I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.

If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody
might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps....
OTOH.... ?
--
Pete Cresswell

On 1/25/2014 9:55 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.

If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody
might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps....
OTOH.... ?


The way I was taught it, many years ago, if you have a 20A circuit then
every item on the circuit needs to be able to handle 20A -- wires, outlets,
switches, etc. Really, what is the difference in cost between #14 and #12
wire? Yeah, it is a bit stiffer and harder to work with but you aren't
going to be doing it too often. I always remind myself that if a fire
occurs and the insurance inspector shows up I don't want him finding
anything stupid that would let the company wriggle out of paying up.

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp

breaker.



If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be

code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?



No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.







If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody

might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps....

OTOH.... ?

--

Pete Cresswell

Yes, you're on the right track.

On 1/25/2014 9:55 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.

If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody
might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps....
OTOH.... ?

As I understand it, at least in Michigan, If you use a 20 amp
circuit/breaker, code requires 12 gauge wire. 15 amp requires 14 gauge.
Therefore, the 14 gauge would not be code if using on a 20 amp circuit.

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.
If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.

That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp.

Harry K

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:06:13 PM UTC-5, Harry K wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp

breaker.

If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be

code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?



No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.



That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp.



Harry K

Maybe, and I see your point, but AFAIK, it's not a code violation,
unless you have a cite that says otherwise. Anyone changing a breaker
to a higher rating should only do so after checking everything on it and not
just by making assumptions.

In the case in question, I don't see all the fuss. I'd just use
12 gauge because it looks like it's about 15 ft of Romex in a
garage and as someone pointed out, the cost difference isn't much.

On 1/25/2014 10:35 AM, wrote:


Maybe, and I see your point, but AFAIK, it's not a code violation,
unless you have a cite that says otherwise. Anyone changing a breaker
to a higher rating should only do so after checking everything on it and not
just by making assumptions.

That attitude is exactly why we have one-size-fits-all requirements in
the code.
People are stupid.
Maybe you don't care if the next owner of the house burns it down.

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 4:23:53 PM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 1/25/2014 10:35 AM, wrote:





Maybe, and I see your point, but AFAIK, it's not a code violation,

unless you have a cite that says otherwise. Anyone changing a breaker

to a higher rating should only do so after checking everything on it and not

just by making assumptions.



That attitude is exactly why we have one-size-fits-all requirements in

the code.

People are stupid.

Maybe you don't care if the next owner of the house burns it down.

What "attitude"? And what "one size fits all" requirement in the NEC
are you referring to? Please cite. AFAIK, it's perfectly code compliant
to use either 12 gauge wire or 14 gauge wire on a 15 amp breaker. And
IDK of any requriement that says if you want to use 12 gauge for a very long
run to reduce voltage drop, then install some 15 amp receptacles on the
end or some lights, using 14 gauge, that it's not allowed. If you have
the section to cite, I'm sure we'd all like to see it.

And I'd say that people who are stupid and unqualifed should not be
changing breakers in a panel. Because if you operate on that premise, then
they could put a 50 amp breaker in and hook 12, 14, or 18 gauge wire
to it.

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:55:33 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.

If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

If I were to pick nits,

And even if you weren't.

I might say "No" because conceivably somebody
might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps....
OTOH.... ?

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:46:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), Harry K

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.
If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.

That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp.
Harry K

What code is that? The NEC does not address what an unqualified person
might do later.

NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:06:37 AM UTC-5, Harry K wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:46:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), Harry K



On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp

breaker.

If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be

code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?



No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.



That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp.

Harry K



What code is that? The NEC does not address what an unqualified person

might do later.



NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up.



Harry K

The point wasn't what NEC says about who wires it. The point was
that NEC doesn't prohibit what you and another poster claim.
Give us a cite to where the NEC says that you can't install 12 gauge
wire on a 15 amp breaker, then use 14 gauge to extend the run to
some lights. AFAIK, there is no such restriction and Gfre apparently agrees.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 11:32:20 -0500, wrote:


NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K

Not exactly true.

90.1(C)
(C) Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification or
an instruction manual for untrained persons.
The NEC is intended for use by capable engineers and electrical
contractors in the design and/or installation of electrical equipment;
by inspection authorities exercising legal jurisdiction over
electrical installations; by property insurance inspectors; by
qualified industrial, commercial, and residential electricians; and by
instructors of electrical apprentices or students.

I'm not in that list so I guess I should stop reading all the quotatoins
from it and citations to it given here. That will save me some time.

On 1/26/2014 10:44 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:06:37 AM UTC-5, Harry K wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:46:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), Harry K

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.
If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.

That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp.
Harry K

What code is that? The NEC does not address what an unqualified person
might do later.

NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K

The point wasn't what NEC says about who wires it.

Interesting implication was that someone who changes the breaker to 20A
if the wire is #12 (without investigating) is unqualified.

The point was
that NEC doesn't prohibit what you and another poster claim.
Give us a cite to where the NEC says that you can't install 12 gauge
wire on a 15 amp breaker, then use 14 gauge to extend the run to
some lights. AFAIK, there is no such restriction and Gfre apparently agrees.


So do I. The NEC is interested in minimum wire size.

You might increase the wire size for a long run to decrease voltage drop.

In article ,
wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:06:37 AM UTC-5, Harry K wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:46:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), Harry K
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.
If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?
No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.
That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12
guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp.
Harry K
What code is that? The NEC does not address what an unqualified person
might do later.
NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear
about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't
pass no matter who screwed it up.
Harry K
The point wasn't what NEC says about who wires it. The point was
that NEC doesn't prohibit what you and another poster claim.
Give us a cite to where the NEC says that you can't install 12 gauge
wire on a 15 amp breaker, then use 14 gauge to extend the run to
some lights. AFAIK, there is no such restriction and Gfre apparently agrees.


As a matter of fact, at other places in the code you will find that
under certain circumstances e.g. long runs from the breaker box, it
REQUIRES that 12 gauge wire be used on 15 amp circuits...


--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

wrote in message
...
Seriously, there are other books that interpret the arcane language of
the code.
In fact the first sentence of my cite is from the NEC, the rest is
from the NEC handbook, one of those interpretations.
That is what most mortals should be buying anyway. It gives you the
code, then explains what they are saying.

The Handbook is almost required to understand the Code Book. Especially the
drawings. I have not looked at a Code Book in a long time, but don't recall
any drawings in it to explain the language.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:55:33 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.

If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody
might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps....
OTOH.... ?


*NO*. Every wire on a 20A breaker must be #12 (or thicker). If you use
#12 on a 15A breaker, that is perfectly fine. Therefore, if you want to
use #14 wire, just change the breaker to a 15A. But I'd just buy the
#12 wire and be done with it. The cost of the wire is probably about
the same or less than a breaker.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 11:32:20 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:06:37 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:46:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), Harry K

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.
If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.

That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp.
Harry K

What code is that? The NEC does not address what an unqualified person
might do later.

NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K

Not exactly true.

90.1(C)
(C) Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification or
an instruction manual for untrained persons.
The NEC is intended for use by capable engineers and electrical
contractors in the design and/or installation of electrical equipment;
by inspection authorities exercising legal jurisdiction over
electrical installations; by property insurance inspectors; by
qualified industrial, commercial, and residential electricians; and by
instructors of electrical apprentices or students.
That just says who it ( the code) is intended to be used by - and
does not say anything about who does the work. ( as long as the
installation is inspected by " inspection authorities exercising legal
jurisdiction over electrical installations")

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 16:03:51 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 11:32:20 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:06:37 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:46:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), Harry K

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.
If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.

That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp.
Harry K

What code is that? The NEC does not address what an unqualified person
might do later.

NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K

Not exactly true.

90.1(C)
(C) Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification or
an instruction manual for untrained persons.
The NEC is intended for use by capable engineers and electrical
contractors in the design and/or installation of electrical equipment;
by inspection authorities exercising legal jurisdiction over
electrical installations; by property insurance inspectors; by
qualified industrial, commercial, and residential electricians; and by
instructors of electrical apprentices or students.
That just says who it ( the code) is intended to be used by - and
does not say anything about who does the work. ( as long as the
installation is inspected by " inspection authorities exercising legal
jurisdiction over electrical installations")

I always wondered why they don't make a residential version of the
code. There is so much stuff in the NEC that doesn't pertain to
residential. I think they could sell them to many people that find
the NEC too confusing. (Isn't that everyone?)

I had a workbook when I was studying electricity (1978) that was only
for house wiring. It showed pictures of a house and had sections that
were broken up as parts of the home. It has stuff like service,
kitchen, bath even CATV. A book like that could sell to a lot of home
owners that DIY.

I just tried to Google for it and didn't find anything similar.

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 16:37:54 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 16:03:51 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 11:32:20 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:06:37 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:46:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), Harry K

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.
If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.

That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp.
Harry K

What code is that? The NEC does not address what an unqualified person
might do later.

NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K

Not exactly true.

90.1(C)
(C) Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification or
an instruction manual for untrained persons.
The NEC is intended for use by capable engineers and electrical
contractors in the design and/or installation of electrical equipment;
by inspection authorities exercising legal jurisdiction over
electrical installations; by property insurance inspectors; by
qualified industrial, commercial, and residential electricians; and by
instructors of electrical apprentices or students.
That just says who it ( the code) is intended to be used by - and
does not say anything about who does the work. ( as long as the
installation is inspected by " inspection authorities exercising legal
jurisdiction over electrical installations")

I always wondered why they don't make a residential version of the
code. There is so much stuff in the NEC that doesn't pertain to
residential. I think they could sell them to many people that find
the NEC too confusing. (Isn't that everyone?)

I had a workbook when I was studying electricity (1978) that was only
for house wiring. It showed pictures of a house and had sections that
were broken up as parts of the home. It has stuff like service,
kitchen, bath even CATV. A book like that could sell to a lot of home
owners that DIY.

I just tried to Google for it and didn't find anything similar.

It probably hasn't been done for liability reasons.

On 1/26/14 10:06 AM, Harry K wrote:

NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear
about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations
don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K


The state of Nebraska does though. A homeowner can wire his own
stuff. I don't think I could even wire a neighbor's house for free
since I don't have a residential license. One can't wire for profit
without an appropriate license at least in theory.
Inspections aren't required in many areas unless one is replacing
the service.
There is reciprocity among several states surrounding Nebraska for
licensing.

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:30:53 PM UTC-8, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 1/26/14 10:06 AM, Harry K wrote:
NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear
about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations
don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K

The state of Nebraska does though. A homeowner can wire his own
stuff. I don't think I could even wire a neighbor's house for free
since I don't have a residential license. One can't wire for profit
without an appropriate license at least in theory.

AFAIK _anyone_ can do their own wiring in any state. That they are allowed to do it doesn not speak to doing it right or wrong though.

Inspections aren't required in many areas unless one is replacing
the service.

And when you sell the house, anyone buying without an inspection is a fool.

There is reciprocity among several states surrounding Nebraska for
licensing.

Again doesn't address the point about NEC code requirements.

Harry K

On Monday, January 27, 2014 1:26:43 AM UTC-5, Harry K wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:30:53 PM UTC-8, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 1/26/14 10:06 AM, Harry K wrote:

NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear

about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations

don't pass no matter who screwed it up.



Harry K



The state of Nebraska does though. A homeowner can wire his own

stuff. I don't think I could even wire a neighbor's house for free

since I don't have a residential license. One can't wire for profit

without an appropriate license at least in theory.



AFAIK _anyone_ can do their own wiring in any state. That they are allowed to do it doesn not speak to doing it right or wrong though.



Inspections aren't required in many areas unless one is replacing

the service.



And when you sell the house, anyone buying without an inspection is a fool.



Are you implying that a quick once over by the typical home
inspector for a sale on what he can easily see is the same as
an electrical inspection on the actual work as it was done
by the AHJ at the time it was done? If you watched the Holmes
shows on TV, he's been in house after house where all kinds
of screwed up wiring existed, but a home inspector never saw
it because it was hidden behind sheetrock, etc. Having specific
work inspected by the electrical inspector and what a home
inspector does are very different.






There is reciprocity among several states surrounding Nebraska for

licensing.



Again doesn't address the point about NEC code requirements.



Harry K

I thought we were discussing the alleged code requirement that says
you can't extend a 15 amp circuit that uses 12 gauge wire with 14 gauge.
Still waiting for a cite on that.

On 1/26/2014 3:37 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 16:03:51 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 11:32:20 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:06:37 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:46:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), Harry K

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker.
If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be
code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?

No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps.

That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp.
Harry K

What code is that? The NEC does not address what an unqualified person
might do later.

NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K

Not exactly true.

90.1(C)
(C) Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification or
an instruction manual for untrained persons.
The NEC is intended for use by capable engineers and electrical
contractors in the design and/or installation of electrical equipment;
by inspection authorities exercising legal jurisdiction over
electrical installations; by property insurance inspectors; by
qualified industrial, commercial, and residential electricians; and by
instructors of electrical apprentices or students.
That just says who it ( the code) is intended to be used by - and
does not say anything about who does the work. ( as long as the
installation is inspected by " inspection authorities exercising legal
jurisdiction over electrical installations")

I always wondered why they don't make a residential version of the
code. There is so much stuff in the NEC that doesn't pertain to
residential. I think they could sell them to many people that find
the NEC too confusing. (Isn't that everyone?)

Both from the publisher of the NEC:

http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/product....y&icid=&Page=2
2014 NEC® Pocket Guide to Residential Electrical Installations

http://www.constructionbook.com/nfpa...a05/nfpa-code/
National Electrical Code Requirements for One-and Two-Family Dwellings,
2005 Edition


I had a workbook when I was studying electricity (1978) that was only
for house wiring. It showed pictures of a house and had sections that
were broken up as parts of the home. It has stuff like service,
kitchen, bath even CATV. A book like that could sell to a lot of home
owners that DIY.

I just tried to Google for it and didn't find anything similar.


Unless things have changed drastically there are a lot of books on
residential electrical wiring.

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:55:33 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"

wrote:



I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp

breaker.



If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be

code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?



If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody

might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps....

OTOH.... ?





*NO*. Every wire on a 20A breaker must be #12 (or thicker). If you use

#12 on a 15A breaker, that is perfectly fine. Therefore, if you want to

use #14 wire, just change the breaker to a 15A. But I'd just buy the

#12 wire and be done with it. The cost of the wire is probably about

the same or less than a breaker.

+1 times 10

The issue here is that most of us agree that the logical thing
to do is just extend the freaking 15 ft circuit with 12 gauge.
But the second issue is, if you really wanted to use 14 for the
extension, is it code legal to do so, if u change the breaker to
15 amp. AFAIK, and I thingk u agree, per NEC that's OK. There are some
here claiming that is not NEC compliant.

On 1/27/2014 1:26 AM, Harry K wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:30:53 PM UTC-8, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 1/26/14 10:06 AM, Harry K wrote:
NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear
about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations
don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K

The state of Nebraska does though. A homeowner can wire his own
stuff. I don't think I could even wire a neighbor's house for free
since I don't have a residential license. One can't wire for profit
without an appropriate license at least in theory.

AFAIK _anyone_ can do their own wiring in any state. That they are allowed to do it doesn not speak to doing it right or wrong though.



Not true. In NYC (and, I suspect, in a few other cities as well) only a
licensed electrician can legally work on wiring, even to do something as
simple as replacing a light switch. Of course, no one abides by that
regulation demonstrated by the fact that all kinds of electrical parts
(switches, outlets, BX cable, etc.) are sold to anyone in the borgs,
hardware stores, electrical supply houses, etc.
--
Peace,
bobJ

Inspections aren't required in many areas unless one is replacing
the service.

And when you sell the house, anyone buying without an inspection is a fool.

There is reciprocity among several states surrounding Nebraska for
licensing.

Again doesn't address the point about NEC code requirements.

Harry K

On 1/27/2014 11:13 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:55:33 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"

wrote:



I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp

breaker.



If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be

code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?



If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody

might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps....

OTOH.... ?





*NO*. Every wire on a 20A breaker must be #12 (or thicker). If you use

#12 on a 15A breaker, that is perfectly fine. Therefore, if you want to

use #14 wire, just change the breaker to a 15A. But I'd just buy the

#12 wire and be done with it. The cost of the wire is probably about

the same or less than a breaker.

+1 times 10

The issue here is that most of us agree that the logical thing
to do is just extend the freaking 15 ft circuit with 12 gauge.
But the second issue is, if you really wanted to use 14 for the
extension, is it code legal to do so, if u change the breaker to
15 amp. AFAIK, and I thingk u agree, per NEC that's OK. There are some
here claiming that is not NEC compliant.


In essence, it is okay to put a 100 PSI device on a 50 PSI supply, but
the reverse is not okay.

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 05:26:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, January 27, 2014 1:26:43 AM UTC-5, Harry K wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:30:53 PM UTC-8, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 1/26/14 10:06 AM, Harry K wrote:

NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear

about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations

don't pass no matter who screwed it up.



Harry K



The state of Nebraska does though. A homeowner can wire his own

stuff. I don't think I could even wire a neighbor's house for free

since I don't have a residential license. One can't wire for profit

without an appropriate license at least in theory.



AFAIK _anyone_ can do their own wiring in any state. That they are allowed to do it doesn not speak to doing it right or wrong though.



Inspections aren't required in many areas unless one is replacing

the service.



And when you sell the house, anyone buying without an inspection is a fool.



Are you implying that a quick once over by the typical home
inspector for a sale on what he can easily see is the same as
an electrical inspection on the actual work as it was done
by the AHJ at the time it was done? If you watched the Holmes
shows on TV, he's been in house after house where all kinds
of screwed up wiring existed, but a home inspector never saw
it because it was hidden behind sheetrock, etc. Having specific
work inspected by the electrical inspector and what a home
inspector does are very different.

I've found some really screwed up stuff that the original electrician
did, and passed inspection (theoretically, at least).

...

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 22:26:43 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:30:53 PM UTC-8, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 1/26/14 10:06 AM, Harry K wrote:
NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear
about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations
don't pass no matter who screwed it up.

Harry K

The state of Nebraska does though. A homeowner can wire his own
stuff. I don't think I could even wire a neighbor's house for free
since I don't have a residential license. One can't wire for profit
without an appropriate license at least in theory.

AFAIK _anyone_ can do their own wiring in any state. That they are allowed to do it doesn not speak to doing it right or wrong though.

Not true. There is nothing that says that licensed electricians do it
right, either. I've cleaned up some real messes in my houses, along
the way.


Inspections aren't required in many areas unless one is replacing
the service.

And when you sell the house, anyone buying without an inspection is a fool.

So you demand to see a CO for every outlet? That must get
interesting.

There is reciprocity among several states surrounding Nebraska for
licensing.

Again doesn't address the point about NEC code requirements.

???

" wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:55:33 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"

wrote:



I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp

breaker.



If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be

code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light?



If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody

might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps....

OTOH.... ?





*NO*. Every wire on a 20A breaker must be #12 (or thicker). If you use

#12 on a 15A breaker, that is perfectly fine. Therefore, if you want to

use #14 wire, just change the breaker to a 15A. But I'd just buy the

#12 wire and be done with it. The cost of the wire is probably about

the same or less than a breaker.

+1 times 10

The issue here is that most of us agree that the logical thing
to do is just extend the freaking 15 ft circuit with 12 gauge.
But the second issue is, if you really wanted to use 14 for the
extension, is it code legal to do so, if u change the breaker to
15 amp. AFAIK, and I thingk u agree, per NEC that's OK. There are some
here claiming that is not NEC compliant.

Legal or not, that fact should be documented at box. Labeled as such. A
house diagram would be really nice.

Greg