On 5/30/2017 5:43 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 11:40:34 PM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 2:12 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/29/2017 1:20 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 7:10 AM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/28/2017 11:13 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/28/2017 7:02 PM, Meanie wrote:

you cannot prove the existence of a supreme being.

You cannot prove the existence of love, hate, envy, etc. You can only
show examples of what you think is a result of it.


They are emotions/mental state and proved when displaying the act of
that emotion.

So, belief in a God can be either or both an emotion/mental state and is
proved when displaying that belief, according to your reasoning.

I'm not disputing the "belief" in God. Anyone can believe as they wish,
it doesn't mean it's true. Many people once believed the world was flat,
but it wasn't true. Kids believe in Santa Clause and the tooth fairy
until they discover its not true. Unfortunately, adults who are raised
to believe in a God can't accept the truth he doesn't exist. Therefore,

How do you explain adults who weren't raised to believe in a God, yet,
they still do?

Some people just need Somebody to lean on. They come to belief later
in life.



What is wrong with humans needing someone to lean on? We're a social animal.

--
Maggie

On 5/30/2017 5:47 AM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/29/2017 11:40 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 2:12 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/29/2017 1:20 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 7:10 AM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/28/2017 11:13 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/28/2017 7:02 PM, Meanie wrote:

you cannot prove the existence of a supreme being.

You cannot prove the existence of love, hate, envy, etc. You can only
show examples of what you think is a result of it.


They are emotions/mental state and proved when displaying the act of
that emotion.

So, belief in a God can be either or both an emotion/mental state
and is
proved when displaying that belief, according to your reasoning.

I'm not disputing the "belief" in God. Anyone can believe as they wish,
it doesn't mean it's true. Many people once believed the world was flat,
but it wasn't true. Kids believe in Santa Clause and the tooth fairy
until they discover its not true. Unfortunately, adults who are raised
to believe in a God can't accept the truth he doesn't exist. Therefore,

How do you explain adults who weren't raised to believe in a God, yet,
they still do?



Free will.

How one came to believe is irrelevant. Many people feel the need for
guidance in their life. It still doesn't prove the existence of a
physical/supreme being.


Many people feel the need for something called "love", but that doesn't
prove love exists.

--
Maggie

On 5/30/2017 7:58 AM, notX wrote:
On 05/29/2017 12:39 AM, Muggles wrote:

[snip]

Millions of people also agree a God exists, so why is that also not
valid?

Lt. Cmdr. Data: Would you choose one life over one thousand, sir?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions
like that.

Millions of people believing in something has NOTHING to do with the
reality of that thing.

Likewise, millions of people believe in love and that it exists, but
cannot prove it exists. The only thing they can use is what they
believe are examples of that expression of emotion.


--
Maggie

On 30/05/2017 18:31, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 7:58 AM, notX wrote:
On 05/29/2017 12:39 AM, Muggles wrote:

[snip]

Millions of people also agree a God exists, so why is that also not
valid?

Lt. Cmdr. Data: Would you choose one life over one thousand, sir?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions
like that.

Millions of people believing in something has NOTHING to do with the
reality of that thing.

Likewise, millions of people believe in love and that it exists, but
cannot prove it exists. The only thing they can use is what they
believe are examples of that expression of emotion.


Time to change that worn out record.

On 5/30/2017 12:25 PM, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 18:20, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 12:01 AM, Bod wrote:

So there we have it; physical love is *detectable* and has been proved.

Of course, physical love is "detectable" because you can measure a
response, but a response to chemicals doesn't prove "love" exists.

Prove it does.

Put the spade down and walk away from the hole.

LOL You cannot prove "love" exists in any meaningful way, as in,
scientific method, and only can provide personal examples what you
"feel" *show* "love".

That is not proof.

--
Maggie

On 5/30/2017 12:33 PM, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 18:31, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 7:58 AM, notX wrote:
On 05/29/2017 12:39 AM, Muggles wrote:

[snip]

Millions of people also agree a God exists, so why is that also not
valid?

Lt. Cmdr. Data: Would you choose one life over one thousand, sir?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions
like that.

Millions of people believing in something has NOTHING to do with the
reality of that thing.

Likewise, millions of people believe in love and that it exists, but
cannot prove it exists. The only thing they can use is what they
believe are examples of that expression of emotion.


Time to change that worn out record.


YOU SAID:
"I'm curious because *you state that something exists, but cannot give
me proof that it does*. If I said that I see fairies every day in my
garden, but no one else can see them, I would probably end up in an
asylum and quite rightly so."

In order to prove something exists, most people, such as yourself, use
the scientific method to do so.

Love is an emotion that exists through individual interpretation of
feelings or actions as a result of the emotion.

Love cannot be proven by scientific method, so, by your own statement,
you should be ready for the asylum because you can't prove something
that you believe in, exists.

Personal anecdotes don't qualify as proof something exists.

--
Maggie

On Tue, 30 May 2017 18:33:15 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 30/05/2017 18:31, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 7:58 AM, notX wrote:
On 05/29/2017 12:39 AM, Muggles wrote:

[snip]

Millions of people also agree a God exists, so why is that also not
valid?

Lt. Cmdr. Data: Would you choose one life over one thousand, sir?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions
like that.

Millions of people believing in something has NOTHING to do with the
reality of that thing.

Likewise, millions of people believe in love and that it exists, but
cannot prove it exists. The only thing they can use is what they
believe are examples of that expression of emotion.


Time to change that worn out record.

Remarkable isn't it?

The debate revolves around the cultists proving the existence of their
omnipotent, immortal deity. Knowing they can produce zero empirical
evidence to support their assertions, the cultist resorts to diverting
the discussion to one of love (an emotion, possibly induced by brain
chemistry) and attempts to conflate the non-existence of a deity with
the occurrence of a personal experience.

This makes no sense, which is why the cultists argument is entirely
specious.

Now, if the cultists are prepared to admit that their deity exists
ONLY in their own mind and is neither omnipotent or immortal, with
that admission, there might be grounds for discussion, or more
appropriately, a diagnosis of their illness.

On Tue, 30 May 2017 09:45:26 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:26:34 AM UTC-4, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 12:10:41 +0100, Bod wrote:


Back up your own words, and prove "love" exists, or stop ragging on
people who believe in a God to provide proof a God exists.


You have a problem with sentience if you can't see and recognise love
when it is shown.

I feel the same way about people who can't see and recognize God exists.

Love for another human is tangible, believing in a non physical being
is not.

Bod,

What makes you think what we feel from the Lord is not tangible?
He makes his presence in my life very apparent.

-T



*tangible*

adjective

perceptible by touch.

And there is the rub, the delusional, such as Todd, confuse a feeling,
an emotion, experienced within their own mind, they confuse that with
reality. It is truly a sign of mental illness.

I've always viewed it as some sort of self-hypnosis, or akin
to cognitive psychotherapy.

Cindy Hamilton

You are kinder and more diplomatic than I. I abandoned such niceties
about 20ish years ago when I was in my 70's.

On 5/30/2017 12:48 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 18:33:15 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 30/05/2017 18:31, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 7:58 AM, notX wrote:
On 05/29/2017 12:39 AM, Muggles wrote:

[snip]

Millions of people also agree a God exists, so why is that also not
valid?

Lt. Cmdr. Data: Would you choose one life over one thousand, sir?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions
like that.

Millions of people believing in something has NOTHING to do with the
reality of that thing.

Likewise, millions of people believe in love and that it exists, but
cannot prove it exists. The only thing they can use is what they
believe are examples of that expression of emotion.


Time to change that worn out record.

Remarkable isn't it?

The debate revolves around the cultists proving the existence of their
omnipotent, immortal deity. Knowing they can produce zero empirical
evidence to support their assertions, the cultist resorts to diverting

There is ZERO empirical evidence that love exists. The ONLY evidence
anyone can provide of love existing is strictly anecdotal. YET, many
people still believe in love, its existence, and will argue of its
existence.

--
Maggie

Likewise, millions of people believe in love and that it exists, but
cannot prove it exists. The only thing they can use is what they
believe are examples of that expression of emotion.


Time to change that worn out record.

Remarkable isn't it?

The debate revolves around the cultists proving the existence of their
omnipotent, immortal deity. Knowing they can produce zero empirical
evidence to support their assertions, the cultist resorts to diverting
the discussion to one of love (an emotion, possibly induced by brain
chemistry) and attempts to conflate the non-existence of a deity with
the occurrence of a personal experience.

This makes no sense, which is why the cultists argument is entirely
specious.

Now, if the cultists are prepared to admit that their deity exists
ONLY in their own mind and is neither omnipotent or immortal, with
that admission, there might be grounds for discussion, or more
appropriately, a diagnosis of their illness.

Mind you, if Muggles gets to heaven, she'll have lots of female company
to chat to because apparently it's packed out with Muslim virgins.
72 for every Muslim man so their must be trillions of em there.

On 05/30/2017 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote:

[snip]

What is wrong with humans needing someone to lean on? We're a social animal.

It's still a lot better when that someone exists in external reality
rather than just internal reality (imagination).

BTW, one of the claimed attributes of God is omniscience. When I was
about 10 I got exposed to a TINY LITTLE bit of omniscience. It was one
of the worst things I ever felt (the lack of freedom that comes from
knowing your own future). Think bout how God would feel, knowing that he
has ABSOLUTELY NO freedom and will NEVER experience the satisfaction of
learning something.

On 5/30/2017 1:41 PM, Bod wrote:

Mind you, if Muggles gets to heaven, she'll have lots of female company
to chat to because apparently it's packed out with Muslim virgins.
72 for every Muslim man so their must be trillions of em there.


Can you argue your own point without the aid of anyone else and actually
prove your point, as you have said, by providing proof of what you
believe exists?

I have argued my point alone. Why do you need help? For that matter, why
do you need to resort to insult or distraction to prove your view point?

--
Maggie

On 30/05/2017 19:47, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 1:41 PM, Bod wrote:

Mind you, if Muggles gets to heaven, she'll have lots of female company
to chat to because apparently it's packed out with Muslim virgins.
72 for every Muslim man so their must be trillions of em there.


Can you argue your own point without the aid of anyone else and actually
prove your point, as you have said, by providing proof of what you
believe exists?

I have argued my point alone. Why do you need help? For that matter, why
do you need to resort to insult or distraction to prove your view point?

You distracted the discussion by introducing the "prove that love exists".
BTW, my follow on to the previous post is called Humour (humor). Ever
come across it?

On 5/30/2017 1:43 PM, notX wrote:
On 05/30/2017 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote:

[snip]

What is wrong with humans needing someone to lean on? We're a social
animal.

It's still a lot better when that someone exists in external reality
rather than just internal reality (imagination).

That is a matter of opinion, and that includes what reality consists of.

Many people feel that love is real, but can't understand how someone
could believe in a God that is also real to many people. Neither can be
proven with empirical evidence, and both can be proven by anecdotal
evidence.

Why is it OK for one, but not OK for the other?

BTW, one of the claimed attributes of God is omniscience. When I was
about 10 I got exposed to a TINY LITTLE bit of omniscience. It was one
of the worst things I ever felt (the lack of freedom that comes from
knowing your own future). Think bout how God would feel, knowing that he
has ABSOLUTELY NO freedom and will NEVER experience the satisfaction of
learning something.

OK. Was satisfaction created for humanity's sake, or God's sake?

--
Maggie

On 5/30/2017 1:51 PM, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 19:47, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 1:41 PM, Bod wrote:

Mind you, if Muggles gets to heaven, she'll have lots of female company
to chat to because apparently it's packed out with Muslim virgins.
72 for every Muslim man so their must be trillions of em there.


Can you argue your own point without the aid of anyone else and actually
prove your point, as you have said, by providing proof of what you
believe exists?

I have argued my point alone. Why do you need help? For that matter, why
do you need to resort to insult or distraction to prove your view point?


You distracted the discussion by introducing the "prove that love exists".

No, I didn't. You argued that Christians should supply proof a God
exists. BUT, you also said that anything that exists should have proof.

I asked you if you believed in love. You said "Yes". Well, I have been
asking to you supply proof love exists, and all you offer me are
anecdotal stories.

My question is directly related to your argument that Christians provide
proof a God exists. Why do you require proof God exists, when you don't
require yourself to follow through with similar proof of something you
believe exists?

You have a double standard. You only require proof God exists because
you don't allow anecdotal evidence as proof. YET, you only provide
anecdotal evidence that love exists.

Why is it OK for you to have a double standard?

BTW, my follow on to the previous post is called Humour (humor). Ever
come across it?


No. Your previous post is an attempt to muddy the water.

--
Maggie

On Tue, 30 May 2017 19:51:16 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 30/05/2017 19:47, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 1:41 PM, Bod wrote:

Mind you, if Muggles gets to heaven, she'll have lots of female company
to chat to because apparently it's packed out with Muslim virgins.
72 for every Muslim man so their must be trillions of em there.


Can you argue your own point without the aid of anyone else and actually
prove your point, as you have said, by providing proof of what you
believe exists?

I have argued my point alone. Why do you need help? For that matter, why
do you need to resort to insult or distraction to prove your view point?

You distracted the discussion by introducing the "prove that love exists".
BTW, my follow on to the previous post is called Humour (humor). Ever
come across it?

Notice how the cultist, when confronted with irrefutable logic, tries
to establish arbitrary rules for the discussion. Now it is a contest
between you and the cultist.

Obviously, for the cultist, this is not a debate in search of truth
and facts, but only a debate in search of a winner. Pathetic
behavior.

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 1:26:15 PM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 5:43 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 11:40:34 PM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 2:12 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/29/2017 1:20 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 7:10 AM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/28/2017 11:13 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/28/2017 7:02 PM, Meanie wrote:

you cannot prove the existence of a supreme being.

You cannot prove the existence of love, hate, envy, etc. You can only
show examples of what you think is a result of it.


They are emotions/mental state and proved when displaying the act of
that emotion.

So, belief in a God can be either or both an emotion/mental state and is
proved when displaying that belief, according to your reasoning.

I'm not disputing the "belief" in God. Anyone can believe as they wish,
it doesn't mean it's true. Many people once believed the world was flat,
but it wasn't true. Kids believe in Santa Clause and the tooth fairy
until they discover its not true. Unfortunately, adults who are raised
to believe in a God can't accept the truth he doesn't exist. Therefore,

How do you explain adults who weren't raised to believe in a God, yet,
they still do?

Some people just need Somebody to lean on. They come to belief later
in life.



What is wrong with humans needing someone to lean on? We're a social animal.

I'm sorry--was there anything in those two sentences that suggested
I think there is something wrong with needing someone to lean on?

Cindy Hamilton

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 1:50:25 PM UTC-4, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 09:45:26 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:26:34 AM UTC-4, Stormin' Norman wrote:

And there is the rub, the delusional, such as Todd, confuse a feeling,
an emotion, experienced within their own mind, they confuse that with
reality. It is truly a sign of mental illness.

I've always viewed it as some sort of self-hypnosis, or akin
to cognitive psychotherapy.

Cindy Hamilton

You are kinder and more diplomatic than I. I abandoned such niceties
about 20ish years ago when I was in my 70's.

Ah, well. I'm still an infant of 60.

Cindy Hamilton

On 5/30/2017 9:14 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Mon, 29 May 2017 21:08:12 -0400, wrote:

However, things such as support of cult missionaries, proselytizing,
property used for cult purposes, all income not used for legitimate,
charitable services, should (IMHO) be taxed at a business rate.
Additionally, clergy should all pay the same income tax rates as any
typical citizens. In the USA, clergy receive an approximate 30%, off
the top, discount on income taxes and I believe they can also receive
a tax free housing allowance from the cult.


Well, since you are contributing NOTHING to "Alt.HomeRepair, I'm
putting you in the bit bucket along with Meanie and a bunch of others.
Sorry, but to be fair, I have to put Muggles in there too. Nothing of
value? Down the drain. FLUSH!!!!

Interesting, Clare voluntarily chooses to participate in an off topic
discussion, but, when he is bested by logic, he claims to put people
in the "bit bucket" because they are participating in off topic
discussions.

I accept your surrender.

ROFLMAO!


Thought the same thing and after seeing my name on the list, he still
replied to me. Perhaps he felt more secure getting in the last word(s).

On 5/30/2017 1:31 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 7:58 AM, notX wrote:
On 05/29/2017 12:39 AM, Muggles wrote:

[snip]

Millions of people also agree a God exists, so why is that also not
valid?

Lt. Cmdr. Data: Would you choose one life over one thousand, sir?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions
like that.

Millions of people believing in something has NOTHING to do with the
reality of that thing.

Likewise, millions of people believe in love and that it exists, but
cannot prove it exists. The only thing they can use is what they
believe are examples of that expression of emotion.


Agree with Bod. I still can't fathom how you're oblivious to the answers
provided. Emotions exists and are proved daily. The existence of a
physical creator is not. Time to stop beating an irrelevant dead horse.

On 5/30/2017 3:25 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 19:51:16 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 30/05/2017 19:47, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 1:41 PM, Bod wrote:

Mind you, if Muggles gets to heaven, she'll have lots of female company
to chat to because apparently it's packed out with Muslim virgins.
72 for every Muslim man so their must be trillions of em there.


Can you argue your own point without the aid of anyone else and actually
prove your point, as you have said, by providing proof of what you
believe exists?

I have argued my point alone. Why do you need help? For that matter, why
do you need to resort to insult or distraction to prove your view point?

You distracted the discussion by introducing the "prove that love exists".
BTW, my follow on to the previous post is called Humour (humor). Ever
come across it?

Notice how the cultist, when confronted with irrefutable logic, tries
to establish arbitrary rules for the discussion. Now it is a contest
between you and the cultist.

Obviously, for the cultist, this is not a debate in search of truth
and facts, but only a debate in search of a winner. Pathetic
behavior.

A reputation which precedes her.

On 5/30/2017 1:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 5:47 AM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/29/2017 11:40 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 2:12 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/29/2017 1:20 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 7:10 AM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/28/2017 11:13 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/28/2017 7:02 PM, Meanie wrote:

you cannot prove the existence of a supreme being.

You cannot prove the existence of love, hate, envy, etc. You can only
show examples of what you think is a result of it.


They are emotions/mental state and proved when displaying the act of
that emotion.

So, belief in a God can be either or both an emotion/mental state
and is
proved when displaying that belief, according to your reasoning.

I'm not disputing the "belief" in God. Anyone can believe as they wish,
it doesn't mean it's true. Many people once believed the world was flat,
but it wasn't true. Kids believe in Santa Clause and the tooth fairy
until they discover its not true. Unfortunately, adults who are raised
to believe in a God can't accept the truth he doesn't exist. Therefore,

How do you explain adults who weren't raised to believe in a God, yet,
they still do?



Free will.

How one came to believe is irrelevant. Many people feel the need for
guidance in their life. It still doesn't prove the existence of a
physical/supreme being.


Many people feel the need for something called "love", but that doesn't
prove love exists.


Prove to me there is a physical being/creator in the sky or anywhere.

On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 7:14:12 AM UTC-5, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 12:57, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 12:36, Uncle Monster wrote:

Why is it that atheist soldiers always pray to God when they're in a
foxhole and being shot at? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[8~{} Uncle Foxy Monster

I've heard that *all* soldiers call out for their mum.

Before death, all soldiers call for their mothers - Euromaidan Press
euromaidanpress.com/.../surgeon-from-the-ato-zone-before-death-all-soldiers-call-for...

4 Aug 2014 - Surgeon from the ATO zone: Before death, all soldiers call
for their mothers.

Which makes sense because their mothers are real.


If my mother is in Heaven, I want to go to Hell because my mother would do her best to transform Heaven into Hell. ”Œ( à²*_à²*)”˜

[8~{} Uncle Evil Monster

On Tue, 30 May 2017 17:14:54 -0400, Meanie wrote:

On 5/30/2017 9:14 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Mon, 29 May 2017 21:08:12 -0400, wrote:

However, things such as support of cult missionaries, proselytizing,
property used for cult purposes, all income not used for legitimate,
charitable services, should (IMHO) be taxed at a business rate.
Additionally, clergy should all pay the same income tax rates as any
typical citizens. In the USA, clergy receive an approximate 30%, off
the top, discount on income taxes and I believe they can also receive
a tax free housing allowance from the cult.


Well, since you are contributing NOTHING to "Alt.HomeRepair, I'm
putting you in the bit bucket along with Meanie and a bunch of others.
Sorry, but to be fair, I have to put Muggles in there too. Nothing of
value? Down the drain. FLUSH!!!!

Interesting, Clare voluntarily chooses to participate in an off topic
discussion, but, when he is bested by logic, he claims to put people
in the "bit bucket" because they are participating in off topic
discussions.

I accept your surrender.

ROFLMAO!


Thought the same thing and after seeing my name on the list, he still
replied to me. Perhaps he felt more secure getting in the last word(s).

I suspect he was feeling as if someone was squeezing his heart in
their left fist and punching it with their right.

600-ish years ago, Clare, as a cult theist, would have had the skin
torn from our bodies and then ordered us drawn and quartered for our
heresy.

On Tue, 30 May 2017 17:24:42 -0400, Meanie wrote:

On 5/30/2017 3:25 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 19:51:16 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 30/05/2017 19:47, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 1:41 PM, Bod wrote:

Mind you, if Muggles gets to heaven, she'll have lots of female company
to chat to because apparently it's packed out with Muslim virgins.
72 for every Muslim man so their must be trillions of em there.


Can you argue your own point without the aid of anyone else and actually
prove your point, as you have said, by providing proof of what you
believe exists?

I have argued my point alone. Why do you need help? For that matter, why
do you need to resort to insult or distraction to prove your view point?

You distracted the discussion by introducing the "prove that love exists".
BTW, my follow on to the previous post is called Humour (humor). Ever
come across it?

Notice how the cultist, when confronted with irrefutable logic, tries
to establish arbitrary rules for the discussion. Now it is a contest
between you and the cultist.

Obviously, for the cultist, this is not a debate in search of truth
and facts, but only a debate in search of a winner. Pathetic
behavior.

A reputation which precedes her.


Yes, Jenn is a woman with a reputation on Usenet....... ;-)

On 05/30/2017 10:13 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 11:25 PM, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 04:39, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 1:20 PM, Bod wrote:
On 29/05/2017 18:18, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 6:21 AM, Bod wrote:
On 29/05/2017 11:51, T wrote:
On 05/28/2017 10:12 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Mon, 29 May 2017 05:58:27 +0100, Bod
wrote:
Prove love exists.
Simply telling me you SHOW love is not proof. It's
simply your interpretation of something you feel
exists.

How is that any different from a belief in God?

Because my wife is real.

God is real.
Kindness is closely linked to love and that is easily *physically*
proven in the real world, with real
people.

Who told you that? How do you know? Do you believe that because you
feel it, or because you were taught it?

Prove what you said. If it exists you should bed able to prove it.
According to your own words.

She's got you there Bod. :-)


If none of you two do not know what the feeling of love and hate feels
and looks like,

The point of me asking you to prove "love" exists is because you said:

"*you state that something exists, but cannot give me proof that it
does*. If I said that I see fairies every day in my garden, but no one
else can see them, I would probably end up in an asylum and quite
rightly so."

YOU stated "love" exists, so, give proof that it does.

Don't you back up what you say?

What I or T knows about love or hate is irrelevant to the point you
made
and need to back up.

then I doubt both of your intelligences or you're both
devoid of normal feelings and are just trying to score a cheap point.


Cheap point?? No.

You've been ragging on people who believe in a God for a long time. You
stated that when something exists there should be proof provided
that it
does exist.

Back up your own words, and prove "love" exists, or stop ragging on
people who believe in a God to provide proof a God exists.


You have a problem with sentience if you can't see and recognise love
when it is shown.

I feel the same way about people who can't see and recognize God exists.


The big difference is, that there can be no argument that humans exist
and acts of love can be physically shared.

To a Christian, there can be no argument that God exists and His acts of
love can be shared with people in more ways than the physical, as in, we
can feel His love emotionally, and spiritually.

You should be able to accept that.

The same cannot be be true by
simply believing in something that is by all accounts not there.....
and without a physical presence of a god, cannot ever be proved without
physical evidence.



Hi Maggie,

At some point I have to get suspicious of their motivations.
It occurs to me that both actually believe in God. But where
the two of us love God, they hate god. And they hate folks
that have never and will never harm them because of it.

-T

On 05/29/2017 04:35 PM, T wrote:
On 05/29/2017 03:55 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 9:11:48 PM UTC-4, T wrote:
On 05/28/2017 06:21 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 4:28:53 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
And evolution was never meant to be anything other than
science and as such is a moving target. 200 years from
today, there will be a theory to replace it and everyone
will laugh at evolution just as today we laugh at "caloric" and
the "first law of thermodynamics" (matter and energy can
neither be created or destroyed -- obviously not true).

Can you elaborate a little on this?

You elaborated a little more than expected.
1st law of Thermodynamics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics
The first law of thermodynamics is an expression of the
principle of conservation of energy. It states that energy
can be transformed (changed from one form to another),
but cannot be created or destroyed

Obviously this is not the case. Einstein's equation
Energy = Mass x (Universal Constant [speed of light]) squared
Put that to rest.

Examples:
Q. What is being transformed in a nuclear power plant?
A. Mass is being transformed into energy

Q. How are Transuranic elements formed?
A. By applying energy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transuranium_element

The way I was taught, the First Law of Thermodynamics is:

Neither matter nor energy can be created or destroyed; only
converted from one form to another. Conversion of matter
into energy follows the law.

Cindy Hamilton


Hi Cindy,

This first law states:

The first law, also known as Law of Conservation of Energy,
states that energy cannot be created or destroyed in an
isolated system.

not that you are transforming energy into matter or
matter into energy. Energy can be converted into
another form of energy, but not into matter.

-T


Hi Cindy,

I don't not know of your are following this still, but
it is looking like the Quantum Theory is going
to be replaced with String Theory in a little bit.

String Theory unifies gravity with the other forces,
where Quantum does not.

And you have the single versus the multiverse folks
too.

String Theory has a zillion holes in it as well.

It is a fascinating time of discovery.

-T

T news 2017 10:48:04 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On 05/29/2017 09:55 PM, Diesel wrote:
Muggles
news:almarsoft.1479249131625659202
@reader443.eternal-september.org Mon, 29 May 2017 05:12:03 GMT in
alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2017 05:58:27 +0100, Bod
wrote:
Prove love exists.
Simply telling me you SHOW love is not proof. It's
simply your interpretation of something you feel
exists.

How is that any different from a belief in God?

Because my wife is real.

God is real.

Perhaps, perhaps not. No definitive proof of any kind, either
way.




Hi Diesel,

There is no argument or physical equation that can prove,
or conversely, disprove that God exists.

I agree...

The only thing I can do is to tell you my personal experience
and how I got there.
And since you did not ask me, I will only say that I have had a
personal relationship with my creator (Jesus) for as long as
I can remember and I also have a personal relationship
with a saint that chose me. The love I feel from them
is very obvious.

Alright then, I'll bite. Please feel free to share the personal
experience you speak of, if you want to do so. I'll read it.


--
Nope, I can't go to hell.
Satan still has a restraining order against me.
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php

On 5/30/2017 2:44 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 1:26:15 PM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 5:43 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 11:40:34 PM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 2:12 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/29/2017 1:20 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 7:10 AM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/28/2017 11:13 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/28/2017 7:02 PM, Meanie wrote:

you cannot prove the existence of a supreme being.

You cannot prove the existence of love, hate, envy, etc. You can only
show examples of what you think is a result of it.


They are emotions/mental state and proved when displaying the act of
that emotion.

So, belief in a God can be either or both an emotion/mental state and is
proved when displaying that belief, according to your reasoning.

I'm not disputing the "belief" in God. Anyone can believe as they wish,
it doesn't mean it's true. Many people once believed the world was flat,
but it wasn't true. Kids believe in Santa Clause and the tooth fairy
until they discover its not true. Unfortunately, adults who are raised
to believe in a God can't accept the truth he doesn't exist. Therefore,

How do you explain adults who weren't raised to believe in a God, yet,
they still do?

Some people just need Somebody to lean on. They come to belief later
in life.



What is wrong with humans needing someone to lean on? We're a social animal.

I'm sorry--was there anything in those two sentences that suggested
I think there is something wrong with needing someone to lean on?

Cindy Hamilton


My comment was rhetorical.

--
Maggie

On 5/30/2017 4:17 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/30/2017 1:31 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 7:58 AM, notX wrote:
On 05/29/2017 12:39 AM, Muggles wrote:

[snip]

Millions of people also agree a God exists, so why is that also not
valid?

Lt. Cmdr. Data: Would you choose one life over one thousand, sir?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: I refuse to let arithmetic decide questions
like that.

Millions of people believing in something has NOTHING to do with the
reality of that thing.

Likewise, millions of people believe in love and that it exists, but
cannot prove it exists. The only thing they can use is what they
believe are examples of that expression of emotion.


Agree with Bod. I still can't fathom how you're oblivious to the answers
provided.

Proof is usually given by providing empirical evidence.

Anecdotal evidence, which are the answers Bod has given, is not
considered to be scientifically valid/equal to providing empirical evidence.

Emotions exists and are proved daily.

The ONLY means of providing evidence of emotions are anecdotal, not
empirical.

Are you saying that by providing anecdotal evidence is a valid means to
prove something exists?


The existence of a physical creator is not.

The existence of a physical creator is proven by providing anecdotal
evidence, just as the existence of emotions is proven by providing
anecdotal evidence.

Neither emotion or a God can be proven by providing empirical evidence.

Time to stop beating an irrelevant dead horse.

Why do you think this subject is dead? Are you saying that it's OK to
prove emotions exist by providing anecdotal evidence?

--
Maggie

On 05/30/2017 05:27 PM, Diesel wrote:
T news 2017 10:48:04 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On 05/29/2017 09:55 PM, Diesel wrote:
Muggles
news:almarsoft.1479249131625659202
@reader443.eternal-september.org Mon, 29 May 2017 05:12:03 GMT in
alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Mon, 29 May 2017 05:58:27 +0100, Bod
wrote:
Prove love exists.
Simply telling me you SHOW love is not proof. It's
simply your interpretation of something you feel
exists.

How is that any different from a belief in God?

Because my wife is real.

God is real.

Perhaps, perhaps not. No definitive proof of any kind, either
way.




Hi Diesel,

There is no argument or physical equation that can prove,
or conversely, disprove that God exists.

I agree...

The only thing I can do is to tell you my personal experience
and how I got there.
And since you did not ask me, I will only say that I have had a
personal relationship with my creator (Jesus) for as long as
I can remember and I also have a personal relationship
with a saint that chose me. The love I feel from them
is very obvious.

Alright then, I'll bite. Please feel free to share the personal
experience you speak of, if you want to do so. I'll read it.



So I don't doth out time, is there anything in particular
you are looking me?

On 5/30/2017 4:27 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/30/2017 1:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 5:47 AM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/29/2017 11:40 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 2:12 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/29/2017 1:20 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 7:10 AM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/28/2017 11:13 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/28/2017 7:02 PM, Meanie wrote:

you cannot prove the existence of a supreme being.

You cannot prove the existence of love, hate, envy, etc. You can
only
show examples of what you think is a result of it.


They are emotions/mental state and proved when displaying the act of
that emotion.

So, belief in a God can be either or both an emotion/mental state
and is
proved when displaying that belief, according to your reasoning.

I'm not disputing the "belief" in God. Anyone can believe as they
wish,
it doesn't mean it's true. Many people once believed the world was
flat,
but it wasn't true. Kids believe in Santa Clause and the tooth fairy
until they discover its not true. Unfortunately, adults who are raised
to believe in a God can't accept the truth he doesn't exist.
Therefore,

How do you explain adults who weren't raised to believe in a God, yet,
they still do?



Free will.

How one came to believe is irrelevant. Many people feel the need for
guidance in their life. It still doesn't prove the existence of a
physical/supreme being.


Many people feel the need for something called "love", but that doesn't
prove love exists.


Prove to me there is a physical being/creator in the sky or anywhere.

Prove to me love exists.

Will you attempt to use empirical or anecdotal evidence? Which one is
valid?


--
Maggie

On 5/30/2017 5:58 PM, T wrote:
On 05/30/2017 10:13 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 11:25 PM, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 04:39, Muggles wrote:

The big difference is, that there can be no argument that humans exist
and acts of love can be physically shared.

To a Christian, there can be no argument that God exists and His acts of
love can be shared with people in more ways than the physical, as in, we
can feel His love emotionally, and spiritually.

You should be able to accept that.

The same cannot be be true by
simply believing in something that is by all accounts not there.....
and without a physical presence of a god, cannot ever be proved
without
physical evidence.



Hi Maggie,

At some point I have to get suspicious of their motivations.
It occurs to me that both actually believe in God. But where
the two of us love God, they hate god. And they hate folks
that have never and will never harm them because of it.

-T

Hi T,

Do you think they will ever acknowledge their double standard?

Emotions can only be proven by anecdotal evidence, not empirical.

--
Maggie

On 30/05/2017 23:30, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 7:14:12 AM UTC-5, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 12:57, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 12:36, Uncle Monster wrote:

Why is it that atheist soldiers always pray to God when they're in a
foxhole and being shot at? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[8~{} Uncle Foxy Monster

I've heard that *all* soldiers call out for their mum.

Before death, all soldiers call for their mothers - Euromaidan Press
euromaidanpress.com/.../surgeon-from-the-ato-zone-before-death-all-soldiers-call-for...

4 Aug 2014 - Surgeon from the ATO zone: Before death, all soldiers call
for their mothers.

Which makes sense because their mothers are real.


If my mother is in Heaven, I want to go to Hell because my mother would do her best to transform Heaven into Hell. ”Œ( à²*_à²*)”˜

[8~{} Uncle Evil Monster

Lol.

On 30/05/2017 23:58, T wrote:
On 05/30/2017 10:13 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 11:25 PM, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 04:39, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 1:20 PM, Bod wrote:
On 29/05/2017 18:18, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 6:21 AM, Bod wrote:
On 29/05/2017 11:51, T wrote:
On 05/28/2017 10:12 PM, Muggles wrote:
On Mon, 29 May 2017 05:58:27 +0100, Bod
wrote:
Prove love exists.
Simply telling me you SHOW love is not proof. It's
simply your interpretation of something you feel
exists.

How is that any different from a belief in God?

Because my wife is real.

God is real.
Kindness is closely linked to love and that is easily
*physically*
proven in the real world, with real
people.

Who told you that? How do you know? Do you believe that because
you
feel it, or because you were taught it?

Prove what you said. If it exists you should bed able to prove it.
According to your own words.

She's got you there Bod. :-)


If none of you two do not know what the feeling of love and hate
feels
and looks like,

The point of me asking you to prove "love" exists is because you
said:

"*you state that something exists, but cannot give me proof that it
does*. If I said that I see fairies every day in my garden, but
no one
else can see them, I would probably end up in an asylum and quite
rightly so."

YOU stated "love" exists, so, give proof that it does.

Don't you back up what you say?

What I or T knows about love or hate is irrelevant to the point you
made
and need to back up.

then I doubt both of your intelligences or you're both
devoid of normal feelings and are just trying to score a cheap
point.


Cheap point?? No.

You've been ragging on people who believe in a God for a long
time. You
stated that when something exists there should be proof provided
that it
does exist.

Back up your own words, and prove "love" exists, or stop ragging on
people who believe in a God to provide proof a God exists.


You have a problem with sentience if you can't see and recognise love
when it is shown.

I feel the same way about people who can't see and recognize God
exists.


The big difference is, that there can be no argument that humans exist
and acts of love can be physically shared.

To a Christian, there can be no argument that God exists and His acts of
love can be shared with people in more ways than the physical, as in, we
can feel His love emotionally, and spiritually.

You should be able to accept that.

The same cannot be be true by
simply believing in something that is by all accounts not there.....
and without a physical presence of a god, cannot ever be proved
without
physical evidence.



Hi Maggie,

At some point I have to get suspicious of their motivations.
It occurs to me that both actually believe in God. But where
the two of us love God, they hate god. And they hate folks
that have never and will never harm them because of it.

-T

Hmm! I'm puzzled how one can hate a god if one doesn't exist.
Please explain!

Perhaps, perhaps not. No definitive proof of any kind, either
way.



Hi Diesel,

There is no argument or physical equation that can prove,
or conversely, disprove that God exists.

I agree...
The only thing I can do is to tell you my personal experience
and how I got there.
And since you did not ask me, I will only say that I have had a
personal relationship with my creator (Jesus) for as long as
I can remember and I also have a personal relationship
with a saint that chose me. The love I feel from them
is very obvious.

Alright then, I'll bite. Please feel free to share the personal
experience you speak of, if you want to do so. I'll read it.


So I don't doth out time, is there anything in particular
you are looking me?

Help,is there an interpreter in the house!

On 05/30/2017 08:27 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 5:58 PM, T wrote:
On 05/30/2017 10:13 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 11:25 PM, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 04:39, Muggles wrote:

The big difference is, that there can be no argument that humans exist
and acts of love can be physically shared.

To a Christian, there can be no argument that God exists and His acts of
love can be shared with people in more ways than the physical, as in, we
can feel His love emotionally, and spiritually.

You should be able to accept that.

The same cannot be be true by
simply believing in something that is by all accounts not there.....
and without a physical presence of a god, cannot ever be proved
without
physical evidence.



Hi Maggie,

At some point I have to get suspicious of their motivations.
It occurs to me that both actually believe in God. But where
the two of us love God, they hate god. And they hate folks
that have never and will never harm them because of it.

-T

Hi T,

Do you think they will ever acknowledge their double standard?

Emotions can only be proven by anecdotal evidence, not empirical.


Hi Maggie,

Sadly, no I don't. I think they may be possessed of an evil
spirit that wants to hurt believers.

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before
it hated you.

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own:
but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen
you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is
not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me,
they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying,
they will keep yours also.

--John 15:18-20 (KJV)


On the bright side, a lot of non-believers are not offended
by us and some actually appreciate having us around for
our works and our behavior accountability to a higher
authority figure. Means we all do not hae to live in a
police state because believes are more self policing,
then they that make up their own morality to suit their
own needs.

Yours in Christ,
-T

On 05/30/2017 08:27 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/30/2017 5:58 PM, T wrote:
On 05/30/2017 10:13 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/29/2017 11:25 PM, Bod wrote:
On 30/05/2017 04:39, Muggles wrote:

The big difference is, that there can be no argument that humans exist
and acts of love can be physically shared.

To a Christian, there can be no argument that God exists and His acts of
love can be shared with people in more ways than the physical, as in, we
can feel His love emotionally, and spiritually.

You should be able to accept that.

The same cannot be be true by
simply believing in something that is by all accounts not there.....
and without a physical presence of a god, cannot ever be proved
without
physical evidence.



Hi Maggie,

At some point I have to get suspicious of their motivations.
It occurs to me that both actually believe in God. But where
the two of us love God, they hate god. And they hate folks
that have never and will never harm them because of it.

-T

Hi T,

Do you think they will ever acknowledge their double standard?

Emotions can only be proven by anecdotal evidence, not empirical.


Hi Bod,

I hit the wrong key and deleted your message.

If you want to know how you can hate something that
doesn't exist, just look at your own behavior.
You obviously hate something. If you didn't,
you would not go to such great pains to insult and
disrespect believers. You might be curious about
us at times, but mostly you wouldn't care.

-T

On 05/30/2017 09:55 PM, Bod wrote:

Perhaps, perhaps not. No definitive proof of any kind, either
way.



Hi Diesel,

There is no argument or physical equation that can prove,
or conversely, disprove that God exists.

I agree...
The only thing I can do is to tell you my personal experience
and how I got there.
And since you did not ask me, I will only say that I have had a
personal relationship with my creator (Jesus) for as long as
I can remember and I also have a personal relationship
with a saint that chose me. The love I feel from them
is very obvious.

Alright then, I'll bite. Please feel free to share the personal
experience you speak of, if you want to do so. I'll read it.


So I don't doth out time, is there anything in particular
you are looking me?

Help,is there an interpreter in the house!


I could take up to an hour, maybe two, writing and writing.
I wanted to be more specific as to what he wanted.

The only thing I can do is to tell you my personal experience
and how I got there.
And since you did not ask me, I will only say that I have had a
personal relationship with my creator (Jesus) for as long as
I can remember and I also have a personal relationship
with a saint that chose me. The love I feel from them
is very obvious.

Alright then, I'll bite. Please feel free to share the personal
experience you speak of, if you want to do so. I'll read it.


So I don't doth out time, is there anything in particular
you are looking me?

Help,is there an interpreter in the house!


I could take up to an hour, maybe two, writing and writing.
I wanted to be more specific as to what he wanted.

Ever tried walking on water?

Pastor 'killed by crocodiles while trying to walk on water like Jesus'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-water.../amp/
15 May 2017 - Pastor Jonathan Mthethwa of the Saint of the Last Days
Church was 'eaten' by the animals.