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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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The recent thread "Violent Electric Drill Accident" got me wondering about
places like Harbor Freight Tools and their product liability. The local store sells an amazing array of dangerous tools. We all know how shoddy and defective some of them are, and notwithstanding the "electric drill accident", surely there are many cases where a faulty tool hurts somebody. What I cannot understand is how they can run a store and sell, oh, angle grinders for $14.99, since they must be getting sued all the time. So much of their stuff is obviously dangerous, and I don't mean in the usual power- tool-requires-common-sense way, such as the toys they sell for children (100 lb go-kart with no effective brakes!) that you can't buy anywhere else because no American firm could survive the lawsuits. Does the Chinese mafia come to visit if you have a "problem"? Does anyone know how HF is organized and defends itself? |
#2
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![]() Richard J Kinch wrote: The recent thread "Violent Electric Drill Accident" got me wondering about places like Harbor Freight Tools and their product liability. The local store sells an amazing array of dangerous tools. We all know how shoddy and defective some of them are, and notwithstanding the "electric drill accident", surely there are many cases where a faulty tool hurts somebody. What I cannot understand is how they can run a store and sell, oh, angle grinders for $14.99, Those are down to less than $10 this week! Time to stock up on stocking stuffers! Jeff (Who confesses to being a loyal HF customer for his "hobby grade" equipment.) -- Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) "I before E except after C"....(The height of insufficient weird ancient science...) since they must be getting sued all the time. So much of their stuff is obviously dangerous, and I don't mean in the usual power- tool-requires-common-sense way, such as the toys they sell for children (100 lb go-kart with no effective brakes!) that you can't buy anywhere else because no American firm could survive the lawsuits. Does the Chinese mafia come to visit if you have a "problem"? Does anyone know how HF is organized and defends itself? |
#3
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:08:48 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote: The recent thread "Violent Electric Drill Accident" got me wondering about places like Harbor Freight Tools and their product liability. The local store sells an amazing array of dangerous tools. We all know how shoddy and defective some of them are, and notwithstanding the "electric drill accident", surely there are many cases where a faulty tool hurts somebody. What I cannot understand is how they can run a store and sell, oh, angle grinders for $14.99, since they must be getting sued all the time. So much of their stuff is obviously dangerous, and I don't mean in the usual power- tool-requires-common-sense way, such as the toys they sell for children (100 lb go-kart with no effective brakes!) that you can't buy anywhere else because no American firm could survive the lawsuits. Does the Chinese mafia come to visit if you have a "problem"? Does anyone know how HF is organized and defends itself? The common method is to make yourself "judgement proof". All profits are expensed out to an "arms length" entity on a monthly basis so the company has no assetts. All property and chattels are leased. No insurance if they can get away with it. Can't get blood out of a stone, so the lawyers take one look, say there is nothing there, and move on. |
#4
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clare wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:08:48 -0500, Richard J Kinch wrote: The recent thread "Violent Electric Drill Accident" got me wondering about places like Harbor Freight Tools and their product liability. The local store sells an amazing array of dangerous tools. We all know how shoddy and defective some of them are, and notwithstanding the "electric drill accident", surely there are many cases where a faulty tool hurts somebody. What I cannot understand is how they can run a store and sell, oh, angle grinders for $14.99, since they must be getting sued all the time. So much of their stuff is obviously dangerous, and I don't mean in the usual power- tool-requires-common-sense way, such as the toys they sell for children (100 lb go-kart with no effective brakes!) that you can't buy anywhere else because no American firm could survive the lawsuits. Does the Chinese mafia come to visit if you have a "problem"? Does anyone know how HF is organized and defends itself? The common method is to make yourself "judgement proof". All profits are expensed out to an "arms length" entity on a monthly basis so the company has no assetts. All property and chattels are leased. No insurance if they can get away with it. Can't get blood out of a stone, so the lawyers take one look, say there is nothing there, and move on. First, the usual 'I am not a lawyer' disclaimer. I doubt that this would work for Harbor Freight. First of all, they have intangible assets such as their 'good name'. Secondly, if they could not pay off a big judgment, the court might order them to be sold at auction to satisfy the debt. |
#5
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Exactly why do you think these things are so dangerous??
Is it based on personal experience, or just the assumption that since it is a shoddy piece of **** it will also hurt you? Exactly what, for instance, is the angle grinder going to do to you? The wheel will fall apart due to wheel defects, maybe, but what does that have to do with the grinder? If you put a decent wheel on it, it's going to be fine. Maybe the gears with disintegrate, but then you will be even safer since it won't be turning. "Ian Stirling" wrote in message ... In rec.crafts.metalworking Jeff Wisnia wrote: Richard J Kinch wrote: The recent thread "Violent Electric Drill Accident" got me wondering about places like Harbor Freight Tools and their product liability. The local store sells an amazing array of dangerous tools. We all know how shoddy and defective some of them are, and notwithstanding the "electric drill accident", surely there are many cases where a faulty tool hurts somebody. What I cannot understand is how they can run a store and sell, oh, angle grinders for $14.99, Those are down to less than $10 this week! Time to stock up on stocking stuffers! I bet they could get another $3 off the price just by gluing the disk on, and omitting the change key... -- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------- ------ "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornfull tone, "It means Just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -- Lewis Carrol |
#7
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:05:55 GMT, the renowned "Keith Marshall"
wrote: But I believe the liabilty would normally fall on the manufacturer rather than the dealer and I don't think I've ever seen a "Harbor Freight" brand tool. They have their house brands that they sell but they do not normally have the Harbor Freight name on them. They're by brands such as Chicago Electric, Pittsburg Tools, etc. which probably only exist in China. Those brands are owned by HF, and the Chinese (or Indian, or Taiwanese) manufacturer "du jour" sticks that name on the product. If the buyer wanted "Sears" or "Snap-On" stuck on there (and plausibly seemed to own the trademark) they'd do that too. The Japanese used that technique to get into the US market in the early days- putting RCA or whatever on their stuff. If there was a nasty lawsuit, all the parties would be named, the importer and the retailer (which may or may not be separate legal entities in the case of HF) would definitely be included. My guess is that they have a hefty product liability insurance policy and you'll be dealing with really sharp insurance company lawyers who can stretch things out for many years if you try to make a claim for whatever stupid thing you did to yourself. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
#8
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Actually, I've returned more broken tools to Sears than I have to HF.....
"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message ... The recent thread "Violent Electric Drill Accident" got me wondering about places like Harbor Freight Tools and their product liability. The local store sells an amazing array of dangerous tools. We all know how shoddy and defective some of them are, and notwithstanding the "electric drill accident", surely there are many cases where a faulty tool hurts somebody. What I cannot understand is how they can run a store and sell, oh, angle grinders for $14.99, since they must be getting sued all the time. So much of their stuff is obviously dangerous, and I don't mean in the usual power- tool-requires-common-sense way, such as the toys they sell for children (100 lb go-kart with no effective brakes!) that you can't buy anywhere else because no American firm could survive the lawsuits. Does the Chinese mafia come to visit if you have a "problem"? Does anyone know how HF is organized and defends itself? |
#9
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:44:35 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote: clare wrote: On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:08:48 -0500, Richard J Kinch wrote: The recent thread "Violent Electric Drill Accident" got me wondering about places like Harbor Freight Tools and their product liability. The local store sells an amazing array of dangerous tools. We all know how shoddy and defective some of them are, and notwithstanding the "electric drill accident", surely there are many cases where a faulty tool hurts somebody. What I cannot understand is how they can run a store and sell, oh, angle grinders for $14.99, since they must be getting sued all the time. So much of their stuff is obviously dangerous, and I don't mean in the usual power- tool-requires-common-sense way, such as the toys they sell for children (100 lb go-kart with no effective brakes!) that you can't buy anywhere else because no American firm could survive the lawsuits. Does the Chinese mafia come to visit if you have a "problem"? Does anyone know how HF is organized and defends itself? The common method is to make yourself "judgement proof". All profits are expensed out to an "arms length" entity on a monthly basis so the company has no assetts. All property and chattels are leased. No insurance if they can get away with it. Can't get blood out of a stone, so the lawyers take one look, say there is nothing there, and move on. First, the usual 'I am not a lawyer' disclaimer. I doubt that this would work for Harbor Freight. First of all, they have intangible assets such as their 'good name'. Secondly, if they could not pay off a big judgment, the court might order them to be sold at auction to satisfy the debt. And if there are no assets to sell???? That is the pivotal assumption. The sale of a corporation with no assets cannot begin to pay damages. If the assets (merchandise) are all owned off shore ( in China) and sold on consignment, there is nothing to sell. NOT saying HF plays this game, but there are many who do, world-wide. |
#10
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:08:48 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote: The recent thread "Violent Electric Drill Accident" got me wondering about places like Harbor Freight Tools and their product liability. snip lame attempt to smear Harbor Freight Does the Chinese mafia come to visit if you have a "problem"? Does anyone know how HF is organized and defends itself? Has anyone sucessfully sued an out-of-business American tool company? If I chop my hand off with my non-OSHA (no belt guard) 1954 King-Seeley table saw, who can I blame? Do some research into why the US light aircraft industry collapsed overnight. The Chinese had nothing to do with it- it was all American lawyers. -Carl "The man who has nothing worth dying for has nothing worth living for"- Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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