As I had mentioned, because my wife and I remodeled our kitchen and did
most of the work ourselves and for the most part re-purposed existing
appliances cabinets, chairs and tables etc...it was quite easy on the
budget.

With absolutely beautiful results.


Was talking to a friend this evening who asked about the project and he
told me that his kitchen remodel (all done by contractors) cost $60K.

My whole house cost $30K originally (1979) so putting $60k into the
kitchen did not seem like something I'd do.


My wife and I then tried to recall what his kitchen looked like and all
we could remember was that it was too generic-looking to even leave much
of an impression.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:26:11 -0500, philo
wrote:

As I had mentioned, because my wife and I remodeled our kitchen and did
most of the work ourselves and for the most part re-purposed existing
appliances cabinets, chairs and tables etc...it was quite easy on the
budget.

With absolutely beautiful results.

Congratulations.

I didn't reply to your previous post, because I was jealous. I'm still
trying to get Windows to work right.


Was talking to a friend this evening who asked about the project and he
told me that his kitchen remodel (all done by contractors) cost $60K.

Wow.

My whole house cost $30K originally (1979) so putting $60k into the
kitchen did not seem like something I'd do.

It's hard to relate to prices going up. There was something on the news
about a Rosenwald school originally built for 5000 that cost over a
million to remodel. I think it was originally built around 1930 and
prices have gone up since then.

My wife and I then tried to recall what his kitchen looked like and all
we could remember was that it was too generic-looking to even leave much
of an impression.

It sounds like you have a hard-working wife with a head on her
shoulders.

--

Stumpy Strumpet
the bimbus
for dogcatcher

On 9/9/2015 7:26 PM, philo wrote:
As I had mentioned, because my wife and I remodeled our kitchen and did most of
the work ourselves and for the most part re-purposed existing appliances
cabinets, chairs and tables etc...it was quite easy on the budget.

I think when you actively participate in a remodel (assuming you THINK
about it), you tend to address issues that a "professional" might
overlook or just address in a "checklist" sort of fashion.

Here, we added lots of "extra" electric circuits in the kitchen as it's
the biggest power hog in a typical home. Most of our neighbors complain
that they can't run a (big) microwave and a convection/toaster oven at
the same time (without tripping a breaker). Or, have the refrigerator
on a *shared* circuit so if something else trips the breaker, their
fridge is off as well (OK if you notice it soon enough).

We also made a point of arranging the two countertop GFCI circuits to
alternate duplex receptacles (instead of "left half of counter" and
"right half of counter"). So, we can plug in two electric frying pans
without fear of tripping a circuit (we *know* how to get them on
different circuits).

We ran a special cold water supply line to the sink so that we could
provide "unsoftened" water there (in anticipation of lower sodium
requirements as we age).

We ran a water line through the wall to the dishwasher with its own
shutoff so we don't have "hoses" running through the sink base
cabinet to the dishwasher. Likewise, ran the drain line for the
dishwasher *in* the wall. And, of course, it's own electric so
*that* didn't have to snake through from under the sink.

We moved half of the counters back another foot to give us a bit
more counter area, another cabinet and larger work area.

We insulated the *interior* walls to help cut down on noise
propagating out from the kitchen.

We installed 4 speakers at ceiling level so we can listen to
music without having to lose any counter space to a "radio", etc.

We put a pair of phone/TV/network drops on the counters in case
we later opt to put a phone, small TV or even a laptop there.

I *do* wish we had installed a large (4'x4') skylight in the
food prep area, though. SWMBO vetoed that idea. I would always
welcome extra light!

Of course, there's always the risk that you'll slap yourself
up-side-da-head just after you finish... and realize some other
thing you *should* have done while you were knee deep in the
mess... :-/ Hopefully, yours won't be anything regretful! :

On 09/09/2015 10:12 PM, micky wrote:


I didn't reply to your previous post, because I was jealous. I'm still
trying to get Windows to work right.


I just found out there is nothing wrong with doing some hard work...and
also knowing enough to "farm out" the wallpaper installation.

As to "Windows" I moved over to Linux many years ago.



Was talking to a friend this evening who asked about the project and he
told me that his kitchen remodel (all done by contractors) cost $60K.

Wow.

My whole house cost $30K originally (1979) so putting $60k into the
kitchen did not seem like something I'd do.

It's hard to relate to prices going up. There was something on the news
about a Rosenwald school originally built for 5000 that cost over a
million to remodel. I think it was originally built around 1930 and
prices have gone up since then.

Yes , my house was $30k in 1979 but when it was new in 1898 I think it
was $1500 or so.





My wife and I then tried to recall what his kitchen looked like and all
we could remember was that it was too generic-looking to even leave much
of an impression.

It sounds like you have a hard-working wife with a head on her
shoulders.


Yep...she is not afraid of work.


She married me though, so I'm not sure how bright she is

On 09/09/2015 10:43 PM, Don Y wrote:


snip
I think when you actively participate in a remodel (assuming you THINK
about it), you tend to address issues that a "professional" might
overlook or just address in a "checklist" sort of fashion.


Yep...a lot of the planning was done "on the fly".

For example, we moved the kitchen "island" against a wall but due to a
gas pipe for the oven I made a guard around it which prevented us from
pushing it flush. My wife then asked me to make a "pouch" behind it to
fill the 4" of dead space and all of the kitchen utensils and cooking
ingredients exactly fit in it and completely got rid of the clutter.
The kitchen is amazingly efficient now and all because of a gas pipe
being in the way that I had not thought of.

Here, we added lots of "extra" electric circuits in the kitchen as it's
the biggest power hog in a typical home. Most of our neighbors complain
that they can't run a (big) microwave and a convection/toaster oven at
the same time (without tripping a breaker). Or, have the refrigerator
on a *shared* circuit so if something else trips the breaker, their
fridge is off as well (OK if you notice it soon enough).

We also made a point of arranging the two countertop GFCI circuits to
alternate duplex receptacles (instead of "left half of counter" and
"right half of counter"). So, we can plug in two electric frying pans
without fear of tripping a circuit (we *know* how to get them on
different circuits).


Yep. We went from three kitchen circuits to seven and each "power hog"
such as toaster, microwave, refrigerator etc are on their own separate
circuits. No problem if I want to make coffee and toast at the same time.


BTW: After I got all the wiring in place, my wife decided it would be
better to put the microwave in the pantry. She was also surprised that I
said "yes" immediately. It gave me the opportunity to add one more
outlet to the house!



We ran a special cold water supply line to the sink so that we could
provide "unsoftened" water there (in anticipation of lower sodium
requirements as we age).

We ran a water line through the wall to the dishwasher with its own
shutoff so we don't have "hoses" running through the sink base
cabinet to the dishwasher. Likewise, ran the drain line for the
dishwasher *in* the wall. And, of course, it's own electric so
*that* didn't have to snake through from under the sink.



We have a minimal number of "modern" appliances and no dish washer and
no garbage disposer. The deal is: My wife does the cooking and I do the
dishes. We put the kitchen waste not likely to attract squirrels into
the compost pile.

We moved half of the counters back another foot to give us a bit
more counter area, another cabinet and larger work area.

We insulated the *interior* walls to help cut down on noise
propagating out from the kitchen.


The only disturbing noise in our kitchen is me and my bad eating
habits...I guess to stop that my wife could shove some insulation down
my gullet!

We installed 4 speakers at ceiling level so we can listen to
music without having to lose any counter space to a "radio", etc.

We put a pair of phone/TV/network drops on the counters in case
we later opt to put a phone, small TV or even a laptop there.

I *do* wish we had installed a large (4'x4') skylight in the
food prep area, though. SWMBO vetoed that idea. I would always
welcome extra light!

We did put in new lighting. After some debate we went with Halogen and
it works well.


Of course, there's always the risk that you'll slap yourself
up-side-da-head just after you finish... and realize some other
thing you *should* have done while you were knee deep in the
mess... :-/ Hopefully, yours won't be anything regretful! :


After all was done, we were sitting in the kitchen yesterday and talking
about what we might have forgotten. All we could come up with was that
it would have been nice perhaps to have the vinyl (or whatever it's made
out of) flooring removed and had a wooden floor put it.

Not only would that delayed the completion date of the project...it
probably would have been out of my budget ...plus since it would not
have matched the wooden floor in the dining room...to have had both
floors replaced would have made it just too large of a project.

On Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:26:11 -0500, philo wrote:

As I had mentioned, because my wife and I remodeled our kitchen and did
most of the work ourselves and for the most part re-purposed existing
appliances cabinets, chairs and tables etc...it was quite easy on the
budget.

With absolutely beautiful results.


Was talking to a friend this evening who asked about the project and he
told me that his kitchen remodel (all done by contractors) cost $60K.

My whole house cost $30K originally (1979) so putting $60k into the
kitchen did not seem like something I'd do.


There's "remodeling" and there's "rebuilding."
Paint and a few new appliances/cabinets can be considered to be
remodeling.
Add new walls with new tiles and the underlying new electrical and
plumbing, new cabinetry, and expensive SS appliances, and it's in
"rebuilding" territory. Skilled craftsmen just add to the cost.
About 30 years ago I remodeled 2 kitchens in my 2-flat.
They were 1920's era kitchens, with no cabinets. Large pantry.
I just patched some plaster, painted, and added about 18' of floor to
ceiling cabinets and countertop to each kitchen. That included sinks
and dishwashers. Formica clad cabinets and countertops.
Cost me about $5k, but my brother got the cabinets with his GC
license. Would have been $10k retail. Without labor.
You pay a lot for skilled labor.
Contractor cost markup takes a big bite.

On 9/10/2015 1:48 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/09/2015 10:43 PM, Don Y wrote:

I think when you actively participate in a remodel (assuming you THINK
about it), you tend to address issues that a "professional" might
overlook or just address in a "checklist" sort of fashion.

Yep...a lot of the planning was done "on the fly".

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony
wall behind the stove, etc. So, we had to plan carefully to ensure
we ended up with enough cabinet space, the right sorts of cabinets,
electric outlets in the right locations, etc.

For example, we moved the kitchen "island" against a wall but due to a gas pipe
for the oven I made a guard around it which prevented us from pushing it flush.
My wife then asked me to make a "pouch" behind it to fill the 4" of dead space
and all of the kitchen utensils and cooking ingredients exactly fit in it and
completely got rid of the clutter.
The kitchen is amazingly efficient now and all because of a gas pipe being in
the way that I had not thought of.

We only had one "gotcha" -- a vent stack that had to be moved several inches.
No *easy* way of knowing that it would be in the way ahead of time. But,
thankfully, it was an easy fix.

Here, we added lots of "extra" electric circuits in the kitchen as it's
the biggest power hog in a typical home. Most of our neighbors complain
that they can't run a (big) microwave and a convection/toaster oven at
the same time (without tripping a breaker). Or, have the refrigerator
on a *shared* circuit so if something else trips the breaker, their
fridge is off as well (OK if you notice it soon enough).

Yep. We went from three kitchen circuits to seven and each "power hog" such as
toaster, microwave, refrigerator etc are on their own separate circuits. No
problem if I want to make coffee and toast at the same time.

There were no GFCI circuits in the kitchen when we started. A *single*
GFCI handled the bathrooms, garage *and* outdoor outlets. We took the
opportunity to add/replace those circuits with 5 GFCI-protected.

BTW: After I got all the wiring in place, my wife decided it would be better to
put the microwave in the pantry. She was also surprised that I said "yes"
immediately. It gave me the opportunity to add one more outlet to the house!

We opted from the start to move the microwave into the small pantry.
It freed up a lot of counter space after deciding to remove the
cabinets over the peninsula (thus no place for an "undercounter"
microwave). This also let that "load" move off the countertop
circuits onto one of the less used circuits in the kitchen.

We ran a special cold water supply line to the sink so that we could
provide "unsoftened" water there (in anticipation of lower sodium
requirements as we age).

We ran a water line through the wall to the dishwasher with its own
shutoff so we don't have "hoses" running through the sink base
cabinet to the dishwasher. Likewise, ran the drain line for the
dishwasher *in* the wall. And, of course, it's own electric so
*that* didn't have to snake through from under the sink.

We have a minimal number of "modern" appliances and no dish washer and no
garbage disposer. The deal is: My wife does the cooking and I do the dishes. We
put the kitchen waste not likely to attract squirrels into the compost pile.

I don't think we've used the dishwasher, yet! : With just the two
of us, there are seldom enough dishes to warrant running the dishwasher.
OTOH, the disposal sees frequent use.

We moved half of the counters back another foot to give us a bit
more counter area, another cabinet and larger work area.

We insulated the *interior* walls to help cut down on noise
propagating out from the kitchen.

The only disturbing noise in our kitchen is me and my bad eating habits...I
guess to stop that my wife could shove some insulation down my gullet!

The house floorplan has the "informal" areas (kitchen, family room)
separated from the "formal" areas (dining room, living room) by the
kitchen wall. The extra insulation helps keep food prep noises
from distracting folks in the living or dining areas. It also
is a good buffer to isolate the family room and living room
activities (each has a TV and is a suitable gathering place for
people).

We installed 4 speakers at ceiling level so we can listen to
music without having to lose any counter space to a "radio", etc.

We put a pair of phone/TV/network drops on the counters in case
we later opt to put a phone, small TV or even a laptop there.

I *do* wish we had installed a large (4'x4') skylight in the
food prep area, though. SWMBO vetoed that idea. I would always
welcome extra light!

We did put in new lighting. After some debate we went with Halogen and it works
well.

We didn't like the halogen lights. Too "stark" (color). We arranged
recessed lights above the counters with a separate circuit above the
sink area (so you can have "reduced lighting" in the early morning
hours, there -- instead of facing a room full of bright lights).
We added under the counter lighting controlled from wall switches
(instead of having to reach up under the counters and fumble around
looking for a switch).

The "hallway" side of the kitchen could use a bit more light.
OTOH, you don't *do* anything over there other than walk *through*
the kitchen (and there's plenty of light for that.

We also arranged for the kitchen lights to be controlled in any
of three locations: at the north end, south end and from the
sink.

Of course, there's always the risk that you'll slap yourself
up-side-da-head just after you finish... and realize some other
thing you *should* have done while you were knee deep in the
mess... :-/ Hopefully, yours won't be anything regretful! :

After all was done, we were sitting in the kitchen yesterday and talking about
what we might have forgotten. All we could come up with was that it would have
been nice perhaps to have the vinyl (or whatever it's made out of) flooring
removed and had a wooden floor put it.

I think you'd probably then want to *cover* it with something.
Kitchens, IME, want to be easy to "mop clean". Too easy for
things to get spilled, there.

Not only would that delayed the completion date of the project...it probably
would have been out of my budget ...plus since it would not have matched the
wooden floor in the dining room...to have had both floors replaced would have
made it just too large of a project.

Belatedly, we realized that we wanted better shelving in the large
pantry (size of a small walk-in closet). I wanted the shelves to
be adjustable instead of "fixed". But, they are 3' wide and 3' deep
so supporting them (plus whatever is piled *on* them) is a bit
of a challenge.

Additionally, I wanted to be able to *tie* the shelves into the
walls (instead of just *setting* a shelf on a support) so that I
could use them to attach sliding drawers/trays, lazy susans, etc.

So, I've been fabricating supports out of 1/2 x 3/4 cold rolled
steel bars in which I've drilled holes every inch along the
length. A bracket on the underside of each shelf will spring-load
pegs into these brackets (two on each side) so the shelf won't
be able to move up, down or in/out until they are retracted.

The 1/2" thickness was chosen to coincide with the thickness of
the drywall on each side of the pantry -- so the supports are
*in* the wall instead of *on* the wall.

Had this sort of thing been left to a (sub)contractor, we'd have
ended up with COTS shelf supports and much *smaller* shelves!

On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony
wall behind the stove, etc. So, we had to plan carefully to ensure
we ended up with enough cabinet space, the right sorts of cabinets,
electric outlets in the right locations, etc.



Well, the ceiling was raised 25 years ago. The previous owner put in a
drop-ceiling which did exactly that...it dropped. It happened about an
hour after my daughter told me it was going to fall.


I took a wreaking bar and entirely gutted the kitchen and put in 5/8"
drywall, walls and ceiling. The entire first floor is 9' ceilings. I
have a friend who is over seven feet tall who says there are few houses
as comfortable as ours.





snipped but read
We opted from the start to move the microwave into the small pantry.
It freed up a lot of counter space after deciding to remove the
cabinets over the peninsula (thus no place for an "undercounter"
microwave). This also let that "load" move off the countertop
circuits onto one of the less used circuits in the kitchen.


WE have so little counter space, the microwave in the pantry...kind of a
last minute decision...was one of the better moves.



snipped but read
We installed 4 speakers at ceiling level so we can listen to
music without having to lose any counter space to a "radio", etc.

We put a pair of phone/TV/network drops on the counters in case
we later opt to put a phone, small TV or even a laptop there.

I *do* wish we had installed a large (4'x4') skylight in the
food prep area, though. SWMBO vetoed that idea. I would always
welcome extra light!

We did put in new lighting. After some debate we went with Halogen and
it works
well.

We didn't like the halogen lights. Too "stark" (color). We arranged
recessed lights above the counters with a separate circuit above the
sink area (so you can have "reduced lighting" in the early morning
hours, there -- instead of facing a room full of bright lights).
We added under the counter lighting controlled from wall switches
(instead of having to reach up under the counters and fumble around
looking for a switch).


The main halogen light is on a dimmer so we can adjust it "down" if
necessary.

The "hallway" side of the kitchen could use a bit more light.
OTOH, you don't *do* anything over there other than walk *through*
the kitchen (and there's plenty of light for that.

We also arranged for the kitchen lights to be controlled in any
of three locations: at the north end, south end and from the
sink.

Of course, there's always the risk that you'll slap yourself
up-side-da-head just after you finish... and realize some other
thing you *should* have done while you were knee deep in the
mess... :-/ Hopefully, yours won't be anything regretful! :

After all was done, we were sitting in the kitchen yesterday and
talking about
what we might have forgotten. All we could come up with was that it
would have
been nice perhaps to have the vinyl (or whatever it's made out of)
flooring
removed and had a wooden floor put it.

I think you'd probably then want to *cover* it with something.
Kitchens, IME, want to be easy to "mop clean". Too easy for
things to get spilled, there.


Now that the construction is done my wife and I both gave the floor
several good cleanings. Though it's 25 years old it's really in decent
shape...just two very small cracks that are almost invisible.
A while back we paid a friend who needed money to clean it and they
basically put sealer over the dirt and pretty much gummed things
up...and it took several good scrubbings to undo that mess.
Now that it's clean it looks pretty nice...we have not even put the
shiner on yet.

Not only would that delayed the completion date of the project...it
probably
would have been out of my budget ...plus since it would not have
matched the
wooden floor in the dining room...to have had both floors replaced
would have
made it just too large of a project.

Belatedly, we realized that we wanted better shelving in the large
pantry (size of a small walk-in closet). I wanted the shelves to
be adjustable instead of "fixed". But, they are 3' wide and 3' deep
so supporting them (plus whatever is piled *on* them) is a bit
of a challenge.


I made a few changes in the pantry...put in one smaller stainless steel
shelf that was originally the drop leaf from the kitchen island. There
was a nice looking put badly damaged oaken table in there missing legs
that I had sitting on top of a cabinet. One day I found some perfect
legs for it out near someone's trash so I took them home. I was with a
friend at the time who is a scavenger and he said "You are even worse
than I am!"

Weird thing is I knew I needed them...I pictured something in my house
needing them,.,,but did not recall exactly what until I got home. My
friend really laughed when I told him I needed the legs but could not
remember exactly why.

Additionally, I wanted to be able to *tie* the shelves into the
walls (instead of just *setting* a shelf on a support) so that I
could use them to attach sliding drawers/trays, lazy susans, etc.

So, I've been fabricating supports out of 1/2 x 3/4 cold rolled
steel bars in which I've drilled holes every inch along the
length. A bracket on the underside of each shelf will spring-load
pegs into these brackets (two on each side) so the shelf won't
be able to move up, down or in/out until they are retracted.

The 1/2" thickness was chosen to coincide with the thickness of
the drywall on each side of the pantry -- so the supports are
*in* the wall instead of *on* the wall.

Had this sort of thing been left to a (sub)contractor, we'd have
ended up with COTS shelf supports and much *smaller* shelves!


Yep...it's usually good to make your own stuff...a contractor would use
"off the shelf" product that would work but possibly not 100% ideal for
the situation.


One other comment:

Since we ended up getting rid of a lot of junk we did not need from the
kitchen....I surprised my wife and for the last few weeks have been
getting my 30 year old crap out of the attic and basement. I got rid of
so much clutter I was now able to find a few things that I wanted but
could never find.


One of them was my little pin-ball machine from when I was 5 years
old...It's a great antique that I will put in my office after I get all
the dust cleaned out of it.

On 09/10/2015 03:51 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:26:11 -0500, philo wrote:

As I had mentioned, because my wife and I remodeled our kitchen and did
most of the work ourselves and for the most part re-purposed existing
appliances cabinets, chairs and tables etc...it was quite easy on the
budget.

With absolutely beautiful results.


Was talking to a friend this evening who asked about the project and he
told me that his kitchen remodel (all done by contractors) cost $60K.

My whole house cost $30K originally (1979) so putting $60k into the
kitchen did not seem like something I'd do.


There's "remodeling" and there's "rebuilding."
Paint and a few new appliances/cabinets can be considered to be
remodeling.
Add new walls with new tiles and the underlying new electrical and
plumbing, new cabinetry, and expensive SS appliances, and it's in
"rebuilding" territory. Skilled craftsmen just add to the cost.
About 30 years ago I remodeled 2 kitchens in my 2-flat.
They were 1920's era kitchens, with no cabinets. Large pantry.
I just patched some plaster, painted, and added about 18' of floor to
ceiling cabinets and countertop to each kitchen. That included sinks
and dishwashers. Formica clad cabinets and countertops.
Cost me about $5k, but my brother got the cabinets with his GC
license. Would have been $10k retail. Without labor.
You pay a lot for skilled labor.
Contractor cost markup takes a big bite.








The main rebuilding was done 25 years ago when I gutted the kitchen and
as mentioned put in 5/8" drywall. This was mostly a remodeling
project...but I did have to remove a bit of drywall to add more
electrical circuits.

Yep, for a contractor to have done that would have been costly.

One thing I've also noticed about contractors is that sometimes they
just don't show up.

I've made verbal deals (with no down payment) to a number of contractors
and they just plain never showed up.


Worse would be that they'd decide to quit in the middle of a job.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:17:54 -0500, philo wrote:



One thing I've also noticed about contractors is that sometimes they
just don't show up.

I've made verbal deals (with no down payment) to a number of contractors
and they just plain never showed up.


Yup that is very frustrating. I have had guys come out, plan the whole
job, tell me how badly they need the work and then drive away, never
to be seen again.


Worse would be that they'd decide to quit in the middle of a job.

It happens, Remember when you pay them, they are done. No reason to
come back. Be sure to hold back enough money to get them back and
never pay for something that isn't finished. Buy your own materials
and have them delivered to your job. Don't front up "material" money.

"philo" wrote in message ...

As I had mentioned, because my wife and I remodeled our kitchen and did
most of the work ourselves and for the most part re-purposed existing
appliances cabinets, chairs and tables etc...it was quite easy on the
budget.

With absolutely beautiful results.


Was talking to a friend this evening who asked about the project and he
told me that his kitchen remodel (all done by contractors) cost $60K.

My whole house cost $30K originally (1979) so putting $60k into the
kitchen did not seem like something I'd do.


My wife and I then tried to recall what his kitchen looked like and all
we could remember was that it was too generic-looking to even leave much
of an impression.


TAKE THIS POAST AND SHOVE IT.
LOL

On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony
wall behind the stove, etc. So, we had to plan carefully to ensure
we ended up with enough cabinet space, the right sorts of cabinets,
electric outlets in the right locations, etc.

Well, the ceiling was raised 25 years ago. The previous owner put in a
drop-ceiling which did exactly that...it dropped. It happened about an hour
after my daughter told me it was going to fall.

Ours was a soffit that hid some HVAC ductwork. But, the ductwork
was off to one side -- yet the ceiling *throughout* the kitchen
suffered this ~13inch reduction in height.

Raising the ceiling thus required moving the ductwork and demo'ing the
carpentry that implemented the soffit. But, that left us with a
ceiling with a slight pitch (house has "flat" roof so "ceiling" is
really the underside of the *roof* joists). So, had to then build a
soffit with a very slight taper to yield a ceiling that was
parallel to the floor. Otherwise, there would be a tapered "gap"
above the upper cabinets (HIGHLIGHTING the slope of the ceiling)

As the ceiling of the kitchen extends into the family room, this means
doing the same in the family room, as well (which is easily three
times the size of the kitchen area).

I took a wreaking bar and entirely gutted the kitchen and put in 5/8" drywall,
walls and ceiling. The entire first floor is 9' ceilings. I have a friend who
is over seven feet tall who says there are few houses as comfortable as ours.

We opted from the start to move the microwave into the small pantry.
It freed up a lot of counter space after deciding to remove the
cabinets over the peninsula (thus no place for an "undercounter"
microwave). This also let that "load" move off the countertop
circuits onto one of the less used circuits in the kitchen.

WE have so little counter space, the microwave in the pantry...kind of a last
minute decision...was one of the better moves.

While we *could* have left it in place, it really represented a big
chunk of lost counterspace. E.g., when I do my holiday baking,
there is nowhere near enough counterspace to cool the 20 dozen cookies
while finishing *baking* them!

We did put in new lighting. After some debate we went with Halogen and
it works
well.

We didn't like the halogen lights. Too "stark" (color). We arranged
recessed lights above the counters with a separate circuit above the
sink area (so you can have "reduced lighting" in the early morning
hours, there -- instead of facing a room full of bright lights).
We added under the counter lighting controlled from wall switches
(instead of having to reach up under the counters and fumble around
looking for a switch).

The main halogen light is on a dimmer so we can adjust it "down" if necessary.

The two kitchen lighting circuits are on dimmers. With just the
lights over the sink on -- and on at lowest setting -- it's almost
like a nightlight; you can just make out the outlines of all the
counters, appliances, etc. in a pitch black house. We will eventually
have to replace the light switches with "smarter" ones as the
dimmer function is currently present in *one* location (recall
each light can be controlled from any of three locations!). So,
you often turn a light ON at one location and have to walk to
another location to tweek the intensity. (We discipline ourselves
to leave one circuit set at high and the other at low)

*I* enjoyed the brightness that the halogens provided. But, we didn't like
the "color" of the light.

After all was done, we were sitting in the kitchen yesterday and
talking about
what we might have forgotten. All we could come up with was that it
would have
been nice perhaps to have the vinyl (or whatever it's made out of)
flooring
removed and had a wooden floor put it.

I think you'd probably then want to *cover* it with something.
Kitchens, IME, want to be easy to "mop clean". Too easy for
things to get spilled, there.

Now that the construction is done my wife and I both gave the floor several
good cleanings. Though it's 25 years old it's really in decent shape...just two
very small cracks that are almost invisible.
A while back we paid a friend who needed money to clean it and they basically
put sealer over the dirt and pretty much gummed things up...and it took several
good scrubbings to undo that mess.
Now that it's clean it looks pretty nice...we have not even put the shiner on yet.

We have (ceramic) tile, here -- I guess it's a "southwestern thing". It's
great for cleanup (damp mop) but unforgiving when it comes to things
being dropped onto it (e.g., glass jars). While a wooden floor
might have a *tiny* bit of "bounce", this just causes everything to shatter
on impact.

Additionally, I wanted to be able to *tie* the shelves into the
walls (instead of just *setting* a shelf on a support) so that I
could use them to attach sliding drawers/trays, lazy susans, etc.

So, I've been fabricating supports out of 1/2 x 3/4 cold rolled
steel bars in which I've drilled holes every inch along the
length. A bracket on the underside of each shelf will spring-load
pegs into these brackets (two on each side) so the shelf won't
be able to move up, down or in/out until they are retracted.

The 1/2" thickness was chosen to coincide with the thickness of
the drywall on each side of the pantry -- so the supports are
*in* the wall instead of *on* the wall.

Had this sort of thing been left to a (sub)contractor, we'd have
ended up with COTS shelf supports and much *smaller* shelves!

Yep...it's usually good to make your own stuff...a contractor would use "off
the shelf" product that would work but possibly not 100% ideal for the situation.

A lot of folks don't have the imagination or skills to be able to
formulate their own solutions to varied problems (e.g., my dishwasher
replumbing).

One other comment:

Since we ended up getting rid of a lot of junk we did not need from the
kitchen....I surprised my wife and for the last few weeks have been getting my
30 year old crap out of the attic and basement. I got rid of so much clutter I
was now able to find a few things that I wanted but could never find.

Wit the flat "frontier style" roof, we have no attic. And, on a slab,
no basement. Add to this the fact that the garage gets VERY hot for
a large portion of the year (we average 65 days above 100F) means we
can't even rely on *that* for certain types of storage!

This limits *what* you can squirrel away -- as well as *where* you
can stash it! Hand tools, cables, etc. all fare well in the garage.
But, some of my electronic stuff has to find a home *indoors*
(under beds, in closets, etc.) as it won't tolerate the heat.

One of them was my little pin-ball machine from when I was 5 years old...It's a
great antique that I will put in my office after I get all the dust cleaned out
of it.

I have a full size pinball machine stored in the garage. Prior to moving
here, I gave away two others along with a "Tempest" arcade piece (full-size
upright). I'd like to set the pintable up on the back porch but fear the
neighbors would quickly tire of the bells, etc. (it's an old electromechanical
machine so you can't just "turn down the volume")

On 09/10/2015 12:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony




snipped but all read


I've added a photo of the "pouch" I made which really cleans up the kitchen


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0

On 09/10/2015 09:51 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:17:54 -0500, philo wrote:



One thing I've also noticed about contractors is that sometimes they
just don't show up.

I've made verbal deals (with no down payment) to a number of contractors
and they just plain never showed up.


Yup that is very frustrating. I have had guys come out, plan the whole
job, tell me how badly they need the work and then drive away, never
to be seen again.


Worse would be that they'd decide to quit in the middle of a job.

It happens, Remember when you pay them, they are done. No reason to
come back. Be sure to hold back enough money to get them back and
never pay for something that isn't finished. Buy your own materials
and have them delivered to your job. Don't front up "material" money.




The guy who did my roof, replaced the roof on the house and the roof on
the front porch...but did not do the back porch.

He did not charge me for it...but it took me at least six months to get
him to come back and do it.


He was a good guy though as I told him I did not have quite enough money
to pay for the entire job all at once...so he held the bill for *six
months* and did not tack on any add'l fee...So I could not complain too
much about the back porch.

On 9/10/2015 11:20 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 12:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony


I've added a photo of the "pouch" I made which really cleans up the kitchen

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0

Sort of like an "appliance garage" -- but "subterranean"! :

How do you keep "crud" from falling in there? Or, clean it
out after it's fallen in?

On 09/10/2015 01:30 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 11:20 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 12:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony


I've added a photo of the "pouch" I made which really cleans up the
kitchen

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0

Sort of like an "appliance garage" -- but "subterranean"! :

How do you keep "crud" from falling in there? Or, clean it
out after it's fallen in?




It is kept so full that not much can fall in...but to clean it...all the
jars that the utensils are in can be removed in two seconds.


We've only been using the new kitchen for a week now, so time will
tell...but it should be a lot easier to clean than our old kitchen.

On 9/10/2015 7:17 AM, philo wrote:

The main rebuilding was done 25 years ago when I gutted the kitchen and as
mentioned put in 5/8" drywall. This was mostly a remodeling project...but I did
have to remove a bit of drywall to add more electrical circuits.

Yep, for a contractor to have done that would have been costly.

And, often contractors *think* they know more than they actually *do*!
And, hire grunts who know even LESS!

We had A/C installed many years ago. The house had been built with
this in mind. A 4" (6"??) pipe is buried under the slab that extends
from a location outside teh south side of the house and terminates
in the "furnace room". I.e., it's intended for the refrigeration lines
to pass through that tube after the house had been built atop it.

Pipe/tube is not a straight run. Rather, like a "limp" dog leg:

furnace
/
outside ----------/

Of course, as this is *below* the slab, the pipe also has a twist
*upward* (i.e., out of your display as viewing this) at the
furnace end.

Passing a 1.25" dia copper pipe through this tube is a chore as the
pipe really doesn't *want* to bend; it has to be coerced to do so.

The bozos that came to install this stuff spent *hours* trying to
get the pipe through the tube. The self-appointed "einstein" of
the group eventually, CONFIDENTLY announced that our "house was
built wrong" -- depite the fact that you can *walk* to similar homes
*with* installed A/C in the neighborhood!

Turns out, they were trying to PUSH the pipe through the
tube FROM THE FURNACE END -- despite my telling them to do it
from the *outside* end ("Oh, but it's so much cooler working
INSIDE the house than sitting out in that hot Sun!").

Think about it: you *push* the pipe into the furnace-end opening.
After a foot, or so, it has to bend 45 "up" degrees to transition
to a horizontal orientation to travel along the underside of the
slab. Then, after 3 feet, it has to bend "right" to pass through
that portion of the dog-leg. Then, 30 feet straight out.

But, it's not a FLEXIBLE pipe! So, once bent, it wants to *stay*
bent! At the same time, new portions of pipe *need* to bend
to follow along after the earlier portions of pipe. So, the
more pipe you have in the tube, the harder it is to push!

Solution: feed the line through from the *outside*. While it
is still outside the tube, you can carefully straighten it so
it will travel that ~30 feet unimpeded. Then, when it encounters
the dog leg AT THE END of it's travels, you only have to get
a few *feet* to bend through that transition region. Additionally,
don't just *push* the pipe but also *pull* it from the furnace
end!

One thing I've also noticed about contractors is that sometimes they just don't
show up.

Or, show up and get started -- just enough to "get you pregnant". Then,
chase after OTHER jobs figuring they can come back to finish yours, later.
You, of course, have no recourse (unless you've set performance goals in
your WRITTEN contract).

I've made verbal deals (with no down payment) to a number of contractors and
they just plain never showed up.

Worse would be that they'd decide to quit in the middle of a job.

On 9/10/2015 11:44 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 01:30 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 11:20 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 12:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony


I've added a photo of the "pouch" I made which really cleans up the
kitchen

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0

Sort of like an "appliance garage" -- but "subterranean"! :

How do you keep "crud" from falling in there? Or, clean it
out after it's fallen in?

It is kept so full that not much can fall in...but to clean it...all the jars
that the utensils are in can be removed in two seconds.

I'm more concerned with crumbs and bits of foodstuffs. It seems
like you'd almost have to *vacuum* it out?

We've only been using the new kitchen for a week now, so time will tell...but
it should be a lot easier to clean than our old kitchen.

Eating out works well, too! :

On 09/10/2015 01:57 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 11:44 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 01:30 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 11:20 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 12:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling,
move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony


I've added a photo of the "pouch" I made which really cleans up the
kitchen

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0


Sort of like an "appliance garage" -- but "subterranean"! :

How do you keep "crud" from falling in there? Or, clean it
out after it's fallen in?

It is kept so full that not much can fall in...but to clean it...all
the jars
that the utensils are in can be removed in two seconds.

I'm more concerned with crumbs and bits of foodstuffs. It seems
like you'd almost have to *vacuum* it out?



Forgot to mention that there are trays in those pockets that come out...
and under the trays we have it lined with folded over paper towels...so
it would be easy to clean,

We've only been using the new kitchen for a week now, so time will
tell...but
it should be a lot easier to clean than our old kitchen.

Eating out works well, too! :

On 9/10/2015 2:23 PM, philo wrote:

[attrs elided]

How do you keep "crud" from falling in there? Or, clean it
out after it's fallen in?

It is kept so full that not much can fall in...but to clean it...all
the jars
that the utensils are in can be removed in two seconds.

I'm more concerned with crumbs and bits of foodstuffs. It seems
like you'd almost have to *vacuum* it out?

Forgot to mention that there are trays in those pockets that come out...
and under the trays we have it lined with folded over paper towels...so it
would be easy to clean,

We took that approach with the sink base cabinet: had some "custom"
trays made that fit wall-to-wall to catch any spills, leaks, etc.
before they would put the cabinet itself at risk of damage.

On 09/10/2015 06:36 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 2:23 PM, philo wrote:

[attrs elided]

How do you keep "crud" from falling in there? Or, clean it
out after it's fallen in?

It is kept so full that not much can fall in...but to clean it...all
the jars
that the utensils are in can be removed in two seconds.

I'm more concerned with crumbs and bits of foodstuffs. It seems
like you'd almost have to *vacuum* it out?

Forgot to mention that there are trays in those pockets that come out...
and under the trays we have it lined with folded over paper
towels...so it
would be easy to clean,

We took that approach with the sink base cabinet: had some "custom"
trays made that fit wall-to-wall to catch any spills, leaks, etc.
before they would put the cabinet itself at risk of damage.




I have a pile of lumber in my basement and found that a 36" board for
the back plate was just right...went down there and found a 35" board
that was just right...Due to all the oddball pieces of scrap lumber,
made the whole thing with just three saw cuts.

For this project I had pulled wood out of there all month long...and
doggone it, the wood pile does not look like it got any smaller.,

So, I've been fabricating supports out of 1/2 x 3/4 cold rolled
steel bars in which I've drilled holes every inch along the
length. A bracket on the underside of each shelf will spring-load
pegs into these brackets (two on each side) so the shelf won't
be able to move up, down or in/out until they are retracted.

Where did you get the spring-loaded pins, that's a fantastic idea and those pins could be used in many places?

On 9/10/2015 6:35 PM, wrote:
So, I've been fabricating supports out of 1/2 x 3/4 cold rolled steel bars
in which I've drilled holes every inch along the length. A bracket on the
underside of each shelf will spring-load pegs into these brackets (two on
each side) so the shelf won't be able to move up, down or in/out until they
are retracted.

Where did you get the spring-loaded pins, that's a fantastic idea and those
pins could be used in many places?

Originally, I considered using bullet catch's as they could be installed
as "blind" hardware. But, they won't support the load (weight) -- a
natural consequence of their design!

You also need a way of "retracting" the pins in order to remove/relocate
the shelf. I.e., AS IF there was a little "lever" on the pin that you
could grasp to pull the pin back out of the hole in the support.

Rather than looking for something special/custom, I just opted to use
latch bolts:

http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-g/sliding-bolt-latch-69346-2871779.jpg

Place shelf in position (this is actually difficult because the shelves
are pretty heavy and you have ANOTHER shelf -- with stuff on it -- below
the shelf you are installing); slip one bolt out into its mating hole in
the upright support; move to the diagonally opposing bolt and engage it
with its support; then find the other bolts and finish up.

You can also use "security bolts" for doors (the sort that slide into
the door frame to hold the top and bottom of a door in place). These
are available in concealable forms (i.e., you'd embed them *in* the sides
of the shelves). But, that adds a lot of cost and makes the shelves thicker
to conceal the bolts.

You also have to consider how you will be fabricating the supports.
E.g., if the bolt you choose has a square profile, how are you going
to "perforate" the support with all these SQUARE holes?? :-(

On 9/10/2015 2:20 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 12:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony




snipped but all read


I've added a photo of the "pouch" I made which really cleans up the kitchen


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0


I like that! At hand but not cluttered looking. You keep mustard
there? ;o) I hate digging through cupboards or drawers.... I have
everything in my pretty-small kitchen at hand, and nothing that has to
be removed to get something else. Cookware is hanging on a rod above
the kitchen sink...not so low it hits me in the head. I don't have to
move more than about 3' to cook, 'cept to take a smoke break.

On 09/11/2015 02:56 AM, Norminn wrote:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0


I like that! At hand but not cluttered looking. You keep mustard
there? ;o) I hate digging through cupboards or drawers.... I have
everything in my pretty-small kitchen at hand, and nothing that has to
be removed to get something else. Cookware is hanging on a rod above
the kitchen sink...not so low it hits me in the head. I don't have to
move more than about 3' to cook, 'cept to take a smoke break.




Looks like a mustard jar but it's actually a jar of honey. The guy who
helped us with the kitchen left it with us to use when he has coffee.

The kitchen is the most efficient it's ever been.

My wife has invited a small crowd of people over for dinner and drinks
tonight.

Norminn wrote:
On 9/10/2015 2:20 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 12:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony




snipped but all read


I've added a photo of the "pouch" I made which really cleans up the
kitchen


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0


I like that! At hand but not cluttered looking. You keep mustard
there? ;o) I hate digging through cupboards or drawers.... I have
everything in my pretty-small kitchen at hand, and nothing that has to
be removed to get something else. Cookware is hanging on a rod above
the kitchen sink...not so low it hits me in the head. I don't have to
move more than about 3' to cook, 'cept to take a smoke break.

Big walk thru or see thru pantry is good. Our kitchen island is not
fixed in one location. It is kinda mobile we can move it if needed
without any problem. Wine racks are converted to storage drawers from
island. Did not live long enough in a house to do any kinda rework.
We just designed/custom built new house in new neighborhood. After 5
times no more, at 75 I don't feel like having another house built.
Downtown condo is sold. Will sell this house when time comes and moving
out to cabin for good. Our cabin is near a town, so hospital is close by
for an emergency. I have a location code for medvac helicopter landing
at my cabin too in case.

philo posted for all of us...



On 09/10/2015 12:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony




snipped but all read


I've added a photo of the "pouch" I made which really cleans up the kitchen


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0

Not to be critical because I know that I would only do worse. What is the
ceiling box at the crown molding?

--
Tekkie

On 09/11/2015 03:50 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
philo posted for all of us...



On 09/10/2015 12:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony




snipped but all read


I've added a photo of the "pouch" I made which really cleans up the kitchen


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0

Not to be critical because I know that I would only do worse. What is the
ceiling box at the crown molding?




Ha ha ha...

I made them myself can't you tell?

Quite a few people like them though.

We were going to buy them but my wife did not like the kinds they had in
the store, so I just made my own by cutting a 4 x 4

I knew I'd never get the miter right as the old house is not completely
square

Had the whole gang over last night including the $60,000 kitchen guy and
people who had seen his kitchen...I think they were all impressed with
our low-budget wonder.


One of the people there whispered to me that his wife got an inheritance
and the kitchen is where the money went.


If I got a $60k inheritance, I still would have done our budget
kitchen....thrown one hell of a party and taken a nice vacation...then
invested the remaining $50k


BTW: One guy got drunk and spilled red wine on one the the newly
upholstered kitchen chairs. Though my wife got the stain out she was not
happy.



Sheesh...you get a new kitchen with a lot of people drinking and
something is going to happen. This was pretty minor.


One of the women who was over actually has a video of herself setting
firecrackers off on her dining room table. I somehow suspect heavy
drinking was involved.

On 9/12/2015 2:04 PM, philo wrote:
Had the whole gang over last night including the $60,000 kitchen guy and people
who had seen his kitchen...I think they were all impressed with our low-budget
wonder.

Congratulations! Though I suspect some of the husbands will start harboring
ill thoughts towards you as their wives pester them with "Why can't WE (which
is code for YOU) do something like that? I'm tired of this old wallpaper
and we could use some new appliances..." :

One of the people there whispered to me that his wife got an inheritance and
the kitchen is where the money went.

shrug Folks have different priorities. One year, I received 48 pounds of
Turkish pistachio nuts for XMAS. By far, the BEST gift!! (despite the
fact that I had nothing to show for it, later)

If I got a $60k inheritance, I still would have done our budget
kitchen....thrown one hell of a party and taken a nice vacation...then invested
the remaining $50k

*Or*, buy 3,000 pounds of pistachios!!!!!

BTW: One guy got drunk and spilled red wine on one the the newly upholstered
kitchen chairs. Though my wife got the stain out she was not happy.

Next time, make a very visible point of serving him WATER! Let others
wonder why (and dare to ask!)

Sheesh...you get a new kitchen with a lot of people drinking and something is
going to happen. This was pretty minor.

One of the women who was over actually has a video of herself setting
firecrackers off on her dining room table. I somehow suspect heavy drinking was
involved.

One wonders hat she'll be naming the newborn, come May...

On 09/12/2015 04:53 PM, Don Y wrote:
.

shrug Folks have different priorities. One year, I received 48
pounds of
Turkish pistachio nuts for XMAS. By far, the BEST gift!! (despite the
fact that I had nothing to show for it, later)

If I got a $60k inheritance, I still would have done our budget
kitchen....thrown one hell of a party and taken a nice vacation...then
invested
the remaining $50k

*Or*, buy 3,000 pounds of pistachios!!!!!



I love pistachios...Will have to get some the next time I go to the store.

Once in California a bought a whole shopping bag full of them ...cheap!

BTW: One guy got drunk and spilled red wine on one the the newly
upholstered
kitchen chairs. Though my wife got the stain out she was not happy.

Next time, make a very visible point of serving him WATER! Let others
wonder why (and dare to ask!)


He is not a wine drinker...he knocked over the red wine reaching for his
bottle of Jack Daniels.

BTW: He called this morning to apologize and offer to pay for the damage...
I told him...no problem...stain came out.

Sheesh...you get a new kitchen with a lot of people drinking and
something is
going to happen. This was pretty minor.

One of the women who was over actually has a video of herself setting
firecrackers off on her dining room table. I somehow suspect heavy
drinking was
involved.

One wonders hat she'll be naming the newborn, come May...

She is a bit crazy...even for one of my friends she is "way out there"

She would not get away with that here of course

On 9/12/2015 5:44 PM, philo wrote:
On 09/12/2015 04:53 PM, Don Y wrote:
.

shrug Folks have different priorities. One year, I received 48
pounds of
Turkish pistachio nuts for XMAS. By far, the BEST gift!! (despite the
fact that I had nothing to show for it, later)

If I got a $60k inheritance, I still would have done our budget
kitchen....thrown one hell of a party and taken a nice vacation...then
invested
the remaining $50k

*Or*, buy 3,000 pounds of pistachios!!!!!

I love pistachios...Will have to get some the next time I go to the store.

Once in California a bought a whole shopping bag full of them ...cheap!

They're crap. Buy some turkish ones. The difference is definitely
worth the cost. Google "Zenobia".

Sheesh...you get a new kitchen with a lot of people drinking and
something is
going to happen. This was pretty minor.

One of the women who was over actually has a video of herself setting
firecrackers off on her dining room table. I somehow suspect heavy
drinking was
involved.

One wonders hat she'll be naming the newborn, come May...

She is a bit crazy...even for one of my friends she is "way out there"

She would not get away with that here of course

Crazy can be fun.

philo posted for all of us...



On 09/11/2015 03:50 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
philo posted for all of us...



On 09/10/2015 12:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/10/2015 7:13 AM, philo wrote:
On 09/10/2015 06:45 AM, Don Y wrote:

We did most of ours "up front". We wanted to raise the ceiling, move
the peninsula, remove the cabinets *over* the peninsula, add a pony




snipped but all read


I've added a photo of the "pouch" I made which really cleans up the kitchen


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q0ng9p327...nG-Zz72pa?dl=0

Not to be critical because I know that I would only do worse. What is the
ceiling box at the crown molding?




Ha ha ha...

I made them myself can't you tell?

Quite a few people like them though.

We were going to buy them but my wife did not like the kinds they had in
the store, so I just made my own by cutting a 4 x 4

I knew I'd never get the miter right as the old house is not completely
square

I think I didn't phrase my question correctly. Are the corner blocks to hide
something or just a transitional treatment?

--
Tekkie