Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new
Romex? I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth
covered insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is
working well (was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the
box, the lights were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops.
Just for the record I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to
let my hands touch anything metal; I just didn't realize that the switch
I was using was almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth covered
insulation appears to be in good shape. I like the damage resistance of
the BX, but I also like the higher temperature rating of the new NM-B.

I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the right
answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a separate
ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am definitely
replacing a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch on the
stairwell light and will be replacing a couple lampholders with shop
lights (cheap 'n' sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of the
blank plate of the octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry room
and won't be until *ALL* the wiring is done)

Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
"repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a
big deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor PITA.
I know it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should be
acceptable...

Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at
the bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex
through the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces of
BX going into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling space
between the studs) the light would go out, and then when I touched it
again it would come back on. I figured this needed immediate attention,
and I just imagined that I'd find that I'd have to repull all of the
runs that entered the box due to it being fried. Imagine my surprise
when I pulled it down and everything looked fine inside, but when I
removed the lampholder itself the neutral screw was loose. OK,
reinstall, works. Left it dangling from the wires and carefully wiggled
the two wire nuts inside the box. When I wiggled the neutral, the light
would flicker. Not good! removed wire nut, here it didn't have any
spiral steel insert and was very loose on the wires. Some electrician -
presumably back in 1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me
out 60 years later... A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and
all is working fine now

nate

(getting in practice for all the hidden work...)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new Romex?
I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth covered
insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is working well
(was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the box, the lights
were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops. Just for the record
I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to let my hands touch
anything metal; I just didn't realize that the switch I was using was
almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth covered insulation appears
to be in good shape. I like the damage resistance of the BX, but I also
like the higher temperature rating of the new NM-B.

I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the right
answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a separate
ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am definitely replacing
a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch on the stairwell light
and will be replacing a couple lampholders with shop lights (cheap 'n'
sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of the blank plate of the
octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry room and won't be until
*ALL* the wiring is done)

Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
"repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a big
deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor PITA. I know
it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should be acceptable...

Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at the
bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex through
the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces of BX going
into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling space between the
studs) the light would go out, and then when I touched it again it would
come back on. I figured this needed immediate attention, and I just
imagined that I'd find that I'd have to repull all of the runs that
entered the box due to it being fried. Imagine my surprise when I pulled
it down and everything looked fine inside, but when I removed the
lampholder itself the neutral screw was loose. OK, reinstall, works.
Left it dangling from the wires and carefully wiggled the two wire nuts
inside the box. When I wiggled the neutral, the light would flicker. Not
good! removed wire nut, here it didn't have any spiral steel insert and
was very loose on the wires. Some electrician - presumably back in
1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me out 60 years
later... A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and all is working
fine now

nate

(getting in practice for all the hidden work...)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Old cloth covered AC cable was in my opinion, the worst of all building
cables. Anything would be better

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:08:00 -0500, "RBM" wrote:


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new Romex?
I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth covered
insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is working well
(was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the box, the lights
were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops. Just for the record
I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to let my hands touch
anything metal; I just didn't realize that the switch I was using was
almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth covered insulation appears
to be in good shape. I like the damage resistance of the BX, but I also
like the higher temperature rating of the new NM-B.

I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the right
answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a separate
ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am definitely replacing
a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch on the stairwell light
and will be replacing a couple lampholders with shop lights (cheap 'n'
sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of the blank plate of the
octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry room and won't be until
*ALL* the wiring is done)

Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
"repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a big
deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor PITA. I know
it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should be acceptable...

Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at the
bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex through
the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces of BX going
into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling space between the
studs) the light would go out, and then when I touched it again it would
come back on. I figured this needed immediate attention, and I just
imagined that I'd find that I'd have to repull all of the runs that
entered the box due to it being fried. Imagine my surprise when I pulled
it down and everything looked fine inside, but when I removed the
lampholder itself the neutral screw was loose. OK, reinstall, works.
Left it dangling from the wires and carefully wiggled the two wire nuts
inside the box. When I wiggled the neutral, the light would flicker. Not
good! removed wire nut, here it didn't have any spiral steel insert and
was very loose on the wires. Some electrician - presumably back in
1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me out 60 years
later... A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and all is working
fine now

nate

(getting in practice for all the hidden work...)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Old cloth covered AC cable was in my opinion, the worst of all building
cables. Anything would be better


This, if anything is an understatement. My house has this crap and I
am slowly replacing it as I get a chance.

The problem is that its rubber insulation with a cloth covering. As
it gets old, the rubber becomes brittle. Any time you move a wire, the
rubber cracks and falls off and creates a shorting/fire hazard.

At the very least, If you ever open an electrical box for whatever
reason, you should put some heatshrink tubing over the pigtails
sticking out of the BX to hold the cracked insulation in place.

-dickm

On Feb 26, 9:25*am, dicko wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:08:00 -0500, "RBM" wrote:

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? *Old BX or new Romex?
I'm really not sure which should be preferable. *BX has cloth covered
insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is working well
(was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the box, the lights
were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops. Just for the record
I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to let my hands touch
anything metal; I just didn't realize that the switch I was using was
almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth covered insulation appears
to be in good shape. *I like the damage resistance of the BX, but I also
like the higher temperature rating of the new NM-B.

I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
NM-B has 90C. *Does it really make a big difference? *I know the right
answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a separate
ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? *I am definitely replacing
a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch on the stairwell light
and will be replacing a couple lampholders with shop lights (cheap 'n'
sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of the blank plate of the
octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry room and won't be until
*ALL* the wiring is done)

Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
somewhat-newer Romex, *do you generally consider it acceptable to
"repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? *This is all the old NM not
NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. *Is this a big
deal? *Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor PITA. I know
it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should be acceptable...

Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at the
bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex through
the same space. *Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces of BX going
into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling space between the
studs) the light would go out, and then when I touched it again it would
come back on. *I figured this needed immediate attention, and I just
imagined that I'd find that I'd have to repull all of the runs that
entered the box due to it being fried. *Imagine my surprise when I pulled
it down and everything looked fine inside, but when I removed the
lampholder itself the neutral screw was loose. *OK, reinstall, works.
Left it dangling from the wires and carefully wiggled the two wire nuts
inside the box. *When I wiggled the neutral, the light would flicker. *Not
good! *removed wire nut, here it didn't have any spiral steel insert and
was very loose on the wires. *Some electrician - presumably back in
1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me out 60 years
later... *A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and all is working
fine now

nate

(getting in practice for all the hidden work...)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Old cloth covered AC cable was in my opinion, the worst of all building
cables. Anything would be better

This, if anything is an understatement. *My house has this crap and I
am slowly replacing it as I get a chance.

The problem is that *its rubber insulation with a cloth covering. As
it gets old, the rubber becomes brittle. Any time you move a wire, the
rubber cracks and falls off and creates a shorting/fire hazard. *

At the very least, If you ever open an electrical box for whatever
reason, you should put some heatshrink tubing over the pigtails
sticking out of the BX to hold the cracked insulation in place.

-dickm

That's what I *expected* to see, but the rubber is actually quite
pliable and appears to be in good shape, hence my question.

I'm kinda leaning towards leaving the BX in place because a) the armor
is nice, and some of the holes through the joists might be a little
close to the underside of the joist and b) I'm not a big fan of
replacing stuff that doesn't need to be replaced. Maybe it's in
better shape here because there are only porcelain lampholders and not
actual fixtures, and all boxes are in an open area except for one,
which is above the ceiling but also somewhat open, so heat doesn't
build up so much?

nate

N8N wrote:

some of the holes through the joists might be a little
close to the underside of the joist

Ignoring the wire issues, if the above is the case, I'd consider finding
and installing some reinforcing straps (Simpson stuff probably), or
sistering / sandwiching some reinforcing on the joists with holes near
the bottom. Might be overkill, but I don't like to see compromised
structures like that.

On Feb 26, 6:08 am, "RBM" wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...



Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new Romex?
I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth covered
insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is working well
(was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the box, the lights
were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops. Just for the record
I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to let my hands touch
anything metal; I just didn't realize that the switch I was using was
almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth covered insulation appears
to be in good shape. I like the damage resistance of the BX, but I also
like the higher temperature rating of the new NM-B.

I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the right
answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a separate
ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am definitely replacing
a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch on the stairwell light
and will be replacing a couple lampholders with shop lights (cheap 'n'
sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of the blank plate of the
octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry room and won't be until
*ALL* the wiring is done)

Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
"repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a big
deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor PITA. I know
it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should be acceptable...

Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at the
bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex through
the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces of BX going
into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling space between the
studs) the light would go out, and then when I touched it again it would
come back on. I figured this needed immediate attention, and I just
imagined that I'd find that I'd have to repull all of the runs that
entered the box due to it being fried. Imagine my surprise when I pulled
it down and everything looked fine inside, but when I removed the
lampholder itself the neutral screw was loose. OK, reinstall, works.
Left it dangling from the wires and carefully wiggled the two wire nuts
inside the box. When I wiggled the neutral, the light would flicker. Not
good! removed wire nut, here it didn't have any spiral steel insert and
was very loose on the wires. Some electrician - presumably back in
1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me out 60 years
later... A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and all is working
fine now

nate

(getting in practice for all the hidden work...)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Old cloth covered AC cable was in my opinion, the worst of all building
cables. Anything would be better

So, you would rather have knob & tube or 2-wire ungrounded NM?

JK

Big_Jake wrote:
On Feb 26, 6:08 am, "RBM" wrote:

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...




Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new Romex?
I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth covered
insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is working well
(was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the box, the lights
were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops. Just for the record
I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to let my hands touch
anything metal; I just didn't realize that the switch I was using was
almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth covered insulation appears
to be in good shape. I like the damage resistance of the BX, but I also
like the higher temperature rating of the new NM-B.

I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the right
answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a separate
ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am definitely replacing
a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch on the stairwell light
and will be replacing a couple lampholders with shop lights (cheap 'n'
sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of the blank plate of the
octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry room and won't be until
*ALL* the wiring is done)

Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
"repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a big
deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor PITA. I know
it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should be acceptable...

Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at the
bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex through
the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces of BX going
into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling space between the
studs) the light would go out, and then when I touched it again it would
come back on. I figured this needed immediate attention, and I just
imagined that I'd find that I'd have to repull all of the runs that
entered the box due to it being fried. Imagine my surprise when I pulled
it down and everything looked fine inside, but when I removed the
lampholder itself the neutral screw was loose. OK, reinstall, works.
Left it dangling from the wires and carefully wiggled the two wire nuts
inside the box. When I wiggled the neutral, the light would flicker. Not
good! removed wire nut, here it didn't have any spiral steel insert and
was very loose on the wires. Some electrician - presumably back in
1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me out 60 years
later... A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and all is working
fine now

nate

(getting in practice for all the hidden work...)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Old cloth covered AC cable was in my opinion, the worst of all building
cables. Anything would be better


So, you would rather have knob & tube or 2-wire ungrounded NM?

JK

you mean the stuff the REST of the house is wired with?

At least the (ungrounded) NM does not use cloth covering on the
individual wires; I'll give it that. But the lack of a ground kinda
sucks, because it severely limits my choices of fixtures (at least ones
that can be installed and be code compliant) until I can rectify the
ground issue.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Old cloth covered AC cable was in my opinion, the worst of all
building cables. Anything would be better

So, you would rather have knob & tube or 2-wire ungrounded NM?

Assuming the insulation is in good condition, either is actually quite
usable electrically (though the lack of ground is a problem).

However, you can insulate around NM wire, whereas you're not supposed to
insulate around knob and tube wiring. I think it's because the insulation
doesn't hold up to the increased heat build-up.

Anthony

HerHusband wrote:


However, you can insulate around NM wire, whereas you're not supposed to
insulate around knob and tube wiring. I think it's because the insulation
doesn't hold up to the increased heat build-up.


The current Romex (NM-B) has 90 degree C insulation. One reason is
because Romex was being put in insulation.

Old K&T has 60 degree insulation. But so did Romex until relatively
recently. And with the old Romex 2 conductors, and their generated heat,
are run immediately adjacent.

--
bud--

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new Romex?
I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth covered
insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is working well
(was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the box, the lights
were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops. Just for the record
I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to let my hands touch
anything metal; I just didn't realize that the switch I was using was
almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth covered insulation appears
to be in good shape. I like the damage resistance of the BX, but I also
like the higher temperature rating of the new NM-B.

I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the right
answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a separate
ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am definitely replacing
a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch on the stairwell light
and will be replacing a couple lampholders with shop lights (cheap 'n'
sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of the blank plate of the
octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry room and won't be until
*ALL* the wiring is done)

Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
"repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a big
deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor PITA. I know
it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should be acceptable...

Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at the
bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex through
the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces of BX going
into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling space between the
studs) the light would go out, and then when I touched it again it would
come back on. I figured this needed immediate attention, and I just
imagined that I'd find that I'd have to repull all of the runs that
entered the box due to it being fried. Imagine my surprise when I pulled
it down and everything looked fine inside, but when I removed the
lampholder itself the neutral screw was loose. OK, reinstall, works.
Left it dangling from the wires and carefully wiggled the two wire nuts
inside the box. When I wiggled the neutral, the light would flicker. Not
good! removed wire nut, here it didn't have any spiral steel insert and
was very loose on the wires. Some electrician - presumably back in
1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me out 60 years
later... A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and all is working
fine now



I vote for new. When you go to sell the house it will look better to have
new wiring. I don't like working with the cloth covered conductors.

I vote for new. �When you go to sell the house it will look better to have
new wiring. �I don't like working with the cloth covered conductors.- Hide quoted text -


We agree on this........

Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring?
Old BX or new Romex?

My personal preference would be new Romex installed through holes drilled
in the joists (NOT stapled to a beam or the underside of the joists). If
the BX is not stapled in place, you can use the old cable to pull the new
Romex through.

If drilling the joists is not an option, I would use surface mounted PVC
conduit and individual wires.

On the other hand, if the original BX cable is still in good shape, there's
no immediate need to replace it. Just replace it where needed and update
the rest to Romex as time and money allows.

That said, I've heard local codes in some areas require conduit or metallic
shielding for ALL wiring. I think the Chicago area was one of them, but I
don't remember for sure. You might want to check with your local permit
office (and probably get an electrical permit).

I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any;
new NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference?

Lower temperature wiring can be a big problem around light fixtures. The
heat from the light makes the insulation brittle, which flakes off and
leaves exposed conductors. I've worked on lots of lights in old houses that
have completely bare wires, just waiting to start a fire. Kind of scary
when you open it up and see that.

Still, you don't necessarily need to replace the entire run. Just mount a
junction box nearby and run the higher temp Romex from the light to the
junction box. Then tie the old cable into that and join the two cables in
the box. Replace the circuit later when you have the time.

Anthony

HerHusband wrote:
Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring?
Old BX or new Romex?


My personal preference would be new Romex installed through holes drilled
in the joists (NOT stapled to a beam or the underside of the joists). If
the BX is not stapled in place, you can use the old cable to pull the new
Romex through.

If drilling the joists is not an option, I would use surface mounted PVC
conduit and individual wires.

On the other hand, if the original BX cable is still in good shape, there's
no immediate need to replace it. Just replace it where needed and update
the rest to Romex as time and money allows.

That said, I've heard local codes in some areas require conduit or metallic
shielding for ALL wiring. I think the Chicago area was one of them, but I
don't remember for sure. You might want to check with your local permit
office (and probably get an electrical permit).


I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any;
new NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference?


Lower temperature wiring can be a big problem around light fixtures. The
heat from the light makes the insulation brittle, which flakes off and
leaves exposed conductors. I've worked on lots of lights in old houses that
have completely bare wires, just waiting to start a fire. Kind of scary
when you open it up and see that.

Still, you don't necessarily need to replace the entire run. Just mount a
junction box nearby and run the higher temp Romex from the light to the
junction box. Then tie the old cable into that and join the two cables in
the box. Replace the circuit later when you have the time.

Anthony

The way this house was wired, it appears to be one of those areas where
BX was only required in "exposed" areas, that is, the basement. The
rest of the house is non-metallic. I'd actually be happier if the whole
house were BX as at least then it would be grounded, if not well. So I
can replace the BX easily as it only exists in exposed areas.

I have not asked the question yet, but judging by the presence of Romex
all over the place where things have been messed with (some not so well,
and already removed) the requirement for BX in the basement was
apparently lifted long ago. There apparently was a permit pulled for
some renovation about 20 years ago, either kitchen or basement I assume,
so it must have been inspected and passed.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
HerHusband wrote:
Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring?
Old BX or new Romex?


My personal preference would be new Romex installed through holes drilled
in the joists (NOT stapled to a beam or the underside of the joists). If
the BX is not stapled in place, you can use the old cable to pull the new
Romex through.

If drilling the joists is not an option, I would use surface mounted PVC
conduit and individual wires.

On the other hand, if the original BX cable is still in good shape,
there's no immediate need to replace it. Just replace it where needed and
update the rest to Romex as time and money allows.

That said, I've heard local codes in some areas require conduit or
metallic shielding for ALL wiring. I think the Chicago area was one of
them, but I don't remember for sure. You might want to check with your
local permit office (and probably get an electrical permit).


I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference?


Lower temperature wiring can be a big problem around light fixtures. The
heat from the light makes the insulation brittle, which flakes off and
leaves exposed conductors. I've worked on lots of lights in old houses
that have completely bare wires, just waiting to start a fire. Kind of
scary when you open it up and see that.

Still, you don't necessarily need to replace the entire run. Just mount a
junction box nearby and run the higher temp Romex from the light to the
junction box. Then tie the old cable into that and join the two cables in
the box. Replace the circuit later when you have the time.

Anthony

The way this house was wired, it appears to be one of those areas where BX
was only required in "exposed" areas, that is, the basement. The rest of
the house is non-metallic. I'd actually be happier if the whole house
were BX as at least then it would be grounded, if not well. So I can
replace the BX easily as it only exists in exposed areas.

I have not asked the question yet, but judging by the presence of Romex
all over the place where things have been messed with (some not so well,
and already removed) the requirement for BX in the basement was apparently
lifted long ago. There apparently was a permit pulled for some renovation
about 20 years ago, either kitchen or basement I assume, so it must have
been inspected and passed.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

If there is or was any requirement for steel cable in the basement, it was a
local requirement

Nate,

The way this house was wired, it appears to be one of those areas
where BX was only required in "exposed" areas, that is, the basement.

If the cable is "exposed", such as running down a wall to an outlet you
would still need some kind of protection. BX cable would comply, as would
conduit.

Normally, you wouldn't want to run Romex in conduit, as it can build up
heat. But it's allowed by code for short runs for "protection" purposes. I
installed a circuit in my in-laws basement. The main runs are 12/2 romex
running through holes in the joists. Anywhere I had to drop down to an
outlet, I installed a short drop of 3/4" PVC conduit and a surface mount
PVC electrical box. At the top of the conduit I installed a male adapter
and a screw on bushing to protect against chafing.

Anthony

On Feb 26, 2:47*am, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:49:44 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

the two wire nuts inside the box. *When I wiggled the neutral, the light
would flicker. *Not good! *removed wire nut, here it didn't have any
spiral steel insert and was very loose on the wires. *Some electrician -
presumably back in 1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me
out 60 years later... *A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and
all is working fine now

An electrician is supposed to check to be sure the metal spiral is
inside each and every wirenut. *This guy must have been drinking on
the job. *

L:
Maybe there never was a spring. It could be an old porcelain wirenut.
Of course, in that case, the wires should have been twisted tightly
enough
beforehand to make good contact.

That BX and all older cloth coated wire was not as bad as
many people want to make it out to be. I have worked on some that was
70 years old and still in good shape. The biggest problem was the
color came off the white or red. Colored electrical tape helps with
that. If it lasted that long, no one can say it was junk. Will
today's new wire last that long? I guess no one will know until then.
Plastic gets old and dry and will crack in time too.

I wonder about this, too. I have one circuit with some plastic Romex
that
is old enough to have a 16 gauge grounding conductor. It's gotten
pretty
hard over the years - not enough to be brittle...not yet. Of course,
THHN's
nylon jacket should last a very long time, even if the thermoplastic
layer is
compromised.

A P