On 5/11/2016 3:02 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 21:37, Muggles wrote:
On 5/10/2016 2:22 PM, T wrote:
On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/8/2016 1:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 08 May 2016 04:03:28 +0100, Muggles

wrote:

On 5/7/2016 4:08 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:36:25 +0100, Winston_Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:09:27 +0100, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

As intelligence increases with each generation, religion
decreases.

Can you prove a decrease in religion results in an increase of
intelligence ? There seem to be examples to the contrary here.

I'd say the increase in intelligence causes the decrease in
religion.
Clever folk realise what they've been taught is a load of ****e.


Religion is only the outward expression of a desire or
acknowledgement
that a greater power exists beyond our own selves.


Yes I know what religion is, and it's nonsensical.

No, religion is a logical response to an inward sense that greatness
exists outside of being human.

There is no evidence of a greater power.

Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would
it take to get it to function correctly?

If there was one, there would be evidence,

There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual
belief system.

and if
we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship.

Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given
freely to you?


And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

yeah ...


Hmm, like some innocent babies being born blind/ limbless etc?

sing "all things bright and wonderful, the lord god made them all".

Then recite "god made all men equal"

What a load of crap!!


I've asked many questions, myself. As far as creation goes, including
human beings, the rules were defined in the beginning. Babies being
born blind or limbless and other such things happened after sin entered
the world. There is now more chemicals and pollution that we're exposed
to than there ever was, and that doesn't include what people voluntarily
do to each other or themselves exposing themselves to all sorts of
contaminates. I lost much of my hearing as a teen because I lived in a
household with parents who smoked and secondhand smoke floated in the
house constantly. It's a fact that me being exposed to those
contaminates caused my hearing loss.

We blame god for everything bad that happens to us, and don't take into
consideration that perfection ended with creation after sin entered the
world.

That's my take on it, anyway.

--
Maggie

On 5/11/2016 3:03 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 21:41, Muggles wrote:

It also helps when you have a personal relationship with Jesus
(God) and one of his saints. Can we say "voices in our heads?"
:-)

...a constant discussion and conversation, I'd say.

Voices in the head is a sign of madness.

Do you ever "think" about anything? Do you ever "contemplate" events,
or remember your past, or rehearse future discussions you want to have
with people in your head?

Voices in the head are normal. It's just unspoken conversation and
memories, whether it be from the past, or something inferred for the
futures.

--
Maggie

On 5/11/2016 3:12 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 22:05, T wrote:
On 05/10/2016 01:41 PM, Muggles wrote:
I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in
discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space, how do
we know time has always been constant there since many people like to
put a number on the age of the universe and use that as evidence to
estimate the age of the Earth.

I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that!

Hi Muggles,

Something I have found interesting is Einstein's take on
quantum physics. He did not believe it to be correct
because "God is not random". And indeed the theory
which is starting to replace quantum physics, called
String Theory, is not random.

Problem with quantum physics is that it is not unified,
meaning it does not incorporate gravity in its model.
String theory does.

We have a saying in our church. "Do not seek the truth
in science, for today's truths are always tomorrow's
falsehoods. But instead, seek the truth in Jesus Christ,
who is the way, the truth, and the light."

One of my most fascinating courses in college was the
history of science. It was all about tomorrow's
falsehoods. Caloric was a huge one.

My personal belief is that when the eight day comes
and all is revealed, that all our humanity's collective
knowledge and all our machines, we will have not scratched
one cell in God's finger.

I also think that ever since the first human eye laid
sight on the first star in the sky, that we were meant to
go there. I look forward to the light barrier being
broken. I will probably have to watch that happen from
heaven.

And we have Saint Moses to thank for science:

Genius 1, 1-5 KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved
upon the face of the waters.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided
the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called
Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

And that was the beginning of science. The universe was
a creation of God and what we observed around us was nature,
not the work of petty human like gods and magic.

Glory be to God!
-T

String theory is really w-e-i-r-d.

Indeed, very similar to many religions, like Scientology/ Jehovah
Witlesses/ Moony loonies and Morons (sorry....Mormons, etc.


One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system
is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain
that many very smart people still believe in a God?

--
Maggie

On 11/05/2016 16:50, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 15:04:30 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 11/05/2016 12:48, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 11:15:54 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 11/05/2016 10:24, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 08:52:17 +0100, Bod wrote:

And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

As I look around *me*, I see many different religions all guessing that
their particular strain is the *only* religion.

Many? I see only a couple, Islam being the primary one.

Or did you somehow forget about the Reformation way back in the 1600s?

Gunner

What's that got to do with it? It simply highlighted the confusion of
religious beliefs. A form of cherry picking.

Yet your widespread statements seem to cover ALL religions

Wind back thousands of years and people believed that the Sun was the
real god. Some thought it was the moon.
Religious guesswork (cherry picking) has been going on since the world
evolved.

Yes it has. And you are as guilty of it as any.

Gunner

I don't preach, I give you my honest opinion, but I base it on reality
*not* a faith.

Actually..you do preach here. And I do not recall anyone asking for
your opinion on religion. So you did come in here and start preaching
your religion. As for how YOU View something...that neither makes
it true, nor false. Im still waiting for your Proof that there are no
god(s). Trot it out, feel free to use all the white space necessary.

Gunner

Religious people are the ones who claim there *is* a god, yet offer no
proof other than they believe.

The onus is on them to prove this existence.
How on earth does one prove that an invisible god does *not* exist?
The *invisible*/ imaginary bit is the bit that puzzles me.

Bod

On 5/11/2016 3:16 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 22:29, T wrote:
On 05/10/2016 02:10 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2016 22:05:56 +0100, T wrote:

On 05/10/2016 01:41 PM, Muggles wrote:
I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in
discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space,
how do
we know time has always been constant there since many people like to
put a number on the age of the universe and use that as evidence to
estimate the age of the Earth.

I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that!

Hi Muggles,

Something I have found interesting is Einstein's take on
quantum physics. He did not believe it to be correct
because "God is not random". And indeed the theory
which is starting to replace quantum physics, called
String Theory, is not random.

I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he
wasn't hampered by religion?


Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say,
no. He probably would have just been mediocre.

"hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life.

Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion,
get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism,
atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but religoun).

Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can
wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada,
yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell,
Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political
correctness).

A lot of atheists are very religious people.


Oh dear, you are so deluded that you even change the meaning of words
to suit yourself.

Atheism
noun
"a disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods".


A religion isn't necessarily attributed to the worship of a god.

Here are some definitions:

"Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views,
sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organisation that relate
humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence".

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the
universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman
agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances,
and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs
...."

Technically, if a person identifies with a particular societal
organization that shares a specific mindset relating to such things as
stated above, it can be classified as a religion.

--
Maggie

On 11/05/2016 17:03, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 2:52 AM, Bod wrote:

There is no evidence of a greater power.

Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would
it take to get it to function correctly?

If there was one, there would be evidence,

There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual
belief system.

and if
we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship.

Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given
freely to you?


And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

As I look around *me*, I see many different religions all guessing that
their particular strain is the *only* religion. I also see that religion
in the UK is dying out except for the primitive Muslim religions. It's
true that as people get more informed and intelligent that they are
realising how misguided they have been.
It wasn't that long ago that people were worshipping the Moon/ the Sun
and many other objects as their god. Even today there are Scientologist
idiots believing in Aliens etc.
If you read the Bible or the Koran, you'll see that they are both
contradictory all the way through and the *believers* cherry pick what
they want to hear.


I don't think any individual religion has everything correct, but I do
think many religions make an attempt to acknowledge that there is a
greater power involved in our existence, which, in turn, acknowledges
that mankind is not equivalent to being a god.

IMO, there is too much evidence that it took intelligence to create
everything we see around us.

And it all happened only 6 thousand years ago?

--
Bod

In article , says...

I don't care what label others may have for me, atheist or
whatever. I allow for the possibility (however remote) that I am
misguided and something/someone out there does exist as a god(s).

Agnostic would be the term, I believe.

--
RonNNN

On 5/11/2016 3:32 AM, Bod wrote:

I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he
wasn't hampered by religion?


Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say,
no. He probably would have just been mediocre.

"hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life.

Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion,
get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism,
atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but
religoun).

Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can
wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada,
yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell,
Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political
correctness).

A lot of atheists are very religious people.

More dogmatically narrow minded than the most devout Jew, Muslim, or
southern Baptist Christian, by far.

Erm! I was bullied into going to church as a kid by a scarey Vicar.
Many Irish Catholics were also bullied and brainwashed to go to church.
Cross the line and you got kneecapped or tarred and feathered.
What lovely religious people.


Bullying anyone is wrong, imo. I've been bullied by religious people,
too, but just because they did something wrong, it shouldn't be cause
for me to abandon something I believe in. I may question "why", but at
the same time if I truly "believe" in a higher power then what people do
to me can't change what I truly believe.

--
Maggie

On 11/05/2016 17:09, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:02 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 21:37, Muggles wrote:
On 5/10/2016 2:22 PM, T wrote:
On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/8/2016 1:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 08 May 2016 04:03:28 +0100, Muggles

wrote:

On 5/7/2016 4:08 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:36:25 +0100, Winston_Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:09:27 +0100, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

As intelligence increases with each generation, religion
decreases.

Can you prove a decrease in religion results in an increase of
intelligence ? There seem to be examples to the contrary here.

I'd say the increase in intelligence causes the decrease in
religion.
Clever folk realise what they've been taught is a load of ****e.


Religion is only the outward expression of a desire or
acknowledgement
that a greater power exists beyond our own selves.


Yes I know what religion is, and it's nonsensical.

No, religion is a logical response to an inward sense that greatness
exists outside of being human.

There is no evidence of a greater power.

Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would
it take to get it to function correctly?

If there was one, there would be evidence,

There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual
belief system.

and if
we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship.

Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given
freely to you?


And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

yeah ...


Hmm, like some innocent babies being born blind/ limbless etc?

sing "all things bright and wonderful, the lord god made them all".

Then recite "god made all men equal"

What a load of crap!!


I've asked many questions, myself. As far as creation goes, including
human beings, the rules were defined in the beginning. Babies being
born blind or limbless and other such things happened after sin entered
the world. There is now more chemicals and pollution that we're exposed
to than there ever was, and that doesn't include what people voluntarily
do to each other or themselves exposing themselves to all sorts of
contaminates. I lost much of my hearing as a teen because I lived in a
household with parents who smoked and secondhand smoke floated in the
house constantly. It's a fact that me being exposed to those
contaminates caused my hearing loss.

We blame god for everything bad that happens to us, and don't take into
consideration that perfection ended with creation after sin entered the
world.

That's my take on it, anyway.

And why did god create such an awful thing to happen? After all, he
supposedly created *everything*.

sing " all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small.
All things wise and wonderful, the lord god *made them all*.

Please enlighten me!

--
Bod

On 11/05/2016 17:13, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:03 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 21:41, Muggles wrote:

It also helps when you have a personal relationship with Jesus
(God) and one of his saints. Can we say "voices in our heads?"
:-)

...a constant discussion and conversation, I'd say.

Voices in the head is a sign of madness.

Do you ever "think" about anything? Do you ever "contemplate" events,
or remember your past, or rehearse future discussions you want to have
with people in your head?

Voices in the head are normal. It's just unspoken conversation and
memories, whether it be from the past, or something inferred for the
futures.

I don't suffer with voices, but admit to having thoughts (like normal
people do).

--
Bod

On 5/11/2016 3:39 AM, T wrote:
On 05/11/2016 01:02 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 21:37, Muggles wrote:
On 5/10/2016 2:22 PM, T wrote:
On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/8/2016 1:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 08 May 2016 04:03:28 +0100, Muggles

wrote:

On 5/7/2016 4:08 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:36:25 +0100, Winston_Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:09:27 +0100, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

As intelligence increases with each generation, religion
decreases.

Can you prove a decrease in religion results in an increase of
intelligence ? There seem to be examples to the contrary here.

I'd say the increase in intelligence causes the decrease in
religion.
Clever folk realise what they've been taught is a load of ****e.


Religion is only the outward expression of a desire or
acknowledgement
that a greater power exists beyond our own selves.


Yes I know what religion is, and it's nonsensical.

No, religion is a logical response to an inward sense that greatness
exists outside of being human.

There is no evidence of a greater power.

Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would
it take to get it to function correctly?

If there was one, there would be evidence,

There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual
belief system.

and if
we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship.

Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given
freely to you?


And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

yeah ...

Hmm, like some innocent babies being born blind/ limbless etc?

Hi Bod,

Long time no talk. Hope this find you well over on the island.

That is nature, not God's doing. And don't think for one second
that God doesn't notice.

Luke 12:7 KJV
But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear
not therefo ye are of more value than many sparrows.

We also feel God presence around those who are helpless. This
is what Muggles and I an talking about.

And, by the way, we are servants of Christ. We are expected
to be his arms and legs. No sitting back and hitting others
over the head (taxes) and demanding that they take care of
the helpless, but not lifting a figer ourselves. It is
the deference between society, which is a blessing, and
government, which is to punish.

I've always thought that since it says we are the "body" of Christ that
it included the entire body, not just the arms and legs. I've joked
that I must be a gall bladder because even as a child people would say
things to me like, "You've got GALL to say that!" lol I guess I wasn't
born with much tact!


sing "all things bright and wonderful, the lord god made them all".

Yup. All things seen and unseen. You should feel our hearts
when we look at the stars. The universe is beyond our human
capability to comprehend (the hand of God).


Then recite "god made all men equal"

Colonel Colt made all men equal.

God loves each and every one of us.

What a load of crap!!

Watch out what you do unto the least of you. You
are also doing it unto God. That included the
rivers of blood from the abortionist's knife.

Guess you have never looked into someone's eyes and
seen the love of God.

Many people won't look others eye to eye because they can see into that
person's soul what they are going through, or what they are about. Have
you noticed that people don't like looking at each other eye to eye?

--
Maggie

Muggles writes:
On 5/11/2016 3:12 AM, Bod wrote:

One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system
is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain
that many very smart people still believe in a God?

1) Even smart people, brainwashed from birth into a specific
religion, seldom question their beliefs.

2) Most smart people are smart only in their specialty.

3) Most people wish desperately to believe that there will
something after death.

4) You can never underestimate peer pressure and the
need to conform.

Pascal's wager comes to mind as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided
the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called
Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

And that was the beginning of science. The universe was
a creation of God and what we observed around us was nature,
not the work of petty human like gods and magic.

Glory be to God!
-T

String theory is really w-e-i-r-d.

Indeed, very similar to many religions, like Scientology/ Jehovah
Witlesses/ Moony loonies and Morons (sorry....Mormons, etc.


One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system
is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain
that many very smart people still believe in a God?

Many *smart people* have turned out to be conning thieving villains.
So you can't measure by smartness.

--
Bod

On 5/11/2016 3:44 AM, Bod wrote:

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided
the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called
Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

And that was the beginning of science. The universe was
a creation of God and what we observed around us was nature,
not the work of petty human like gods and magic.

Glory be to God!
-T

String theory is really w-e-i-r-d.


I love it when I get to discuss the existence of God, but many people
just get angry or frustrated and won't actually "discuss" anything.

Does a person base their belief system on "what we know to be true"?
Well, "what we know to be true" can be challenged, and some people see
that sort of a challenge as heretical in nature because mankind is their
god. How dare I challenge the wisdom of learned men! Who am I that I
would even try? I do get that opportunity every now and then, though.


Do you discuss your beliefs with any Catholic pervert Priests?

I'm not Catholic, but I've discussed my beliefs with a few people who
were Catholic, and don't think any of them were priests. I wouldn't
have a problem doing so if I had a chance, though.

--
Maggie

"Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views,
sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organisation that relate
humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence".

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the
universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman
agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances,
and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs
..."

Technically, if a person identifies with a particular societal
organization that shares a specific mindset relating to such things as
stated above, it can be classified as a religion.

So in your strange interpretation, I am an Atheist who doesn't believe
in *any* religion, but I am religious!!?....hmm!

--
Bod

On 11/05/2016 17:26, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:32 AM, Bod wrote:

I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he
wasn't hampered by religion?


Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say,
no. He probably would have just been mediocre.

"hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life.

Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion,
get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism,
atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but
religoun).

Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can
wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada,
yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell,
Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political
correctness).

A lot of atheists are very religious people.

More dogmatically narrow minded than the most devout Jew, Muslim, or
southern Baptist Christian, by far.

Erm! I was bullied into going to church as a kid by a scarey Vicar.
Many Irish Catholics were also bullied and brainwashed to go to church.
Cross the line and you got kneecapped or tarred and feathered.
What lovely religious people.


Bullying anyone is wrong, imo. I've been bullied by religious people,
too, but just because they did something wrong, it shouldn't be cause
for me to abandon something I believe in. I may question "why", but at
the same time if I truly "believe" in a higher power then what people do
to me can't change what I truly believe.

Ok.

--
Bod

On 5/11/2016 3:47 AM, Bod wrote:

I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he
wasn't hampered by religion?


Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say,
no. He probably would have just been mediocre.

"hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life.

Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion,
get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism,
atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but
religoun).

Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can
wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada,
yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell,
Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political
correctness).

A lot of atheists are very religious people.



Many good points!


*Atheism* means *No religious beliefs*.
Are you that desperate that you have to change the meanings of words?

Look up the various definitions of "religion".

Here's just one:

Religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Classical definitions - "Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and
practices, world views, sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal
organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called
"an order of existence".

Atheism qualifies as a "cultural system of behaviors and practices,
world views".

However, it doesn't have connections with "sacred texts, or holy places"
except to deny such things are valid.

Atheism DOES relate to and adhere to beliefs in regards to ethics, and
societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has
called "an order of existence".

A religion isn't necessarily about the sacred or holy or even about a
belief in a god. It is a belief system that has both a connotative and
denotative understanding of how it is defined and what is involved in
its practices.

--
Maggie

On 11/05/2016 17:32, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:39 AM, T wrote:
On 05/11/2016 01:02 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 21:37, Muggles wrote:
On 5/10/2016 2:22 PM, T wrote:
On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/8/2016 1:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 08 May 2016 04:03:28 +0100, Muggles

wrote:

On 5/7/2016 4:08 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:36:25 +0100, Winston_Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:09:27 +0100, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

As intelligence increases with each generation, religion
decreases.

Can you prove a decrease in religion results in an increase of
intelligence ? There seem to be examples to the contrary here.

I'd say the increase in intelligence causes the decrease in
religion.
Clever folk realise what they've been taught is a load of ****e.


Religion is only the outward expression of a desire or
acknowledgement
that a greater power exists beyond our own selves.


Yes I know what religion is, and it's nonsensical.

No, religion is a logical response to an inward sense that greatness
exists outside of being human.

There is no evidence of a greater power.

Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would
it take to get it to function correctly?

If there was one, there would be evidence,

There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual
belief system.

and if
we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship.

Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given
freely to you?


And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

yeah ...

Hmm, like some innocent babies being born blind/ limbless etc?

Hi Bod,

Long time no talk. Hope this find you well over on the island.

That is nature, not God's doing. And don't think for one second
that God doesn't notice.

Luke 12:7 KJV
But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear
not therefo ye are of more value than many sparrows.

We also feel God presence around those who are helpless. This
is what Muggles and I an talking about.

And, by the way, we are servants of Christ. We are expected
to be his arms and legs. No sitting back and hitting others
over the head (taxes) and demanding that they take care of
the helpless, but not lifting a figer ourselves. It is
the deference between society, which is a blessing, and
government, which is to punish.

I've always thought that since it says we are the "body" of Christ that
it included the entire body, not just the arms and legs. I've joked
that I must be a gall bladder because even as a child people would say
things to me like, "You've got GALL to say that!" lol I guess I wasn't
born with much tact!


sing "all things bright and wonderful, the lord god made them all".

Yup. All things seen and unseen. You should feel our hearts
when we look at the stars. The universe is beyond our human
capability to comprehend (the hand of God).


Then recite "god made all men equal"

Colonel Colt made all men equal.

God loves each and every one of us.

What a load of crap!!

Watch out what you do unto the least of you. You
are also doing it unto God. That included the
rivers of blood from the abortionist's knife.

Guess you have never looked into someone's eyes and
seen the love of God.

Many people won't look others eye to eye because they can see into that
person's soul what they are going through, or what they are about. Have
you noticed that people don't like looking at each other eye to eye?

I always do. Autistic people have trouble in looking into peoples eyes
though.
Only by looking into someone's eyes can you see their sincerity.

--
Bod

On 5/11/2016 4:06 AM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 09:15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:58:07 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 14:29:30 -0700, T wrote:

On 05/10/2016 02:10 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2016 22:05:56 +0100, T wrote:

On 05/10/2016 01:41 PM, Muggles wrote:
I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in
discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space,
how do
we know time has always been constant there since many people
like to
put a number on the age of the universe and use that as evidence to
estimate the age of the Earth.

I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that!

Hi Muggles,

Something I have found interesting is Einstein's take on
quantum physics. He did not believe it to be correct
because "God is not random". And indeed the theory
which is starting to replace quantum physics, called
String Theory, is not random.

I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he
wasn't hampered by religion?


Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say,
no. He probably would have just been mediocre.

"hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life.

Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion,
get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism,
atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but
religoun).

Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can
wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada,
yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell,
Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political
correctness).

A lot of atheists are very religious people.

More dogmatically narrow minded than the most devout Jew, Muslim, or
southern Baptist Christian, by far.

Well put.

Gunner

"Kill every first born"....now where did I hear that said?...hmm.
Also....*Adam and Eve's incestuous family*...I heard that somewhere also.
I also heard the story about this thing called god deliberately making
childbirth extremely painful because of the actions of Adam & Eve.
What a kind and loving god.


Are you wanting to discuss each point individually?

--
Maggie

On 11/05/2016 17:32, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Muggles writes:
On 5/11/2016 3:12 AM, Bod wrote:

One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system
is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain
that many very smart people still believe in a God?

1) Even smart people, brainwashed from birth into a specific
religion, seldom question their beliefs.

2) Most smart people are smart only in their specialty.

3) Most people wish desperately to believe that there will
something after death.

4) You can never underestimate peer pressure and the
need to conform.

Pascal's wager comes to mind as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

That's a very good way of putting it, ie; a gamble.

--
Bod

On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 11:22:52 AM UTC-5, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 17:03, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 2:52 AM, Bod wrote:

There is no evidence of a greater power.

Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would
it take to get it to function correctly?

If there was one, there would be evidence,

There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual
belief system.

and if
we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship.

Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given
freely to you?


And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

As I look around *me*, I see many different religions all guessing that
their particular strain is the *only* religion. I also see that religion
in the UK is dying out except for the primitive Muslim religions. It's
true that as people get more informed and intelligent that they are
realising how misguided they have been.
It wasn't that long ago that people were worshipping the Moon/ the Sun
and many other objects as their god. Even today there are Scientologist
idiots believing in Aliens etc.
If you read the Bible or the Koran, you'll see that they are both
contradictory all the way through and the *believers* cherry pick what
they want to hear.


I don't think any individual religion has everything correct, but I do
think many religions make an attempt to acknowledge that there is a
greater power involved in our existence, which, in turn, acknowledges
that mankind is not equivalent to being a god.

IMO, there is too much evidence that it took intelligence to create
everything we see around us.

And it all happened only 6 thousand years ago?
--
Bod

I'm convinced that man is descended from the intestinal fauna of a passing space alien when it emptied its sewage tank into one of Earth's primordial seas. I'm convinced of this because humans treat each other like feces. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Primal Monster

However, it doesn't have connections with "sacred texts, or holy places"
except to deny such things are valid.

Atheism DOES relate to and adhere to beliefs in regards to ethics, and
societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has
called "an order of existence".

A religion isn't necessarily about the sacred or holy or even about a
belief in a god. It is a belief system that has both a connotative and
denotative understanding of how it is defined and what is involved in
its practices.

religion

noun
"the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially
a personal God or gods".

--
Bod

On 11/05/2016 17:44, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 4:06 AM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 09:15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:58:07 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 14:29:30 -0700, T wrote:

On 05/10/2016 02:10 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2016 22:05:56 +0100, T wrote:

On 05/10/2016 01:41 PM, Muggles wrote:
I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in
discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space,
how do
we know time has always been constant there since many people
like to
put a number on the age of the universe and use that as evidence to
estimate the age of the Earth.

I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that!

Hi Muggles,

Something I have found interesting is Einstein's take on
quantum physics. He did not believe it to be correct
because "God is not random". And indeed the theory
which is starting to replace quantum physics, called
String Theory, is not random.

I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he
wasn't hampered by religion?


Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say,
no. He probably would have just been mediocre.

"hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life.

Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion,
get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism,
atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but
religoun).

Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can
wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada,
yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell,
Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political
correctness).

A lot of atheists are very religious people.

More dogmatically narrow minded than the most devout Jew, Muslim, or
southern Baptist Christian, by far.

Well put.

Gunner

"Kill every first born"....now where did I hear that said?...hmm.
Also....*Adam and Eve's incestuous family*...I heard that somewhere also.
I also heard the story about this thing called god deliberately making
childbirth extremely painful because of the actions of Adam & Eve.
What a kind and loving god.


Are you wanting to discuss each point individually?

Ok, let's start with the incest please!


--
Bod

I don't think any individual religion has everything correct, but I do
think many religions make an attempt to acknowledge that there is a
greater power involved in our existence, which, in turn, acknowledges
that mankind is not equivalent to being a god.

IMO, there is too much evidence that it took intelligence to create
everything we see around us.

And it all happened only 6 thousand years ago?
--
Bod

I'm convinced that man is descended from the intestinal fauna of a passing space alien when it emptied its sewage tank into one of Earth's primordial seas. I'm convinced of this because humans treat each other like feces. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Primal Monster

See! you're talking about more **** ;-)

--
Bod

On 5/11/2016 11:22 AM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 17:03, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 2:52 AM, Bod wrote:

There is no evidence of a greater power.

Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would
it take to get it to function correctly?

If there was one, there would be evidence,

There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual
belief system.

and if
we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship.

Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given
freely to you?


And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

As I look around *me*, I see many different religions all guessing that
their particular strain is the *only* religion. I also see that religion
in the UK is dying out except for the primitive Muslim religions. It's
true that as people get more informed and intelligent that they are
realising how misguided they have been.
It wasn't that long ago that people were worshipping the Moon/ the Sun
and many other objects as their god. Even today there are Scientologist
idiots believing in Aliens etc.
If you read the Bible or the Koran, you'll see that they are both
contradictory all the way through and the *believers* cherry pick what
they want to hear.


I don't think any individual religion has everything correct, but I do
think many religions make an attempt to acknowledge that there is a
greater power involved in our existence, which, in turn, acknowledges
that mankind is not equivalent to being a god.

IMO, there is too much evidence that it took intelligence to create
everything we see around us.

And it all happened only 6 thousand years ago?

No.

--
Maggie

As I look around *me*, I see many different religions all guessing that
their particular strain is the *only* religion. I also see that religion
in the UK is dying out except for the primitive Muslim religions. It's
true that as people get more informed and intelligent that they are
realising how misguided they have been.
It wasn't that long ago that people were worshipping the Moon/ the Sun
and many other objects as their god. Even today there are Scientologist
idiots believing in Aliens etc.
If you read the Bible or the Koran, you'll see that they are both
contradictory all the way through and the *believers* cherry pick what
they want to hear.


I don't think any individual religion has everything correct, but I do
think many religions make an attempt to acknowledge that there is a
greater power involved in our existence, which, in turn, acknowledges
that mankind is not equivalent to being a god.

IMO, there is too much evidence that it took intelligence to create
everything we see around us.

And it all happened only 6 thousand years ago?

No.

Hmm! this disagrees with you:

The Biblical Age of the Earth - Truth In Genesis
http://www.truthingenesis.com/2013/0...-of-the-earth/
3 Jan 2013 - So, according to the Bible the earth is about 6000 years
old. ... How long did Joshua march around the walls of Jericho anyway?
.... He says, €œBy Periods God created that which produced the Solar
Systems; then that which ...

--
Bod

On 5/11/2016 11:26 AM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 17:09, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:02 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 21:37, Muggles wrote:
On 5/10/2016 2:22 PM, T wrote:
On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/8/2016 1:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 08 May 2016 04:03:28 +0100, Muggles

wrote:

On 5/7/2016 4:08 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:36:25 +0100, Winston_Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:09:27 +0100, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

As intelligence increases with each generation, religion
decreases.

Can you prove a decrease in religion results in an increase of
intelligence ? There seem to be examples to the contrary here.

I'd say the increase in intelligence causes the decrease in
religion.
Clever folk realise what they've been taught is a load of ****e.


Religion is only the outward expression of a desire or
acknowledgement
that a greater power exists beyond our own selves.


Yes I know what religion is, and it's nonsensical.

No, religion is a logical response to an inward sense that greatness
exists outside of being human.

There is no evidence of a greater power.

Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence
would
it take to get it to function correctly?

If there was one, there would be evidence,

There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual
belief system.

and if
we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship.

Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given
freely to you?


And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

yeah ...


Hmm, like some innocent babies being born blind/ limbless etc?

sing "all things bright and wonderful, the lord god made them all".

Then recite "god made all men equal"

What a load of crap!!


I've asked many questions, myself. As far as creation goes, including
human beings, the rules were defined in the beginning. Babies being
born blind or limbless and other such things happened after sin entered
the world. There is now more chemicals and pollution that we're exposed
to than there ever was, and that doesn't include what people voluntarily
do to each other or themselves exposing themselves to all sorts of
contaminates. I lost much of my hearing as a teen because I lived in a
household with parents who smoked and secondhand smoke floated in the
house constantly. It's a fact that me being exposed to those
contaminates caused my hearing loss.

We blame god for everything bad that happens to us, and don't take into
consideration that perfection ended with creation after sin entered the
world.

That's my take on it, anyway.


And why did god create such an awful thing to happen? After all, he
supposedly created *everything*.

God "created" everything "in the beginning". After creation, God didn't
create anything new. Creation was the point at which all the physical
laws of the universe were "created". That includes everything.

sing " all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small.
All things wise and wonderful, the lord god *made them all*.

Please enlighten me!


After Creation, in the beginning, man kind was given dominion over the
Earth. We are responsible for "all things bright and beautiful, all
creatures great and small, all things wise and wonderful".

--
Maggie

On 5/11/2016 11:27 AM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 17:13, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:03 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 21:41, Muggles wrote:

It also helps when you have a personal relationship with Jesus
(God) and one of his saints. Can we say "voices in our heads?"
:-)

...a constant discussion and conversation, I'd say.

Voices in the head is a sign of madness.

Do you ever "think" about anything? Do you ever "contemplate" events,
or remember your past, or rehearse future discussions you want to have
with people in your head?

Voices in the head are normal. It's just unspoken conversation and
memories, whether it be from the past, or something inferred for the
futures.


I don't suffer with voices, but admit to having thoughts (like normal
people do).


A thought is just a voice we hear in our heads.

--
Maggie

On Wed, 11 May 2016 16:39:33 +0100, Bod wrote:


Indeed it was. One English religion hated the Jews. The Jews of
course being very religious and not killing anyone. So its probably
the combination of English and a religion that turned it so brutal.
The Brits being well known thugs and all...shrug

Gunner

Oh dear, you're dragging the past up again.
The UK is very tolerant of Jews and we are in no way "thugs".
I speak as I find and I've worked for many Jews in their own homes and
all were lovely kind people. A few even insisted that I stay for dinner.

--
Bod

Dragging up the past again? Oh...so you dont like it when I do
it..but you do it as a matter of course and think its ok?

Of course most Jews are nice people. As are most Catholics, Anglicans,
Methodists, Lutherens and so on and so forth. Yet you lead us to
believe they are all ****ing ******s.

Do try try to be consistant in your distain and hate, old boy.

Gunner

On 5/11/2016 11:32 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Muggles writes:
On 5/11/2016 3:12 AM, Bod wrote:

One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system
is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain
that many very smart people still believe in a God?

1) Even smart people, brainwashed from birth into a specific
religion, seldom question their beliefs.

That doesn't explain how smart people still choose to believe in a
greater power.

2) Most smart people are smart only in their specialty.

Not necessarily true. Smart people are often smart in areas indirectly
related to their specialty, or even totally unrelated, such as hobbies,
or outside interests they've chosen to study just out of enjoyment.

3) Most people wish desperately to believe that there will
something after death.

I think that is probably true, but it doesn't explain people who believe
with no other explanation.

4) You can never underestimate peer pressure and the
need to conform.

I agree, but still, many people believe in a higher power despite
extreme consequences for their beliefs.

Pascal's wager comes to mind as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager


I'm sure that can be true for many people, too.

--
Maggie

On 5/11/2016 11:32 AM, Bod wrote:

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided
the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called
Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

And that was the beginning of science. The universe was
a creation of God and what we observed around us was nature,
not the work of petty human like gods and magic.

Glory be to God!
-T

String theory is really w-e-i-r-d.

Indeed, very similar to many religions, like Scientology/ Jehovah
Witlesses/ Moony loonies and Morons (sorry....Mormons, etc.

One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system
is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain
that many very smart people still believe in a God?


Many *smart people* have turned out to be conning thieving villains.
So you can't measure by smartness.

Then we can agree that ones intelligence has no bearing on belief in a
higher power?

--
Maggie

On 5/11/2016 11:39 AM, Bod wrote:

"Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views,
sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organisation that relate
humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence".

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the
universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman
agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances,
and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs
..."

Technically, if a person identifies with a particular societal
organization that shares a specific mindset relating to such things as
stated above, it can be classified as a religion.


So in your strange interpretation, I am an Atheist who doesn't believe
in *any* religion, but I am religious!!?....hmm!

No. I'm saying that the definition of a religion equates atheism as a
religion.

Being "religious" is a whole different practice.

--
Maggie

On Wed, 11 May 2016 16:53:14 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 11/05/2016 16:32, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 14:56:15 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 11/05/2016 12:46, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 10:41:42 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 11/05/2016 10:21, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 09:44:50 +0100, Bod wrote:


And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided
the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called
Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

And that was the beginning of science. The universe was
a creation of God and what we observed around us was nature,
not the work of petty human like gods and magic.

Glory be to God!
-T

String theory is really w-e-i-r-d.

I love it when I get to discuss the existence of God, but many people
just get angry or frustrated and won't actually "discuss" anything.

Does a person base their belief system on "what we know to be true"?
Well, "what we know to be true" can be challenged, and some people see
that sort of a challenge as heretical in nature because mankind is their
god. How dare I challenge the wisdom of learned men! Who am I that I
would even try? I do get that opportunity every now and then, though.

Do you discuss your beliefs with any Catholic pervert Priests?

Did you discuss your beliefs with any atheist perverts?

You do know those perverts come in all flavors..right? Of course you
do...you have likely tasted more than a few.

Just like religion then, there are hundreds of flavours. Each religion
*believes* that their religion/ god is the true religion or god.
Which flavour is the correct one?

A very good question indeed and one neither of us is qualified to
answer. Yet you continue to try to put yours above everyone elses.

Bigotry like yours...Id thought it was long past.

So you admit that *you* don't even know for sure who's religion is the
right one, hmmm.
You worship something just by guessing.

I worship nothing. I, like you, have faith...faith that our beliefs
are among the right ones. I take it you know nothing of Buddhism, do
you?

My Eightfold Path is just one of the correct paths, not the only one.

Gunner

If I were forced at gunpoint to choose a religion, then Buddhism is what
I would choose out of them all and yes I and my wife were invited to a
ceremony in the house that we sold to them. There were real Buddhist
monks dressed in their robes an all. We all had to hold on to an
unbroken daisy chain of string whilst the monks chanted.
Very nice people.
I have also attended many C of E church services and tried hard to feel
the force (as it were), but the service just made me feel cold.
Both religions left me with the feeling that I'd witnessed pure bull****.
I sang in a church choir for 2 years, but only because I liked singing
in choirs.
Nice atmosphere and plush decor etc in churches though.

So it doesnt work for you..at this point in your life. Shrug. You
might change...you might not. Its surprising the numbers of Atheists
who cry out to god(s) as the dark night closes in, at the end. Ive
seen and heard many of them do just this as they died..or thought they
were about to die. Shrug.

So why not leave those that believe differently than you do, to their
beliefs and faiths, and try finding something else to discuss?
Say...something like "survival"? Afterall..thats what this group is
all about.

Gunner

On 5/11/2016 11:43 AM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 17:32, Muggles wrote:
guess you have never looked into someone's eyes and
seen the love of God.

Many people won't look others eye to eye because they can see into that
person's soul what they are going through, or what they are about. Have
you noticed that people don't like looking at each other eye to eye?


I always do. Autistic people have trouble in looking into peoples eyes
though.
Only by looking into someone's eyes can you see their sincerity.

That's very true.

--
Maggie

On Wed, 11 May 2016 16:54:44 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 11/05/2016 16:33, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 15:01:06 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 11/05/2016 12:47, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 10:47:58 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 11/05/2016 10:22, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 09:03:05 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 10/05/2016 21:41, Muggles wrote:
On 5/10/2016 2:35 PM, T wrote:
On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would
it take to get it to function correctly?


Hi Muggles,

I sometimes refer to God as the Master Bioengineer. :-)

My unscientific observation is that a lot of intelligent
folks do believe in God. Einstein's saying as "How did
he do it?" The more you realize you don't know, the
more humble you become and the more you realize their is
someone's hand in all this.

I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in
discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space, how do
we know time has always been constant there since many people like to
put a number on the age of the universe and use that as evidence to
estimate the age of the Earth.

I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that!

First sentence of the Nicene Creed:
"We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible."

Wisdom of Sirach, chapter 38, v6, KJV:
And he hath given men skill, that he might be
honoured in his marvellous works.

Glory be to God!
-T

Amen, T.

It also helps when you have a personal relationship with Jesus
(God) and one of his saints. Can we say "voices in our heads?"
:-)

...a constant discussion and conversation, I'd say.

Voices in the head is a sign of madness.

Tell that to a telepath.

I'd rather talk to a sane person thankyou.

The few telepaths Ive met were rather sane...though hated to be around
groups of people. Understandable of course.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you've spoken to Telepaths.
I class Telepathy/Astrology and Religion in the same category as
snake oil.

ignorance does tend to be one of your strongest traits...shrug.

Gunner

Read of my religious experiences in one of my recent posts, oh
presumptious one.

The one about the "cold feeling"? And this has what to do with
reality and in particular..those that can read emotion or some
thoughts?

Gunner

On 5/11/2016 11:50 AM, Bod wrote:

However, it doesn't have connections with "sacred texts, or holy places"
except to deny such things are valid.

Atheism DOES relate to and adhere to beliefs in regards to ethics, and
societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has
called "an order of existence".

A religion isn't necessarily about the sacred or holy or even about a
belief in a god. It is a belief system that has both a connotative and
denotative understanding of how it is defined and what is involved in
its practices.

religion

noun
"the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially
a personal God or gods".


That is ONE denotative definition of religion, but in order to be
thorough, it is a good idea to view the whole picture of how "religion"
is defined, vs. only quoting one narrow definition that may or may not
support ones own viewpoint, don't you agree?

--
Maggie

On 5/11/2016 11:52 AM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 17:44, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 4:06 AM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 09:15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:58:07 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 14:29:30 -0700, T wrote:

On 05/10/2016 02:10 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2016 22:05:56 +0100, T wrote:

On 05/10/2016 01:41 PM, Muggles wrote:
I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in
discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space,
how do
we know time has always been constant there since many people
like to
put a number on the age of the universe and use that as
evidence to
estimate the age of the Earth.

I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that!

Hi Muggles,

Something I have found interesting is Einstein's take on
quantum physics. He did not believe it to be correct
because "God is not random". And indeed the theory
which is starting to replace quantum physics, called
String Theory, is not random.

I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he
wasn't hampered by religion?


Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say,
no. He probably would have just been mediocre.

"hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life.

Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion,
get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism,
atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but
religoun).

Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can
wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada,
yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell,
Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political
correctness).

A lot of atheists are very religious people.

More dogmatically narrow minded than the most devout Jew, Muslim, or
southern Baptist Christian, by far.

Well put.

Gunner

"Kill every first born"....now where did I hear that said?...hmm.
Also....*Adam and Eve's incestuous family*...I heard that somewhere
also.
I also heard the story about this thing called god deliberately making
childbirth extremely painful because of the actions of Adam & Eve.
What a kind and loving god.


Are you wanting to discuss each point individually?


Ok, let's start with the incest please!



OK ... tell me where incest was in Adam and Eve's family.

--
Maggie

On 5/11/2016 12:00 PM, Bod wrote:

As I look around *me*, I see many different religions all guessing
that
their particular strain is the *only* religion. I also see that
religion
in the UK is dying out except for the primitive Muslim religions. It's
true that as people get more informed and intelligent that they are
realising how misguided they have been.
It wasn't that long ago that people were worshipping the Moon/ the Sun
and many other objects as their god. Even today there are
Scientologist
idiots believing in Aliens etc.
If you read the Bible or the Koran, you'll see that they are both
contradictory all the way through and the *believers* cherry pick what
they want to hear.


I don't think any individual religion has everything correct, but I do
think many religions make an attempt to acknowledge that there is a
greater power involved in our existence, which, in turn, acknowledges
that mankind is not equivalent to being a god.

IMO, there is too much evidence that it took intelligence to create
everything we see around us.

And it all happened only 6 thousand years ago?

No.

Hmm! this disagrees with you:

The Biblical Age of the Earth - Truth In Genesis
http://www.truthingenesis.com/2013/0...-of-the-earth/
3 Jan 2013 - So, according to the Bible the earth is about 6000 years
old. ... How long did Joshua march around the walls of Jericho anyway?
... He says, €œBy Periods God created that which produced the Solar
Systems; then that which ...


How many hours were in a day when Creation happened?

--
Maggie

On 11/05/2016 18:01, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 11:26 AM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 17:09, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:02 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 21:37, Muggles wrote:
On 5/10/2016 2:22 PM, T wrote:
On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/8/2016 1:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 08 May 2016 04:03:28 +0100, Muggles

wrote:

On 5/7/2016 4:08 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:36:25 +0100, Winston_Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:09:27 +0100, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

As intelligence increases with each generation, religion
decreases.

Can you prove a decrease in religion results in an increase of
intelligence ? There seem to be examples to the contrary here.

I'd say the increase in intelligence causes the decrease in
religion.
Clever folk realise what they've been taught is a load of ****e.


Religion is only the outward expression of a desire or
acknowledgement
that a greater power exists beyond our own selves.


Yes I know what religion is, and it's nonsensical.

No, religion is a logical response to an inward sense that greatness
exists outside of being human.

There is no evidence of a greater power.

Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence
would
it take to get it to function correctly?

If there was one, there would be evidence,

There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual
belief system.

and if
we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship.

Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given
freely to you?


And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

yeah ...


Hmm, like some innocent babies being born blind/ limbless etc?

sing "all things bright and wonderful, the lord god made them all".

Then recite "god made all men equal"

What a load of crap!!


I've asked many questions, myself. As far as creation goes, including
human beings, the rules were defined in the beginning. Babies being
born blind or limbless and other such things happened after sin entered
the world. There is now more chemicals and pollution that we're exposed
to than there ever was, and that doesn't include what people voluntarily
do to each other or themselves exposing themselves to all sorts of
contaminates. I lost much of my hearing as a teen because I lived in a
household with parents who smoked and secondhand smoke floated in the
house constantly. It's a fact that me being exposed to those
contaminates caused my hearing loss.

We blame god for everything bad that happens to us, and don't take into
consideration that perfection ended with creation after sin entered the
world.

That's my take on it, anyway.


And why did god create such an awful thing to happen? After all, he
supposedly created *everything*.

God "created" everything "in the beginning". After creation, God didn't
create anything new. Creation was the point at which all the physical
laws of the universe were "created". That includes everything.

sing " all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small.
All things wise and wonderful, the lord god *made them all*.

Please enlighten me!


After Creation, in the beginning, man kind was given dominion over the
Earth. We are responsible for "all things bright and beautiful, all
creatures great and small, all things wise and wonderful".

You haven't explained the incest, which obviously HAD to happen from
Adam and Eve's offspring. Which is what I asked.

--
Bod

On 5/11/2016 12:21 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:01, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 11:26 AM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 17:09, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 3:02 AM, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 21:37, Muggles wrote:
On 5/10/2016 2:22 PM, T wrote:
On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 5/8/2016 1:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 08 May 2016 04:03:28 +0100, Muggles

wrote:

On 5/7/2016 4:08 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:36:25 +0100, Winston_Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:09:27 +0100, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

As intelligence increases with each generation, religion
decreases.

Can you prove a decrease in religion results in an increase of
intelligence ? There seem to be examples to the contrary here.

I'd say the increase in intelligence causes the decrease in
religion.
Clever folk realise what they've been taught is a load of ****e.


Religion is only the outward expression of a desire or
acknowledgement
that a greater power exists beyond our own selves.


Yes I know what religion is, and it's nonsensical.

No, religion is a logical response to an inward sense that
greatness
exists outside of being human.

There is no evidence of a greater power.

Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence
would
it take to get it to function correctly?

If there was one, there would be evidence,

There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual
belief system.

and if
we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship.

Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration
given
freely to you?


And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything.

yeah ...


Hmm, like some innocent babies being born blind/ limbless etc?

sing "all things bright and wonderful, the lord god made them all".

Then recite "god made all men equal"

What a load of crap!!


I've asked many questions, myself. As far as creation goes, including
human beings, the rules were defined in the beginning. Babies being
born blind or limbless and other such things happened after sin entered
the world. There is now more chemicals and pollution that we're
exposed
to than there ever was, and that doesn't include what people
voluntarily
do to each other or themselves exposing themselves to all sorts of
contaminates. I lost much of my hearing as a teen because I lived in a
household with parents who smoked and secondhand smoke floated in the
house constantly. It's a fact that me being exposed to those
contaminates caused my hearing loss.

We blame god for everything bad that happens to us, and don't take into
consideration that perfection ended with creation after sin entered the
world.

That's my take on it, anyway.


And why did god create such an awful thing to happen? After all, he
supposedly created *everything*.

God "created" everything "in the beginning". After creation, God didn't
create anything new. Creation was the point at which all the physical
laws of the universe were "created". That includes everything.

sing " all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small.
All things wise and wonderful, the lord god *made them all*.

Please enlighten me!


After Creation, in the beginning, man kind was given dominion over the
Earth. We are responsible for "all things bright and beautiful, all
creatures great and small, all things wise and wonderful".

You haven't explained the incest, which obviously HAD to happen from
Adam and Eve's offspring. Which is what I asked.


I responded to your other post on the topic of incest.

--
Maggie