won't get reelected.

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
No disrespect intended Gunner but I think you need to spend a few days
on a roof in New Orleans with no water and food and then reconsider the
subject....I think your opinion would change.

The Feds HAVE dropped the ball BIG TIME.

I see that the White House has now decided that maybe they should make
a quick trip to New Orleans for PR.

Meanwhile New Orleans burns...

TMT

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:37:34 -0400, "ATP*" wrote:


So No mate..my opinion would not have changed. And quite honestly..I
HAVE lived down there, and while there, made preps for just such a
situation. Its called Situational Awareness and personal
responsibility. Unfortunately..the vast majority of those remaining in
danger are professional victims who have been indoctrinated in
waiting, hand out, for someone to come fix their booboos.

Have to agree with you on this one, Gunner. Personal responsibility is the
key here and these whiners should be blaming themselves first. OTOH, the
response was poorly organized and inadequate. If we are supposed to be able
to respond to terrorist attacks effectively they better get their act
together on ALL levels of government. There is usually little or no warning
before an attack.



When was the last attack scenario (since the Cold War) war gamed that
involved a terrorist attack on an area the size of the British Isles?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:37:34 -0400, "ATP*" wrote:


So No mate..my opinion would not have changed. And quite honestly..I
HAVE lived down there, and while there, made preps for just such a
situation. Its called Situational Awareness and personal
responsibility. Unfortunately..the vast majority of those remaining in
danger are professional victims who have been indoctrinated in
waiting, hand out, for someone to come fix their booboos.

Have to agree with you on this one, Gunner. Personal responsibility is the
key here and these whiners should be blaming themselves first. OTOH, the
response was poorly organized and inadequate. If we are supposed to be
able
to respond to terrorist attacks effectively they better get their act
together on ALL levels of government. There is usually little or no
warning
before an attack.



When was the last attack scenario (since the Cold War) war gamed that
involved a terrorist attack on an area the size of the British Isles?

Gunner

How about terrorists blowing up a dam or destroying a levee during flood
conditions? Throw in a few hostile cells shooting at rescuers and you've got
New Orleans.

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
It is becoming more and more apparent that the Federal Government has
REALLY dropped the ball on Katrina.

President Bush knew what would happen and he prevented aid reaching
these people. He wants to stall recovery so that oil prices will
stay high and his friends in the oil industry can get more rich.
Right?

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:55:34 -0400, "ATP*" wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:37:34 -0400, "ATP*" wrote:


So No mate..my opinion would not have changed. And quite honestly..I
HAVE lived down there, and while there, made preps for just such a
situation. Its called Situational Awareness and personal
responsibility. Unfortunately..the vast majority of those remaining in
danger are professional victims who have been indoctrinated in
waiting, hand out, for someone to come fix their booboos.

Have to agree with you on this one, Gunner. Personal responsibility is the
key here and these whiners should be blaming themselves first. OTOH, the
response was poorly organized and inadequate. If we are supposed to be
able
to respond to terrorist attacks effectively they better get their act
together on ALL levels of government. There is usually little or no
warning
before an attack.



When was the last attack scenario (since the Cold War) war gamed that
involved a terrorist attack on an area the size of the British Isles?

Gunner

How about terrorists blowing up a dam or destroying a levee during flood
conditions? Throw in a few hostile cells shooting at rescuers and you've got
New Orleans.

Yes and? Getting The Beast (federal government) rolling will still
take a relatively long time. Which is why local governments are
mandated to be First Responders. Its simply impossible to collect
peole and materials from all over the place, survey the situation, and
get the ball rolling in anything less than a couple days..at best.

The only possible way to speed things up, is to institute a Police
State with troops garrisoned in each town and hamlet. Do you REALLY
want a government that can swarm a town or city in only a few hours?

Think hard about that...

Local government is tasked with the responsiblity of being the first
line of response. Fact of life, and common sense. In Nola..they
****ed the dog. Shrug. Its obvious to anyone with more than a couple
braincells functioning. No amount of blaming the Feral govenment will
change this factoid. And I as a right wing fringe kook survivalist am
hardly the appologist for Big Government.. But facts is facts and
logistics is logistics.

The sad part is that so much public attention and outrage (misdirected
intentionally by the Left) has been given to Nola, a minute fraction
of the problem area, that other areas muchmuchmuch harder hit are
still without aid of any significance. But then too..in those other
areas..local govenerment and the citizens themselves are acting as
First Responders. The old boy who is governor of Mississippi is gonna
be a very popular fellow in years to come, as he DIDNT hide for 4
days, DIDNT go on the tv whimpering about how they are being
discriminated against yada yada yada..and he is right smack dab in the
middle of the rescue operations, and doing a damned fine job of
organization and red tape cutting, from all reports

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 02:33:06 GMT, afdr9lk wrote:

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
It is becoming more and more apparent that the Federal Government has
REALLY dropped the ball on Katrina.

President Bush knew what would happen and he prevented aid reaching
these people. He wants to stall recovery so that oil prices will
stay high and his friends in the oil industry can get more rich.
Right?


Please follow the directions Exactly, for your own safety.

www.zapatopi.net/afdb.html

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Well said....
The stupid ones should have died, now they are going to be a huge drain.
I saw on the news that some guardsmen, (on FOX not the others) that they
had been on the road for 2 days, plus at least 1 day to mobilize....
Sheesh ..............I guess that they should have left 2 days before
Katrina hit. I expect then the ****wits would have complained the
jack booted, gun carrying, evil, storm troopers are stopping me from
looting.
All those ****wits who get a camera shoved in their face screaming
where is the help we need .

Well for some acting stupid WAS llethal.
Looters of anything besides food should have been shot on the spot.

Cliffie and tweety bird will now whine that I don't care ......
Liberal ****wits



Gunner wrote:
On 2 Sep 2005 06:27:39 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:


No disrespect intended Gunner but I think you need to spend a few days
on a roof in New Orleans with no water and food and then reconsider the
subject....I think your opinion would change.


Ill give you a hint old friend...why in the world would I have left
myself helpless, hopeless and clueless in the first place?

1. When the evac orders came..I would have been gone.

2. If something caused me to be unable to leave, Id have my survival
preps to rely on..and they are more than a couple bags of stale chips
and a can or two of outdated Spam.

3. When the water started rising..you can bet your ass I and mine
would have been on the move out of the area, properly kitted up with
the proper supplies to get us out of the area and to dry land and
safety.

4. If you will note..the vast vast majority of those poor dumb
*******s herded together on the I-10 overpass are NOT wheelchair bound
invalids, whose behavior could be excused.

So No mate..my opinion would not have changed. And quite honestly..I
HAVE lived down there, and while there, made preps for just such a
situation. Its called Situational Awareness and personal
responsibility. Unfortunately..the vast majority of those remaining in
danger are professional victims who have been indoctrinated in
waiting, hand out, for someone to come fix their booboos.

As far as the time gone by so far..NO is NOT the only area in trouble.
Are you aware that the area damaged by Katrina, is bigger than the
entire British Isles, including Ireland? How fast do you think the
highland Scots would be getting aid in a similar situation? This is
BIG, this is Bad, and its gonna take ****ing Years to level out.

I continue to be fascinated by the reporters and talking heads
babbling about weeks or a month before power to most areas is
restored. Frankly...if anyone does the research, you will find that
in many places..the entire..entire..entire infrastructure is gone.
Missing. Left. No More there. Power may be restored in months..but it
will be Years before many folks will be able to simply flush a toilet
or turn on a tap and get potable water.

History will show that this is the Worst, by orders of magnitudes,
natural disaster the US ever faced. With ramifications similar to the
US having been in a limited nuclear exchange.

Its been 5 days. There are bodies and walking dead scattered across an
area the size of the UK...and you expect some sort of miracle?
Sorry..aint gonna happen. The NO thing while sad, should have been
handled by local authorities. Ill not point out the obvious fact that
they tend to be Corrupt Democrats.

The US has taken a long term hit that will take multiple years to sort
out, and we have only seen the tip of the iceberg as far as far
reaching effects will go. We may well wind up with a depression that
will make 1929 look like an economic blip. The near future is the
time we should all hope and pray we voted for the right people, and
they hired the right advisors. In ALL governments, Federal, state and
local.

Feel free to finger point. But its mighty disengenious of you, based
on the evident ignorance you display of both the facts of the matter,
and the scope.

And perhaps you should consider very strongly what JFK said...

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for
your country"

Shrug

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:55:34 -0400, "ATP*" wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:37:34 -0400, "ATP*" wrote:


So No mate..my opinion would not have changed. And quite honestly..I
HAVE lived down there, and while there, made preps for just such a
situation. Its called Situational Awareness and personal
responsibility. Unfortunately..the vast majority of those remaining in
danger are professional victims who have been indoctrinated in
waiting, hand out, for someone to come fix their booboos.

Have to agree with you on this one, Gunner. Personal responsibility is
the
key here and these whiners should be blaming themselves first. OTOH, the
response was poorly organized and inadequate. If we are supposed to be
able
to respond to terrorist attacks effectively they better get their act
together on ALL levels of government. There is usually little or no
warning
before an attack.



When was the last attack scenario (since the Cold War) war gamed that
involved a terrorist attack on an area the size of the British Isles?

Gunner

How about terrorists blowing up a dam or destroying a levee during flood
conditions? Throw in a few hostile cells shooting at rescuers and you've
got
New Orleans.

Yes and? Getting The Beast (federal government) rolling will still
take a relatively long time. Which is why local governments are
mandated to be First Responders. Its simply impossible to collect
peole and materials from all over the place, survey the situation, and
get the ball rolling in anything less than a couple days..at best.

The only possible way to speed things up, is to institute a Police
State with troops garrisoned in each town and hamlet. Do you REALLY
want a government that can swarm a town or city in only a few hours?

Think hard about that...

Local government is tasked with the responsiblity of being the first
line of response. Fact of life, and common sense. In Nola..they
****ed the dog. Shrug. Its obvious to anyone with more than a couple
braincells functioning. No amount of blaming the Feral govenment will
change this factoid. And I as a right wing fringe kook survivalist am
hardly the appologist for Big Government.. But facts is facts and
logistics is logistics.

The sad part is that so much public attention and outrage (misdirected
intentionally by the Left) has been given to Nola, a minute fraction
of the problem area, that other areas muchmuchmuch harder hit are
still without aid of any significance. But then too..in those other
areas..local govenerment and the citizens themselves are acting as
First Responders. The old boy who is governor of Mississippi is gonna
be a very popular fellow in years to come, as he DIDNT hide for 4
days, DIDNT go on the tv whimpering about how they are being
discriminated against yada yada yada..and he is right smack dab in the
middle of the rescue operations, and doing a damned fine job of
organization and red tape cutting, from all reports

Gunner

I agree with most of what you're saying. Local government was dysfunctional
in this case, and definitely not prepared. It will take some time to sort
through the facts and analyze the response. On the federal level, look who's
in charge:

Knight Ridder Exposes Horsey Background of FEMA Chief

By E&P Staff

Published: September 04, 2005 10:00 AM ET

NEW YORK So who is Michael Brown, now catching all kinds of criticism for
his handling of the catastrophe in New Orleans? It seems his primary career
experience before nabbing a Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) post
was running a Arabian horse association. An article by Matt Stearns and Seth
Borenstein for Knght Ridder Newspapers observes, "there was little in
Michael D. Brown's background to prepare him for the fury of Hurricane
Katrina."

The reporters quote Kate Hale, former Miami-Dade
emergency management chief: "He's done a hell of a job, because I'm not
aware of any Arabian horses being killed in this storm. The world that this
man operated in and
the focus of this work does not in any way translate to this. He does not
have the experience."

During the 1990s, Brown served as judges and stewards commissioner of the
International Arabian Horse Association. His job was to ensure that
horse-show judges followed the rules and to investigate allegations against
those suspected of cheating. "I wouldn't have regarded his position in the
horse industry as a platform to where he is now," said Tom Connelly, a
former association president. The reporter refer to Brown's stormy years
with the horses as a "rocky tenure." Some have claimed that he was fired
from his post.

But Brown knew Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's 2000
campaign manager. Allbaugh took over FEMA in 2001, and hired Brown as
general counsel.



http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1001054585

Gunner wrote:
On 2 Sep 2005 06:27:39 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:


No disrespect intended Gunner but I think you need to spend a few days
on a roof in New Orleans with no water and food and then reconsider the
subject....I think your opinion would change.


Ill give you a hint old friend...why in the world would I have left
myself helpless, hopeless and clueless in the first place?


What?!? Are you kidding! You would have been the first macho jackass
who would have declared to stay behind to "ride out the storm"!

That is at least what you would have us believe if based on all that
survivalist bull**** you have been posting over the past several years
in numerous newsgroups. You would have been parading the streets of
NOLA "keeping order" with your M16 under one arm, an AK47 in the other,
and a bowie knife it the crack of your fat butt!

Or you would have drowned in an attic, or if you were lucky have ended
up on that roof.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Abrasha wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On 2 Sep 2005 06:27:39 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:


No disrespect intended Gunner but I think you need to spend a few days
on a roof in New Orleans with no water and food and then reconsider the
subject....I think your opinion would change.


Ill give you a hint old friend...why in the world would I have left
myself helpless, hopeless and clueless in the first place?


What?!? Are you kidding! You would have been the first macho jackass
who would have declared to stay behind to "ride out the storm"!

That is at least what you would have us believe if based on all that
survivalist bull**** you have been posting over the past several years
in numerous newsgroups. You would have been parading the streets of
NOLA "keeping order" with your M16 under one arm, an AK47 in the other,
and a bowie knife it the crack of your fat butt!

Or you would have drowned in an attic, or if you were lucky have ended
up on that roof.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Um, no.

A survivalist living in NO would have assessed the location as
inadequate/indefensible from likely emergency scenarios - rather hard to
defend your house against 20' of water - and would have had an
evacuation plan to pack and move to an alternate location.

A survivalist also would not have any interest in parading around
"keeping order" either. They have no interest in drawing attention to
themselves as this would generally lead to those that were unprepared
looking for handouts.

In the event that the survivalist were to decide to remain since the
storm was relatively low strength up until the last minute, they would
certainly not have drowned in an attic since situational awareness and
preparation would dictate that they would have a boat. Yea, obviously
you aren't going to have an ark in a NO backyard, but you certainly can
store an inflatable raft that would be quite adequate.

The folks who expect the government to take all the responsibility for
their safety love to bash the "wacky survivalists". You don't hear about
the survivalists in the media since they are not the ones drowning in
the attics or waiting to be rescued from their roofs.

The survivalists are the ones who took personal responsibility for their
own safety and well being. They assessed the likely risks and made
preparations to deal with them. Whatever survivalists lived in NO have
been sitting warm and dry somewhere safe, watching TV and shaking their
heads at those who expected someone else to take responsibility for
them.

Pete C.

Abrasha wrote:

That is at least what you would have us believe if based on all that
survivalist bull**** you have been posting over the past several years
in numerous newsgroups. You would have been parading the streets of
NOLA "keeping order" with your M16 under one arm, an AK47 in the other,
and a bowie knife it the crack of your fat butt!


Ah, the straight forward, unbiased, 100% objective compassion of the
left is just so heartwarming...

I guess hatred is OK as long as it's directed to anyone not on your side
of the fence, eh?


Jon

Hay abrasive, you should remember you are not from around here, get your
flaming fag French ass on a plane and go back to France.
Delta is ready, are you ?
Oh I forgot , you only LIVE here , suck up American dollars, well at
least your not on the dole.
Your a "trained Jeweler" stick to jewelry, and shag you ass back home.
Just what we need in the USA a faggy French ****head telling us how bad
we are. ****wit. If it was not for the USA you would be speaking German.
If memory serves, was it not France where all the grandparents DIED cuz
the adults left them without AC, and went on holiday....
Yep, France is where I want to retire to.........
Marc

Abrasha wrote:
Gunner wrote:

On 2 Sep 2005 06:27:39 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:


No disrespect intended Gunner but I think you need to spend a few days
on a roof in New Orleans with no water and food and then reconsider the
subject....I think your opinion would change.



Ill give you a hint old friend...why in the world would I have left
myself helpless, hopeless and clueless in the first place?


What?!? Are you kidding! You would have been the first macho jackass
who would have declared to stay behind to "ride out the storm"!

That is at least what you would have us believe if based on all that
survivalist bull**** you have been posting over the past several years
in numerous newsgroups. You would have been parading the streets of
NOLA "keeping order" with your M16 under one arm, an AK47 in the other,
and a bowie knife it the crack of your fat butt!

Or you would have drowned in an attic, or if you were lucky have ended
up on that roof.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Marc wrote:

Hay abrasive, you should remember you are not from around here, get your
flaming fag French ass on a plane and go back to France.

FYI, I am not French, I am Dutch. And the Dutch as you may know have
their own history with the dangers of living under sea level. Almost
the entire country is under water, and protected only by dunes and
dikes. Part of our "survival plan" has always been, that every Dutch
citizen learns to swim at a very early age.

"In February 1953 the Netherlands faced disaster when the dikes
protecting the southwest of the country were breached by the joint
onslaught of a hurricane-force northwesterly wind and exceptionally high
spring tides. The flood came in the night without warning, a fateful
combination of freak high tides and gale-force winds that killed 1,835
people. Almost 200,000 hectares of land was swamped, 3,000 homes and 300
farms destroyed, and 47,000 heads of cattle drowned. Flooding caused by
storm surges were nothing new to the Netherlands, but this time the
nation was stunned by the extent of a disaster unparalleled for
centuries. It was The Netherlands' worst disaster for 300 years."

I was only 5 years old when this happened, yet I remember it vividly.
It did not happen to me or my family directly, but I remember what it
was like. The fear about the water coming. I grew up in The Hague, a
town on the North Sea coast, just about 25 miles north of where the
disaster struck. We spent days glued to the radio.

So instead of choosing to live in a place that could be inundated by
water, I chose a much safer place, ... San Francisco.

See http://www.kloosterman.be/gen-eng-19...d-disaster.php

and to find out how the Dutch have dealt with this threat,

http://www.deltawerken.com/index.php...setlanguage=en

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:26:02 -0700, Abrasha
wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On 2 Sep 2005 06:27:39 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:


No disrespect intended Gunner but I think you need to spend a few days
on a roof in New Orleans with no water and food and then reconsider the
subject....I think your opinion would change.


Ill give you a hint old friend...why in the world would I have left
myself helpless, hopeless and clueless in the first place?


What?!? Are you kidding! You would have been the first macho jackass
who would have declared to stay behind to "ride out the storm"!

Really? That would have been mighty counter survival.

That is at least what you would have us believe if based on all that
survivalist bull**** you have been posting over the past several years
in numerous newsgroups.

Or could it be some fantasy you hold?

You would have been parading the streets of
NOLA "keeping order" with your M16 under one arm, an AK47 in the other,
and a bowie knife it the crack of your fat butt!

I dont own either an AK or a Mzipteen. I would indeed have been well
armed, and didi mauing my ass out of the city.

Or you would have drowned in an attic, or if you were lucky have ended
up on that roof.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

The opinion of an idiot savant is noted. Found hysterically funny and
poigent in its pathos.

Gunner


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 02:45:34 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Abrasha wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On 2 Sep 2005 06:27:39 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:


No disrespect intended Gunner but I think you need to spend a few days
on a roof in New Orleans with no water and food and then reconsider the
subject....I think your opinion would change.


Ill give you a hint old friend...why in the world would I have left
myself helpless, hopeless and clueless in the first place?


What?!? Are you kidding! You would have been the first macho jackass
who would have declared to stay behind to "ride out the storm"!

That is at least what you would have us believe if based on all that
survivalist bull**** you have been posting over the past several years
in numerous newsgroups. You would have been parading the streets of
NOLA "keeping order" with your M16 under one arm, an AK47 in the other,
and a bowie knife it the crack of your fat butt!

Or you would have drowned in an attic, or if you were lucky have ended
up on that roof.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

Um, no.

A survivalist living in NO would have assessed the location as
inadequate/indefensible from likely emergency scenarios - rather hard to
defend your house against 20' of water - and would have had an
evacuation plan to pack and move to an alternate location.

A survivalist also would not have any interest in parading around
"keeping order" either. They have no interest in drawing attention to
themselves as this would generally lead to those that were unprepared
looking for handouts.

In the event that the survivalist were to decide to remain since the
storm was relatively low strength up until the last minute, they would
certainly not have drowned in an attic since situational awareness and
preparation would dictate that they would have a boat. Yea, obviously
you aren't going to have an ark in a NO backyard, but you certainly can
store an inflatable raft that would be quite adequate.

The folks who expect the government to take all the responsibility for
their safety love to bash the "wacky survivalists". You don't hear about
the survivalists in the media since they are not the ones drowning in
the attics or waiting to be rescued from their roofs.

The survivalists are the ones who took personal responsibility for their
own safety and well being. They assessed the likely risks and made
preparations to deal with them. Whatever survivalists lived in NO have
been sitting warm and dry somewhere safe, watching TV and shaking their
heads at those who expected someone else to take responsibility for
them.

Pete C.


Indeed.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:07:08 -0700, Abrasha
wrote:

FYI, I am not French, I am Dutch. And the Dutch as you may know have
their own history


Is this the same Dutch that turned over a bunch of Croates to be
murdered because they were afraid?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

The President still doesn't get it.

He needs to sit on a roof for a week without food and water....with his
mother.

====


Bush promises to `make it right' in effort to ease public anger By Ron
Hutcheson, Knight Ridder Newspapers Mon Sep 5, 6:02 PM ET

WASHINGTON - President Bush returned to the Gulf Coast on Monday as
part of a White House effort to ease public anger over the sluggish
federal response to Hurricane Katrina.

"All levels of government are doing the best they can," the president
told evacuees at a church shelter in Baton Rouge, La. "If it's not
going right, we'll make it right."

Bush and his wife, Laura, visited Louisiana and Mississippi three days
after his first up-close look at the stricken region. The hastily
arranged return trip came amid mounting criticism of the president's
leadership in the aftermath of the natural disaster.

"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long after our beloved
city and surrounding parishes have been pumped dry," the New Orleans
Times-Picayune said in an open letter to Bush in Sunday's edition. "Our
people deserved rescuing. Many who could have been were not. That's to
the government's shame."

Bush didn't directly address complaints about the government's response
during his stops in Baton Rouge and Poplarville, Miss. Instead, he
praised the work of private volunteers, reassured evacuees that they
wouldn't be abandoned, and expressed confidence in the region's ability
to rebound.

Bush didn't venture into New Orleans, which he also skipped on his
first visit. But after days of televised suffering by African Americans
in the city, White House officials ensured that the television pictures
of Bush's trip would include shots of the president with
African-American survivors.

Bush toured the Baton Rouge shelter with T.D. Jakes, one of the
nation's most prominent black preachers. Jakes' Dallas church, The
Potter's House, has 30,000 members. The president hugged and chatted
with displaced New Orleans residents as he strolled through the
makeshift but orderly facility at the Bethany World Prayer Center.

"This is a long-term project," Bush said. "This country is going to be
committed to doing what it takes to help people get back on their
feet."

"I think he's doing what he can do," said Richard Landres, a New
Orleans lumberyard worker who was a resident of the shelter.

Still, there was some awkwardness to the tour. Louisiana Gov. Kathleen
Blanco, who was given short notice of Bush's visit, kept her distance
as she and the president worked the room. Blanco, a Democrat, has hired
James Lee Witt, President Clinton's head of the Federal Emergency
Management Agency and an outspoken critic of the agency's recent
performance, to advise her during the recovery.

Bush's somber, determined tone on Monday contrasted with the mixed
messages on Friday's visit, when he joked that he sometimes enjoyed
himself too much in New Orleans - an apparent reference to his
hard-drinking past. He also angered some hurricane survivors last week
by telling Michael Brown, who's become a top target for criticism as
the head of FEMA, that he was "doing a heck of a job."

"That's unbelievable," the Times-Picayune scolded in its holiday
weekend letter to the president. The paper urged Bush to fire Brown and
other top FEMA officials.

In other developments, Bush issued a series of emergency declarations
clearing the way for federal aid to states that have agreed to help
hurricane evacuees. In Houston, former President Clinton and former
President Bush formally launched their fundraising campaign for
disaster relief.

The elder Bush said that he and his wife, Barbara, don't enjoy hearing
their son criticized.

"The president can take it. What do I think as a father? I don't like
it," he said. "And if somebody wants to tell Barbara about things that
are going wrong, (that) the president's doing wrong, I suggest you wear
your flak jacket."

Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on
Mon, 05 Sep 2005 09:39:02 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

The folks who expect the government to take all the responsibility for
their safety love to bash the "wacky survivalists". You don't hear about
the survivalists in the media since they are not the ones drowning in
the attics or waiting to be rescued from their roofs.

The survivalists are the ones who took personal responsibility for their
own safety and well being. They assessed the likely risks and made
preparations to deal with them. Whatever survivalists lived in NO have
been sitting warm and dry somewhere safe, watching TV and shaking their
heads at those who expected someone else to take responsibility for
them.

Pete C.


Indeed.

The Survivalists decided that it was time to leave for the Labor Day
weekend early. Nothing 'serious' more of a "Hey all ya'll, you have a nice
time, we're heading up to the lake/grandma's, see you next week." kind of
departure. Just Mr & Mrs Joe Average heading up river for a little R&R.
Okay, so the SUV/RV/Camper/van is a little more heavily laden than
"normal", and they seem bound and determined to get to Aunt Gussy's up in
Arkansas in a hurry, but otherwise ... whats to notice?

Of course, some of them made this trip, oh, three, four years ago.

tschus
pyotr




--
pyotr filipivich
Any entity big enough to meet your needs,
is big enough to decide what those needs should be.

Won't happen in a thousand years -- The representatives in the
high population areas would be voting themselves out of a job.

On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:02:05 -0500, "RAM^3"
wrote:

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
.. .


As Congress is fond of tinkering with the tax code to correct
social problems, I suggest a multiplier be applied to the amount
of corporate and individual income taxes due to the Federal
government based on the population density of your home address,
as indicated by the home's zip+4 postal code. Thus you might pay
1.8X or 180% of the standard income tax with an address in
Manhattan, San Francisco, etc., but only .4X or 40% of the
standard income tax if you lived in Caney, Kansas. The
multiplier can be increased as required to more uniformly
distribute the US population and industry in less
dense/vulnerable ways.


Now all you have to do is to sell your idea to the Congresscritters and
we'll all be set!

BTW, have many "refugees" found their way to CC?

Here [1/2 way between Houston and Victoria] we've had 273 families arrive as
of yesterday. Many are staying with family members but the motels are full,
too.