"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...
In article f2e8c91f-8ced-47ca-8046-
, says...

On Nov 13, 10:38 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours
in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. Main issue
was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. The 3 hours
of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most
of my time at a friends house who had power.

In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for
heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for
lights, microwave should be all that's needed. Of course
there are folks that want an automatic start system
that will provide power 24/7. But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

What noise would that be? The neighbor's system makes no more noise in
my house than my refrigerator does.

What brand/type of unit do they use?

The NG Generacs claim 62, 63 db -- which is pretty quiet, but I don't know
exactly how quiet that is -- an idling car, an idling car + 500 rpm??

Also, I was thinking of keeping mine inside, as the gas line and breaker
panels are close by, and venting the exhaust outside.

Good/bad idear? It would solve the theft problem, f'sure. Mebbe put an
inline duct fan to generate some suction, to make sure ALL the exhaust is
exhausted.
--
EA

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

At $1,250, something like this would appeal to me if I lived in an
area with unreliable power:

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/pr...od2450243#desc

It doesn't include a transfer switch, though. There are some systems
(such as the furnace and gas water heater electrics) that you'd want
powered in a long blackout.

"Wireless remote starter"

Great, you don't even have to get up to restore power to the big screen TV.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Nov 14, 3:30*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message

in.local...





In article f2e8c91f-8ced-47ca-8046-
, says....

On Nov 13, 10:38 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

.. .

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours
in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. *Main issue
was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. *The 3 hours
of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most
of my time at a friends house who had power.

In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for
heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for
lights, microwave should be all that's needed. *Of course
there are folks that want an automatic start system
that will provide power 24/7. * But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

What noise would that be? *The neighbor's system makes no more noise in
my house than my refrigerator does.

What brand/type of unit do they use?

The NG Generacs claim 62, 63 db -- which is pretty quiet, but I don't know
exactly how quiet that is -- an idling car, an idling car + 500 rpm??

Also, I was thinking of keeping mine inside, as the gas line and breaker
panels are close by, and venting the exhaust outside.

Good/bad idear? *It would solve the theft problem, f'sure. *Mebbe put an
inline duct fan to generate some suction, to make sure ALL the exhaust is
exhausted.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd investigate the potential code issues. Not sure if there are
any, but I'd at least look into it. The ones I'm familiar with have
all been outside. Not sure what the exhaust gases consist of,
but I would not be surprised if the exhaust had a lot more CO
than say a stove or furnace, so if the vent system should fail,
could be a problem. I'd also check the Genrac websit, which
probably has something to say about the matter. Or read the
install manual and see what it says.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 03:52:03 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

generators running on natural gas produce about 20% less power than on
gasoline.

Generators running on natural gas are capable of producing 20% Less
power at full load.

A difference that actually means something if one needs to run at full
power.


plan on having some extra power to help neighbors, who will help keep
you safe..

having a inverter to run some lights off a car battery is a good idea,
for quiet times

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:20:48 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article , cayoung61
says...

He's fortunate that some neighbors are kind.
Me, well, my confidence in mankind isn't that
generous.

Maybe you should just move to a better neighborhood. There were more
than 2 million people without power and no incidents of people with
generators being attacked by their neighbors.



But..there were a Signifcant number of generators..running or not..that
were stolen from their locals...


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:28:55 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Nov 14, 7:58Â*am, George wrote:
On 11/13/2011 8:47 PM, aemeijers wrote:



On 11/13/2011 5:28 PM, wrote:
On Nov 13, 2:57 pm, "Existential wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an
example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW --sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor
alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3
million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly
frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly
in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results.
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.

Assuming the Generac was installed and maintained properly, and the
automagic controls did the regular cycling (once a month for an hour?)
to make sure nothing froze up, I'd be leaning on dealer and manufacturer
over that short a lifespan. It had at most a hundred hours on it? I
certainly wouldn't eat a failed unit, unless it was my mistake that
killed it. No good reason such an installation shouldn't last for
30+years. Or was neighbor overloading it trying to light up the whole
neighborhood or something?

Generac definitely makes different quality similar rated versions. Given
the description this may have been the home depot version with a short
warranty.

According to this a 3 year limited warranty is their best:

http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Pu...s/0G8676A.pdf- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would be interested in hearing about the differences in generator
quality...where do manufacturers cut corners or improve them to
shorten or extend life.

Anyone with knowledge?

TMT
On the engine - what kind of bearings?plain, roller, ball etc.
Lubrication- Full pressure lub with filter/without filter or splash
lubricated.
Iron cyl, iron liner, silicone aluminum, or aluminum.

Those are just a few of the BIG differences between CHEAP and GOOD.

Automatic low oil cutoff? Not only yes or no - but quality and
reliability of the switch. Some work every time, some work sometimes,
some never work, and some shut the engine down even when the oil level
is totally up to snuff.

Camshaft - plastic or metal??? nd quality of.
With OHV engines, quality of engine rocker arms and other valve train
parts.

Then there is the generator head. Quality of insulation, quality of
assembly - soldering etc - and copper or aluminum windings.And quality
of control electronics. Amount of air gap, brush or brushless design,
etc.

Always SOMEWHERE an unscrupulous manufacturer can cut corners to
reduce the cost by another couple of cents and reduce the lifespan by
another couple of hours.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:31:23 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Nov 14, 8:49Â*am, "
wrote:
On Nov 14, 8:53Â*am, George wrote:

On 11/14/2011 8:31 AM, Jules Richardson wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 03:52:03 -0800, bob haller wrote:
generators running on natural gas produce about 20% less power than on
gasoline.

AFAIK, that's a worst-case for after-market conversions with poor
airflow. Best-case is about a 4% loss, and real-world typically ends up
being somewhere between the two (but I think CNG usually reduces
efficiency more than LPG does).

I have seen a note about 20% natural gas derating on the manufacturers
specifications of generators.

Same here. Â*I think the issue is that gasoline packs considerable more
energy than nat gas. Â*So, not
surprised that there could be a 20% loss.

Yes you see a reduction.

I do recall reading that a NG only generator has a longer lifespan.

TMT
Propane and CNG, being "dry gasses" are much easier on the engine -
and if the engine is DESIGNED for, say, PROPANE, and propane only -
with compression ratios etc adjusted to take advantage of the higher
octane (115AKI) a propane engine can make just as much power as a
gasoline engine. Takes more fuel to do the same job though.

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:28:13 -0800 (PST), the renowned
" wrote:

On Nov 13, 2:57 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an
example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW -- sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor
alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3
million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent
power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in
CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results.
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

I agree, keep the transfer manual.

If you have a main disconnect switch or breaker, it's actually sort of a
no-brainer to safely hook up a generator --
Can literally just add two 30 A breakers to the panel, and feed to the whole
house from there. Just make sure the main disconnect is off when running
the generator.





IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.

At $1,250, something like this would appeal to me if I lived in an
area with unreliable power:

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/pr...od2450243#desc


A diesel generator, 70 db, 20 A at 240 V. Weight??

My Generac link I think was 62 db, 25 A at 240 V, $1700, nat. gas. Weighs
250#.
--
EA



It doesn't include a transfer switch, though. There are some systems
(such as the furnace and gas water heater electrics) that you'd want
powered in a long blackout.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers:
http://www.speff.com

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:30:41 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
ain.local...
In article f2e8c91f-8ced-47ca-8046-
, says...

On Nov 13, 10:38 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours
in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. Main issue
was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. The 3 hours
of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most
of my time at a friends house who had power.

In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for
heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for
lights, microwave should be all that's needed. Of course
there are folks that want an automatic start system
that will provide power 24/7. But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

What noise would that be? The neighbor's system makes no more noise in
my house than my refrigerator does.

What brand/type of unit do they use?

The NG Generacs claim 62, 63 db -- which is pretty quiet, but I don't know
exactly how quiet that is -- an idling car, an idling car + 500 rpm??

Also, I was thinking of keeping mine inside, as the gas line and breaker
panels are close by, and venting the exhaust outside.

Good/bad idear? It would solve the theft problem, f'sure. Mebbe put an
inline duct fan to generate some suction, to make sure ALL the exhaust is
exhausted.

Id run mine OUTSIDE and chain it to something with a decent chain and
lock. Something solid and immovable.

But then..I have common sense

Shrug

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Engine puts out a lot of heat. Not sure how many BTU per
hour that is, but it would be considerable. Summer time
power cuts, you'd want to vent the heat out doors some how.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
On Nov 14, 3:30 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Also, I was thinking of keeping mine inside, as the gas
line and breaker
panels are close by, and venting the exhaust outside.

Good/bad idear? It would solve the theft problem, f'sure.
Mebbe put an
inline duct fan to generate some suction, to make sure ALL
the exhaust is
exhausted.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd investigate the potential code issues. Not sure if
there are
any, but I'd at least look into it. The ones I'm familiar
with have
all been outside. Not sure what the exhaust gases consist
of,
but I would not be surprised if the exhaust had a lot more
CO
than say a stove or furnace, so if the vent system should
fail,
could be a problem. I'd also check the Genrac websit, which
probably has something to say about the matter. Or read the
install manual and see what it says.

"Existential Angst" wrote in
:

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...
In article f2e8c91f-8ced-47ca-8046-
,
says...

On Nov 13, 10:38 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours
in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. Main issue
was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. The 3 hours
of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most
of my time at a friends house who had power.

In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for
heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for
lights, microwave should be all that's needed. Of course
there are folks that want an automatic start system
that will provide power 24/7. But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

What noise would that be? The neighbor's system makes no more noise
in my house than my refrigerator does.

What brand/type of unit do they use?

The NG Generacs claim 62, 63 db -- which is pretty quiet, but I don't
know exactly how quiet that is -- an idling car, an idling car + 500
rpm??

Also, I was thinking of keeping mine inside, as the gas line and
breaker panels are close by, and venting the exhaust outside.

exhaust outside close to the building can infiltrate back inside. that's
why it's recommended to site your generator well away from your house.

Good/bad idear? It would solve the theft problem, f'sure. Mebbe put
an inline duct fan to generate some suction, to make sure ALL the
exhaust is exhausted.

to avoid theft,you could put the generator on a 2nd floor patio or roof.
that is what some people are doing with their air conditioning units,to
avoid copper thieves.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

"Existential Angst" wrote in
:

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:28:13 -0800 (PST), the renowned
" wrote:

On Nov 13, 2:57 pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an
example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....c-5837-Standby
-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out
to 6 kW -- sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor
alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3
million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly
frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power,
mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this
particular brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from
search results.
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

I agree, keep the transfer manual.

If you have a main disconnect switch or breaker, it's actually sort of
a no-brainer to safely hook up a generator --
Can literally just add two 30 A breakers to the panel, and feed to the
whole house from there. Just make sure the main disconnect is off
when running the generator.

not legal,I'm sure,and it doesn't consider emergency personnel or others
who don't know your unsafe arrangment.

Do it right.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
4...
"Existential Angst" wrote in
:

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...
In article f2e8c91f-8ced-47ca-8046-
,
says...

On Nov 13, 10:38 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours
in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. Main issue
was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. The 3 hours
of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most
of my time at a friends house who had power.

In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for
heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for
lights, microwave should be all that's needed. Of course
there are folks that want an automatic start system
that will provide power 24/7. But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

What noise would that be? The neighbor's system makes no more noise
in my house than my refrigerator does.

What brand/type of unit do they use?

The NG Generacs claim 62, 63 db -- which is pretty quiet, but I don't
know exactly how quiet that is -- an idling car, an idling car + 500
rpm??

Also, I was thinking of keeping mine inside, as the gas line and
breaker panels are close by, and venting the exhaust outside.

exhaust outside close to the building can infiltrate back inside. that's
why it's recommended to site your generator well away from your house.

Which, if installed inside, would suggest a strong duct fan -- mebbe strong
enough to blow the exhaust over to my neighbor.... LOL

Oh, apropos of another inneresting post on generator quality, cutting
corners, the whole db thing is esp. subject to scamming, as HOW you measure
db's is critical -- from 1 ft away or 100 ft away, etc. Don't know if there
is a standard, and even if there is, who knows who is adhering to it....



Good/bad idear? It would solve the theft problem, f'sure. Mebbe put
an inline duct fan to generate some suction, to make sure ALL the
exhaust is exhausted.

to avoid theft,you could put the generator on a 2nd floor patio or roof.
that is what some people are doing with their air conditioning units,to
avoid copper thieves.

Mebbe an outside shed, with an alarm...
--
EA



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On 11/14/2011 5:26 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
(snip)
If you have a main disconnect switch or breaker, it's actually sort of a
no-brainer to safely hook up a generator --
Can literally just add two 30 A breakers to the panel, and feed to the whole
house from there. Just make sure the main disconnect is off when running
the generator.




Time for this thread again already? Yes, your solution works, but it is
a bad idea, and probably illegal in many places. Sure, you know which
way to throw the switches, but what if you are injured/dead/out of town,
and somebody else fires it up, trying to be helpful? Unless there is a
mechanical interlock that won't let the backfeed breakers be turned on
unless main breaker is turned off, you have to potential for killing
linemen or neighbors with that wire on pole or ground you just
energized. Not as bad as the all-too-common suicide cords, but still way
too risky. The correct solution is simply not that expensive.

--
aem sends...

In article ,
says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
in.local...
In article f2e8c91f-8ced-47ca-8046-
, says...

On Nov 13, 10:38 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours
in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. Main issue
was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. The 3 hours
of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most
of my time at a friends house who had power.

In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for
heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for
lights, microwave should be all that's needed. Of course
there are folks that want an automatic start system
that will provide power 24/7. But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

What noise would that be? The neighbor's system makes no more noise in
my house than my refrigerator does.

What brand/type of unit do they use?

The NG Generacs claim 62, 63 db -- which is pretty quiet, but I don't know
exactly how quiet that is -- an idling car, an idling car + 500 rpm??

Outside you can clearly hear it start up (it cranks up once a week and
runs for a few minutes automatically just to keep everything lubed up
and let it be known if there is a probley). Inside if you're in a room
on that side of the house and it's really quite you can hear it. It's
not what I'd call an obtrusive noise level.

Also, I was thinking of keeping mine inside, as the gas line and breaker
panels are close by, and venting the exhaust outside.

Good/bad idear? It would solve the theft problem, f'sure. Mebbe put an
inline duct fan to generate some suction, to make sure ALL the exhaust is
exhausted.

You really need to talk the building inspector about that but my
suspicion is that he'll tell you you can't do it.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:52:42 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Engine puts out a lot of heat. Not sure how many BTU per
hour that is, but it would be considerable. Summer time
power cuts, you'd want to vent the heat out doors some how.

An engine will put out at least 3-4x the heat as useful work (20-25%
efficient). 1kWh ~ 3400BTU, so figure 10,000-15,000 BTU/hour per kW
generated.

On Nov 14, 2:30*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message

in.local...





In article f2e8c91f-8ced-47ca-8046-
, says....

On Nov 13, 10:38 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

.. .

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very
frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for
an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold,
but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas
and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours
in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. *Main issue
was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. *The 3 hours
of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most
of my time at a friends house who had power.

In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for
heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for
lights, microwave should be all that's needed. *Of course
there are folks that want an automatic start system
that will provide power 24/7. * But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

What noise would that be? *The neighbor's system makes no more noise in
my house than my refrigerator does.

What brand/type of unit do they use?

The NG Generacs claim 62, 63 db -- which is pretty quiet, but I don't know
exactly how quiet that is -- an idling car, an idling car + 500 rpm??

Also, I was thinking of keeping mine inside, as the gas line and breaker
panels are close by, and venting the exhaust outside.

Good/bad idear? *It would solve the theft problem, f'sure. *Mebbe put an
inline duct fan to generate some suction, to make sure ALL the exhaust is
exhausted.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Unless it is code compliant it is illegal...and a damn good way to go
to sleep permanently.

TMT

On Nov 14, 4:07*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:28:55 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools





wrote:
On Nov 14, 7:58*am, George wrote:
On 11/13/2011 8:47 PM, aemeijers wrote:

On 11/13/2011 5:28 PM, wrote:
On Nov 13, 2:57 pm, "Existential wrote:
Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an
example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW --sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor
alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3
million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly
frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly
in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results.
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.

Assuming the Generac was installed and maintained properly, and the
automagic controls did the regular cycling (once a month for an hour?)
to make sure nothing froze up, I'd be leaning on dealer and manufacturer
over that short a lifespan. It had at most a hundred hours on it? I
certainly wouldn't eat a failed unit, unless it was my mistake that
killed it. No good reason such an installation shouldn't last for
30+years. Or was neighbor overloading it trying to light up the whole
neighborhood or something?

Generac definitely makes different quality similar rated versions. Given
the description this may have been the home depot version with a short
warranty.

According to this a 3 year limited warranty is their best:

http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Pu...8676A.pdf-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would be interested in hearing about the differences in generator
quality...where do manufacturers cut corners or improve them to
shorten or extend life.

Anyone with knowledge?

TMT

On the engine - what kind of bearings?plain, roller, ball etc.
Lubrication- Full pressure lub with filter/without filter or splash
lubricated.
Iron cyl, iron liner, silicone aluminum, or aluminum.

Those are just a few of the BIG differences between CHEAP and GOOD.

Automatic low oil cutoff? Not only yes or no - but quality and
reliability of the switch. Some work every time, some work sometimes,
some never work, and some shut the engine down even when the oil level
is totally up to snuff.

Camshaft - plastic or metal??? nd quality of.
With OHV engines, quality of engine rocker arms and other valve train
parts.

Then there is the generator head. Quality of insulation, quality of
assembly - soldering etc - and copper or aluminum windings.And quality
of control electronics. Amount of air gap, brush or brushless design,
etc.

Always SOMEWHERE an unscrupulous manufacturer can cut corners to
reduce the cost by another couple of cents and reduce the lifespan by
another couple of hours.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks...good list.

Any idea how to buy a generator of good quality...price, name, human
sacrifice?

TMT

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:24:28 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:



But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

What noise would that be? The neighbor's system makes no more noise in
my house than my refrigerator does.

Maybe you need a new refrigerator?

The generators around here are loud enough to be annoying over night.
From your comment, I imagine there are quieter ones..

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:19:07 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:




Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold, but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

The recent outage in New England happened during a snowstorm you know.


I know, I was in it and my power was out for a time. It was not all
that cold that you'd need the heat on 14 hours a day. It warmed up
nicely on Monday.

If there was a spell of temperatures below 20 all day, you may need
more, but not this past storm. At that point, you put all your
refrigerated items outside to keep them so power is less critical.

On Nov 14, 10:25*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:19:07 -0500, "J. Clarke"

wrote:

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? *Unless you are in very frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. *I'd run it for an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold, but I'd not
keep it going all the time. *Considering the scarcity of gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

The recent outage in New England happened during a snowstorm you know.

I know, I was in it and my power was out for a time. *It was not all
that cold that you'd need the heat on 14 hours a day. * It warmed up
nicely on Monday.

If there was a spell of temperatures below 20 all day, you may need
more, but not this past storm. At that point, you put all your
refrigerated items outside to keep them so power is less critical.

Sure, if all you're doing is heating a house and cooling food. I have
a business to run and a sump to pump, and it would be nice to be able
to do so without having to deal with gas cans.

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Nov 14, 10:25 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:19:07 -0500, "J. Clarke"

wrote:

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold, but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

The recent outage in New England happened during a snowstorm you know.

I know, I was in it and my power was out for a time. It was not all
that cold that you'd need the heat on 14 hours a day. It warmed up
nicely on Monday.

If there was a spell of temperatures below 20 all day, you may need
more, but not this past storm. At that point, you put all your
refrigerated items outside to keep them so power is less critical.

Sure, if all you're doing is heating a house and cooling food. I have
a business to run and a sump to pump, and it would be nice to be able
to do so without having to deal with gas cans.
================================================== =

Gamers also need power 24/7.
'course, one big car battery should suffice for a while.... for a small
gamer, at any rate.
--
EA

And consider if natural gas is dependable, in your area.

Anywhere outside of Earthshake regions, MTBF of resi gas is in decades.


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

rangerssuck writes:


So, along these lines, I was wondering what would be involved in
modifying my Subaru gasoline-powered generator to run from Nat Gas.
after having worked as a motorcycle mechanic years ago, I truly hate
the smell of gasoline, and it's virtually impossible to pour 6 gallons
into the generator's tank without spilling at least a few drops. Even
with nitrile gloves, I still have to scrub my hands to make the smell
go away.


There are several places I found:

http://USCarb.com
http://www.propane-conversions.com/generators/

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Nov 14, 7:41*pm, aemeijers wrote:
On 11/14/2011 5:26 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
(snip)

If you have a main disconnect switch or breaker, it's actually sort of a
no-brainer to safely hook up a generator --
Can literally just add two 30 A breakers to the panel, and feed to the whole
house from there. *Just make sure the main disconnect is off when running
the generator.

Time for this thread again already? *Yes, your solution works, but it is
a bad idea, and probably illegal in many places.

I'd bet that includes virtually all the USA.



Sure, you know which
way to throw the switches, but what if you are injured/dead/out of town,
and somebody else fires it up, trying to be helpful? Unless there is a
mechanical interlock that won't let the backfeed breakers be turned on
unless main breaker is turned off, you have to potential for killing
linemen or neighbors with that wire on pole or ground you just
energized. Not as bad as the all-too-common suicide cords, but still way
too risky. The correct solution is simply not that expensive.

--
aem sends...

An Interlockit kit is the cheap, easy and IMO best solution.
It's essentially a sliding bar, available for most panels, that
prevents the breaker going to the generator and the main
breaker from being on at the same time.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 01:11:03 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Nov 14, 10:25 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:19:07 -0500, "J. Clarke"

wrote:

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold, but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

The recent outage in New England happened during a snowstorm you know.

I know, I was in it and my power was out for a time. It was not all
that cold that you'd need the heat on 14 hours a day. It warmed up
nicely on Monday.

If there was a spell of temperatures below 20 all day, you may need
more, but not this past storm. At that point, you put all your
refrigerated items outside to keep them so power is less critical.

Sure, if all you're doing is heating a house and cooling food. I have
a business to run and a sump to pump, and it would be nice to be able
to do so without having to deal with gas cans.
================================================= ==

Gamers also need power 24/7.
'course, one big car battery should suffice for a while.... for a small
gamer, at any rate.

Nah, gamers need to move out of mommy's basement and get a life.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 01:11:03 -0500, "Existential Angst"

wrote:

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Nov 14, 10:25 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:19:07 -0500, "J. Clarke"

wrote:

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold, but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

The recent outage in New England happened during a snowstorm you know.

I know, I was in it and my power was out for a time. It was not all
that cold that you'd need the heat on 14 hours a day. It warmed up
nicely on Monday.

If there was a spell of temperatures below 20 all day, you may need
more, but not this past storm. At that point, you put all your
refrigerated items outside to keep them so power is less critical.

Sure, if all you're doing is heating a house and cooling food. I have
a business to run and a sump to pump, and it would be nice to be able
to do so without having to deal with gas cans.
================================================ ===

Gamers also need power 24/7.
'course, one big car battery should suffice for a while.... for a small
gamer, at any rate.

Nah, gamers need to move out of mommy's basement and get a life.

Not likely, as that implies getting a job.
--
EA

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:27:16 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:30:41 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
main.local...
In article f2e8c91f-8ced-47ca-8046-
, says...

On Nov 13, 10:38 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I can't imagine a 14 hour day of generator run. I'd figure
an hour ever several hours for heat, and refrigeration. Then
work around other things. Candles and other lamps for light
and trace ammounts of heat. Survival mode requires different
behaviours.


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very
frigid weather and the heat must run all the time.
I'd run it for an hour or so every four to keep the refrigerators
and freezer cold, but I'd not keep it going all the time.
Considering the scarcity of gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

During the hurricane in August I ran mine for about 2 hours
in the morning, then about 3 hours at night. Main issue
was keeping refrigerator and one freezer OK. The 3 hours
of lights would be enough at night, but I was spending most
of my time at a friends house who had power.

In winter, running it a bit every few hours as needed for
heat as you suggest, then a few hours at night for
lights, microwave should be all that's needed. Of course
there are folks that want an automatic start system
that will provide power 24/7. But that's overkill for me
and I would not want to subject neighbors or myself to
all the noise.

What noise would that be? The neighbor's system makes no more noise in
my house than my refrigerator does.

What brand/type of unit do they use?

The NG Generacs claim 62, 63 db -- which is pretty quiet, but I don't know
exactly how quiet that is -- an idling car, an idling car + 500 rpm??

Also, I was thinking of keeping mine inside, as the gas line and breaker
panels are close by, and venting the exhaust outside.

Good/bad idear? It would solve the theft problem, f'sure. Mebbe put an
inline duct fan to generate some suction, to make sure ALL the exhaust is
exhausted.

Id run mine OUTSIDE and chain it to something with a decent chain and
lock. Something solid and immovable.

But then..I have common sense

Shrug

Gunner

Generators are put in dedicated rooms all the time for industrial
applications. I'd love to have the unit from Verizon Granada Hills
C.O. - 750KW Continuous, 1MW surge - and you need that when you're
starting two 50-ton AC units and several 5 to 10-Ton ones, and all the
Phone Switch battery chargers. The phone switch is a huge computer,
they don't like working when they get hot.

An Architect, Engineer, and special permits required. You have to
make a separate sealed room in the building with provisions for taking
the exhaust out the roof to a proper stack, away from all windows and
air intakes. Large fixed vent louvers in the wall low and high, and
forced ventilation when the engine is running. Remote fuel tank buried
or pad-mount outside - only a small Day Tank allowed in the room. Fire
sprinklers. Extinguishers. Fire rated doors, walls, ceiling into the
rest of the building

And a proper transfer switch, with a way to monitor the Utility line
to see if it's back yet. If you just transfer the whole house that's
fine, but you still have to tap off a separate 15A breaker to be able
to monitor utility power.

You could do the same thing on a smaller scale at home, but you'd
still better plan it all out properly first.

-- Bruce --

" wrote:

Nah, gamers need to move out of mommy's basement and get a life.


How do you get them out of the basement without cutting holes in
walls & floor, and using a crane?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:21:08 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 01:11:03 -0500, "Existential Angst"

wrote:

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Nov 14, 10:25 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:19:07 -0500, "J. Clarke"

wrote:

Why would you run it 14 hours a day? Unless you are in very frigid
weather and the heat must run all the time. I'd run it for an hour or
so every four to keep the refrigerators and freezer cold, but I'd not
keep it going all the time. Considering the scarcity of gas and the
work to feed it, I'd use it sparingly and enjoy the quiet.

The recent outage in New England happened during a snowstorm you know.

I know, I was in it and my power was out for a time. It was not all
that cold that you'd need the heat on 14 hours a day. It warmed up
nicely on Monday.

If there was a spell of temperatures below 20 all day, you may need
more, but not this past storm. At that point, you put all your
refrigerated items outside to keep them so power is less critical.

Sure, if all you're doing is heating a house and cooling food. I have
a business to run and a sump to pump, and it would be nice to be able
to do so without having to deal with gas cans.
=============================================== ====

Gamers also need power 24/7.
'course, one big car battery should suffice for a while.... for a small
gamer, at any rate.

Nah, gamers need to move out of mommy's basement and get a life.

Not likely, as that implies getting a job.

Well, the alternative is the local OWS protest.

Totally as an aside, FYI, and all that, on the offshore rigs, natural gas
would be taken out of the wellhead, refined slightly (probably the water and
particulates filtered out), then used to power the pumps that pumped the
rest to the refineries.

Steve

On Nov 14, 6:16*am, "
wrote:
On Nov 13, 8:21*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:





On Nov 13, 4:28*pm, "
wrote:

On Nov 13, 2:57*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:

Awl --

I was just informed of the existence of these, here's an example:http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....andby-Generato...

$1700 (for 7 kW) doesn't seem too bad (altho 25 A x 240 V calcs out to 6
kW -- sigh).
They have a 17 kW for about $3500.

This seems like a really good idea, just for the lack of carburetor alone!
And of course the lack of stored gasoline....

Altho I (miraculously) escaped the wrath of this last early snow, 3 million
other people didn't, and overall I have (had) disconcertingly frequent power
problems, and should proly prepare.
As of a day or two ago, over 100,000 are STILL without power, mostly in CT.

Any comments, experiences generator-wise? *Comments on this particular
brand, other brands?
Generac seems to have some good SEO people on board, judging from search
results. *
--
EA

I have a neighbor that had a Generac automatic generator
that ran on natural gas. *He paid $7K for it about 5 years ago.
It failed after 4 hours of use during the recent hurricane.
Company that installed it told him it's not worth fixing and
he bought a new one.

My two cents is this. * The automatic transfer generators
add compexity and more sources of failure as well as
cost. *For under $1000 you can buy a portable generator,
an interlockit kit for your main panel, and an inlet to connect
the generator, as well as a natural gas conversion kit. *Some
kits are permanent, others allow selecting between nat
gas, propane, or gasoline.

IMO the automatic systems make sense if there isn't
going to be someone there to connect the generator and
start it up. *Otherwise a portable that you can connect
when needed as well as have for other possible portable
uses and which costs a lot less could be a better choice.

And in my recommended solution, if the generator is
trashed, you can buy a whole new one for $600 or so.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do you have a link to the conversion kits that allow gas, propane and
NG selection all in one?

http://www.propane-generators.com/

Check out the type 4 kit.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I want a conversion kit to run my snow blower on Natural Gas.

Oh yeah...and a long flexible hose.

I'd figure kerosene at 130,000 BTU per gallon, some where
around there. Figure about the same for gasoline. I'd be
within one or two order of magnitude.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
news On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:52:42 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Engine puts out a lot of heat. Not sure how many BTU per
hour that is, but it would be considerable. Summer time
power cuts, you'd want to vent the heat out doors some
how.

An engine will put out at least 3-4x the heat as useful work
(20-25%
efficient). 1kWh ~ 3400BTU, so figure 10,000-15,000
BTU/hour per kW
generated.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:15:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


" wrote:

Nah, gamers need to move out of mommy's basement and get a life.


How do you get them out of the basement without cutting holes in
walls & floor, and using a crane?

Bust a gas line, wait an hour..and toss a flare through a basement
window.

Works just fine. And is a good thing..
Urban Renewal might even get you a grant.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Nov 14, 5:52*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Engine puts out a lot of heat. Not sure how many BTU per
hour that is, but it would be considerable. Summer time
power cuts, you'd want to vent the heat out doors some *how.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...
On Nov 14, 3:30 pm, "Existential Angst"

wrote:

Also, I was thinking of keeping mine inside, as the gas
line and breaker
panels are close by, and venting the exhaust outside.

Good/bad idear? It would solve the theft problem, f'sure.
Mebbe put an
inline duct fan to generate some suction, to make sure ALL
the exhaust is
exhausted.
--
EA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd investigate the potential code issues. *Not sure if
there are
any, but I'd at least look into it. *The ones I'm familiar
with have
all been outside. *Not sure what the exhaust gases consist
of,
but I would not be surprised if the exhaust had a lot more
CO
than say a stove or furnace, so if the vent system should
fail,
could be a problem. *I'd also check the Genrac websit, which
probably has something to say about the matter. *Or read the
install manual and see what it says.

"Engine puts out a lot of heat."

If you installed it inside, and they put out so much heat, then you
wouldn't need to run your furnace which means you wouldn't need to run
the generator.

Think of the savings.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:00:02 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'd figure kerosene at 130,000 BTU per gallon, some where
around there. Figure about the same for gasoline. I'd be
within one or two order of magnitude.

Sure, but then you'd need to know how fast it burned fuel.

http://www.outokumpu.com/Industry-of...ble-by-Nexans/


"Steve B" wrote in message .. .
Totally as an aside, FYI, and all that, on the offshore rigs, natural gas
would be taken out of the wellhead, refined slightly (probably the water and
particulates filtered out), then used to power the pumps that pumped the
rest to the refineries.

Steve

DerbyDad03 wrote:

I want a conversion kit to run my snow blower on Natural Gas.

Oh yeah...and a long flexible hose.

No need for the hose if you get a conversion kit for propane. Couple of
coat-hangers to attach the tank to the handle-bars and you're good to go.

You may have to hook up a heater for the propane tank... or use butane.

"HeyBub" wrote in news:G-
:

DerbyDad03 wrote:

I want a conversion kit to run my snow blower on Natural Gas.

Oh yeah...and a long flexible hose.

No need for the hose if you get a conversion kit for propane. Couple of
coat-hangers to attach the tank to the handle-bars and you're good to go.

You may have to hook up a heater for the propane tank... or use butane.

Butane freezes at much higher temps than propane - butane ~-0.5°C, propane
~-40°F/C.
See http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/501hcboilingpts.html


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Nov 15, 4:45*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

I want a conversion kit to run my snow blower on Natural Gas.

Oh yeah...and a long flexible hose.

No need for the hose if you get a conversion kit for propane. Couple of
coat-hangers to attach the tank to the handle-bars and you're good to go.

You may have to hook up a heater for the propane tank... or use butane.

Good idea.

I'll get a Natural Gas heater to keep the propane tank warm.

Oh yeah...and a long flexible hose.