OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes . This
morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I got a wire
and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now it's once again
producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should have to go thru that every
day , but don't know why it's plugging like that . I burn only oak , white
and red . Unfortunately it's not well seasoned , as I didn't really plan to
heat with wood . Is that maybe why it's plugging ?
This is a King Circulator stove , controlled supposedly by a thermo
spring that opens and closes an inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue
damper today to install , as I'm much more familiar with that method of
control . I just know that we can't continue this overheat then freeze cycle
we've been experiencing .
--
Snag



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"Snag" wrote in message
...
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes . This
morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I got a wire
and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now it's once again
producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should have to go thru that
every day , but don't know why it's plugging like that . I burn only oak ,
white and red . Unfortunately it's not well seasoned , as I didn't really
plan to heat with wood . Is that maybe why it's plugging ?
This is a King Circulator stove , controlled supposedly by a thermo
spring that opens and closes an inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue
damper today to install , as I'm much more familiar with that method of
control . I just know that we can't continue this overheat then freeze
cycle we've been experiencing .
--
Snag

I would be cautious about a flue damper as they can cause problems. A fire
that is burning well will find a way to get the smoke to get out the stove
if you try closing the flue, and it may smoke out the room. I understand
that a flue damper is used when cold to reduce downdrafts that result in
smelly air being drawn down the chimney, or when hot to reduce a strong
updraft that is causing the fire to burn excessively hot.

EXT wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message
...
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes .
This morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I
got a wire and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now
it's once again producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should
have to go thru that every day , but don't know why it's plugging
like that . I burn only oak , white and red . Unfortunately it's not
well seasoned , as I didn't really plan to heat with wood . Is that
maybe why it's plugging ? This is a King Circulator stove ,
controlled supposedly by a thermo spring that opens and closes an
inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue damper today to install ,
as I'm much more familiar with that method of control . I just know
that we can't continue this overheat then freeze cycle we've been
experiencing . --
Snag

I would be cautious about a flue damper as they can cause problems. A
fire that is burning well will find a way to get the smoke to get out
the stove if you try closing the flue, and it may smoke out the room.
I understand that a flue damper is used when cold to reduce
downdrafts that result in smelly air being drawn down the chimney, or
when hot to reduce a strong updraft that is causing the fire to burn
excessively hot.


This stove has gaskets on both the fire box door and on the door to access
the ash pan . It seals up very well , I don't expect any smoke problems from
adding a flue damper too .
--
Snag



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On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 08:26:43 -0700, Snag wrote:

...snip...
This stove has gaskets on both the fire box door and on the door to
access
the ash pan . It seals up very well , I don't expect any smoke problems
from
adding a flue damper too .

seems the best way to control the heat is through the air supply, up
through the ash box.

RobertMacy wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 08:26:43 -0700, Snag wrote:

...snip...
This stove has gaskets on both the fire box door and on the door to
access
the ash pan . It seals up very well , I don't expect any smoke
problems from
adding a flue damper too .

seems the best way to control the heat is through the air supply, up
through the ash box.


Well , that is the design intent , but it ain't workin' like I would
think - as in close the inlet and it gets cooler . Seems that when I turn it
"down" it gets hotter . I think that this might be because it's holding the
heat in the stove instead of letting it out the flue pipe , but shouldn't
restricting air flow also cool the fire somewhat ? This thing is oversize
for our current heated area and I knew that when I bought it great deal ,
200 bucks including everything needed to hook it up but I expected to be
able to regulate the output much better . I hate opening a window to cool
things off , that's just throwing heat away and I don't like cutting and
splitting wood just to toss the heat out the window .
--
Snag



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On 12/27/2013 9:42 AM, Snag wrote:
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes . This
morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I got a wire
and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now it's once again
producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should have to go thru that every
day , but don't know why it's plugging like that . I burn only oak , white
and red . Unfortunately it's not well seasoned , as I didn't really plan to
heat with wood . Is that maybe why it's plugging ?
This is a King Circulator stove , controlled supposedly by a thermo
spring that opens and closes an inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue
damper today to install , as I'm much more familiar with that method of
control . I just know that we can't continue this overheat then freeze cycle
we've been experiencing .
--
Snag

Rather than a flue damper, maybe you need a flue brush. You mention the
wood is not too well seasoned. If that is the case, it may be putting
some creosote in the flue and is hampering the fire from lack of
circulation. If the stove is capable of generating a lot of heat, the
fix is not to add a flue damper, it is to fix the real problem.

You may be getting more ash and clog because the fire is not as hot as
it potentially can be. Check the flue all the way out. Keep some wood
near the stove so it can dry a bit faster for the next load.

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 08:49:17 -0700, Snag wrote:

...snip...
Well , that is the design intent , but it ain't workin' like I would
think - as in close the inlet and it gets cooler . Seems that when I
turn it
"down" it gets hotter . I think that this might be because it's holding
the
heat in the stove instead of letting it out the flue pipe , but shouldn't
restricting air flow also cool the fire somewhat ? This thing is oversize
for our current heated area and I knew that when I bought it great deal
,
200 bucks including everything needed to hook it up but I expected to be
able to regulate the output much better . I hate opening a window to cool
things off , that's just throwing heat away and I don't like cutting and
splitting wood just to toss the heat out the window .

Hot is transitory. Long term cooler.

On Friday, December 27, 2013 6:42:31 AM UTC-8, Snag wrote:
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes . This

morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I got a wire

and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now it's once again

producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should have to go thru that every

day , but don't know why it's plugging like that . I burn only oak , white

and red . Unfortunately it's not well seasoned , as I didn't really plan to

heat with wood . Is that maybe why it's plugging ?

This is a King Circulator stove , controlled supposedly by a thermo

spring that opens and closes an inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue

damper today to install , as I'm much more familiar with that method of

control . I just know that we can't continue this overheat then freeze cycle

we've been experiencing .


I thought I had the only one of those still operating. My thermostat never worked from day one. It is either all open or all closed as selected by the operator.

Ashes through grate: I have the same problem when burning Willow and Box elder. The ash is too light and fluffy to go through the grate on their own. I used the poker or the side of th ash shovel to rake them down occasionally. burning Black Locust the ash is heavier and goes down by itself.

Burning wood is not a "fire and forget" operation. One needs to keep an eye on it and make adjustments often or get run out of the house by heat (or freeze, my wife thinks 80* is "chilly").

Harry K

On 12/27/2013 08:42 AM, Snag wrote:
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes . This
morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I got a wire
and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now it's once again
producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should have to go thru that every
day , but don't know why it's plugging like that . I burn only oak , white
and red . Unfortunately it's not well seasoned , as I didn't really plan to
heat with wood . Is that maybe why it's plugging ?
This is a King Circulator stove , controlled supposedly by a thermo
spring that opens and closes an inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue
damper today to install , as I'm much more familiar with that method of
control . I just know that we can't continue this overheat then freeze cycle
we've been experiencing .



You need to use seasoned wood and keep your flue cleaned.

If you don't take such common sense measures you will end up with a fire
in the flue and burn your whole place down.


As to the grate: Yes you have to keep it clean.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/27/2013 9:42 AM, Snag wrote:
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes .
This morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I
got a wire and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now
it's once again producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should
have to go thru that every day , but don't know why it's plugging
like that . I burn only oak , white and red . Unfortunately it's not
well seasoned , as I didn't really plan to heat with wood . Is that
maybe why it's plugging ? This is a King Circulator stove ,
controlled supposedly by a thermo spring that opens and closes an
inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue damper today to install ,
as I'm much more familiar with that method of control . I just know
that we can't continue this overheat then freeze cycle we've been
experiencing . --
Snag

Rather than a flue damper, maybe you need a flue brush. You mention
the wood is not too well seasoned. If that is the case, it may be
putting some creosote in the flue and is hampering the fire from lack
of circulation. If the stove is capable of generating a lot of heat,
the fix is not to add a flue damper, it is to fix the real problem.

You may be getting more ash and clog because the fire is not as hot as
it potentially can be. Check the flue all the way out. Keep some
wood near the stove so it can dry a bit faster for the next load.


The flue is clean all the way to the top . The used pipe was thoroughly
cleaned before I installed it . Your observation that the fire isn't as hot
as it should be may have merit , however . I do know the stove is capable of
massive output , my neighbor up the hill has an identical stove and it heats
his whole house nicely .
Maybe my solution is to feed it less and more often ? I know that Patrick
neighbor loads his up and turns the control all the way to "cool" and has
no problems like the one I'm having - and night before last I did just that
and we were toasty-warm all night . Last night I did the same and it was way
cooler than I wanted this morning . Mama wasn't happy ...
And my wood is stacked about 3 feet from the stove , for just the reason
you suggested that . I just hope I get this thing under control before the
wife strangles me !
--
Snag



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philo wrote:
On 12/27/2013 08:42 AM, Snag wrote:
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes .
This morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I
got a wire and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now
it's once again producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should
have to go thru that every day , but don't know why it's plugging
like that . I burn only oak , white and red . Unfortunately it's not
well seasoned , as I didn't really plan to heat with wood . Is that
maybe why it's plugging ? This is a King Circulator stove ,
controlled supposedly by a thermo spring that opens and closes an
inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue damper today to install ,
as I'm much more familiar with that method of control . I just know
that we can't continue this overheat then freeze cycle we've been
experiencing .


You need to use seasoned wood and keep your flue cleaned.

Did you miss the part where I said this was a late-breaking decision ?
Next year we'll be using seasoned wood , this year it's whatever I can get -
a few trees I cut for the construction cut abt 3 mo ago and standing dead
trees from the woods around us . And the flue IS clean .

If you don't take such common sense measures you will end up with a
fire in the flue and burn your whole place down.

I've seen a flue fire , believe me when I say that ain't likely to happen
, because I'm monitoring the creosote buildup . None to speak of so far ,
but we've only been using the stove for about 2 weeks .


As to the grate: Yes you have to keep it clean.

I'm new to thuis type of stove , last wood burner I used was a potbelly
stove with a grate you shook . Looks like I'll have to fab some implements
....
--
Snag



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"Snag" wrote in message
...
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes . This
morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I got a wire
and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now it's once again
producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should have to go thru that
every day , but don't know why it's plugging like that . I burn only oak ,
white and red . Unfortunately it's not well seasoned , as I didn't really
plan to heat with wood . Is that maybe why it's plugging ?
This is a King Circulator stove , controlled supposedly by a thermo
spring that opens and closes an inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue
damper today to install , as I'm much more familiar with that method of
control . I just know that we can't continue this overheat then freeze
cycle we've been experiencing .


When burning wood, most or all of the air is supposed to go overthe top of
the fire.
Grates are for burning coal.

On 12/27/2013 10:34 AM, Snag wrote:
philo wrote:
On 12/27/2013 08:42 AM, Snag wrote:
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes .
This morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I
got a wire and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now
it's once again producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should
have to go thru that every day , but don't know why it's plugging
like that . I burn only oak , white and red . Unfortunately it's not
well seasoned , as I didn't really plan to heat with wood . Is that
maybe why it's plugging ? This is a King Circulator stove ,
controlled supposedly by a thermo spring that opens and closes an
inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue damper today to install ,
as I'm much more familiar with that method of control . I just know
that we can't continue this overheat then freeze cycle we've been
experiencing .


You need to use seasoned wood and keep your flue cleaned.

Did you miss the part where I said this was a late-breaking decision ?
Next year we'll be using seasoned wood , this year it's whatever I can get -
a few trees I cut for the construction cut abt 3 mo ago and standing dead
trees from the woods around us . And the flue IS clean .


I figured it was better to err on the side of caution


If you don't take such common sense measures you will end up with a
fire in the flue and burn your whole place down.

I've seen a flue fire , believe me when I say that ain't likely to happen
, because I'm monitoring the creosote buildup . None to speak of so far ,
but we've only been using the stove for about 2 weeks .


As to the grate: Yes you have to keep it clean.

I'm new to thuis type of stove , last wood burner I used was a potbelly
stove with a grate you shook . Looks like I'll have to fab some implements
...



I do not have a wood burner myself but have a good friend who I see
often and it's his sole source of heat. I don't know if he cleans the
grate every single day...but he does have to clean it often.

As a matter of fact, I am heading over there in a little bit.

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 09:05:25 -0700, Harry K wrote:

....snip....
Burning wood is not a "fire and forget" operation. One needs to keep an
eye on it and make adjustments often or get run out of the house by heat
(or freeze, my wife thinks 80* is "chilly").

Harry K

Tell her she's right! Below 78, we freeze here.

Actually dry air gives a sense of being cold in a 'hot' room.

The absolutely BEST heat [at least to me] is glowing, radiant heat like a
fireplace, or Markel electric heater provides. You sit near and you're
warm. Get up and move about, the air is cooling and refreshing. Yep, best
of both worlds.

I talked to my friend who uses wood heat and he said that if the wood is
not well seasoned a once a day cleaning sound in order. He burns
seasoned hardwood and has to clean it every two days...but he says some
of his friends can go a bit longer.

His wood burner does not have a grate beneath the logs but merely a 4"
(or so) hole and an ash collector below. I suppose if I were more clever
I could even think of a joke.

harryagain wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message
...
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes .
This morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I
got a wire and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now
it's once again producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should
have to go thru that every day , but don't know why it's plugging
like that . I burn only oak , white and red . Unfortunately it's not
well seasoned , as I didn't really plan to heat with wood . Is that
maybe why it's plugging ? This is a King Circulator stove ,
controlled supposedly by a thermo spring that opens and closes an
inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue damper today to install ,
as I'm much more familiar with that method of control . I just know
that we can't continue this overheat then freeze cycle we've been
experiencing .


When burning wood, most or all of the air is supposed to go overthe
top of the fire.

You'll forgive me for disgreeing with you ... it's been my experience that
the best fires have plenty of space between the logs/splits for air flow .

Grates are for burning coal.

Well for sure they are good for that . As far as grates in wood stoves ,
we've had them in one form or another just about forever ... andirons for
example .
--
Snag



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Snag wrote:
RobertMacy wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 08:26:43 -0700, Snag wrote:

...snip...
This stove has gaskets on both the fire box door and on the door
to access
the ash pan . It seals up very well , I don't expect any smoke
problems from
adding a flue damper too .

seems the best way to control the heat is through the air supply, up
through the ash box.


Well , that is the design intent , but it ain't workin' like I would
think - as in close the inlet and it gets cooler . Seems that when I
turn it "down" it gets hotter . I think that this might be because
it's holding the heat in the stove instead of letting it out the flue
pipe , but shouldn't restricting air flow also cool the fire somewhat
? This thing is oversize for our current heated area and I knew that
when I bought it great deal , 200 bucks including everything needed
to hook it up but I expected to be able to regulate the output much
better . I hate opening a window to cool things off , that's just
throwing heat away and I don't like cutting and splitting wood just
to toss the heat out the window .

My certified insert is at it's hottest once it gets hot enough to really get the
secondary burn going and shut the air down to the minimum. Then it contains the
heat gets even hotter, and really burns effectively even with the minimum air
and no smoke. The entire firebox will be filled with slow moving flame. That's
the way it's designed to work, I'm sure.

Too big of a stove can make running it cleanly difficult.

On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 10:27:21 -0600, "Snag" wrote:





The flue is clean all the way to the top . The used pipe was thoroughly
cleaned before I installed it .

Good, that eliminates one part of the potential problem.


Your observation that the fire isn't as hot
as it should be may have merit , however . I do know the stove is capable of
massive output , my neighbor up the hill has an identical stove and it heats
his whole house nicely .
Maybe my solution is to feed it less and more often ? I know that Patrick
neighbor loads his up and turns the control all the way to "cool" and has
no problems like the one I'm having - and night before last I did just that
and we were toasty-warm all night . Last night I did the same and it was way
cooler than I wanted this morning . Mama wasn't happy ...
And my wood is stacked about 3 feet from the stove , for just the reason
you suggested that . I just hope I get this thing under control before the
wife strangles me !

Getting a good fire going is important. If this is your first
experience, it will take some time to get things right. Start out
with about 1/4 to 1/3 full and get the fire going well. Once heated,
add a bit more wood to fill it to no more than 1/2 to 2/3 full. The
fire will use some of its energy to get the new wood dried and heated,
ready to burn. Then you can finally fill it up for the night.

Since the wood is near the stove, over time it will dry more and be
easier to burn, but that can take a couple of weeks. Never try to
burn one big log. If you watch two logs, they sort of feed off of
each other for a good burn.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013 10:27:21 -0600, "Snag" wrote:





The flue is clean all the way to the top . The used pipe was
thoroughly cleaned before I installed it .

Good, that eliminates one part of the potential problem.


Your observation that the fire isn't as hot
as it should be may have merit , however . I do know the stove is
capable of massive output , my neighbor up the hill has an identical
stove and it heats his whole house nicely .
Maybe my solution is to feed it less and more often ? I know that
Patrick neighbor loads his up and turns the control all the way to
"cool" and has no problems like the one I'm having - and night
before last I did just that and we were toasty-warm all night . Last
night I did the same and it was way cooler than I wanted this
morning . Mama wasn't happy ... And my wood is stacked about 3 feet
from the stove , for just the reason you suggested that . I just
hope I get this thing under control before the wife strangles me !

Getting a good fire going is important. If this is your first
experience, it will take some time to get things right. Start out
with about 1/4 to 1/3 full and get the fire going well. Once heated,
add a bit more wood to fill it to no more than 1/2 to 2/3 full. The
fire will use some of its energy to get the new wood dried and heated,
ready to burn. Then you can finally fill it up for the night.

That makes sense . That way all the heat doesn't go into heating/drying
the fuel .

Since the wood is near the stove, over time it will dry more and be
easier to burn, but that can take a couple of weeks. Never try to
burn one big log. If you watch two logs, they sort of feed off of
each other for a good burn.

I tried one big log before I added the hallway into the camper , didn't
work out so well but then we weren't depending on the stove for heat . Now
I'm splitting anything ove about 6" diameter , bigger gets quartered . I
hesitate to split it too small , because I don't really know how small is
"too small" . Most of the firewood is stacked outside , I guess I need a
larger inside pile . I'm going to concentrate on standing dead trees as much
as I can the rest of this winter , and plan better for next year . I had
seriously considered using electricity to heat this year , but after seeing
last month's bill I'm glad I went wood . More work , but then I have more
time than anything else . In about 6 weeks I'll be able to draw SS , which
will help keep the wolf at the door at bay ... and a damn good thing ,
because when tourist season is over up here everything else gets really slow
too .
--
Snag



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On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:52:37 -0600, "Snag" wrote:




That makes sense . That way all the heat doesn't go into heating/drying
the fuel .

Since the wood is near the stove, over time it will dry more and be
easier to burn, but that can take a couple of weeks. Never try to
burn one big log. If you watch two logs, they sort of feed off of
each other for a good burn.

I tried one big log before I added the hallway into the camper , didn't
work out so well but then we weren't depending on the stove for heat . Now
I'm splitting anything ove about 6" diameter , bigger gets quartered . I
hesitate to split it too small , because I don't really know how small is
"too small" . Most of the firewood is stacked outside , I guess I need a
larger inside pile . I'm going to concentrate on standing dead trees as much
as I can the rest of this winter , and plan better for next year .

I think you are on your way to running a good hot stove. The more
inside time for the wood, the better. It will add needed humidity to
the living area and dry the wood for a better burn. Just watch out
for bugs as they can come out of dormancy when warmed.

I found that a mix of small and large logs works best as the small
ones burned easily while heating the larger ones. It may take you a
couple of weeks to get it figured out, but you will as you try things
and see how they work.

As an experiment, put aside a half dozen pieces of wood for at least a
few weeks to a month. You'll see the difference in that time. Use
them on a really cold day at the end of January or in February.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:52:37 -0600, "Snag" wrote:




That makes sense . That way all the heat doesn't go into
heating/drying the fuel .

Since the wood is near the stove, over time it will dry more and be
easier to burn, but that can take a couple of weeks. Never try to
burn one big log. If you watch two logs, they sort of feed off of
each other for a good burn.

I tried one big log before I added the hallway into the camper ,
didn't work out so well but then we weren't depending on the stove
for heat . Now I'm splitting anything ove about 6" diameter , bigger
gets quartered . I hesitate to split it too small , because I don't
really know how small is "too small" . Most of the firewood is
stacked outside , I guess I need a larger inside pile . I'm going to
concentrate on standing dead trees as much as I can the rest of this
winter , and plan better for next year .

I think you are on your way to running a good hot stove. The more
inside time for the wood, the better. It will add needed humidity to
the living area and dry the wood for a better burn. Just watch out
for bugs as they can come out of dormancy when warmed.

I found that a mix of small and large logs works best as the small
ones burned easily while heating the larger ones. It may take you a
couple of weeks to get it figured out, but you will as you try things
and see how they work.

As an experiment, put aside a half dozen pieces of wood for at least a
few weeks to a month. You'll see the difference in that time. Use
them on a really cold day at the end of January or in February.

Gotta gloat a little here , got a free chainsaw last night . It's a 14"
Homelite , the giver said it hasn't been run in 13 yerars ... when I got it
home last night I poured a couple of drops of gas in the spark plug hole and
it fired on the first pull ... and died . So today I cleaned up the carb and
this sucker runs like a champ . It's so old it doesn't even have a hand
guard much less a chain brake .
So instead of framing up the bathroom this morning I've been cuttin' and
splittin' wood . One of the logs I chopped up has been on top of a pile of
stuff for 10 years and it's still mostly sound . Since it's dry I only split
it into halves except the part that was like 15" in diameter . Also cut and
split a couple of 8 foot logs that I cut down to make room for the house .
This afternoon I'll be looking for standing dead wood that's not too far
gone .
Ed , I really appreciate the advice . You've helped me understand the
dynamics of wood stoves and how to get the heat we need .
--
Snag



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On 12/27/2013 9:26 AM, Snag wrote:
EXT wrote:
I would be cautious about a flue damper as they can cause problems. A
fire that is burning well will find a way to get the smoke to get out
the stove if you try closing the flue, and it may smoke out the room.
I understand that a flue damper is used when cold to reduce
downdrafts that result in smelly air being drawn down the chimney, or
when hot to reduce a strong updraft that is causing the fire to burn
excessively hot.


This stove has gaskets on both the fire box door and on the door to access
the ash pan . It seals up very well , I don't expect any smoke problems from
adding a flue damper too .

I'm sure that it does, Snag, but stop for a minute and think this through...

From where does the stove draw it's combustion air? Correct the first
time, THE ROOM. It isn't drawing it down the flue and then shooting the
smoke and waste gases up that same flue.

If you choke off the flue when the fire's burning, you're going to be
venting those gases back into the room.

On 12/28/2013 1:21 PM, Snag wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:52:37 -0600, "Snag" wrote:

Ed , I really appreciate the advice . You've helped me understand the
dynamics of wood stoves and how to get the heat we need .


As Ed has advised, it takes awhile before you get the hang of it. It's
not much of a curve but there is a curve. We have a 25+ year old Kent
Tile Fire stove from New Zealand. You can see it on the internet with a
search but they are no longer imported into the USA. Best way to
describe it is a sheet steel (5/16" or 3/8") box with a double/triple
wall around the exterior. The firebox can be cooking away at 500-600
degrees (flue temp might hit 180) and you can put your hand on the back
of the stove (triple wall there) and it's merely warm.

The double walls on side and triple to the rear create very good air
circulation in the room via convection. No fan necessary on the stove,
just the ceiling fan in the room (24' x 26') to stir the air and bring
it down from the cathedral ceiling.

The damn thing has a big glass door so you can see the fire burning.
It's like watching it on televisiong. We wind up having to clean the
glass only once or twice per season since the air flow in the stove's
design tends to keep it sparkling clear.

Note: if you have a glass window on your stove that gets dirty, before
you buy some fancy cleaner - like we once did - take a paper towel, wet
it, dip it in the ash and rub it on the (cold) glass. Finish with a
clean, damp paper towel. Cleans it like a champ.

Took a bit but we learned rather quickly to start small and work up.
Once you get a good sized chunk burning in there, you can load it up,
cut back the air flow and it'll stay nice and warm all night. We load
it up for the night around 10PM with the equivalent of maybe 4 7" logs
split in half that are your standard 16"-17" long and cut the damper way
back. That keeps the house warm all night and leaves us with a great
bed of glowing coals at 6:30AM or so that we toss a couple more pieces
on and we again have a roaring fire in 10-15 minutes.

BTW, IIRC, the owners manual on our stove specifically stated to never
use a grate. They recommend that when you clean it out - typically for
us is about once every 5 or 6 days - you leave an inch of ash in the bottom.

On 12/27/2013 7:42 AM, Snag wrote:
OK , the stove produces massive quantities of heat - sometimes . This
morning it wasn't doing so great , like it couldn't breath . I got a wire
and cleaned the ashes from the grate from below , and now it's once again
producing a lot of heat . I don't think I should have to go thru that every
day , but don't know why it's plugging like that . I burn only oak , white
and red . Unfortunately it's not well seasoned , as I didn't really plan to
heat with wood . Is that maybe why it's plugging ?
This is a King Circulator stove , controlled supposedly by a thermo
spring that opens and closes an inlet damper . I plan on picking up a flue
damper today to install , as I'm much more familiar with that method of
control . I just know that we can't continue this overheat then freeze cycle
we've been experiencing .
--
Snag

I have two wood burning stoves, one at the house, and one at the cabin.
I will soon have one at the shop.

They are simple devices, yet not maintenance free. A good practice is
to empty the ashes when they get a couple of inches deep, the deep being
up to where it interferes with the air intake for the bottom draft. You
can make a small shovel out of sheet metal, or find one at a yard sale.
It is also good (!) to vacuum the bottom inlet very well with a
implement that can get in there and get the dust. It will look clean
after you have shoveled all the ashes, but that little bit in the hard
to get area might be what is messing you up. A blaster will clean it
out, but that would only be in a shop environment. Inside you can use
an air nozzle, and have a shop vac going, but you will only get some of
the dust, and the rest usually settles on SWMBO's best antiques and
collectibles, don't ask me why.

As for the damper, it has different functions. The main one is to
regulate the fire so that all the heat does not go out the chimney. It
is a fine balance between the top and bottom draft so your fire burns
long and hot. Once you find that point, it is easy to remember.

Chimney and flue pipe cleaning is proportional to the type of wood and
amount. Different woods produce different amounts of soot, and that
soot has differing amounts of residual flammables in it, and a buildup
can cause a flue fire. Check the facts on the woods you burn. Around
here, cottonwood and aspen are good, so is juniper. Pine of any species
has lots of pitch, and I have seen some hellatious looking fires in the
stove being fed from pitch coming out of the log, sounding like a
blowtorch, and approaching scary.

Cleaning just depends on your setup, but it is good to run a brush
through there once a year at least, or have it professionally done. I
have to do the one at the cabin this year, and I have to go get two sets
of scaffold jacks so I can get way up the pipe to make entry. (A-frame
setup on that end.) The roof is like 45 degrees or more, and I don't
climb any more. I am going to check out having someone do it, cuz by
the time I do all that, I coulda paid someone. My time is very valuable
nowadays, and I don't bounce as well as I used to.

Making this short by putting the answer at the end, I bet if you vacuum
out the air passages on the bottom of the stove more frequently, it
would work better. Mine sure does, and I can notice it burns entirely
different when it is clean. I had to make a small little device to get
in there for my Eureka Mighty Mite. Also, fire ash will stop up your
filter very quickly in a vacuum, so clean it after you use it for ashes.
I have a galvanized bucket with lid, probably 6 gal. that I put ashes
in. Never assume they are out, put the bucket somewhere safe for a
couple of days, then spread the ashes in your garden or yard. Some
plants do well with ashes, check your local nursery.

Let us know how it shakes out.

Steve

On 12/27/2013 7:57 AM, EXT wrote:


I would be cautious about a flue damper as they can cause problems. A
fire that is burning well will find a way to get the smoke to get out
the stove if you try closing the flue, and it may smoke out the room. I
understand that a flue damper is used when cold to reduce downdrafts
that result in smelly air being drawn down the chimney, or when hot to
reduce a strong updraft that is causing the fire to burn excessively hot.

Partially right. Downdrafts have a cause. Identify that cause, and
solve it, and you will get rid of the smoking. Sometimes, just opening
a door to the outside can cause a downdraft. If enough smoke comes out
to smoke out the room, you have waited too long to address the problem,
the flue may be plugged, or as I said, a door or window is open
somewhere. Or, could be the configuration of the house, or the height of
the top of the chimney in relation to other parts of the structure that
cause vortexes that can work against exhausting gases. Also, it takes a
little while for the stove to get hot, and for the natural heating of
air and steel to create the natural updraft of warm air.

A word of caution here. Watch your chimney cap. Birds will nest in
there during the warmer months, and you won't know until you build a
fire. The birds will take off, but the nest will be there, creating
some blockage. I have a pipe, and I put hardware cloth around it so
they can't get in there. They like nesting in there.

Steve

On 12/27/2013 8:26 AM, Snag wrote:


This stove has gaskets on both the fire box door and on the door to access
the ash pan . It seals up very well , I don't expect any smoke problems from
adding a flue damper too .



If you don't have a flue damper, get one. It will greatly improve the
performance of your stove, and your firewood won't burn up as fast.
Once you find the right settings, your wood will burn long and hot and
slow.

On 12/27/2013 8:49 AM, Snag wrote:
This thing is oversize
for our current heated area and I knew that when I bought it great deal ,
200 bucks including everything needed to hook it up but I expected to be
able to regulate the output much better .


Did they put in a damper? Have you called them and asked them to come
check it out? They are usually pretty good about that, as it covers
their *** should something not be just right. Wood stoves are simple,
unless something basic has been overlooked, and that is possible.

Steve

On 12/28/2013 1:33 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote

From where does the stove draw it's combustion air? Correct the first
time, THE ROOM. It isn't drawing it down the flue and then shooting the
smoke and waste gases up that same flue.

If you choke off the flue when the fire's burning, you're going to be
venting those gases back into the room.

Right - o. Some stoves use a two pipe chimney pipe, the outer annulus
brings in air for combustion, the inner takes out the exhaust. They
have an adjustment so room air can be added to the fire, but it uses
very little room air, hence are very efficient. I found out about them
after I built a house with a two sided see through fireplace, which was
a beautiful nightmare. Looked beautiful with it's Apache Paint stone,
one from Arizona with blue stringers of copper ore, and some copper
colored stringers of some other element. Never did get it burning
right, though. Sealed up the used brick side with a glass fireplace
cover, and a lot of caulking and ingenuity. The other side was too
uneven with no flat surface. Had to open a window to use it, and that
defeated any using of the fireplace to heat the place. Had I kept the
house, I would have installed an insert that drew outside air for
combustion.

Steve

On 12/28/2013 12:21 PM, Snag wrote:

Gotta gloat a little here , got a free chainsaw last night . It's a 14"
Homelite , the giver said it hasn't been run in 13 yerars ... when I got it
home last night I poured a couple of drops of gas in the spark plug hole and
it fired on the first pull ... and died . So today I cleaned up the carb and
this sucker runs like a champ . It's so old it doesn't even have a hand
guard much less a chain brake .
So instead of framing up the bathroom this morning I've been cuttin' and
splittin' wood . One of the logs I chopped up has been on top of a pile of
stuff for 10 years and it's still mostly sound . Since it's dry I only split
it into halves except the part that was like 15" in diameter . Also cut and
split a couple of 8 foot logs that I cut down to make room for the house .
This afternoon I'll be looking for standing dead wood that's not too far
gone .
Ed , I really appreciate the advice . You've helped me understand the
dynamics of wood stoves and how to get the heat we need .

A new chainsaw is on the event horizon for me, a Husky 455 or 460 with a
24" bar. Got a 435 now with a 16" bar, but we just landed a deal with a
guy who has 20 acres of juniper (HOT burning) that was burned slightly
in a wildfire, just enough to burn the hair off the bark. The 435 will
do good for most of it, but some of it is really hefty, and I will need
a longer bar. Besides, I need one for some of the larger trees we get
into. The owner had it all bulldozed, and it has been sitting for a
year now. Soon as the mud dries up, we will be on it. We have been
dolling our trailers up, adding toolboxes, and tie downs and all, and
we're good to go. I have not heard a lot of good on newer Homelites,
but have heard good on older ones. Run it a little oily on the gas.
Get a couple of extra plugs. Better to be a little smoky, and not lean
it out and smoke the engine.

Steve

On 12/27/2013 9:08 AM, philo wrote:


You need to use seasoned wood and keep your flue cleaned.

I know a lot of people don't, but I keep my firewood covered. It can
soak up a lot of water quick, and if you have it all nice and seasoned
and dry, it will suck up a lot of water with a few days of light rain.
Tarps work okay. Something permanent works better. I have a fifteen
foot by thirty foot steel awning on the side of the house that covers
the wood racks and the propane tank, and garden "stuff".

Steve

SteveB wrote:
On 12/27/2013 8:49 AM, Snag wrote:
This thing is oversize
for our current heated area and I knew that when I bought it great
deal , 200 bucks including everything needed to hook it up but I
expected to be able to regulate the output much better .


Did they put in a damper? Have you called them and asked them to come
check it out? They are usually pretty good about that, as it covers
their *** should something not be just right. Wood stoves are simple,
unless something basic has been overlooked, and that is possible.

Steve

Bought it used from a neighbor , I did the install . The stove works fine
, I just need to learn how to use it . I believe the knee of the learning
curve is in sight ...
--
Snag



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SteveB wrote:
On 12/27/2013 8:26 AM, Snag wrote:


This stove has gaskets on both the fire box door and on the door
to access the ash pan . It seals up very well , I don't expect any
smoke problems from adding a flue damper too .



If you don't have a flue damper, get one. It will greatly improve the
performance of your stove, and your firewood won't burn up as fast.
Once you find the right settings, your wood will burn long and hot and
slow.

Actually , the inlet damper does the same thing . And it's controlled by
position/bimetal spring temperature .
--
Snag



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SteveB wrote:
On 12/27/2013 7:57 AM, EXT wrote:


I would be cautious about a flue damper as they can cause problems. A
fire that is burning well will find a way to get the smoke to get out
the stove if you try closing the flue, and it may smoke out the
room. I understand that a flue damper is used when cold to reduce
downdrafts that result in smelly air being drawn down the chimney,
or when hot to reduce a strong updraft that is causing the fire to
burn excessively hot.

Partially right. Downdrafts have a cause. Identify that cause, and
solve it, and you will get rid of the smoking. Sometimes, just
opening a door to the outside can cause a downdraft. If enough smoke
comes out to smoke out the room, you have waited too long to address
the problem, the flue may be plugged, or as I said, a door or window
is open somewhere. Or, could be the configuration of the house, or
the height of the top of the chimney in relation to other parts of
the structure that cause vortexes that can work against exhausting
gases. Also, it takes a little while for the stove to get hot, and
for the natural heating of air and steel to create the natural
updraft of warm air.
A word of caution here. Watch your chimney cap. Birds will nest in
there during the warmer months, and you won't know until you build a
fire. The birds will take off, but the nest will be there, creating
some blockage. I have a pipe, and I put hardware cloth around it so
they can't get in there. They like nesting in there.

Steve

My cap has a "screen" of stainless steel , holes in a piece of thin flat
stock . Small enough that I can't get a finger thru .
--
Snag



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On 12/28/2013 6:13 PM, Snag wrote:

Bought it used from a neighbor , I did the install . The stove works fine
, I just need to learn how to use it . I believe the knee of the learning
curve is in sight ...

I think you will eventually need a damper ...............

It really lets you fine tune your flame. Don't know your type of stove.
Maybe it's in the directions?

Steve

SteveB wrote:
On 12/28/2013 6:13 PM, Snag wrote:

Bought it used from a neighbor , I did the install . The stove
works fine , I just need to learn how to use it . I believe the knee
of the learning curve is in sight ...

I think you will eventually need a damper ...............

It really lets you fine tune your flame. Don't know your type of
stove. Maybe it's in the directions?

Steve

The stove is a King Circulator , and since I got it used there are no
directions . My neighbor up the hill across the little dirt road has one
just like it , he hasn't got a flue damper either . By starting a bit
earlier in the day and getting a good hot fire before stoking it up for the
night I managed to keep it above 70* here all night last night . Feels good
! and the humidity that's plagued us in the camper is way down now that
we're using wood .
--
Snag



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On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 08:01:16 -0600, "Snag" wrote:

SteveB wrote:
On 12/28/2013 6:13 PM, Snag wrote:

Bought it used from a neighbor , I did the install . The stove
works fine , I just need to learn how to use it . I believe the knee
of the learning curve is in sight ...

I think you will eventually need a damper ...............

It really lets you fine tune your flame. Don't know your type of
stove. Maybe it's in the directions?

Steve

The stove is a King Circulator , and since I got it used there are no
directions . My neighbor up the hill across the little dirt road has one
just like it , he hasn't got a flue damper either . By starting a bit
earlier in the day and getting a good hot fire before stoking it up for the
night I managed to keep it above 70* here all night last night . Feels good
! and the humidity that's plagued us in the camper is way down now that
we're using wood .

The wood stove in our VT house didn't have a flue damper. I believe
it's pretty common for wood stoves to be regulated on the (air) supply
side.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 10:17:46 -0500, wrote:



I think you will eventually need a damper ...............

It really lets you fine tune your flame. Don't know your type of
stove. Maybe it's in the directions?

Steve



The wood stove in our VT house didn't have a flue damper. I believe
it's pretty common for wood stoves to be regulated on the (air) supply
side.

I've been running a Vermont Casting stove for 30+ years with no
damper. Properly designed, the supply side can fine tune very well.
It maintains the temperature within a couple of degrees and I rarely
have to change it.