So this is your country of brotherly love, eh?

This is your true nature. This is the real face of america and
americans.

Thieving from each other, especially in times of natural disaster, urban
mining, even killing for no reason. That is - when you're not spying on
each other.

By the way, how are your guns protecting your electronic privacy?

Your privacy is being stolen from you by your gov't, and your guns and
your right to bear arms are doing exactly nothing to enforce those
rights.

George Bush gave you a lasting legacy, didn't he?

So shut up, bend over, and be a nice little Patriot. Uncle Sam wants to
know you better.

===================

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...ORNADO_LOOTERS

Jun 8, 7:08 PM EDT

Looters have come from afar to Okla. after tornado

MOORE, Okla. (AP) -- Authorities say looters have come from as far away
as New York and Virginia to steal from victims of last month's tornado
in Moore, Okla.

The Oklahoman reports (see link below) that police arrested one man from
Elmhurst, N.Y., and two from Virginia on misdemeanor complaints of
stealing copper wire, scrap metal and other items from homes destroyed
by the May 20 tornado. Twenty-four people were killed.

Several Moore residents were also arrested on similar misdemeanor
complaints.

Residents have filed theft reports for such items as a $50,000 watch, a
$13,000 watch, a $2,000 fountain pen and a $1,300 hunting camera.

http://newsok.com/police-say-men-cam...rticle/3843116

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 11:34:35 -0400, Lou Tere
wrote:

So this is your country of brotherly love, eh?


Of course they don't loot in any other country, LOL ...

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 11:34:35 -0400, Lou Tere
wrote in Re Americans come from all
over the US to loot Okla. after tornadoes:


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...ORNADO_LOOTERS

Jun 8, 7:08 PM EDT

Looters have come from afar to Okla. after tornado

MOORE, Okla. (AP) -- Authorities say looters have come from as far away
as New York

Well yes, of course from New York. What else would you expect?

On 6/9/13 10:34 AM, Lou Tere wrote:
So this is your country of brotherly love, eh?

This is your true nature. This is the real face of america and
americans.

Thieving from each other, especially in times of natural disaster, urban
mining, even killing for no reason. That is - when you're not spying on
each other.

C'mon now. Isn't calling these people looters a bit harsh? They
are merely unlicensed recyclers volunteering to help clean up the mess.

On Jun 9, 4:53*pm, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 11:34:35 -0400, Lou Tere
wrote:

So this is your country of brotherly love, eh?

Of course they don't loot in any other country, LOL ...

They don't even wait for a disaster before they start looting in the
UK. Mostly blacks. We have too many immigrants here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh3YsDIGp60

Now how does that work?

If I come back to my devastated house and find someone else digging through my rubble and looking for valuables in broad daylight, am I allowed to shoot him just as I'd shoot a burglar that snuck into my house at night looking for valuables?

I understand that if the houses are devastated, it can be hard to tell which one is your house. But, if I've correctly identified my rubble, and this guy is looking to steal MY stuff, am I within my rights to pull out my Glock and blast his a$$?

Dean Hoffman"
" wrote:
On 6/9/13 10:34 AM, Lou Tere wrote:
So this is your country of brotherly love, eh?

This is your true nature. This is the real face of
america and
americans.

Thieving from each other, especially in times of natural
disaster,
urban mining, even killing for no reason. That is - when
you're not
spying on each other.

C'mon now. Isn't calling these people looters a bit
harsh? They are merely *undocumented* recyclers
volunteering to help clean up
the mess.

there, I fixed it for you

On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 09:35:08 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Of course they don't loot in any other country, LOL ...

They don't even wait for a disaster before they start looting in the
UK. Mostly blacks. We have too many immigrants here.


You got the government you voted for.

In my county there is an estimated 1.2 Million handguns. Long guns are
not counted in any data. Last year 68K + new handguns were registered.
Population of the county is less than 2 Million.

Brit's want their guns back!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh3YsDIGp60

That last looter had a duffle bag. He got more than his fair share.

And Americans come from all over the US to rebuild Okla. after tornadoes

In other words, we are exactly like every other country--populated by
devils, angels, and everything in between.

--
Wes Groleau

A UNIX signature isn't a return address, it's the ASCII equivalent
of a black velvet clown painting. It's a rectangle of carets
surrounding a quote from a literary giant of weeniedom like
Heinlein or Dr. Who.
€” Chris Maeda
Ha, ha, Dr. ..... Who's Chris Maeda?
€” Wes Groleau

Somehow my heart doesn't bleed much for anyone that loses a $50,000 wrist watch or $2000 fountain pen.

Sorry, man, but no one NEEDS a $50,000 wrist watch to know what time it is or a $2000 fountain pen to write something down. You wasted that money on bling; you didn't use it for anything worthwhile. You're no worse off without those things.

"nestork" wrote in message
...

Lou Tere;3075775 Wrote:
MOORE, Okla. (AP) -- Authorities say looters have come from as far away
as New York and Virginia to steal from victims of last month's tornado
in Moore, Okla.

The Oklahoman reports (see link below) that police arrested one man
from
Elmhurst, N.Y., and two from Virginia on misdemeanor complaints of
stealing copper wire, scrap metal and other items from homes destroyed
by the May 20 tornado. Twenty-four people were killed.

Several Moore residents were also arrested on similar misdemeanor
complaints.

Residents have filed theft reports for such items as a $50,000 watch, a
$13,000 watch, a $2,000 fountain pen and a $1,300 hunting camera.



Isn't it ironic.

US Border guards stop a semitrailer loaded with food, blankets, diapers
and water from going to Moore, Oklahoma to give those much needed things
away free to the people there.

But no one is stopping looters from going to Moore, Oklahoma to steal
from the people there.

Somehow that seems bass-ackwards to me.


Somehow you missed that the police were there to stop them
Not to mention that your argument raises the question how do you identify
someone who is going there to be a looter ?

On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 22:57:35 +0200, nestork
wrote:


Lou Tere;3075775 Wrote:
MOORE, Okla. (AP) -- Authorities say looters have come from as far away
as New York and Virginia to steal from victims of last month's tornado
in Moore, Okla.

The Oklahoman reports (see link below) that police arrested one man
from
Elmhurst, N.Y., and two from Virginia on misdemeanor complaints of
stealing copper wire, scrap metal and other items from homes destroyed
by the May 20 tornado. Twenty-four people were killed.

Several Moore residents were also arrested on similar misdemeanor
complaints.

Residents have filed theft reports for such items as a $50,000 watch, a
$13,000 watch, a $2,000 fountain pen and a $1,300 hunting camera.



Isn't it ironic.

US Border guards stop a semitrailer loaded with food, blankets, diapers
and water from going to Moore, Oklahoma to give those much needed things
away free to the people there.

But no one is stopping looters from going to Moore, Oklahoma to steal
from the people there.

Somehow that seems bass-ackwards to me.



I didn't read the report so based on what you said only, I'd have to
agree with you but if the items were just thrown around and not well
pkgd or organized, perhaps they thought it was a cover up to use the
truck for looting???

No, what I think was the real issue was is that our border crossings are set up to handle international shipments, not international donations, and no one on your side of the border really knew what to do with that truck. There's hundreds of trucks cross into Canada and the USA every day at the Windsor/Detroit border, and one truck shows up without any paperwork and says it's delivering disaster relief. They just didn't know quite how to handle that situation and were concerned that it could be a "trick" of some sort.

I just didn't want to see all that food go to waste, and I couldn't see why they couldn't just check random packages on the truck to make sure it was hauling what they said and not any drugs, guns, illegal aliens or whatever. I'm sure the church group in Windsor that put that shipment together would have been fine with some US army truck drivers or any trucking company in Detroit using it's drivers to haul that trailer down to Oklahoma. As long as they got the tractor and empty trailer back in one piece. With your guys in complete control of that truck and it's cargo, no one on this side of the border is going to be able to pull off anything shady involving that truck or it's cargo cuz they wouldn't have any control over what gets given to whom. If the Church group donating the stuff is fine with that, it's safe to assume there's nothing illegal going on.

Whatever, if the trailer isn't in Oklahoma by now then the food is probably already spoiled. But, there really should be some way of getting food and disaster relief across the border quickly and efficiently because people can't go long without clean water to drink, and life can be really miserable without food to eat, warm blankets and Lord knows, diapers.

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 17:33:50 +0200, nestork
wrote:


'Doug[_17_ Wrote:
;3076283']
I didn't read the report so based on what you said only, I'd have to
agree with you but if the items were just thrown around and not well
pkgd or organized, perhaps they thought it was a cover up to use the
truck for looting???

No, what I think was the real issue was is that our border crossings are
set up to handle international shipments, not international donations,
and no one on your side of the border really knew what to do with that
truck. There's hundreds of trucks cross into Canada and the USA every
day at the Windsor/Detroit border, and one truck shows up without any
paperwork and says it's delivering disaster relief. They just didn't
know quite how to handle that situation and were concerned that it could
be a "trick" of some sort.

I just didn't want to see all that food go to waste, and I couldn't see
why they couldn't just check random packages on the truck to make sure
it was hauling what they said and not any drugs, guns, illegal aliens or
whatever. I'm sure the church group in Windsor that put that shipment
together would have been fine with some US army truck drivers or any
trucking company in Detroit using it's drivers to haul that trailer down
to Oklahoma. As long as they got the tractor and empty trailer back in
one piece. With your guys in complete control of that truck and it's
cargo, no one on this side of the border is going to be able to pull off
anything shady involving that truck or it's cargo cuz they wouldn't have
any control over what gets given to whom. If the Church group donating
the stuff is fine with that, it's safe to assume there's nothing illegal
going on.

Whatever, if the trailer isn't in Oklahoma by now then the food is
probably already spoiled. But, there really should be some way of
getting food and disaster relief across the border quickly and
efficiently because people can't go long without clean water to drink,
and life can be really miserable without food to eat, warm blankets and
Lord knows, diapers.

The fault cannot be all on the USA.

Did the Church group research what to do? Did they contact a U.S.
consulate or the U.S. Embassy in Canada. Border Patrol agencies, etc.

The keystone pipeline cannot cross the border with approval from the
Secretary of State.

Just sayin'

No, you're right, they probably didn't, and they should have. I'm sure there would have been plenty of Canadian customs brokers willing to fill out the necessary forms free of charge, but all that should have been done before the truck even left Windsor. Doing that while the truck is sitting at the border is just lousy planning and terrible management.

Speaking of that pipeline, that's another thing. Everyone except the environmentalists agree that it's a no-brainer, and even the environmentalists agree that a pipeline is safer then shipping that oil by sea.

Canada has enough oil to last us over 400 years so we can sell lots of it cuz in 400 years there will be different technologies to drive our cars. Canada has as much oil as Saudi Arabia, but is all mixed with sand, and it's only within the past 20 years that they've found efficient ways to process it, and that technology is evolving rapidly.

We've got lots of oil and you guys are buying oil from Venezuela and Saudi Arabia and even Nigeria now. Shipping Canadian oil to be refined in the USA and distributed as everything from asphalt to aviation fuel will:
1. help both of our economies,
2. lessen US independance on oil from politically unstable and unfriendly regions,
3. reduce the potential for a much greater environmental disaster if that oil has to be transported over water by boat, and
4. create tens of thousands of jobs during the construction and lots of long term high paying jobs on both sides of the border.

...and your President has knowledgeable advisors that are telling him as much.

We need to go ahead and build that pipe line to grow both of our economies.

On 06/09/2013 08:53 AM, Doug wrote:

Lou Tere wrote:

So this is your country of brotherly love, eh?

Of course they don't loot in any other country, LOL ...

But we're supposed to be better than that. Maybe we once really were.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Go back to sleep, citizen. Your government has
everything under control." -Bill Hicks

On 06/09/2013 09:07 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 6/9/13 10:34 AM, Lou Tere wrote:
So this is your country of brotherly love, eh?

This is your true nature. This is the real face of america and
americans.

Thieving from each other, especially in times of natural disaster, urban
mining, even killing for no reason. That is - when you're not spying on
each other.

C'mon now. Isn't calling these people looters a bit harsh? They
are merely unlicensed recyclers volunteering to help clean up the mess.

Not UNLICENSED, you insensitive clod. DIFFERENTLY licensed.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Go back to sleep, citizen. Your government has
everything under control." -Bill Hicks

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 09:33:00 -0700, Oren wrote:


The keystone pipeline cannot cross the border with approval from the
Secretary of State.


Should read "without" approval. Damn keyboard

Just sayin'

Just sayin'

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 20:26:11 +0200, nestork
wrote:

No, you're right, they probably didn't, and they should have. I'm sure
there would have been plenty of Canadian customs brokers willing to fill
out the necessary forms free of charge, but all that should have been
done before the truck even left Windsor. Doing that while the truck is
sitting at the border is just lousy planning and terrible management.

See: Bill of lading

"A bill of lading is issued by a carrier, details a shipment of
merchandise, gives title to the goods, and requires the carrier to
deliver the merchandise to the appropriate party." (Wiki)

In America.

nestork wrote:

Speaking of that pipeline, that's another thing. Everyone except
the environmentalists agree that it's a no-brainer, and even the
environmentalists agree that a pipeline is safer then shipping that
oil by sea.

Right now, and for the past X months, Marathon oil company in Detroit
has been refining Alberta Tar Sands oil that it gets via existing
pipelines. The byproduct of that refining - a mountain of "pet-coke",
is sitting on a vacant lot right beside the Detroit river on the US
side, down-river some distance from the Ambassador Bridge.

There appears to be no plans as to what will become of this looming pile
of ****, it's an environmental distaster happening in slow motion as
rain water runoff carries it into the river.

I've read estimates that up to 30% of a barrel of tar-sands crude is
actually this pet-coke ****.

Extracting oil from the Alberta Tar sands is actually one big massive
environmental cleanup when you think about it. If this low-quality
crude was left somewhere in a shallow pit by a previous industrial
process or company, then what you'd do with it now to remediate the land
and detoxify it is pretty much the same thing that is going on in the
tar sands.

Canada has enough oil to last us over 400 years, as much oil
as Saudi Arabia, but

but it is low quality, high sulphur ****.

The most efficient way to deal with it is to process it on-site, and use
steam generated by small nuclear reactors to do it, instead of burning
massive amounts of natural gas.

You want to know the real reason why the XL pipeline wasn't approved by
the US gov't?

The real reason - because Canada is probably not going to play along
with being a partner in the multi-billion-dollar Lockheed Martin F-35
fiasco.

We've realized that the F-35 is a money-sucking excuse for a fighter
jet, and we've pulled our plans to buy some of these planes at
ridiculous prices as the entire project cost over-runs goes into orbit.

The US doesn't like it when Canada doesn't buy it's "fair share" of
military hardware from US vendors, and retaliation like the XL pipeline
veto is one of the consequences.

Yeah, I was watching a CBC documentary on what's happening with that fighter, and it's production schedule just keeps getting postponed and the estimated price on each one keeps going up.

Canada's role in the UN has traditionally been as peace keepers, and for that we need big heavy slow cargo airplanes to get our troops and equipment to the 4 corners of the Earth, not supersonic stealth fighters.

And, the kinds of war we're engaged in has changed. What good does a supersonic stealth fighter do if your enemy is fighting a guerilla war by planting IEDs in the roads and stealing hostages.

I think the NEXT generation of fighter isn't going to be supersonic OR stealth. It's going to be an unmanned drone because those can be used for war, search and rescue and border security and lots of different uses like that. Maybe we should be buying unmanned drones instead.

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 17:33:50 +0200, nestork
wrote:





Whatever, if the trailer isn't in Oklahoma by now then the food is
probably already spoiled.

Canned good and dry goods are probably OK for another 2 to 5 years.


But, there really should be some way of
getting food and disaster relief across the border quickly and
efficiently because people can't go long without clean water to drink,
and life can be really miserable without food to eat, warm blankets and
Lord knows, diapers.

There is. It is called proper paperwork. Custom declarations are easy
enough to fill out. Thee were some well intentioned people that
just lacked the knowledge of international shipments. I'd lay some of
the blame on the driver too, if he has ever crossed the border.
Drivers don't leave until they have paperwork in hand and in
commercial instances, faxed to the border ahead of time.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

There is. It is called proper paperwork. Custom declarations are
easy enough to fill out.

What sort of paperwork would a group of charity workers in France need
to fill out if they wanted to send some relief supplies to Germany?

(in other words, why exactly do we still have a border between US/Canada
that is more similar to that between north and south Korea?)

No, that's a complete exageration, Home Guy. The US/Canada border is just like any other border between two friendly countries.

The North/South Korea border is a demilitarized strip of land where both sides quite literally stare at each other 24/7. Those two countries are still officially in a state of war with each other.

As far as the scrap material from the structures that were trashed,
what else was going to be done with them? I assume *someone* was
eventually going to collect it and profit from it. So you're only
happy if some state-sanctioned vultures get their hands on it?

In article ,
pongespob wrote:
As far as the scrap material from the structures that were trashed,
what else was going to be done with them? I assume *someone* was
eventually going to collect it and profit from it. So you're only
happy if some state-sanctioned vultures get their hands on it?

Locally (north Alabama) storm debris get hauled to landfills. There's
not even any attempt to salvage trees for lumber, firewood, or pulp. One of my
co-workers home was hit in April 2011; he had a 4' diameter red oak tree
blown down that was sawed into "small" pieces and dumped. As he is a
woodworker, it bothered him to see it go to waste.

Gary

On Jun 10, 2:26*pm, nestork wrote:
'Oren[_2_ Wrote:

;3076399']The fault cannot be all on the USA.

Did the Church group research what to do? *Did they contact a U.S.
consulate or the U.S. Embassy in Canada. *Border Patrol agencies, etc..

The keystone pipeline cannot cross the border with approval from the
Secretary of State.

No, you're right, they probably didn't, and they should have. *I'm sure
there would have been plenty of Canadian customs brokers willing to fill
out the necessary forms free of charge, but all that should have been
done before the truck even left Windsor. *Doing that while the truck is
sitting at the border is just lousy planning and terrible management.

Speaking of that pipeline, that's another thing. *Everyone except the
environmentalists agree that it's a no-brainer, and even the
environmentalists agree that a pipeline is safer then shipping that oil
by sea.

Canada has enough oil to last us over 400 years so we can sell *lots of
it cuz in 400 years there will be different technologies to drive our
cars. *Canada has as much oil as Saudi Arabia, but is all mixed with
sand, and it's only within the past 20 years that they've found
efficient ways to process it, and that technology is evolving rapidly.

We've got lots of oil and you guys are buying oil from Venezuela and
Saudi Arabia and even Nigeria now. *Shipping Canadian oil to be refined
in the USA and distributed as everything from asphalt to aviation fuel
will:
1. help both of our economies,
2. lessen US independance on oil from politically unstable and
unfriendly regions,
3. reduce the potential for a much greater environmental disaster if
that oil has to be transported over water by boat, and
4. create tens of thousands of jobs during the construction and lots of
long term high paying jobs on both sides of the border.

..and your President has knowledgeable advisors that are telling him as
much.

We need to go ahead and build that pipe line to grow both of our
economies.

--
nestork

I agree 100% with all that you say, except that "even the
environmentalists agree that it's safer to ship oil via pipeline
than by sea". I agree it is indeed safer. But I've yet to hear
one environmentalist say it. To them virtually everything to
do with energy is bad. Even say windmills. When it finally
comes time to put them up somewhere, the environmentalists
are blocking that too....

On Jun 10, 8:55*pm, nestork wrote:
Home Guy;3076571 Wrote:



You want to know the real reason why the XL pipeline wasn't approved by
the US gov't?

The real reason - because Canada is probably not going to play along
with being a partner in the multi-billion-dollar Lockheed Martin F-35
fiasco.

Yeah, I was watching a CBC documentary on what's happening with that
fighter, and it's production schedule just keeps getting postponed and
the estimated price on each one keeps going up.

Canada's role in the UN has traditionally been as peace keepers, and for
that we need big heavy slow cargo airplanes to get our troops and
equipment to the 4 corners of the Earth, not supersonic stealth
fighters.

Assuming someone else pays for and flies the fighter aircraft that
make
safe passage for the cargo planes..... Do you think you could
have landed a C-130 in Libya before all their air defenses were
dismantled and their own fighter aircraft destroyed?



And, the kinds of war we're engaged in has changed. *What good does a
supersonic stealth fighter do if your enemy is fighting a guerilla war
by planting IEDs in the roads and stealing hostages.

Seems those fighters were needed recently in places like
Iraq and Libya. Stay tuned for Syria.......





I think the NEXT generation of fighter isn't going to be supersonic OR
stealth. *It's going to be an unmanned drone because those can be used
for war, search and rescue and border security and lots of different
uses like that. *Maybe we should be buying unmanned drones instead.

--
nestork

The US military bought more drones than conventional aircraft for
the first time just a year or two ago.

Syria is another mess.

But things in Syria aren't black and white. There is the Alouite (sp?) clan in Syria that genuinely support Bashir Allasad, and so it's not a black and white case of getting rid of a universally hated dictator so that the people can enjoy a better and truly democratic government. It's a case of picking sides between Syrians that want to see Bashir go and Syrians that want to see him stay.

As far as the Canadian oil goes, I think it's just a matter of time before the XL pipeline is built. America needs oil so badly that it was willing to put up with Hugo Chavez to get it, and Canada has enough to supply our own needs for another 400 years, so we're swimming in it. Obama can see for himself that both countries will benefit from building that pipeline, but he's playing his cards close to his chest because he knows it's a big deal, and he wants the best deal he can hammer out for the US. Our government is going to want the best deal it can hammer out for Canada. But, the pipeline is going to help both economies grow and so it's a good idea regardless of what side of the border you're looking at it from. So, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when we build that pipeline.

On 06/16/2013 08:05 AM, Gary Heston wrote:

In article ,
pongespob wrote:
As far as the scrap material from the structures that were trashed,
what else was going to be done with them? I assume *someone* was
eventually going to collect it and profit from it. So you're only
happy if some state-sanctioned vultures get their hands on it?

Locally (north Alabama) storm debris get hauled to landfills. There's
not even any attempt to salvage trees for lumber, firewood, or pulp. One of my
co-workers home was hit in April 2011; he had a 4' diameter red oak tree
blown down that was sawed into "small" pieces and dumped. As he is a
woodworker, it bothered him to see it go to waste.

Crying shame.

In December 2011 the 100+mph winds blew down thousands of trees and tree
parts, mostly street tree. The ironic thing is that the residents
aren't permitted to trim the street trees and the City can't afford to
do a proper trimming job more frequently than SUPPOSEDLY every five
years. They spent all the money on pretty street lights and fancy
paving in the downtown crosswalks.

It took months for the City to clear up the mess, and there are still
tree stumps still partially in the ground, but they can clear Colorado
Blvd. within hours after the Rose Parade.

Now instead of actually repairing the heaved sidewalks, they just put in
some blacktop to make a smooth transition between blocks -- sometimes as
much as an 8-inch difference in height.

It's not only the Feds that are incompetent or corrupt...


--
Cheers, Bev
--------------------------------------------
The stone age didn't end for lack of stones.
-- Troy the Troll