in article , Skeeter at
wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks



While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle grinder to get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be cleaned out from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can be so quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?

--

Thomas A. Bruno, Champaign, Illinois, USA
http://www.tombruno.com

Cleaning the strainer is no big deal at all. One of the things that I liked
about it was that at least I knew what size particles was going thru. With
other dishwasher with a grinder you don't get to see what is going thru
because it either gets ground up or gets the hold thing clogged!

One thing I didn't like was the inability to turn the dryer off. When I
moved and redid the kitchen I purchased a Kitchen Aid Superba. Not quite as
quiet but not noisy either. It seems to clean as well and did cost a bit
less.


I would not hesitate to recommend a Bosch Dishwasher I had mine for 2 years
before I moved!

I have had the Kitchen Aid for about 1 1/2 years

Wayne

"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Skeeter at

wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to
take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability
and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks



While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle grinder to
get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be cleaned out
from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can be so
quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?

--

Thomas A. Bruno, Champaign, Illinois, USA
http://www.tombruno.com

wrote:

Skeeter at
wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to
take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability
and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks



While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle grinder to get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be cleaned out from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can be so quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?

I've had my Bosch dishwasher for about five years now and have no complaints at
all. The basket strainer is no big deal but we've always scraped the dishes
before they go in. I clean out the strainer every month or so. Mine doesn't
have a heat/dry bar on the bottom but the dishes come out dry. The nice part
about no heater bar is that I can put plastics in the bottom level and they
don't melt.

My brother has had the same model dishwasher for at least four years now and is
just as happy with it.

Older KitchenAid DWs didn't have a grinder .... they had a
rather large screen/filter and it had to be cleaned. Again,
it was no big deal, although we usually get rid of big food
chunks. We used to clean it when it looked bad, maybe once
every few months. I think eventually some of the larger
particles would soften from the hot water and soaps and then
pass through. I now have a KitchenAide with a grinder and I
really don't notice any difference, except that there is no
filter/screen in the new one. I think the Kitchenaid DWs have
gotten just average in quality. The older ones were great; I've
had Kitchenaids since 1971. I think if I ever have to replace
one, I might try Bosch or one of the other high end brands.

Thomas A Bruno wrote:
in article , Skeeter at
wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:


Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks




While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle grinder to get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be cleaned out from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can be so quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?

"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Skeeter at

wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to
take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability
and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks



While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle grinder to
get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be cleaned out
from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can be so
quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?
==
Not at all--takes a few seconds a couple times a month. Salesmen seem to use
this as
"negative" but in fact, it is preferable to a grinder. The grinder is loud
and eventually
clogs with particles and is hard, if not impossible to clean. I had a
Kenmore with a grinder
and will never have another DW with one. With the Kenmore, there was no way
to clean
the grinder after it began depositing food particles back on my dishes.
==

--

Thomas A. Bruno, Champaign, Illinois, USA
http://www.tombruno.com

"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Skeeter at

wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to
take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability
and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks



While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle grinder to
get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be cleaned out
from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can be so
quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?

We have had their middle of the line model for 5 years without a single
problem. It cleans very well and is super-quiet. The strainer is not a
hassle at all. Once every week or 2 take it out and tap the contents into
the garbage - elapsed time 15 seconds.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Our Bosch Model SHU4008 has heat dry, but no way
to turn it off. My wife doesn't like to use heat dry, so
we have to remember to stop the dishwasher after the
rinse cycle every time. I wonder if it would be very
difficult to get inside and disconnect the heater.
Dick

In article ,
said...
in article , Skeeter at
wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability and
how I will be treated if it does break down.

While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle grinder to get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be cleaned out from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can be so quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?

Not in the least. In fact, since I read your post I realized that I
hadn't checked it in a few months so I did. There was a small piece of
foil in there and nothing else. It's definitely the nicest appliance I
own.

"Dick M." wrote in message
news:HFIEb.31017$pY.30643@fed1read04...
Our Bosch Model SHU4008 has heat dry, but no way
to turn it off. My wife doesn't like to use heat dry, so
we have to remember to stop the dishwasher after the
rinse cycle every time. I wonder if it would be very
difficult to get inside and disconnect the heater.
Dick



Are you sure? My understanding is that no Bosch has a heated dry - it is the
residual heat of the dishes that dries them. THis is one reason why they are
so energy efficient.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

In article ,
Thomas A Bruno wrote:

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?

Nope. Ours most typically caught labels from jars we were washing.
Apparently the glue on the jar is water-soluble, but the paper is not.
We probably cleaned the filter every 6-8 weeks. No biggie.

sd

One of the things I like about our Bosch is the fact that it has a strainer
instead of a food grinder. Think about it -- what would happen to your
grinder if a piece of plate or a glass broke and fell into your grinder?
You probably would have a big repair bill on your hands. We always scrape
our plates off before putting them into the dishwasher.
My 2 cents worth.


"sd" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Thomas A Bruno wrote:

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?

Nope. Ours most typically caught labels from jars we were washing.
Apparently the glue on the jar is water-soluble, but the paper is not.
We probably cleaned the filter every 6-8 weeks. No biggie.

sd

"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Skeeter at

wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about to
take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their reliability
and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks



Everyone in this thread seems to have had good experiences with the Bosch
DW. Mine is 7yrs old and does a good job but has been noisy since the
warranty expired! It might be a simple repair but one has to take out a
second mortgage just for the service call nowadays.
Graham

In article ,
said...
"Dick M." wrote in message
news:HFIEb.31017$pY.30643@fed1read04...
Our Bosch Model SHU4008 has heat dry, but no way
to turn it off. My wife doesn't like to use heat dry, so
we have to remember to stop the dishwasher after the
rinse cycle every time. I wonder if it would be very
difficult to get inside and disconnect the heater.

Are you sure? My understanding is that no Bosch has a heated dry - it is the
residual heat of the dishes that dries them. THis is one reason why they are
so energy efficient.

That is true with mine. The only problem is that the plastic stuff is
usually still a little wet when it comes out. It's not a big deal. I
usually just put the stuff on the counter for 30 minutes or so and it's
dry. I'm not a big fan of electric heat anyway.

"Joe" wrote in message
news:uOLEb.594249$HS4.4358987@attbi_s01...
One of the things I like about our Bosch is the fact that it has a
strainer
instead of a food grinder. Think about it -- what would happen to your
grinder if a piece of plate or a glass broke and fell into your grinder?
You probably would have a big repair bill on your hands.
==
Exactly--This is my pet peeve with dealers who claim that the lack of a
grinder and having to
empty a filter is a negative for the Bosch dishwasher. However, units with
grinders are
not only noisey, they eventually clog and re-deposit particles on the
dishes. Having a filter
that can be manually emptied is good design for utility and noise reduction.
==
We always scrape
our plates off before putting them into the dishwasher.
My 2 cents worth.


"sd" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Thomas A Bruno wrote:

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?

Nope. Ours most typically caught labels from jars we were washing.
Apparently the glue on the jar is water-soluble, but the paper is not.
We probably cleaned the filter every 6-8 weeks. No biggie.

sd

Joe wrote in message ...

Think about it -- what would happen to your
grinder if a piece of plate or a glass broke
and fell into your grinder? You probably would
have a big repair bill on your hands.

So it's better to allow it to get to the plastic pump impeller so it
can get damaged?

BTW. It happens all the time, pieces of broken glass gets into the
pump and create a horrendous noise until cleaned. Damage usually only
occurs when the obvious signs of a problem are ignored and the
dishwasher is continued to be used in that condition.

JFYI. The "food grinders" used in most dishwasher are nothing like
what you might imagine is in a real food waster disposal. One model
just used a wire spinning around on the end of the pump impeller,
another used a flat metal disk thinner than a dime. Both are more a
"chopper" than a "grinder" and on some models are called a
"macerator".

You can see the one used on GE dishwasher models at the following
link. The macerator is the small "S" shaped thingy. The large, white,
solid disk is the pump impeller.

GE Dishwasher Pump Seal and Impeller Kit
http://ng.appliance411.com/data.php?rc=966683

JFYI

Dan O.
-
Appliance411.com
http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=+dishwashers

=Ð~~~~~~

"Gini" wrote in message
...

"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Skeeter at

wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about
to
take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their
reliability
and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks



While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle grinder to
get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be cleaned out
from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can be so
quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?
==
Not at all--takes a few seconds a couple times a month. Salesmen seem to
use
this as
"negative" but in fact, it is preferable to a grinder. The grinder is loud
and eventually
clogs with particles and is hard, if not impossible to clean. I had a
Kenmore with a grinder
and will never have another DW with one. With the Kenmore, there was no
way
to clean
the grinder after it began depositing food particles back on my dishes.
==

--

Thomas A. Bruno, Champaign, Illinois, USA
http://www.tombruno.com

I hate my Kitchenaid dishwasher - it deposits all those particles that the
grinder doesn't dispose of, right back inside all the glassware on the upper
rack. I will never own another one with a grinder. Next DW will be a
Bosch.

Jon E

I don't think it is the issue of grinder versus filter that causes the
re-deposit of particles. Newer dishwasher stop for a while mid cycle
to let particles settle and pump them out. Then they continue in the
cycle.

Also make sure you are using a powered (not gel or liquid) detergent
with enzymes.



"Jon Endres, PE" t
wrote in message
news

"Gini" wrote in message
...

"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Skeeter at

wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am
about
to
take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their
reliability
and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks



While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher
owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle
grinder to
get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be
cleaned out
from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can
be so
quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?
==
Not at all--takes a few seconds a couple times a month. Salesmen
seem to
use
this as
"negative" but in fact, it is preferable to a grinder. The grinder
is loud
and eventually
clogs with particles and is hard, if not impossible to clean. I
had a
Kenmore with a grinder
and will never have another DW with one. With the Kenmore, there
was no
way
to clean
the grinder after it began depositing food particles back on my
dishes.
==

--

Thomas A. Bruno, Champaign, Illinois, USA
http://www.tombruno.com

I hate my Kitchenaid dishwasher - it deposits all those particles
that the
grinder doesn't dispose of, right back inside all the glassware on
the upper
rack. I will never own another one with a grinder. Next DW will be
a
Bosch.

Jon E

What brands would be like that?
Dick



"Art Begun"wrote
Also make sure you are using a powered (not gel or liquid) detergent
with enzymes.

Cascade Complete powder has enzymes and was top rated. Consumer
Reports also said Walmart powder was good and rated a best buy because
it was cheap.



"Dick M." wrote in message
news:TesFb.34739$pY.25856@fed1read04...
What brands would be like that?
Dick



"Art Begun"wrote
Also make sure you are using a powered (not gel or liquid)
detergent
with enzymes.

I should have mentioned that we have a water softener and
need a low phosphate detergent. I wonder if either of these
brands are low phosphate?
Dick

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Art Begun" wrote
Cascade Complete powder has enzymes and was top rated. Consumer
Reports also said Walmart powder was good and rated a best buy because
it was cheap.



"Dick M." wrote
What brands would be like that?
Dick



"Art Begun"wrote
Also make sure you are using a powered (not gel or liquid)
detergent with enzymes.

We have had a Bosch for the past 8 years. We have not had any problems with
it. So as far as service customer service, I can't answer that question.

Suprisingly enough, one of the biggest problems I have with it, is that it
is so darn quiet. There have been a couple of times, when I open the door to
put in a dirty glass, only to have water and steam spew out at me because it
was running! Really! Maybe a big flashing red light or something...

As far as the food particle basket, in 8 years, we may have had to empty it
once or twice, but on a whole, it stays clean. Now we do a brief rinse of
the plates before we put them in the dishwasher, nothing major, just to
knock off the big chunks.

I would definately get another one if this one ever wears out.
--
Shalom!
Mike -n- Sue Clymer


"Jon Endres, PE" t wrote in
message news

"Gini" wrote in message
...

"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Skeeter at

wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am about
to
take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their
reliability
and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks



While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle grinder
to
get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be cleaned out
from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can be so
quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?
==
Not at all--takes a few seconds a couple times a month. Salesmen seem to
use
this as
"negative" but in fact, it is preferable to a grinder. The grinder is
loud
and eventually
clogs with particles and is hard, if not impossible to clean. I had a
Kenmore with a grinder
and will never have another DW with one. With the Kenmore, there was no
way
to clean
the grinder after it began depositing food particles back on my dishes.
==

--

Thomas A. Bruno, Champaign, Illinois, USA
http://www.tombruno.com

I hate my Kitchenaid dishwasher - it deposits all those particles that the
grinder doesn't dispose of, right back inside all the glassware on the
upper
rack. I will never own another one with a grinder. Next DW will be a
Bosch.

Jon E

"Michael Lee" wrote in message
...
We have had a Bosch for the past 8 years. We have not had any problems
with
it. So as far as service customer service, I can't answer that question.

Suprisingly enough, one of the biggest problems I have with it, is that it
is so darn quiet. There have been a couple of times, when I open the door
to
put in a dirty glass, only to have water and steam spew out at me because
it
was running! Really! Maybe a big flashing red light or something...
==
This is why I got the unit with the outside panel/display rather than the
one hidden on top of the door. Mine does have an in use display. Is doesn't
flash but it is red
==

As far as the food particle basket, in 8 years, we may have had to empty
it
once or twice, but on a whole, it stays clean. Now we do a brief rinse of
the plates before we put them in the dishwasher, nothing major, just to
knock off the big chunks.

I would definately get another one if this one ever wears out.
--
Shalom!
Mike -n- Sue Clymer


"Jon Endres, PE" t wrote
in
message news

"Gini" wrote in message
...

"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Skeeter at

wrote on 12/6/03 6:33 PM:

Anyone have any comments on repair historys and support? I am
about
to
take
the plunge and want to get any last minute thoughts on their
reliability
and
how I will be treated if it does break down.
Thanks



While you are at it, I would love to hear from Bosch dishwasher
owners
whether the strainer-basket is a nuisance?

I understand that Kitchen-Aid has a traditional food particle
grinder
to
get
rid of chunks but the Bosch has a basket which needs to be cleaned
out
from
time to time.

The salesman I was speaking with said that is why the Bosch can be
so
quiet,
no food grinder.

Is the basket-strainer cleaning a hassle?
==
Not at all--takes a few seconds a couple times a month. Salesmen seem
to
use
this as
"negative" but in fact, it is preferable to a grinder. The grinder is
loud
and eventually
clogs with particles and is hard, if not impossible to clean. I had a
Kenmore with a grinder
and will never have another DW with one. With the Kenmore, there was
no
way
to clean
the grinder after it began depositing food particles back on my
dishes.
==

--

Thomas A. Bruno, Champaign, Illinois, USA
http://www.tombruno.com

I hate my Kitchenaid dishwasher - it deposits all those particles that
the
grinder doesn't dispose of, right back inside all the glassware on the
upper
rack. I will never own another one with a grinder. Next DW will be a
Bosch.

Jon E

In article ,
says...
We have had a Bosch for the past 8 years. We have not had any problems with
it. So as far as service customer service, I can't answer that question.

Suprisingly enough, one of the biggest problems I have with it, is that it
is so darn quiet. There have been a couple of times, when I open the door to
put in a dirty glass, only to have water and steam spew out at me because it
was running! Really! Maybe a big flashing red light or something...

As far as the food particle basket, in 8 years, we may have had to empty it
once or twice, but on a whole, it stays clean. Now we do a brief rinse of
the plates before we put them in the dishwasher, nothing major, just to
knock off the big chunks.

Note that the Bosch service people told us NOT to rinse the dishes
before loading, but only SCRAPE with a spatula. They claim that
leaving food residue on the dishes helps because without something
else to work on, the detergent will attack the finish on dishes.
They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of glasses
and china.

I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true.

Rick

You would probably just fill the detergent holder half way or less.
Today's dishwasher need much less detergent then they used to.


"Dick M." wrote in message
news:ySxFb.37051$pY.472@fed1read04...
I should have mentioned that we have a water softener and
need a low phosphate detergent. I wonder if either of these
brands are low phosphate?
Dick

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Art Begun" wrote
Cascade Complete powder has enzymes and was top rated. Consumer
Reports also said Walmart powder was good and rated a best buy
because
it was cheap.



"Dick M." wrote
What brands would be like that?
Dick



"Art Begun"wrote
Also make sure you are using a powered (not gel or liquid)
detergent with enzymes.

Maytag says the same thing about the need to leave dishes dirty.

My parents just got a Bosch. The only thing I don't like about it is
the top rack doesn't have many "stuck up" wires to hold dishes in
place like other brands.


"Java Man (Espressopithecus)" wrote in message
ble.net...
In article ,
says...
We have had a Bosch for the past 8 years. We have not had any
problems with
it. So as far as service customer service, I can't answer that
question.

Suprisingly enough, one of the biggest problems I have with it, is
that it
is so darn quiet. There have been a couple of times, when I open
the door to
put in a dirty glass, only to have water and steam spew out at me
because it
was running! Really! Maybe a big flashing red light or
something...

As far as the food particle basket, in 8 years, we may have had to
empty it
once or twice, but on a whole, it stays clean. Now we do a brief
rinse of
the plates before we put them in the dishwasher, nothing major,
just to
knock off the big chunks.

Note that the Bosch service people told us NOT to rinse the dishes
before loading, but only SCRAPE with a spatula. They claim that
leaving food residue on the dishes helps because without something
else to work on, the detergent will attack the finish on dishes.
They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of glasses
and china.

I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true.

Rick

"Java Man (Espressopithecus)" wrote

Note that the Bosch service people told us NOT
to rinse the dishes before loading, but only
SCRAPE with a spatula. They claim that
leaving food residue on the dishes helps
because without something else to work on, the
detergent will attack the finish on dishes. They
claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the
life of glasses and china.

Art Begun wrote in message ...

Maytag says the same thing about the need
to leave dishes dirty.

If the dishwasher detergent doesn't have material to act upon, it will
cause 'etching' of glasses and other material. Always *scrape* large
food particles into the garbage or food waste disposal but don't
*rinse* them under a tap.

Dan O.
-
Appliance411.com
http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=+dishwashers

=Ð~~~~~~

"Dan O." wrote in message
...

"Java Man (Espressopithecus)" wrote

Note that the Bosch service people told us NOT
to rinse the dishes before loading, but only
SCRAPE with a spatula. They claim that
leaving food residue on the dishes helps
because without something else to work on, the
detergent will attack the finish on dishes. They
claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the
life of glasses and china.

Art Begun wrote in message ...

Maytag says the same thing about the need
to leave dishes dirty.

If the dishwasher detergent doesn't have material to act upon, it will
cause 'etching' of glasses and other material. Always *scrape* large
food particles into the garbage or food waste disposal but don't
*rinse* them under a tap.

Dan O.
==
So we should not use the "Rinse and Hold" feature, either? I don't use it
often
but have on occasion.
==
-
Appliance411.com
http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=+dishwashers

=Ð~~~~~~

Better if you don't but if the dishwasher smells like a garbage can
you don't have much choice. Rinse and hold is better choice than
rinsing dishes under the sink according to Consumer Reports.



"Gini" wrote in message
...

"Dan O." wrote in message
...

"Java Man (Espressopithecus)" wrote

Note that the Bosch service people told us NOT
to rinse the dishes before loading, but only
SCRAPE with a spatula. They claim that
leaving food residue on the dishes helps
because without something else to work on, the
detergent will attack the finish on dishes. They
claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the
life of glasses and china.

Art Begun wrote in message ...

Maytag says the same thing about the need
to leave dishes dirty.

If the dishwasher detergent doesn't have material to act upon, it
will
cause 'etching' of glasses and other material. Always *scrape*
large
food particles into the garbage or food waste disposal but don't
*rinse* them under a tap.

Dan O.
==
So we should not use the "Rinse and Hold" feature, either? I don't
use it
often
but have on occasion.
==
-
Appliance411.com
http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=+dishwashers

=Ð~~~~~~

in article , Java Man
(Espressopithecus) at wrote on 12/22/03 8:33 AM:

In article ,
says...

As far as the food particle basket, in 8 years, we may have had to empty it
once or twice, but on a whole, it stays clean. Now we do a brief rinse of
the plates before we put them in the dishwasher, nothing major, just to
knock off the big chunks.

Note that the Bosch service people told us NOT to rinse the dishes
before loading, but only SCRAPE with a spatula. They claim that
leaving food residue on the dishes helps because without something
else to work on, the detergent will attack the finish on dishes.
They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of glasses
and china.

I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true.

Rick

Oh, this is hard to accept.

If you use a spatula only, doesn't the plate get "rinsed" in the first 15
seconds of the dishwasher cycle, and then the detergent is "eating away at
the the finish" from then on?

What kind of dishes have such a delicate finish that dishwasher detergent
will erode them?
--

Thomas A. Bruno, Champaign, Illinois, USA
http://www.tombruno.com

"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Java Man
(Espressopithecus) at wrote on 12/22/03 8:33 AM:

In article ,
says...
They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of glasses
and china.

I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true.

Rick

Oh, this is hard to accept.

If you use a spatula only, doesn't the plate get "rinsed" in the first 15
seconds of the dishwasher cycle, and then the detergent is "eating away at
the the finish" from then on?

What kind of dishes have such a delicate finish that dishwasher detergent
will erode them?
--

I started this etching thread and for me the only glassware items that have
been seriously etched have been the "pyrex" type, thick measuring jugs that
are commonly available in kitchen and hardware stores. They have become
completely frosted so that the measuring lines and numbers are no longer
visible.

Graham

I have some glasses that if I can take a correct picture of that will
reflect the etching, I will put them on a website, so you can see what kind
of glass that will etch. I certainly didn't think these glasses would etch.
They are good quality and sturdy glasses.
Dee




"Graham" wrote in message
news:lRZFb.800517$9l5.708163@pd7tw2no...

"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Java
Man
(Espressopithecus) at wrote on 12/22/03 8:33 AM:

In article ,
says...
They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of glasses
and china.

I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true.

Rick

Oh, this is hard to accept.

If you use a spatula only, doesn't the plate get "rinsed" in the first
15
seconds of the dishwasher cycle, and then the detergent is "eating away
at
the the finish" from then on?

What kind of dishes have such a delicate finish that dishwasher
detergent
will erode them?
--

I started this etching thread and for me the only glassware items that
have
been seriously etched have been the "pyrex" type, thick measuring jugs
that
are commonly available in kitchen and hardware stores. They have become
completely frosted so that the measuring lines and numbers are no longer
visible.

Graham

"Graham" wrote in
news:lRZFb.800517$9l5.708163@pd7tw2no:


"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Java
Man (Espressopithecus) at wrote on 12/22/03 8:33 AM:

In article ,
says...
They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of
glasses
and china.

I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true.

Rick

Oh, this is hard to accept.

If you use a spatula only, doesn't the plate get "rinsed" in the
first 15 seconds of the dishwasher cycle, and then the detergent is
"eating away at the the finish" from then on?

What kind of dishes have such a delicate finish that dishwasher
detergent will erode them?
--

I started this etching thread and for me the only glassware items that
have been seriously etched have been the "pyrex" type, thick measuring
jugs that are commonly available in kitchen and hardware stores. They
have become completely frosted so that the measuring lines and numbers
are no longer visible.

Graham

We have never pre-rinsed dishes before putting them in the dishwasher.
We have also experienced the same etching on measuring cups but on
absolutely nothing else. I've never understood why this seems to be a
"Pyrex" problem, when all other glassware, including heavier crystal,
shows no signs of etching. Strange...

Wayne

In article ,
says...
"Graham" wrote in
news:lRZFb.800517$9l5.708163@pd7tw2no:


"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Java
Man (Espressopithecus) at wrote on 12/22/03 8:33 AM:

In article ,
says...
They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of
glasses
and china.

I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true.

Rick

Oh, this is hard to accept.

If you use a spatula only, doesn't the plate get "rinsed" in the
first 15 seconds of the dishwasher cycle, and then the detergent is
"eating away at the the finish" from then on?

What kind of dishes have such a delicate finish that dishwasher
detergent will erode them?
--

I started this etching thread and for me the only glassware items that
have been seriously etched have been the "pyrex" type, thick measuring
jugs that are commonly available in kitchen and hardware stores. They
have become completely frosted so that the measuring lines and numbers
are no longer visible.

Graham

We have never pre-rinsed dishes before putting them in the dishwasher.
We have also experienced the same etching on measuring cups but on
absolutely nothing else. I've never understood why this seems to be a
"Pyrex" problem, when all other glassware, including heavier crystal,
shows no signs of etching. Strange...

I Google for some additional information, and it seems that using too
much detergent contributes to "etching". This may be why our service
people told us that rinsing [rather than scraping] the dishes causes
etching. I suspect rinsed dishes require less detergent, but people
still use the recommended amount of detergent whether they rinse or
scrape.

See: http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=352

Rick

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
. ..
"Graham" wrote in
news:lRZFb.800517$9l5.708163@pd7tw2no:


"Thomas A Bruno" wrote in message
...
in article , Java
Man (Espressopithecus) at wrote on 12/22/03 8:33 AM:

In article ,
says...
They claim scraping rather than rinsing prolongs the life of
glasses
and china.

I haven't been doing it long enough to know whether this is true.

Rick

Oh, this is hard to accept.

If you use a spatula only, doesn't the plate get "rinsed" in the
first 15 seconds of the dishwasher cycle, and then the detergent is
"eating away at the the finish" from then on?

What kind of dishes have such a delicate finish that dishwasher
detergent will erode them?
--

I started this etching thread and for me the only glassware items that
have been seriously etched have been the "pyrex" type, thick measuring
jugs that are commonly available in kitchen and hardware stores. They
have become completely frosted so that the measuring lines and numbers
are no longer visible.

Graham

We have never pre-rinsed dishes before putting them in the dishwasher.
We have also experienced the same etching on measuring cups but on
absolutely nothing else. I've never understood why this seems to be a
"Pyrex" problem, when all other glassware, including heavier crystal,
shows no signs of etching. Strange...

Wayne

Etching is a function of the chemical composition of the glass - not all
glasses are the same, and in my experience it has nothing to do with the
quality or cost of the item. I've had cheap wine glasses that etch and
others that are still crystal clear after dozens of washing. Rule of thumb:
if you don't want it to etch, hand-wash it.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

Java Man (Espressopithecus) wrote in message ...

I Google for some additional information, and it seems that using too
much detergent contributes to "etching".

Too much detergent for the particular *water hardness* being used. The
softer the water, the less detergent should be used.

For soft water (0-3 grains), Maytag recommends 3 tsp. of detergent.
For 4-9 grains, 4-9 tsp. of detergent.
For hard water (10-13 grains), 10-12 tsp. of detergent.
For very heard water (14+ grains), a water softener is recommended.

You may be able to get a couple of "hard water test strips" at a local
water filer dealer if they think you may be interested in purchasing a
unit.

BTW. Using too hot of water can also facilitate etching. Most
dishwasher and detergent manufacturers recommend between 120°F and
140°F wash water. Anything higher may lead to etching, anything less
may not allow the detergent to work properly.

JFYI

Dan O.
-
Appliance411.com
http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=Maytag+dishwasher

=Ð~~~~~~