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#1
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp
breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps.... OTOH.... ? -- Pete Cresswell |
#2
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On 1/25/2014 9:55 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps.... OTOH.... ? The way I was taught it, many years ago, if you have a 20A circuit then every item on the circuit needs to be able to handle 20A -- wires, outlets, switches, etc. Really, what is the difference in cost between #14 and #12 wire? Yeah, it is a bit stiffer and harder to work with but you aren't going to be doing it too often. I always remind myself that if a fire occurs and the insurance inspector shows up I don't want him finding anything stupid that would let the company wriggle out of paying up. |
#3
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps. If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps.... OTOH.... ? -- Pete Cresswell Yes, you're on the right track. |
#4
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote: I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps. That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp. Harry K |
#5
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:06:13 PM UTC-5, Harry K wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote: On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote: I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps. That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp. Harry K Maybe, and I see your point, but AFAIK, it's not a code violation, unless you have a cite that says otherwise. Anyone changing a breaker to a higher rating should only do so after checking everything on it and not just by making assumptions. In the case in question, I don't see all the fuss. I'd just use 12 gauge because it looks like it's about 15 ft of Romex in a garage and as someone pointed out, the cost difference isn't much. |
#6
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
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#7
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 4:23:53 PM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 1/25/2014 10:35 AM, wrote: Maybe, and I see your point, but AFAIK, it's not a code violation, unless you have a cite that says otherwise. Anyone changing a breaker to a higher rating should only do so after checking everything on it and not just by making assumptions. That attitude is exactly why we have one-size-fits-all requirements in the code. People are stupid. Maybe you don't care if the next owner of the house burns it down. What "attitude"? And what "one size fits all" requirement in the NEC are you referring to? Please cite. AFAIK, it's perfectly code compliant to use either 12 gauge wire or 14 gauge wire on a 15 amp breaker. And IDK of any requriement that says if you want to use 12 gauge for a very long run to reduce voltage drop, then install some 15 amp receptacles on the end or some lights, using 14 gauge, that it's not allowed. If you have the section to cite, I'm sure we'd all like to see it. And I'd say that people who are stupid and unqualifed should not be changing breakers in a panel. Because if you operate on that premise, then they could put a 50 amp breaker in and hook 12, 14, or 18 gauge wire to it. |
#8
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:46:53 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), Harry K On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote: On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote: I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps. That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp. Harry K What code is that? The NEC does not address what an unqualified person might do later. NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up. Harry K |
#9
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:06:37 AM UTC-5, Harry K wrote:
On Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:46:53 AM UTC-8, wrote: On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), Harry K On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:07:01 AM UTC-8, wrote: On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:55:33 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote: I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? No, unless you change the breaker to 15 amps. That also should not be code compliant as someone could see the 12 guage wire coming off the breaker and change it back to 20amp. Harry K What code is that? The NEC does not address what an unqualified person might do later. NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up. Harry K The point wasn't what NEC says about who wires it. The point was that NEC doesn't prohibit what you and another poster claim. Give us a cite to where the NEC says that you can't install 12 gauge wire on a 15 amp breaker, then use 14 gauge to extend the run to some lights. AFAIK, there is no such restriction and Gfre apparently agrees. |
#11
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
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#12
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On 1/26/14 10:06 AM, Harry K wrote:
NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up. Harry K The state of Nebraska does though. A homeowner can wire his own stuff. I don't think I could even wire a neighbor's house for free since I don't have a residential license. One can't wire for profit without an appropriate license at least in theory. Inspections aren't required in many areas unless one is replacing the service. There is reciprocity among several states surrounding Nebraska for licensing. |
#13
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:30:53 PM UTC-8, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 1/26/14 10:06 AM, Harry K wrote: NEC code does not even address anything about WHO wires it. Ever hear about getting wiring inspected when selling a house? Violations don't pass no matter who screwed it up. Harry K The state of Nebraska does though. A homeowner can wire his own stuff. I don't think I could even wire a neighbor's house for free since I don't have a residential license. One can't wire for profit without an appropriate license at least in theory. AFAIK _anyone_ can do their own wiring in any state. That they are allowed to do it doesn not speak to doing it right or wrong though. Inspections aren't required in many areas unless one is replacing the service. And when you sell the house, anyone buying without an inspection is a fool. There is reciprocity among several states surrounding Nebraska for licensing. Again doesn't address the point about NEC code requirements. Harry K |
#14
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
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#15
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
wrote in message ... Seriously, there are other books that interpret the arcane language of the code. In fact the first sentence of my cite is from the NEC, the rest is from the NEC handbook, one of those interpretations. That is what most mortals should be buying anyway. It gives you the code, then explains what they are saying. The Handbook is almost required to understand the Code Book. Especially the drawings. I have not looked at a Code Book in a long time, but don't recall any drawings in it to explain the language. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#16
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
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#18
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On 1/25/2014 9:55 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps.... OTOH.... ? As I understand it, at least in Michigan, If you use a 20 amp circuit/breaker, code requires 12 gauge wire. 15 amp requires 14 gauge. Therefore, the 14 gauge would not be code if using on a 20 amp circuit. |
#19
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:55:33 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote: I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? If I were to pick nits, And even if you weren't. I might say "No" because conceivably somebody might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps.... OTOH.... ? |
#20
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:55:33 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote: I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps.... OTOH.... ? *NO*. Every wire on a 20A breaker must be #12 (or thicker). If you use #12 on a 15A breaker, that is perfectly fine. Therefore, if you want to use #14 wire, just change the breaker to a 15A. But I'd just buy the #12 wire and be done with it. The cost of the wire is probably about the same or less than a breaker. |
#21
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:55:33 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote: I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps.... OTOH.... ? *NO*. Every wire on a 20A breaker must be #12 (or thicker). If you use #12 on a 15A breaker, that is perfectly fine. Therefore, if you want to use #14 wire, just change the breaker to a 15A. But I'd just buy the #12 wire and be done with it. The cost of the wire is probably about the same or less than a breaker. +1 times 10 The issue here is that most of us agree that the logical thing to do is just extend the freaking 15 ft circuit with 12 gauge. But the second issue is, if you really wanted to use 14 for the extension, is it code legal to do so, if u change the breaker to 15 amp. AFAIK, and I thingk u agree, per NEC that's OK. There are some here claiming that is not NEC compliant. |
#22
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
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#23
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#14 Romex To Light From #12/20-amp?
" wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:55:33 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote: I've got an outlet box that is fed by #12 Romex backed by a 20-amp breaker. If I were to tap that box to feed a ceiling light, would #14 wire be code-legal for box-to-ceiling-light? If I were to pick nits, I might say "No" because conceivably somebody might plug a load into the ceiling light that exceeded 15 amps.... OTOH.... ? *NO*. Every wire on a 20A breaker must be #12 (or thicker). If you use #12 on a 15A breaker, that is perfectly fine. Therefore, if you want to use #14 wire, just change the breaker to a 15A. But I'd just buy the #12 wire and be done with it. The cost of the wire is probably about the same or less than a breaker. +1 times 10 The issue here is that most of us agree that the logical thing to do is just extend the freaking 15 ft circuit with 12 gauge. But the second issue is, if you really wanted to use 14 for the extension, is it code legal to do so, if u change the breaker to 15 amp. AFAIK, and I thingk u agree, per NEC that's OK. There are some here claiming that is not NEC compliant. Legal or not, that fact should be documented at box. Labeled as such. A house diagram would be really nice. Greg |
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