Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have found
a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage. I have
started scanning receipts and putting them on "The Cloud" This will
come in handy if I have an insurance claim or warranty claim.

If you scan the image as a jpg, you can use MsPaint to black out any
credit card info.

I also use Yahoo calendar to record big purchases with a 1 year
reminder. This is a pretty good way to keep up with how long
something is under warranty.

--
O'Neil to General Hammond:
For the record Sir, I wanted to blow it the hell up.

On 4/22/2011 11:35 AM Metspitzer spake thus:

Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have found
a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage. I have
started scanning receipts and putting them on "The Cloud" This will
come in handy if I have an insurance claim or warranty claim.

If you scan the image as a jpg, you can use MsPaint to black out any
credit card info.

If you get a real paint program, instead of that miserable excuse (I use
Paint Shop Pro, probably now out of print, probably can get it for free
somewhere), you can not only do that easily, but also reduce the number
of colors and save an image as a tiny .GIF. Far smaller than unwieldy
JPEGs, recognized world-wide by all browsers and mail clients.


--
The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization:

yo
wassup
nuttin
wan2 hang
k
where
here
k
l8tr
by

- from Usenet (what's *that*?)

On Apr 22, 3:24*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/22/2011 11:35 AM Metspitzer spake thus:

Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have found
a use for it. *Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage. * I have
started scanning receipts and putting them on "The Cloud" *This will
come in handy if I have an insurance claim or warranty claim.

If you scan the image as a jpg, you can use MsPaint to black out any
credit card info.

If you get a real paint program, instead of that miserable excuse (I use
Paint Shop Pro, probably now out of print, probably can get it for free
somewhere), you can not only do that easily, but also reduce the number
of colors and save an image as a tiny .GIF. Far smaller than unwieldy
JPEGs, recognized world-wide by all browsers and mail clients.

try the GIMP.

nate

On 4/22/2011 2:35 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have found
a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage. I have
started scanning receipts and putting them on "The Cloud" This will
come in handy if I have an insurance claim or warranty claim.

If you scan the image as a jpg, you can use MsPaint to black out any
credit card info.

I also use Yahoo calendar to record big purchases with a 1 year
reminder. This is a pretty good way to keep up with how long
something is under warranty.

--
O'Neil to General Hammond:
For the record Sir, I wanted to blow it the hell up.

I got Carbonite. It automatically backs up all files on your computer
for $55/year. I was mostly concerned about loss of business records and
email and consider it a business expense. It was getting tiresome
putting stuff on DVD's and while I could have a ton of storage on my
websites or isp, I'd still have to upload. Carbonite does it
automatically every time a new file is added or an old one changed.

Metspitzer wrote:
Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have found
a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage.

A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's server.
Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.

Jon

Jon Danniken wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:
Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have found
a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage.

A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's
server. Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.


Yep. Pretty cheap.

There's a current ad on Houston Craigslist for 40Gig hard drives at $11
each. Hundreds in stock (I've seen 'em).

The dude buys computers that come back off of lease and almost all the
computers he purchases have no hard drives. So he buys container loads of
refurbished (?) drives to install in these back-from-lease machines.

Me? I'm content to use the 40Gig hard drives I find in the bottom of
CrackerJack boxes.

On 4/22/2011 12:40 PM N8N spake thus:

On Apr 22, 3:24 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/22/2011 11:35 AM Metspitzer spake thus:

Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have
found a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage. I
have started scanning receipts and putting them on "The Cloud"
This will come in handy if I have an insurance claim or warranty
claim.

If you scan the image as a jpg, you can use MsPaint to black out
any credit card info.

If you get a real paint program, instead of that miserable excuse
(I use Paint Shop Pro, probably now out of print, probably can get
it for free somewhere), you can not only do that easily, but also
reduce the number of colors and save an image as a tiny .GIF. Far
smaller than unwieldy JPEGs, recognized world-wide by all browsers
and mail clients.

try the GIMP.

Well, *I* won't, 'cause I've had more than my share of problems with
open-source software, and I'm totally happy with PSP. Nothing it can't
do that I need, and it's really easy to use. But the O.P. might want to
try it.


--
The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization:

yo
wassup
nuttin
wan2 hang
k
where
here
k
l8tr
by

- from Usenet (what's *that*?)

On 4/22/2011 1:08 PM Frank spake thus:

On 4/22/2011 2:35 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have
found a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage. I
have started scanning receipts and putting them on "The Cloud"
This will come in handy if I have an insurance claim or warranty
claim.

If you scan the image as a jpg, you can use MsPaint to black out
any credit card info.

I also use Yahoo calendar to record big purchases with a 1 year
reminder. This is a pretty good way to keep up with how long
something is under warranty.

I got Carbonite. It automatically backs up all files on your computer
for $55/year. I was mostly concerned about loss of business records and
email and consider it a business expense. It was getting tiresome
putting stuff on DVD's and while I could have a ton of storage on my
websites or isp, I'd still have to upload. Carbonite does it
automatically every time a new file is added or an old one changed.

So how secure is it? Any way someone can snoop on your private stuff?

I don't think I'd ever trust "the cloud". I like knowing exactly where
my data is, and who has access to it.


--
The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization:

yo
wassup
nuttin
wan2 hang
k
where
here
k
l8tr
by

- from Usenet (what's *that*?)

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's
server. Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.


Yep. Pretty cheap.

There's a current ad on Houston Craigslist for 40Gig hard drives at $11
each. Hundreds in stock (I've seen 'em).

The dude buys computers that come back off of lease and almost all the
computers he purchases have no hard drives. So he buys container loads of
refurbished (?) drives to install in these back-from-lease machines.

Me? I'm content to use the 40Gig hard drives I find in the bottom of
CrackerJack boxes.

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80 for a
500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you just plug
them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one of those
that make several backups.

On 4/22/2011 6:22 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/22/2011 1:08 PM Frank spake thus:

On 4/22/2011 2:35 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have
found a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage. I
have started scanning receipts and putting them on "The Cloud"
This will come in handy if I have an insurance claim or warranty
claim.

If you scan the image as a jpg, you can use MsPaint to black out
any credit card info.

I also use Yahoo calendar to record big purchases with a 1 year
reminder. This is a pretty good way to keep up with how long
something is under warranty.

I got Carbonite. It automatically backs up all files on your computer
for $55/year. I was mostly concerned about loss of business records
and email and consider it a business expense. It was getting tiresome
putting stuff on DVD's and while I could have a ton of storage on my
websites or isp, I'd still have to upload. Carbonite does it
automatically every time a new file is added or an old one changed.

So how secure is it? Any way someone can snoop on your private stuff?

I don't think I'd ever trust "the cloud". I like knowing exactly where
my data is, and who has access to it.


Better be secure.
Maybe people hack in but why would they want to see my stuff?
Any computer or computer system hooked up to the internet is subject to
hacking.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's
server. Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.


Yep. Pretty cheap.

There's a current ad on Houston Craigslist for 40Gig hard drives at
$11 each. Hundreds in stock (I've seen 'em).

The dude buys computers that come back off of lease and almost all
the computers he purchases have no hard drives. So he buys container
loads of refurbished (?) drives to install in these back-from-lease
machines.

Me? I'm content to use the 40Gig hard drives I find in the bottom of
CrackerJack boxes.

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you
just plug them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one of
those that make several backups.




Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a couple of years and
then were unreadable.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's
server. Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.


Yep. Pretty cheap.

There's a current ad on Houston Craigslist for 40Gig hard drives at
$11 each. Hundreds in stock (I've seen 'em).

The dude buys computers that come back off of lease and almost all
the computers he purchases have no hard drives. So he buys container
loads of refurbished (?) drives to install in these back-from-lease
machines.

Me? I'm content to use the 40Gig hard drives I find in the bottom of
CrackerJack boxes.

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you
just plug them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one
of those that make several backups.




Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a couple of
years and then were unreadable.

this info is available at the manufacturers sites. for verbatim at
http://www.verbatim.com/subcat/optic...de-gold-dvd-r/
they claim 100 years for this brand and style.

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you
just plug them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one of
those that make several backups.




Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a couple of years and
then were unreadable.


Were you using the CDs all the time or just putting them back for backups
and only using them a few times ?

I just checked two , one made in March 1999 and another made in July 2001 .
They both seemed ok to me. I checked several .gif and jpg files and some
movies. Also some audio files and a couple of old dos programs.

On Apr 22, 7:41*pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote :





"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's
server. Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.

Yep. Pretty cheap.

There's a current ad on Houston Craigslist for 40Gig hard drives at
$11 each. Hundreds in stock (I've seen 'em).

The dude buys computers that come back off of lease and almost all
the computers he purchases have no hard drives. So he buys container
loads of refurbished (?) drives to install in these back-from-lease
machines.

Me? I'm content to use the 40Gig hard drives I find in the bottom of
CrackerJack boxes.

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 *GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. *Also you
just plug them *into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. *Guess that I am one of
those that make several backups.

Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a couple of years and
then were unreadable.

CDs? I've got music on CDs that I made back in '99 from Napster that
still play just fine.

On 04/22/11 06:22 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have
found a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage. I
have started scanning receipts and putting them on "The Cloud"
This will come in handy if I have an insurance claim or warranty
claim.

If you scan the image as a jpg, you can use MsPaint to black out
any credit card info.

I also use Yahoo calendar to record big purchases with a 1 year
reminder. This is a pretty good way to keep up with how long
something is under warranty.

I got Carbonite. It automatically backs up all files on your computer
for $55/year. I was mostly concerned about loss of business records
and email and consider it a business expense. It was getting tiresome
putting stuff on DVD's and while I could have a ton of storage on my
websites or isp, I'd still have to upload. Carbonite does it
automatically every time a new file is added or an old one changed.

So how secure is it? Any way someone can snoop on your private stuff?

I don't think I'd ever trust "the cloud". I like knowing exactly where
my data is, and who has access to it.

In the dim and distant past (a few decades ago) we had computer centers
that stored "our" data somewhere in our various companies. Then we got
"personal" computers, so that "our" data was stored on our own computers
on (or under, or beside) our own desks rather than in the computer
center down the corridor, or in the next building, or in the corporate
data center in another state or another country. Now we're supposed to
store "our" data in "the cloud," which is operated by a totally separate
company, one whose interests might be totally at odds with ours; and we
have no idea where in the whole world that data is actually stored. I'd
say that this is a backward step -- or maybe a few thousand backward steps.

Perce

"Ralph Mowery" wrote

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80 for a
500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you just plug
them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one of
those that make several backups.


The nice thing about DVD is you can take them off site and won't be lost in
a fire/flood/tornado situation. Store one in your desk or toolbox at work.
Label it "exercise and diet plan" and no one will ever touch it.

On Apr 22, 11:58*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80 for a
500 *GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. *Also you just plug
them *into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. *Guess that I am one of
those that make several backups.

The nice thing about DVD is you can take them off site and won't be lost in
a fire/flood/tornado situation. * Store one in your desk or toolbox at work.
Label it "exercise and diet plan" and no one will ever touch it.

Just put it in a safety deposit box at your bank if it's that valuable.

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 23:58:11 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


"Ralph Mowery" wrote

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80 for a
500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you just plug
them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one of
those that make several backups.


The nice thing about DVD is you can take them off site and won't be lost in
a fire/flood/tornado situation. Store one in your desk or toolbox at work.
Label it "exercise and diet plan" and no one will ever touch it.

Hard disks are cheap, far more reliable, and almost as portable.

On Apr 23, 12:38*am, "
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 23:58:11 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"Ralph Mowery" wrote

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80 for a
500 *GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. *Also you just plug
them *into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. *Guess that I am one of
those that make several backups.

The nice thing about DVD is you can take them off site and won't be lost in
a fire/flood/tornado situation. * Store one in your desk or toolbox at work.
Label it "exercise and diet plan" and no one will ever touch it.

Hard disks are cheap, far more reliable, and almost as portable.

How are HDD more reliable then DVDs? Especially if you make several
copies?

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 21:45:47 -0700 (PDT), Ron wrote:

On Apr 23, 12:38*am, "
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 23:58:11 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"Ralph Mowery" wrote

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80 for a
500 *GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. *Also you just plug
them *into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. *Guess that I am one of
those that make several backups.

The nice thing about DVD is you can take them off site and won't be lost in
a fire/flood/tornado situation. * Store one in your desk or toolbox at work.
Label it "exercise and diet plan" and no one will ever touch it.

Hard disks are cheap, far more reliable, and almost as portable.

How are HDD more reliable then DVDs? Especially if you make several
copies?

DVDs suck. They age and there is no telling when you're going to get an error
creep in. They really aren't designed for data.

On 4/22/2011 2:35 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have found
a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage. I have
started scanning receipts and putting them on "The Cloud" This will
come in handy if I have an insurance claim or warranty claim.

If you scan the image as a jpg, you can use MsPaint to black out any
credit card info.

I also use Yahoo calendar to record big purchases with a 1 year
reminder. This is a pretty good way to keep up with how long
something is under warranty.

--
O'Neil to General Hammond:
For the record Sir, I wanted to blow it the hell up.

I am not really interested in storing my information on someone elses
system even though the marketing department has decided to call it "the
cloud".

External hard drives are inexpensive. I have two drives that I rotate
and store properly. Automatic backup software does the rest and I retain
control of my data.

Ralph Mowery wrote:

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you
just plug them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one
of those that make several backups.

True. The downside is that USB drives are pitifully slow compared to an
internal drive, 480Mbps vs. 6Gbps. An internal SATA drive has roughly twelve
times the transfer rate of a USB drive.

On 4/23/2011 7:46 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you
just plug them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one
of those that make several backups.

True. The downside is that USB drives are pitifully slow compared to an
internal drive, 480Mbps vs. 6Gbps. An internal SATA drive has roughly twelve
times the transfer rate of a USB drive.



Agreed, but not that big a deal for doing backups, since you can light
it up and walk away. (Unless of course you are doing manual backups.)

--
aem sends...

In article , George
wrote:

I am not really interested in storing my information on someone elses
system even though the marketing department has decided to call it "the
cloud".

What if they called it the "soft cute furry kitten?" Would that change
your mind?

I've also wondered that. I've got some CD going back a few
years. I should check them, for fun.

--
..
"Ron" wrote in message
...

Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will
last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a
couple of years and
then were unreadable.

CDs? I've got music on CDs that I made back in '99 from
Napster that
still play just fine.

On Sat, 23 Apr 2011 06:46:28 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote:

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you
just plug them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one
of those that make several backups.

I have two USB drives. I back up my laptop to one weekly, then copy that to
the other when I get around to it (probably every three months).

True. The downside is that USB drives are pitifully slow compared to an
internal drive, 480Mbps vs. 6Gbps. An internal SATA drive has roughly twelve
times the transfer rate of a USB drive.

The difference is not that great. The sustained transfer rate to the drive is
nowhere near 6Gbps (more like 1Gbps for the fastest drives on the market).

In any case, it's several orders of magnitude faster than DVD.

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 20:15:41 -0700 (PDT), Ron wrote:

On Apr 22, 7:41*pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote :





"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's
server. Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.

Yep. Pretty cheap.

There's a current ad on Houston Craigslist for 40Gig hard drives at
$11 each. Hundreds in stock (I've seen 'em).

The dude buys computers that come back off of lease and almost all
the computers he purchases have no hard drives. So he buys container
loads of refurbished (?) drives to install in these back-from-lease
machines.

Me? I'm content to use the 40Gig hard drives I find in the bottom of
CrackerJack boxes.

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 *GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. *Also you
just plug them *into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. *Guess that I am one of
those that make several backups.

Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a couple of years and
then were unreadable.

CDs? I've got music on CDs that I made back in '99 from Napster that
still play just fine.

You won't notice sparse errors on music CDs.

On Apr 22, 4:49*pm, "chaniarts" wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's
server. Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.

Yep. Pretty cheap.

There's a current ad on Houston Craigslist for 40Gig hard drives at
$11 each. Hundreds in stock (I've seen 'em).

The dude buys computers that come back off of lease and almost all
the computers he purchases have no hard drives. So he buys container
loads of refurbished (?) drives to install in these back-from-lease
machines.

Me? I'm content to use the 40Gig hard drives I find in the bottom of
CrackerJack boxes.

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 *GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. *Also you
just plug them *into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. *Guess that I am one
of those that make several backups.

Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a couple of
years and then were unreadable.

this info is available at the manufacturers sites. for verbatim athttp://www.verbatim.com/subcat/optical-media/dvd/archival-grade-gold-...
they claim 100 years for this brand and style.

Here's what Amazon shows for these "archival" DVDs that they claim
will last 100 years.

==============
Verbatim 95355 UltraLife 4.7 GB 8x Gold Archival Grade DVD-R, 50-Disc
Spindle
by Verbatim
3.8 out of 5 stars See all reviews (25 customer reviews) | Like (0)
List Price: $160.00
Price: $72.28 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.
Details
You Save: $87.72 (55%)

24 new from $72.28
Size: 50-Disc
5-Disc
50-Disc
=================

I'm leaning toward trying these rather than get another external HD.
(I won't be around in 100 years to call them a liar if it doesn't work
g)

Only thing I'm not sure about is the transfer rate. Some posts on
here mentioned very slow transfer rate? Excuse dumb question, but is
that when transferring from the computer to the DVD?

Also, what is the rate when transferring back from DVD to computer
(assuming there's a reason to do that).

Also: Why DVD when data only requires HD? I can see DVD for
photos, etc, but otherwise?

HB

Metspitzer wrote the following:
Although "The Cloud" is not something I consider secure, I have found
a use for it. Google docs gives you 5 gig of storage. I have
started scanning receipts and putting them on "The Cloud" This will
come in handy if I have an insurance claim or warranty claim.

If you scan the image as a jpg, you can use MsPaint to black out any
credit card info.

I also use Yahoo calendar to record big purchases with a 1 year
reminder. This is a pretty good way to keep up with how long
something is under warranty.

--
O'Neil to General Hammond:
For the record Sir, I wanted to blow it the hell up.


Buy an external HD that is connected to your computer vis USB. You can
get them in many capacities cheaply.
Seagate has a 500 Gigabyte external HD for $60. Put all your valuable
stuff on there for storage. Pull the USB plug until you need to store or
retrieve your data.
Storing your data on some server that can access your data is not very
secure.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
m:


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...


Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a couple of
years and then were unreadable.


Were you using the CDs all the time or just putting them back for
backups and only using them a few times ?

I just checked two , one made in March 1999 and another made in July
2001 . They both seemed ok to me. I checked several .gif and jpg
files and some movies. Also some audio files and a couple of old dos
programs.

were you checking DVDs or CDs?




I didn't look at my CDs for a couple of years,then found they were
unreadable;some files would read,others would not.Maybe I used cheapo CDs.

I've read of other people having the same problem with home-burned CDs.
(not stamped-out CDs.)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
4...
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
m:

I just checked two , one made in March 1999 and another made in July
2001 . They both seemed ok to me. I checked several .gif and jpg
files and some movies. Also some audio files and a couple of old dos
programs.

were you checking DVDs or CDs?




I didn't look at my CDs for a couple of years,then found they were
unreadable;some files would read,others would not.Maybe I used cheapo CDs.

I've read of other people having the same problem with home-burned CDs.
(not stamped-out CDs.)


They were CDs. When they were made, I don't think you could get a DVD
burner for a computer back in 99, but may be mistaken. Computers advance
way too fast to keep up with.

On 4/23/2011 4:02 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Apr 22, 4:49 pm, wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph wrote in
:

wrote in message
...
A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's
server. Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.

Yep. Pretty cheap.

There's a current ad on Houston Craigslist for 40Gig hard drives at
$11 each. Hundreds in stock (I've seen 'em).

The dude buys computers that come back off of lease and almost all
the computers he purchases have no hard drives. So he buys container
loads of refurbished (?) drives to install in these back-from-lease
machines.

Me? I'm content to use the 40Gig hard drives I find in the bottom of
CrackerJack boxes.

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you
just plug them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one
of those that make several backups.

Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a couple of
years and then were unreadable.

this info is available at the manufacturers sites. for verbatim athttp://www.verbatim.com/subcat/optical-media/dvd/archival-grade-gold-...
they claim 100 years for this brand and style.

Here's what Amazon shows for these "archival" DVDs that they claim
will last 100 years.

==============
Verbatim 95355 UltraLife 4.7 GB 8x Gold Archival Grade DVD-R, 50-Disc
Spindle
by Verbatim
3.8 out of 5 stars See all reviews (25 customer reviews) | Like (0)
List Price: $160.00
Price: $72.28& this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.
Details
You Save: $87.72 (55%)

24 new from $72.28
Size: 50-Disc
5-Disc
50-Disc
=================

I'm leaning toward trying these rather than get another external HD.
(I won't be around in 100 years to call them a liar if it doesn't work
g)

Only thing I'm not sure about is the transfer rate. Some posts on
here mentioned very slow transfer rate? Excuse dumb question, but is
that when transferring from the computer to the DVD?

Also, what is the rate when transferring back from DVD to computer
(assuming there's a reason to do that).

Also: Why DVD when data only requires HD? I can see DVD for
photos, etc, but otherwise?

HB



I'll throw in- it isn't just the quality of the blank media, it is the
quality of the drive. Not as much of a problem as it used to be, but
sometimes you still get disks that will read fine on the drive they were
burned on, but not on a different drive. Hint- pay the extra 5-10 bucks
and get a drive that actually has a brand name on it. It makes a
difference.

--
aem sends...

On 4/23/2011 10:25 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 4/23/2011 4:02 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Apr 22, 4:49 pm, wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph wrote in
:

wrote in message
...
A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's
server. Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.

Yep. Pretty cheap.

There's a current ad on Houston Craigslist for 40Gig hard drives at
$11 each. Hundreds in stock (I've seen 'em).

The dude buys computers that come back off of lease and almost all
the computers he purchases have no hard drives. So he buys container
loads of refurbished (?) drives to install in these back-from-lease
machines.

Me? I'm content to use the 40Gig hard drives I find in the bottom of
CrackerJack boxes.

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you
just plug them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one
of those that make several backups.

Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a couple of
years and then were unreadable.

this info is available at the manufacturers sites. for verbatim
athttp://www.verbatim.com/subcat/optical-media/dvd/archival-grade-gold-...

they claim 100 years for this brand and style.

Here's what Amazon shows for these "archival" DVDs that they claim
will last 100 years.

==============
Verbatim 95355 UltraLife 4.7 GB 8x Gold Archival Grade DVD-R, 50-Disc
Spindle
by Verbatim
3.8 out of 5 stars See all reviews (25 customer reviews) | Like (0)
List Price: $160.00
Price: $72.28& this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.
Details
You Save: $87.72 (55%)

24 new from $72.28
Size: 50-Disc
5-Disc
50-Disc
=================

I'm leaning toward trying these rather than get another external HD.
(I won't be around in 100 years to call them a liar if it doesn't work
g)

Only thing I'm not sure about is the transfer rate. Some posts on
here mentioned very slow transfer rate? Excuse dumb question, but is
that when transferring from the computer to the DVD?

Also, what is the rate when transferring back from DVD to computer
(assuming there's a reason to do that).

Also: Why DVD when data only requires HD? I can see DVD for
photos, etc, but otherwise?

HB



I'll throw in- it isn't just the quality of the blank media, it is the
quality of the drive. Not as much of a problem as it used to be, but
sometimes you still get disks that will read fine on the drive they were
burned on, but not on a different drive. Hint- pay the extra 5-10 bucks
and get a drive that actually has a brand name on it. It makes a
difference.


I just thought of an interesting problem the government has been running
into with data storage media. The equipment isn't around
anymore to read the old tapes. They're having to hunt down retired
IBM, UNIVAC, DEC, etc engineers to help them get the information
off those old data tapes. I wonder if someone or some international
group can come up with a standard archival media that will stay in
use for a century or more? Oh yea, and a standard digital format to
go along with it.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
snip

I just thought of an interesting problem the government has been running
into with data storage media. The equipment isn't around
anymore to read the old tapes. They're having to hunt down retired
IBM, UNIVAC, DEC, etc engineers to help them get the information
off those old data tapes. I wonder if someone or some international
group can come up with a standard archival media that will stay in
use for a century or more? Oh yea, and a standard digital format to
go along with it.

TDD
We all have that problem. I had to copy my VIC20 cassette tapes to
floppy, then to high density floppy, then to zip disks, then to cd,
then to dvd. For many of us, the amount of data is small enough that
we can copy it to new technology before the old wears out.
And it's much easier to keep all the old stuff than to try to sort it.

But I still have all 80GB of stuff on the primary hard drive.
It's quicker to search the whole thing for a driver than to try to
figger out which DVD it's on.

On 4/24/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
(snip)

I just thought of an interesting problem the government has been running
into with data storage media. The equipment isn't around
anymore to read the old tapes. They're having to hunt down retired
IBM, UNIVAC, DEC, etc engineers to help them get the information
off those old data tapes. I wonder if someone or some international
group can come up with a standard archival media that will stay in
use for a century or more? Oh yea, and a standard digital format to
go along with it.

TDD

Yes, it has been a problem at times. There are data retrieval companies
out there that maintain libraries of obsolete hardware and software just
for such occasions. And there are standards, so resurrecting engineers
is seldom needed (assuming you can figure out which standard was used.)
But if you go to data backup school, the first class describes the
principles of how to avoid that. You have to constantly maintain your
backups, testing them, refreshing them, and moving them to new media as
required. As you might imagine, in a budget crunch, that is often pushed
back to 'later', And since nobody can afford to back up everything
forever, you have to decide how long data needs to be kept, and which
data to spend the money on. Choose wisely, lest Murphy rise up and bite
your posterior.

I don't recall the specifics offhand, but there are indeed efforts to
come up with a universal standard for modern fancy documents, one that
doesn't care what media it is stored on. National Archives and Records
Administration (NARA) is driving that train, IIRC, and I'm sure Library
of Congress has a seat at the table. Older data is less of an issue,
since ASCII and such are well documented and accepted. The pile is so
huge that standards for the meta-data for each chunk of data, are just
as important as the data set itself. Imagine having 100 unlabeled CDs,
and trying to find something on them. Now imagine a data pile the size
of a million CDs, without an index.

Of course, for really important stuff, no electronic media yet beats
hardcopy, printed or etched on something that won't turn to dust in 20
years, and stored in a controlled environment.

--
aem sends...

On 4/24/2011 1:18 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 4/23/2011 10:25 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 4/23/2011 4:02 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Apr 22, 4:49 pm, wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph wrote in
:

wrote in message
...
A DVD blank is 4.7GB, and you're not putting it on someone else's
server. Alternately, an extra HDD is dirt cheap these days.

Yep. Pretty cheap.

There's a current ad on Houston Craigslist for 40Gig hard drives at
$11 each. Hundreds in stock (I've seen 'em).

The dude buys computers that come back off of lease and almost all
the computers he purchases have no hard drives. So he buys container
loads of refurbished (?) drives to install in these back-from-lease
machines.

Me? I'm content to use the 40Gig hard drives I find in the bottom of
CrackerJack boxes.

With the price of external hard drives going from about $ 50 to $ 80
for a 500 GB to 1K GB, it is even cheaper to buy them new. Also you
just plug them into the usb port.
I still like the dvds for the important stuff. Guess that I am one
of those that make several backups.

Anyone done any studies on HOW LONG a home-burned DVD will last?
I burned some CD-Roms,and they didn't last more than a couple of
years and then were unreadable.

this info is available at the manufacturers sites. for verbatim
athttp://www.verbatim.com/subcat/optical-media/dvd/archival-grade-gold-...


they claim 100 years for this brand and style.

Here's what Amazon shows for these "archival" DVDs that they claim
will last 100 years.

==============
Verbatim 95355 UltraLife 4.7 GB 8x Gold Archival Grade DVD-R, 50-Disc
Spindle
by Verbatim
3.8 out of 5 stars See all reviews (25 customer reviews) | Like (0)
List Price: $160.00
Price: $72.28& this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.
Details
You Save: $87.72 (55%)

24 new from $72.28
Size: 50-Disc
5-Disc
50-Disc
=================

I'm leaning toward trying these rather than get another external HD.
(I won't be around in 100 years to call them a liar if it doesn't work
g)

Only thing I'm not sure about is the transfer rate. Some posts on
here mentioned very slow transfer rate? Excuse dumb question, but is
that when transferring from the computer to the DVD?

Also, what is the rate when transferring back from DVD to computer
(assuming there's a reason to do that).

Also: Why DVD when data only requires HD? I can see DVD for
photos, etc, but otherwise?

HB



I'll throw in- it isn't just the quality of the blank media, it is the
quality of the drive. Not as much of a problem as it used to be, but
sometimes you still get disks that will read fine on the drive they were
burned on, but not on a different drive. Hint- pay the extra 5-10 bucks
and get a drive that actually has a brand name on it. It makes a
difference.


I just thought of an interesting problem the government has been running
into with data storage media. The equipment isn't around
anymore to read the old tapes. They're having to hunt down retired
IBM, UNIVAC, DEC, etc engineers to help them get the information
off those old data tapes. I wonder if someone or some international
group can come up with a standard archival media that will stay in
use for a century or more? Oh yea, and a standard digital format to
go along with it.

TDD

The government would simply need to do a little planning...

It has been well known for a long time that if you want to preserve data
you need to move it to different media as time goes on. In the case of
some media you need to rewrite the data to insure it doesn't degrade
along the way.

On 4/24/2011 4:34 AM aemeijers spake thus:

I don't recall the specifics offhand, but there are indeed efforts to
come up with a universal standard for modern fancy documents, one that
doesn't care what media it is stored on. National Archives and Records
Administration (NARA) is driving that train, IIRC, and I'm sure Library
of Congress has a seat at the table.

How in the world could the format of a document have *anything* to do
with the medium it's stored on?

The only possible case I can think of would be an old database or other
indexed document stored using ISAM or some other obsolete storage method
on an IBM mainframe.

I've worked in the media conversion business, so I know something
whereof I speak.

There are (more or less) universal standards available today. Let's look
at them:

o ASCII: the simplest form of text storage possible. Hasn't changed much
since Day One. Even 7-bit ASCII documents could easily be read by most
computer systems in use today.

o PDF: a de facto standard. Few computers in use today that can't read
this format. (Of course, it suffers from some defects, owing to its
semi-proprietary status as a creation of Adobe, but despite this it
pretty much lives up to its claim of being a "portable document format".)

o RTF: although too closely associated with Microsoft Word, this is in
fact a very widely-accepted and understood document format. Certainly
any working copy of Word (or Open Office) will accept a RTF doc.

Older data is less of an issue, since ASCII and such are well
documented and accepted. The pile is so huge that standards for the
meta-data for each chunk of data, are just as important as the data
set itself. Imagine having 100 unlabeled CDs, and trying to find
something on them. Now imagine a data pile the size of a million CDs,
without an index.

There is certainly a humungous pile of document formats, most of them
moldering on the dustheap of history. I used to work for a company that
specialized in oddball data format conversion software, and just off the
top of my head, there is:

o Wang (word processing systems)
o DEC (proprietary formats)
o Lanier (word processing)
o EBCDIC
o Halo CUT (graphic images)
o GEM (old Ventura Publisher)
o PICT
o Word Perfect (still in use, I guess, at least by lawyers)
o WordStar
o Lotus 1-2-3

(I mixed in some graphic formats there just for fun)

Of course, for really important stuff, no electronic media yet beats
hardcopy, printed or etched on something that won't turn to dust in 20
years, and stored in a controlled environment.

Yes. The value of printed documentation is highly underrated.


--
The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization:

yo
wassup
nuttin
wan2 hang
k
where
here
k
l8tr
by

- from Usenet (what's *that*?)

On 04/24/11 05:12 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

snip

There are (more or less) universal standards available today. Let's look
at them:

o ASCII: the simplest form of text storage possible. Hasn't changed much
since Day One. Even 7-bit ASCII documents could easily be read by most
computer systems in use today.

o PDF: a de facto standard. Few computers in use today that can't read
this format. (Of course, it suffers from some defects, owing to its
semi-proprietary status as a creation of Adobe, but despite this it
pretty much lives up to its claim of being a "portable document format".)

o RTF: although too closely associated with Microsoft Word, this is in
fact a very widely-accepted and understood document format. Certainly
any working copy of Word (or Open Office) will accept a RTF doc.

Surely there was a non-proprietary RTF format long before M$ came up
with their not-completely-compatible format by the same name, wasn't there?

Perce

On 4/24/2011 2:26 PM Percival P. Cassidy spake thus:

On 04/24/11 05:12 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

snip

There are (more or less) universal standards available today. Let's
look at them:

o ASCII: the simplest form of text storage possible. Hasn't changed
much since Day One. Even 7-bit ASCII documents could easily be read
by most computer systems in use today.

o PDF: a de facto standard. Few computers in use today that can't
read this format. (Of course, it suffers from some defects, owing
to its semi-proprietary status as a creation of Adobe, but despite
this it pretty much lives up to its claim of being a "portable
document format".)

o RTF: although too closely associated with Microsoft Word, this is
in fact a very widely-accepted and understood document format.
Certainly any working copy of Word (or Open Office) will accept a
RTF doc.

Surely there was a non-proprietary RTF format long before M$ came up
with their not-completely-compatible format by the same name, wasn't there?

Ackshooly, so far as I know, RTF is totally non-proprietary and is part
of the SAA/CUA guidelines. Micro$oft may have tried to hijack it for
their own purposes (Word's .doc format is just RTF-in-a-wrapper so far
as I know), it remains firmly in the public domain.


--
The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization:

yo
wassup
nuttin
wan2 hang
k
where
here
k
l8tr
by

- from Usenet (what's *that*?)

On Apr 24, 2:12*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/24/2011 4:34 AM aemeijers spake thus:

I don't recall the specifics offhand, but there are indeed efforts to
come up with a universal standard for modern fancy documents, one that
doesn't care what media it is stored on. National Archives and Records
Administration (NARA) is driving that train, IIRC, and I'm sure Library
of Congress has a seat at the table.

How in the world could the format of a document have *anything* to do
with the medium it's stored on?

The only possible case I can think of would be an old database or other
indexed document stored using ISAM or some other obsolete storage method
on an IBM mainframe.

I've worked in the media conversion business, so I know something
whereof I speak.

There are (more or less) universal standards available today. Let's look
at them:

o ASCII: the simplest form of text storage possible. Hasn't changed much
since Day One. Even 7-bit ASCII documents could easily be read by most
computer systems in use today.

o PDF: a de facto standard. Few computers in use today that can't read
this format. (Of course, it suffers from some defects, owing to its
semi-proprietary status as a creation of Adobe, but despite this it
pretty much lives up to its claim of being a "portable document format".)

o RTF: although too closely associated with Microsoft Word, this is in
fact a very widely-accepted and understood document format. Certainly
any working copy of Word (or Open Office) will accept a RTF doc.

Older data is less of an issue, since ASCII and such are well
documented and accepted. The pile is so huge that standards for the
meta-data for each chunk of data, are just as important as the data
set itself. Imagine having 100 unlabeled CDs, and trying to find
something on them. Now imagine a data pile the size of a million CDs,
without an index.

There is certainly a humungous pile of document formats, most of them
moldering on the dustheap of history. I used to work for a company that
specialized in oddball data format conversion software, and just off the
top of my head, there is:

o Wang (word processing systems)
o DEC (proprietary formats)
o Lanier (word processing)
o EBCDIC
o Halo CUT (graphic images)
o GEM (old Ventura Publisher)
o PICT
o Word Perfect (still in use, I guess, at least by lawyers)
o WordStar
o Lotus 1-2-3

(I mixed in some graphic formats there just for fun)

Of course, for really important stuff, no electronic media yet beats
hardcopy, printed or etched on something that won't turn to dust in 20
years, and stored in a controlled environment.

Yes. The value of printed documentation is highly underrated.

Helpful post, thanks.

Should "printed documentation" of value be on acid-free paper?
Inquiring minds...

HB
* *