harry wrote:

The worst thing about US "justice" is the plea bargaining system.

Are you as sure about that as you were that I "made up" the figure of two
million defensive gun uses per year?

On Mon, 7 May 2012 09:24:45 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

I think you are no longer a democracy.

You really are a stooge. Democracy is when two dogs fight over a bone.

America is a Republic.

And while I'm on the subject; stop thinking. It gets you in trouble.

On 7 May 2012 17:47:36 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2012-05-06, Oren wrote:

After 30 years in penology, I can say prison labor is justified and
necessarily essential.

Courts have ruled that prison labor does not interfere with commerce.
Prison built goods are sold to other state agencies.

Apparently, "30 years in penology" has rendered you brain dead, as
everything I said had absolutely zero to do with prison labor. Unless!
....you've raised a point most ppl, including myself, are unaware of.


....yeah my brain is forever modified.

http://www.unicor.gov/

http://www.unicor.gov/about/about_fpi_programs/

I know of the HUGE industry built on supplying prisons with materials.
Have you let slip an little known secret, that the US prison labor
force is, in fact, a huge source of free slave labor!?

nb

The convicts get paid. They seek the jobs out. *******s even get
vacations, imagine that.

On May 8, 6:15*am, G. Morgan wrote:
Attila.Iskander wrote:

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Attila.Iskander wrote:

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
harry wrote:

Guns are intended to kill. *Auto accidents are just that.
Not having guns would be lives saved.

No, that means only criminals will have them. *By the time police
react to a situation, you're already dead.

The facts support my argument. *Where do get the idea that "Not
having guns would be lives saved"?

Because harry and the other idiot hoplophobes are only arguing about "gun
deaths" and ignoring all the rest
Ironically, in the UK, there are 4+ times more homicides committed with
knives than guns.
The fact that harry and his ilk COMPLETELY IGNORE that fact while going
after guns, demonstrates that it's NOT about ANYONE's safety. It's all
about
their paranoid fear of guns.

Do you have a link to UK knife murders? *I need it for another
group.

--
I saw a human pyramid once. It was very unnecessary. -Mitch Hedberg

I believe this is one of them
* *http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...1/The-violent-
country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html#ixzz1u2DOUj00

As for knife crime, just Google "knife crime England"
Here is one of the hits
* *http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16626558

Here is another:http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/knifecrime

It seems it does not matter what the weapon is, the criminals are
just as active over there.



Article here from your link.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/datablo...on-knife-crime

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2012-05-07, Attila.Iskander wrote:

"G. Morgan" wrote in message

FEMA has them all over the place.

Please step away from the bong

LOL!....

OTOH, older native American Japanese are far more knowledgeable on the
subject than anyone I've seen posting, here.


Except for the fact that that event occurred 70+ years ago.

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2012-05-07, Attila.Iskander wrote:

There you go showing your ignorance AGAIN..

You show yer ignorance everytime you post without snipping pages of
previous quotes!


Far more ignorant to cut everything and remove context
Not to mention trying to be a net-nanny

"harry" wrote in message
...
On May 7, 7:50 am, G. Morgan wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 6, 6:30 pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 5 May 2012 23:57:08 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Mind you. Americans are noted for having big mouths.

With the balls to back it up.

Rattlesnakes, other vipers and alligators also have big mouths.

ya dumb muppet

Americans only have balls when attacking someone they perceive as
weaker.
They had a few shocks.

They didn' thave the balls of the Vietnamese.
Or the Iraquis
Somalians.
Afghans.

Sent you snivelling home in spite of all your guns and high tech
equipment.
Afraid of the N. Koreans and the Iranians. Chinese. Russians.

"We" fear no nation. "We" might fear the condemnation by other
nations when engaged in a military operation. It has economic
implications that are undesirable sometimes.

The taxpayers have bought enough munitions to handle any threat on
our own soil, plus fight two other major fronts simultaneously.

In a "Democracy", people don't like their voluntary defense forces
fighting a protracted war with no end-game/goal. It's not 'fear',
but pressure from ordinary citizens that force a withdraw from
conflicts.

--
I saw a human pyramid once. It was very unnecessary. -Mitch Hedberg- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think you are no longer a democracy.

The US NEVER was a "democracy", dummy
It's a Constitutional Republic,

You're a classic example of when you don't even know simple facts, it's hard
to get ANYTHING right...

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
harry wrote:


You'll be lucky if your grandchildren have any prosperity.
It will take decades to fix what Bush and his bankster friends have
done to America. If it can be fixed at all.

You need a Russian style revolution. Hang the capitalists/banksters
from lamposts.

Are you as certain about that as you were that I "made up" the figure of
two million defensive gun uses per year?


Harry is a classic example of modern education
Ideology instead of knowledge.
his brand, Marxism, is all for destroying economies to lead people into the
"New Utopia".
Too bad that every time it has been tried it has led into generations of
human hell.

On 2012-05-08, Attila.Iskander wrote:

Except for the fact that that event occurred 70+ years ago.

But, it did occur, didn't it?

Ever read about how WWII German prisoners in AZ were allowed to go
off-site and attend the local cinema house. The same cinema house off
limits to black Americans, at the same time native born
Japanese-Americans were in "camps", concentrated or otherwise.

I realize America is not the land of saints and like any other nation
has it's share of shameful episodes, but I like it, so far. OTOH,
we're LONG overdue for a shakeup. Todays America is not the one our
founding fathers envisioned.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
Pitbull: "a gun you can pet" --Bill Burr

Home Guy wrote:
notbob wrote:

It always pains me to listen to these legal beagles try and
outthink the founding fathers, as if those great men somehow
slipped up and got it wrong.

They fully expected the constitution to be re-written or changed every
20 to 30 years.

They would be slapping your faces if they knew you kept the same dusty
document as-written for over 200 years.

If the plan was for the Constitution to be re-written, why does it have a
provision for amending it?

Further, the preamble clearly states: "...secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for
the United States of America."

The definition of "Posterity" is "all future generations," not merely the
next one or two...

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Attila.Iskander wrote:

It's simple. If you live in a household with guns, and have kids
in the same household; the firearms need to be secured in a way
that the kid (even a smart, older one) can not gain access. That
means, buy a commercial-grade safe with a combination kept secret
if necessary.

Agreed for the younger ages
Disagree for when they get older
At that point, it's wiser to start teaching them safety and shooting
skills
instead.
There was a study published a few years back, that showed that kids
who
received firearm training and participated in shooting sports had lower
incidence of juvenile crime and teenage pregnancy and not only did better
in
school, but also completed High School and went on to University, compared
to all other child groupings

I agree that the 'fascination' factor has to be dealt with at an
early age. Preferably, schedule range time (or private property
if you are lucky enough to have access) where the kids shoot
watermelons and ice blocks to demonstrate the destructive power.
They need to know its not like TV. I don't know if you can say 5
y/o is the age, I would base it on the individual kid.

The option to allow your kid the combination is a personal choice.
You don't want a perfectly capable person from defending his life
if he's alone during a break-in. But you will also have the extra
liability if the kid uses it for other than self-defense. Again,
I would base the decision on the individual kid, not a particular
age. A teenage mind (especially boys) is not fully 'wired' for
reason vs. emotion, it all depends on the maturity level IMO.


I agree with the fact that teenagers, both boys AND girls, go though phases
where the brains seem disconnected (Just referee some soccer games with 14
to 19 year olds for proof) .
But that can be countered in just about all cases, with training.
When they go though the brain shutdown periods, muscle memory and rote
training works quite well to overcome lack of thought and reason.

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Attila.Iskander wrote:


"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Home Guy wrote:

They fully expected the constitution to be re-written or changed every
20 to 30 years.

Where is that written?


In his imagination ?
Because I know of NO documentary evidence from the Framers where they
declare that the Constitution should expire every 20-30 years.
On the contrary, from their writings, we can infer that they wanted the
Constitution to be a solid LONG-TERM Frame to build a government for the
people.


I've read the thing from beginning to end, its not in there. g


Have you also read what they wrote elsewhere ?
That should be required reading in ANY High School history and Civics
program.

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Attila.Iskander wrote:


"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Attila.Iskander wrote:


"G. Morgan" wrote in message
news:6jjbq7hruet49sbqrfq7v8vpn8ejncm9n1@Osam a-Is-Dead.net...
Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

BTW, the Second Amendment states right up front why people should have
the right to bear arms. Have you signed up with your local militia?
Does
your local militia commander know how to get in touch with you to
summon
you for duty and what weapons you have and how well skilled you are in
their use? Do you report for training as required?

Lat time I checked the 'militia' (a.k.a. National Guard) provides
weapons to the volunteers and must be returned after the drill.


You also need to check the fact that National Guard is NOT the militia,
as
per the Supreme Court.


Help me out here then. What is?


According to the Supremes in Perpich, it's a reserve branch of the Armed
Forces
But it is NOT the "organized militia" as defined elsewhere in USC.

I don't know where one would sign up for this "organized militia",
as the only one I know of is the Guards.


Then you don't even know an organized militia, because the Guards, as per
the Supreme Court in Perpich, is NOT a militia.
Sadly, some States have never implemented a militia, while others have
abandoned them
But militia can also operate at a lower level like a Sherriff's posse,
voluntary Police / Fire/ EMT / Search & Rescue, etc.
Those are also typically historical roles of a militia.

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Attila.Iskander wrote:


"G. Morgan" wrote in message
news
Attila.Iskander wrote:

While concentration camps are a British invention, there are no
"concentration camps" in the US.

FEMA has them all over the place.


Riiiight
Suuuuuure they do..

Please step away from the bong


Don't take my word for it. YouTube has plenty of pictures.


Pictures of what ?
As I wrote
Step away from the bong !

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Attila.Iskander wrote:


"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Attila.Iskander wrote:


"G. Morgan" wrote in message
news:v9req79iq1trdnsq066tmra9esfcga4j03@Osam a-Is-Dead.net...
Attila.Iskander wrote:


"G. Morgan" wrote in message
news:6jjbq7hruet49sbqrfq7v8vpn8ejncm9n1@Osam a-Is-Dead.net...
Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

BTW, the Second Amendment states right up front why people should
have
the right to bear arms. Have you signed up with your local militia?
Does
your local militia commander know how to get in touch with you to
summon
you for duty and what weapons you have and how well skilled you are
in
their use? Do you report for training as required?

Lat time I checked the 'militia' (a.k.a. National Guard) provides
weapons to the volunteers and must be returned after the drill.


You also need to check the fact that National Guard is NOT the
militia,
as
per the Supreme Court.


Help me out here then. What is?


According to the Supremes in Perpich, it's a reserve branch of the Armed
Forces
But it is NOT the "organized militia" as defined elsewhere in USC.

I don't know where one would sign up for this "organized militia",
as the only one I know of is the Guards.


Then you don't even know an organized militia,

Nope, do you?


As distinct from National Guard units, which since they fall under federal
authority, do not qualify as true militia units which were originally
intended to negate complete control of military forces by the Feds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Force

because the Guards, as per
the Supreme Court in Perpich, is NOT a militia.

That case is not exactly what we are talking about:


You stated that the National Guard is a militia
It is NOT
It's a RESERVE component of (Federal) Armed Forces

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpich...ent_of_Defense

"Perpich v. Department of Defense, 496 U.S. 334 (1990), was a case
decided by the United States Supreme Court concerning the Militia
Clauses of Article I, Section 8, of the United States Constitution
in which the court held that the Congress of the United States may
authorize members of the National Guard of the United States to be
ordered to active federal duty for purposes of training outside
the United States without either the consent of a state governor
or the declaration of a national emergency. The plaintiff was Rudy
Perpich, Governor of Minnesota at the time."

Sadly, some States have never implemented a militia, while others have
abandoned them

Which ones have a milita other than the Guards?


1) The Guards are NOT militia, they are RESERVE components of the
Fed-controlled Armed Forces
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Force


But militia can also operate at a lower level like a Sherriff's posse,
voluntary Police / Fire/ EMT / Search & Rescue, etc.
Those are also typically historical roles of a militia.

Right, in times of emergency first responders are asked to do many
things outside the scope of their job description, but taking up
arms and forming a milita is one I've not seen.


People are confused with the notion that the ONLY role of a militia is ONLY
about "taking up arms"
It is NOT !

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Attila.Iskander wrote:

Pictures of what ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dZTM...feature=relmfu

You like Minnesota governors, check out Jessie's investigations.


YAWN

STUPID PRESUMPTION = STUPID CONCLUSION


As I wrote
Step away from the bong !

I prefer papers!

On Tue, 8 May 2012 08:13:09 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote:

Home Guy wrote:
notbob wrote:

It always pains me to listen to these legal beagles try and
outthink the founding fathers, as if those great men somehow
slipped up and got it wrong.

They fully expected the constitution to be re-written or changed every
20 to 30 years.

They would be slapping your faces if they knew you kept the same dusty
document as-written for over 200 years.

If the plan was for the Constitution to be re-written, why does it have a
provision for amending it?

To be fair, it also has a provision for replacing it. Both were made
sufficiently difficult that it's obvious that it wasn't something taken
lightly. Ignoring it has proved far simpler.

Further, the preamble clearly states: "...secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for
the United States of America."

The definition of "Posterity" is "all future generations," not merely the
next one or two...

On 8 May 2012 12:54:52 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2012-05-08, Attila.Iskander wrote:

Except for the fact that that event occurred 70+ years ago.

But, it did occur, didn't it?

Have you ever even audited an English class?

Ever read about how WWII German prisoners in AZ were allowed to go
off-site and attend the local cinema house. The same cinema house off
limits to black Americans, at the same time native born
Japanese-Americans were in "camps", concentrated or otherwise.

I realize America is not the land of saints and like any other nation
has it's share of shameful episodes, but I like it, so far. OTOH,
we're LONG overdue for a shakeup. Todays America is not the one our
founding fathers envisioned.

nb

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

If the plan was for the Constitution to be re-written, why does it
have a provision for amending it?

To be fair, it also has a provision for replacing it. Both were made
sufficiently difficult that it's obvious that it wasn't something
taken lightly. Ignoring it has proved far simpler.


Facepalm! You're right. I overlooked the provision for a Constitutional
Convention.