On 9/25/2019 6:54 AM, Frank wrote:
On 9/25/2019 3:25 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:59:41 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 9/24/2019 8:27 PM, wrote:
...

I still haven't figured out what AARP has to do with it. I get the
"AARP plan" from United Health Care and I am not an AARP member, nor
did I use them to find the plan. It was an offering presented by IBM.
(who is not chipping in a dime). Perhaps UHC put the plan together for
AARP (or IBM and maybe a dozen other companies) but they will sell it
to anyone with exactly the same terms and conditions.

He's complaining about the Hartford ripoff whole life plans AARP gets
kickback on.

AARP is a scam preying on the older generation.

But what is the scam?Â*Â* Dues are $5 or less a year.Â* That's not going to
break many people.

That people take too seriously an AARP endorsement?Â*Â* I don't konow how
many do but they are free to compare prioces.

I'm glad to hear from 2 or 3 of you that I don't have to continue the
AARP.Â* It's not the money.


I am not a member but my wife is so I am considered an associate member.
Â*I do like their magazine and news letters and have taken their online
defensive driving course and refreshers which saves money on car
insurance.Â* I would think that dues income plus regular magazine ads
would support AARP but not at the level they are as insurance peddlers.

Last data I found was 2016 -- CEO of AARP salary was $700,000

The total income from the AARP Services arm was over $1.2 billion (yes,
with a "B") from all the kickbacks and data on members they sell access to.

The $16/yr annual "dues" is peanuts--the political lobbying organization
is funded by the the subsidiaries you never hear about (for good reason
they don't advertise how they make their money to general public nor
members).

If you're comfortable supporting their political agenda, go for it, but
don't think it's just a little "mom 'n pop" outfit with a magazine or
two and a few flyers in the mail every month. They're a serious PAC in
disguise.

--

Ed Pawlowski writes:
On 9/24/2019 6:46 PM, Frank wrote:


I have no objection with the insurance company and you do get what you
pay for.Â* My beef is with AARP.Â* They take advantage of their membership
to sell them insurance. It is not coming from AARP. They are not an
insurance company themselves.Â* I think most of it is from the Hartford.

So what? Every insurance (and car) salesman I ever knew did the same
thing. They belonged to the VFW, Lions, American Legion, church group,
etc. They prey on fellow members.

My electric company wants to sell me insurance for my water main

Actually, it's far more likely that your electric company (surely you
meant water company?) sold your name and address to a marketing firm who
forwarded to one of the fly-by-night so-called water main/sewer insurance
companies. Your electric or water company doesn't otherwise give a ****.

On 09/25/2019 07:07 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Damn right they did. The PP-ACA made health care available and affordable to many
more Americans than otherwise. Even the private health insurance companies
realized that it was good for them as well as good for their customers and are
quite upset with the GOP.

Certainly they did -- they wrote the damn thing. Max Baucus was rewarded
the ambassadorship to China and his aide, who had done most of the work,
now has a lucrative position in the health care industry. The only
positive outcome was we got rid of Maxie. His only claim to fame was
reliably bringing the bacon home to Montana.

On 9/25/2019 9:05 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Ed Pawlowski writes:


My electric company wants to sell me insurance for my water main

Actually, it's far more likely that your electric company (surely you
meant water company?) sold your name and address to a marketing firm who
forwarded to one of the fly-by-night so-called water main/sewer insurance
companies. Your electric or water company doesn't otherwise give a ****.


Nope, it came in an envelope from Florida Power and Light. I've gotten
them in the past from other sources too. Mostly a scam.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 13:05:31 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski writes:
On 9/24/2019 6:46 PM, Frank wrote:


I have no objection with the insurance company and you do get what you
pay for.ÂÂ* My beef is with AARP.ÂÂ* They take advantage of their membership
to sell them insurance. It is not coming from AARP. They are not an
insurance company themselves.ÂÂ* I think most of it is from the Hartford.

So what? Every insurance (and car) salesman I ever knew did the same
thing. They belonged to the VFW, Lions, American Legion, church group,
etc. They prey on fellow members.

My electric company wants to sell me insurance for my water main

Actually, it's far more likely that your electric company (surely you
meant water company?) sold your name and address to a marketing firm who
forwarded to one of the fly-by-night so-called water main/sewer insurance
companies. Your electric or water company doesn't otherwise give a ****.

I don't have a water company nor a water main and I still get those
ads. I agree it is a scam.

In article ,
says...

**I considered it for a while and the thing he denies was the advantage
of a reverse mortgage. Instead of having a house that no one wanted in
my estate, there would either be money that everyone wants, or money I
would have already spent. (I considered an annuity too, but then I'd
still be dead and stuck with a house. It's very hard to fix up your
house for sale, and to sell it, when you're dead.)



I have not really looked into the reverse morgage. It might be a great
thing for the few that do not have children or others they want to leave
money to.

I went to school with a girl that was an only child. She died around 40
years old. That left her parents with no close relative to leave
anything to. They did not need the reverse morgage thing as their
estate was worth over 5 million of cash, stocks, bonds, ect.
Had they not had that kind of money I could see the morgage.

From what little I have heard about the annuity, it is not very good for
most either.

I will just stick to the money in my IRA being handled by mutual funds
and about another 10 % more that I am playing around with myself in the
stock market. The SS and pension will pay the bills and the other money
if for pleasure items.

In article ,
says...

But what is the scam? Dues are $5 or less a year. That's not going to
break many people.

That people take too seriously an AARP endorsement? I don't konow how
many do but they are free to compare prio


A few years back the AARP started getting into political items that I do
not think represent older people one way or the other.

My biggest gripe was they were backing major gun control issues.

That is around the time I was just getting of AARP age. I quit looking
into them after that. Don't know what they are up to now and do not
care.

Most magazines charge advertisers by how many magazines they sell. So
they can afford to almost give away the magazines to get the bigger
advertising money.

Ed Pawlowski writes:
On 9/25/2019 9:05 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Ed Pawlowski writes:


My electric company wants to sell me insurance for my water main

Actually, it's far more likely that your electric company (surely you
meant water company?) sold your name and address to a marketing firm who
forwarded to one of the fly-by-night so-called water main/sewer insurance
companies. Your electric or water company doesn't otherwise give a ****.


Nope, it came in an envelope from Florida Power and Light. I've gotten
them in the past from other sources too. Mostly a scam.

I'd double-check the envelope. It's not uncommon for those "insurance"
companies to use a utility logo on the envelope; the 'water line
maintenance insurance' mailings have the local water company listed on the
envelope, but it's not from the water company.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 17:34:12 GMT, (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

Ed Pawlowski writes:
On 9/25/2019 9:05 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Ed Pawlowski writes:


My electric company wants to sell me insurance for my water main

Actually, it's far more likely that your electric company (surely you
meant water company?) sold your name and address to a marketing firm who
forwarded to one of the fly-by-night so-called water main/sewer insurance
companies. Your electric or water company doesn't otherwise give a ****.


Nope, it came in an envelope from Florida Power and Light. I've gotten
them in the past from other sources too. Mostly a scam.

I'd double-check the envelope. It's not uncommon for those "insurance"
companies to use a utility logo on the envelope; the 'water line
maintenance insurance' mailings have the local water company listed on the
envelope, but it's not from the water company.

Exactly. I almost bit because it was cheap insurance. Then I googled and found the payout
wasn't worth it.

On 9/25/2019 1:34 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Ed Pawlowski writes:
On 9/25/2019 9:05 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Ed Pawlowski writes:


My electric company wants to sell me insurance for my water main

Actually, it's far more likely that your electric company (surely you
meant water company?) sold your name and address to a marketing firm who
forwarded to one of the fly-by-night so-called water main/sewer insurance
companies. Your electric or water company doesn't otherwise give a ****.


Nope, it came in an envelope from Florida Power and Light. I've gotten
them in the past from other sources too. Mostly a scam.

I'd double-check the envelope. It's not uncommon for those "insurance"
companies to use a utility logo on the envelope; the 'water line
maintenance insurance' mailings have the local water company listed on the
envelope, but it's not from the water company.


I know how to read. Of course they are getting a commission, not
actually doing the insurance. The monthly premium would be added to my
electric bill. I plainly states that.

On 9/25/2019 11:57 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

**I considered it for a while and the thing he denies was the advantage
of a reverse mortgage. Instead of having a house that no one wanted in
my estate, there would either be money that everyone wants, or money I
would have already spent. (I considered an annuity too, but then I'd
still be dead and stuck with a house. It's very hard to fix up your
house for sale, and to sell it, when you're dead.)



I have not really looked into the reverse morgage. It might be a great
thing for the few that do not have children or others they want to leave
money to.


Reverse mortgage is good if you actually need the money and can live
better.

As for leaving money, I already gave my kids the ability to earn a
living. If anything is left, good for them but they would rather I
enjoy life and spend as I see fit.

I know an older couple that had modest retirement income. They had a
big expense for the septic system and took a reverse mortgage. Took
care of that an a few other little things that made them more
comfortable. They are gone and the house, AFAIK, was left to the nurse
that took care of her near the end.

On 9/25/2019 11:02 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

But what is the scam? Dues are $5 or less a year. That's not going to
break many people.

That people take too seriously an AARP endorsement? I don't konow how
many do but they are free to compare prio


A few years back the AARP started getting into political items that I do
not think represent older people one way or the other.

My biggest gripe was they were backing major gun control issues.

That is around the time I was just getting of AARP age. I quit looking
into them after that. Don't know what they are up to now and do not
care.
....

They have always been a very leftwards-leaning political action group
for far more than just "a few years".

About 20 yr ago they became truly serious about fleecing for their
political and personal agendas and formed the AARP Services subsidiary
of the nonprofit that turns over $1B/yr in revenue. Almost all of this
is from selling data and kickbacks from Hartford and the like whose
products they tout.

The CEO is raking in about $700K/yr, I'm sure the other officers are
also not paupers. No telling how much is funneled to insiders through
other means that aren't required to be reported openly.

--


--

On 9/25/2019 2:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/25/2019 11:57 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

**I considered it for a while and the thing he denies was the advantage
of a reverse mortgage. Instead of having a house that no one wanted in
my estate, there would either be money that everyone wants, or money I
would have already spent.Â*Â*Â* (I considered an annuity too, but then I'd
still be dead and stuck with a house.Â* It's very hard to fix up your
house for sale, and to sell it, when you're dead.)



I have not really looked into the reverse morgage.Â* It might be a great
thing for the few that do not have children or others they want to leave
money to.


Reverse mortgage is good if you actually need the money and can live
better.

As for leaving money, I already gave my kids the ability to earn a
living.Â* If anything is left, good for them but they would rather I
enjoy life and spend as I see fit.

I know an older couple that had modest retirement income.Â* They had a
big expense for the septic system and took a reverse mortgage.Â* Took
care of that an a few other little things that made them more
comfortable.Â* They are gone and the house, AFAIK, was left to the nurse
that took care of her near the end.

They are made to sound good by the purveyors, but ever wonder what is in
it for them? As with annuities what you get is an actuarially adjusted
amount based on the equity held in the property at the time and your
age. Virtually always one would be far better off financially to just
sell the property on the open market, take the lump sum payout of the
equity and live in a less expensive location while investing part of the
proceeds.

Specific downsides include

- If youve not paid off your mortgage the interest on the reverse
mortgage loan compounds with the original interest and it can quickly
balloon out of control.

- Unlike a traditional home equity loan, you are not making payments on
the principle and interest. So while your heirs are not on the hook for
the loan, compound interest, fees, and fluctuations in the market can
increase the likelihood they will be unable to retain the home when you
are gone.

- You must remain there and continue to pay property taxes, maintenance
and insurance. If you change your mind and want to move to FL or need
assisted living or any number of other potentially unforeseen
circumstances, if you break the covenant you lose the house and the
reverse mortgage cash flow besides.

Verdict:

Reverse mortgages may be a way to get financial relief if you have no
one to pass your house to when youre gone. Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

--

On 2019-09-25 1:58 p.m., dpb wrote:
On 9/25/2019 2:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/25/2019 11:57 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

**I considered it for a while and the thing he denies was the advantage
of a reverse mortgage. Instead of having a house that no one wanted in
my estate, there would either be money that everyone wants, or money I
would have already spent.Â*Â*Â* (I considered an annuity too, but then I'd
still be dead and stuck with a house.Â* It's very hard to fix up your
house for sale, and to sell it, when you're dead.)



I have not really looked into the reverse morgage.Â* It might be a great
thing for the few that do not have children or others they want to leave
money to.


Reverse mortgage is good if you actually need the money and can live
better.

As for leaving money, I already gave my kids the ability to earn a
living.Â* If anything is left, good for them but they would rather I
enjoy life and spend as I see fit.

I know an older couple that had modest retirement income.Â* They had a
big expense for the septic system and took a reverse mortgage.Â* Took
care of that an a few other little things that made them more
comfortable.Â* They are gone and the house, AFAIK, was left to the
nurse that took care of her near the end.

They are made to sound good by the purveyors, but ever wonder what is in
it for them?Â* As with annuities what you get is an actuarially adjusted
amount based on the equity held in the property at the time and your
age.Â* Virtually always one would be far better off financially to just
sell the property on the open market, take the lump sum payout of the
equity and live in a less expensive location while investing part of the
proceeds.

Specific downsides include

- If youve not paid off your mortgage the interest on the reverse
mortgage loan compounds with the original interest and it can quickly
balloon out of control.

- Unlike a traditional home equity loan, you are not making payments on
the principle and interest. So while your heirs are not on the hook for
the loan, compound interest, fees, and fluctuations in the market can
increase the likelihood they will be unable to retain the home when you
are gone.

- You must remain there and continue to pay property taxes, maintenance
and insurance.Â* If you change your mind and want to move to FL or need
assisted living or any number of other potentially unforeseen
circumstances, if you break the covenant you lose the house and the
reverse mortgage cash flow besides.

Verdict:

Reverse mortgages may be a way to get financial relief if you have no
one to pass your house to when youre gone.Â* Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

--

what will i care , i'm dead

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:58:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 9/25/2019 2:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/25/2019 11:57 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

**I considered it for a while and the thing he denies was the advantage
of a reverse mortgage. Instead of having a house that no one wanted in
my estate, there would either be money that everyone wants, or money I
would have already spent.Â*Â*Â* (I considered an annuity too, but then I'd
still be dead and stuck with a house.Â* It's very hard to fix up your
house for sale, and to sell it, when you're dead.)



I have not really looked into the reverse morgage.Â* It might be a great
thing for the few that do not have children or others they want to leave
money to.


Reverse mortgage is good if you actually need the money and can live
better.

As for leaving money, I already gave my kids the ability to earn a
living.Â* If anything is left, good for them but they would rather I
enjoy life and spend as I see fit.

I know an older couple that had modest retirement income.Â* They had a
big expense for the septic system and took a reverse mortgage.Â* Took
care of that an a few other little things that made them more
comfortable.Â* They are gone and the house, AFAIK, was left to the nurse
that took care of her near the end.

They are made to sound good by the purveyors, but ever wonder what is in
it for them? As with annuities what you get is an actuarially adjusted
amount based on the equity held in the property at the time and your
age. Virtually always one would be far better off financially to just
sell the property on the open market, take the lump sum payout of the
equity and live in a less expensive location while investing part of the
proceeds.

Specific downsides include

- If youve not paid off your mortgage the interest on the reverse
mortgage loan compounds with the original interest and it can quickly
balloon out of control.

- Unlike a traditional home equity loan, you are not making payments on
the principle and interest. So while your heirs are not on the hook for
the loan, compound interest, fees, and fluctuations in the market can
increase the likelihood they will be unable to retain the home when you
are gone.

- You must remain there and continue to pay property taxes, maintenance
and insurance. If you change your mind and want to move to FL or need
assisted living or any number of other potentially unforeseen
circumstances, if you break the covenant you lose the house and the
reverse mortgage cash flow besides.

Verdict:

Reverse mortgages may be a way to get financial relief if you have no
one to pass your house to when youre gone. Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

Damn. And I always trusted Tom Selleck had my best interests at heart.
Guess not.

On 9/25/2019 12:02 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

But what is the scam? Dues are $5 or less a year. That's not going to
break many people.

That people take too seriously an AARP endorsement? I don't konow how
many do but they are free to compare prio


A few years back the AARP started getting into political items that I do
not think represent older people one way or the other.

My biggest gripe was they were backing major gun control issues.

That is around the time I was just getting of AARP age. I quit looking
into them after that. Don't know what they are up to now and do not
care.

Most magazines charge advertisers by how many magazines they sell. So
they can afford to almost give away the magazines to get the bigger
advertising money.


I just googled it up and find that the AARP has 38 million members.
Sort of dwarfs the 5 million of us in the NRA.

On 9/25/2019 4:58 PM, dpb wrote:
On 9/25/2019 2:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/25/2019 11:57 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

**I considered it for a while and the thing he denies was the advantage
of a reverse mortgage. Instead of having a house that no one wanted in
my estate, there would either be money that everyone wants, or money I
would have already spent.Â*Â*Â* (I considered an annuity too, but then I'd
still be dead and stuck with a house.Â* It's very hard to fix up your
house for sale, and to sell it, when you're dead.)



I have not really looked into the reverse morgage.Â* It might be a great
thing for the few that do not have children or others they want to leave
money to.


Reverse mortgage is good if you actually need the money and can live
better.

As for leaving money, I already gave my kids the ability to earn a
living.Â* If anything is left, good for them but they would rather I
enjoy life and spend as I see fit.

I know an older couple that had modest retirement income.Â* They had a
big expense for the septic system and took a reverse mortgage.Â* Took
care of that an a few other little things that made them more
comfortable.Â* They are gone and the house, AFAIK, was left to the
nurse that took care of her near the end.

They are made to sound good by the purveyors, but ever wonder what is in
it for them?Â* As with annuities what you get is an actuarially adjusted
amount based on the equity held in the property at the time and your
age.Â* Virtually always one would be far better off financially to just
sell the property on the open market, take the lump sum payout of the
equity and live in a less expensive location while investing part of the
proceeds.

Specific downsides include

- If youve not paid off your mortgage the interest on the reverse
mortgage loan compounds with the original interest and it can quickly
balloon out of control.

- Unlike a traditional home equity loan, you are not making payments on
the principle and interest. So while your heirs are not on the hook for
the loan, compound interest, fees, and fluctuations in the market can
increase the likelihood they will be unable to retain the home when you
are gone.

- You must remain there and continue to pay property taxes, maintenance
and insurance.Â* If you change your mind and want to move to FL or need
assisted living or any number of other potentially unforeseen
circumstances, if you break the covenant you lose the house and the
reverse mortgage cash flow besides.

Verdict:

Reverse mortgages may be a way to get financial relief if you have no
one to pass your house to when youre gone.Â* Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

--


Reverse mortgages, like annuities, have an up front cost that may be a
few percent.

On 9/24/19 10:02 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/24/2019 04:03 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 9/24/19 3:41 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:21:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* I need to sign up for Medicare in the next couple months and was
wondering if anyone had words of wisdom to offer.

And one more thing, Medicare doesn't apply when you are out of the USA,
and aiui all of the supplemental plans only apply when Medicare applies.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* That's one thing I don't have to consider.Â*Â* There is so much to
see and do
in the U.S. that traveling outside the country doesn't appeal to me.Â*Â* I
have a trike and
riding that thing is a completely different experience that in aÂ* closed
vehicle.

How do you like it? I getting close to the point where three wheels
might be better than two. The last time I picked up the VStrom it was a
lot of work. (no drama, I just lost it taking it off the center stand)

It's a 900 Vulcan. It's big enough to get me around at legal
speeds.
Or so. Cornering is a bit odd. It's more work than on a bike. I'm not
really worried about rolling but the possibility exists. The temptation
to lean will probably always be with me. The storage space is sure
nice. I think I'd want a reverse
gear if it was bigger. I just try to find a spot where backing up
isn't necessary.
I put some LEDs on the rear fenders for brake lights and turn signals
for more visibility than it had. I bought it because I wanted to ride
well into old age. I'd buy a trike again if I had a do over.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 18:42:59 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 9/25/2019 12:02 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

But what is the scam? Dues are $5 or less a year. That's not going to
break many people.

That people take too seriously an AARP endorsement? I don't konow how
many do but they are free to compare prio


A few years back the AARP started getting into political items that I do
not think represent older people one way or the other.

My biggest gripe was they were backing major gun control issues.

That is around the time I was just getting of AARP age. I quit looking
into them after that. Don't know what they are up to now and do not
care.

Most magazines charge advertisers by how many magazines they sell. So
they can afford to almost give away the magazines to get the bigger
advertising money.


I just googled it up and find that the AARP has 38 million members.
Sort of dwarfs the 5 million of us in the NRA.


That really sounds more like their mailing list than an actual paid
membership.
there are less than 41 million people total, over 55 according to the
census bureau

On 09/25/2019 09:51 AM, wrote:
The ACA was a big wet kiss to the insurance companies "written by a
couple of WellCare lobbyists" according to Howard Dean and all it
really did was bring 40 million new customers to the insurance
companies at the point of a government gun, 77% of them on the backs
of the tax payers.

Yup and Max Baucus D-MT was their shabbas goy.

On 9/25/2019 4:58 PM, dpb wrote:


I know an older couple that had modest retirement income.Â* They had a
big expense for the septic system and took a reverse mortgage.Â* Took
care of that an a few other little things that made them more
comfortable.Â* They are gone and the house, AFAIK, was left to the
nurse that took care of her near the end.

They are made to sound good by the purveyors, but ever wonder what is in
it for them?Â* As with annuities what you get is an actuarially adjusted
amount based on the equity held in the property at the time and your
age.Â* Virtually always one would be far better off financially to just
sell the property on the open market, take the lump sum payout of the
equity and live in a less expensive location while investing part of the
proceeds.

Specific downsides include

- If youve not paid off your mortgage the interest on the reverse
mortgage loan compounds with the original interest and it can quickly
balloon out of control.

- Unlike a traditional home equity loan, you are not making payments on
the principle and interest. So while your heirs are not on the hook for
the loan, compound interest, fees, and fluctuations in the market can
increase the likelihood they will be unable to retain the home when you
are gone.

- You must remain there and continue to pay property taxes, maintenance
and insurance.Â* If you change your mind and want to move to FL or need
assisted living or any number of other potentially unforeseen
circumstances, if you break the covenant you lose the house and the
reverse mortgage cash flow besides.

Verdict:

Reverse mortgages may be a way to get financial relief if you have no
one to pass your house to when youre gone.Â* Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

--

Depends on circumstances. If you die shortly after and the house is
sold, the mortgage is paid off and the balance, if any, goes to the
heirs. Naturally, the mortgage company already got their fees and costs
out of it.

If you live well beyond the actuarial age of death you come out ahead
and the mortgage company eats the loss from time. I have no idea what
age they use in their determination, but if it is 80 and you live to 95,
you did good.

I'm sure people make poor decisions and take the money when they should
not and get in fiscal trouble down the road. Especially bad if you
cannot pay the upkeep and have to bail out. Just as you point out if
the original mortgage is no already paid it can be a bad decision. I
always figured by retirement time you should have paid off your house,
but a lot of peole have not.

On 09/25/2019 06:29 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
It's a 900 Vulcan. It's big enough to get me around at legal speeds.
Or so. Cornering is a bit odd. It's more work than on a bike. I'm not
really worried about rolling but the possibility exists. The temptation
to lean will probably always be with me. The storage space is sure
nice. I think I'd want a reverse
gear if it was bigger. I just try to find a spot where backing up
isn't necessary.
I put some LEDs on the rear fenders for brake lights and turn signals
for more visibility than it had. I bought it because I wanted to ride
well into old age. I'd buy a trike again if I had a do over.

Which conversion? I've seen one that doesn't look bad but it's more like
training wheels so you have 3 in back. I've thought about a sidecar too.
DMC makes some nice ones in the $6-7000 range. I've got a DR650, a
DL650, and a Sportster so it would be hard deciding which one. Or I
could go with a Ural if we don't declare war on Russia first. I think
they've improved from being basically a new 1939 BMW.

Then there's the purpose build. The new Can-Am Ryker is interesting but
the nearest dealer is in Spokane. The Harley ice cream wagons are a
little rich for my blood.

Then there is that 'odd'. A guy tried to talk me into a test ride on one
of the Piaggio three wheel leaners but I balked. I figured if any
surprises came up I'd do exactly the wrong thing.

Supposed to snow this weekend so I'll have a while to chew on it.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:58:13 -0500, dpb
wrote:

On 9/25/2019 2:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/25/2019 11:57 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

**I considered it for a while and the thing he denies was the advantage
of a reverse mortgage. Instead of having a house that no one wanted in
my estate, there would either be money that everyone wants, or money I
would have already spent.*** (I considered an annuity too, but then I'd
still be dead and stuck with a house.* It's very hard to fix up your
house for sale, and to sell it, when you're dead.)



I have not really looked into the reverse morgage.* It might be a great
thing for the few that do not have children or others they want to leave
money to.


Reverse mortgage is good if you actually need the money and can live
better.

As for leaving money, I already gave my kids the ability to earn a
living.* If anything is left, good for them but they would rather I
enjoy life and spend as I see fit.

I know an older couple that had modest retirement income.* They had a
big expense for the septic system and took a reverse mortgage.* Took
care of that an a few other little things that made them more
comfortable.* They are gone and the house, AFAIK, was left to the nurse
that took care of her near the end.

They are made to sound good by the purveyors, but ever wonder what is in
it for them? As with annuities what you get is an actuarially adjusted
amount based on the equity held in the property at the time and your
age. Virtually always one would be far better off financially to just
sell the property on the open market,

Well sure, but then you have to move out.

take the lump sum payout of the
equity and live in a less expensive location while investing part of the
proceeds.

That's okay if you're willing to live in a less expensive location. I
don't want to. The only thing that would make me leave here is if I'm
too sick to live alone. (Or I meet a rich young babe who wants me to
live with her.)

And even with living in a less expensive place, you're talking about
investing money. Why do I want investments when I have no children to
leave them to. At least when I thought I was short of money, I wanted
to spend all my money before I died, but only one second before I die.

That's what annuities do.

Since I don't know when I will die, i can't know how to apportion my
spending.

Specific downsides include

Okay, this looks good. The last time I brought this up, all I got was
"There are a lot of charges".


- If you’ve not paid off your mortgage the interest on the reverse
mortgage loan compounds with the original interest and it can quickly
balloon out of control.

Compound interest. Works when you're earning it, and also why you're
obliged to pay it. If you can't pay it, they'll foreclose, or
whatever it's called, but inability to pay your bills, like rent, is a
big problem even without a reverse mortgage.

- Unlike a traditional home equity loan, you are not making payments on
the principle and interest. So while your heirs are not on the hook for
the loan, compound interest, fees, and fluctuations in the market can
increase the likelihood they will be unable to retain the home when you
are gone.

Of course they will need to pay all that to keep the house. But I have
no heirs.

- You must remain there and continue to pay property taxes, maintenance
and insurance.

Sure, those expenses are why you didn't have enough money in the first
place.

If you change your mind and want to move to FL or need
assisted living

the most likely, or a nursing home.

or any number of other potentially unforeseen
circumstances, if you break the covenant you lose the house and the
reverse mortgage cash flow besides.

This raises a question. You can still pay off the debt, can't you, a
debt that may be much less than the value of the house? Not that
someone with little money and no heirs can do this but someone who
should never have bought the reverse mortgage in the first place, who
has heirs who might want the house, if only to sell it at market price,
can pay off the debt, keep the house, and sell it for more, right? If
not the detective guy from Hawaii is even more misleading.

I need to learn more about this part.

Verdict:

Reverse mortgages may be a way to get financial relief if you have no
one to pass your house to when you’re gone.

There are a lot of people like that. Either with no heirs or so little
money they can't afford to leave anything to anyone, and they have to
maximize what they have. (For years I thought I was like that.)

It still seems that annuities and reverse mortgages are the only ways to
do that. A problem with annuities seems to be that their payments
stay the same but inflation raises prices, age requires one to hire
peole for things he used to do himself, and likely increased sickness
can raise costs enormously. Are there annuities that pay less at the
start and more as time goes on? If not, I guess you have to save money
in the early years, which if I die early leaves the problem I didn't
want, money in the bank when I die.

Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

Again, then you have no place to live.

I'm sure some will try to sell annuities and reverse mortgages to people
who shouldnt' buy them.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:22:14 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:


Damn. And I always trusted Tom Selleck had my best interests at heart.
Guess not.

Tom Selleck!! That's his name. It amazes me what celebrities will do
for money. He would be all right here if not for the line "People think
it's just another way to get your house."

But who really gets me is the guy from Jeopardy. He's been doign that
show for 20 years or more, must have loads of money and still he does
those terrible insurance commercials.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 10:06:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:


Nope, it came in an envelope from Florida Power and Light. I've gotten
them in the past from other sources too. Mostly a scam.

This is off-topic, but once I bought a car from what I thought was a
private party, and her boyfriend had a rentacar company, probably with
just his car and her car and his parents' cars, and he registered the
car for me, spelled my name wrong.

In the 4 years it took me to correct the spelling, I only got one sales
letter, from something like a used car lot not too far from here.

So it looked like the DMV sold my name and address, but just once.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 19:29:27 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 9/24/19 10:02 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/24/2019 04:03 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 9/24/19 3:41 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:21:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

***** I need to sign up for Medicare in the next couple months and was
wondering if anyone had words of wisdom to offer.

And one more thing, Medicare doesn't apply when you are out of the USA,
and aiui all of the supplemental plans only apply when Medicare applies.

****** That's one thing I don't have to consider.** There is so much to
see and do
in the U.S. that traveling outside the country doesn't appeal to me.** I
have a trike and
riding that thing is a completely different experience that in a* closed
vehicle.

How do you like it? I getting close to the point where three wheels
might be better than two. The last time I picked up the VStrom it was a
lot of work. (no drama, I just lost it taking it off the center stand)

It's a 900 Vulcan. It's big enough to get me around at legal
speeds.
Or so. Cornering is a bit odd. It's more work than on a bike. I'm not

Confused. Pictures I see of the 900 Vulcan shows it as a bike, not a
trike:

https://www.kawasaki.com/Products/20...an-900-Classic

really worried about rolling but the possibility exists. The temptation
to lean will probably always be with me. The storage space is sure
nice. I think I'd want a reverse
gear if it was bigger. I just try to find a spot where backing up
isn't necessary.
I put some LEDs on the rear fenders for brake lights and turn signals
for more visibility than it had. I bought it because I wanted to ride
well into old age. I'd buy a trike again if I had a do over.

On 9/26/2019 4:41 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:58:13 -0500, dpb
wrote:
....

Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

Again, then you have no place to live.

You buy within your means or rent--with the advantage that if in the
future you need assisted living or your plans change you have complete
flexibility to make those decisions later.

I'm sure some will try to sell annuities and reverse mortgages to people
who shouldnt' buy them.

Indeed, they're both high expense, high commission products just as
whole life policies like those the Hartford peddles thru AARP that are
generally very poor comparatively as far as net return to the purchaser
as compared to alternatives.

Even if you have no heirs, why not still try to optimize your return
strategy while still living and then, instead of giving what you've
worked for your entire life to some insurance or mortgage company or the
government, why not find a charitable institution or other purpose that
you have a passion for to make use of those funds going forward?

--

On 9/26/2019 7:57 AM, dpb wrote:
On 9/26/2019 4:41 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:58:13 -0500, dpb
wrote:
...

Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

Again, then you have no place to live.

You buy within your means or rent--with the advantage that if in the
future you need assisted living or your plans change you have complete
flexibility to make those decisions later.

I'm sure some will try to sell annuities and reverse mortgages to people
who shouldnt' buy them.

Indeed, they're both high expense, high commission products just as
whole life policies like those the Hartford peddles thru AARP that are
generally very poor comparatively as far as net return to the purchaser
as compared to alternatives.

Even if you have no heirs, why not still try to optimize your return
strategy while still living and then, instead of giving what you've
worked for your entire life to some insurance or mortgage company or the
government, why not find a charitable institution or other purpose that
you have a passion for to make use of those funds going forward?

--


Good advice.
When I hear of these heavily advertised products I feel that there is
more in it for them than for me.

On 9/26/19 5:41 AM, micky wrote:
There are a lot of people like that. Either with no heirs or so little
money they can't afford to leave anything to anyone, and they have to
maximize what they have. (For years I thought I was like that.)


Maybe you could join a socialist commune? You'd have to turn all your assets over to "the group" but it could be a good option for a leftard socialist democrat.

On 09/26/2019 03:59 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 19:29:27 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 9/24/19 10:02 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/24/2019 04:03 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 9/24/19 3:41 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:21:48 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

I need to sign up for Medicare in the next couple months and was
wondering if anyone had words of wisdom to offer.
And one more thing, Medicare doesn't apply when you are out of the USA,
and aiui all of the supplemental plans only apply when Medicare applies.

That's one thing I don't have to consider. There is so much to
see and do
in the U.S. that traveling outside the country doesn't appeal to me. I
have a trike and
riding that thing is a completely different experience that in a closed
vehicle.
How do you like it? I getting close to the point where three wheels
might be better than two. The last time I picked up the VStrom it was a
lot of work. (no drama, I just lost it taking it off the center stand)

It's a 900 Vulcan. It's big enough to get me around at legal
speeds.
Or so. Cornering is a bit odd. It's more work than on a bike. I'm not
Confused. Pictures I see of the 900 Vulcan shows it as a bike, not a
trike:

A number of companies make conversion kits for bikes.

https://www.richlandroadster.com/

Some have a scheme for reverse using an electric motor. You don't
realize it driving a car but there are parking places that aren't
exactly level. The city has some diagonal parking areas. With the crown
on city streets it can be quite a slope down toward the curb. Nothing
like trying to paddle backwards on an 800 pound bike. I always back in
for a quick getaway.

On 09/26/2019 06:39 AM, Alexandria 0casio-Cortez wrote:
On 9/26/19 5:41 AM, micky wrote:
There are a lot of people like that. Either with no heirs or so little
money they can't afford to leave anything to anyone, and they have to
maximize what they have. (For years I thought I was like that.)


Maybe you could join a socialist commune? You'd have to turn all your
assets over to "the group" but it could be a good option for a leftard
socialist democrat.

"As for these communities, I think I had rather keep bachelors hall in
hell than go board in heaven."

Henry David Thoreau

There were leftists in 1841, running around whining about abolition and
temperance. Nothing changes. And, yes, their communes were cluster****s.
Look up Brook Farm or Fruitlands.

On 9/26/2019 7:57 AM, dpb wrote:
On 9/26/2019 4:41 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:58:13 -0500, dpb
wrote:
...

Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

Again, then you have no place to live.

You buy within your means or rent--with the advantage that if in the
future you need assisted living or your plans change you have complete
flexibility to make those decisions later.

I'm sure some will try to sell annuities and reverse mortgages to people
who shouldnt' buy them.

Indeed, they're both high expense, high commission products just as
whole life policies like those the Hartford peddles thru AARP that are
generally very poor comparatively as far as net return to the purchaser
as compared to alternatives.

Even if you have no heirs, why not still try to optimize your return
strategy while still living and then, instead of giving what you've
worked for your entire life to some insurance or mortgage company or the
government, why not find a charitable institution or other purpose that
you have a passion for to make use of those funds going forward?

--

That depends on your situation. If you are living comfortably, fine,
charity is good. OTOH, if you don't have enough to meet normal living
expenses or for an expensive home repair, a reverse mortgage makes a lot
more sense than surviving on cat food because that is all you can afford.

On 9/26/2019 8:19 AM, Frank wrote:
On 9/26/2019 7:57 AM, dpb wrote:
On 9/26/2019 4:41 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:58:13 -0500, dpb
wrote:
...

Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

Again, then you have no place to live.

You buy within your means or rent--with the advantage that if in the
future you need assisted living or your plans change you have complete
flexibility to make those decisions later.

I'm sure some will try to sell annuities and reverse mortgages to people
who shouldnt' buy them.

Indeed, they're both high expense, high commission products just as
whole life policies like those the Hartford peddles thru AARP that are
generally very poor comparatively as far as net return to the
purchaser as compared to alternatives.

Even if you have no heirs, why not still try to optimize your return
strategy while still living and then, instead of giving what you've
worked for your entire life to some insurance or mortgage company or
the government, why not find a charitable institution or other purpose
that you have a passion for to make use of those funds going forward?

--


Good advice.
When I hear of these heavily advertised products I feel that there is
more in it for them than for me.

Sure, just like getting a home equity loan and using your house like a
piggy bank. I'd rather have a paid off house than a 2 week Disney
vacation from a loan.

Depends on circumstances. Could be devastating done wrong, or a life
saver if done when really needed.

On 9/26/2019 8:39 AM, Alexandria 0casio-Cortez wrote:
On 9/26/19 5:41 AM, micky wrote:
There are a lot of people like that. Either with no heirs or so little
money they can't afford to leave anything to anyone, and they have to
maximize what they have.Â*Â* (For years I thought I was like that.)


Maybe you could join a socialist commune?Â* You'd have to turn all your
assets over to "the group" but it could be a good option for a leftard
socialist democrat.


I'd do that if it was a hippie thing with free love and people run
around naked. Please forward me the address while I pack.

On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 7:57:35 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 9/26/2019 4:41 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:58:13 -0500, dpb
wrote:
...

Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

Again, then you have no place to live.

You buy within your means or rent--with the advantage that if in the
future you need assisted living or your plans change you have complete
flexibility to make those decisions later.

I don't know what the average case is, but my mother could never live
anywhere more cheaply than in her house. Her annual property taxes are
$846. How many months of rent would that pay for anywhere?

She took out a reverse-mortgage a few years ago to get some much-needed
repairs done on her house. I don't expect to realize a single cent on
her estate.

Cindy Hamilton

Cindy Hamilton

In article , "frank says...

Good advice.
When I hear of these heavily advertised products I feel that there is
more in it for them than for me.



That is the way I look at it.

My doctor keeps wanting me to get on some of the colerstol drugs. My
numbers are just on the high side of 'nornal'. I am in very good health
at 69 years old. I told him that anything that is advertised on TV I
did not want anything to do with it.

I try to advoid most advertised products. One day I came in from
working in the yard to cool off. I fliped on the TV and there was an
infomercial on a Worx cart. I looked at it and thought something like
that may be useful to me. I think they wanted you to order one for
about $ 150 or so. Just for the fun of it I looked on ebay and found it
for just over $ 100. Decided to get it. It surprised me, but it has
came in very useful over the last 3 years. It is not for big jobs, but
for say moving a bag or 2 of furtlizer at a time it does work well. I
am at the point of not wanting to do any big jobs an having 2 wheels
makes it much easier than a single wheel wheelborow.

On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 10:15:23 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/26/2019 8:39 AM, Alexandria 0casio-Cortez wrote:
On 9/26/19 5:41 AM, micky wrote:
There are a lot of people like that. Either with no heirs or so little
money they can't afford to leave anything to anyone, and they have to
maximize what they have.Â*Â* (For years I thought I was like that.)


Maybe you could join a socialist commune?Â* You'd have to turn all your
assets over to "the group" but it could be a good option for a leftard
socialist democrat.


I'd do that if it was a hippie thing with free love and people run
around naked. Please forward me the address while I pack.

You know of a place like that in St. Louis.

Cindy Hamilton

On 9/26/2019 10:19 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 7:57:35 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 9/26/2019 4:41 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:58:13 -0500, dpb
wrote:
...

Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

Again, then you have no place to live.

You buy within your means or rent--with the advantage that if in the
future you need assisted living or your plans change you have complete
flexibility to make those decisions later.

I don't know what the average case is, but my mother could never live
anywhere more cheaply than in her house. Her annual property taxes are
$846. How many months of rent would that pay for anywhere?

Cindy Hamilton


Would she consider moving to St, Louis? I am.

On 9/26/2019 9:01 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/26/2019 7:57 AM, dpb wrote:
On 9/26/2019 4:41 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:58:13 -0500, dpb
wrote:
...

Otherwise, almost certainly
a bad idea and as noted, virtually always one could come out better by
simply selling the property straight out.

Again, then you have no place to live.

You buy within your means or rent--with the advantage that if in the
future you need assisted living or your plans change you have complete
flexibility to make those decisions later.

I'm sure some will try to sell annuities and reverse mortgages to people
who shouldnt' buy them.

Indeed, they're both high expense, high commission products just as
whole life policies like those the Hartford peddles thru AARP that are
generally very poor comparatively as far as net return to the
purchaser as compared to alternatives.

Even if you have no heirs, why not still try to optimize your return
strategy while still living and then, instead of giving what you've
worked for your entire life to some insurance or mortgage company or
the government, why not find a charitable institution or other purpose
that you have a passion for to make use of those funds going forward?

--

That depends on your situation.Â* If you are living comfortably, fine,
charity is good.Â* OTOH, if you don't have enough to meet normal living
expenses or for an expensive home repair, a reverse mortgage makes a lot
more sense than surviving on cat food because that is all you can afford.

Perhaps but probably still not the best overall financial alternative.
The discounted rate one gets isn't great return from ROI perspective and
if the house is not in good repair it'll be discounted even further.
Plus, it's a forever decision.

Philanthropy here is in terms of the estate, not current.

--

In article , says...

Sure, just like getting a home equity loan and using your house like a
piggy bank. I'd rather have a paid off house than a 2 week Disney
vacation from a loan.




For vacations, I can see that. For other things it may be the way to
go. If an emergency comes up , say your roof starts leaking and you
need some money, it is better to get the home loan at a lower rate than
the 20 plus percent other loans charge. I have not had to do it in a
while,but is the home loan interist still tac deductiable ?

About 20 years ago I took a big gamble. A local savings and loan
company was about to go public. By having some money in it, I could buy
their stock before it hit the general market. I was told by a good
advisor to get some of it as they usually go way up in a short period of
time. I borrowed $ 25,000 on the home loan to buy the stock. About a
month later the stock went up about 25 % so I sold off about $ 5000 work
and put it in the bank. I used that money to pay back the loan each
month. After about a year the stock had doubled , so I sold it all off.
So I think I was ahead over $ 20,000 just by getting a big loan on the
house.