I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?

On 08/21/2015 07:09 AM, micky wrote:
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

Sometimes the switchover or charging circuitry fails. The last time I
replaced my home UPS the battery was good but it wouldn't switch over.
We have a lot of UPS's at work and the failure rate is fairly high. That
goes for APC or no-name units.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

Plug a radio into one of the protect outlets. Pull the plug on the UPS.
Is the radio still functioning? The 60w bulb is also a good idea since
that will allow you to see how long the battery will maintain the
output. One failure mode I've seen several times is on switchover the
UPS will effectively short the output crashing the computer while one
just plugged into the wall survives the very brief flicker fine.

As far as the control connection to the computer, good luck. Find the
appropriate software for the machine and your OS like PowerChute.

"micky" wrote in message
...
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.


The UPS may be like some of the battery powered drills. You can buy a new
drill with two batteries for what just one or two of the batteries cost.

I have not looked at the cost to make the batteries, but there must be a big
mark up on them when they sell for over $ 50 each,but you can get two, a
charger and new drill for the price of less than two seperate batteries.

Where I worked we had a lot of small motors (around 1/2 HP) that had a gear
box on them. We could get the motor and gear box cheaper than just the
motor.

On 8/21/2015 8:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.


The UPS may be like some of the battery powered drills. You can buy a new
drill with two batteries for what just one or two of the batteries cost.

I have not looked at the cost to make the batteries, but there must be a big
mark up on them when they sell for over $ 50 each,but you can get two, a
charger and new drill for the price of less than two seperate batteries.

Where I worked we had a lot of small motors (around 1/2 HP) that had a gear
box on them. We could get the motor and gear box cheaper than just the
motor.





Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.

On 8/21/2015 8:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.


The UPS may be like some of the battery powered drills. You can buy a new
drill with two batteries for what just one or two of the batteries cost.

I have not looked at the cost to make the batteries, but there must be a big
mark up on them when they sell for over $ 50 each,but you can get two, a
charger and new drill for the price of less than two seperate batteries.

Where I worked we had a lot of small motors (around 1/2 HP) that had a gear
box on them. We could get the motor and gear box cheaper than just the
motor.





Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.

With the UPS NOT plugged into the wall

Plug in a load such as a small lamp into the UPS.

Press AND HOLD the on button for about 5 seconds

That should turn it on.

Mark

On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:17:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
With the UPS NOT plugged into the wall

Plug in a load such as a small lamp into the UPS.

Press AND HOLD the on button for about 5 seconds

That should turn it on.

Mark

Unless you're doing business or other critical work, it's not
clear to me that you even need a UPS. I've never had one and
despite numerous power outages, never lost anything, had any
issue with the disk getting corrupted, etc. Typical apps like
word, excel, etc also do an autosave every 5 mins or so, and
that's saved and there too.

On 8/21/2015 10:15 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:


Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.


I just replaced the batteries in one unit. If you buy the genuine
battery from APC is comes with the wiring harness attached and you pull
out the two batteries as a unit and slide the new one in. Cost is $110.

I found a place that sells replacements. I had to take the harness off
(four spade connections) and put it on the new batteries. I also taped
the two together to be a solid unit too. Cost was $37. plus half a
penny for tape and five minutes to do the connections.

This is where I bought, but there are many other sources.
www.batterysharks.com/

On 8/21/2015 9:09 AM, micky wrote:
I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?


Apparently, the batteries are ok in the one unit. Try putting the
'good' batteries into the other unit so see if it works, before ordering
new ones. As others have said, you can get good batteries for cheap on
the internet. I've replace mine at least 3 or 4 times over the last 15
or so years and it's still going. When I was 1st gifted with this old
AT&T UPS, it wouldn't even pass line current to the output. I borrowed
a bunch of 6 volt batteries and connected 4 in series ... this UPS
actually uses 24 volts instead of the usual 12 volts. Once the new
batteries were connected, it started passing line voltage through.
Apparently, on this unit, when the batteries are dead, it tells you by
not working at all. I've kept this unit because it is built like a tank
inside. It has big hefty line filtering also.

micky wrote:
I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?



The XS900 is a "loser".

Put it back on the curb.

Check the reviews on Amazon. This is how
I judge them.

http://www.amazon.com/APC-900VA-Back...ustomerReviews

An internal fan with no vent ?
I hope not. Maybe the thing is
ferroresonant and the noise is the
transformer.

The APC site claims to be "down for maintenance" at the
moment, or I'd have a look at the user manual. It could
be an AVR unit for example (automatic voltage regulator)
and "line interactive". That means, it is buggering
with the power at all times, one way or another.

*******

And yes, replacing batteries makes perfect sense, on the
mid-range ones. I paid $250 for my UPS when new, the
battery lasted *ten years*, and a new battery cost $60.
The price on batteries has come down slightly over
the years, presumably since all the batteries are made
in China. And if you take the rate of inflation into
account, the price has come down.

One secret to battery life, you can do nothing about.
But you can control the "level of discharge". I'm always
careful, if I'm in the room, to shut down the computer
loads then switch off the ATX supply, to spare the battery
when the lights go out. The shallower the discharge, the
longer they last. Don't rely on the low voltage cutoff on
the UPS itself, to "protect" the battery. The battery life
can last longer, if you take care of it.

I don't consider the UPS to be an "alternate power source",
it's merely a way to ride out one-second outages, when the
utility switches over stuff. I have one computer cabled to
the automatic shutdown feature, and Windows happens to have
the right driver for that APC unit, already in Windows. For
the second computer connected to it, I shut down that
computer manually.

*******

The low end of the UPS market, the failure rate out of the
box is 10%. And the Amazon description for the XS900,
shows it just doesn't last with time.

There are different kinds of UPS architectures.
There are SPS (standby power supply). There
are AVR (automatic voltage regulation). There
are more than five different types. The SPS remains
cool to the touch, because the inverter doesn't
run when AC power is available. The battery charges
to a constant voltage (and you can stick your meter
on the battery terminals after a 24 hour charge
period and verify the terminal voltage is
correct). That's one check I could do after installing
the new battery.

The UPS has the ability to do a load test. It places
a known load on the battery for a few seconds, and checks
the resulting terminal voltage. The output impedance of
the battery is considered a health indicator. A high
impedance battery, drops to a low voltage when loaded.
A UPS which "beeps" once every 24 hours, has just done
the short load test, and found the terminal voltage
to be wanting.

And a 60W light bulb makes a fine load. It is resistive.
The load is relatively well controlled (draws 120W when
cold, has a "surge" due to the cold resistance), but
eventually settles down to 60W. If the output voltage
of the UPS is not correct (makes 200V rather than 113V),
then the color of the filament when lit gives a quick
indication of whether the output voltage is correct or
not. I can easily spot when my power here drops to 100V
at the mast, just by the color of the remaining incandescent
bulbs I use. LED bulbs on the other hand, are regulated,
and have no characteristic useful for analyzing what
the utility is doing to you.

*******

For your next curbside UPS, check the reviews and
see if the unit stinks or not. If a lot of users
complain of weird symptoms within the first year
or two, chances are fixing one up is not a wise
use of time or money.

Have fun,
Paul

On 8/21/2015 10:38 AM, trader_4 wrote:


Unless you're doing business or other critical work, it's not
clear to me that you even need a UPS. I've never had one and
despite numerous power outages, never lost anything, had any
issue with the disk getting corrupted, etc. Typical apps like
word, excel, etc also do an autosave every 5 mins or so, and
that's saved and there too.


I have one now, but did not for decades before. My reasoning? You can
get them cheap now, about $50, they also act as a surge suppressor, it
saves some annoyances. I've never lost any data from a power failure.

I also put on in my family room but not for a computer. I have a
controller for lights that has a defective internal battery backup and
the TV box that takes forever to reboot once power is cut. At least
once a week that phase would have a power glitch and I've have to reset
the times in the controller and wait seemingly forever for the TV to go
on again. The power drop is usually just a second or so, enough to be a
PITA.

Do I "need" it? No. It is strictly a matter of convenience that I'm
willing to pay $50 for.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:02:08
-0400, Art Todesco wrote:

On 8/21/2015 9:09 AM, micky wrote:
I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?


Apparently, the batteries are ok in the one unit. Try putting the
'good' batteries into the other unit so see if it works, before ordering
new ones. As others have said, you can get good batteries for cheap on
the internet. I've replace mine at least 3 or 4 times over the last 15
or so years and it's still going. When I was 1st gifted with this old
AT&T UPS, it wouldn't even pass line current to the output. I borrowed
a bunch of 6 volt batteries and connected 4 in series ... this UPS
actually uses 24 volts instead of the usual 12 volts. Once the new
batteries were connected, it started passing line voltage through.
Apparently, on this unit, when the batteries are dead, it tells you by
not working at all.

What a system!

The other answers were valuable and I'm going to reply to them later,
but this is the answer I was looking for.

Somehow I was suspicious that this could happen, so I'll see if it's
happening to me.

Somewhere I have some worn-out 12-volt batteries but since they're
buried, now is just the time to do what you say, because I'm going out
soon to buy 12 volt batteries for the other two (There's another small
one that I didn't mention.)

Now would also be the time to order by mail, since I need 2, maybe 3,
and I would save on shipping, but these things fit so tightly, and the
dimensions listed for the NP7-12, for example, one dimension was smaller
than my old battery but another was bigger than it and wouldnt' fit in
the UPS. Better to buy in person in this case. I'll take both
batteries and one UPS with me.

Even the dimensions given on the APC page for the specific UPS were like
that, one maximum dimension bigger than my battery, but one smaller.
Neither of which makes sense since my battery exactly fits the space. In
fact in two of the three cases, it's an APC battery (maybe the original
one?) Hard to believe they would get their own dimensions wrong.

I've kept this unit because it is built like a tank
inside. It has big hefty line filtering also.

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 07:38:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Unless you're doing business or other critical work, it's not
clear to me that you even need a UPS. I've never had one and
despite numerous power outages, never lost anything, had any
issue with the disk getting corrupted, etc. Typical apps like
word, excel, etc also do an autosave every 5 mins or so, and
that's saved and there too.

Never used a UPS at home. Did put an APC on a work server with the
Power Chute software. It saved the server during a "brown out" which
happened. There was a huge power surge, recorded in the Power Chute
log. Forget what the voltage was but it surprised me, it was so high.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
I also put on in my family room but not for a computer. I have a
controller for lights that has a defective internal battery backup and the
TV box that takes forever to reboot once power is cut. At least once a
week that phase would have a power glitch and I've have to reset the times
in the controller and wait seemingly forever for the TV to go on again.
The power drop is usually just a second or so, enough to be a PITA.

Do I "need" it? No. It is strictly a matter of convenience that I'm
willing to pay $50 for.


Sounds like you have the same kind of cable box we had before switching to
Direct TV. The box used to boot fairley fast when we first got it after
moving here. Then it started taking longer to boot up. It was not usually
a power loss, but once a month or so I had to reboot it because it would
lock up or something else.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:17:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
With the UPS NOT plugged into the wall

Plug in a load such as a small lamp into the UPS.

Press AND HOLD the on button for about 5 seconds

That should turn it on.

Mark

Unless you're doing business or other critical work, it's not
clear to me that you even need a UPS. I've never had one and
despite numerous power outages, never lost anything, had any
issue with the disk getting corrupted, etc. Typical apps like
word, excel, etc also do an autosave every 5 mins or so, and
that's saved and there too.

I must do a lot more work than you do in 5 minutes. I save more frequently
than that.

I have one on the home computer, but I also have the cordless phone and
internet modem/wifi plugged into it as well.

On 8/21/2015 6:09 AM, micky wrote:
I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

In general, you should be able to replace the batteries and extend
the "life" of the UPS. The UPS manufacturer would like you to
purchase the batteries from *them* -- at a highly inflated price!

Most batteries are standard case sizes (sometimes there are ~0.1" differences).
Virtually all used in UPS's are 12V -- though some UPS's will use 1, 2 or
4 such batteries (12, 24 or 48V).

If yours uses more than one battery, it is usually wise to replace
ALL at the same time; a "weak" battery will alter the way the charge is
shared among the batteries, typically shortening life.

If you opt to replace batteries, be sure to salvage any wiring harness
that is present. For a single battery, sometimes there is just a "fancy
connector" that transitions from the battery to the UPS. Other times,
there are wires (possibly including fusible links) interconnecting
the batteries within the "battery pack" (the batteries are sometimes
fastened together -- tape? -- to form a single unit).

Almost all UPS batteries (at least SOHO units) have "spade"/faston
terminals. These come in two typical sizes -- 0.25 and 0.187 (IIRC).
Obviously, you don't want a battery that has a larger terminal than
the mating cable can accommodate (it won't fit on!). But, you also
don't want a battery with a smaller terminal (you'll end up with
a tenuous fit that could end up being a high resistance connection).

For battery "packs", you can also fabricate your own from discrete
batteries held together with 2" cellophane packing tape.

It is often tedious to extract the battery pack from many UPS's.
They are designed for a tight fit -- don't want the battery
flopping around in there as it represents a significant mass.

Often, failed batteries will "bloat" -- you will actually see
that they have EXPANDED/bulged during use. In this case, it
is often hard to extract the batteries ("tight fit"). Rather
than dismantling the UPS itself (which will leave you with
a bunch of DANGLING parts as they are "fitted" into the plastic
case; not held with fasteners!), try to loosen the appropriate
screws as if you were going to disassemble the case. This extra
"slop" usually makes it easier to remove the battery -- esp if
it has "bulged".

Of course, don't short the battery (new or used) as they are capable
of delivering a fair bit of current (e.g., hold your wedding band
across the battery terminals and feel it get HOT! : )

Dispose of defective batteries responsibly. They contain lead so
represent hazardous waste. There are usually places in town where
these can be recycled -- the lead is extracted, "cleaned up" and
then reused (to make NEW batteries).

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

Typically, you size the test load at 1/3 the nameplate rating of the
UPS. Too small and you aren't really checking to see that it can
handle a *reasonable* load. Too large and you'll probably get
failures from "old batteries".

Some UPS's will not turn on unless AC mains power is available.

Many (esp APC units) UPS's will do a battery test on startup
(and then periodically, thereafter). If the UPS complains
after/during this test, chances are your battery (or battery
connections) are faulty. (it's looking to see how much and how
quickly the battery voltage "sags" under that known test load)

Some UPS's will omit the test cycle if they detect a *missing*
battery pack -- but will perform the test if they detect a
present but "dead" battery pack! The former is useful: it
allows you to use the UPS as an "outlet strip/surge protector"
even if the backup function is not available (because the
battery is missing).

[I have a dozen UPS's here that primarily serve as "outlet
strips" -- I can turn off a computer and its monitor plus
any peripherals with that one button/switch -- instead of having
to turn off the individual items]

For UPS's that test batteries periodically, a failing battery can
screw you unexpectedly: the UPS goes to test the battery at some
"random" time by essentially switching to backup power. If the
battery is toast, your computer will now crash! (i.e., when the
battery is known to be dying/dead, just remove it until you
get a replacement)

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

From the upsc command on my system ...
battery.type: PbAc
battery.voltage: 27.2
battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0
device.mfr: American Power Conversion
device.model: Back-UPS XS 1300G

I have no idea what to look for, when it's time to replace the battery.
Not sure where I put the manual, and am having trouble finding one
online.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

On 8/21/2015 10:38 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:17:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
With the UPS NOT plugged into the wall

Plug in a load such as a small lamp into the UPS.

Press AND HOLD the on button for about 5 seconds

That should turn it on.

Mark

Unless you're doing business or other critical work, it's not
clear to me that you even need a UPS. I've never had one and
despite numerous power outages, never lost anything, had any
issue with the disk getting corrupted, etc. Typical apps like
word, excel, etc also do an autosave every 5 mins or so, and
that's saved and there too.


I've got them on my three desktop computers.

Surge protectors were not enough when power failed stopping computer in
its tracks and losing hard drive sectors. This was years ago and maybe
computers react better but why take chances. I buy cheap units as I
only want enough power to safely power down computers. In maybe 20
years, I've only had to replace one UPS.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 07:44:17
-0600, rbowman wrote:

On 08/21/2015 07:09 AM, micky wrote:
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

Sometimes the switchover or charging circuitry fails. The last time I
replaced my home UPS the battery was good but it wouldn't switch over.
We have a lot of UPS's at work and the failure rate is fairly high. That
goes for APC or no-name units.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

Plug a radio into one of the protect outlets. Pull the plug on the UPS.
Is the radio still functioning? The 60w bulb is also a good idea since
that will allow you to see how long the battery will maintain the
output. One failure mode I've seen several times is on switchover the
UPS will effectively short the output crashing the computer while one
just plugged into the wall survives the very brief flicker fine.

Hmmm. I've actually got a third one for my DVDR, and its battery is old
and I've seen the power dip and if it's recording, it stops recording
but stays on, and then starts recording again asap. I recorded 30
minutes of news and it ended up in 7 pieces!! OTOH, if it's not
recording, it turns off and stays off.

**How could I have 7 power failures in 30 minutes. Well, I've got a
"portable" air conditioner, and it's plugged into the same receptacle
that the DVDR is. And every time it goes on, I hear a short beep. I
thought it was the AC but finally realized it was the UPS. Still when
I wasn't using the AC, and storms caused the power outage, it got
through some that of those actual outages, not just dips, and lasting 2
or 3 seconds, without losing its list of programs to record.

But last night I had the feeling that if the UPS were not there, the
dips in voltage would not have caused the recording mode to turn off.

So I just got back from buying a new battery. for this little one, and
another for the one I paid $7 for and was marked Working. It was a few
dollars more than mailorder, but I wanted the small one today, and I was
able to compare the dimensions of the new one with the old one adn they
matched. Some of the ones on the web had one dimension larger and
anoher smaller. I guess the dimensions on the web were wrong, but I
didn't want to buy mail order and find out that it didnt fit.

As far as the control connection to the computer, good luck. Find the
appropriate software for the machine and your OS like PowerChute.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:14:44
-0400, Paul wrote:

micky wrote:
I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?



The XS900 is a "loser".

Put it back on the curb.

Check the reviews on Amazon. This is how
I judge them.

http://www.amazon.com/APC-900VA-Back...ustomerReviews

I didn't even think to do look at this, maybe because I own it already.

Wow. 2 stars out of 5, which I consider to be 1 star out of 4 since one
can't give something 0 stars.

I didnt' think APC would make anything that bad. Unless people have
unreasonable expectations because it's a famous brand. -- I haven't
read the reviews yet. Only 11 reviews.

That's the second lowest thing I've seen. The lowest was a battery
powered jumper box for cars, that Pepboys marked down from 50 to 30.
Since I'd been wanting one, I bought it and when I got home, I looked
it up like you did. I owned it but could return it. It was only 1.7
stars out of 5. But when I returned it, the clerk, and clerks often
don't give a darn, seemed surprised and told me they sell them and never
hear back, that is, people are satisfied. (Of course they are only used
when the car won't start, so maybe it's too late to return them then!)

I think Pep Boys marked them down because the rating was so low and they
couldnt' sell them at the regular price. It was part of a Grand
Reopening Sale (even though they were never closed) and they had other
things cheap but nothing I needed. Well they had the little red floor
jack 40 marked down to 20 or so, but I had already bought one and used
it for 5 days. Plus for pulling the broken fence post out of the
ground). Where was I?

An internal fan with no vent ?
I hope not.

That's what one of the reviews says. I'll take a look. I'd be glad to
put a hole in the case, but it sounds like it's too late for that. But
I''ll still do the check I told Art I would do.

Maybe the thing is
ferroresonant and the noise is the
transformer.

Well mine's not humming..... because it won't do anything yet!!

The APC site claims to be "down for maintenance" at the
moment, or I'd have a look at the user manual. It could

Do I detect a note of suspicion, the quotes and all? ;-)

Anyhow I got the manual earlier today (been up since 5) and it's only
two pages long. I think it's funny that in an age where printers etc.
come with 200, 300 page manuals, they have a 2 page manual.

A longer one makes people think they're getting more for their money.
Especially when they could go on with situations like the one I asked
about, but they don't. .

be an AVR unit for example (automatic voltage regulator)
and "line interactive". That means, it is buggering
with the power at all times, one way or another.

*******

And yes, replacing batteries makes perfect sense, on the

That's what I thought, but I'm susceptible to suggestion -- in many
areas and I've known this for a long time -- so when two of them
suggested what they did, I had doubts.

mid-range ones. I paid $250 for my UPS when new, the
battery lasted *ten years*, and a new battery cost $60.

Much better than spending 250, plus it's easier to go buy a battery than
to have to shop for another UPS, evaluate features and price and all
that.

The price on batteries has come down slightly over
the years, presumably since all the batteries are made
in China. And if you take the rate of inflation into
account, the price has come down.

One secret to battery life, you can do nothing about.
But you can control the "level of discharge". I'm always
careful, if I'm in the room, to shut down the computer
loads then switch off the ATX supply, to spare the battery
when the lights go out. The shallower the discharge, the
longer they last. Don't rely on the low voltage cutoff on
the UPS itself, to "protect" the battery. The battery life
can last longer, if you take care of it.

I don't consider the UPS to be an "alternate power source",
it's merely a way to ride out one-second outages, when the

Yes. And I don't know why people need a big one. I almost never have
more than one file that hasn't been saved, and that's the file I'm
typing in at the moment. Before I leave this window, I"ll save it.
So it takes 10 seconds to save the file, 30 seconds maybe to wait for
the power to come on if it usually does, and a couple minutes to
hibernate.

utility switches over stuff. I have one computer cabled to
the automatic shutdown feature, and Windows happens to have
the right driver for that APC unit, already in Windows. For
the second computer connected to it, I shut down that
computer manually.

*******

The low end of the UPS market, the failure rate out of the
box is 10%. And the Amazon description for the XS900,
shows it just doesn't last with time.

There are different kinds of UPS architectures.
There are SPS (standby power supply). There
are AVR (automatic voltage regulation). There
are more than five different types. The SPS remains
cool to the touch, because the inverter doesn't
run when AC power is available. The battery charges
to a constant voltage (and you can stick your meter
on the battery terminals after a 24 hour charge
period and verify the terminal voltage is
correct). That's one check I could do after installing
the new battery.

The UPS has the ability to do a load test. It places
a known load on the battery for a few seconds, and checks
the resulting terminal voltage. The output impedance of
the battery is considered a health indicator. A high
impedance battery, drops to a low voltage when loaded.
A UPS which "beeps" once every 24 hours, has just done
the short load test, and found the terminal voltage
to be wanting.

And a 60W light bulb makes a fine load. It is resistive.
The load is relatively well controlled (draws 120W when
cold, has a "surge" due to the cold resistance), but
eventually settles down to 60W. If the output voltage
of the UPS is not correct (makes 200V rather than 113V),
then the color of the filament when lit gives a quick
indication of whether the output voltage is correct or
not. I can easily spot when my power here drops to 100V
at the mast, just by the color of the remaining incandescent
bulbs I use. LED bulbs on the other hand, are regulated,
and have no characteristic useful for analyzing what
the utility is doing to you.

What do they do when the voltage goes down? Just go dark like digital
TV with a weak signal?

*******

For your next curbside UPS, check the reviews and
see if the unit stinks or not. If a lot of users
complain of weird symptoms within the first year
or two, chances are fixing one up is not a wise
use of time or money.

Have fun,
Paul

On 8/21/2015 12:53 PM, micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 07:44:17
-0600, rbowman wrote:

On 08/21/2015 07:09 AM, micky wrote:
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

Sometimes the switchover or charging circuitry fails. The last time I
replaced my home UPS the battery was good but it wouldn't switch over.
We have a lot of UPS's at work and the failure rate is fairly high. That
goes for APC or no-name units.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

Plug a radio into one of the protect outlets. Pull the plug on the UPS.
Is the radio still functioning? The 60w bulb is also a good idea since
that will allow you to see how long the battery will maintain the
output. One failure mode I've seen several times is on switchover the
UPS will effectively short the output crashing the computer while one
just plugged into the wall survives the very brief flicker fine.

Hmmm. I've actually got a third one for my DVDR, and its battery is old
and I've seen the power dip and if it's recording, it stops recording
but stays on, and then starts recording again asap. I recorded 30
minutes of news and it ended up in 7 pieces!! OTOH, if it's not
recording, it turns off and stays off.

**How could I have 7 power failures in 30 minutes. Well, I've got a
"portable" air conditioner, and it's plugged into the same receptacle
that the DVDR is. And every time it goes on, I hear a short beep. I
thought it was the AC but finally realized it was the UPS. Still when
I wasn't using the AC, and storms caused the power outage, it got
through some that of those actual outages, not just dips, and lasting 2
or 3 seconds, without losing its list of programs to record.

But last night I had the feeling that if the UPS were not there, the
dips in voltage would not have caused the recording mode to turn off.

Many UPS's have a "sensitivity" setting. This allows them to
react faster -- or slower -- to line disturbances.

So I just got back from buying a new battery. for this little one, and
another for the one I paid $7 for and was marked Working. It was a few
dollars more than mailorder, but I wanted the small one today, and I was
able to compare the dimensions of the new one with the old one adn they
matched. Some of the ones on the web had one dimension larger and
anoher smaller. I guess the dimensions on the web were wrong, but I
didn't want to buy mail order and find out that it didnt fit.

On 8/21/2015 12:53 PM, micky wrote:

I don't consider the UPS to be an "alternate power source",
it's merely a way to ride out one-second outages, when the

Yes. And I don't know why people need a big one. I almost never have
more than one file that hasn't been saved, and that's the file I'm
typing in at the moment. Before I leave this window, I"ll save it.
So it takes 10 seconds to save the file, 30 seconds maybe to wait for
the power to come on if it usually does, and a couple minutes to
hibernate.

There are two issues involved:
- how long do you want to support your load
- what's the magnitude of the *peak* load.

E.g., a 500VA UPS isn't going to power a 400W load (W != VA);
REGARDLESS of how large the battery in that 500VA UPS happens
to be!

I use 1500VA UPS's, here -- though I doubt any of them see more than
a 500W load.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:14:44
-0400, Paul wrote:


Check the reviews on Amazon. This is how
I judge them.

http://www.amazon.com/APC-900VA-Back...ustomerReviews

BTW, I too t hink overall the reviews are worth reading and valuable but

a) it's well known t hat people who are dissatisfied are a lot more
likely to complain than those who are satisfied are to say so.

b) in this case one guy who gave it one star said "Battery replacement
on this is far too complicated for a consumer product". But it's
actually as simple as can be. Doesn't even require a screwdriver. Just
press on the plastic where the tabs are and the big door slides open,
pour out the battery and disconnect the two wires (which have female
spade connectors, on miine. The webpage shows a battery with one 3-wire
connector, maybe even easier.)

c) Another guy who gave it five stars said "Thing has worked fabulously
for 3 years and is still working great. Every now and again, I've
removed the battery, popped off the rubber stoppers, filled with
distilled water, dried, capped off the holes with rubber stoppers,
charged each battery using a car battery charger at 3 amps, reinstalled.
These batteries just don't quit running if you maintain them properly.
To bad APC doesn't put this in the manual." The owner of Battery
Warehouse reminded me that there is no water inside, but some kind of
jelly.. What a blowhard the reviewer is.

d) one study somewhere said that there are people who complain on
online reviews when they've never even bought or used the item. It said
their reviews tended to ramble about the general topic wihtout going
into specifics about the item. Not surprising. That's why Amazon
verifies if you've bought the product from them and labels those reviews
that way.

In message , David W. Hodgins
writes:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

From the upsc command on my system ...
battery.type: PbAc

I presume that means lead-acid. (Most of this sort of thing use "SLA" -
sealed lead-acid - which have a gel inside rather than liquid, which
means the batteries can be used any way up.)

battery.voltage: 27.2
battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0

(Sounds healthy!) I'd guess two 12-volt ones.

device.mfr: American Power Conversion
device.model: Back-UPS XS 1300G

I have no idea what to look for, when it's time to replace the battery.
Not sure where I put the manual, and am having trouble finding one
online.

Can you figure out how to open it? If so, have a look: the batteries are
usually pretty obvious. They tend to be big grey (or occasionally black)
blocks, usually with spade terminals; if you're lucky, they'll have a
label on (or text moulded into the plastic), giving voltage and amp-hour
rating; maybe also model number.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"On the whole, I'm in favour of the state getting out of people's lives, but I
would not have a problem with voting being made compulsory. But if you did
that, you'd have to have a box for 'None of the above'."
Jeremy Paxman, quoted in RT 2015/5/2-8

On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 9:15:08 AM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 8/21/2015 8:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.


The UPS may be like some of the battery powered drills. You can buy a new
drill with two batteries for what just one or two of the batteries cost..

I have not looked at the cost to make the batteries, but there must be a big
mark up on them when they sell for over $ 50 each,but you can get two, a
charger and new drill for the price of less than two seperate batteries..

Where I worked we had a lot of small motors (around 1/2 HP) that had a gear
box on them. We could get the motor and gear box cheaper than just the
motor.





Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.

I've used the AGM SLA batteries and get a lot longer life out of them. Several years ago I bought a case of them from the from the electronics supply house and paid $16 ea and I would also buy them by the case for $10 ea from Crown Battery until the company here stopped carrying them. My friend Stinky works for a VoIP service company that has a data center where there are a lot of UPS units and they change batteries in the backup power supplies all the time. They have a commercial account with Batteries + and pay $10 ea for the 7.5-8 amp AGM SLA batteries. When I get home, I have more than 20 300-1,000 watt UPS units and some of them need new batteries. A new 1kw unit can sell for $900 and with $20 in new batteries and older unit works like new. I imagine I can sell refurbished UPS units on Craigslist or eBay for at least a few dollars. ^_^

Oh yea, the last load of a dozen bad batteries I took to the recycler paid me $60. It made it worth the trip across town. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle UPS Monster

On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 2:08:35 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 8/21/2015 10:38 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:17:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
With the UPS NOT plugged into the wall

Plug in a load such as a small lamp into the UPS.

Press AND HOLD the on button for about 5 seconds

That should turn it on.

Mark

Unless you're doing business or other critical work, it's not
clear to me that you even need a UPS. I've never had one and
despite numerous power outages, never lost anything, had any
issue with the disk getting corrupted, etc. Typical apps like
word, excel, etc also do an autosave every 5 mins or so, and
that's saved and there too.


I've got them on my three desktop computers.

Surge protectors were not enough when power failed stopping computer in
its tracks and losing hard drive sectors. This was years ago and maybe
computers react better but why take chances. I buy cheap units as I
only want enough power to safely power down computers. In maybe 20
years, I've only had to replace one UPS.

Back home I have at least 4 desktop computers plugged into UPS units at one time and in my computer cave, I have a 1kw rack mount unit sitting on edge behind my 23" monitor and a pair of 500w units running the monitors, LED lights and networking equipment. When the power goes out, the only way I know is when the UPS units click, hum and beep. Back in January, I was home one night when the power went off and one 500w APC backup ran the LED desk lamps for 6.5 hours without a blink. I want to install new batteries in some of my collection of salvaged UPS units and plug LED lighting into them all around the house so there would be no danger of me tripping over something when the power goes out at night. I think everyone should buy some inexpensive backup units and plug in lamps around the house for those times when to power fails and people are stumbling around looking for flashlights and candles. LED lighting is most definitely safer than candles during a power outage. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle LED Monster

On 8/21/2015 1:00 PM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

From the upsc command on my system ...
battery.type: PbAc
battery.voltage: 27.2
battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0
device.mfr: American Power Conversion
device.model: Back-UPS XS 1300G

The larger capacity APC units (you have one) use TWO 12v batteries in
series to obtain the 24V nominal.

Do a Google Search for APC Back-UPS XS 1300G manual (the G is for
"Green", I believe) and you should find the manual you're looking for.
I was just gifted yet another APC unit and didn't have the manual (it
was an older model) and locating them on the APC site was difficult.
Nothing would be returned with their search engine.

When I did the Google search I found one... Guess where? On the APC
site. Go figure.

Also, look on the outside of your unit for a small (maybe 1"x3/8") white
bar code label it will have something like BX1300 or XB1300 on it. That
number means more than the model number emblazoned on the case of the UPS.

some yeas agoi putmy dish network receiver and tv on my UPS.

one night we had a power failure. my wife at the time totally freaked out, the tv is on and nothing else is..

she was very funny, total freak

i quickly explained what was going on

On 8/21/2015 1:00 PM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:



I have no idea what to look for, when it's time to replace the battery.
Not sure where I put the manual, and am having trouble finding one
online.

Regards, Dave Hodgins


Here, Dave, this should be the manual you need:

http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/EALN-7SEGRP/EALN-7SEGRP_R7_EN.pdf

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
some yeas agoi putmy dish network receiver and tv on my UPS.

one night we had a power failure. my wife at the time totally freaked out,
the tv is on and nothing else is..

she was very funny, total freak

i quickly explained what was going on

why? you should have acted as dumbfounded as she was.

On 8/21/2015 10:00 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:


Back home I have at least 4 desktop computers plugged into UPS units at one time and in my computer cave, I have a 1kw rack mount unit sitting on edge behind my 23" monitor and a pair of 500w units running the monitors, LED lights and networking equipment. When the power goes out, the only way I know is when the UPS units click, hum and beep. Back in January, I was home one night when the power went off and one 500w APC backup ran the LED desk lamps for 6.5 hours without a blink. I want to install new batteries in some of my collection of salvaged UPS units and plug LED lighting into them all around the house so there would be no danger of me tripping over something when the power goes out at night. I think everyone should buy some inexpensive backup units and plug in lamps around the house for those times when to power fails and people are stumbling around looking for flashlights and candles. LED lighting is most definitely safer than candles during a power outage. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle LED Monster


For about $10 you can get LED nightlights that come on bright and double
as a flashlight during a power failure. I also have two battery LED
lanterns that are nice and bright and will last 36 hours on a set of
batteries.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 13:00:07 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 8/21/2015 12:53 PM, micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 07:44:17
-0600, rbowman wrote:

On 08/21/2015 07:09 AM, micky wrote:
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

Sometimes the switchover or charging circuitry fails. The last time I
replaced my home UPS the battery was good but it wouldn't switch over.
We have a lot of UPS's at work and the failure rate is fairly high. That
goes for APC or no-name units.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

Plug a radio into one of the protect outlets. Pull the plug on the UPS.
Is the radio still functioning? The 60w bulb is also a good idea since
that will allow you to see how long the battery will maintain the
output. One failure mode I've seen several times is on switchover the
UPS will effectively short the output crashing the computer while one
just plugged into the wall survives the very brief flicker fine.

Hmmm. I've actually got a third one for my DVDR, and its battery is old
and I've seen the power dip and if it's recording, it stops recording
but stays on, and then starts recording again asap. I recorded 30
minutes of news and it ended up in 7 pieces!! OTOH, if it's not
recording, it turns off and stays off.

**How could I have 7 power failures in 30 minutes. Well, I've got a
"portable" air conditioner, and it's plugged into the same receptacle
that the DVDR is. And every time it goes on, I hear a short beep. I
thought it was the AC but finally realized it was the UPS. Still when
I wasn't using the AC, and storms caused the power outage, it got
through some that of those actual outages, not just dips, and lasting 2
or 3 seconds, without losing its list of programs to record.

But last night I had the feeling that if the UPS were not there, the
dips in voltage would not have caused the recording mode to turn off.

Many UPS's have a "sensitivity" setting. This allows them to
react faster -- or slower -- to line disturbances.

Thanks.

For the record, it was a bad idea to trim off the other newsgroups. I
started this thread in XP and included this group because I thought
you'd be interested. It's only by chance I noticed the thread is longer
here, and if it hadn't been a lot longer, I would have missed all the
replies that followed a post that had ng snipped.

So I just got back from buying a new battery. for this little one, and
another for the one I paid $7 for and was marked Working. It was a few
dollars more than mailorder, but I wanted the small one today, and I was
able to compare the dimensions of the new one with the old one adn they
matched. Some of the ones on the web had one dimension larger and
anoher smaller. I guess the dimensions on the web were wrong, but I
didn't want to buy mail order and find out that it didnt fit.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:43:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 8/21/2015 10:15 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:


Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.


I just replaced the batteries in one unit. If you buy the genuine
battery from APC is comes with the wiring harness attached and you pull
out the two batteries as a unit and slide the new one in. Cost is $110.

I found a place that sells replacements. I had to take the harness off
(four spade connections) and put it on the new batteries. I also taped
the two together to be a solid unit too. Cost was $37. plus half a
penny for tape and five minutes to do the connections.

This is where I bought, but there are many other sources.
www.batterysharks.com/

Thanks Ed. I took a look, and bookmarked them, but

a) the guy at the store here was really nice to me a couple years ago.
When I went to pay him I saw I had lost my wallet. Went back to where I
had lunch, and paid for it, and owner told me they didn't have it.

Went back to battery store and he gave me one of the two I wanted on
credit, never met him before. I only needed one at the moment.

Got money at the bank the next day and went back and paid him. Also
stopped at the restaurant again and found out owner-wife had the wallet
the previous day and went home without telling owner-husband. So I got
my wallet back with everything in it. I'd dropped it on the floor
under the table where I ate.

b) it wasn't that much more money

c) he let me try the battery in the UPS before I bought it. . I didn't
know until this morning that even the one I paid $7 for and which said
Working on it didn't do anything when plugged it, even with an
all-but-dead battery . It doesn't have to have a load but it does have
to have a decent battery, or even the Online light doesn't go on. I
think the design stinks.

d) I wanted to get one of the batteries right away.

On 8/22/2015 12:25 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 13:00:07 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

Many UPS's have a "sensitivity" setting. This allows them to
react faster -- or slower -- to line disturbances.

Thanks.

For the record, it was a bad idea to trim off the other newsgroups. I
started this thread in XP and included this group because I thought
you'd be interested. It's only by chance I noticed the thread is longer
here, and if it hadn't been a lot longer, I would have missed all the
replies that followed a post that had ng snipped.

I choose the newsgroups that I want my posts to appear in.
If it ends up not being seen because you choose to read ONE of the
multiple groups to which you've cross-posted, so be it. *I'm*
not missing out on anything! :

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 21:31:45 -0500, Unquestionably
Confused wrote:

On 8/21/2015 1:00 PM, David W. Hodgins wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

From the upsc command on my system ...
battery.type: PbAc
battery.voltage: 27.2
battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0
device.mfr: American Power Conversion
device.model: Back-UPS XS 1300G

The larger capacity APC units (you have one) use TWO 12v batteries in
series to obtain the 24V nominal.

Do a Google Search for APC Back-UPS XS 1300G manual (the G is for
"Green", I believe) and you should find the manual you're looking for.

The manual, absolutely, but for replacement batteries, this won't work
and the manual won't either. They give the batteries silly names
like RBC2, RBC32, Replacement Battery Cartridge #32

For the battery give google the ups model number and use the words
replacement battery. I didn't think of that. Google suggested
it.

I was just gifted yet another APC unit and didn't have the manual (it
was an older model) and locating them on the APC site was difficult.
Nothing would be returned with their search engine.

When I did the Google search I found one... Guess where? On the APC
site. Go figure.

Hmmm. By accident I went straight to google. I guess that saved me
some time.

Also, look on the outside of your unit for a small (maybe 1"x3/8") white
bar code label it will have something like BX1300 or XB1300 on it. That
number means more than the model number emblazoned on the case of the UPS.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 07:17:36 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With the UPS NOT plugged into the wall

Plug in a load such as a small lamp into the UPS.

Press AND HOLD the on button for about 5 seconds

That should turn it on.

Mark

Only if the battery is good. And of the 3 models I have, all APC,
(300, Pro 650, XS 900) only one mentions this in the instructions.


For the record, it was IMO a bad idea to trim off the other newsgroups.
I started this thread in XP and alt.comp.hardware and included this
group because I thought you'd be interested. It's only by chance I
noticed the thread is longer here, and if it hadn't been a lot longer, I
would have missed all the replies that followed a post that had ng
snipped.

Is this another of the bad features of posting from google? You can
get your own newsreader and news service and it's a lot better.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:08:28 -0400, Frank "frank
wrote:


I've got them on my three desktop computers.

Surge protectors were not enough when power failed stopping computer in
its tracks and losing hard drive sectors. This was years ago and maybe
computers react better but why take chances. I buy cheap units as I
only want enough power to safely power down computers. In maybe 20
years, I've only had to replace one UPS.

My first UPS was for some reaons 70 or 80% off at a computer store. They
had 3.

Not APC and it had it's on/off switch in a cupola at the top, so it was
a lot easier to reach when the UPS was on the floor.

When I looked inside, there were plastic ribs holding the battery in
place so I broke out the ribs and put in a bigger battery. I figured
itwould only recharge as fast as it could, and I never drained the
battery anyhow, That one failed, but I still don't think the bigger
battery caused the failure. ????

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:39:20 -0400, micky
wrote:

On 8/21/2015 9:09 AM, micky wrote:
I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?


Apparently, the batteries are ok in the one unit. Try putting the
'good' batteries into the other unit so see if it works, before ordering
new ones. As others have said, you can get good batteries for cheap on
the internet. I've replace mine at least 3 or 4 times over the last 15
or so years and it's still going. When I was 1st gifted with this old
AT&T UPS, it wouldn't even pass line current to the output. I borrowed
a bunch of 6 volt batteries and connected 4 in series ... this UPS
actually uses 24 volts instead of the usual 12 volts. Once the new
batteries were connected, it started passing line voltage through.
Apparently, on this unit, when the batteries are dead, it tells you by
not working at all.

What a system!

The other answers were valuable and I'm going to reply to them later,
but this is the answer I was looking for.

Somehow I was suspicious that this could happen, so I'll see if it's
happening to me.

Yes. First, even the one that was marked Working was like yours. It
did nothing when plugged in, but I brought it to the store and he let me
try the new battery in it. I had no load and the Online light was off
even after I plugged it in, but after I pushed the button, that light
flashed green, in a few seconds the yellow self-test light went on, and
when that went off, the first light was steady green.

Then I took the two batteries I bought and tested the one at home that
Paul pointed out had terrible Amazon rattngs. It was dead too, even
when plugged in with the old batteries ---- What a crummy design ---
but with new ones -- they didnt fit in the case but the wires were long
enough -- it acted just like in the previous paragraph. I
couldn't hear it hum but my fingers could feel it, including for a
minute or two after I turned it off, even though it had only been on for
couple minutes. So it takes that long to cool off when it's barely
gotten hot I forgot to test it with the lamp, darn, but it probably
works. Well there's that transfer issue. It uses a very common size
battery, two NP7-12's, which will fit my home burglar alarm too.

Air can get in through any of the 8 3-prong holes for electric plugs
that are not being used. Or they can go out that way, but that puts all
the air near the back of the box. I suppose I should drill a couple
holes in the case, maybe 1/2? inch on each side. One inch?

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 22 Aug 2015 00:45:07 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 8/22/2015 12:25 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 13:00:07 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

Many UPS's have a "sensitivity" setting. This allows them to
react faster -- or slower -- to line disturbances.

Thanks.

For the record, it was a bad idea to trim off the other newsgroups. I
started this thread in XP and included this group because I thought
you'd be interested. It's only by chance I noticed the thread is longer
here, and if it hadn't been a lot longer, I would have missed all the
replies that followed a post that had ng snipped.

I choose the newsgroups that I want my posts to appear in.
If it ends up not being seen because you choose to read ONE of the
multiple groups to which you've cross-posted, so be it. *I'm*
not missing out on anything! :

Well la-di-da. FTR, alt.home.repair was a group I cross posted to. XP
was the group I posted to. I showed concern for you but you won't
show the same for me.

On 8/22/2015 12:58 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:08:28 -0400, Frank "frank
wrote:


I've got them on my three desktop computers.

I have 12 of them (1500VA units) servicing various bits of kit, here.
At the very least, they are "outlet multipliers"; consider that you
typically need several outlets for a "workstation" (computer,
monitor, printer, desk lamp, charging stand for mouse, yada yada...)

Surge protectors were not enough when power failed stopping computer in
its tracks and losing hard drive sectors. This was years ago and maybe
computers react better but why take chances. I buy cheap units as I
only want enough power to safely power down computers.

You should be able to find *discarded* UPS's within walking distance,
if you put your mind to it! : They are frequently discarded by
companies and individuals -- esp when their batteries need replacing
("manufacturer prices" being somewhat outrageous; my last *pair* of
7.2AHr batteries set me back $50, total -- I think manufacturer
wants double that)

In maybe 20 years, I've only had to replace one UPS.

My first UPS was for some reaons 70 or 80% off at a computer store. They
had 3.

Not APC and it had it's on/off switch in a cupola at the top, so it was
a lot easier to reach when the UPS was on the floor.

When I looked inside, there were plastic ribs holding the battery in
place so I broke out the ribs and put in a bigger battery. I figured
itwould only recharge as fast as it could, and I never drained the
battery anyhow, That one failed, but I still don't think the bigger
battery caused the failure. ????

You typically design a charger to charge at the battery's C/20 rate.
Bigger battery tends to have higher charge rate. Or, said another
way, a charger expecting a smaller battery will take longer to charge
a larger battery. It is conceivable that the charger could overheat
if it was underdesigned (i.e., expecting a shorter duty cycle) but
probably not a real concern.

Said still another way, installing a *smaller* battery can lead to woes.

[This assumes the batteries have the same chemistry and that the charger
isn't a total crap-job]

There is a fair bit of variation between APC models. But, *most*
APC models seem to "cook" batteries. Conspiracy theorists may
assume it is to boost battery sales. Or, you can choose to think
their designers are incompetent. Or, you can choose to think they
are opting to bring the battery back to it's "recharged" state
as quickly as possible (to protect against the *next* outage).

Some models allow you to adjust the float voltage of the battery.
Others require hardware modifications if you want to prolong battery
life.

Also, the depth of discharge that the battery experiences affects
its lifespan. (Keep in mind that many UPS's -- esp APC -- run a
short test cycle on the battery daily. AFAICT, there isn't an
*easy* way to defeat this test)