I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried about the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX where live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if I pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The weeds were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought a weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these: http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

On Sep 11, 5:20*pm, "JimT" wrote:
I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried about the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX where live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if I pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The weeds were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought a weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these:http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

Jim, post this on rec.gardens as well. They are very helpful.

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar?
If so, where get?

TIA

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...
On Sep 11, 5:20 pm, "JimT" wrote:
I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried about
the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX where
live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on
Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to
say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the
sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far
haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if I
pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The weeds
were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought a
weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these:http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

Jim, post this on rec.gardens as well. They are very helpful.

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar?
If so, where get?

TIA

===

This is what I used.:
http://www.garden-ville.com/sites/36...ages/20new.gif

http://buckmoorefeed.com/images/OrangeOil.jpg

I've read where people have used kitchen vinegar but I doubt it works as
well. As for buying, try any dedicated garden store.
I put about 2 tbls of oil to 1 pint of vinegar in a spray bottle. I soaked
them well but next time I'm going to use a lot less and see how it works.
Jim

On Sep 12, 12:05*am, "JimT" wrote:
"Higgs Boson" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 5:20 pm, "JimT" wrote:





I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried about
the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX where
live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on
Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to
say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the
sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far
haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if I
pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The weeds
were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought a
weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these:http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

Jim, post this on rec.gardens as well. *They are very helpful.

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? *Different from ordinary household
vinegar?
If so, where get?

TIA

===

This is what I used.:http://www.garden-ville.com/sites/36...ges/20new..gif

http://buckmoorefeed.com/images/OrangeOil.jpg

I've read where people have used kitchen vinegar but I doubt it works as
well. As for buying, try any dedicated garden store.
I put about 2 tbls of oil to 1 pint of vinegar in a spray bottle. I soaked
them well but next time I'm going to use a lot less and see how it works.
Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What makes you think spraying vinegar on weeds is any better for trees
than using Roundup? Roundup works by being absorbed and taken in
through leaves. I've never had any issues with it affecting any
trees. You just don't spray the trees with it.

In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried about the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX where live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if I pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The weeds were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought a weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these: http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

I bought one of those and took it back the next day. I decided it was
for shallow-rooted weeds in loose soil in a well-manicured lawn. Worked
great on about 1 weed out of 10 in my yard. Otherwise useless. I commend
your non-chemical approach, but a garden trowel is faster, easier, and
better than the weedhound IME.

On 9/12/2010 12:05 AM, JimT wrote:
"Higgs wrote in message
...
On Sep 11, 5:20 pm, wrote:
I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried about
the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX where
live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on
Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to
say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the
sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far
haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if I
pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The weeds
were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought a
weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these:http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

Jim, post this onrec.gardens as well. They are very helpful.

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar?
If so, where get?

TIA

===

This is what I used.:
http://www.garden-ville.com/sites/36...ages/20new.gif

http://buckmoorefeed.com/images/OrangeOil.jpg

I've read where people have used kitchen vinegar but I doubt it works as
well. As for buying, try any dedicated garden store.
I put about 2 tbls of oil to 1 pint of vinegar in a spray bottle. I soaked
them well but next time I'm going to use a lot less and see how it works.
Jim




The vinegar in your kitchen is about 5% acetic acid and this is 20% but
is misnamed as 20% vinegar which would make it diluted to 1%.

http://www.gardenguides.com/102345-v...d-control.html

I'd be concerned about getting vinegar on cement as it may corrode it.

Frank wrote in news:i6ie5u$okp$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

The vinegar in your kitchen is about 5% acetic acid and this is 20% but
is misnamed as 20% vinegar which would make it diluted to 1%.

http://www.gardenguides.com/102345-v...d-control.html

I'd be concerned about getting vinegar on cement as it may corrode it.

Muriatic acid is generally used at 31 or so % for etching concrete prior to
other treatments. Therefore 20% acetic acid may not be too bad.
Saturating the soil with 20% HAc will of course just about destroy anything
close by. Note that acetic acid is one a relatively few chemicals that
will attack/discolor stainless steel.

In areas like sidewalks or driveways 20% HAc might be OK. After a few
hours, I would rinse it well, though, and perhaps add some lime to sort of
neutralize the acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where in fact, they
can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be food grade so they
charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a garden store though as
it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be sold in quantity. I
just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

On 9/11/2010 11:05 PM, JimT wrote:
"Higgs wrote in message
...
On Sep 11, 5:20 pm, wrote:
I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried about
the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX where
live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on
Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to
say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the
sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far
haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if I
pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The weeds
were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought a
weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these:http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

Jim, post this onrec.gardens as well. They are very helpful.

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar?
If so, where get?

TIA

===

This is what I used.:
http://www.garden-ville.com/sites/36...ages/20new.gif

http://buckmoorefeed.com/images/OrangeOil.jpg

I've read where people have used kitchen vinegar but I doubt it works as
well. As for buying, try any dedicated garden store.
I put about 2 tbls of oil to 1 pint of vinegar in a spray bottle. I soaked
them well but next time I'm going to use a lot less and see how it works.
Jim





Thanks Jim

I've always suspected Roundup wasn't as environmentally friendly as
Monsanto would have us believe. I have a neighbor that sprays that stuff
as though it were water. He actually believes it's safe to drink.


Just something to think about

Roundup: Label - Keep out of reach of children, harmful if swallowed,
avoid contact with eyes or prolonged contact with skin. Remove clothing
if contaminated. Spray solutions of this product should be mixed, stored
and applied only in stainless steel, aluminum, fiberglass, plastic and
plastic-lined steel containers. This product or spray solutions of this
product react with such containers and tanks to produce hydrogen gas
that may form a highly combustible gas mixture. This gas mixture could
flash or explode, causing serious personal injury, if ignited by open
flame, spark, welder’s torch, lighted cigarette or other ignition
source. Avoid direct applications to any body of water. Do not
contaminate water by disposal of waste or cleaning of equipment. Avoid
contamination of seed, feed, and foodstuffs. Soak up a small amounts of
spill with absorbent clay. Do not reuse container for any other purpose.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/monsanto/roundup.cfm


LdB

wrote in message
...
On Sep 12, 12:05 am, "JimT" wrote:
"Higgs Boson" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 5:20 pm, "JimT" wrote:





I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried about
the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX where
live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on
Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some
last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to
say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the
sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far
haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if I
pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the
trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very
good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The weeds
were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought a
weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these:http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

Jim, post this on rec.gardens as well. They are very helpful.

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar?
If so, where get?

TIA

===

This is what I
used.:http://www.garden-ville.com/sites/36...ages/20new.gif

http://buckmoorefeed.com/images/OrangeOil.jpg

I've read where people have used kitchen vinegar but I doubt it works as
well. As for buying, try any dedicated garden store.
I put about 2 tbls of oil to 1 pint of vinegar in a spray bottle. I soaked
them well but next time I'm going to use a lot less and see how it works.
Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What makes you think spraying vinegar on weeds is any better for trees
than using Roundup? Roundup works by being absorbed and taken in
through leaves. I've never had any issues with it affecting any
trees. You just don't spray the trees with it.

====

Personally, I keep both away from the trees.
I wasn't aware of the problems with RU until I started listening to KBLJ (A
very conservative AM station). There is quite a bit of debate regarding RUs
use and other foliage isn't the only concern. So yes, I'm relying on the
advice of others as I'm not a chemist.

Jim

"Han" wrote in message
...
Frank wrote in news:i6ie5u$okp$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

The vinegar in your kitchen is about 5% acetic acid and this is 20% but
is misnamed as 20% vinegar which would make it diluted to 1%.

http://www.gardenguides.com/102345-v...d-control.html

I'd be concerned about getting vinegar on cement as it may corrode it.

Muriatic acid is generally used at 31 or so % for etching concrete prior
to
other treatments. Therefore 20% acetic acid may not be too bad.
Saturating the soil with 20% HAc will of course just about destroy
anything
close by. Note that acetic acid is one a relatively few chemicals that
will attack/discolor stainless steel.

In areas like sidewalks or driveways 20% HAc might be OK. After a few
hours, I would rinse it well, though, and perhaps add some lime to sort of
neutralize the acid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I think that's prudent advice. I did notice a bit of discolrazation. Trying
to keep the solution on the weeds seems to be the best advice. I also think
I used more than necessary as I wasn't aware of it's effectiveness.
Jim

On 9/12/2010 12:40 PM JimT spake thus:

wrote in message
...

[remaining attribution totally ****ed up by the totally BRAIN DAMAGED
Google Groups]

I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried
about the trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved
Central TX where live oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen
to KBLJ AM talk radio on Saturday mornings and would often hear
to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of orange citrus oil
mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some last year but
I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to
say, vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than
Roundup, for clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in
the cracks in the sidewalk and driveway. The grass and weeds died
almost immediately and so far haven't come back. I prefer to use
a defoliant there because pulling those particular weeds can be
difficult and tend to grow back right away if I pull them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of
the trees on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion
way with very good results. The grass usually just takes the
place of the weeds. The weeds were pretty bad when I moved into
my new property 5 years ago but I bought a weed puller that did
the job.

FWIW, It's one of these:http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim, post this on rec.gardens as well. They are very helpful.

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar? If so, where get?

This is what I
used.:http://www.garden-ville.com/sites/36...ages/20new.gif

http://buckmoorefeed.com/images/OrangeOil.jpg

I've read where people have used kitchen vinegar but I doubt it
works as well. As for buying, try any dedicated garden store. I put
about 2 tbls of oil to 1 pint of vinegar in a spray bottle. I
soaked them well but next time I'm going to use a lot less and see
how it works. Jim

What makes you think spraying vinegar on weeds is any better for
trees than using Roundup? Roundup works by being absorbed and
taken in through leaves. I've never had any issues with it
affecting any trees. You just don't spray the trees with it.

====

Personally, I keep both away from the trees. I wasn't aware of the
problems with RU until I started listening to KBLJ (A very
conservative AM station). There is quite a bit of debate regarding
RUs use and other foliage isn't the only concern. So yes, I'm relying
on the advice of others as I'm not a chemist.

I wonder if the acidity of vinegar could be a problem. Seems like it's
going to change the pH of the soil; what effects could that have?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On Sep 12, 3:40*pm, "JimT" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 12, 12:05 am, "JimT" wrote:





"Higgs Boson" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 5:20 pm, "JimT" wrote:

I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried about
the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX where
live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on
Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some
last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to
say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the
sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far
haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if I
pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the
trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very
good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The weeds
were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought a
weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these:http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

Jim, post this on rec.gardens as well. They are very helpful.

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar?
If so, where get?

TIA

===

This is what I
used.:http://www.garden-ville.com/sites/36...ages/20new.gif

http://buckmoorefeed.com/images/OrangeOil.jpg

I've read where people have used kitchen vinegar but I doubt it works as
well. As for buying, try any dedicated garden store.
I put about 2 tbls of oil to 1 pint of vinegar in a spray bottle. I soaked
them well but next time I'm going to use a lot less and see how it works.
Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What makes you think spraying vinegar on weeds is any better for trees
than using Roundup? * *Roundup works by being absorbed and taken in
through leaves. * I've never had any issues with it affecting any
trees. *You just don't spray the trees with it.

====

Personally, I keep both away from the trees.
I wasn't aware of the problems with RU until I started listening to KBLJ (A
very conservative AM station). There is quite a bit of debate regarding RUs
use and other foliage isn't the only concern. So yes, I'm relying on the
advice of others as I'm not a chemist.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So, what exactly did they say about using Roundup around trees? To do
a lawn renovation, per the Roundup directions, you can spray the lawn
with Roundup and then re-seed a week later. If what's on the surface
after a week doesn't interfere with seed germination, I find it hard
to believe it's going to harm a tree from the roots.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
On 9/12/2010 12:40 PM JimT spake thus:

wrote in message
...

[remaining attribution totally ****ed up by the totally BRAIN DAMAGED
Google Groups]

I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried
about the trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved
Central TX where live oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen
to KBLJ AM talk radio on Saturday mornings and would often hear
to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of orange citrus oil
mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some last year but
I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than
Roundup, for clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in
the cracks in the sidewalk and driveway. The grass and weeds died
almost immediately and so far haven't come back. I prefer to use
a defoliant there because pulling those particular weeds can be
difficult and tend to grow back right away if I pull them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of
the trees on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion
way with very good results. The grass usually just takes the
place of the weeds. The weeds were pretty bad when I moved into
my new property 5 years ago but I bought a weed puller that did
the job.

FWIW, It's one of these:http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim, post this on rec.gardens as well. They are very helpful.

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar? If so, where get?

This is what I
used.:http://www.garden-ville.com/sites/36...ages/20new.gif

http://buckmoorefeed.com/images/OrangeOil.jpg

I've read where people have used kitchen vinegar but I doubt it
works as well. As for buying, try any dedicated garden store. I put
about 2 tbls of oil to 1 pint of vinegar in a spray bottle. I
soaked them well but next time I'm going to use a lot less and see
how it works. Jim

What makes you think spraying vinegar on weeds is any better for
trees than using Roundup? Roundup works by being absorbed and
taken in through leaves. I've never had any issues with it
affecting any trees. You just don't spray the trees with it.

====

Personally, I keep both away from the trees. I wasn't aware of the
problems with RU until I started listening to KBLJ (A very
conservative AM station). There is quite a bit of debate regarding
RUs use and other foliage isn't the only concern. So yes, I'm relying
on the advice of others as I'm not a chemist.

I wonder if the acidity of vinegar could be a problem. Seems like it's
going to change the pH of the soil; what effects could that have?

snip

It does and one of the reasons I'll only use it on sidewalk cracks.

Another thing is it doesn't kill roots, so on some maturer plants it may
take more than one applications.
Jim

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where in fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be food grade so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a garden store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be sold in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden vinegar was about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5% vinegar. You can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to remember it's
concentrated too.
FWIW: I'm not one of those guys that hates paying retail at specialty
stores. If it's something that's at HD for half the price that's fine but
usually specialty stores charge more for convenience, and they have bills to
pay too.

People here really give pool supply stores crap for charging more for
chemicals. That's sort of a pet-peeve for me. Where else can you walk in,
get your water tested, get advice, get your Polaris worked on, get your pump
seal replaced, and get almost anything you need all in one place? I don't
mind paying a little more for the convenience. g

Funny, but I often get talked out of buying things at specialty stores.

Jim

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"JimT" wrote:

I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried about
the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX where
live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on
Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some
last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to
say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the
sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far
haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if I
pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the
trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The weeds
were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought a
weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these: http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

I bought one of those and took it back the next day. I decided it was
for shallow-rooted weeds in loose soil in a well-manicured lawn. Worked
great on about 1 weed out of 10 in my yard. Otherwise useless. I commend
your non-chemical approach, but a garden trowel is faster, easier, and
better than the weedhound IME.

It worked really well for one type of weed that really liked my yard.
Like this. http://www.rusticgirls.com/images/thistle_weed.jpg

Also a few others. It works well for getting at weeds that just snapped off
when hand picking but left the root. You're right. It's sort of a one trick
pony, but if you need it for that trick it works well. It busts up hard dirt
for the grass to grow back too.

BTW: Vinegar is a chemical, but I know what you mean. g

Jim

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
m...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where in fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be food grade so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a garden store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be sold in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden vinegar was about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5% vinegar. You can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to remember it's
concentrated too.

....or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons of RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.

FWIW: I'm not one of those guys that hates paying retail at specialty
stores. If it's something that's at HD for half the price that's fine but
usually specialty stores charge more for convenience, and they have bills to
pay too.

People here really give pool supply stores crap for charging more for
chemicals. That's sort of a pet-peeve for me. Where else can you walk in,
get your water tested, get advice, get your Polaris worked on, get your pump
seal replaced, and get almost anything you need all in one place? I don't
mind paying a little more for the convenience. g

Funny, but I often get talked out of buying things at specialty stores.

Jim

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
om...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where in fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be food grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a garden store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be sold in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden vinegar was about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5% vinegar. You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to remember it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons of RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not the point. That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it sparingly. I had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in NM. I took me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and used it like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't looking too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side yard. g

Jim

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@giganews. com...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where in fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be food grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a garden store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be sold in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden vinegar was about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5% vinegar. You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to remember it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons of RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not the point. That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it sparingly. I had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in NM. I took me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and used it like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't looking too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side yard. g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a lifetime. Screw that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the weeded areas. Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@giganews .com...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a
bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought
some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where in fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be food grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a garden store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be sold in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden vinegar was
about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5% vinegar. You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to remember it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons of
RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not the point.
That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it sparingly. I had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in NM. I took me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and used it like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't looking too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side yard. g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a lifetime. Screw that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the weeded areas.
Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

May as well. The ag companies use that stuff like crazy. They grow
genetically engineered crops to withstand the effects of RU. Unfortunaly,
these oaks on my property are probably 100s of years old and I feel
responsible for them during my short time here. I'm not willing to chance
some chemical companies make-a-fast-buck product on something so essential
to our well being (not to mention my property value).

Jim

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:41:36 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@gigane ws.com...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a
bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought
some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where in
fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be food
grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a garden
store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be sold
in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden vinegar was
about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5% vinegar.
You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to remember it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons of
RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not the point.
That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it sparingly. I had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in NM. I took
me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and used it like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't looking too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side yard. g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a lifetime. Screw
that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the weeded areas.
Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

May as well. The ag companies use that stuff like crazy. They grow
genetically engineered crops to withstand the effects of RU. Unfortunaly,
these oaks on my property are probably 100s of years old and I feel
responsible for them during my short time here. I'm not willing to chance
some chemical companies make-a-fast-buck product on something so essential
to our well being (not to mention my property value).

Don't get any RU on their leaves and they'll be fine. It's a lot better
than
messing with the pH of the dirt they're in.

My guess, at this point, would be, you're missing the point. Google "roundup
toxicity" and do some reading and come to your own conclusions. I didn't
know that Monsanto was being sued for it's claims that RU is as safe a table
salt. I absolutely refuse to purchase any Scotts product due to their
irresponsible marketing. If you're the type that reads the marketing bs and
believes it, then I doubt we have much to talk about.
BTW: I'd never use vinegar or RU by trees but I think that's the 3rd time
I've said that in this thread. g

Jim

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:55:01 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:41:36 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
om...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@gigan ews.com...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a
bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought
some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where in
fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be food
grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a garden
store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be sold
in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden vinegar was
about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5% vinegar.
You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to remember it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons of
RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not the point.
That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it sparingly. I had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in NM. I took
me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and used it like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't looking too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side yard. g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a lifetime. Screw
that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the weeded areas.
Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

May as well. The ag companies use that stuff like crazy. They grow
genetically engineered crops to withstand the effects of RU. Unfortunaly,
these oaks on my property are probably 100s of years old and I feel
responsible for them during my short time here. I'm not willing to chance
some chemical companies make-a-fast-buck product on something so essential
to our well being (not to mention my property value).

Don't get any RU on their leaves and they'll be fine. It's a lot better
than
messing with the pH of the dirt they're in.

My guess, at this point, would be, you're missing the point. Google "roundup
toxicity" and do some reading and come to your own conclusions. I didn't
know that Monsanto was being sued for it's claims that RU is as safe a table
salt. I absolutely refuse to purchase any Scotts product due to their
irresponsible marketing. If you're the type that reads the marketing bs and
believes it, then I doubt we have much to talk about.

It *is* safe, very shortly after it's applied. Drink it, no, but I wouldn't
hesitate to eat vegetables that were grown in soil that had weeds previously
treated (according to directions) with it.

BTW: I'd never use vinegar or RU by trees but I think that's the 3rd time
I've said that in this thread. g

Then why would you propose it as an alternative to RU? I assume you wouldn't
use RU there either.

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:27:29 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:55:01 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:41:36 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
om...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
news:6pfq86hv0l1kr6ujf4bcekcr5nhkn1h0m2@4ax .com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@gig anews.com...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with
a
bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought
some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary
household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where in
fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be food
grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a garden
store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be sold
in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden vinegar was
about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5% vinegar.
You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to remember
it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons of
RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not the
point.
That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it sparingly. I
had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in NM. I took
me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and used it
like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't looking too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side yard. g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a lifetime. Screw
that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the weeded areas.
Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

May as well. The ag companies use that stuff like crazy. They grow
genetically engineered crops to withstand the effects of RU.
Unfortunaly,
these oaks on my property are probably 100s of years old and I feel
responsible for them during my short time here. I'm not willing to
chance
some chemical companies make-a-fast-buck product on something so
essential
to our well being (not to mention my property value).

Don't get any RU on their leaves and they'll be fine. It's a lot better
than
messing with the pH of the dirt they're in.

My guess, at this point, would be, you're missing the point. Google
"roundup
toxicity" and do some reading and come to your own conclusions. I didn't
know that Monsanto was being sued for it's claims that RU is as safe a
table
salt. I absolutely refuse to purchase any Scotts product due to their
irresponsible marketing. If you're the type that reads the marketing bs
and
believes it, then I doubt we have much to talk about.

It *is* safe, very shortly after it's applied. Drink it, no, but I
wouldn't
hesitate to eat vegetables that were grown in soil that had weeds
previously
treated (according to directions) with it.

BTW: I'd never use vinegar or RU by trees but I think that's the 3rd time
I've said that in this thread. g

Then why would you propose it as an alternative to RU? I assume you
wouldn't
use RU there either.

I don't use any "weed control" product other than the following:

Of course the point missed you my thirty miles.

Vinegar and citrus oil in sidewalk cracks. (trial run. So far so good), and

Pulling.

In response to your "eating" comment. I eat vinegar a lot. So far no
problem.

http://www.panna.org/files/monsanto.pdf

Anything that starts out with "Monsanto is known for producing the
dioxin-containing defoliant Agent Orange" isn't worth reading further.

wrote in message
...
On Sep 12, 3:40 pm, "JimT" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 12, 12:05 am, "JimT" wrote:





"Higgs Boson" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 5:20 pm, "JimT" wrote:

I used to use Roundup when I lived in NM and never really worried
about
the
trees because there are so few out there. Then I moved Central TX
where
live
oaks are pretty much everywhere. I listen to KBLJ AM talk radio on
Saturday
mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar with a bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I bought some
last
year but I didn't get the chance to use any until this year. I have to
say,
vinegar and citrus oil works as well, if not better, than Roundup, for
clearing up that grass and the weeds that grow in the cracks in the
sidewalk
and driveway. The grass and weeds died almost immediately and so far
haven't
come back. I prefer to use a defoliant there because pulling those
particular weeds can be difficult and tend to grow back right away if
I
pull
them.

BTW, I never use any weed control products on my yard because of the
trees
on my property. I've been pulling them the old fashion way with very
good
results. The grass usually just takes the place of the weeds. The
weeds
were
pretty bad when I moved into my new property 5 years ago but I bought
a
weed
puller that did the job.

FWIW, It's one of these:http://www.kk.org/cooltools/weedhound.jpg

Jim

Jim, post this on rec.gardens as well. They are very helpful.

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary household
vinegar?
If so, where get?

TIA

===

This is what I
used.:http://www.garden-ville.com/sites/36...ages/20new.gif

http://buckmoorefeed.com/images/OrangeOil.jpg

I've read where people have used kitchen vinegar but I doubt it works as
well. As for buying, try any dedicated garden store.
I put about 2 tbls of oil to 1 pint of vinegar in a spray bottle. I
soaked
them well but next time I'm going to use a lot less and see how it
works.
Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What makes you think spraying vinegar on weeds is any better for trees
than using Roundup? Roundup works by being absorbed and taken in
through leaves. I've never had any issues with it affecting any
trees. You just don't spray the trees with it.

====

Personally, I keep both away from the trees.
I wasn't aware of the problems with RU until I started listening to KBLJ
(A
very conservative AM station). There is quite a bit of debate regarding
RUs
use and other foliage isn't the only concern. So yes, I'm relying on the
advice of others as I'm not a chemist.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So, what exactly did they say about using Roundup around trees? To do
a lawn renovation, per the Roundup directions, you can spray the lawn
with Roundup and then re-seed a week later. If what's on the surface
after a week doesn't interfere with seed germination, I find it hard
to believe it's going to harm a tree from the roots.

====

You may very well be correct. I should have stated my other
RU/Scotts/Monsanto concerns. With their record I'm not taking any chances.

http://www.panna.org/files/monsanto.pdf

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...mer&id=6736532

Why in the worlds Scotts would sell these products is beyond me? In Austin
we have trees dying by the thousands. Is it a coincidence that every year
Homedepot has stacks of "weed control" ready to sell? BTW: Have you noticed
the instructions are in English only?

IMHO, there has got to be a better way.

Jim

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:27:29 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:55:01 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:41:36 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
news:udhq865ri38c0e0fer8qu5d7324attfbn5@4ax. com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:6pfq86hv0l1kr6ujf4bcekcr5nhkn1h0m2@4a x.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@gi ganews.com...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar
with
a
bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I
bought
some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary
household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where in
fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be food
grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a garden
store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be
sold
in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden vinegar
was
about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5%
vinegar.
You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to remember
it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons of
RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not the
point.
That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it sparingly. I
had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in NM. I
took
me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and used it
like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't looking
too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side yard.
g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a lifetime. Screw
that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the weeded areas.
Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

May as well. The ag companies use that stuff like crazy. They grow
genetically engineered crops to withstand the effects of RU.
Unfortunaly,
these oaks on my property are probably 100s of years old and I feel
responsible for them during my short time here. I'm not willing to
chance
some chemical companies make-a-fast-buck product on something so
essential
to our well being (not to mention my property value).

Don't get any RU on their leaves and they'll be fine. It's a lot
better
than
messing with the pH of the dirt they're in.

My guess, at this point, would be, you're missing the point. Google
"roundup
toxicity" and do some reading and come to your own conclusions. I didn't
know that Monsanto was being sued for it's claims that RU is as safe a
table
salt. I absolutely refuse to purchase any Scotts product due to their
irresponsible marketing. If you're the type that reads the marketing bs
and
believes it, then I doubt we have much to talk about.

It *is* safe, very shortly after it's applied. Drink it, no, but I
wouldn't
hesitate to eat vegetables that were grown in soil that had weeds
previously
treated (according to directions) with it.

BTW: I'd never use vinegar or RU by trees but I think that's the 3rd
time
I've said that in this thread. g

Then why would you propose it as an alternative to RU? I assume you
wouldn't
use RU there either.

I don't use any "weed control" product other than the following:

Of course the point missed you my thirty miles.

Vinegar and citrus oil in sidewalk cracks. (trial run. So far so good),
and

Pulling.

In response to your "eating" comment. I eat vinegar a lot. So far no
problem.

http://www.panna.org/files/monsanto.pdf

Anything that starts out with "Monsanto is known for producing the
dioxin-containing defoliant Agent Orange" isn't worth reading further.

Yeah...not reading is a good way to go through life. ;-)

Go back to watching Scotts TV commercials. Yeah, that's better!

Jim

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:09:55 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:48:30 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:27:29 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
om...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:55:01 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
news:junq86lj5l1atm992hah5buipc949pq5ad@4ax .com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:41:36 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:udhq865ri38c0e0fer8qu5d7324attfbn5@4 ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:6pfq86hv0l1kr6ujf4bcekcr5nhkn1h0m2 @4ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d @giganews.com...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar
with
a
bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I
bought
some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary
household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more where
in
fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be
food
grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a
garden
store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will be
sold
in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden vinegar
was
about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5%
vinegar.
You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to remember
it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons
of
RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not the
point.
That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it sparingly.
I
had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in NM. I
took
me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and used
it
like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't looking
too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side yard.
g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a lifetime.
Screw
that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the weeded
areas.
Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

May as well. The ag companies use that stuff like crazy. They grow
genetically engineered crops to withstand the effects of RU.
Unfortunaly,
these oaks on my property are probably 100s of years old and I feel
responsible for them during my short time here. I'm not willing to
chance
some chemical companies make-a-fast-buck product on something so
essential
to our well being (not to mention my property value).

Don't get any RU on their leaves and they'll be fine. It's a lot
better
than
messing with the pH of the dirt they're in.

My guess, at this point, would be, you're missing the point. Google
"roundup
toxicity" and do some reading and come to your own conclusions. I
didn't
know that Monsanto was being sued for it's claims that RU is as safe a
table
salt. I absolutely refuse to purchase any Scotts product due to their
irresponsible marketing. If you're the type that reads the marketing
bs
and
believes it, then I doubt we have much to talk about.

It *is* safe, very shortly after it's applied. Drink it, no, but I
wouldn't
hesitate to eat vegetables that were grown in soil that had weeds
previously
treated (according to directions) with it.

BTW: I'd never use vinegar or RU by trees but I think that's the 3rd
time
I've said that in this thread. g

Then why would you propose it as an alternative to RU? I assume you
wouldn't
use RU there either.

I don't use any "weed control" product other than the following:

Of course the point missed you my thirty miles.

Vinegar and citrus oil in sidewalk cracks. (trial run. So far so good),
and

Pulling.

In response to your "eating" comment. I eat vinegar a lot. So far no
problem.

http://www.panna.org/files/monsanto.pdf

Anything that starts out with "Monsanto is known for producing the
dioxin-containing defoliant Agent Orange" isn't worth reading further.

Yeah...not reading is a good way to go through life. ;-)

Anthing that starts out a rant with such vitriol is hardly an unbiased
source
of information. *Obviously* slanted crap isn't worth my time, no. I can
see
where you would use it as "information", though.

Go back to watching Scotts TV commercials. Yeah, that's better!

Another idiot.

That's too bad. You actually were making some good points but your ability
to deal with contrasting views needs work.

That was *not* a contrasting view. It was *obviously* crap, written by some
nutcase.

You didn't read it so you can't tell me one thing in that article that is
false, can you? If you were self assured in your stance you would defend it,
and counter the article with your knowledge. Right?

Nope. When an article starts off with a daft conclusion, there is no reason
to read further.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:09:55 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:48:30 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:27:29 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
news:3qqq86p6d0qirg6mpp5ktt8i7pt20hua32@4ax. com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:55:01 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:junq86lj5l1atm992hah5buipc949pq5ad@4a x.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:41:36 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:udhq865ri38c0e0fer8qu5d7324attfbn5@ 4ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:6pfq86hv0l1kr6ujf4bcekcr5nhkn1h0m ...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2 ...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar
with
a
bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I
bought
some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary
household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more
where
in
fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be
food
grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a
garden
store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will
be
sold
in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden
vinegar
was
about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5%
vinegar.
You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to
remember
it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons
of
RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not the
point.
That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it
sparingly.
I
had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in NM.
I
took
me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and used
it
like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't
looking
too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side
yard.
g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a lifetime.
Screw
that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the weeded
areas.
Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

May as well. The ag companies use that stuff like crazy. They grow
genetically engineered crops to withstand the effects of RU.
Unfortunaly,
these oaks on my property are probably 100s of years old and I
feel
responsible for them during my short time here. I'm not willing to
chance
some chemical companies make-a-fast-buck product on something so
essential
to our well being (not to mention my property value).

Don't get any RU on their leaves and they'll be fine. It's a lot
better
than
messing with the pH of the dirt they're in.

My guess, at this point, would be, you're missing the point. Google
"roundup
toxicity" and do some reading and come to your own conclusions. I
didn't
know that Monsanto was being sued for it's claims that RU is as safe
a
table
salt. I absolutely refuse to purchase any Scotts product due to
their
irresponsible marketing. If you're the type that reads the marketing
bs
and
believes it, then I doubt we have much to talk about.

It *is* safe, very shortly after it's applied. Drink it, no, but I
wouldn't
hesitate to eat vegetables that were grown in soil that had weeds
previously
treated (according to directions) with it.

BTW: I'd never use vinegar or RU by trees but I think that's the 3rd
time
I've said that in this thread. g

Then why would you propose it as an alternative to RU? I assume you
wouldn't
use RU there either.

I don't use any "weed control" product other than the following:

Of course the point missed you my thirty miles.

Vinegar and citrus oil in sidewalk cracks. (trial run. So far so
good),
and

Pulling.

In response to your "eating" comment. I eat vinegar a lot. So far no
problem.

http://www.panna.org/files/monsanto.pdf

Anything that starts out with "Monsanto is known for producing the
dioxin-containing defoliant Agent Orange" isn't worth reading further.

Yeah...not reading is a good way to go through life. ;-)

Anthing that starts out a rant with such vitriol is hardly an unbiased
source
of information. *Obviously* slanted crap isn't worth my time, no. I
can
see
where you would use it as "information", though.

Go back to watching Scotts TV commercials. Yeah, that's better!

Another idiot.

That's too bad. You actually were making some good points but your ability
to deal with contrasting views needs work.

That was *not* a contrasting view. It was *obviously* crap, written by
some
nutcase.

You didn't read it so you can't tell me one thing in that article that is
false, can you? If you were self assured in your stance you would defend
it,
and counter the article with your knowledge. Right?

Nope. When an article starts off with a daft conclusion, there is no
reason
to read further.

"Overview
Monsanto is known for producing the dioxin-containing defoliant
Agent Orange, which was used extensively in the Vietnam
War; for forcing the evacuation of the community of Times
Beach, Missouri, by contaminating it with dioxin; and for
refusing to accept full responsibility for the PCB contamination
of an Alabama town."

Which part is false?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri

http://www.commonweal.org/programs/b...ton_AL_PCB.pdf

I don't think you read past Agent Orange.

Jim

On 9/12/2010 6:14 PM zzzzzzzzzz spake thus:

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:09:55 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

You didn't read it so you can't tell me one thing in that article
that is false, can you? If you were self assured in your stance you
would defend it, and counter the article with your knowledge.
Right?

Nope. When an article starts off with a daft conclusion, there is no
reason to read further.

Got your mind made up just because that paper dares to state a
conclusion, eh?

Here's what it says about Roundup, ostensibly the subject of this
discussion:

Monsanto’s Notorious Pesticides

Roundup—Roundup (active ingredient glyphosate) is Monsanto’s flagship
weed killer (or herbicide), accounting for 67% of the company's
total sales or about $2.6 billion annually.1 The amount of Roundup
sold has grown by around 20% each year over the past five years.2
Monsanto has expanded its capacity to produce Roundup nearly
five-fold since 1992.3 While Monsanto maintains that Roundup is safe,
many others disagree, including the New York State Attorney General.
Based on its investigation, the Attorney General’s office filed a
lawsuit arguing that the company’s advertising inaccurately portrayed
Monsanto's glyphosate-containing products as safe and as not causing
any harmful effects to people or the environment. As part of an
out-of-court settlement, Monsanto agreed to discontinue use of terms
such as "biodegradable" and "environmentally friendly" in all
advertising of glyphosate-containing products in New York state and
paid US$50,000 toward the state's costs of pursuing the case.4 There
are a number of environmental and human health problems associated
with glyphosate. For example, in studies of people (mostly farmers)
exposed to glyphosate, exposure is associated with an increased risk
of miscarriages, premature birth and the cancer, non-Hodgkin’s
lymphoma.5 In one case, Monsanto paid a US$225,000 fine for having
mislabeled Roundup containers on 75 separate occasions. It was the
largest settlement ever paid for violation of U.S. Worker Protection
Standards. The labels had claimed that the restricted entry period
after application of Roundup was four, rather than the actual 12
hours.6

So just what exactly about this do you disagree with? Keep in mind that
all those numbers I've left in the text are footnote references you can
check if you refer to the PDF.

Or you can just choose to take the company at their word. I suppose you
actually believe that BP is doing all it can to mitigate the effects
from its exploded oil rig, for example.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 21:08:41 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:09:55 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:48:30 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
om...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:27:29 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
news:3qqq86p6d0qirg6mpp5ktt8i7pt20hua32@4ax .com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:55:01 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:junq86lj5l1atm992hah5buipc949pq5ad@4 ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:41:36 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:udhq865ri38c0e0fer8qu5d7324attfbn5 @4ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:6pfq86hv0l1kr6ujf4bcekcr5nhkn1h0 ...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ ...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden vinegar
with
a
bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup. I
bought
some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary
household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more
where
in
fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to be
food
grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a
garden
store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will
be
sold
in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden
vinegar
was
about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5%
vinegar.
You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to
remember
it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5 gallons
of
RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not the
point.
That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it
sparingly.
I
had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in NM.
I
took
me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and used
it
like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't
looking
too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side
yard.
g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a lifetime.
Screw
that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the weeded
areas.
Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

May as well. The ag companies use that stuff like crazy. They grow
genetically engineered crops to withstand the effects of RU.
Unfortunaly,
these oaks on my property are probably 100s of years old and I
feel
responsible for them during my short time here. I'm not willing to
chance
some chemical companies make-a-fast-buck product on something so
essential
to our well being (not to mention my property value).

Don't get any RU on their leaves and they'll be fine. It's a lot
better
than
messing with the pH of the dirt they're in.

My guess, at this point, would be, you're missing the point. Google
"roundup
toxicity" and do some reading and come to your own conclusions. I
didn't
know that Monsanto was being sued for it's claims that RU is as safe
a
table
salt. I absolutely refuse to purchase any Scotts product due to
their
irresponsible marketing. If you're the type that reads the marketing
bs
and
believes it, then I doubt we have much to talk about.

It *is* safe, very shortly after it's applied. Drink it, no, but I
wouldn't
hesitate to eat vegetables that were grown in soil that had weeds
previously
treated (according to directions) with it.

BTW: I'd never use vinegar or RU by trees but I think that's the 3rd
time
I've said that in this thread. g

Then why would you propose it as an alternative to RU? I assume you
wouldn't
use RU there either.

I don't use any "weed control" product other than the following:

Of course the point missed you my thirty miles.

Vinegar and citrus oil in sidewalk cracks. (trial run. So far so
good),
and

Pulling.

In response to your "eating" comment. I eat vinegar a lot. So far no
problem.

http://www.panna.org/files/monsanto.pdf

Anything that starts out with "Monsanto is known for producing the
dioxin-containing defoliant Agent Orange" isn't worth reading further.

Yeah...not reading is a good way to go through life. ;-)

Anthing that starts out a rant with such vitriol is hardly an unbiased
source
of information. *Obviously* slanted crap isn't worth my time, no. I
can
see
where you would use it as "information", though.

Go back to watching Scotts TV commercials. Yeah, that's better!

Another idiot.

That's too bad. You actually were making some good points but your ability
to deal with contrasting views needs work.

That was *not* a contrasting view. It was *obviously* crap, written by
some
nutcase.

You didn't read it so you can't tell me one thing in that article that is
false, can you? If you were self assured in your stance you would defend
it,
and counter the article with your knowledge. Right?

Nope. When an article starts off with a daft conclusion, there is no
reason
to read further.

"Overview
Monsanto is known for producing the dioxin-containing defoliant
Agent Orange, which was used extensively in the Vietnam
War; for forcing the evacuation of the community of Times
Beach, Missouri, by contaminating it with dioxin; and for
refusing to accept full responsibility for the PCB contamination
of an Alabama town."

Which part is false?

It doesn't matter if any is false, or not. It matters that it is charged
rhetoric intended to get across a point of view, nothing else. It is not a
piece designed to inform or persuade, rather a piece for knuckleheads who
already believe that everyone is out to get them. It's not surprising that
you would use it as "evidence" of your position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri

http://www.commonweal.org/programs/b...ton_AL_PCB.pdf

I don't think you read past Agent Orange.

I now know you don't think.

wrote in message
news
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 21:08:41 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:09:55 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:48:30 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
news:nfsq8619v5998lvrrhgvkha0ig0n9t72i6@4ax. com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:27:29 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:3qqq86p6d0qirg6mpp5ktt8i7pt20hua32@4a x.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:55:01 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:junq86lj5l1atm992hah5buipc949pq5ad@ 4ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:41:36 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:udhq865ri38c0e0fer8qu5d7324attfbn ...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:6pfq86hv0l1kr6ujf4bcekcr5nhkn1h ...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT"

wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6dn ...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden
vinegar
with
a
bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for Roundup.
I
bought
some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from ordinary
household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more
where
in
fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to
be
food
grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a
garden
store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and will
be
sold
in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden
vinegar
was
about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of 5%
vinegar.
You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to
remember
it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5
gallons
of
RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not
the
point.
That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it
sparingly.
I
had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in
NM.
I
took
me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and
used
it
like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't
looking
too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side
yard.
g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a lifetime.
Screw
that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the weeded
areas.
Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

May as well. The ag companies use that stuff like crazy. They
grow
genetically engineered crops to withstand the effects of RU.
Unfortunaly,
these oaks on my property are probably 100s of years old and I
feel
responsible for them during my short time here. I'm not willing
to
chance
some chemical companies make-a-fast-buck product on something so
essential
to our well being (not to mention my property value).

Don't get any RU on their leaves and they'll be fine. It's a
lot
better
than
messing with the pH of the dirt they're in.

My guess, at this point, would be, you're missing the point.
Google
"roundup
toxicity" and do some reading and come to your own conclusions. I
didn't
know that Monsanto was being sued for it's claims that RU is as
safe
a
table
salt. I absolutely refuse to purchase any Scotts product due to
their
irresponsible marketing. If you're the type that reads the
marketing
bs
and
believes it, then I doubt we have much to talk about.

It *is* safe, very shortly after it's applied. Drink it, no, but
I
wouldn't
hesitate to eat vegetables that were grown in soil that had weeds
previously
treated (according to directions) with it.

BTW: I'd never use vinegar or RU by trees but I think that's the
3rd
time
I've said that in this thread. g

Then why would you propose it as an alternative to RU? I assume
you
wouldn't
use RU there either.

I don't use any "weed control" product other than the following:

Of course the point missed you my thirty miles.

Vinegar and citrus oil in sidewalk cracks. (trial run. So far so
good),
and

Pulling.

In response to your "eating" comment. I eat vinegar a lot. So far no
problem.

http://www.panna.org/files/monsanto.pdf

Anything that starts out with "Monsanto is known for producing the
dioxin-containing defoliant Agent Orange" isn't worth reading
further.

Yeah...not reading is a good way to go through life. ;-)

Anthing that starts out a rant with such vitriol is hardly an unbiased
source
of information. *Obviously* slanted crap isn't worth my time, no. I
can
see
where you would use it as "information", though.

Go back to watching Scotts TV commercials. Yeah, that's better!

Another idiot.

That's too bad. You actually were making some good points but your
ability
to deal with contrasting views needs work.

That was *not* a contrasting view. It was *obviously* crap, written by
some
nutcase.

You didn't read it so you can't tell me one thing in that article that
is
false, can you? If you were self assured in your stance you would defend
it,
and counter the article with your knowledge. Right?

Nope. When an article starts off with a daft conclusion, there is no
reason
to read further.

"Overview
Monsanto is known for producing the dioxin-containing defoliant
Agent Orange, which was used extensively in the Vietnam
War; for forcing the evacuation of the community of Times
Beach, Missouri, by contaminating it with dioxin; and for
refusing to accept full responsibility for the PCB contamination
of an Alabama town."

Which part is false?

It doesn't matter if any is false, or not. It matters that it is charged
rhetoric intended to get across a point of view, nothing else. It is not
a
piece designed to inform or persuade, rather a piece for knuckleheads who
already believe that everyone is out to get them. It's not surprising
that
you would use it as "evidence" of your position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri

http://www.commonweal.org/programs/b...ton_AL_PCB.pdf

I don't think you read past Agent Orange.

I now know you don't think.

Which part is false?

Jim

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 23:23:49 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
news
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 21:08:41 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:09:55 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
news:d0uq865v6jn7gap2v67r8npgscr4pr548g@4ax. com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:48:30 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:nfsq8619v5998lvrrhgvkha0ig0n9t72i6@4a x.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:27:29 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:3qqq86p6d0qirg6mpp5ktt8i7pt20hua32@ 4ax.com...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:55:01 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:junq86lj5l1atm992hah5buipc949pq5a ...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:41:36 -0500, "JimT"
wrote:


wrote in message
news:udhq865ri38c0e0fer8qu5d7324attf ...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:16:07 -0500, "JimT"

wrote:


wrote in message
news:6pfq86hv0l1kr6ujf4bcekcr5nhkn ...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:38:14 -0500, "JimT"

wrote:


"cshenk" wrote in message
news:VOydnX5HpZAeVhHRnZ2dnUVZ_r6 ...
"Higgs Boson" wrote
"JimT" wrote:

mornings and would often hear to substitute garden
vinegar
with
a
bit
of
orange citrus oil mixed in as a substitute for
Roundup.
I
bought
some
last

Also, what is "garden vinegar"? Different from
ordinary
household
vinegar? If so, where get?

It's no different. It's a sales gimmick to charge more
where
in
fact,
they can get away with a cheaper process (doesnt have to
be
food
grade
so
they charge *more*). The citrus oil may be cheaper at a
garden
store
though as it also doesn't have to be edible grade and
will
be
sold
in
quantity. I just use straight vinegar.

Keep in mind it kills grass as well as weeds.

I'm not sure that is entirely true. A gal of 20% garden
vinegar
was
about
$13. In theory that should be the equivalent of 4 gal of
5%
vinegar.
You
can
buy a pint of Medina Orange Oil for $16 but you have to
remember
it's
concentrated too.

...or for $30 you can buy enough concentrate to make 5
gallons
of
RoundUp.
That's enough to last me all summer.


So far I haven't used much of vinegar or oil, but that's not
the
point.
That
amount will last at least 3 years for me. I only use it
sparingly.
I
had
some of that concentrate RU left over from when we lived in
NM.
I
took
me
years to use that too. I think my wife got a hold of it and
used
it
like
normal RU on my side yard. One of my neighbors trees isn't
looking
too
healthy. On the plus side, there are no weeds in my side
yard.
g

If I used it sparingly 5 gallons of RU would last a
lifetime.
Screw
that.
It'll take me a while to get ground cover done for the
weeded
areas.
Until
then I douse it every few weeks in RU.

May as well. The ag companies use that stuff like crazy. They
grow
genetically engineered crops to withstand the effects of RU.
Unfortunaly,
these oaks on my property are probably 100s of years old and I
feel
responsible for them during my short time here. I'm not
willing
to
chance
some chemical companies make-a-fast-buck product on something
so
essential
to our well being (not to mention my property value).

Don't get any RU on their leaves and they'll be fine. It's a
lot
better
than
messing with the pH of the dirt they're in.

My guess, at this point, would be, you're missing the point.
Google
"roundup
toxicity" and do some reading and come to your own conclusions.
I
didn't
know that Monsanto was being sued for it's claims that RU is as
safe
a
table
salt. I absolutely refuse to purchase any Scotts product due to
their
irresponsible marketing. If you're the type that reads the
marketing
bs
and
believes it, then I doubt we have much to talk about.

It *is* safe, very shortly after it's applied. Drink it, no,
but
I
wouldn't
hesitate to eat vegetables that were grown in soil that had
weeds
previously
treated (according to directions) with it.

BTW: I'd never use vinegar or RU by trees but I think that's the
3rd
time
I've said that in this thread. g

Then why would you propose it as an alternative to RU? I assume
you
wouldn't
use RU there either.

I don't use any "weed control" product other than the following:

Of course the point missed you my thirty miles.

Vinegar and citrus oil in sidewalk cracks. (trial run. So far so
good),
and

Pulling.

In response to your "eating" comment. I eat vinegar a lot. So far
no
problem.

http://www.panna.org/files/monsanto.pdf

Anything that starts out with "Monsanto is known for producing the
dioxin-containing defoliant Agent Orange" isn't worth reading
further.

Yeah...not reading is a good way to go through life. ;-)

Anthing that starts out a rant with such vitriol is hardly an
unbiased
source
of information. *Obviously* slanted crap isn't worth my time, no.
I
can
see
where you would use it as "information", though.

Go back to watching Scotts TV commercials. Yeah, that's better!

Another idiot.

That's too bad. You actually were making some good points but your
ability
to deal with contrasting views needs work.

That was *not* a contrasting view. It was *obviously* crap, written
by
some
nutcase.

You didn't read it so you can't tell me one thing in that article that
is
false, can you? If you were self assured in your stance you would
defend
it,
and counter the article with your knowledge. Right?

Nope. When an article starts off with a daft conclusion, there is no
reason
to read further.

"Overview
Monsanto is known for producing the dioxin-containing defoliant
Agent Orange, which was used extensively in the Vietnam
War; for forcing the evacuation of the community of Times
Beach, Missouri, by contaminating it with dioxin; and for
refusing to accept full responsibility for the PCB contamination
of an Alabama town."

Which part is false?

It doesn't matter if any is false, or not. It matters that it is
charged
rhetoric intended to get across a point of view, nothing else. It is
not
a
piece designed to inform or persuade, rather a piece for knuckleheads
who
already believe that everyone is out to get them. It's not surprising
that
you would use it as "evidence" of your position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Beach,_Missouri

http://www.commonweal.org/programs/b...ton_AL_PCB.pdf

I don't think you read past Agent Orange.

I now know you don't think.

Which part is false?

You really are illiterate, aren't you. Pity.

:-) You're the one who didn't read it.

Which part is false?

Jim

On Sep 13, 1:07*am, "JimT" wrote:
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message

.com...





On 9/12/2010 6:14 PM spake thus:

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:09:55 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

You didn't read it so you can't tell me one thing in that article that
is false, can you? If you were self assured in your stance you
would defend it, and counter the article with your knowledge. Right?

Nope. When an article starts off with a daft conclusion, there is no
reason to read further.

Got your mind made up just because that paper dares to state a conclusion,
eh?

Here's what it says about Roundup, ostensibly the subject of this
discussion:

* Monsanto’s Notorious Pesticides

* Roundup—Roundup (active ingredient glyphosate) is Monsanto’s flagship
* weed killer (or herbicide), accounting for 67% of the company's
* total sales or about $2.6 billion annually.1 The amount of Roundup
* sold has grown by around 20% each year over the past five years.2
* Monsanto has expanded its capacity to produce Roundup nearly
* five-fold since 1992.3 While Monsanto maintains that Roundup is safe,
* many others disagree, including the New York State Attorney General..
* Based on its investigation, the Attorney General’s office filed a
* lawsuit arguing that the company’s advertising inaccurately portrayed
* Monsanto's glyphosate-containing products as safe and as not causing
* any harmful effects to people or the environment. As part of an
* out-of-court settlement, Monsanto agreed to discontinue use of terms
* such as "biodegradable" and "environmentally friendly" in all
* advertising of glyphosate-containing products in New York state and
* paid US$50,000 toward the state's costs of pursuing the case.4 There
* are a number of environmental and human health problems associated
* with glyphosate. For example, in studies of people (mostly farmers)
* exposed to glyphosate, exposure is associated with an increased risk
* of miscarriages, premature birth and the cancer, non-Hodgkin’s
* lymphoma.5 In one case, Monsanto paid a US$225,000 fine for having
* mislabeled Roundup containers on 75 separate occasions. It was the
* largest settlement ever paid for violation of U.S. Worker Protection
* Standards. The labels had claimed that the restricted entry period
* after application of Roundup was four, rather than the actual 12
* hours.6

So just what exactly about this do you disagree with? Keep in mind that
all those numbers I've left in the text are footnote references you can
check if you refer to the PDF.

Or you can just choose to take the company at their word. I suppose you
actually believe that BP is doing all it can to mitigate the effects from
its exploded oil rig, for example.

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

Ehh...He's painted in a corner and he doesn't know how to get out.

Declare the dissenters are idiots and claim victory.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

KRW's point is that you can easily find very biased, distorted, one-
sided, piece of crap stories about virtually anything on the
internet. And I have to agree with his position that a source that
starts out with the obvious bias of the reference is usually not worth
reading.

I can find you the exact same kind of FUD about your precious chosen
alternative, vinegar:

http://www.dherbs.com/articles/vinegar-60.html


"Vinegar, in general, is an impure dilute solution of acetic acid
obtained by fermentation and used as a condiment and preservative.
Folks, beware of vinegar. It is not a food (condiment). It is a
solvent, but more importantly, it is a poison and toxin to the human
body."

So, now the vinegar on our salads is gonna kill us all.

You spreaded some FUD yourself here, first making a post that
indicated that your issue with Roundup was it's safety when used
around trees. Now, instead it turns out it's just Roundup itself that
you want to make the issue and I have yet to see anything that says
it's harmful to trees.

He corrected something else, and I made a wise acre reply, thus
correcting his correction. Which was mostly correct at that point
anyway. That is, if I remember correctly. If not, I'm sure I'll be
corrected.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
On 9/13/2010 5:55 AM Stormin Mormon spake thus:

Five levels of old message trimmed.

.... leaving nothing. So what was your point, O top-poster?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:14:49 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote:

Roundup breaks down rather quickly where it is in contact with soil.
It is absorbed through the foliage. Acetic acid, vinegar, does not.
The roundup will not affect the trees and the vinegar will. You
should not repeatedly use vinegar under the canopy of trees. Rule of
thumb on trees is that the roots usualy extend as far as the top does.


Another rule of thumb is that a tree has as much organic material below
ground as above...


I've poured all kinds of stuff in driveway cracks, including old
gasoline. Weeds always come back within a month or two.
Sometimes it's an entirely different weed, or maybe a mutation.
I'm going to try vinegar next. Never heard of that one.
No trees around any of the cracks.
But I really should clean out those cracks and fill them in with
something.
Same with the sidewalk seams I have to weed whack a couple times a
year.
Anybody recommend a concrete driveway/sidewalk crack sealer or caulk?
Anybody use the vinyl crack fillers?
I hesitate doing it because it's a lot of work and I think whatever I
use will crack up or pop out after a couple freeze/thaw cycles.
I've probably got 40-50' of various crack from 1/2" to 3" wide where
weeds want to grow.

--Vic

I'd use the mix vinegar/citrus oil. 1pint/2 tbls And don't use a lot and see
how it goes. Get it in on the weed and not on the concrete as much as you
can, and rinse after a few hours if you got a lot on the cement. It rained
after I used it but it does discolor cement. Not much.

You're probably right about the sealer. Might work for awhile.

The reason I like the defoliant, in cracks, is it leaves the root there, and
doesn't bust the soil up for another weed. Using a weed whacker will
probably eat a lot of line and not solve the problem for long.

FWIW: If I had a bunch of weeds in a empty lot, about the dumbest thing to
do is pull the weeds, but don't put something down to stop the next faster
growing weed. Better to just cut with a mower and leave the roots alone.

Jim

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 23:47:47 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 23:23:49 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

snip

You really are illiterate, aren't you. Pity.

:-) You're the one who didn't read it.

Which part is false?

Listen, you illiterate dumb ****, I didn't say any part was false, or true, so
your question is nonsensical. ...like everything else you've posted recently
(and likely forever).

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 00:07:36 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
On 9/12/2010 6:14 PM zzzzzzzzzz spake thus:

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:09:55 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

You didn't read it so you can't tell me one thing in that article that
is false, can you? If you were self assured in your stance you
would defend it, and counter the article with your knowledge. Right?

Nope. When an article starts off with a daft conclusion, there is no
reason to read further.

Got your mind made up just because that paper dares to state a conclusion,
eh?

Here's what it says about Roundup, ostensibly the subject of this
discussion:

Monsanto’s Notorious Pesticides

Roundup—Roundup (active ingredient glyphosate) is Monsanto’s flagship
weed killer (or herbicide), accounting for 67% of the company's
total sales or about $2.6 billion annually.1 The amount of Roundup
sold has grown by around 20% each year over the past five years.2
Monsanto has expanded its capacity to produce Roundup nearly
five-fold since 1992.3 While Monsanto maintains that Roundup is safe,
many others disagree, including the New York State Attorney General.
Based on its investigation, the Attorney General’s office filed a
lawsuit arguing that the company’s advertising inaccurately portrayed
Monsanto's glyphosate-containing products as safe and as not causing
any harmful effects to people or the environment. As part of an
out-of-court settlement, Monsanto agreed to discontinue use of terms
such as "biodegradable" and "environmentally friendly" in all
advertising of glyphosate-containing products in New York state and
paid US$50,000 toward the state's costs of pursuing the case.4 There
are a number of environmental and human health problems associated
with glyphosate. For example, in studies of people (mostly farmers)
exposed to glyphosate, exposure is associated with an increased risk
of miscarriages, premature birth and the cancer, non-Hodgkin’s
lymphoma.5 In one case, Monsanto paid a US$225,000 fine for having
mislabeled Roundup containers on 75 separate occasions. It was the
largest settlement ever paid for violation of U.S. Worker Protection
Standards. The labels had claimed that the restricted entry period
after application of Roundup was four, rather than the actual 12
hours.6

So just what exactly about this do you disagree with? Keep in mind that
all those numbers I've left in the text are footnote references you can
check if you refer to the PDF.

Or you can just choose to take the company at their word. I suppose you
actually believe that BP is doing all it can to mitigate the effects from
its exploded oil rig, for example.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

Ehh...He's painted in a corner and he doesn't know how to get out.

In your dreams, idiot.

Declare the dissenters are idiots and claim victory.

I call them as they are. You *are* an illiterate idiot.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 00:07:36 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
rs.com...
On 9/12/2010 6:14 PM zzzzzzzzzz spake thus:

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:09:55 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

You didn't read it so you can't tell me one thing in that article that
is false, can you? If you were self assured in your stance you
would defend it, and counter the article with your knowledge. Right?

Nope. When an article starts off with a daft conclusion, there is no
reason to read further.

Got your mind made up just because that paper dares to state a
conclusion,
eh?

Here's what it says about Roundup, ostensibly the subject of this
discussion:

Monsanto's Notorious Pesticides

Roundup-Roundup (active ingredient glyphosate) is Monsanto's flagship
weed killer (or herbicide), accounting for 67% of the company's
total sales or about $2.6 billion annually.1 The amount of Roundup
sold has grown by around 20% each year over the past five years.2
Monsanto has expanded its capacity to produce Roundup nearly
five-fold since 1992.3 While Monsanto maintains that Roundup is safe,
many others disagree, including the New York State Attorney General.
Based on its investigation, the Attorney General's office filed a
lawsuit arguing that the company's advertising inaccurately portrayed
Monsanto's glyphosate-containing products as safe and as not causing
any harmful effects to people or the environment. As part of an
out-of-court settlement, Monsanto agreed to discontinue use of terms
such as "biodegradable" and "environmentally friendly" in all
advertising of glyphosate-containing products in New York state and
paid US$50,000 toward the state's costs of pursuing the case.4 There
are a number of environmental and human health problems associated
with glyphosate. For example, in studies of people (mostly farmers)
exposed to glyphosate, exposure is associated with an increased risk
of miscarriages, premature birth and the cancer, non-Hodgkin's
lymphoma.5 In one case, Monsanto paid a US$225,000 fine for having
mislabeled Roundup containers on 75 separate occasions. It was the
largest settlement ever paid for violation of U.S. Worker Protection
Standards. The labels had claimed that the restricted entry period
after application of Roundup was four, rather than the actual 12
hours.6

So just what exactly about this do you disagree with? Keep in mind that
all those numbers I've left in the text are footnote references you can
check if you refer to the PDF.

Or you can just choose to take the company at their word. I suppose you
actually believe that BP is doing all it can to mitigate the effects
from
its exploded oil rig, for example.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

Ehh...He's painted in a corner and he doesn't know how to get out.

In your dreams, idiot.

Declare the dissenters are idiots and claim victory.

I call them as they are. You *are* an illiterate idiot.

heh Jesus you guys are predictable.

Jim

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 23:47:47 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 23:23:49 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

snip

You really are illiterate, aren't you. Pity.

:-) You're the one who didn't read it.

Which part is false?

Listen, you illiterate dumb ****, I didn't say any part was false, or
true, so
your question is nonsensical. ...like everything else you've posted
recently
(and likely forever).

"Anthing that starts out a rant with such vitriol is hardly an unbiased
source
of information. *Obviously* slanted crap isn't worth my time, no. I can
see
where you would use it as "information", though."

You're not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Which part is false?

Jim

On Sep 13, 10:10*pm, "JimT" wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message

...





On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:14:49 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote:

Roundup breaks down rather quickly where it is in contact with soil.
It is absorbed through the foliage. *Acetic acid, vinegar, does not..
The roundup will not affect the trees and the vinegar will. *You
should not repeatedly use vinegar under the canopy of trees. *Rule of
thumb on trees is that the roots usualy extend as far as the top does..

Another rule of thumb is that a tree has as much organic material below
ground as above...

I've poured all kinds of stuff in driveway cracks, including old
gasoline. *Weeds always come back within a month or two.
Sometimes it's an entirely different weed, or maybe a mutation.
I'm going to try vinegar next. *Never heard of that one.
No trees around any of the cracks.
But I really should clean out those cracks and fill them in with
something.
Same with the sidewalk seams I have to weed whack a couple times a
year.
Anybody recommend a concrete driveway/sidewalk crack sealer or caulk?
Anybody use the vinyl crack fillers?
I hesitate doing it because it's a lot of work and I think whatever I
use will crack up or pop out after a couple freeze/thaw cycles.
I've probably got 40-50' of various crack from 1/2" to 3" wide where
weeds want to grow.

--Vic

I'd use the mix vinegar/citrus oil. 1pint/2 tbls And don't use a lot and see
how it goes. Get it in on the weed and not on the concrete as much as you
can, and rinse after a few hours if you got a lot on the cement. It rained
after I used it but it does discolor cement. Not much.

You're probably right about the sealer. Might work for awhile.

The reason I like the defoliant, in cracks, is it leaves the root there, and
doesn't bust the soil up for another weed. Using a weed whacker will
probably eat a lot of line and not solve the problem for long.

FWIW: If I had a bunch of weeds in a empty lot, about the dumbest thing to
do is pull the weeds, but don't put something down to stop the next faster
growing weed. Better to just cut with a mower and leave the roots alone.

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


It gets better all the time. So now you're recommending vinegar as a
weed preventer that works longer than one or two months? The most
I've heard is that vinegar, like regular Roundup, will kill a weed
that is currently growing. But neither will PREVENT weeds from
growing back. If you want weed prevention in areas, there are
products made that will do that for 3 to 6 months, but I'm sure you
and the Pesticide Action Network won't like them either.

On Sep 14, 8:33*am, "JimT" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 13, 10:10 pm, "JimT" wrote:





"Vic Smith" wrote in message

.. .

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:14:49 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote:

Roundup breaks down rather quickly where it is in contact with soil..
It is absorbed through the foliage. Acetic acid, vinegar, does not.
The roundup will not affect the trees and the vinegar will. You
should not repeatedly use vinegar under the canopy of trees. Rule of
thumb on trees is that the roots usualy extend as far as the top does.

Another rule of thumb is that a tree has as much organic material below
ground as above...

I've poured all kinds of stuff in driveway cracks, including old
gasoline. Weeds always come back within a month or two.
Sometimes it's an entirely different weed, or maybe a mutation.
I'm going to try vinegar next. Never heard of that one.
No trees around any of the cracks.
But I really should clean out those cracks and fill them in with
something.
Same with the sidewalk seams I have to weed whack a couple times a
year.
Anybody recommend a concrete driveway/sidewalk crack sealer or caulk?
Anybody use the vinyl crack fillers?
I hesitate doing it because it's a lot of work and I think whatever I
use will crack up or pop out after a couple freeze/thaw cycles.
I've probably got 40-50' of various crack from 1/2" to 3" wide where
weeds want to grow.

--Vic

I'd use the mix vinegar/citrus oil. 1pint/2 tbls And don't use a lot and
see
how it goes. Get it in on the weed and not on the concrete as much as you
can, and rinse after a few hours if you got a lot on the cement. It rained
after I used it but it does discolor cement. Not much.

You're probably right about the sealer. Might work for awhile.

The reason I like the defoliant, in cracks, is it leaves the root there,
and
doesn't bust the soil up for another weed. Using a weed whacker will
probably eat a lot of line and not solve the problem for long.

FWIW: If I had a bunch of weeds in a empty lot, about the dumbest thing to
do is pull the weeds, but don't put something down to stop the next faster
growing weed. Better to just cut with a mower and leave the roots alone..

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It gets better all the time. *So now you're recommending vinegar as a
weed preventer that works longer than one or two months? * *The most
I've heard is that vinegar, like regular Roundup, will kill a weed
that is currently growing. * But neither will PREVENT weeds from
growing back. *If you want weed prevention in areas, there are
products made that will do that for 3 to 6 months, but I'm sure you
and the Pesticide Action Network won't like them either.

==

WTF:

Why don't you just find something else to do?

Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why? So you can spread FUD and misinformation without anyone else
commenting? Who appointed you moderator? You started this thread
telling people that there was an issue using Roundup near trees. Now
you admit that was incorrect and shifted to the safety of Roundup in
general.

Now you told a guy that vinegar is a good solution for keeping weeds
away after treatment for two to three months. I'd like to see a
reference that supports that.