Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but not
what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside the stile.

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

On Dec 20, 7:16*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but not
what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside the stile.

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

replace door, for better energy efficency

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:39:09 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 20, 7:16*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but not
what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside the stile.

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

replace door, for better energy efficency

His friends ONLY want the lock changed, Bob!

On Dec 20, 8:11*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:39:09 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Dec 20, 7:16 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but not
what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside the stile.

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

replace door, for better energy efficency

His friends ONLY want the lock changed, Bob!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if the door uses a skelton key it must be ancient with no insulation
or weatherstripping.

as such it might qualify for the energy tax credit, would be more
energy efficent, more secure and little or no maintence.

if a friend asked you to fix their 1980 chevy, wouldnt you at least
mention possible replacement?

On Dec 20, 6:16*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but not
what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside the stile.

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

How tall is top rail? Add a bolt going straight up? Most people can
reach top of a 6'8" door with no problem, and most burglars will never
see it. (Double-key deadbolts being a fire hazard, and thumb-tab
deadbolts being pretty useless close to glass.) If a double door,
does the seldom-used side have the slide bolts at top and bottom?

--
aem sends, stuck on google until the 29th or so....

On 12/20/2010 5:20 PM aemeijers spake thus:

On Dec 20, 6:16 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

How tall is top rail? Add a bolt going straight up? Most people can
reach top of a 6'8" door with no problem, and most burglars will never
see it. (Double-key deadbolts being a fire hazard, and thumb-tab
deadbolts being pretty useless close to glass.) If a double door,
does the seldom-used side have the slide bolts at top and bottom?

Interesting idea, but no; one of the residents is short, so she won't be
able to reach anything that high.

Just the single door. There are slide bolts, but the thing is that this
door is used as a passage, coming in from car parked in the garage in back.

I'm probably going to to with the "Ikon" lock I found at the local
locksmith. It's a small surface-mount deadbolt with a through-keyhole
that can be operated from either side. I'm not thrilled about that
aspect of it, as I really do not like doors that need a key to unlock
from the inside (not to mention that they're illegal), but it's the best
solution I've found so far. About $100 (it's NOS, and the locksmith says
a new one will run at least twice that).

As to the ridiculous suggestion that the door be replaced: it's a
beautiful "storybook" home in San Francisco built in the 1920s, and the
door is an integral part of the house, so thanks but no thanks. And
insulation and "energy efficiency" is not an issue; it's just one lousy
door.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:18:08 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 20, 8:11*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:39:09 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Dec 20, 7:16 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but not
what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside the stile.

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

replace door, for better energy efficency

His friends ONLY want the lock changed, Bob!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if the door uses a skelton key it must be ancient with no insulation
or weatherstripping.


We don't know the door. Modern doors have optional hardware.

as such it might qualify for the energy tax credit, would be more
energy efficent, more secure and little or no maintence.


OP's friends only needs a lock.

if a friend asked you to fix their 1980 chevy, wouldnt you at least
mention possible replacement?

Damn sure would. I'd tell him to buy a Ford.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but not
what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside the
stile.
So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

Why a deadbolt? Wouldn't a simple hook and eye suffice (of sufficient
strength). Just about whatever you mount will be susceptible to manipulation
by breaking a pane.

You COULD mount a key-operated-only deadbolt on the FLOOR - the "jimmy-proof
deadbolt lock" as seen he
http://mh-hardware.en.alibaba.com/pr...bolt_Lock.html

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but not
what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside the stile.

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

Since you won't get a lot of security if the door is full of glass
anyway, perhaps a deadbolt simply isn't appropriate.

If you were handy, I expect you could modify a standard deadbolt for a
short backset since that part of the mechanism is pretty simple. For
that short a backset you might have to reduce the deadbolt throw as
well.

On Dec 20, 5:32*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 12/20/2010 5:20 PM aemeijers spake thus:











On Dec 20, 6:16 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

How tall is top rail? Add a bolt going straight up? Most people can
reach top of a 6'8" door with no problem, and most burglars will never
see it. (Double-key deadbolts being a fire hazard, and thumb-tab
deadbolts being pretty useless close to glass.) *If a double door,
does the seldom-used side have the slide bolts at top and bottom?

Interesting idea, but no; one of the residents is short, so she won't be
able to reach anything that high.

Just the single door. There are slide bolts, but the thing is that this
door is used as a passage, coming in from car parked in the garage in back.

I'm probably going to to with the "Ikon" lock I found at the local
locksmith. It's a small surface-mount deadbolt with a through-keyhole
that can be operated from either side. I'm not thrilled about that
aspect of it, as I really do not like doors that need a key to unlock
from the inside (not to mention that they're illegal), but it's the best
solution I've found so far. About $100 (it's NOS, and the locksmith says
a new one will run at least twice that).

As to the ridiculous suggestion that the door be replaced: it's a
beautiful "storybook" home in San Francisco built in the 1920s, and the
door is an integral part of the house, so thanks but no thanks. And
insulation and "energy efficiency" is not an issue; it's just one lousy
door.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

Two inch backset still too much?

http://www.harfordlocksmith.com/2inchbacksetlocks.htm

On Dec 20, 4:16*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but not
what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside the stile.

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

* *To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
* *who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
* *that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

Some additional options

Might take a while to get the first one but looks like it might fit
the bill.

https://www.stylefinishdesign.com.au...l?redirected=1

22mm or 37mm backsets & not expensive

here's some closer to home

31/32", 1-1/8", 1-1/2"

http://www.doorcloser.com/acatalog/MS_Deadbolts.html

David Nebenzahl wrote:
....

... it's a
beautiful "storybook" home in San Francisco built in the 1920s, and the
door is an integral part of the house, ...

OK, there's a clue not previously revealed -- go check out the salvage
places then--SF is both large enough and interested enough in vintage
stuff there have to be a multitude of places specializing in vintage
recycled stuff...

--

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:14:15 -0600, dpb wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
...

... it's a
beautiful "storybook" home in San Francisco built in the 1920s, and the
door is an integral part of the house, ...

OK, there's a clue not previously revealed -- go check out the salvage
places then--SF is both large enough and interested enough in vintage
stuff there have to be a multitude of places specializing in vintage
recycled stuff...

Not only that, but San Diego has a good market for architectural
relics. I spent some hours walking through shops there.

When I lived in Upsate New Yawk -- one old train station was
converted to an architectural recovery center.

On 12/20/2010 7:14 PM dpb spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
...

... it's a
beautiful "storybook" home in San Francisco built in the 1920s, and the
door is an integral part of the house, ...

OK, there's a clue not previously revealed -- go check out the salvage
places then--SF is both large enough and interested enough in vintage
stuff there have to be a multitude of places specializing in vintage
recycled stuff...

Thanks, but I already know about all those places in our area (I'm in
the East Bay):

o San Francisco: Building Resource, on Third St. near Hunter's Point
o Berkeley: Urban Ore & Ohmega Salvage
o Oakland: The Reuse People & Habitat for Humanity ReStore
o Richmond: This & That
o And last but not least, Whole House Building Supply in East Palo Alto

I'm pretty familiar with all these places.

Of these, the only one that is a reliable source of supply for anything
lock-oriented is Ohmega; I've bought lots of bits and pieces for old
mortise locks and stuff there. But they don't have a short-backset deadbolt.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

I really do not like doors that need a key to unlock
from the inside (not to mention that they're illegal),

Illegal? Really? Is that a local ordinance?

but it's the best
solution I've found so far. About $100 (it's NOS, and the locksmith says
a new one will run at least twice that).

As to the ridiculous suggestion that the door be replaced: it's a
beautiful "storybook" home in San Francisco built in the 1920s.

Then the homeowner can afford a $600 lockset. Tell him to stop sniveling
and ante up.

On 12/20/2010 6:19 PM DD_BobK spake thus:

On Dec 20, 6:16 pm, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock
they'd like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a
deadbolt to fit. Very difficult to find, since the lock stile
on the door is only 3" wide, so need a lock with a shallow
backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt,
standard thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on
inside), 1-1/2" backset, not too expen$ive.

Two inch backset still too much?

http://www.harfordlocksmith.com/2inchbacksetlocks.htm

Yep. Remember, the stile's only 3" wide. With a 2-1/8" bore required for
the lock, that'll put the hole past the edge of the stile.

But thanks for the link. Before thinking it through I thought it might
work. But I think one can get 1-1/2" backset locks *somewhere*. I've had
no luck yet wading through all the irrelevant results you get from a
Google search, but it's probably out there somewhere.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

On Dec 21, 12:09*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*David Nebenzahl wrote:

I really do not like doors that need a key to unlock
from the inside (not to mention that they're illegal),

Illegal? Really? Is that a local ordinance?

Fire code most places prohibits it, but it is routinely ignored. Idea
being, that unless you leave a key in the lock (which basically turns
it into a thumb latch), people could get trapped in a fire. Unlike us
tool-using barbarians on here, most people wouldn't think of smashing
the glass to get out. I might do it in a house I lived alone in, but
would never do it in a house with kids or older folks.

--
aem sends...

On 12/21/2010 6:06 PM aemeijers spake thus:

On Dec 21, 12:09 am, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

I really do not like doors that need a key to unlock from the
inside (not to mention that they're illegal),

Illegal? Really? Is that a local ordinance?

Fire code most places prohibits it, but it is routinely ignored. Idea
being, that unless you leave a key in the lock (which basically
turns it into a thumb latch), people could get trapped in a fire.
Unlike us tool-using barbarians on here, most people wouldn't think
of smashing the glass to get out. I might do it in a house I lived
alone in, but would never do it in a house with kids or older folks.

Well, I agree wholeheartedly with the fire codes here. I've had two
clients with entry doors with double-cylinder deadbolts that I had to
convince to replace the inside lock with a turnbolt. I was successful in
both cases, but it took a lot of wheedling. In both cases, I had to
replace windows in the doors with safety glass to allay the homeowners'
(justified) fears of being broken into.

I take the threat of fire, and the possibility of dying in it, very,
very seriously. I may not be the handiest handyman on the planet, but
I've resolved to not do anything that leads to serious injury or death.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 12/21/2010 6:06 PM aemeijers spake thus:

On Dec 21, 12:09 am, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

I really do not like doors that need a key to unlock from the
inside (not to mention that they're illegal),

Illegal? Really? Is that a local ordinance?

Fire code most places prohibits it, but it is routinely ignored. Idea
being, that unless you leave a key in the lock (which basically
turns it into a thumb latch), people could get trapped in a fire.
Unlike us tool-using barbarians on here, most people wouldn't think
of smashing the glass to get out. I might do it in a house I lived
alone in, but would never do it in a house with kids or older folks.

Well, I agree wholeheartedly with the fire codes here. I've had two
clients with entry doors with double-cylinder deadbolts that I had to
convince to replace the inside lock with a turnbolt. I was successful in
both cases, but it took a lot of wheedling. In both cases, I had to
replace windows in the doors with safety glass to allay the homeowners'
(justified) fears of being broken into.

I take the threat of fire, and the possibility of dying in it, very,
very seriously. I may not be the handiest handyman on the planet, but
I've resolved to not do anything that leads to serious injury or death.

For security reasons, I would *never* have an exterior door without
double cylinder deadbolts.

On 12/21/2010 7:07 PM Smitty Two spake thus:

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

I take the threat of fire, and the possibility of dying in it, very,
very seriously. I may not be the handiest handyman on the planet, but
I've resolved to not do anything that leads to serious injury or death.

For security reasons, I would *never* have an exterior door without
double cylinder deadbolts.

I sincerely hope that neither you nor anyone else in your house ever
gets caught in a fire and can't find the key to the door.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 12/21/2010 7:07 PM Smitty Two spake thus:

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

I take the threat of fire, and the possibility of dying in it, very,
very seriously. I may not be the handiest handyman on the planet,
but I've resolved to not do anything that leads to serious injury
or death.

For security reasons, I would *never* have an exterior door without
double cylinder deadbolts.

I sincerely hope that neither you nor anyone else in your house ever
gets caught in a fire and can't find the key to the door.

We have burglar bars on the doors and windows. The doors are equipped with
double-cylinder deadbolts. The bars on the windows are equipped with knob
deadbolts.

I tell all overnight visitors that, in case of fire, make for a window, not
a door.

You do NOT have to sacrifice security for a potential fire.

We have burglar bars on the doors and windows. The doors are equipped with
double-cylinder deadbolts. The bars on the windows are equipped with knob
deadbolts.

I tell all overnight visitors that, in case of fire, make for a window, not
a door.

You do NOT have to sacrifice security for a potential fire.-

so what keeps the burglar from using a window?

HeyBub wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 12/21/2010 7:07 PM Smitty Two spake thus:

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

I take the threat of fire, and the possibility of dying in it, very,
very seriously. I may not be the handiest handyman on the planet,
but I've resolved to not do anything that leads to serious injury
or death.
For security reasons, I would *never* have an exterior door without
double cylinder deadbolts.
I sincerely hope that neither you nor anyone else in your house ever
gets caught in a fire and can't find the key to the door.

We have burglar bars on the doors and windows. The doors are equipped with
double-cylinder deadbolts. The bars on the windows are equipped with knob
deadbolts.

I tell all overnight visitors that, in case of fire, make for a window, not
a door.

You do NOT have to sacrifice security for a potential fire.


In case of an emergency people always head the way they came.
In a Mall fire the staff went for their staff exit, even when
the customers entry was the safest way.
So I suggest you make the ordinary entry into a safe exit .

On 12/21/2010 9:07 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ers.com,
David wrote:

I take the threat of fire, and the possibility of dying in it, very,
very seriously. I may not be the handiest handyman on the planet, but
I've resolved to not do anything that leads to serious injury or death.

For security reasons, I would *never* have an exterior door without
double cylinder deadbolts.

I have double cylinder deadbolts on all of our exterior doors. However,
if we're at home, all of the locks are provided with a key on the
interior. When we go on a trip, all the keys are collected and stored
in an obscure place.

wrote:
We have burglar bars on the doors and windows. The doors are
equipped with double-cylinder deadbolts. The bars on the windows are
equipped with knob deadbolts.

I tell all overnight visitors that, in case of fire, make for a
window, not a door.

You do NOT have to sacrifice security for a potential fire.-

so what keeps the burglar from using a window?

The pane containing the lock is not barred, it is a sheet of diamond steel
gridwork. Plus the knob in encased in a 1/8" metal cylinder about 1.5" long.
You can get your fingers in it, but not a tool.

If the do-bad with the stink-eye manages to defeat all that, there's still
the shotgun to contend with...

On Dec 20, 7:16*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock they'd
like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a deadbolt to fit.
Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on the door is only 3"
wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset (ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but not
what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside the stile.

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.



David:

Since you have ruled surface mounted rim locks and want a deadbolt
lock for this door on a story book house where you are trying to
maintain a historical appearance, you clearly require some sort of
mortise auxiliary lock...

Adams Rite makes narrow style mortise locks that would work with
your given dimensions of a 3" wide style on a standard thickness
1 3/8" door... You have options of a standard bolt or a hook bolt
and would have to create a pocket in the second door to receive
the bolt rather than just drilling a hole for a standard deadbolt...

Sadly you will not be able to find a bored deadbolt lock with a
backset
of 1 1/2" because the "throw" of the bolt would be so short it would
not
be worth manufacturing as it would not provide much in the way of
security with a throw of less than an inch...

Adding a deadbolt to the door is one way to deal with the requested
security upgrade... The other way to accomplish said request is to
upgrade the "skeleton key" mortise or rim lockset which is currently
in use securing the door to one which has a higher level of
security...

The aforementioned architectural salvage type places can be a source
for older and very decorative yet still serviceable door hardware...

If the people who want this deadbolt are dead set against removing the
current lock to replace it with one which is more secure than a
skeleton key, then your only option at that point would be an Adams
Rite deadbolt for a wood door as your stile is too narrow for any
other
type of lock to be installed (even a 2" backset deadbolt still
requires
the standard 2 1/8" bore which would exceed your stile dimension)...

Now to address the specific suggestions that have been discussed
thus far:

The NOS Ikon lock -- garbage... Not only is it old which means you
might only be able to get what you see with no options or
substitutions
this lock will not be easy to repair or replace in the future if it
breaks...
This is not an ideal solution to this problem...

The rim mounted jimmy proof lock mounted near the floor... That is
a joke to mount a lock at either the extreme of near the top or bottom
of a door... This is not a good solution to the problem...

As to the issue of double cylinder locks used on residential doors
in homes without sprinkler protection:

It is against the national building code to have double cylinder locks
installed on any egress door in a residential building... So those
who
have such locks installed on EVERY door in their homes are clearly
in violation...

Since most burglars are not lock pickers and will use brute force to
open doors (even those with deadbolts installed on them) having
such double cylinder equipped locks provides no additional protection
since the opening that is breached will allow removal of items from
inside the home... Hinge pins can be removed from other doors to
provide exit if it is equipped with a double cylinder deadbolt if you
have some extraordinarily valuable item which is unable to be carried
off through the point of entry...

So since double cylinder locks do not provide any additional
protection
compared to a single cylinder lock, what do they actually provide:

-- entrapment in an emergency condition if you do not wear the key
around your neck (keys located on wall hooks within reach of the
door can and will remain invisible in a house filled with smoke)...

-- you can come home and walk in on a burglary and be trapped in
the house if you drop your keys somewhere even if you left the
deadbolt on the door you just entered through unlocked if the
burglars get between you and the door, you might have to fight
your way past them to exit through the only unlocked door or to
reach your keys to open another way out...

So the only thing you are doing is providing a barrier to egress
when you install double cylinder locks on your home... Same
with window bars... I would never install either on any property
I own even with a fire sprinkler system installed... If you are
that worried about security spend whatever money you would
waste on "security upgrades" that would otherwise turn your
home into a maximum security prison which could kill you on
a very sophisticated alarm system and windows with less
breakable glazing (either coated glass or lexan plastic panels)...

Building your home properly rather than adding bars on windows
and locks that are keyed on both sides of the door is what is
necessary...

~~ Evan

In article
,
Evan wrote:

It is against the national building code to have double cylinder locks
installed on any egress door in a residential building... So those
who
have such locks installed on EVERY door in their homes are clearly
in violation.

Cite, please.

In article
,
Evan wrote:

So since double cylinder locks do not provide any additional
protection
compared to a single cylinder lock

Sez you. The burglar who was forced to come in the window can damn well
climb out the same window. In fact, he did, and that alone prevented him
from absconding with more than he could carry in hands and pockets. Fer
instance, he actually took the scope off my rifle, and left the rifle.

On Dec 23, 9:17*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

*Evan wrote:
It is against the national building code to have double cylinder locks
installed on any egress door in a residential building... *So those
who
have such locks installed on EVERY door in their homes are clearly
in violation.

Cite, please.


You want to find it, you can look it up...

In the section on primary means of egress...

~~ Evan

On Dec 23, 9:20*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

*Evan wrote:
So since double cylinder locks do not provide any additional
protection
compared to a single cylinder lock

Sez you. The burglar who was forced to come in the window can damn well
climb out the same window. In fact, he did, and that alone prevented him
from absconding with more than he could carry in hands and pockets. Fer
instance, he actually took the scope off my rifle, and left the rifle.


Yup... Says me... It is the SAME size and durability bolt inside the
door...

Double cylinder locks provide no additional physical protection than a
single cylinder lock...

If the glass on or near your door is going to be broken to gain entry,
then
would it matter whether it is double cylinder or single -- everyone
who
advocates for the usage of double cylinder locks on residential doors
always touts how they leave a key in the inside of the lock to
facilitate
egress, only removing said key from the door and hiding them away when
they leave for a vacation... Are you seriously going to lie to me and
represent
that you go through that procedure twice daily before leaving for work
and as soon as you return home ?

LOL... Sounds like your experience with your burglar was a local drug
addict who had been in your home before and knew what to take that
could be quickly sold and didn't bother trying to mess with anything
else
or attempt to open any of your double cylinder equipped doors... Your
gun was not taken because it has a serial number on it which will be
scrutinized whenever it is sold or transferred and then re-registered
in
the new owners name so it is not worth anything (other than a mess
of state and federal firearms charges) to steal and wouldn't be stolen
unless the crook personally needed a gun they wanted to keep and
use for themselves... Also, that is how burglars get away clean from
a house they have just burglarized, taking only what they can carry
with them in a small backpack -- if they were carrying an arm load
of pillow cases full of loot away from your house someone would
notice that as being strange... Especially the police who would be
responding to the intrusion alarm call at your home if you have an
alarm system installed...

In and out in 3 minutes and gone... The only deterrent or useful home
protection technology in that sort of common burglary is a centrally
monitored alarm system which can alert the authorities within a minute
or so of being tripped depending on how precise your alarm company's
central station operators are when they are phoning your local
police...

Your insurance company is only going to want proof that you took
prudent security precautions in order to process any claim of loss
on items you report stolen during a burglary... This means that
you have locks installed on your doors and windows and your
signing an affidavit saying that you had left them locked when you
were away from your home... Signs of damage, no matter how
slight are proof enough... So that broken window that a burglar
used to enter your home is fine, your loss would be covered even
if your entire home was emptied out your front door because the
burglar unlocked it from the inside...

It is scary how many people there are out there like you who think
that over-protection is better and turn their homes into death traps
with double cylinder deadbolt locks which clearly neither prevent
burglary nor provide any additional physical protection than a
single cylinder lock... Do you really need to see the aftermath of
what happens with double cylinder door locks to someone you
know and love before you see how stupid a choice it is to install
them?

~~ Evan

In article
,
Evan wrote:

On Dec 23, 9:17*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

*Evan wrote:
It is against the national building code to have double cylinder locks
installed on any egress door in a residential building... *So those
who
have such locks installed on EVERY door in their homes are clearly
in violation.

Cite, please.


You want to find it, you can look it up...

In the section on primary means of egress...

~~ Evan

Nuts. You made the claim, which frankly I believe is utter nonsense, so
you provide the proof. Otherwise, I'll (safely) assume that you're full
of hot air.

In article
,
Evan wrote:

Yup... Says me... It is the SAME size and durability bolt inside the
door...

Double cylinder locks provide no additional physical protection than a
single cylinder lock...

If the glass on or near your door is going to be broken to gain entry,
then
would it matter whether it is double cylinder or single -- everyone
who
advocates for the usage of double cylinder locks on residential doors
always touts how they leave a key in the inside of the lock to
facilitate
egress, only removing said key from the door and hiding them away when
they leave for a vacation... Are you seriously going to lie to me and
represent
that you go through that procedure twice daily before leaving for work
and as soon as you return home ?

I never leave a key in the inside cylinder, to do so would obviously
defeat the purpose of the double cylinder.

In article
,
Evan wrote:

It is scary how many people there are out there like you who think
that over-protection is better and turn their homes into death traps
with double cylinder deadbolt locks which clearly neither prevent
burglary nor provide any additional physical protection than a
single cylinder lock... Do you really need to see the aftermath of
what happens with double cylinder door locks to someone you
know and love before you see how stupid a choice it is to install
them?

I guess if you have some irrational phobia about being burned alive, you
might not want the double cylinder. Personally, I'm not afraid of fire,
or electricity, or floods, or car accidents, or cancer, or even
burglars. Most nights I sleep with the door open, so I can get some
fresh air cross-ventilating with the open bedroom windows, so I guess
I'm not afraid of home invasion, either. I don't have bars on the
windows and doors like HeyBub does, but then, I don't live in his 'hood,
either.

I see a double cylinder deadbolt as an easy extra measure of security
for when I'm gone. Am I under some illusion that it makes my house
burglar proof? **** no. Do I think it's worthwhile? Obviously yes. Feel
free to do what you want in your own home.

On 12/23/2010 4:51 PM Evan spake thus:

On Dec 20, 7:16 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

Friends have an old exterior French door with a skeleton lock
they'd like upgraded for more security, so I'm looking for a
deadbolt to fit. Very difficult to find, since the lock stile on
the door is only 3" wide, so need a lock with a shallow backset
(ideally about 1-1/2").

A local search has turned up not much. One lock place can get a
fancy-schmancy solid brass lock, but it'll run--get this--about
$600-700! No effing way.

Other solution is a surface-mount deadbolt, easy to install, but
not what I really want, a regular old deadbolt that mounts inside
the stile.

So anyone know of any locks that'll work? Again, deadbolt, standard
thickness (1-3/8"), single cylinder (turnbolt on inside), 1-1/2"
backset, not too expen$ive.

Since you have ruled [out] surface mounted rim locks and want a
deadbolt lock for this door on a story book house where you are
trying to maintain a historical appearance, you clearly require some
sort of mortise auxiliary lock...

Well, ackshooly, I haven't ruled anything out. At this point the best
solution is looking to be the surface-mount Zeiss Ikon (Swiss-made)
deadbolt that my local locksmith can sell me for about $100.

Adams Rite makes narrow style mortise locks that would work with
your given dimensions of a 3" wide style on a standard thickness
1 3/8" door... You have options of a standard bolt or a hook bolt
and would have to create a pocket in the second door to receive
the bolt rather than just drilling a hole for a standard deadbolt...

Sadly you will not be able to find a bored deadbolt lock with a
backset of 1 1/2" because the "throw" of the bolt would be so short
it would not be worth manufacturing as it would not provide much in
the way of security with a throw of less than an inch...

That very thought occurred to me as I was searching for such locks
online. While you can get 2" backset locks, I guess there just isn't
enough room to make a 1-1/2" backset lock with a long enough bolt.

Adding a deadbolt to the door is one way to deal with the requested
security upgrade... The other way to accomplish said request is to
upgrade the "skeleton key" mortise or rim lockset which is currently
in use securing the door to one which has a higher level of
security...

It has a skeleton key lock. I did find a guy locally who rebuilds such
locks, and can do it for a reasonable fee, but the homeowners are mainly
concerned that the lock itself is fairly flimsy, so it would require
replacement, not repair. And I have no idea where I'd get a *new* (to
me) skeleton-key mortise lock; that'd be a huge can of worms.

The aforementioned architectural salvage type places can be a source
for older and very decorative yet still serviceable door hardware...

I've checked with the best local place for such stuff (Ohmega Salvage in
Berkeley), and they have nothing.

The NOS Ikon lock -- garbage... Not only is it old which means you
might only be able to get what you see with no options or
substitutions this lock will not be easy to repair or replace in the
future if it breaks... This is not an ideal solution to this
problem...

Hmm; first of all, I won't buy it unless the locksmith selling it can
make me an extra set of keys, so I don't think that'll be a problem. And
the lock itself is so simple, it's hard to imagine anything going wrong
with it, short of someone taking a prybar to it or something. I don't
see your objections above as problems.

The rim mounted jimmy proof lock mounted near the floor... That is
a joke to mount a lock at either the extreme of near the top or bottom
of a door... This is not a good solution to the problem...

Agreed.

As to the issue of double cylinder locks used on residential doors in
homes without sprinkler protection:

It is against the national building code to have double cylinder
locks installed on any egress door in a residential building... So
those who have such locks installed on EVERY door in their homes are
clearly in violation...

I agree, and as you have read in my other posts, I insist on removing
such locks for my clients.

Since most burglars are not lock pickers and will use brute force to
open doors (even those with deadbolts installed on them) having
such double cylinder equipped locks provides no additional protection
since the opening that is breached will allow removal of items from
inside the home... Hinge pins can be removed from other doors to
provide exit if it is equipped with a double cylinder deadbolt if you
have some extraordinarily valuable item which is unable to be carried
off through the point of entry...

Agreed; if a burglar is determined to get in, they'll just break the
damn French door muntins out. Wouldn't take more than one good kick to
do that.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

Evan wrote:

As to the issue of double cylinder locks used on residential doors
in homes without sprinkler protection:

It is against the national building code to have double cylinder locks
installed on any egress door in a residential building... So those
who
have such locks installed on EVERY door in their homes are clearly
in violation...

Last I heard there were several building codes.

I have the equivalent of a key-in-knob lock and a double cylinder
deadbolt on outside doors. The double cylinder locks on the main door
are only locked if everyone leaves the house.


Since most burglars are not lock pickers and will use brute force to
open doors (even those with deadbolts installed on them) having
such double cylinder equipped locks provides no additional protection
since the opening that is breached will allow removal of items from
inside the home...

Two locks create more areas that have to fail to get through the door.
The strikes are steel plate with long screws into the studs.

Burglars can remove what they take through the window they broke in through.

Hinge pins can be removed from other doors to
provide exit if it is equipped with a double cylinder deadbolt if you
have some extraordinarily valuable item which is unable to be carried
off through the point of entry...

The main door has pins between the hinge halves. There are several ways
to prevent defeat from hinge pin removal. I really doubt many burglars
are going to remove hinge pins to get out of a house.

The lock cylinders screw into the mortise lock, and can not be removed
without opening the door.


So since double cylinder locks do not provide any additional
protection
compared to a single cylinder lock,

They do on my house.

A lot of security is making your house a less attractive target than others.

what do they actually provide:

Both irrelevant.

--
bud--

Better to replace the lock of ur door may be it is in ur budjet, It will be replaced by Electromagnetic Rim lock, It will be a better choice....


http://www.kalanjiamhardwares.com