"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:05:21 -0500, "Sanity"
wrote:

No one is putting a gun to
your head to live in an HOA. If you don't like it don't move there. But
if
you do, you are required to read the docs prior to making the purchase
then
abide by them.

True, but a 6-year old is not the responsible one. After all SHE is
the one being evicted, not the owners that signed the documents.

IMO, they are evicting the wrong person.

She is not the responsible one. She is just the one who will suffer.

Steve

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
mm wrote the following:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:37:17 -0500, willshak
wrote:


Whether or not you have childrenin school, or did have them at one
time, moving into a senior housing community does not exempt you from
statel school taxes, at least, not here in NYS. I'm 72, and the
youngest of my children is 30 years old. I still pay state school
taxes.


Don't despair. Maybe he will graduate soon. Or at least he can get a
high school equivalency certificate.

Are senior citizens exempt from state school taxes in your state?


I had the impression in at least one state, they paid a lower property
tax rate.

Bill



What state?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

YOUR STATE!!!!!! Ever hear of the STAR program in NY?

Yes, and I do use it. Maybe you should read the line that I was
questioning? about PROPERTY taxes? You, see, 'STAR' stands for "School TAx
Relief ", not "PROPERTY": tax relief, else it would be PTAR, which
wouldn't make sense, unless it was pronounced somewhat like pteradactyl,
where the P would be silent, but I digress.
They are separate taxes where I live in NY. I pay both property taxes and
school taxes.

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

And an adult community pays property tax and very little school tax. Why is
that different from what you are paying?

Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
wrote the following:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:06:45 -0500, mm
wrote:


On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:17:53 -0600, Hell Toupee
wrote:


HeyBub wrote:

"[FLORIDA] Kimberly, a 6-year-old in the custody of her
grandparents, is facing eviction by local law enforcement
because her grandparents live in a retirement community. The
child has lived in the house her whole life, as her mother is
unable to care for her due to unspecified drug problems. Now
authorities plan to remove the girl from the only home she's
ever known and place her in foster care with strangers due to a
homeowners association policy."

I agree. 'God's Waiting Room' (Florida) is no place for a child!

http://www.inquisitr.com/43825/flori...ct-6-year-old/

Florida chose to develop itself via planned communities and
HOAs, in order to shift most of the costs of infrastructure
development initially onto the developer who builds the
community, then assumed by the homeowners who take on the debt
not only for the home they buy, but for the development's costs,
too. That's the primary purpose of the HOA - to collect funds
for the debt payments and to keep their community maintained.
Making up additional rules is what they get to do to make their
community more appealing for those who believe rules are for
everyone else. If the citizens of that state keep bitching
about their big bad HOAs, they should vote to implement an
income tax on themselves, so the state will be able to fund
infrastructure, instead of forcing developers and homeowners to
assume the debt via homeowner's associations.

That's hardly the only remedy to this situation. The legistlature
could also ban HOAs from excluding chidren.
This wouldn't require any change in taxes.


It would require a HUGE change in taxes. Over half the annual budget
for any community with children goes for schools.

Whether or not you have childrenin school, or did have them at one
time, moving into a senior housing community does not exempt you
from statel school taxes, at least, not here in NYS. I'm 72, and
the youngest of my children is 30 years old. I still pay state
school taxes. Are senior citizens exempt from state school taxes
in your state?


Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


You're full of crap. New York State has the STAR program for
seniors and they only pay a very small percentage of the school taxes.


I said I am paying taxes for kids that I don't have in school,
whether or not there is a reduced rate because of my age.
And try to keep your personal attacks to yourself, unless you are
unable to control yourself.

--
Bill

In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Well, adult communities also pay a reduced rate just like you do and
the only way they can do it by law is NOT TO HAVE CHILDREN LIVING IN
THE COMMUNITY. Is that too hard for you to understand? What if NYS
eliminated the STAR program. You'd bitch like all hell because you had
to pay full school taxes while not having children in school anymore.
Adult communities do not pay a reduced rate in school taxes, or do they
pay school taxes at all? Residents of the communities pay the taxes, and
they get the same advantages, if any, of other state residents wherever
they may live, whether in communities, or in remote areas.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:11:29 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:

We do reserve studies for HOAs in the State of Nevada.

Steve,

What is a reserve study and what's the purpose? I noticed you
mentioned this before and was curious.

Reserve studies started with a mandate from the State of Florida. Lots of
HOAs were taking in dues, and not being accountable for them. Either
spending too much, disappearing books, or giving sweetheart deals to
cronies. Others were not taking in enough, and then owners were being sent
special assessments for thousands of dollars when a sewer went out, or
pavement needed replaced, or some big ticket item came due, and there wasn't
enough money for it.

Nevada adopted a version of Florida's law. Under it, a certified reserve
specialist licensed by the State makes a physical inspection of the
property. Everything that is paid for out of the dues is photographed,
mathematically counted (as square foot of asphalt), given a life span, given
a replacement value (such as a pool pump motor). This study is turned in to
the next step, which compiles all this on Excel spreadsheets, and the
spreadsheets and pictures are sent in book form to the management company or
HOA board.

In there are projections that project how much money needs to be collected
in order to pay for these things as they wear out. If it is a new property,
it is done in a 30 year projection. If it is not, it is prorated on
remaining life. Financials are taken into consideration, and they either
have or don't have enough money in the bank to be on target for the budget.
A POPM is calculated, and that is a Per Owner Per Month. Dues are then
either raised, lowered, or remain the same, but the homeowner has an exact
report of where their dues are going.

HOA's (which consist of members and the board) can then assess if they want
to spend that much on that item, and take a vote. Lately, they have been
xeriscaping, and therefore cutting down on lawn maintenance and water bills.
These are some ways that they can adjust their budgets. Other items are
fixed, and can not be altered, such as painting every X years, or roof
repair, or pool replastering, or as now, meeting the new federal mandates
regarding pool and spa filter entrapment retrofitting.

In Nevada, dues cannot go up more than 25% in a fiscal HOA year. Smaller
studies are required every year on a casual inspection basis, and full
studies required every five years. Adjustments to dues can be made every
year.

This is to try to be sure there is enough money in the bank to pay for
upcoming maintenance and replacement, and to catch anyone who is
overspending or giving sweetheart contracts within a year.

It is a state to state basis. All states do not have this requirement.

HTH. Any more questions, ask away.

Steve

Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
mm wrote the following:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:37:17 -0500, willshak
wrote:


Whether or not you have childrenin school, or did have them at
one time, moving into a senior housing community does not exempt
you from statel school taxes, at least, not here in NYS. I'm 72,
and the youngest of my children is 30 years old. I still pay
state school taxes.


Don't despair. Maybe he will graduate soon. Or at least he can
get a
high school equivalency certificate.

Are senior citizens exempt from state school taxes in your state?


I had the impression in at least one state, they paid a lower
property
tax rate.

Bill



What state?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

YOUR STATE!!!!!! Ever hear of the STAR program in NY?

Yes, and I do use it. Maybe you should read the line that I was
questioning? about PROPERTY taxes? You, see, 'STAR' stands for
"School TAx Relief ", not "PROPERTY": tax relief, else it would be
PTAR, which wouldn't make sense, unless it was pronounced somewhat
like pteradactyl, where the P would be silent, but I digress.
They are separate taxes where I live in NY. I pay both property taxes
and school taxes.

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

And an adult community pays property tax and very little school tax.
Why is that different from what you are paying?
Well, my area allows children, and even pets. Let's go back to the
original message and start over, shall we?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"willshak" wrote

Of course, today's society blames everyone else for their problems.

Correction: The ruling elite blames and holds everyone else responsible for
the person's problems except for that person.

Steve

Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
wrote the following:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:06:45 -0500, mm
wrote:


On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:17:53 -0600, Hell Toupee
wrote:


HeyBub wrote:

"[FLORIDA] Kimberly, a 6-year-old in the custody of her
grandparents, is facing eviction by local law enforcement
because her grandparents live in a retirement community. The
child has lived in the house her whole life, as her mother is
unable to care for her due to unspecified drug problems. Now
authorities plan to remove the girl from the only home she's
ever known and place her in foster care with strangers due to a
homeowners association policy."

I agree. 'God's Waiting Room' (Florida) is no place for a child!

http://www.inquisitr.com/43825/flori...ct-6-year-old/

Florida chose to develop itself via planned communities and
HOAs, in order to shift most of the costs of infrastructure
development initially onto the developer who builds the
community, then assumed by the homeowners who take on the debt
not only for the home they buy, but for the development's costs,
too. That's the primary purpose of the HOA - to collect funds
for the debt payments and to keep their community maintained.
Making up additional rules is what they get to do to make their
community more appealing for those who believe rules are for
everyone else. If the citizens of that state keep bitching
about their big bad HOAs, they should vote to implement an
income tax on themselves, so the state will be able to fund
infrastructure, instead of forcing developers and homeowners to
assume the debt via homeowner's associations.

That's hardly the only remedy to this situation. The legistlature
could also ban HOAs from excluding chidren.
This wouldn't require any change in taxes.


It would require a HUGE change in taxes. Over half the annual budget
for any community with children goes for schools.

Whether or not you have childrenin school, or did have them at one
time, moving into a senior housing community does not exempt you
from statel school taxes, at least, not here in NYS. I'm 72, and
the youngest of my children is 30 years old. I still pay state
school taxes. Are senior citizens exempt from state school taxes
in your state?


Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


You're full of crap. New York State has the STAR program for
seniors and they only pay a very small percentage of the school taxes.


I said I am paying taxes for kids that I don't have in school,
whether or not there is a reduced rate because of my age.
And try to keep your personal attacks to yourself, unless you are
unable to control yourself.

--
Bill

In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


And what about people that pay taxes for roads even though they don't
drive?

OK. What about them, and what does it have anything about kids or
children in adult communities?
Why don't you get some rest and start over tomorrow morning?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department and
abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the rules,
don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about the child
and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child into your home.
That would solve all the problems. The grandparents could continue to
live in an adult home and the child could live with a juvenile father in
his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the fact
that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What don't YOU
understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose
that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Cheri" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


If there were a little less of breaking the rules going on in the world
today, perhaps the grandparents wouldn't be raising the granddaughter in
the first place. Just a thought.


Cute homily, but it really doesn't address addiction. You will now
attempt to disagree. You will fail.

Only in your mind.

Cheri

Are you saying that addiction is purely a matter of "breaking rules"?

Yes or no?

Is that what you are saying?

wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hell Toupee wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I guess you're right. It would be the best thing for society at large
if the little girl was dumped into Florida's "system".
Too bad her grandparents put their comfort first, isn't it? They made a
choice, reinforced over years, to put their granddaughter's future at
risk. She pays the penalty for having lousy parents and grandparents.

Knowing several foster parents, there's a good chance she could end up
being raised by more responsible adults. You know - the kind who put
the child's interests ahead of their own. Unlike granny and gramps in
this story.
Kinda helps explain why the mother has been a junkie for six years, in
spite of her kid being in danger of going into foster care system.


Are you saying it's the grandparents' fault that their daughter has a
drug problem?
I have no way of knowing, but often it isn't surprising.

Science says otherwise, but never mind.

"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department and
abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child into
your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents could
continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with a
juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the fact
that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What don't
YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose that
order. True?


That is an erroneous conclusion.

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department and
abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child into
your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents could
continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with a
juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the fact
that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What don't
YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?


Yes, I read the article. And what don't you understand that if the
grandparents do not move out of this development and are still violating
the law, the judge could put the child into foster car.
Let me ask you a question. Do you stop for a red light? Do you pay taxes?
Why? IT'S THE LAW AND IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D BE IN VIOLATION AND SUBJECT TO
ALL THE PENALTIES SPECIFIED.
Let the grandparents move out of there and the problem is solved.


My overarching point here is that placing the child in foster care is a crap
shoot, especially in states like Florida which have had serious problems
with their social services agencies. Which would cause the greater harm to
society? Putting the kid in a home where she's abused, or a judge telling
the HOA that they need to chill for as long as it takes for the
grandparents' home to sell?

Sanity wrote the following:


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried
about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the
child into your home. That would solve all the problems. The
grandparents could continue to live in an adult home and the child
could live with a juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?


Yes, I read the article. And what don't you understand that if the
grandparents do not move out of this development and are still
violating the law, the judge could put the child into foster car.
Let me ask you a question. Do you stop for a red light? Do you pay
taxes? Why? IT'S THE LAW AND IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D BE IN VIOLATION AND
SUBJECT TO ALL THE PENALTIES SPECIFIED.
Let the grandparents move out of there and the problem is solved.

IT"S NOT THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
You don't understand the difference between the 'LAW" and 'rules'.
Federal and State laws supersede rules, especially when it comes to
discrimination.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Hell Toupee wrote:

Florida chose to develop itself via planned communities and HOAs, in
order to shift most of the costs of infrastructure development
initially onto the developer who builds the community, then assumed by
the homeowners who take on the debt not only for the home they buy,
but for the development's costs, too. That's the primary purpose of
the HOA - to collect funds for the debt payments and to keep their
community maintained. Making up additional rules is what they get to
do to make their community more appealing for those who believe rules
are for everyone else. If the citizens of that state keep bitching
about their big bad HOAs, they should vote to implement an income tax
on themselves, so the state will be able to fund infrastructure,
instead of forcing developers and homeowners to assume the debt via
homeowner's associations.

That is the most ****ed-up idea for promoting an income tax I EVER heard.
Someone buying into a community where debt reduction is part of their "dues"
is merely a substitute for an increased morgtage. The developer could have
spent his own money for roads, parks, etc., and melded that into the price
of the homes.

One chap recently moved from New York to Florida and saved on his income
tax. Of course everybody who does that saves, but this dude saved
THIRTY-THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS PER DAY by going John Galt on New York.

Steve B wrote:

We do reserve studies for HOAs in the State of Nevada. We have done
over 700 now. Our largest was 1200 acres.

Believe me, we've seen it all.

There may not, and there may never ever be a problem with this six
year old. She may become the darling of a bunch of people lonely for
their own grandchildren. She could possibly "adopt" a lot of new
grandparents, and have a happy full loving life there.

There are two problems. One is there is a precedent set, where the
next ones say, "Well, you let that one in, why not mine?"

There's too much worship of precedent. In the case you proposed, the answer
should be: "Because we liked the other kid and we don't like yours." Or
simply give no reason at all.

Years ago, Peter Lawford and his wife Patricia Kennedy tried to buy an
apartment in New York. They were refused. When pressed for a reason, the
housing committee said: "Because he's an actor and she's a Democrat. We
don't want either in our building."

JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"willshak" wrote in message
...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


"Sanity" wrote in message
...



No one said to put the child in foster care.


That is one of the options mentioned in the news.



An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department and
abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child into
your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents could
continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with a
juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the fact
that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What don't
YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose that
order. True?



That is an erroneous conclusion.

Joe, I don't want to think the worst of you, but, Pray tell, what is your conclusion, so we can better understand your position?
If your grandchild had to live with you, save your reasons to not have him/her live with you, what would you do?
Be forced to move out because of some Rule?
Better yet, answer this. Do you have children or grand children? Do you want the best for them?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

HeyBub wrote:
"[FLORIDA] Kimberly, a 6-year-old in the custody of her grandparents,
is facing eviction by local law enforcement because her grandparents
live in a retirement community. The child has lived in the house her
whole life, as her mother is unable to care for her due to
unspecified drug problems. Now authorities plan to remove the girl
from the only home she's ever known and place her in foster care with
strangers due to a homeowners association policy."

I agree. 'God's Waiting Room' (Florida) is no place for a child!

http://www.inquisitr.com/43825/flori...ict-6-year-old

I didn't expect such a long thread with such emphatic advocates on all sides
of the issue.

Still, the topic generated some thoughtful analysis, so it wasn't a total
waste of time. Amazingly everybody's in agreement that HOAs are the spawn of
Satan and those who sit on HOA boards should be cremated and the ashes
scattered.

Take no chances.

I suspect that a few HOA are operated by power mad petty
feifdom dictators. Fortunately, most HOA are operated by
direct lineal descendants of Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, and
Bennito Mussilini.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
HeyBub wrote:
"[FLORIDA] Kimberly, a 6-year-old in the custody of her
grandparents,
is facing eviction by local law enforcement because her
grandparents
live in a retirement community. The child has lived in the
house her
whole life, as her mother is unable to care for her due to
unspecified drug problems. Now authorities plan to remove
the girl
from the only home she's ever known and place her in
foster care with
strangers due to a homeowners association policy."

I agree. 'God's Waiting Room' (Florida) is no place for a
child!

http://www.inquisitr.com/43825/flori...ict-6-year-old

I didn't expect such a long thread with such emphatic
advocates on all sides
of the issue.

Still, the topic generated some thoughtful analysis, so it
wasn't a total
waste of time. Amazingly everybody's in agreement that HOAs
are the spawn of
Satan and those who sit on HOA boards should be cremated and
the ashes
scattered.

Take no chances.

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"willshak" wrote in message
...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


"Sanity" wrote in message
...



No one said to put the child in foster care.


That is one of the options mentioned in the news.



An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child
into your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents
could continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with
a juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose
that order. True?



That is an erroneous conclusion.

Joe, I don't want to think the worst of you, but, Pray tell, what is your
conclusion, so we can better understand your position?
If your grandchild had to live with you, save your reasons to not have
him/her live with you, what would you do? Be forced to move out because of
some Rule?
Better yet, answer this. Do you have children or grand children? Do you
want the best for them?



I have one kid, no grandkids yet. If I had been in the Florida couple's
situation at the beginning of the mess, and **IF** it's true that the house
was inherited, I would've been out the door quickly after the complaints
became serious. Anything to avoid having the little girl end up in foster
care.

Hopefully, this case will be heard by a real judge, not some local town
justice like the kind we have in many small New York towns, with little or
no legal training.

Steve B wrote the following:
"willshak" wrote

.

Does your HOA rules say that a certain type of person cannot live in the
community?
We are not talking about vehicles, or how your property is kept, we are
talking about HUMAN BEINGS.
Maybe your HOA does not like your kind and wants to evict you? Then what
will be your rssponse?

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY


You're kidding, right? HOA rules in writing regarding "those type" of
people? But, yes, they are legally able to limit the minimum ages of
residents. They can be classified as "visitors", and a time limit put on
their stay.

Federal guidelines and laws were enacted in the last decades or so regarding
"those types" of people, and a lot of it had to do with minorities, gays,
and other "types" of people. HOA's are very limited in evicting people who
live there, just as any other landowner in the US is horribly limited when
evicting people from their properties. Renters can take up to six months to
evict in some places, all the while doing damage. And there's not a thing
the owner can do about it.

Were a HOA foolish enough to want to "evict" a person for personal reasons,
such as "that type" of person, "that/those person(s)" would profit greatly
monetarily from such actions. The person who holds ownership, such as a
bank, is the only one who can "evict."

HOAs can put liens against properties easily for having to clean up in
excess of normal maintenence. They can lien for towing vehicles. They can
lien if the property owner does not comply regarding landscape and such.
Then it all gets settled when the property is sold. They can call in for
excessive noise, child endangerment, child neglect, children left
unattended, underage drinking, the smell of drugs, and anything else that
everyone else can "legally" call the police about. THEY CAN NOT DO A LOT
ABOUT ANYONE THEY "JUST DON'T LIKE". Other than wage a covert war to make
life miserable until the people move out.

Which is what they usually do, and it really does turn into a war. If the
feds get involved, it's usually their side that wins. So, if someone is
stupid enough to violate federal statutes and start a war, they should just
as well go out and play football in a field full of cactuses. Writing
bylaws that describe and outline "that type of people" are digging a hole
from the get go.

Steve





Ho-hum.
You bring up vehicles, property maintenance, and other non-issues. You
apparently don't have children or grandchildren, so you can't emphasize
with people that do.
Besides, why are you responding to my post? Didn't you killfile me over
the 'star drill' thread we had 2 years ago, when you admonished others
to not respond to my "troll" messages? Please killfile me again. Thank you.

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"willshak" wrote in message
...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
mm wrote the following:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:37:17 -0500, willshak
wrote:


Whether or not you have childrenin school, or did have them at one
time, moving into a senior housing community does not exempt you
from statel school taxes, at least, not here in NYS. I'm 72, and the
youngest of my children is 30 years old. I still pay state school
taxes.


Don't despair. Maybe he will graduate soon. Or at least he can get
a
high school equivalency certificate.

Are senior citizens exempt from state school taxes in your state?


I had the impression in at least one state, they paid a lower
property
tax rate.

Bill



What state?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

YOUR STATE!!!!!! Ever hear of the STAR program in NY?

Yes, and I do use it. Maybe you should read the line that I was
questioning? about PROPERTY taxes? You, see, 'STAR' stands for "School
TAx Relief ", not "PROPERTY": tax relief, else it would be PTAR, which
wouldn't make sense, unless it was pronounced somewhat like pteradactyl,
where the P would be silent, but I digress.
They are separate taxes where I live in NY. I pay both property taxes
and school taxes.

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

And an adult community pays property tax and very little school tax. Why
is that different from what you are paying?
Well, my area allows children, and even pets. Let's go back to the
original message and start over, shall we?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

And you don't have adult communities in your area?

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child into
your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents could
continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with a
juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?


Yes, I read the article. And what don't you understand that if the
grandparents do not move out of this development and are still violating
the law, the judge could put the child into foster car.
Let me ask you a question. Do you stop for a red light? Do you pay
taxes? Why? IT'S THE LAW AND IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D BE IN VIOLATION AND
SUBJECT TO ALL THE PENALTIES SPECIFIED.
Let the grandparents move out of there and the problem is solved.


My overarching point here is that placing the child in foster care is a
crap shoot, especially in states like Florida which have had serious
problems with their social services agencies. Which would cause the
greater harm to society? Putting the kid in a home where she's abused, or
a judge telling the HOA that they need to chill for as long as it takes
for the grandparents' home to sell?

They've already had six years. Do you think they'd make an honest attempt to
sell if not forced to?

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child into
your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents could
continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with a
juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?


Yes, I read the article. And what don't you understand that if the
grandparents do not move out of this development and are still violating
the law, the judge could put the child into foster car.
Let me ask you a question. Do you stop for a red light? Do you pay
taxes? Why? IT'S THE LAW AND IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D BE IN VIOLATION AND
SUBJECT TO ALL THE PENALTIES SPECIFIED.
Let the grandparents move out of there and the problem is solved.

IT"S NOT THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
You don't understand the difference between the 'LAW" and 'rules'. Federal
and State laws supersede rules, especially when it comes to
discrimination.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

And an Adult community is approved by Federal and State laws. The docs
concerning children in a adult community are in accordance with Federal and
State laws so don't tell me there's a difference between law and rules.

"willshak" wrote in message
...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
wrote the following:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:06:45 -0500, mm
wrote:


On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:17:53 -0600, Hell Toupee
wrote:


HeyBub wrote:

"[FLORIDA] Kimberly, a 6-year-old in the custody of her
grandparents, is facing eviction by local law enforcement because
her grandparents live in a retirement community. The child has
lived in the house her whole life, as her mother is unable to care
for her due to unspecified drug problems. Now authorities plan to
remove the girl from the only home she's ever known and place her
in foster care with strangers due to a homeowners association
policy."

I agree. 'God's Waiting Room' (Florida) is no place for a child!

http://www.inquisitr.com/43825/flori...ct-6-year-old/
Florida chose to develop itself via planned communities and HOAs,
in order to shift most of the costs of infrastructure development
initially onto the developer who builds the community, then assumed
by the homeowners who take on the debt not only for the home they
buy, but for the development's costs, too. That's the primary
purpose of the HOA - to collect funds for the debt payments and to
keep their community maintained. Making up additional rules is what
they get to do to make their community more appealing for those who
believe rules are for everyone else. If the citizens of that state
keep bitching about their big bad HOAs, they should vote to
implement an income tax on themselves, so the state will be able to
fund infrastructure, instead of forcing developers and homeowners
to assume the debt via homeowner's associations.

That's hardly the only remedy to this situation. The legistlature
could also ban HOAs from excluding chidren.
This wouldn't require any change in taxes.


It would require a HUGE change in taxes. Over half the annual budget
for any community with children goes for schools.

Whether or not you have childrenin school, or did have them at one
time, moving into a senior housing community does not exempt you from
statel school taxes, at least, not here in NYS. I'm 72, and the
youngest of my children is 30 years old. I still pay state school
taxes. Are senior citizens exempt from state school taxes in your
state?


Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


You're full of crap. New York State has the STAR program for seniors
and they only pay a very small percentage of the school taxes.


I said I am paying taxes for kids that I don't have in school, whether
or not there is a reduced rate because of my age.
And try to keep your personal attacks to yourself, unless you are unable
to control yourself.

--
Bill

In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


And what about people that pay taxes for roads even though they don't
drive?

OK. What about them, and what does it have anything about kids or children
in adult communities?
Why don't you get some rest and start over tomorrow morning?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

And why don't you study up on federal and state law concerning adult
communities before mouthing off with your unintelligent remarks?

"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department and
abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child into
your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents could
continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with a
juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the fact
that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What don't
YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose that
order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale and moved
to a neighborhood with many children so that my grandchild could have friend
her/his age. I have always obeyed the laws and have never done anything to
harm friends or neighbors. Why should I put their rights in jeopardy. Of
course people like you don't give a damn about anyone else but themselves so
you wouldn't know about that.

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"willshak" wrote in message
...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


"Sanity" wrote in message
...



No one said to put the child in foster care.


That is one of the options mentioned in the news.



An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child
into your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents
could continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with
a juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose
that order. True?



That is an erroneous conclusion.

Joe, I don't want to think the worst of you, but, Pray tell, what is your
conclusion, so we can better understand your position?
If your grandchild had to live with you, save your reasons to not have
him/her live with you, what would you do? Be forced to move out because of
some Rule?
Better yet, answer this. Do you have children or grand children? Do you
want the best for them?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

It's not only a rule. It's a law. A community, under Federal and State
guidelines cannot be considered an adult community and cannot benefit as an
adult community unless at least one homeowner is 55 or over and NO children
under 21 will be living in the house. These are Federal and State
guidelines so stop your crap in blaming the HOA.

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Steve B wrote the following:
"willshak" wrote

.

Does your HOA rules say that a certain type of person cannot live in the
community?
We are not talking about vehicles, or how your property is kept, we are
talking about HUMAN BEINGS.
Maybe your HOA does not like your kind and wants to evict you? Then what
will be your rssponse?

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY


You're kidding, right? HOA rules in writing regarding "those type" of
people? But, yes, they are legally able to limit the minimum ages of
residents. They can be classified as "visitors", and a time limit put on
their stay.

Federal guidelines and laws were enacted in the last decades or so
regarding "those types" of people, and a lot of it had to do with
minorities, gays, and other "types" of people. HOA's are very limited in
evicting people who live there, just as any other landowner in the US is
horribly limited when evicting people from their properties. Renters can
take up to six months to evict in some places, all the while doing
damage. And there's not a thing the owner can do about it.

Were a HOA foolish enough to want to "evict" a person for personal
reasons, such as "that type" of person, "that/those person(s)" would
profit greatly monetarily from such actions. The person who holds
ownership, such as a bank, is the only one who can "evict."

HOAs can put liens against properties easily for having to clean up in
excess of normal maintenence. They can lien for towing vehicles. They
can lien if the property owner does not comply regarding landscape and
such. Then it all gets settled when the property is sold. They can call
in for excessive noise, child endangerment, child neglect, children left
unattended, underage drinking, the smell of drugs, and anything else that
everyone else can "legally" call the police about. THEY CAN NOT DO A LOT
ABOUT ANYONE THEY "JUST DON'T LIKE". Other than wage a covert war to
make life miserable until the people move out.

Which is what they usually do, and it really does turn into a war. If
the feds get involved, it's usually their side that wins. So, if someone
is stupid enough to violate federal statutes and start a war, they should
just as well go out and play football in a field full of cactuses.
Writing bylaws that describe and outline "that type of people" are
digging a hole from the get go.

Steve




Ho-hum.
You bring up vehicles, property maintenance, and other non-issues. You
apparently don't have children or grandchildren, so you can't emphasize
with people that do.
Besides, why are you responding to my post? Didn't you killfile me over
the 'star drill' thread we had 2 years ago, when you admonished others to
not respond to my "troll" messages? Please killfile me again. Thank you.

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes afte



Look up this statute and learn:

Federal Register 24 CFT Part 100; 760.24-760.37 (4a) - Fla. Statute

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Steve B wrote the following:
"willshak" wrote

.

Does your HOA rules say that a certain type of person cannot live in the
community?
We are not talking about vehicles, or how your property is kept, we are
talking about HUMAN BEINGS.
Maybe your HOA does not like your kind and wants to evict you? Then what
will be your rssponse?

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY


You're kidding, right? HOA rules in writing regarding "those type" of
people? But, yes, they are legally able to limit the minimum ages of
residents. They can be classified as "visitors", and a time limit put on
their stay.

Federal guidelines and laws were enacted in the last decades or so
regarding "those types" of people, and a lot of it had to do with
minorities, gays, and other "types" of people. HOA's are very limited in
evicting people who live there, just as any other landowner in the US is
horribly limited when evicting people from their properties. Renters can
take up to six months to evict in some places, all the while doing
damage. And there's not a thing the owner can do about it.

Were a HOA foolish enough to want to "evict" a person for personal
reasons, such as "that type" of person, "that/those person(s)" would
profit greatly monetarily from such actions. The person who holds
ownership, such as a bank, is the only one who can "evict."

HOAs can put liens against properties easily for having to clean up in
excess of normal maintenence. They can lien for towing vehicles. They
can lien if the property owner does not comply regarding landscape and
such. Then it all gets settled when the property is sold. They can call
in for excessive noise, child endangerment, child neglect, children left
unattended, underage drinking, the smell of drugs, and anything else that
everyone else can "legally" call the police about. THEY CAN NOT DO A LOT
ABOUT ANYONE THEY "JUST DON'T LIKE". Other than wage a covert war to
make life miserable until the people move out.

Which is what they usually do, and it really does turn into a war. If
the feds get involved, it's usually their side that wins. So, if someone
is stupid enough to violate federal statutes and start a war, they should
just as well go out and play football in a field full of cactuses.
Writing bylaws that describe and outline "that type of people" are
digging a hole from the get go.

Steve




Ho-hum.
You bring up vehicles, property maintenance, and other non-issues. You
apparently don't have children or grandchildren, so you can't emphasize
with people that do.
Besides, why are you responding to my post? Didn't you killfile me over
the 'star drill' thread we had 2 years ago, when you admonished others to
not respond to my "troll" messages? Please killfile me again. Thank you.

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

TYVM. I shall. I got a new computer and lost that plonk list. I have
three children. One is an interpreter in the Arkansas Justice System. One
is a sergeant in homeland security, I cannot say which city. Babysat Joe
Biden recently. One just finished his masters in industrial psychology, but
still doesn't know what he wants to be when he grows up. I have five
grandchildren I know of. Two are with us this week while their two LEO
parents work the hectic New Year's in a city of over 1.5 million.

Please see my last post where I say it is the child that will suffer most.
And I commend your memory. Boy, have you been holding that inside for two
years? That must hurt. I don't even remember what you're talking about.
You should learn to let go.

Wish I could say it's been nice talking to you.

Warm Regards,

Steve

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:

We do reserve studies for HOAs in the State of Nevada. We have done
over 700 now. Our largest was 1200 acres.

Believe me, we've seen it all.

There may not, and there may never ever be a problem with this six
year old. She may become the darling of a bunch of people lonely for
their own grandchildren. She could possibly "adopt" a lot of new
grandparents, and have a happy full loving life there.

There are two problems. One is there is a precedent set, where the
next ones say, "Well, you let that one in, why not mine?"

There's too much worship of precedent. In the case you proposed, the
answer should be: "Because we liked the other kid and we don't like
yours." Or simply give no reason at all.

Years ago, Peter Lawford and his wife Patricia Kennedy tried to buy an
apartment in New York. They were refused. When pressed for a reason, the
housing committee said: "Because he's an actor and she's a Democrat. We
don't want either in our building."

If that happened tomorrow to living people, how do you think that would
shake out?

Steve

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child
into your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents
could continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with
a juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?


Yes, I read the article. And what don't you understand that if the
grandparents do not move out of this development and are still violating
the law, the judge could put the child into foster car.
Let me ask you a question. Do you stop for a red light? Do you pay
taxes? Why? IT'S THE LAW AND IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D BE IN VIOLATION AND
SUBJECT TO ALL THE PENALTIES SPECIFIED.
Let the grandparents move out of there and the problem is solved.


My overarching point here is that placing the child in foster care is a
crap shoot, especially in states like Florida which have had serious
problems with their social services agencies. Which would cause the
greater harm to society? Putting the kid in a home where she's abused, or
a judge telling the HOA that they need to chill for as long as it takes
for the grandparents' home to sell?

They've already had six years. Do you think they'd make an honest attempt
to sell if not forced to?


Maybe, maybe not. A lot of houses don't sell for no good reason, even if the
price is just right.

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:03:43 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
"[FLORIDA] Kimberly, a 6-year-old in the custody of her grandparents,
is facing eviction by local law enforcement because her grandparents
live in a retirement community. The child has lived in the house her
whole life, as her mother is unable to care for her due to
unspecified drug problems. Now authorities plan to remove the girl
from the only home she's ever known and place her in foster care with
strangers due to a homeowners association policy."

I agree. 'God's Waiting Room' (Florida) is no place for a child!

http://www.inquisitr.com/43825/flori...ict-6-year-old

I didn't expect such a long thread with such emphatic advocates on all sides
of the issue.

Still, the topic generated some thoughtful analysis, so it wasn't a total
waste of time. Amazingly everybody's in agreement that HOAs are the spawn of
Satan and those who sit on HOA boards should be cremated and the ashes
scattered.

Take no chances.


Not a waste of time. HOA's can be compared to Carpetbaggers, after
the War of Northern Aggression.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
m...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
Hell Toupee wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I guess you're right. It would be the best thing for society at large
if the little girl was dumped into Florida's "system".
Too bad her grandparents put their comfort first, isn't it? They made a
choice, reinforced over years, to put their granddaughter's future at
risk. She pays the penalty for having lousy parents and grandparents.

Knowing several foster parents, there's a good chance she could end up
being raised by more responsible adults. You know - the kind who put
the child's interests ahead of their own. Unlike granny and gramps in
this story.
Kinda helps explain why the mother has been a junkie for six years, in
spite of her kid being in danger of going into foster care system.

Are you saying it's the grandparents' fault that their daughter has a
drug problem?
I have no way of knowing, but often it isn't surprising.

Science says otherwise, but never mind.


Addiction isn't exact science....lots of nurture involved. I'm not
being judgemental, just looking at the stated history of the situation.

Strike 1: daughter has apparent long-term drug problem.
Strike 2: No father of the child mentioned
Strike 3: Grandparents are...ingnorant?...believe rules don't apply to
them? (They aren't actually rules, it is LAW).

Yeh, lots of good parents have kids with serious problems, but addiction
and alcoholism have a great deal to do with childhood abuse and neglect.
There is also familial tendency. The fact that the child has apparently
been in custody of grandparents all of her life points to severity of
family problems.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

No one said to put the child in foster care.
That is one of the options mentioned in the news.

An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department and
abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child into
your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents could
continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with a
juvenile father in his home.

The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the fact
that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What don't
YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

Yes, I read the article. And what don't you understand that if the
grandparents do not move out of this development and are still violating
the law, the judge could put the child into foster car.
Let me ask you a question. Do you stop for a red light? Do you pay taxes?
Why? IT'S THE LAW AND IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D BE IN VIOLATION AND SUBJECT TO
ALL THE PENALTIES SPECIFIED.
Let the grandparents move out of there and the problem is solved.


My overarching point here is that placing the child in foster care is a crap
shoot, especially in states like Florida which have had serious problems
with their social services agencies. Which would cause the greater harm to
society? Putting the kid in a home where she's abused, or a judge telling
the HOA that they need to chill for as long as it takes for the
grandparents' home to sell?


Hindsight....if the HOA had a clause in it's bylaws that residents with
legal custody of grandchildren could be excepted, the kid could stay, it
would be an infrequent situation, and would probably not be discriminatory.

HeyBub wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
"[FLORIDA] Kimberly, a 6-year-old in the custody of her grandparents,
is facing eviction by local law enforcement because her grandparents
live in a retirement community. The child has lived in the house her
whole life, as her mother is unable to care for her due to
unspecified drug problems. Now authorities plan to remove the girl
from the only home she's ever known and place her in foster care with
strangers due to a homeowners association policy."

I agree. 'God's Waiting Room' (Florida) is no place for a child!

http://www.inquisitr.com/43825/flori...ict-6-year-old

I didn't expect such a long thread with such emphatic advocates on all sides
of the issue.

Still, the topic generated some thoughtful analysis, so it wasn't a total
waste of time. Amazingly everybody's in agreement that HOAs are the spawn of
Satan and those who sit on HOA boards should be cremated and the ashes
scattered.

Take no chances.



They're kind of like guns...it isn't guns that kill people, it is
people. HOAs are lovely without the people running them or violating
the by-laws.

Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire
department and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like
the rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so
worried about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and
take the child into your home. That would solve all the problems.
The grandparents could continue to live in an adult home and the
child could live with a juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change
the fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster
care. What don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?


Yes, I read the article. And what don't you understand that if the
grandparents do not move out of this development and are still
violating the law, the judge could put the child into foster car.
Let me ask you a question. Do you stop for a red light? Do you pay
taxes? Why? IT'S THE LAW AND IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D BE IN VIOLATION
AND SUBJECT TO ALL THE PENALTIES SPECIFIED.
Let the grandparents move out of there and the problem is solved.

IT"S NOT THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
You don't understand the difference between the 'LAW" and 'rules'.
Federal and State laws supersede rules, especially when it comes to
discrimination.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

And an Adult community is approved by Federal and State laws. The
docs concerning children in a adult community are in accordance with
Federal and State laws so don't tell me there's a difference between
law and rules.


The question is, did they move into the community with a child (a
violation of the rules), or did they become unavoidably burdened with a
family member under the age of 55 after they moved in?
It seems like there is an abundance of single, impotent, or just
crotchety people in here.
I


Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

willshak wrote:
Sanity wrote the following:


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried
about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the
child into your home. That would solve all the problems. The
grandparents could continue to live in an adult home and the child
could live with a juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?


Yes, I read the article. And what don't you understand that if the
grandparents do not move out of this development and are still
violating the law, the judge could put the child into foster car.
Let me ask you a question. Do you stop for a red light? Do you pay
taxes? Why? IT'S THE LAW AND IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D BE IN VIOLATION AND
SUBJECT TO ALL THE PENALTIES SPECIFIED.
Let the grandparents move out of there and the problem is solved.

IT"S NOT THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
You don't understand the difference between the 'LAW" and 'rules'.
Federal and State laws supersede rules, especially when it comes to
discrimination.


In Florida, condo and HOA documents have the weight of law, after, of
course,fed., state, county, city, as long as there is not a conflict.

"willshak" wrote in message
...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child
into your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents
could continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with
a juvenile father in his home.


The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?


Yes, I read the article. And what don't you understand that if the
grandparents do not move out of this development and are still
violating the law, the judge could put the child into foster car.
Let me ask you a question. Do you stop for a red light? Do you pay
taxes? Why? IT'S THE LAW AND IF YOU DIDN'T YOU'D BE IN VIOLATION AND
SUBJECT TO ALL THE PENALTIES SPECIFIED.
Let the grandparents move out of there and the problem is solved.

IT"S NOT THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
You don't understand the difference between the 'LAW" and 'rules'.
Federal and State laws supersede rules, especially when it comes to
discrimination.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

And an Adult community is approved by Federal and State laws. The docs
concerning children in a adult community are in accordance with Federal
and State laws so don't tell me there's a difference between law and
rules.


The question is, did they move into the community with a child (a
violation of the rules), or did they become unavoidably burdened with a
family member under the age of 55 after they moved in?
It seems like there is an abundance of single, impotent, or just crotchety
people in here.
I


Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

The Federal or State law do not differentiate. It states "No one under 21
can be a permanent resident."

Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire
department and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried
about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the
child into your home. That would solve all the problems. The
grandparents could continue to live in an adult home and the child
could live with a juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care.
What don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose
that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale and
moved to a neighborhood with many children so that my grandchild could
have friend her/his age. I have always obeyed the laws and have never
done anything to harm friends or neighbors. Why should I put their
rights in jeopardy. Of course people like you don't give a damn about
anyone else but themselves so you wouldn't know about that.

Yep, I don't give a damn. I spent 44 years of my life serving my
country, my state, and my town, while you were sitting back enjoying
the safety that I, and my other valient countrymen, were providing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child
into your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents
could continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with
a juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose
that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale and
moved to a neighborhood with many children so that my grandchild could
have friend her/his age. I have always obeyed the laws and have never
done anything to harm friends or neighbors. Why should I put their
rights in jeopardy. Of course people like you don't give a damn about
anyone else but themselves so you wouldn't know about that.

Yep, I don't give a damn. I spent 44 years of my life serving my country,
my state, and my town, while you were sitting back enjoying the safety
that I, and my other valient countrymen, were providing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Now you hit a sore spot you asshole. You served? I fought in World War 2
and the Korean conflict. I have 2 Purple Hearts and many commendations. How
much of your flesh and bone have you given to this country? Where were you
on D-Day? I know where I was. While I was doing this, you were a ****ant
and still are. Don't tell me you served your country yet you would disregard
the laws of the land. I can see why you were kill filed. Your family doctor
must be a proctologist and I hope he's the best because you need him.

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried about
the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the child
into your home. That would solve all the problems. The grandparents
could continue to live in an adult home and the child could live with
a juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose
that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale and
moved to a neighborhood with many children so that my grandchild could
have friend her/his age. I have always obeyed the laws and have never
done anything to harm friends or neighbors. Why should I put their
rights in jeopardy. Of course people like you don't give a damn about
anyone else but themselves so you wouldn't know about that.

Yep, I don't give a damn. I spent 44 years of my life serving my country,
my state, and my town, while you were sitting back enjoying the safety
that I, and my other valient countrymen, were providing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Now you hit a sore spot you asshole. You served? I fought in World War 2
and the Korean conflict. I have 2 Purple Hearts and many commendations.
How much of your flesh and bone have you given to this country? Where were
you on D-Day? I know where I was. While I was doing this, you were a
****ant and still are. Don't tell me you served your country yet you would
disregard the laws of the land. I can see why you were kill filed. Your
family doctor must be a proctologist and I hope he's the best because you
need him.


Nice to know that you NEVER exceed the speed limit, not even by 1 mph. :-)