Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....shop+port als

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW -- sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results.
--
EA

I do have a gasoline generator, which helped me through the
four day cut, in 2003. Consider your needs. And consider if
natural gas is dependable, in your area. Might want propane,
or diesel unit.

Consider the personal aspects.

Do you want to stand out like a lighthouse in a dark harbor?
Do you want your neighbors to demand to run power cords to
thier houses, and you can be Angst Power and Light?

Are you ready for when your neighbors over amp the unit, and
you have to unplug a couple of them, after warning them
several times, and they get angry and light your generator
on fire?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an
example:
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....shop+port als

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V
calcs out to 6
kW -- sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of
carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early
snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had)
disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without
power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this
particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging
from search
results.
--
EA

"Stormin Mormon" writes:

I do have a gasoline generator, which helped me through the
four day cut, in 2003. Consider your needs. And consider if
natural gas is dependable, in your area. Might want propane,
or diesel unit.

The only time natural gas fails, there's usually just a big
crater left behind. Unless you're using LP, natural gas is
way at the top of the reliability list.

Consider the personal aspects.

Do you want to stand out like a lighthouse in a dark harbor?
Do you want your neighbors to demand to run power cords to
thier houses, and you can be Angst Power and Light?

You know what? Most people get a good feeling from helping other
people. I thought you did too.

In this last storm I was on both the receiving and giving end.
I think we all came out ahead.

--
Dan Espen

On Nov 13, 2:57*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW -- sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? *Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results. *
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.

Existential Angst wrote:

I was just informed of the existence of these

Honda (I think it was Honda) was making nat-gas furnaces for the Jap
market that included some sort of AC generator that could power the
furnace and supply maybe 1000 watts of extra juice. This was about 4 or
5 years ago.

Then there are nat-gas powered AC units, something that really hasn't
gained much press here in US/Canada (at least not for the residential
market).

I really would like to power more things off nat-gas for the home,
especially electricity and AC.

And I really would like to store some decent amount of nat-gas (sort of
like playing the markets - buy it in the summer when it's cheap, use it
through the winter when everyone else is paying more).

I know this is getting off-topic, but when will we consumers be able to
buy large quantities of gasoline, natural gas, and even electricity on
some sort of futures market for use at home (or our own car) ?

(not sure why this was x-posted to metalworking...)

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:28:13 -0800 (PST), the renowned
" wrote:

On Nov 13, 2:57*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW -- sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? *Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results. *
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.

At $1,250, something like this would appeal to me if I lived in an
area with unreliable power:

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/pr...od2450243#desc

It doesn't include a transfer switch, though. There are some systems
(such as the furnace and gas water heater electrics) that you'd want
powered in a long blackout.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Home Guy" wrote in message ...

Existential Angst wrote:

I was just informed of the existence of these

Honda (I think it was Honda) was making nat-gas furnaces for the Jap
market that included some sort of AC generator that could power the
furnace and supply maybe 1000 watts of extra juice. This was about 4 or
5 years ago.

Then there are nat-gas powered AC units, something that really hasn't
gained much press here in US/Canada (at least not for the residential
market).

I really would like to power more things off nat-gas for the home,
especially electricity and AC.

And I really would like to store some decent amount of nat-gas (sort of
like playing the markets - buy it in the summer when it's cheap, use it
through the winter when everyone else is paying more).

I know this is getting off-topic, but when will we consumers be able to
buy large quantities of gasoline, natural gas, and even electricity on
some sort of futures market for use at home (or our own car) ?

(not sure why this was x-posted to metalworking...)

================================================== ==================

FWIW ( and even less related), back in the late '70s, when fuel prices were
out of sight, several large office buildings in NYC installed natural-gas
co-generation units for electricity and heating.

Here's the part that got me: They were based on Chevy 396 V8s. The company
that installed them said that life was unknown in those engines running
natural gas, but it was many times their life running gasoline.

After the petroleum crisis was over, I never heard another word about them.
One was in a building just a few blocks from where I worked at the time, in
midtown. Skyscrapers don't really need a lot of heat. They have so much
waste heat that some of them actually run air conditioners in the winter.

--
Ed Huntress

I've found NG to be very reliable. Still, as the world gets
more uncertain, it's a valid question.

"Helping" others. Please realize that I've had a LOT of
people want me to do things for them. And many of them
cheerfully wanted, and sometimes with desperation, demanded
me to be responsible for this or that. I've met a lot of
users, and a lot of leeches. I've met some people who I wish
I hadn't met. My perspective is changing over the years, and
as society goes more and more into the mode of "it's someone
else responsibility". These are the people who really stand
out in my mind.

If you and your neighbors worked as a team, that's terrific
and wonderful. I've had very, very few moments when any of
my neighbors has helped me out in any way. I can think of
one, off hand, in sixteen years. Make that two, as I think
some more.

You may be the next victim of people who are establishing
depenadnce on you. Be careful.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon"
writes:

I do have a gasoline generator, which helped me through
the
four day cut, in 2003. Consider your needs. And consider
if
natural gas is dependable, in your area. Might want
propane,
or diesel unit.

The only time natural gas fails, there's usually just a big
crater left behind. Unless you're using LP, natural gas is
way at the top of the reliability list.

Consider the personal aspects.

Do you want to stand out like a lighthouse in a dark
harbor?
Do you want your neighbors to demand to run power cords to
thier houses, and you can be Angst Power and Light?

You know what? Most people get a good feeling from helping
other
people. I thought you did too.

In this last storm I was on both the receiving and giving
end.
I think we all came out ahead.

--
Dan Espen

Generators are a high theft item. They also need at least
one chain and padlock, and preferably armed overwatch while
they are in operation.

I like your lower cost interlock and inlet. Makes good
sense, to me.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..



wrote in message
...

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years
ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to
connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit.
Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.

In article , says...

"Stormin Mormon" writes:

I do have a gasoline generator, which helped me through the
four day cut, in 2003. Consider your needs. And consider if
natural gas is dependable, in your area. Might want propane,
or diesel unit.

The only time natural gas fails, there's usually just a big
crater left behind. Unless you're using LP, natural gas is
way at the top of the reliability list.

Consider the personal aspects.

Do you want to stand out like a lighthouse in a dark harbor?
Do you want your neighbors to demand to run power cords to
thier houses, and you can be Angst Power and Light?

You know what? Most people get a good feeling from helping other
people. I thought you did too.

In this last storm I was on both the receiving and giving end.
I think we all came out ahead.

The guy next door to me has a Generac. Ran fine for four days--he did
shut it down every day and check the oil and topped it up once.

None of that stuff happened to him.

On Nov 13, 5:30*pm, Home Guy wrote:
Existential Angst wrote:
I was just informed of the existence of these

Honda (I think it was Honda) was making nat-gas furnaces for the Jap
market that included some sort of AC generator that could power the
furnace and supply maybe 1000 watts of extra juice. *This was about 4 or
5 years ago.

Then there are nat-gas powered AC units, something that really hasn't
gained much press here in US/Canada (at least not for the residential
market).

I really would like to power more things off nat-gas for the home,
especially electricity and AC.

And I really would like to store some decent amount of nat-gas (sort of
like playing the markets - buy it in the summer when it's cheap, use it
through the winter when everyone else is paying more).

I know this is getting off-topic, but when will we consumers be able to
buy large quantities of gasoline, natural gas, and even electricity on
some sort of futures market for use at home (or our own car) ?

(not sure why this was x-posted to metalworking...)

I remember seeing something on TV a few years ago about a gasoline
futures market for consumers and fleets. You could buy in for as
little as $50. Interesting concept.

I know this is getting off-topic, but when will we consumers be able to
buy large quantities of gasoline, natural gas, and even electricity on
some sort of futures market for use at home (or our own car) ?

You can do it now. Just buy and sell futures. If you work it right, all
the folks who don't own them will be paying the difference between your
current gas bill, and what you paid for it when it was cheaper.

When you consume your portion of it doesn't matter.

LLoyd

On Nov 13, 2:57*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW -- sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? *Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results. *
--
EA

So, along these lines, I was wondering what would be involved in
modifying my Subaru gasoline-powered generator to run from Nat Gas.
after having worked as a motorcycle mechanic years ago, I truly hate
the smell of gasoline, and it's virtually impossible to pour 6 gallons
into the generator's tank without spilling at least a few drops. Even
with nitrile gloves, I still have to scrub my hands to make the smell
go away.

The 5500W generator will run about 14 hours lightly loaded, but it
still means at least one trip to the gas station (if you can find an
open one that has gas) and two refillis of the genny per day. It would
be great to have gas power.I have a manual transfer switch, and no
need for an automatic one. All of my critical stuff is on batter UPS
power which gives me plenty of time to fire up the generator.

As for neighbors, we all share. There a lots of people on my block
with generators, as our power has been, well, ****ty in the past feww
years. What I seem to be loaning out more than electricity is
extension cords, of which I have plenty. Since I installed the
transfer swirtch, I don't really need the extensions, so the neighbors
are welcome to them.

In this last storm, one of my neighbor's generator died. The moteor
ran fine, but it put out zero volts (well, about 1.25 volts). It was a
bad cap (12uF, 325VAC), and I didn't have one in stock. Found one at
Granger, but they were closed. That's when I learned something really
cool - For an additional $50, they'll send someone to open the store -
any time, night or day. My neighbor jumped all over that - $8 for the
cap, $50 for the store opening and His wife is gonna cook me up a mess
of ribs for my trouble.

In the previous storm, I ran extensions to three neighbors to run
their sump pumps, and we spent the rest of the day polishing off a
bottle of bourbon, and they bought me cans of gasoline.

So, contrary to Stormin's experience, dealing with my neighbors
through stuff like this has been fine. I worried that it might become
like the Twilight Zone episode where the guy has a f**ck of a time
keeping his neighbors from overrunning his bomb shelter, but nothing
like that has happened.

But, does anybody know if it would be possible to do a natural gas
conversion to my 13(I think) HP Subaru?

On Nov 13, 4:28*pm, "
wrote:
On Nov 13, 2:57*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:





Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW -- sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? *Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results. *
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. *He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. * The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. *For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. *Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. *Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do you have a link to the conversion kits that allow gas, propane and
NG selection all in one?

TMT

On 11/13/2011 5:28 PM, wrote:
On Nov 13, 2:57 pm, "Existential wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW --sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results.
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.

Assuming the Generac was installed and maintained properly, and the
automagic controls did the regular cycling (once a month for an hour?)
to make sure nothing froze up, I'd be leaning on dealer and manufacturer
over that short a lifespan. It had at most a hundred hours on it? I
certainly wouldn't eat a failed unit, unless it was my mistake that
killed it. No good reason such an installation shouldn't last for
30+years. Or was neighbor overloading it trying to light up the whole
neighborhood or something?

--
aem sends...

On 11/13/2011 07:16 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Nov 13, 2:57 pm, "Existential wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW --sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results.
--
EA

So, along these lines, I was wondering what would be involved in
modifying my Subaru gasoline-powered generator to run from Nat Gas.
after having worked as a motorcycle mechanic years ago, I truly hate
the smell of gasoline, and it's virtually impossible to pour 6 gallons
into the generator's tank without spilling at least a few drops. Even
with nitrile gloves, I still have to scrub my hands to make the smell
go away.

The 5500W generator will run about 14 hours lightly loaded, but it
still means at least one trip to the gas station (if you can find an
open one that has gas) and two refillis of the genny per day. It would
be great to have gas power.I have a manual transfer switch, and no
need for an automatic one. All of my critical stuff is on batter UPS
power which gives me plenty of time to fire up the generator.

As for neighbors, we all share. There a lots of people on my block
with generators, as our power has been, well, ****ty in the past feww
years. What I seem to be loaning out more than electricity is
extension cords, of which I have plenty. Since I installed the
transfer swirtch, I don't really need the extensions, so the neighbors
are welcome to them.

In this last storm, one of my neighbor's generator died. The moteor
ran fine, but it put out zero volts (well, about 1.25 volts). It was a
bad cap (12uF, 325VAC), and I didn't have one in stock. Found one at
Granger, but they were closed. That's when I learned something really
cool - For an additional $50, they'll send someone to open the store -
any time, night or day. My neighbor jumped all over that - $8 for the
cap, $50 for the store opening and His wife is gonna cook me up a mess
of ribs for my trouble.

In the previous storm, I ran extensions to three neighbors to run
their sump pumps, and we spent the rest of the day polishing off a
bottle of bourbon, and they bought me cans of gasoline.

So, contrary to Stormin's experience, dealing with my neighbors
through stuff like this has been fine. I worried that it might become
like the Twilight Zone episode where the guy has a f**ck of a time
keeping his neighbors from overrunning his bomb shelter, but nothing
like that has happened.

But, does anybody know if it would be possible to do a natural gas
conversion to my 13(I think) HP Subaru?

I converted a smaller Honda generator a couple or years ago, using a kit
from http://www.propane-generators.com/ . It still runs well. I can use
gasoline, propane or NG.

It wasn't very hard to install, although one part they don't supply is a
little bit of tubing to enxend the vacuum line.

--
42 days until The winter celebration (Sunday December 25 2011 12:00 AM).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"The inspiration of the Bible depends on the credulity of him who
reads." -- Robert G. Ingersoll

He's fortunate that some neighbors are kind.
Me, well, my confidence in mankind isn't that
generous.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...

Do you want to stand out like a lighthouse in a dark
harbor?
Do you want your neighbors to demand to run power cords to
thier houses, and you can be Angst Power and Light?

The guy next door to me has a Generac. Ran fine for four
days--he did
shut it down every day and check the oil and topped it up
once.

None of that stuff happened to him.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 17:16:29 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:




The 5500W generator will run about 14 hours lightly loaded, but it
still means at least one trip to the gas station (if you can find an
open one that has gas) and two refillis of the genny per day.

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold, but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

On 11/13/2011 10:38 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.


Chuckle. Ran into that syndrome making flyaway packages for forward ops
in sandbox. (You'd think non-service DoD agencies would be
common-serviced by one of the military services, but no, gotta roll our
own, with mostly non-mil-spec hardware,) Anyway, people doing 90-180 day
tours were always ****ed when their comms and IT capability were not as
good as they were used to, back in CONUS.

What part of 'forward area' did they not understand when they
volunteered for the deployment?

--
aem sends...

On 11/13/2011 11:57 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....shop+port als

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW --sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results.
Did you forget to include the 12 volt charging system in your kw
computation?

Paul

On Nov 13, 10:38*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? *Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. *I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. *Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

"Survival mode" demands that I be able to work, rather than sitting
around enjoying the quiet while my power is out for four days. Last
month, I had my cell phone tethered to a windows machine and used
internet connection sharing to power up my whole network. With Verizon
4G, it was almost as good as my cable connection, though I didn't have
my static IPs.

I also have a sump pump that, during a particularly rainy period, runs
as often as every two minutes. If it doesn't run, "enjoying the quiet"
rapidly turns into cleaning up water from the basement floor.

Point is, I use my generator for more than running the fridge and
furnace. And that was, byu the way, 14 hours at a time before
refueling. I actually ran it 24 hours a day, shutting down only for
refueling.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 22:33:54 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 17:16:29 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:




The 5500W generator will run about 14 hours lightly loaded, but it
still means at least one trip to the gas station (if you can find an
open one that has gas) and two refillis of the genny per day.

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold, but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.


Absolutely correct.


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Nov 13, 10:38*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? *Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. *I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. *Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours
in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. Main issue
was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. The 3 hours
of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most
of my time at a friends house who had power.

In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for
heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for
lights, microwave should be all that's needed. Of course
there are folks that want an automatic start system
that will provide power 24/7. But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

On Nov 13, 8:21*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Nov 13, 4:28*pm, "
wrote:





On Nov 13, 2:57*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:

Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW -- sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? *Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results. *
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. *He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. * The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. *For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. *Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. *Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do you have a link to the conversion kits that allow gas, propane and
NG selection all in one?



http://www.propane-generators.com/

Check out the type 4 kit.

generators running on natural gas produce about 20% less power than on
gasoline.

plan on having some extra power to help neighbors, who will help keep
you safe..

having a inverter to run some lights off a car battery is a good idea,
for quiet times

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 17:16:29 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:




The 5500W generator will run about 14 hours lightly loaded, but it
still means at least one trip to the gas station (if you can find an
open one that has gas) and two refillis of the genny per day.

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold, but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

The recent outage in New England happened during a snowstorm you know.

In article , cayoung61
says...

He's fortunate that some neighbors are kind.
Me, well, my confidence in mankind isn't that
generous.

Maybe you should just move to a better neighborhood. There were more
than 2 million people without power and no incidents of people with
generators being attacked by their neighbors.

In article f2e8c91f-8ced-47ca-8046-
, says...

On Nov 13, 10:38*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? *Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. *I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. *Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours
in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. Main issue
was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. The 3 hours
of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most
of my time at a friends house who had power.

In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for
heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for
lights, microwave should be all that's needed. Of course
there are folks that want an automatic start system
that will provide power 24/7. But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

What noise would that be? The neighbor's system makes no more noise in
my house than my refrigerator does.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 03:52:03 -0800, bob haller wrote:
generators running on natural gas produce about 20% less power than on
gasoline.

AFAIK, that's a worst-case for after-market conversions with poor
airflow. Best-case is about a 4% loss, and real-world typically ends up
being somewhere between the two (but I think CNG usually reduces
efficiency more than LPG does).

I suppose most people over-spec their generators anyway, rather than
buying them to run right at their load limits, so even a loss in maximum
power as high as 20% might not be an issue in most cases.

cheers

Jules

It's a good idea to have a trolling battery or jumper pack,
to run lights after 7 or 8 PM. When the neighbor kids are
going to bed, and some quiet is needed. Some 12 volt lights
can be had, for example a 12 volt fluoresent work light that
I got off Ebay.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"bob haller" wrote in message
...
generators running on natural gas produce about 20% less
power than on
gasoline.

plan on having some extra power to help neighbors, who will
help keep
you safe..

having a inverter to run some lights off a car battery is a
good idea,
for quiet times

I've found that an hour of furnace run time in the morning
and hour at bedtime, works out well. During power cuts near
me, there is often someone with a generator running full
time. Gets annoying.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...


Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in
very frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it
for an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of
gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

The recent outage in New England happened during a snowstorm
you know.

On 11/14/2011 8:31 AM, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 03:52:03 -0800, bob haller wrote:
generators running on natural gas produce about 20% less power than on
gasoline.

AFAIK, that's a worst-case for after-market conversions with poor
airflow. Best-case is about a 4% loss, and real-world typically ends up
being somewhere between the two (but I think CNG usually reduces
efficiency more than LPG does).


I have seen a note about 20% natural gas derating on the manufacturers
specifications of generators.


I suppose most people over-spec their generators anyway, rather than
buying them to run right at their load limits, so even a loss in maximum
power as high as 20% might not be an issue in most cases.

cheers

Jules

On 11/13/2011 8:47 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 11/13/2011 5:28 PM, wrote:
On Nov 13, 2:57 pm, "Existential wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an
example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...


$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW --sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor
alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3
million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly
frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly
in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results.
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.

Assuming the Generac was installed and maintained properly, and the
automagic controls did the regular cycling (once a month for an hour?)
to make sure nothing froze up, I'd be leaning on dealer and manufacturer
over that short a lifespan. It had at most a hundred hours on it? I
certainly wouldn't eat a failed unit, unless it was my mistake that
killed it. No good reason such an installation shouldn't last for
30+years. Or was neighbor overloading it trying to light up the whole
neighborhood or something?

Generac definitely makes different quality similar rated versions. Given
the description this may have been the home depot version with a short
warranty.

According to this a 3 year limited warranty is their best:

http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Pu...Fs/0G8676A.pdf

On Nov 14, 8:53*am, George wrote:
On 11/14/2011 8:31 AM, Jules Richardson wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 03:52:03 -0800, bob haller wrote:
generators running on natural gas produce about 20% less power than on
gasoline.

AFAIK, that's a worst-case for after-market conversions with poor
airflow. Best-case is about a 4% loss, and real-world typically ends up
being somewhere between the two (but I think CNG usually reduces
efficiency more than LPG does).

I have seen a note about 20% natural gas derating on the manufacturers
specifications of generators.



Same here. I think the issue is that gasoline packs considerable more
energy than nat gas. So, not
surprised that there could be a 20% loss.

Do you want to stand out like a lighthouse in a dark
harbor?
Do you want your neighbors to demand to run power cords to
thier houses, and you can be Angst Power and Light?

The guy next door to me has a Generac. Ran fine for four
days--he did
shut it down every day and check the oil and topped it up
once.

None of that stuff happened to him.
Stormin Mormon wrote:
He's fortunate that some neighbors are kind.
Me, well, my confidence in mankind isn't that
generous.


Maybe it's time to leave the trailer park.

Wish I could afford to. Sadly, living in PRNY.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Bob F" wrote in message
...

He's fortunate that some neighbors are kind.
Me, well, my confidence in mankind isn't that
generous.


Maybe it's time to leave the trailer park.

On Nov 14, 7:58*am, George wrote:
On 11/13/2011 8:47 PM, aemeijers wrote:



On 11/13/2011 5:28 PM, wrote:
On Nov 13, 2:57 pm, "Existential wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an
example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW --sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor
alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3
million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly
frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly
in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results.
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.

Assuming the Generac was installed and maintained properly, and the
automagic controls did the regular cycling (once a month for an hour?)
to make sure nothing froze up, I'd be leaning on dealer and manufacturer
over that short a lifespan. It had at most a hundred hours on it? I
certainly wouldn't eat a failed unit, unless it was my mistake that
killed it. No good reason such an installation shouldn't last for
30+years. Or was neighbor overloading it trying to light up the whole
neighborhood or something?

Generac definitely makes different quality similar rated versions. Given
the description this may have been the home depot version with a short
warranty.

According to this a 3 year limited warranty is their best:

http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Pu...s/0G8676A.pdf- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would be interested in hearing about the differences in generator
quality...where do manufacturers cut corners or improve them to
shorten or extend life.

Anyone with knowledge?

TMT

On Nov 14, 6:20*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
In article , cayoung61
says...



He's fortunate that some neighbors are kind.
Me, well, my confidence in mankind isn't that
generous.

Maybe you should just move to a better neighborhood. *There were more
than 2 million people without power and no incidents of people with
generators being attacked by their neighbors.

The outage was in blue states.

Having a outage in red states YMMV.

TMT

On Nov 14, 8:49*am, "
wrote:
On Nov 14, 8:53*am, George wrote:

On 11/14/2011 8:31 AM, Jules Richardson wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 03:52:03 -0800, bob haller wrote:
generators running on natural gas produce about 20% less power than on
gasoline.

AFAIK, that's a worst-case for after-market conversions with poor
airflow. Best-case is about a 4% loss, and real-world typically ends up
being somewhere between the two (but I think CNG usually reduces
efficiency more than LPG does).

I have seen a note about 20% natural gas derating on the manufacturers
specifications of generators.

Same here. *I think the issue is that gasoline packs considerable more
energy than nat gas. *So, not
surprised that there could be a 20% loss.

Yes you see a reduction.

I do recall reading that a NG only generator has a longer lifespan.

TMT