My well pump at the pressure tank is 45 psi. From one of my exterior
facets I want to run a line to my garden located 300 feet away, to feed a
trickle irrigation system consisting of 20 - 120' trickle tube lines
which are each run off of a 1-1/2" header pipe. Each 120' line has its
own turn off valve so that as many lines as need to be, can either be
turned off or turned on at the same time. Each of the 120' lines
water requirements is about .6 gallons per min. Currently I am trying to
feed the entire system with 300 ' of garden hoses all of which are 1/2" .
It seems to me like there is an awfully lot of drop in pressure at the
outlets individual line outlets, and currently I am only able to feed 1 or
2 of the 120' lines at a time. I would like to have enough water and
pressure to feed more of the lines at a time if possible
Questions:
1. will this work this way.
2. Would it be better to feed the 1-1/2' header tube located 300 ' away
with a larger diameter piping?
3. Would it be advisable to add a booster pump to the line and / or if so
what kind and how big?

Thank you in advance for your valued advise.

Denny

--

"Denny of PA" wrote in
message roups.com...
My well pump at the pressure tank is 45 psi. From one of my exterior
facets I want to run a line to my garden located 300 feet away, to feed a
trickle irrigation system consisting of 20 - 120' trickle tube lines
which are each run off of a 1-1/2" header pipe. Each 120' line has its
own turn off valve so that as many lines as need to be, can either be
turned off or turned on at the same time. Each of the 120' lines
water requirements is about .6 gallons per min. Currently I am trying to
feed the entire system with 300 ' of garden hoses all of which are 1/2" .
It seems to me like there is an awfully lot of drop in pressure at the
outlets individual line outlets, and currently I am only able to feed 1 or
2 of the 120' lines at a time. I would like to have enough water and
pressure to feed more of the lines at a time if possible
Questions: 1. will this work this way. 2. Would it be better to feed
the 1-1/2' header tube located 300 ' away
with a larger diameter piping? 3. Would it be advisable to add a booster
pump to the line and / or if so
what kind and how big?


Go to a larger pipe. Make sure all the pipeing is larger, including the
pipe from the well tank to the hose.
Each time you double the diameter of the pipe you get about 4 times the
volume, or flow.

On 5/10/15 10:44 PM, Denny of PA wrote:
My well pump at the pressure tank is 45 psi. From one of my exterior
facets I want to run a line to my garden located 300 feet away, to feed a
trickle irrigation system consisting of 20 - 120' trickle tube lines
which are each run off of a 1-1/2" header pipe. Each 120' line has its
own turn off valve so that as many lines as need to be, can either be
turned off or turned on at the same time. Each of the 120' lines
water requirements is about .6 gallons per min. Currently I am trying to
feed the entire system with 300 ' of garden hoses all of which are 1/2"
. It seems to me like there is an awfully lot of drop in pressure at the
outlets individual line outlets, and currently I am only able to feed 1 or
2 of the 120' lines at a time. I would like to have enough water and
pressure to feed more of the lines at a time if possible
Questions: 1. will this work this way. 2. Would it be better to
feed the 1-1/2' header tube located 300 ' away
with a larger diameter piping? 3. Would it be advisable to add a
booster pump to the line and / or if so
what kind and how big?
Thank you in advance for your valued advise.
Denny

If the 300' hose is level and the garden end is open, 45 psi would give
you 2 gallons per minute. Your flow would be less because the trickle
tubes will need some of that 45 psi.

If you used 3/4" hose and the end were open, you could get 6 gallons per
minute. As the hose won't be open, you'll get less, but you should be
able to feed more tubes than you can now.

Denny of PA wrote:
My well pump at the pressure tank is 45 psi. From one of my exterior
facets I want to run a line to my garden located 300 feet away, to feed a
trickle irrigation system consisting of 20 - 120' trickle tube lines
which are each run off of a 1-1/2" header pipe. Each 120' line has its
own turn off valve so that as many lines as need to be, can either be
turned off or turned on at the same time. Each of the 120' lines
water requirements is about .6 gallons per min. Currently I am trying to
feed the entire system with 300 ' of garden hoses all of which are 1/2"
. It seems to me like there is an awfully lot of drop in pressure at the
outlets individual line outlets, and currently I am only able to feed 1 or
2 of the 120' lines at a time. I would like to have enough water and
pressure to feed more of the lines at a time if possible
Questions: 1. will this work this way. 2. Would it be better to
feed the 1-1/2' header tube located 300 ' away
with a larger diameter piping? 3. Would it be advisable to add a
booster pump to the line and / or if so
what kind and how big?
Thank you in advance for your valued advise.
Denny

There's a pipe sizing chart here if it helps:
http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/i...-for-laterals/
or http://tinyurl.com/nzybnjf
It's probably not an issue but creating more pressure costs money
for the extra energy required. Irrigation systems for farm use ran
at 70 psi or so in the old days. Modern ones run in the area of 35 psi.
That supposedly saves about 30% in pumping costs. These things
typically run at 800 gpm or so.

Dean Hoffman wrote:
Denny of PA wrote:
My well pump at the pressure tank is 45 psi. From one of my exterior
facets I want to run a line to my garden located 300 feet away, to feed a
trickle irrigation system consisting of 20 - 120' trickle tube lines
which are each run off of a 1-1/2" header pipe. Each 120' line has its
own turn off valve so that as many lines as need to be, can either be
turned off or turned on at the same time. Each of the 120' lines
water requirements is about .6 gallons per min. Currently I am trying to
feed the entire system with 300 ' of garden hoses all of which are 1/2"
. It seems to me like there is an awfully lot of drop in pressure at the
outlets individual line outlets, and currently I am only able to feed
1 or
2 of the 120' lines at a time. I would like to have enough water and
pressure to feed more of the lines at a time if possible
Questions: 1. will this work this way. 2. Would it be better to
feed the 1-1/2' header tube located 300 ' away
with a larger diameter piping? 3. Would it be advisable to add a
booster pump to the line and / or if so
what kind and how big?
Thank you in advance for your valued advise.
Denny

There's a pipe sizing chart here if it helps:
http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/i...-for-laterals/
or http://tinyurl.com/nzybnjf
It's probably not an issue but creating more pressure costs money
for the extra energy required. Irrigation systems for farm use ran
at 70 psi or so in the old days. Modern ones run in the area of 35 psi.
That supposedly saves about 30% in pumping costs. These things
typically run at 800 gpm or so.

Hope well has good water flow.

On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 11:15:38 AM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
Dean Hoffman wrote:
Denny of PA wrote:
My well pump at the pressure tank is 45 psi. From one of my exterior
facets I want to run a line to my garden located 300 feet away, to feed a
trickle irrigation system consisting of 20 - 120' trickle tube lines
which are each run off of a 1-1/2" header pipe. Each 120' line has its
own turn off valve so that as many lines as need to be, can either be
turned off or turned on at the same time. Each of the 120' lines
water requirements is about .6 gallons per min. Currently I am trying to
feed the entire system with 300 ' of garden hoses all of which are 1/2"
. It seems to me like there is an awfully lot of drop in pressure at the
outlets individual line outlets, and currently I am only able to feed
1 or
2 of the 120' lines at a time. I would like to have enough water and
pressure to feed more of the lines at a time if possible
Questions: 1. will this work this way. 2. Would it be better to
feed the 1-1/2' header tube located 300 ' away
with a larger diameter piping? 3. Would it be advisable to add a
booster pump to the line and / or if so
what kind and how big?
Thank you in advance for your valued advise.
Denny

There's a pipe sizing chart here if it helps:
http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/i...-for-laterals/
or http://tinyurl.com/nzybnjf
It's probably not an issue but creating more pressure costs money
for the extra energy required. Irrigation systems for farm use ran
at 70 psi or so in the old days. Modern ones run in the area of 35 psi.
That supposedly saves about 30% in pumping costs. These things
typically run at 800 gpm or so.

Hope well has good water flow.

I was thinking that too. He needs 12GPM, which isn't unusual, but
there are plenty of wells yielding less than that. It's worth
considering before scoping out the solution. He could also raise
the pressure up from 45 a bit too.

On Mon, 11 May 2015 02:44:01 +0000, Denny of PA
wrote in
s.com

1. will this work this way.

Yes

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 11:15:38 AM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
Dean Hoffman wrote:
Denny of PA wrote:
turned off or turned on at the same time. Each of the 120' lines
water requirements is about .6 gallons per min. Currently I am trying
to
feed the entire system with 300 ' of garden hoses all of which are
1/2"
. It seems to me like there is an awfully lot of drop in pressure at
the
outlets individual line outlets, and currently I am only able to feed


I was thinking that too. He needs 12GPM, which isn't unusual, but
there are plenty of wells yielding less than that. It's worth
considering before scoping out the solution. He could also raise
the pressure up from 45 a bit too.

I thought it was six GPM, but it looks like it is Point Six (6/10) GPM.

That would be around 1.8 GPM for the 3 lines. Big difference. That is why
I would think he needs a larger line than the 1/2 inch he has, especially
for over 300 feet.

On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 1:10:09 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 11:15:38 AM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
Dean Hoffman wrote:
Denny of PA wrote:
turned off or turned on at the same time. Each of the 120' lines
water requirements is about .6 gallons per min. Currently I am trying
to
feed the entire system with 300 ' of garden hoses all of which are
1/2"
. It seems to me like there is an awfully lot of drop in pressure at
the
outlets individual line outlets, and currently I am only able to feed


I was thinking that too. He needs 12GPM, which isn't unusual, but
there are plenty of wells yielding less than that. It's worth
considering before scoping out the solution. He could also raise
the pressure up from 45 a bit too.

I thought it was six GPM, but it looks like it is Point Six (6/10) GPM.

That would be around 1.8 GPM for the 3 lines. Big difference. That is why
I would think he needs a larger line than the 1/2 inch he has, especially
for over 300 feet.

The way I read it, he has 20 drip lines each using .6 GPM. That's 12 GPM.
He could also put in a valve, either mechanical or automatic that would
only run some subset of those at a time.

On 05/10/2015 9:44 PM, Denny of PA wrote:
My well pump at the pressure tank is 45 psi. From one of my exterior
facets I want to run a line to my garden located 300 feet away, to feed a
trickle irrigation system consisting of 20 - 120' trickle tube lines
which are each run off of a 1-1/2" header pipe. Each 120' line has its
own turn off valve so that as many lines as need to be, can either be
turned off or turned on at the same time. Each of the 120' lines
water requirements is about .6 gallons per min. Currently I am trying to
feed the entire system with 300 ' of garden hoses all of which are 1/2".
It seems to me like there is an awfully lot of drop in pressure at the
outlets individual line outlets, and currently I am only able to feed 1 or
2 of the 120' lines at a time. I would like to have enough water and
pressure to feed more of the lines at a time if possible
Questions: 1. will this work this way. 2. Would it be better to feed the
1-1/2' header tube located 300 ' away
with a larger diameter piping? 3. Would it be advisable to add a booster
pump to the line and / or if so
what kind and how big?

Simply going from 1/2 to 5/8" hose provides a 50% area
increase/reduction in dP; 3/4" would be 36/16-- 2X ((6/8)/(4/8)^2)

That should help quite a lot. Most drip systems are intended to run at
10-15 psi; check your emitter supplier's datasheets for that so if you
run more pressure you'll just have to have a reducer anyway.

As others have noted, make sure you've got the well capacity overall for
12 gpm minimum.

--

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
I thought it was six GPM, but it looks like it is Point Six (6/10) GPM.

That would be around 1.8 GPM for the 3 lines. Big difference. That is
why
I would think he needs a larger line than the 1/2 inch he has, especially
for over 300 feet.

The way I read it, he has 20 drip lines each using .6 GPM. That's 12 GPM.
He could also put in a valve, either mechanical or automatic that would
only run some subset of those at a time.

You are correct. I don't know where I came up with only 3 lines.

It will take a good well to put out 12 gpm for very long at a time. No
wonder he can only run a couple of thoses drip lines. I was looking at some
pipe flow charts and only used the 1.8 gpm that I some how made a mistake
with. I am thinking around here (middle of NC) that a good house well puts
out about 8 GPM. Maybe he has a lot larger than 6 inch well.

replying to Ralph Mowery , Denny of PA wrote:
rmowery28146 wrote:

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
I thought it was six GPM, but it looks like it is Point Six (6/10) GPM.
That would be around 1.8 GPM for the 3 lines. Big difference. That is
why
I would think he needs a larger line than the 1/2 inch he has, especially
for over 300 feet.



OK, thank you all for your valuable input.

Yes for clarification the trickle line tubing uses 0.5 gpm/100' which
means in 120' that is about 0.6 gpm in each one.

I imagine that what is reducing my pressure at the outside facet is
because at that point, the facet is located about 50 ' already from the
pressure tank which is located inside the home basement, and to that point
that is only serviced by 1/2" copper tubing, so I cannot increase the size
of my piping back to the pressure tank point as someone else had
suggested.

I was working on it again today. Someone mentioned that most trickle
irrigation systems are designed to run on 15 psi, that is correct and
that is what I had been using to only get the 1 or 2 lines to be able to
be feed at a single time. But today i decided to remove the restricted
PSI attachment in hope that my flow with the greater pressure would be
increase up stream at 300 feet away. When i removed the 15 psi filter, I
now found that I was able to get up top 5 of the 120' lines going at
once. I tried opeing a 6th line, and the volume of water flow was so slow
that it then even detracted from the flow on the other 5 lines.

Tomorrow I am planning to try to obtain some larger supply hoses to see if
the increased water volume be pushed would benefit I am going to buy a
roll of 1" diameter tubing to use as a supply line to replace the 1/2 "
to the garden, to see if this would increase the number of 120' trickle
line be utilized at a time may be increased. . I would be really happy if
i could get 10 of them to be used at once, which means I could water half
of the garden at a time for several hours , and then water the other
half.

BTW in case you are interested, what I am watering is 2,000 strawberry
plants, which are planted in 120' rows located 4' apart. Many many
thanks to you all again for your valuable input. I will let you know how
the greater size 1" tubing works out, if I can obtain it tomorrow, or
later this week.

--

Denny of PA wrote:

I would like to have enough water and
pressure to feed more of the lines at a time if possible

Maximum pressure is with the minimum diameter hose.
Maximum water volume is with the maximum diameter hose.

On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 4:34:47 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
I thought it was six GPM, but it looks like it is Point Six (6/10) GPM.

That would be around 1.8 GPM for the 3 lines. Big difference. That is
why
I would think he needs a larger line than the 1/2 inch he has, especially
for over 300 feet.

The way I read it, he has 20 drip lines each using .6 GPM. That's 12 GPM.
He could also put in a valve, either mechanical or automatic that would
only run some subset of those at a time.

You are correct. I don't know where I came up with only 3 lines.

It will take a good well to put out 12 gpm for very long at a time. No
wonder he can only run a couple of thoses drip lines. I was looking at some
pipe flow charts and only used the 1.8 gpm that I some how made a mistake
with. I am thinking around here (middle of NC) that a good house well puts
out about 8 GPM. Maybe he has a lot larger than 6 inch well.

NJ here and 4" well, 50-100ft, typically can do 15 gpm. But
of course what matters is what his well can deliver and I agree,
there are plenty of wells that won't be able to keep up.

On Monday, May 11, 2015 at 11:44:07 PM UTC-4, Denny of PA wrote:
replying to Ralph Mowery , Denny of PA wrote:
rmowery28146 wrote:

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
I thought it was six GPM, but it looks like it is Point Six (6/10) GPM.
That would be around 1.8 GPM for the 3 lines. Big difference. That is
why
I would think he needs a larger line than the 1/2 inch he has, especially
for over 300 feet.



OK, thank you all for your valuable input.

Yes for clarification the trickle line tubing uses 0.5 gpm/100' which
means in 120' that is about 0.6 gpm in each one.

I imagine that what is reducing my pressure at the outside facet is
because at that point, the facet is located about 50 ' already from the
pressure tank which is located inside the home basement, and to that point
that is only serviced by 1/2" copper tubing, so I cannot increase the size
of my piping back to the pressure tank point as someone else had
suggested.

Why can't that part be fixed? Finished basement? If you have 50ft
of 1/2" pipe, followed by 300 ft of other pipe, you'll never
support 12 gpm. Once you throttle it back like that, you can put
2" pipe after it and it's not going to make much difference.
Best bet is probably to water it in several sections instead of all at once.

replying to trader_4 , Denny of PA wrote:
trader4 wrote:

NJ here and 4" well, 50-100ft, typically can do 15 gpm. But
of course what matters is what his well can deliver and I agree,
there are plenty of wells that won't be able to keep up.



Today for curiosity I ran the water out at the facet, and determined that
it was putting out just 6 gallons per min, so i guess it really does nor
matter how much pressure I have, at most i can only use 10 of the lines at
a single time, at the volume required is 0.6 gpm Is that the right way of
looking at it ? BUT I am not able to get that yet, Could it be
because i am only feeding the line with 1/2 " hoses,,,,? If I increased
the diameter of the feed line hoases to 1" , would i then be able to get
my full 6 gmp to the field?


--

"Denny of PA" wrote in
message oups.com...
Today for curiosity I ran the water out at the facet, and determined that
it was putting out just 6 gallons per min, so i guess it really does nor
matter how much pressure I have, at most i can only use 10 of the lines at
a single time, at the volume required is 0.6 gpm Is that the right way of
looking at it ? BUT I am not able to get that yet, Could it be
because i am only feeding the line with 1/2 " hoses,,,,? If I increased
the diameter of the feed line hoases to 1" , would i then be able to get
my full 6 gmp to the field?

Go to one of the online calculators like this and play around.

http://www.tlv.com/global/TI/calcula...h-piping.html#

You probably need a pipe that is about 3/4 inch trade size which is much
larger than the actual measured size.

run the existing small lnie to a new storage tank where you need the water.

a large tank. and add a pressure tank at that end.......

On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 11:44:05 PM UTC-4, Denny of PA wrote:
replying to trader_4 , Denny of PA wrote:
trader4 wrote:

NJ here and 4" well, 50-100ft, typically can do 15 gpm. But
of course what matters is what his well can deliver and I agree,
there are plenty of wells that won't be able to keep up.



Today for curiosity I ran the water out at the facet, and determined that
it was putting out just 6 gallons per min, so i guess it really does nor
matter how much pressure I have, at most i can only use 10 of the lines at
a single time, at the volume required is 0.6 gpm Is that the right way of
looking at it ?

Yes. You can't get 10 lbs of crap from a 5 lb bucket.


BUT I am not able to get that yet, Could it be
because i am only feeding the line with 1/2 " hoses,,,,? If I increased
the diameter of the feed line hoases to 1" , would i then be able to get
my full 6 gmp to the field?


--

Whatever flow you have from a 1/2" hose at 300 ft, you're certainly
going to get a lot more from 3/4", and more still from 1". You'd be
closer to 6 GPM, but from physics, you're still not going to get the
full 6 GPM that you have with no resistance at all.

You said you're using it for strawberries and this sounds like
a decent size project. Have you considered using black poly pipe/tubing?
You can probably get a 1" x 300 ft roll of that for less than it's going
to cost for hoses.

Any need for it to be buried? Lawn sprinkler guys could pull that
pipe for you underground in an hour, assuming it's just clear shot,
no trees, etc. IDK what they would charge,
they'd have to bring the pulling tractor over, etc, so it wouldn't
be real cheap, but then it's buried, permanent, etc. Just throwing
it out as an option.

replying to trader_4 , Denny of PA wrote:
trader4 wrote:

Yes. You can't get 10 lbs of crap from a 5 lb bucket.
BUT I am not able to get that yet, Could it be
Whatever flow you have from a 1/2" hose at 300 ft, you're certainly
going to get a lot more from 3/4", and more still from 1". You'd be
closer to 6 GPM, but from physics, you're still not going to get the
full 6 GPM that you have with no resistance at all.
You said you're using it for strawberries and this sounds like
a decent size project. Have you considered using black poly pipe/tubing?
You can probably get a 1" x 300 ft roll of that for less than it's going
to cost for hoses.
Any need for it to be buried? Lawn sprinkler guys could pull that
pipe for you underground in an hour, assuming it's just clear shot,
no trees, etc. IDK what they would charge,
they'd have to bring the pulling tractor over, etc, so it wouldn't
be real cheap, but then it's buried, permanent, etc. Just throwing
it out as an option.


today as a trial I just replaced part of my feed line with an additional
50' of 1-1/2" header pipe , at the 300 ' end and I eliminated 50' of one
of the 1/2" hoses that i was using to feed the head section. , and i was
happy to see that i was now able to get 7 of the 120" trickle line working
at a time.
yes trhe larger supply pipe appears to be the answer, I was just using
the hoses because they were available, but now that i know the cure to my
problem i will invest in the poly pipe., and maybe i will be able to get
10 of the lines working at a time like i would like

thanks again for your help

Denny



thank you all for your


--

today as a trial I just replaced part of my feed line with an additional
50' of 1-1/2" header pipe , at the 300 ' end and I eliminated 50' of one
of the 1/2" hoses that i was using to feed the head section. , and i was
happy to see that i was now able to get 7 of the 120" trickle line working
at a time.
yes trhe larger supply pipe appears to be the answer, I was just using
the hoses because they were available, but now that i know the cure to my
problem i will invest in the poly pipe., and maybe i will be able to get
10 of the lines working at a time like i would like

thanks again for your help

Denny



thank you all for your


-

its a trickle system, truly whats critical about running 10 lines at a time?

you could run just one line at a time, 24 hours a day.-

what difference would it make?

replying to bob haller , Denny of PA wrote:
hallerb wrote:

its a trickle system, truly whats critical about running 10 lines at a
time?
you could run just one line at a time, 24 hours a day.-
what difference would it make?



simply because I have 20 - 120 ' lines off of my 1-1/2" header line , and
if i run 10 of them at time i water half the garden all at once in about 2
hours.
my total supply is 6 gpm and each 120 ' line takes 0.6 gpm x 10 = 6 gpm ,
that is the max that I can possible water at the same time.

THAT ! is the difference. ;-)


--