[Existential Angst]

Awl --

Purpose? Applications?

The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on the
coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

fyi, there exists a 3/4" and 1 1/8 SR xcrew, very hard to find.
The 3/4 is VERY handy, when screwing from the back side of a good face, and
the 1 1/8 occasionally comes in handy.
A good hardware store, proly one that sells SR screws by the pound, can
order a 25# box. If he hesitates, tell him that the 3/4" will FLY out of
the store when people grok their utility.
--
EA

[Ed Huntress]

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

Purpose? Applications?

The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
screws.

--
Ed Huntress

[DerbyDad03]

On Apr 13, 4:46*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
Awl --

Purpose? *Applications?

The *minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on the
coarse. *Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
* *Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. * Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? *I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

fyi, there exists a 3/4" and *1 1/8 SR xcrew, very hard to find.
The 3/4 is VERY handy, when screwing from the back side of a good face, and
the 1 1/8 occasionally comes in handy.
A good hardware store, proly one that sells SR screws by the pound, can
order a 25# box. *If he hesitates, tell him that the 3/4" will FLY out of
the store when people grok their utility.
--
EA

Typically, it's coarse thread thread for wood studs, fine thread for
metal studs. The fine thread screws also have a sharper point so they
are easier to start, *especially* when trying to pierce metal studs.

While you might think that you want coarse threads for more "grab" in
the metal studs, in reality you want less space *between* the threads
so that the thin metal can't move.

Here are some thoughts on using drywall screws for woodworking...

http://www.woodbin.com/misc/drywall_screws.htm

And we haven't even addressed the different types of heads on drywall
screws, from "standard" to bugle to flat.

[Stuart Wheaton]

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

Purpose? Applications?

The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
screws.


www.mcFeelys.com

About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
far as I'm concerned!

Stuart

[DerbyDad03]

On Apr 13, 5:37*pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

Purpose? *Applications?

The *minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. *Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
* Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. * Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? *I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
screws.

www.mcFeelys.com

About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
far as I'm concerned!

Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"square drive is the ONLY option as far as I'm concerned!"

Unless you think you might find yourself with the need to disassemble
what you've put together and there's a danger of no (or not enough)
square drive bits being available.

I'm often involved in set-up and tear downs for events where lots of
dry wall screws are used. You can *always* find a screw gun, usually
with a # 2 phillips bit already installed, within arm's reach. Try
locating a square drive bit - and of the right size - when something
needs to fixed/adjusted with moment's notice.

When it comes to volunteer events like these, you want to go with the
most common fasteners so that anyone (and everyone) can pitch in. # 2
phillips screws are still the most common and I don't see that
changing any time soon - even if square drives are better.

[Dave__67]

On Apr 13, 5:23*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 4:46*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:



Awl --

Purpose? *Applications?

The *minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on the
coarse. *Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
* *Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. * Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? *I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

fyi, there exists a 3/4" and *1 1/8 SR xcrew, very hard to find.
The 3/4 is VERY handy, when screwing from the back side of a good face, and
the 1 1/8 occasionally comes in handy.
A good hardware store, proly one that sells SR screws by the pound, can
order a 25# box. *If he hesitates, tell him that the 3/4" will FLY out of
the store when people grok their utility.
--
EA

Typically, it's coarse thread thread for wood studs, fine thread for
metal studs. The fine thread screws also have a sharper point so they
are easier to start, *especially* when trying to pierce metal studs.

While you might think that you want coarse threads for more "grab" in
the metal studs, in reality you want less space *between* the threads
so that the thin metal can't move.

Here are some thoughts on using drywall screws for woodworking...

http://www.woodbin.com/misc/drywall_screws.htm

And we haven't even addressed the different types of heads on drywall
screws, from "standard" to bugle to flat.

And never use drywall screws for staging.


Dave

[David Nebenzahl]

On 4/13/2010 2:23 PM DerbyDad03 spake thus:

Typically, it's coarse thread thread for wood studs, fine thread for
metal studs. The fine thread screws also have a sharper point so they
are easier to start, *especially* when trying to pierce metal studs.

While you might think that you want coarse threads for more "grab" in
the metal studs, in reality you want less space *between* the threads
so that the thin metal can't move.

Here are some thoughts on using drywall screws for woodworking...

http://www.woodbin.com/misc/drywall_screws.htm

Thanks for that; excellent article. Pretty much jibes with my own
experience with drywall vs. wood screws. I much prefer coarse threads
for wood. (Never used fine-thread drywall screws for their original
intended purpose of securing to metal framing.)


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Oren[_2_]]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:04:10 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

That was before sheet rock
screws.

Yep, nails ("blue nails") and a lath hatchet. G

[[email protected]]

On Apr 13, 3:37*pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

Purpose? *Applications?

The *minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. *Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
* Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. * Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? *I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
screws.

www.mcFeelys.com

About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
far as I'm concerned!

Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I dunno, I used quite a few pounds of square-drives putting up a
shed. The drivers didn't wear like a cross-point/Phillips bit would,
but quite a few heads stripped out or screws snapped off without
driving home. This was with decking screws, U.S.-made at that. I've
used a whole lot of regular-type sheetrock screws and didn't have that
problem. Wore out a bunch of driver bits, but never had a head
strip. Haven't seen stainless drywall screws or I would have used
those.

Have a bunch of trim screws off of Fords I picked up in the scrap yard
that had interesting threads, went into plastic parts. Were multi-
start threads, one start was coarse and heavy, like a sheetrock screw,
the other was shallow and thin. Hadn't seen anything like that
before. Seem to be pretty resistant to vibration, have to tighten up
the other trim screws after awhile, not those.

Stan

[LSMFT]

Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --
Purpose? Applications?

The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about
.115 (mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and
.090 on the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal
stud, also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this
particular logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've
seen some much heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet
metal screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before
sheet rock screws.


www.mcFeelys.com

About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
far as I'm concerned!

Stuart

I agree. Less hassle getting enough torque. No phillips chatter.

--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

[JIMMIE]

On Apr 13, 7:08*pm, wrote:
On Apr 13, 3:37*pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:



Ed Huntress wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

Purpose? *Applications?

The *minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. *Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs..
* Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. * Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? *I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
screws.

www.mcFeelys.com

About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
far as I'm concerned!

Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I dunno, I used quite a few pounds of square-drives putting up a
shed. *The drivers didn't wear like a cross-point/Phillips bit would,
but quite a few heads stripped out or screws snapped off without
driving home. *This was with decking screws, U.S.-made at that. *I've
used a whole lot of regular-type sheetrock screws and didn't have that
problem. *Wore out a bunch of driver bits, but never had a head
strip. *Haven't seen stainless drywall screws or I would have used
those.

Have a bunch of trim screws off of Fords I picked up in the scrap yard
that had interesting threads, went into plastic parts. *Were multi-
start threads, one start was coarse and heavy, like a sheetrock screw,
the other was shallow and thin. *Hadn't seen anything like that
before. *Seem to be pretty resistant to vibration, have to tighten up
the other trim screws after awhile, not those.

Stan

Yeah they do kind of a controlled bind-up but they are bad to strip
out if you put them in and take them out more than a few times. May
work better in wood than they do plastic.

Jimmie

[DerbyDad03]

On Apr 13, 9:22*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:37:18 -0400, Stuart Wheaton

wrote:
About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
far as I'm concerned!

Stuart

I have never seen a square drive drywall screw. You actually want
drywall screws to cam out before they go in too deep.
That is also why a #2 drywall bit is a lot "pointier" that a regular
#2. It is a torque limiting design.

I do agree on just about any other type of screw. Phillips is not as
good as square for torque but torx is better than both of them,.

"I have never seen a square drive drywall screw."

After visiting here you will have:

http://www.fastenermegastore.com/fin...44.html?ref=23

These don't show the head, but are listed as Drywall Screws, Square
Drive Coarse

http://www.drillspot.com/hardware-an...-drive-coarse/

[Stuart Wheaton]

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 5:37 pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --
Purpose? Applications?
The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.
I'm guessing the following:
Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've seen some much
heavier than others.
Coarse thread for particle board et al.
Fine thread for hardwood.
Opinions?
The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
screws.
www.mcFeelys.com

About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
far as I'm concerned!

Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"square drive is the ONLY option as far as I'm concerned!"

Unless you think you might find yourself with the need to disassemble
what you've put together and there's a danger of no (or not enough)
square drive bits being available.

I'm often involved in set-up and tear downs for events where lots of
dry wall screws are used. You can *always* find a screw gun, usually
with a # 2 phillips bit already installed, within arm's reach. Try
locating a square drive bit - and of the right size - when something
needs to fixed/adjusted with moment's notice.

When it comes to volunteer events like these, you want to go with the
most common fasteners so that anyone (and everyone) can pitch in. # 2
phillips screws are still the most common and I don't see that
changing any time soon - even if square drives are better.



The problem you mention is easily solved by having a few packages of #2
square drive bits. I work in Theatre, we put up and tear down all the
time, and there is NO comparison, esp if the head has some paint in it.
Also, if a square drive bit becomes slightly worn, it can usually be
re-conditioned enough to finish the show, just by lightly tapping it on
a running belt sander, you can't do that with a phillips. I have known
places that used one type of fastener for all permanent inventory, and
the other fastener for stuff that is meant to last just for the show.
then if only one driver type is on the deck at strike, the good stuff
gets saved.

BTW, screws are a single use item. The biggest source of frustration is
trying to save and re-use screws.

[DoN. Nichols]

On 2010-04-13, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[ ... ]

Typically, it's coarse thread thread for wood studs, fine thread for
metal studs. The fine thread screws also have a sharper point so they
are easier to start, *especially* when trying to pierce metal studs.

When my old workplace (a government R&D lab) let out a contract
to re-cover all the 30-year-old linoleum-topped metal desks with new
fake wood (particle board with wood-grain print plastic on it), they
simply dropped the new top over the existing one (made to be a pretty
good fit with sides which overlapped the metal top sides), and used some
intersting screws. At first glance, they looked like drywall screws,
but examining one showed that instead of having a sharp spiral point,
they had a drill bit point, so they would drill through the metal and
then thread in -- going into pre-drilled and countersunk holes in the
sides of the new top.

That is now about twenty years ago, so I wonder what the desk
tops look like now. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

[DerbyDad03]

On Apr 13, 10:21*pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 5:37 pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --
Purpose? *Applications?
The *minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. *Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.
I'm guessing the following:
Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs..
* Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. * Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? *I've seen some much
heavier than others.
Coarse thread for particle board et al.
Fine thread for hardwood.
Opinions?
The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
screws.
www.mcFeelys.com

About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
far as I'm concerned!

Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"square drive is the ONLY option as far as I'm concerned!"

Unless you think you might find yourself with the need to disassemble
what you've put together and there's a danger of no (or not enough)
square drive bits being available.

I'm often involved in set-up and tear downs for events where lots of
dry wall screws are used. You can *always* find a screw gun, usually
with a # 2 phillips bit already installed, within arm's reach. Try
locating a square drive bit - and of the right size - when something
needs to fixed/adjusted with moment's notice.

When it comes to volunteer events like these, you want to go with the
most common fasteners so that anyone (and everyone) can pitch in. # 2
phillips screws are still the most common and I don't see that
changing any time soon - even if square drives are better.

The problem you mention is easily solved by having a few packages of #2
square drive bits. *I work in Theatre, we put up and tear down all the
time, and there is NO comparison, esp if the head has some paint in it.
* Also, if a square drive bit becomes slightly worn, it can usually be
re-conditioned enough to finish the show, just by lightly tapping it on
a running belt sander, you can't do that with a phillips. *I have known
places that used one type of fastener for all permanent inventory, and
the other fastener for stuff that is meant to last just for the show.
then if only one driver type is on the deck at strike, the good stuff
gets saved.

BTW, screws are a single use item. *The biggest source of frustration is
trying to save and re-use screws.



1 - "The problem you mention is easily solved by having a few packages
of #2 square drive bits..."

2 - "BTW, screws are a single use item"

1 - Not really and 2 - not in all cases.

At the events that I'm talking about, the equipment that is used by
the competitors require - by rule - upwards of 40 # 2 Philips head dry
wall screws. Therefore, that is the bit that everyone has in their
screw guns. Square drive screws are not an an option in the
competitor's equipment. The screws for the competitor's equipment
don't get stressed or torqued very tight, so they are used over and
over and over again with no damage. The only time they get replaced is
when they get lost or rusty.

Now, as for the set up and tear down portions of the events, the
organizers opt for # 2 Philips head screws of various types and sizes
so that we're not constantly looking for and changing bits depending
on whether we're working on the competitor's equipment or the event
infrastructure. I know that these screws are single use items, but
there are many "helpers" who don't.

At one point I snuck in a bunch of those Deckmate screws that took the
square tip Phillips bits. I used them for the heavier construction
parts of the set up. Talk about Phillips bit chatter when other people
tried to take apart the stuff I had built! I was promptly told to
stick with standard # 2 Phillips in the future.

[The Daring Dufas[_6_]]

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 13, 5:37 pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --
Purpose? Applications?
The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.
I'm guessing the following:
Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've seen some much
heavier than others.
Coarse thread for particle board et al.
Fine thread for hardwood.
Opinions?
The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
screws.
www.mcFeelys.com

About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
far as I'm concerned!

Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"square drive is the ONLY option as far as I'm concerned!"

Unless you think you might find yourself with the need to disassemble
what you've put together and there's a danger of no (or not enough)
square drive bits being available.

I'm often involved in set-up and tear downs for events where lots of
dry wall screws are used. You can *always* find a screw gun, usually
with a # 2 phillips bit already installed, within arm's reach. Try
locating a square drive bit - and of the right size - when something
needs to fixed/adjusted with moment's notice.

When it comes to volunteer events like these, you want to go with the
most common fasteners so that anyone (and everyone) can pitch in. # 2
phillips screws are still the most common and I don't see that
changing any time soon - even if square drives are better.



I have two screwdrivers I carry in my pockets whenever I'm working.
The drivers have flat, Torx, Phillips and square bits because I
never know what I'll run into. The bits can also fit a power driver.
A good pocket screwdriver is hard to find and I found the best I've
ever owned a W W Grainger. It won't poke a hole in your pocket when
it's closed up with no bit in it.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5PA35?Pid=search

I also carry a lot of other stuff in my pockets that keeps me from
having to run back to the van for a tool.

TDD

[The Daring Dufas[_6_]]

wrote:
On Apr 13, 3:37 pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --
Purpose? Applications?
The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.
I'm guessing the following:
Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've seen some much
heavier than others.
Coarse thread for particle board et al.
Fine thread for hardwood.
Opinions?
The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
screws.
www.mcFeelys.com

About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
far as I'm concerned!

Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I dunno, I used quite a few pounds of square-drives putting up a
shed. The drivers didn't wear like a cross-point/Phillips bit would,
but quite a few heads stripped out or screws snapped off without
driving home. This was with decking screws, U.S.-made at that. I've
used a whole lot of regular-type sheetrock screws and didn't have that
problem. Wore out a bunch of driver bits, but never had a head
strip. Haven't seen stainless drywall screws or I would have used
those.

Have a bunch of trim screws off of Fords I picked up in the scrap yard
that had interesting threads, went into plastic parts. Were multi-
start threads, one start was coarse and heavy, like a sheetrock screw,
the other was shallow and thin. Hadn't seen anything like that
before. Seem to be pretty resistant to vibration, have to tighten up
the other trim screws after awhile, not those.

Stan

It seems like all of the new electrical panels I'm coming across these
days are using square drive screws or combo screws that will work with
flat, square or Phillips drivers. I like the torque handling capability
of the square drive screws and the absence of cam-out slippage.

TDD

[David Nebenzahl]

On 4/13/2010 7:40 PM spake thus:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 19:11:01 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I have never seen a square drive drywall screw. You actually want
drywall screws to cam out before they go in too deep.
That is also why a #2 drywall bit is a lot "pointier" that a regular
#2. It is a torque limiting design.

I do agree on just about any other type of screw. Phillips is not as
good as square for torque but torx is better than both of them,.

"I have never seen a square drive drywall screw."

After visiting here you will have:

http://www.fastenermegastore.com/fin...44.html?ref=23

These don't show the head, but are listed as Drywall Screws, Square
Drive Coarse

http://www.drillspot.com/hardware-an...-drive-coarse/

I suspect these are "drywall screws" are for drywall like "duct tape"
is for ducts.,
Good for everything but drywall. You do want a drywall screw to cam
out as soon as it bottoms, not when it is pulled as tight as you can
screw it.

But isn't that supposed to be a function of how you adjust your screw
gun to just dimple the drywall? Of course you're gonna drive the screw
right through the gyprock panel if you crank on it.

Not that I've ever used such a screw gun, nosiree.

But those square-drive screws would have been really nice going into
those old, hard Doug fir studs that caused the Phillips heads to get
ground into metal flakes ...


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Lloyd E. Sponenburgh[_3_]]

"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in
:

At first glance, they looked like drywall screws,
but examining one showed that instead of having a sharp spiral point,
they had a drill bit point, so they would drill through the metal and
then thread in -- going into pre-drilled and countersunk holes in the
sides of the new top.


Yeah? (Um... they're called "self-drilling sheet metal screws". Any ACE
Hardware store will have them) G

LLoyd

[Jules Richardson]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 16:08:42 -0700, stans4 wrote:
I dunno, I used quite a few pounds of square-drives putting up a shed.
The drivers didn't wear like a cross-point/Phillips bit would, but quite
a few heads stripped out or screws snapped off without driving home.
This was with decking screws, U.S.-made at that.

Maybe there are quality issues between brands? I've seen it before with
Phillips-head screws, where the amount of material forming the screw can
be a lot less from one vendor compared to another. The 'lesser' screws
just loved to snap when driven in, whereas the ones with thicker shafts
didn't. These days I always buy fastners from real stores (not online) so
I can check what I'm getting.

Have a bunch of trim screws off of Fords I picked up in the scrap yard
that had interesting threads, went into plastic parts. Were multi-
start threads, one start was coarse and heavy, like a sheetrock screw,
the other was shallow and thin. Hadn't seen anything like that before.

Seen that on doors before - I think it's so they can be screwed into
different types of material while retaining strength.

cheers

Jules

[Jules Richardson]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 22:27:20 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I suspect these are "drywall screws" are for drywall like "duct tape"
is for ducts.,
Good for everything but drywall. You do want a drywall screw to cam out
as soon as it bottoms, not when it is pulled as tight as you can screw
it.

But isn't that supposed to be a function of how you adjust your screw
gun to just dimple the drywall? Of course you're gonna drive the screw
right through the gyprock panel if you crank on it.

Yeah, that occurred to me, too...

Is there a name for the little clutch assembly that disconnects drive
when the screw is driven to the right depth? Can they be bought to fit on
regular drills? I don't remember seeing them at the store, but they're
the sort of widget that it might be useful to have.

But those square-drive screws would have been really nice going into
those old, hard Doug fir studs that caused the Phillips heads to get
ground into metal flakes ...

I think all the Phillips bits I have are Dewalt, and they're almost too
good - usually the bit takes a long time to wear, and the screw head
itself is the bit that gets messed up :-(

cheers

Jules

[James Waldby]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 06:28:43 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" ... [wrote]:

At first glance, they looked like drywall screws, but examining one
showed that instead of having a sharp spiral point, they had a drill
bit point, so they would drill through the metal and then thread in --
going into pre-drilled and countersunk holes in the sides of the new
top.

Yeah? (Um... they're called "self-drilling sheet metal screws". Any
ACE Hardware store will have them) G

But sheet metal screws don't look like drywall screws. More likely
they were Drill Point Drywall Screws, as shown at top of
http://www.aaronswoodscrews.com/DrywallScrews.htm and one screen
down in http://www.smithfast.com/drywallthreads.html. The latter
also shows (near the end, after the Trim Head Drywall Screws section)
Auger Point Deck Screws that look somewhat like drywall screws.
(With Type-17 point, as mentioned in the link Larry Jaques gave,
http://www.midstatesbolt.com/screwpoints.htm.)

--
jiw

[harry]

On Apr 14, 4:25�am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-04-13, DerbyDad03 wrote:

� � � � [ ... ]

Typically, it's coarse thread thread for wood studs, fine thread for
metal studs. The fine thread screws also have a sharper point so they
are easier to start, *especially* when trying to pierce metal studs.

� � � � When my old workplace (a government R&D lab) let out a contract
to re-cover all the 30-year-old linoleum-topped metal desks with new
fake wood (particle board with wood-grain print plastic on it), they
simply dropped the new top over the existing one (made to be a pretty
good fit with sides which overlapped the metal top sides), and used some
intersting screws. �At first glance, they looked like drywall screws,
but examining one showed that instead of having a sharp spiral point,
they had a drill bit point, so they would drill through the metal and
then thread in -- going into pre-drilled and countersunk holes in the
sides of the new top.

� � � � That is now about twenty years ago, so I wonder what the desk
tops look like now. :-)

� � � � Enjoy,
� � � � � � � � DoN.

--
�Email: � � | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
� � � � (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
� � � � � �--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

The screws you mention are for self drilling, self tapping holes in
fairly thick metal. The commonest place you see them is for fixing
steel roofing sheets to girders on agricultural/industrial buildings.
They usually come with a washer with a weather seal under it.

[Twayne[_3_]]

In news typed:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:37:18 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote:

About any screw you might want, and square drive is the
ONLY option as far as I'm concerned!

Stuart

I have never seen a square drive drywall screw. You
actually want drywall screws to cam out before they go in
too deep.

That sounds like a very unlikely candidate for doing a good
job. Most of the jobs Ive done wouldn't "cam out" until the
head of the screw reached the wood underneath.

That is also why a #2 drywall bit is a lot "pointier" that
a regular #2. It is a torque limiting design.

They are "pointier" to provide a more sure and quicker start.
It has little to do with a torque limiting design that I've
ever heard of. Once past the "pointy" part, the diameter
becomes consistant and unchanging. Can you cite that in any
verifiable way? I'd be interested in knowing such information
if I'm wrong about it. The torque needed to drive drywall
screws is almost nothing to most drivers these days.

I have used square drive drywall screws. No big deal; you stop
driving at the proper point or you don't. You either become
proficient at knowing when to pull the driver back or you use
a tool that stops the drive at the proper point (depth); which
is extremely handy BTW and not expensive.
Adjustable torque isn't the answer as wood varies a lot in
hardness over its length. And trusting "cam out", whatever
that means, is even less of an answer since it also depends on
the wood having the same hardness throughout which isn't the
case. IME only the tool can do a 100% successful job of it and
then you still have to adjust it correctly. If you don't have
a tool then variable speed and eyeballs are the next best
answer IMO.

HTH,

Twayne`

I do agree on just about any other type of screw. Phillips
is not as good as square for torque but torx is better than
both of them,.

[Twayne[_3_]]

In ,
Jules Richardson typed:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 22:27:20 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote:
....


Is there a name for the little clutch assembly that
disconnects drive when the screw is driven to the right
depth? Can they be bought to fit on regular drills? I don't
remember seeing them at the store, but they're the sort of
widget that it might be useful to have.

I don't recall what they're called but they aren't expensive.
I got mine either at Harbor Freight or Sears; forget which
now. Handy for all kinds of jobs.

HTH,

Twayne`

But those square-drive screws would have been really nice
going into those old, hard Doug fir studs that caused the
Phillips heads to get ground into metal flakes ...

I think all the Phillips bits I have are Dewalt, and
they're almost too good - usually the bit takes a long time
to wear, and the screw head itself is the bit that gets
messed up :-(

cheers

Jules

[Existential Angst]

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

Purpose? Applications?

The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.

Heh, I'm surprised that some here have asserted that it is the fine thread
that's used on metal studs, coarse for wood.
Not disputing it, just surprised that this would be so, as it would seem
that the greater the ratio of major to minor diameter, the more grab
possible on thin sheet metal.

In fact, there's a company that exploits this with some fancy sheet metal
screws -- forgot their name, but I have a sample pack from them somewhere...

In re-thinking all this, pilot holes could be used to tailor any material to
a coarse thread. Except that, well, altho pilot holes are good, they are
also a pita.

I used to buy only fine thread, pretty much out of reflex, but now I find
myself much more leaning toward coarse thread, overall.
Plus, coarse threads are easier to tap, less chip binding it seems.

My understanding is that fine threads on big bolts is a torque/force
consideration, for getting mating stuff really tight.

But, other than that, I think fine threads may be pretty much superfluous
for general applications, unless, for example, metal studs really do call
for a fine thread screw.

Bottom line is, I think I've convinced myself to dispense with fine thread
anything, unless an application specifically benefits from a fine thread.
Sure will simplify the organization/storage aspect.
--
EA





Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

fyi, there exists a 3/4" and 1 1/8 SR xcrew, very hard to find.
The 3/4 is VERY handy, when screwing from the back side of a good face,
and the 1 1/8 occasionally comes in handy.
A good hardware store, proly one that sells SR screws by the pound, can
order a 25# box. If he hesitates, tell him that the 3/4" will FLY out of
the store when people grok their utility.
--
EA

[RangersSuck]

On Apr 13, 4:46*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
Awl --

Purpose? *Applications?

The *minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on the
coarse. *Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
* *Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. * Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? *I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

fyi, there exists a 3/4" and *1 1/8 SR xcrew, very hard to find.
The 3/4 is VERY handy, when screwing from the back side of a good face, and
the 1 1/8 occasionally comes in handy.
A good hardware store, proly one that sells SR screws by the pound, can
order a 25# box. *If he hesitates, tell him that the 3/4" will FLY out of
the store when people grok their utility.
--
EA

Just my two cents worth:

I've always thought that the fine threads were for metal studs.

I've used the self-drilling ones in metal studs, but also in one room
in my house where the ceiling joists were made of something resembling
kryptonite. The normal sharp-pointed screws would just not screw all
the way in. The self-drilling ones shot right in.

Also, for what it's worth, coarse threads require fewer turns to screw
in, and therefore, go in faster.

Just sayin'

[Bob Engelhardt]

rangerssuck wrote:
...
Also, for what it's worth, coarse threads require fewer turns to screw
in, and therefore, go in faster.

Ah, not so. Well, sometimes, maybe. The fine thread screws are
double-threaded, so they go in twice as fast as they would otherwise.

Bob

[Oren[_2_]]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:45:18 -0400, "Twayne"
wrote:

In ,
Jules Richardson typed:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 22:27:20 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote:
...


Is there a name for the little clutch assembly that
disconnects drive when the screw is driven to the right
depth? Can they be bought to fit on regular drills? I don't
remember seeing them at the store, but they're the sort of
widget that it might be useful to have.

I don't recall what they're called but they aren't expensive.
I got mine either at Harbor Freight or Sears; forget which
now. Handy for all kinds of jobs.


_Dimpler Phillips Drywall Screw Setter, #2_

"Use for drywall applications. The Dimpler is reversible, while
chucked, push in, then turn to lock for reverse feature. It is also
preset to drive screws to the perfect depth and feature an automatic
clutch release to eliminate drywall tear-out..."

http://www.hardwarestore.com/

[RangersSuck]

On Apr 14, 5:11*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:
...
Also, for what it's worth, coarse threads require fewer turns to screw
in, and therefore, go in faster.

Ah, not so. *Well, sometimes, maybe. *The fine thread screws are
double-threaded, so they go in twice as fast as they would otherwise.

Bob

Now I gotta go look. But not 'till morning.

[DoN. Nichols]

On 2010-04-14, James Waldby wrote:
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 06:28:43 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" ... [wrote]:

At first glance, they looked like drywall screws, but examining one
showed that instead of having a sharp spiral point, they had a drill
bit point, so they would drill through the metal and then thread in --
going into pre-drilled and countersunk holes in the sides of the new
top.

Yeah? (Um... they're called "self-drilling sheet metal screws". Any
ACE Hardware store will have them) G

But sheet metal screws don't look like drywall screws. More likely
they were Drill Point Drywall Screws, as shown at top of
http://www.aaronswoodscrews.com/DrywallScrews.htm and one screen

Yes -- drill point bugle head blued like other drywall screws
I've seen.

down in http://www.smithfast.com/drywallthreads.html. The latter
also shows (near the end, after the Trim Head Drywall Screws section)
Auger Point Deck Screws that look somewhat like drywall screws.
(With Type-17 point, as mentioned in the link Larry Jaques gave,
http://www.midstatesbolt.com/screwpoints.htm.)

The first SELF-DRILLING in that list (just past "TYPE 25 POINT"
is exactly what they were using. And given the application, they made
sense. One tool (battery powered drill/driver), one screwdriver bit
(Phillips) and the screw which did its own drilling. Not what I would
have used to make a pretty job, but something which got the contract
done quickly. :-)

The screws were guided by the pre-drilled holes in the
replacement desk tops, and the steel which they had to drill through was
probably about 12 Gauge or thicker. (I never tried to measure it, but
those were *heavy* GSA steel desks.)

In case it matters, I'm in here from rec.crafts.metalworking,
not from alt.home.repair, so what I regularly work with is likely quite
different from what the ahr crowd (who is part of the cross-posting) does.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

[Twayne[_3_]]

In ,
Bob Engelhardt typed:
rangerssuck wrote:
...
Also, for what it's worth, coarse threads require fewer
turns to screw in, and therefore, go in faster.

Ah, not so. Well, sometimes, maybe. The fine thread
screws are double-threaded, so they go in twice as fast as
they would otherwise.
Bob

No, they are not double-threaded. YOu're thinking of something
else. Coarse is just that; a much coarser thread, more
diameter than a fine, and fewer turns to drive in but I've
never found that to be an issue of any kind.

HTH,

Twayne`

[benick[_2_]]

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

Purpose? Applications?

The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
(mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.

I'm guessing the following:

Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've seen some much
heavier than others.

Coarse thread for particle board et al.

Fine thread for hardwood.

Opinions?

fyi, there exists a 3/4" and 1 1/8 SR xcrew, very hard to find.
The 3/4 is VERY handy, when screwing from the back side of a good face,
and the 1 1/8 occasionally comes in handy.
A good hardware store, proly one that sells SR screws by the pound, can
order a 25# box. If he hesitates, tell him that the 3/4" will FLY out of
the store when people grok their utility.
--
EA


There are 4 types of screws typically used for drywall..

Coarse Thread from 1inch for pocket door walls to 3 inch for going over old
sheetrock/plaster , multiple layers in firewalls ...For use with WOOD studs

Sharp Point fine thread..Same as above except for use in METAL framing..

Self Tapping fine thread , sams as above but for higher gauge steel like in
exterior or load bearing steel framed walls..

Laminating Screws...Fat coarse thread 1 1/4 screws for laminating sheetrock
on steel framed walls as in stairwells or elevator shafts where sheetrock
thickness is an inch or more...

Other than sheetrock I use Torx...Square heads are good as well....

[Bob Engelhardt]

Twayne wrote:
Bob Engelhardt typed:
Ah, not so. Well, sometimes, maybe. The fine thread
screws are double-threaded, ...

No, they are not double-threaded. ...

Well, rather than get into a ****ing contest, I took a picture. It's a
drywall screw, with paint stick filling its grooves and a pick run in
one thread:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/DrywallScrew.jpg

That this DW screw IS double threaded is clear. I did not assert that
they all are - I haven't looked at all of them. Apparently you have
not either.

HTH,
Bob

[Existential Angst]

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Twayne wrote:
Bob Engelhardt typed:
Ah, not so. Well, sometimes, maybe. The fine thread
screws are double-threaded, ...

No, they are not double-threaded. ...

Well, rather than get into a ****ing contest, I took a picture. It's a
drywall screw, with paint stick filling its grooves and a pick run in one
thread:

Dats a pretty ingenious technique!

Just looking at it, I would not have suspected double grooves!

I wonder what that double grooving really accomplishes, ito the mechanical
interaction between the screw and wood, or the screw and thin stud metal.

--
EA




http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/DrywallScrew.jpg

That this DW screw IS double threaded is clear. I did not assert that
they all are - I haven't looked at all of them. Apparently you have not
either.

HTH,
Bob

[Existential Angst]

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Twayne wrote:
Bob Engelhardt typed:
Ah, not so. Well, sometimes, maybe. The fine thread
screws are double-threaded, ...

No, they are not double-threaded. ...

Well, rather than get into a ****ing contest, I took a picture. It's a
drywall screw, with paint stick filling its grooves and a pick run in one
thread:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/DrywallScrew.jpg

That this DW screw IS double threaded is clear.


Heh, well, here's a tidbit of a factoid for you:

Dat double groove is a facsimile of DNA, the proverbial double helix.

The DIFF, tho, is, that while the spacing of the double groove in this screw
appears uniform, in DNA one helix is slightly offset relative to the other,
resulting in a "major groove" and a "minor groove".
Iow, to trace the "thinner" minor groove, your pick would have to be sharper
than for the major groove.

Oh, and for the record, my periodic diatribe against Watson and Crick :

Watson and Crick did not "discover" the structure of DNA.
Rather, they ROBBED the discovery from Linus Pauling, by pirating Roslyn
Franklin's x-ray data, cuz they knew if Pauling woulda seen it, he would
have deduced the structure *in minutes*.

Heh, talk about being sheet-rock screwed....

How does I know this?
Cuz Pauling had *already* correctly deduced the *triple helix* of the
protein alpha keratin, AND he had already deduced the double helix structure
of DNA!!!!
BUT, he had incorrectly placed the phosphate backbones on the inside,
instead of the outside.
So all he needed was a few of Franklin's x-ray dots, and BANG, problem
solved.

Also, fuknWatson obliquely admitted this in his book The Double Helix.
For some reason, Charlie Rose sees fit to regularly blow Watson on his show.
MMMMmmmmmm
**** Watson.

HTH

--
EA






I did not assert that
they all are - I haven't looked at all of them. Apparently you have not
either.

HTH,
Bob

[Twayne[_3_]]

In ,
Bob Engelhardt typed:

Improper attribution: I did not write that.

Twayne

Twayne wrote:
Bob Engelhardt typed:
Ah, not so. Well, sometimes, maybe. The fine thread
screws are double-threaded, ...

No, they are not double-threaded. ...

Well, rather than get into a ****ing contest, I took a
picture. It's a drywall screw, with paint stick filling
its grooves and a pick run in one thread:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/DrywallScrew.jpg

That this DW screw IS double threaded is clear. I did not
assert that they all are - I haven't looked at all of
them. Apparently you have not either.

HTH,
Bob