In article , "Bob F"
wrote:

Lab Lover wrote:
On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 13:35:52 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 09:13:09 -0800, Lab Lover wrote:

On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 12:02:35 -0500, wrote:

Those "crip plates" are not just for paraplegics.

No surprise that Illinois is cracking down on abusers of handicap
parking permits, especially when it cuts into their revenue! See:

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward...led-Parking-Co
uld-Be-Boon-to-City-238476421.html

No, it doesn't cut into their revenue. Going after them enhances it.
No issue with making any criminals pay (dearly) but I find people who
judge others, without information, to be offensive.

Prejudice is distasteful, I agree. Apparently, the state of Illinois
believes there is a loss of parking revenue due to those possessing
handicap permits parking in metered spots, for long periods of time,
at no charge.

It was well explained in the acticle pointed to.

"According to previous state law, cars with disabled placards were allowed to
park at a meter for free for an unlimited period of time. The private company
that leases the meters as part of a 75-year deal, Chicago Parking Meters LLC,
charged the city for revenue lost to disabled parking according to a formula.
As part of the revised deal struck earlier this year, the city had to pay
$54.9
million for the use of disabled placards over the past two years."



Source:
http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward...Parking-Could-
Be-Boon-to-City-238476421.html#ixzz2s6ykzBHT"

I thought it was Chicago that made the deal with the private company,
not the State of Illinois. While handicap placards would be issued by
the state, enforcement would be by each individual jurisdiction

On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 17:33:28 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 13:06:27 -0800, Lab Lover wrote:

On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 16:00:19 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/1/2014 2:43 PM, Lab Lover wrote:


I would never use the term "Crip", I consider it to be pejorative.
I'm not PC so it is OK by me.


If you read the article I posted above, you will find an explanation of what
they are doing in Illinois and why.

"A state law taking effect Jan. 1 says only motorists whose impairments prevent
them from being able to pay a meter can park for free in those spots. Before,
anyone with a disability parking placard could do so."

OK by me too. Having a physical disability does not make you too poor
to pay for parking.



Putting stricter controls in place for all such government privileges and
entitlements would be a positive step, IMHO.


Here in CT a doctor has to sign off on it.

I think that is the case in most, if not all states. However, I have known
quite a few less than honest and ethical doctors.

That seems to be the root problem, no? Grab a few licenses and the
message will go out.


Yeah, can't even get the medical boards to pull licenses when male psychiatrists
have sex with 15 year old male patients..... Probation, everyone gets
probation.

On 2/1/2014 5:31 PM, wrote:

Used vehicles were just stupid expensive so I bought a new F150. I
like it a lot.

The 150 is a good size. We have an F250 4WD for the shop. I really
dislike driving it right from getting into it. My maintenance
supervisor uses it mostly and says it makes a good plow truck.



For a good 'old age' car one is hard to find. Basically I want a 2x stripped model with no frills that I wouldn't use anyhow. I had a slow day waitning on a lube/oil change and checked with salesman for such a car. Not available except by special order.

It really seems they are missing the market. Something on the order
of 60% of the new cars were bought by people over 55. This
demographic is the only one with the money.


I don't want a stripped model. I want everything. I have a 4 door sedan
with a turbo and every option.

On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 19:52:16 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/1/2014 5:31 PM, wrote:

Used vehicles were just stupid expensive so I bought a new F150. I
like it a lot.

The 150 is a good size. We have an F250 4WD for the shop. I really
dislike driving it right from getting into it. My maintenance
supervisor uses it mostly and says it makes a good plow truck.

HAving moved up from a Ranger, it did take a little getting used to
driving it. SWMBO still won't get in the left seat. It really drives
well, though.

For a good 'old age' car one is hard to find. Basically I want a 2x stripped model with no frills that I wouldn't use anyhow. I had a slow day waitning on a lube/oil change and checked with salesman for such a car. Not available except by special order.

It really seems they are missing the market. Something on the order
of 60% of the new cars were bought by people over 55. This
demographic is the only one with the money.


I don't want a stripped model. I want everything. I have a 4 door sedan
with a turbo and every option.

I don't want turbo but I like creature comforts. I got the 5L V8 on
the F150 instead of the V6 twin turbo "ECO" engine.

On Saturday, February 1, 2014 5:12:49 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 19:52:16 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

It really seems they are missing the market. Something on the order
of 60% of the new cars were bought by people over 55. This
demographic is the only one with the money.

I don't want a stripped model. I want everything. I have a 4 door sedan
with a turbo and every option.

I don't want turbo but I like creature comforts. I got the 5L V8 on
the F150 instead of the V6 twin turbo "ECO" engine.

Creature "comforts" are heater, A/C, power windows and at least drivers seat, good radio. Those come standard on all vehicles any more, even the stripped ones. All the rest are just play toys that take your attention off driving.

Harry K

Per :
It really seems they are missing the market. Something on the order
of 60% of the new cars were bought by people over 55. This
demographic is the only one with the money.

Start looking at Honda Element drivers.

Maybe it's just me, but around here there seem to be a disproportionate
percentage of grey heads driving Elements.

My theory is that Honda accidentally put something out that caters to
that market.
--
Pete Cresswell

Per :
HAving moved up from a Ranger, it did take a little getting used to
driving it. SWMBO still won't get in the left seat. It really drives
well, though.


My F150 is the worst-driving vehicle I've ever owned. The Suburban was
pretty bad, but at least it went in snow without 4wd. The F150 really
*needs* 4wd and the rear end wants to break away on almost anything
short of perfectly-dry pavement.

OTOH, it's envelope is pretty close to my own envelope and that's a good
thing. If I were driving a Porsche, I'd probably be dead within the
year.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 2/2/2014 1:04 AM, Harry K wrote:


I don't want turbo but I like creature comforts. I got the 5L V8 on
the F150 instead of the V6 twin turbo "ECO" engine.

Creature "comforts" are heater, A/C, power windows and at least drivers seat, good radio. Those come standard on all vehicles any more, even the stripped ones. All the rest are just play toys that take your attention off driving.

Harry K


That's a big brush you are using. Not on your list, but not a
distraction is a backup camera. Won't buy another car without one.

Other upgrades are better instruments, shifting, steering wheel
controls, heated seats, lighting options, remote start. I don't see
them as distractions.

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 5:32:20 AM UTC-8, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :

HAving moved up from a Ranger, it did take a little getting used to
driving it. SWMBO still won't get in the left seat. It really drives
well, though.

My F150 is the worst-driving vehicle I've ever owned. The Suburban was
pretty bad, but at least it went in snow without 4wd. The F150 really
*needs* 4wd and the rear end wants to break away on almost anything
short of perfectly-dry pavement.

OTOH, it's envelope is pretty close to my own envelope and that's a good
thing. If I were driving a Porsche, I'd probably be dead within the

year.

You are describing ANY 2x half-ton pickup. Without some weight in the bed they are very light on the rear end. At least the suburban has some weight back there. You are also grossly exaggerating the handling characteristics. That you can't drive one like a sports car and are thereby disappointed only shows you don't understand the purpose for which they were built.

It's a WORK truck, not a play-toy although I see way too many 4xs that are bought as, and treated like, play toys.

Harry K

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 6:39:36 AM UTC-8, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/2/2014 1:04 AM, Harry K wrote:
I don't want turbo but I like creature comforts. I got the 5L V8 on
the F150 instead of the V6 twin turbo "ECO" engine.

Creature "comforts" are heater, A/C, power windows and at least drivers seat, good radio. Those come standard on all vehicles any more, even the stripped ones. All the rest are just play toys that take your attention off driving.

Harry K

That's a big brush you are using. Not on your list, but not a
distraction is a backup camera. Won't buy another car without one.

Granted but that has zippo to do with driving on the road.

Other upgrades are better instruments, shifting, steering wheel
controls, heated seats, lighting options, remote start. I don't see
them as distractions.

Heated seats perhaps. Rest of those are either pretty standard for all models in a line. Steerign controls change only to add "play toys", remote start has zippo to do with driving,

To each his own. I know people (way too many) blowing 40-60 thousand on 4x SUVs and trucks with no intention of ever using 4x or hauling anything but people.

Harry K

On 2/1/2014 9:13 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:


I think there's quite a bit of that going around. In Philadelphia (PA,
USA) the city politicians were getting handicapped tags at one time.
Dunno if anybody's remedied that, but it's an obvious move for somebody
with no sense of shame.

Being a politician is a handicap - mental illness that craves power. Are
they sociopaths, psycholpaths or both?

On Sat, 1 Feb 2014 14:10:39 -0800 (PST), Harry K wrote
in

I'm 78 and very active, cut 10=12 cord wood annually etc. Had a rig in a Pape (john Deere) dealer for service and got a ride home. Yep one of them big things. I had one heck of a time getting into the cab, no running board. I agree that those jacked up POS's are not a vehicle for anyone with a 'disabled plate'. Of course there is the possibility that the driver is not the disabled person.

Even if the disabled person is the passenger, he/she still has to get
in.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On Sun, 2 Feb 2014 07:34:50 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 6:39:36 AM UTC-8, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/2/2014 1:04 AM, Harry K wrote:
I don't want turbo but I like creature comforts. I got the 5L V8 on
the F150 instead of the V6 twin turbo "ECO" engine.

Creature "comforts" are heater, A/C, power windows and at least drivers seat, good radio. Those come standard on all vehicles any more, even the stripped ones. All the rest are just play toys that take your attention off driving.

Harry K

That's a big brush you are using. Not on your list, but not a
distraction is a backup camera. Won't buy another car without one.

Granted but that has zippo to do with driving on the road.

At least now, they tend to come with upgraded radio or even navi. The
display doesn't just do one thing.

Other upgrades are better instruments, shifting, steering wheel
controls, heated seats, lighting options, remote start. I don't see
them as distractions.

Upgraded carpeting (the base, and even the next level (SLX?) are
pretty spartan.

Heated seats perhaps. Rest of those are either pretty standard for all models in a line. Steerign controls change only to add "play toys", remote start has zippo to do with driving,

Not so.

To each his own. I know people (way too many) blowing 40-60 thousand on 4x SUVs and trucks with no intention of ever using 4x or hauling anything but people.

SUVs are intended to haul people. I "blew" half that on my F150 and
it wasn't base, by any means. Sure, it was possible to spend that
much but not necessary to have some fairly nice features. If I'm
going to drive it for ten years, or more (last truck was 13 years),
I'll spend a little on some niceties.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:32:20 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
HAving moved up from a Ranger, it did take a little getting used to
driving it. SWMBO still won't get in the left seat. It really drives
well, though.


My F150 is the worst-driving vehicle I've ever owned. The Suburban was
pretty bad, but at least it went in snow without 4wd. The F150 really
*needs* 4wd and the rear end wants to break away on almost anything
short of perfectly-dry pavement.

That's an exaggeration. My 2013 was pretty good in the Atlanta ice
the other day. The back end never came loose. Yeah, if I still lived
in Vermont, I would have paid the extra $2000 for 4WD. My Ranger was
4WD and in the five years I had it down here, I never once used 4WD.
No need for 4WD here.

OTOH, it's envelope is pretty close to my own envelope and that's a good
thing. If I were driving a Porsche, I'd probably be dead within the
year.

On Sun, 2 Feb 2014 06:58:30 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 5:32:20 AM UTC-8, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :

HAving moved up from a Ranger, it did take a little getting used to
driving it. SWMBO still won't get in the left seat. It really drives
well, though.

My F150 is the worst-driving vehicle I've ever owned. The Suburban was
pretty bad, but at least it went in snow without 4wd. The F150 really
*needs* 4wd and the rear end wants to break away on almost anything
short of perfectly-dry pavement.

OTOH, it's envelope is pretty close to my own envelope and that's a good
thing. If I were driving a Porsche, I'd probably be dead within the

year.

You are describing ANY 2x half-ton pickup. Without some weight in the bed they are very light on the rear end. At least the suburban has some weight back there. You are also grossly exaggerating the handling characteristics. That you can't drive one like a sports car and are thereby disappointed only shows you don't understand the purpose for which they were built.

It's a WORK truck, not a play-toy although I see way too many 4xs that are bought as, and treated like, play toys.

I bought mine because I'm always doing something around the house.
Cars just don't cut it if you're a DIY homeowner.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:28:37 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
It really seems they are missing the market. Something on the order
of 60% of the new cars were bought by people over 55. This
demographic is the only one with the money.

Start looking at Honda Element drivers.

Maybe it's just me, but around here there seem to be a disproportionate
percentage of grey heads driving Elements.

The Element drivers I see here are much younger, typically young
families.

My theory is that Honda accidentally put something out that caters to
that market.

Pure unadulterated ugly?

Per Harry K:
That you can't drive one like a sports car and are thereby disappointed only shows you don't understand the purpose for which they were built.

It's a WORK truck, not a play-toy although I see way too many 4xs that are bought as, and treated like, play toys.

I agree 100% - and my expectations are correspondingly low.

But it's still the worst handling vehicle I've ever owned.

That doesn't make it intrinsically "bad". It is what it is and I can
deal with that. "Horses for courses".
--
Pete Cresswell

Per :
The Element drivers I see here are much younger, typically young
families.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is the target market

My theory is that Honda accidentally put something out that caters
to that market.

Pure unadulterated ugly?

Something that is easy to get in and out of without bumping one's head
and which has reasonable interior room.

With American cars, I'm starting to suspect that designers believe
people will feel insecure with too much room inside. They build these
quite-large cars (the wife's Malibu comes to mind) and then build out
the interior so there's hardly any room - not to mention the ludicrous
lack of headroom.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 2/1/14 12:44 AM, Zaky Waky wrote:
I live in a rural farm area where there are a lot of big pickup trucks like
this: http://sportscars2013.com/2013-dodge-ram-1500-pickup-truck/ and
many of them have "disabled" window-tags or plates because there are a lot
of old people around here driving them. My questions is: if you are so
cripped-up that you need a crip plate, then how can you climb up and down
into that thing?

Since this NG has a lot of old crips hanging around, I thought this would
be a good place to ask. Your not working so you have the time to answer.

An acquaintance has a pickup, a wheelchair, and no legs below the
knees. I think he had amputations due to diabetes. There is an
electric hoist in the pickup bed to load/unload the chair.
I've never seen him get in or out of the pickup so can't answer how
he does it.

On 2/2/2014 12:13 PM, wrote:

SUVs are intended to haul people. I "blew" half that on my F150 and
it wasn't base, by any means. Sure, it was possible to spend that
much but not necessary to have some fairly nice features. If I'm
going to drive it for ten years, or more (last truck was 13 years),
I'll spend a little on some niceties.


My thinking too. I drive about 22k miles a year so I want to make my
time as comfy as possible. I like the XM radio too.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 15:07:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/2/2014 12:13 PM, wrote:

SUVs are intended to haul people. I "blew" half that on my F150 and
it wasn't base, by any means. Sure, it was possible to spend that
much but not necessary to have some fairly nice features. If I'm
going to drive it for ten years, or more (last truck was 13 years),
I'll spend a little on some niceties.


My thinking too. I drive about 22k miles a year so I want to make my
time as comfy as possible. I like the XM radio too.

I paid for XM for my wife's '14 Mustang. We intend to use it for
trips, where XM excels. I didn't renew the subscription for the F150
because I normally use it to go to the BORG and back and forth to
work. I generally listen to news/talk on those trips. I can use my
iPod if I need to go longer. OTOH, they've offered my 50% off (pay
for six months, get 12) so I might bite. After you let the
subscription lapse, they start offering better deals.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:49:06 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
The Element drivers I see here are much younger, typically young
families.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is the target market

My theory is that Honda accidentally put something out that caters
to that market.

Pure unadulterated ugly?

Something that is easy to get in and out of without bumping one's head
and which has reasonable interior room.

With American cars, I'm starting to suspect that designers believe
people will feel insecure with too much room inside. They build these
quite-large cars (the wife's Malibu comes to mind) and then build out
the interior so there's hardly any room - not to mention the ludicrous
lack of headroom.

Are you 6'6"?

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 9:16:50 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:32:20 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :

HAving moved up from a Ranger, it did take a little getting used to
driving it. SWMBO still won't get in the left seat. It really drives
well, though.

My F150 is the worst-driving vehicle I've ever owned. The Suburban was
pretty bad, but at least it went in snow without 4wd. The F150 really
*needs* 4wd and the rear end wants to break away on almost anything
short of perfectly-dry pavement.

That's an exaggeration. My 2013 was pretty good in the Atlanta ice
the other day. The back end never came loose. Yeah, if I still lived
in Vermont, I would have paid the extra $2000 for 4WD. My Ranger was
4WD and in the five years I had it down here, I never once used 4WD.
No need for 4WD here.

I live in snow country up in Washington and have never had a 4x. Always got where I am need to using winter tires. I also heat with wood (6 cord or more/yr) cut my own, Every _needed_ 4x? A couple times. Had to call a tow to get me unstuck once, thought I would have to again but after 1/2 hours work packing brush got out. Othere than that once.

As for truck driving characteristics he is most definitely exaggerating with a possible exception. My first truck was a badly used F250 with very wide tires (definitely not OEM). It was 'squirrely' even on dry pavement. I change them back to normal size almost immediately - problem solved.

Harry K

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 9:18:25 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2014 06:58:30 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 5:32:20 AM UTC-8, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :

snip

You are describing ANY 2x half-ton pickup. Without some weight in the bed they are very light on the rear end. At least the suburban has some weight back there. You are also grossly exaggerating the handling characteristics. That you can't drive one like a sports car and are thereby disappointed only shows you don't understand the purpose for which they were built.

It's a WORK truck, not a play-toy although I see way too many 4xs that are bought as, and treated like, play toys.

I bought mine because I'm always doing something around the house.
Cars just don't cut it if you're a DIY homeowner.

That wouild be a work truck then. I have a stock of firewood now that will last me the rest of the time I have but will still always have a work truck to haul stuff a car, van or SUV can't. Even when I cut, the only time the truck moves is if it will be hauling something (trash, recycle, yard waste, etc).

Harry K

On 2/1/2014 3:07 PM, Zaky Waky wrote:
Lab Lover wrote in
:

Anecdotally, I have personally observed fraud and abuse with the
handicap parking privileges not to mention federal and state
disability entitlements.


I am seeing it more and more and more and more. IMO the only people who
are denying the abuse are the ones benefiting from it.


Yeah, they've caught college athletes using handicap hang tags around
here. Culture of entitlement.

Per :
Are you 6'6"?

6'5" with unusual leg proportions.

Was in the service with a guy who, by all indications, has the exact
same body as Kmart's size medium clothing dummy. It was amazing: he
always looked like he was wearing custom-tailored clothes.


--
Pete Cresswell

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 07:28:01 -0600, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

On 2/1/2014 3:07 PM, Zaky Waky wrote:
Lab Lover wrote in
:

Anecdotally, I have personally observed fraud and abuse with the
handicap parking privileges not to mention federal and state
disability entitlements.


I am seeing it more and more and more and more. IMO the only people who
are denying the abuse are the ones benefiting from it.


Yeah, they've caught college athletes using handicap hang tags around
here. Culture of entitlement.

It is probably easy for them to get approval for the tags from the team doctor
when they suffer injuries on the field / court.

It would be an interesting idea to give law enforcement the authority to pull
the tags when they witness their use by people who are obviously capable of
unimpeded movement.

On Monday, February 3, 2014 6:25:20 AM UTC-8, Lab Lover wrote:
On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 07:28:01 -0600, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 2/1/2014 3:07 PM, Zaky Waky wrote:
Lab Lover wrote in
:

Anecdotally, I have personally observed fraud and abuse with the
handicap parking privileges not to mention federal and state
disability entitlements.

I am seeing it more and more and more and more. IMO the only people who
are denying the abuse are the ones benefiting from it.

Yeah, they've caught college athletes using handicap hang tags around
here. Culture of entitlement.
It is probably easy for them to get approval for the tags from the team doctor
when they suffer injuries on the field / court.

It would be an interesting idea to give law enforcement the authority to pull
the tags when they witness their use by people who are obviously capable of
unimpeded movement.

City of Spokane, WA is pulling the privilege of unlimited _no pay_ parking in metered spots. They were losing millions to it.

Harry K

Per Lab Lover:
It would be an interesting idea to give law enforcement the authority to pull the tags when they witness their use by people who are
obviously capable of unimpeded movement.

I'd call that non-feasible because pain cannot be objectively measured
and I'd guess that a significant proportion of handicapped parking
permits are issued because the user experiences pain while walking.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 11:25:20 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Per Lab Lover:
It would be an interesting idea to give law enforcement the authority to pull the tags when they witness their use by people who are
obviously capable of unimpeded movement.

I'd call that non-feasible because pain cannot be objectively measured
and I'd guess that a significant proportion of handicapped parking
permits are issued because the user experiences pain while walking.


Yeah, pain is a fairly nebulous condition, it might be difficult. However, if
someone is in pain when they walk, they are usually going to walk slowly and
gingerly. If someone bounds out of their vehicle and runs into the 7-11 for a
pack of smokes, they might be considered suspect.

Per Lab Lover:
If someone bounds out of their vehicle and runs into the 7-11 for a
pack of smokes, they might be considered suspect.

As might the guy I watched shoveling 3' of snow from in front of my
parent's condo a few years back.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Sun, 2 Feb 2014 21:16:50 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 9:18:25 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2014 06:58:30 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 5:32:20 AM UTC-8, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per :

snip

You are describing ANY 2x half-ton pickup. Without some weight in the bed they are very light on the rear end. At least the suburban has some weight back there. You are also grossly exaggerating the handling characteristics. That you can't drive one like a sports car and are thereby disappointed only shows you don't understand the purpose for which they were built.

It's a WORK truck, not a play-toy although I see way too many 4xs that are bought as, and treated like, play toys.

I bought mine because I'm always doing something around the house.
Cars just don't cut it if you're a DIY homeowner.

That wouild be a work truck then. I have a stock of firewood now that will last me the rest of the time I have but will still always have a work truck to haul stuff a car, van or SUV can't. Even when I cut, the only time the truck moves is if it will be hauling something (trash, recycle, yard waste, etc).

I use it for commuting, too. It's got a nice interior (leather
seats), sync radio, and keyless entry (and all that rot). Is it still
a "work truck"?

On Sun, 2 Feb 2014 21:12:05 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 9:16:50 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:32:20 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :

HAving moved up from a Ranger, it did take a little getting used to
driving it. SWMBO still won't get in the left seat. It really drives
well, though.

My F150 is the worst-driving vehicle I've ever owned. The Suburban was
pretty bad, but at least it went in snow without 4wd. The F150 really
*needs* 4wd and the rear end wants to break away on almost anything
short of perfectly-dry pavement.

That's an exaggeration. My 2013 was pretty good in the Atlanta ice
the other day. The back end never came loose. Yeah, if I still lived
in Vermont, I would have paid the extra $2000 for 4WD. My Ranger was
4WD and in the five years I had it down here, I never once used 4WD.
No need for 4WD here.

I live in snow country up in Washington and have never had a 4x. Always got where I am need to using winter tires. I also heat with wood (6 cord or more/yr) cut my own, Every _needed_ 4x? A couple times. Had to call a tow to get me unstuck once, thought I would have to again but after 1/2 hours work packing brush got out. Othere than that once.

I wouldn't have made it with 2WD on my Ranger. All 2Wd pickups suck
in ice and snow. It's the nature of the beast.

As for truck driving characteristics he is most definitely exaggerating with a possible exception. My first truck was a badly used F250 with very wide tires (definitely not OEM). It was 'squirrely' even on dry pavement. I change them back to normal size almost immediately - problem solved.

Perhaps. I've always used the stock (sized) tires. I know studs will
really make a car feel like it's on ice when the pavement is only wet.

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 09:13:14 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
Are you 6'6"?

6'5" with unusual leg proportions.

You pretend it's a normal situation, though. Most cars are made for
one-sigma. You will be buying unusual, well, just about everything.

Was in the service with a guy who, by all indications, has the exact
same body as Kmart's size medium clothing dummy. It was amazing: he
always looked like he was wearing custom-tailored clothes.

;-)

In article ,
Lab Lover wrote:

It would be an interesting idea to give law enforcement the authority to pull
the tags when they witness their use by people who are obviously capable of
unimpeded movement.

Lousy idea. For example, I have one because of severe arthritis. Yet I
don't necessarily limp or have many outward signs of problems. Yet I
have excrutiating pain that makes it hard to walk long distances. I have
another friend that has severe breathing problems, but again, it doesn't
necessarily show up to the casual observer. You are asking cops to be
physicians, a VERY lousy idea.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

In article ,
Lab Lover wrote:

Yeah, pain is a fairly nebulous condition, it might be difficult. However,
if
someone is in pain when they walk, they are usually going to walk slowly and
gingerly. If someone bounds out of their vehicle and runs into the 7-11 for
a
pack of smokes, they might be considered suspect.

Or just having a good day. Besides I can be pretty frisky for a few
feet, sometimes.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 16:42:33 -0500, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Lab Lover wrote:

It would be an interesting idea to give law enforcement the authority to pull
the tags when they witness their use by people who are obviously capable of
unimpeded movement.

Lousy idea. For example, I have one because of severe arthritis. Yet I
don't necessarily limp or have many outward signs of problems. Yet I
have excrutiating pain that makes it hard to walk long distances. I have
another friend that has severe breathing problems, but again, it doesn't
necessarily show up to the casual observer. You are asking cops to be
physicians, a VERY lousy idea.

I think this is an interesting topic.

We ask the police to identify people who are driving while impaired and to do
so, initially, without conducting any kind of tests. In fact, I don't think it
would be very difficult to train police to identify people who MIGHT be abusing
handicapped privileges and force an assessment of the individual by a neutral
physician.

If as a society we could severely curtail the abuse of the handicap entitlement,
this would serve to ensure handicap facilities are available for those who truly
need them.

In article ,
Lab Lover wrote:


We ask the police to identify people who are driving while impaired and to do
so, initially, without conducting any kind of tests. In fact, I don't think
it
would be very difficult to train police to identify people who MIGHT be
abusing
handicapped privileges and force an assessment of the individual by a neutral
physician.

You don't understand this either. We have the cops do all sorts of
tests. With the exception of roadblocks (where to keep the judges happy
you have to stop everyone) they have to have some reason to pull you
over. You have to be driving eratically, weaving in and out, going too
slow, etc.
You are changing the parameters. The original suggestion was that
you give them the authority to pull the tag. I would have less problems
with your more recent suggestion, although the cops are busy enough as
it is.
I would also note that while they can pull you over for driving
impaired, generally you need more than the cop's say so to convict.


If as a society we could severely curtail the abuse of the handicap
entitlement,
this would serve to ensure handicap facilities are available for those who
truly
need them.
Maybe. Although I will note that other than casinos, I don't think I
have ever seen all of the handicapped spaces taken up.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 18:24:37 -0500, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Lab Lover wrote:


We ask the police to identify people who are driving while impaired and to do
so, initially, without conducting any kind of tests. In fact, I don't think
it
would be very difficult to train police to identify people who MIGHT be
abusing
handicapped privileges and force an assessment of the individual by a neutral
physician.

You don't understand this either. We have the cops do all sorts of
tests. With the exception of roadblocks (where to keep the judges happy
you have to stop everyone) they have to have some reason to pull you
over. You have to be driving eratically, weaving in and out, going too
slow, etc.
You are changing the parameters. The original suggestion was that
you give them the authority to pull the tag. I would have less problems
with your more recent suggestion, although the cops are busy enough as
it is.

Yes, I originally took a literary shortcut when I said "pull the tag." Of
course there must be due process. Police can convict citizens of nothing.

I would also note that while they can pull you over for driving
impaired, generally you need more than the cop's say so to convict.

C above



If as a society we could severely curtail the abuse of the handicap
entitlement,
this would serve to ensure handicap facilities are available for those who
truly
need them.
Maybe. Although I will note that other than casinos, I don't think I
have ever seen all of the handicapped spaces taken up.

I have not been able to find any kind of governmental statistics on the rate of
abuse of handicap privileges. Anecdotal observations such as you and I have
offered are virtually worthless. For example, I personally know two women who
have obtained handicap placards through their father who is an MD and these
women have no physical disabilities unless one considers narcissism and laziness
to be disabilities.

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 15:51:08 -0800, Lab Lover wrote:



I have not been able to find any kind of governmental statistics on the rate of
abuse of handicap privileges. Anecdotal observations such as you and I have
offered are virtually worthless. For example, I personally know two women who
have obtained handicap placards through their father who is an MD and these
women have no physical disabilities unless one considers narcissism and laziness
to be disabilities.

I assume everybody that isn't walking unusually slow is abusing the
stickers.
Sue me.