On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:41:26 -0500, willshak
wrote:

wrote the following:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:37:17 -0500, willshak
wrote:


wrote the following:

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:06:45 -0500, mm
wrote:



On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:17:53 -0600, Hell Toupee
wrote:



HeyBub wrote:


"[FLORIDA] Kimberly, a 6-year-old in the custody of her grandparents, is
facing eviction by local law enforcement because her grandparents live in a
retirement community. The child has lived in the house her whole life, as
her mother is unable to care for her due to unspecified drug problems. Now
authorities plan to remove the girl from the only home she's ever known and
place her in foster care with strangers due to a homeowners association
policy."

I agree. 'God's Waiting Room' (Florida) is no place for a child!

http://www.inquisitr.com/43825/flori...ct-6-year-old/


Florida chose to develop itself via planned communities and HOAs, in
order to shift most of the costs of infrastructure development
initially onto the developer who builds the community, then assumed by
the homeowners who take on the debt not only for the home they buy,
but for the development's costs, too. That's the primary purpose of
the HOA - to collect funds for the debt payments and to keep their
community maintained. Making up additional rules is what they get to
do to make their community more appealing for those who believe rules
are for everyone else. If the citizens of that state keep bitching
about their big bad HOAs, they should vote to implement an income tax
on themselves, so the state will be able to fund infrastructure,
instead of forcing developers and homeowners to assume the debt via
homeowner's associations.


That's hardly the only remedy to this situation. The legistlature
could also ban HOAs from excluding chidren.

This wouldn't require any change in taxes.



It would require a HUGE change in taxes. Over half the annual budget
for any community with children goes for schools.


Whether or not you have childrenin school, or did have them at one time,
moving into a senior housing community does not exempt you from statel
school taxes, at least, not here in NYS. I'm 72, and the youngest of my
children is 30 years old. I still pay state school taxes. Are senior
citizens exempt from state school taxes in your state?




We are not talking about state school taxes. We are talking about
Florida Senior Citizen communities which operate under a legal status
that has strict requirements in exchange for tax abatements. One of
the requirements is that they not have any children. The reason is
that children require more services. Florida is one big retirement tax
haven.



Read the message I was quoting, especially this part:

"It would require a HUGE change in taxes. Over half the annual budget
for any community with children goes for _schools_."


Note the word 'schools' in the last sentence. That is what I was responding to or, if you're a pedant with English usage,
That is to which I was responding.

You are very confused.

Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
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...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
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...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire
department and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like
the rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so
worried about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and
take the child into your home. That would solve all the
problems. The grandparents could continue to live in an adult
home and the child could live with a juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change
the fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster
care. What don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't
oppose that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale and
moved to a neighborhood with many children so that my grandchild
could have friend her/his age. I have always obeyed the laws and
have never done anything to harm friends or neighbors. Why should
I put their rights in jeopardy. Of course people like you don't give
a damn about anyone else but themselves so you wouldn't know about
that.

Yep, I don't give a damn. I spent 44 years of my life serving my
country, my state, and my town, while you were sitting back enjoying
the safety that I, and my other valient countrymen, were providing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Now you hit a sore spot you asshole. You served? I fought in World
War 2 and the Korean conflict. I have 2 Purple Hearts and many
commendations. How much of your flesh and bone have you given to this
country? Where were you on D-Day? I know where I was. While I was
doing this, you were a ****ant and still are. Don't tell me you served
your country yet you would disregard the laws of the land. I can see
why you were kill filed. Your family doctor must be a proctologist and
I hope he's the best because you need him.
I can only say that you are my hero and I mean that. If I had known who
I was talking to, I would never had replied
I wish I could have been there with you, but I was only 7 when WWII
ended, and I was still in HS during the Korean War.
5 Days out of High School (1955) I joined the Navy. Luckily, I served
between wars.
Please accept my apologies.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried
about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the
child into your home. That would solve all the problems. The
grandparents could continue to live in an adult home and the child
could live with a juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose
that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale and
moved to a neighborhood with many children so that my grandchild could
have friend her/his age. I have always obeyed the laws and have never
done anything to harm friends or neighbors. Why should I put their
rights in jeopardy. Of course people like you don't give a damn about
anyone else but themselves so you wouldn't know about that.

Yep, I don't give a damn. I spent 44 years of my life serving my
country, my state, and my town, while you were sitting back enjoying
the safety that I, and my other valient countrymen, were providing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Now you hit a sore spot you asshole. You served? I fought in World War 2
and the Korean conflict. I have 2 Purple Hearts and many commendations.
How much of your flesh and bone have you given to this country? Where
were you on D-Day? I know where I was. While I was doing this, you were
a ****ant and still are. Don't tell me you served your country yet you
would disregard the laws of the land. I can see why you were kill filed.
Your family doctor must be a proctologist and I hope he's the best
because you need him.


Nice to know that you NEVER exceed the speed limit, not even by 1 mph. :-)


Very funny.

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire department
and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried
about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the
child into your home. That would solve all the problems. The
grandparents could continue to live in an adult home and the child
could live with a juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care. What
don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose
that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale and
moved to a neighborhood with many children so that my grandchild could
have friend her/his age. I have always obeyed the laws and have never
done anything to harm friends or neighbors. Why should I put their
rights in jeopardy. Of course people like you don't give a damn about
anyone else but themselves so you wouldn't know about that.

Yep, I don't give a damn. I spent 44 years of my life serving my
country, my state, and my town, while you were sitting back enjoying
the safety that I, and my other valient countrymen, were providing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Now you hit a sore spot you asshole. You served? I fought in World War 2
and the Korean conflict. I have 2 Purple Hearts and many commendations.
How much of your flesh and bone have you given to this country? Where
were you on D-Day? I know where I was. While I was doing this, you were
a ****ant and still are. Don't tell me you served your country yet you
would disregard the laws of the land. I can see why you were kill filed.
Your family doctor must be a proctologist and I hope he's the best
because you need him.
I can only say that you are my hero and I mean that. If I had known who I
was talking to, I would never had replied
I wish I could have been there with you, but I was only 7 when WWII ended,
and I was still in HS during the Korean War.
5 Days out of High School (1955) I joined the Navy. Luckily, I served
between wars.
Please accept my apologies.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Apologies not required. Where did you go to boot camp and where did you
serve?

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire
department and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like the
rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so worried
about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and take the
child into your home. That would solve all the problems. The
grandparents could continue to live in an adult home and the child
could live with a juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change the
fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster care.
What don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't oppose
that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale and
moved to a neighborhood with many children so that my grandchild could
have friend her/his age. I have always obeyed the laws and have never
done anything to harm friends or neighbors. Why should I put their
rights in jeopardy. Of course people like you don't give a damn about
anyone else but themselves so you wouldn't know about that.

Yep, I don't give a damn. I spent 44 years of my life serving my
country, my state, and my town, while you were sitting back enjoying
the safety that I, and my other valient countrymen, were providing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Now you hit a sore spot you asshole. You served? I fought in World War
2 and the Korean conflict. I have 2 Purple Hearts and many
commendations. How much of your flesh and bone have you given to this
country? Where were you on D-Day? I know where I was. While I was doing
this, you were a ****ant and still are. Don't tell me you served your
country yet you would disregard the laws of the land. I can see why you
were kill filed. Your family doctor must be a proctologist and I hope
he's the best because you need him.


Nice to know that you NEVER exceed the speed limit, not even by 1 mph.
:-)


Very funny.


A 6 year old girl is a much bigger threat than exceeding the speed limit.

We should agree on a sarcasm symbol, in case it's not obvious enough at
times.

On Dec 30, 1:17*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

Educating a child should not be a welfare payment. *If you make the decision
to have a child, then you need to provide the funds for properly raising
that child, including medical care, food, housing, and yes, education.

You breed 'em, you feed 'em.

Jon

{out of usual lurk mode} These statements demonstrate that the family
in question and the OP are worlds apart, even in the US.

Most kids put in this situation are not "decisions to have a child" in
the first place. Accidents happen, prostitution for drugs happens,
irresponsible use of contraception happens.

With that premise in mind, having funds to raise the child is not even
a consideration. Adoption is not usually considered because of loss
of medicaid when parental rights are signed over. Having the
estimated tens of thousands of dollars it takes to raise a child to
the age of 18 does not ever enter into the equation. That money comes
from John and Jane Taxpayer.

They can breed 'em. Almost like rabbits, I sometimes think. That is
their constitutional and inalienable right, and none of us can even
Try to take that away from "them". You and I feed 'em and care for
them, through WIC, ADC, Medicaid, etc etc.

Grandma and Grandpa may have aged into middle class and brought
granddaughter into it by default of Mother's drug habit. I would be
skeptical that Mother is a member of the middle class, and would not
have acquired the sense of responsibility reflected in your post,
above. Totally different worlds.

FWIW, I've taken care of these folks from the obstetric (delivered
them) and gynecologic (contraception and sterilization) perspectives,
and now from the psychiatric (read ADHD, coke kids, drug abuse in kids
and adults, kids on foster care, foster parents thinking they have
guardianship when they do not, narcissistic senses of entitlement, and
people who otherwise want what they want when they want it.) Totally
different world compared to the white collar community in which I was
raised.

Linda H., M.D.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in message
...


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire
department and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like
the rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so
worried about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and
take the child into your home. That would solve all the problems.
The grandparents could continue to live in an adult home and the
child could live with a juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change
the fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster
care. What don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't
oppose that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale and
moved to a neighborhood with many children so that my grandchild
could have friend her/his age. I have always obeyed the laws and have
never done anything to harm friends or neighbors. Why should I put
their rights in jeopardy. Of course people like you don't give a damn
about anyone else but themselves so you wouldn't know about that.

Yep, I don't give a damn. I spent 44 years of my life serving my
country, my state, and my town, while you were sitting back enjoying
the safety that I, and my other valient countrymen, were providing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Now you hit a sore spot you asshole. You served? I fought in World War
2 and the Korean conflict. I have 2 Purple Hearts and many
commendations. How much of your flesh and bone have you given to this
country? Where were you on D-Day? I know where I was. While I was
doing this, you were a ****ant and still are. Don't tell me you served
your country yet you would disregard the laws of the land. I can see
why you were kill filed. Your family doctor must be a proctologist and
I hope he's the best because you need him.


Nice to know that you NEVER exceed the speed limit, not even by 1 mph.
:-)


Very funny.


A 6 year old girl is a much bigger threat than exceeding the speed limit.

We should agree on a sarcasm symbol, in case it's not obvious enough at
times.


I caught it.

Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire
department and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like
the rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so
worried about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor
and take the child into your home. That would solve all the
problems. The grandparents could continue to live in an adult
home and the child could live with a juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change
the fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster
care. What don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't
oppose that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale
and moved to a neighborhood with many children so that my
grandchild could have friend her/his age. I have always obeyed the
laws and have never done anything to harm friends or neighbors.
Why should I put their rights in jeopardy. Of course people like
you don't give a damn about anyone else but themselves so you
wouldn't know about that.

Yep, I don't give a damn. I spent 44 years of my life serving my
country, my state, and my town, while you were sitting back
enjoying the safety that I, and my other valient countrymen, were
providing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Now you hit a sore spot you asshole. You served? I fought in World
War 2 and the Korean conflict. I have 2 Purple Hearts and many
commendations. How much of your flesh and bone have you given to
this country? Where were you on D-Day? I know where I was. While I
was doing this, you were a ****ant and still are. Don't tell me you
served your country yet you would disregard the laws of the land. I
can see why you were kill filed. Your family doctor must be a
proctologist and I hope he's the best because you need him.
I can only say that you are my hero and I mean that. If I had known
who I was talking to, I would never had replied
I wish I could have been there with you, but I was only 7 when WWII
ended, and I was still in HS during the Korean War.
5 Days out of High School (1955) I joined the Navy. Luckily, I served
between wars.
Please accept my apologies.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Apologies not required. Where did you go to boot camp and where did
you serve?


NRTC Bainbridge, MD, 1955.
Class A Metalsmith School, Norfolk, VA
Heavy Cruiser USS Salem CA-139 1956 until my discharge in 1958.
(I was a kiddie cruiser. Enlist at 17 and discharge before 21 YOA)
I would have re-enlisted, but my ship was going out of commission and I
couldn't see serving on another. If nothing, I am loyal..
After that, I served 38 years as a Police Officer, retiring in 1999.
See http://www.willshak.com/salem/index.html

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Sanity" wrote

Look up this statute and learn:

Federal Register 24 CFT Part 100; 760.24-760.37 (4a) - Fla. Statute

Am I reading that correctly, then, that in a part B development, that 20%
can be under the age of 55? That would change a lot.

Steve

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Sanity wrote the following:


"willshak" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote the following:
"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote in message
...


No one said to put the child in foster care.

That is one of the options mentioned in the news.


An option could have been to bring the infant to the fire
department and abandon it but that wasn't done either.
What don't you understand?
They were and are in violation of the rules. If you don't like
the rules, don't move into an adult community. If you're so
worried about the child and the grandparents, do them a favor and
take the child into your home. That would solve all the problems.
The grandparents could continue to live in an adult home and the
child could live with a juvenile father in his home.



The fact that they are in violation of the rules does not change
the fact that a judge may order the kid to be placed in foster
care. What don't YOU understand?

Did you even read the article?

It sounds like that if you were the grandparents, you wouldn't
oppose that order. True?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

If I were the grandparent, I would have put my house up for sale and
moved to a neighborhood with many children so that my grandchild
could have friend her/his age. I have always obeyed the laws and have
never done anything to harm friends or neighbors. Why should I put
their rights in jeopardy. Of course people like you don't give a damn
about anyone else but themselves so you wouldn't know about that.

Yep, I don't give a damn. I spent 44 years of my life serving my
country, my state, and my town, while you were sitting back enjoying
the safety that I, and my other valient countrymen, were providing.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Now you hit a sore spot you asshole. You served? I fought in World War
2 and the Korean conflict. I have 2 Purple Hearts and many
commendations. How much of your flesh and bone have you given to this
country? Where were you on D-Day? I know where I was. While I was
doing this, you were a ****ant and still are. Don't tell me you served
your country yet you would disregard the laws of the land. I can see
why you were kill filed. Your family doctor must be a proctologist and
I hope he's the best because you need him.
I can only say that you are my hero and I mean that. If I had known who
I was talking to, I would never had replied
I wish I could have been there with you, but I was only 7 when WWII
ended, and I was still in HS during the Korean War.
5 Days out of High School (1955) I joined the Navy. Luckily, I served
between wars.
Please accept my apologies.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Apologies not required. Where did you go to boot camp and where did you
serve?


NRTC Bainbridge, MD, 1955.
Class A Metalsmith School, Norfolk, VA
Heavy Cruiser USS Salem CA-139 1956 until my discharge in 1958.
(I was a kiddie cruiser. Enlist at 17 and discharge before 21 YOA)
I would have re-enlisted, but my ship was going out of commission and I
couldn't see serving on another. If nothing, I am loyal..
After that, I served 38 years as a Police Officer, retiring in 1999.
See http://www.willshak.com/salem/index.html

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

When I was recalled for the Korean conflicit I thought I would stay in for
the 20. I switched to the Navy as a Chief. I probably walked right past you
many times. I was a drill instructor for a year, went up to Argentia, NFLD
on an Admirals staff (Airborne Early Warning) then served about the
Rockbridge (APA 228). Old wounds started acting up and I was separated
in 1959. If you hitch hiked on US40 (Port Deposit) I possibly gave you a
ride to NY.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Sanity" wrote

Look up this statute and learn:

Federal Register 24 CFT Part 100; 760.24-760.37 (4a) - Fla. Statute

Am I reading that correctly, then, that in a part B development, that 20%
can be under the age of 55? That would change a lot.

Steve


Yes but if you go into the fine print of the details there is still no
permitting of under 21's allowed.
When I lived in Florida I lived in a small HOA of 33 homes. 6.6 homes
were available for under 55. Anyway, the builder sold 7 units to under 55
and there was a possible problem there. Luckily one of those buyers backed
out for financial reasons and the problem never came to hurt us as we would
have lost our adult community status.

Steve B wrote:
Must be some fabulous grandparents living in that retirement
community if they can't stand the sight of a 6 year old child. What
assholes.

We live our lives, grow up, grow old, raise our children, kick them
out of the nests if we are good parents, and they fly off on their
own. For some, they get stuck raising their grandkids, by whatever
reasons.
Assholes who reach grandparenthood want to take their money and live
in a place where someone else mows the grass, paints the houses,
fixes the roof, and does all that stuff. They can sleep until 10AM
because there aren't a bunch of screaming kids running around outside
their doors. Digging holes, leaving "stuff" all over, and getting
into their "stuff". They pay good money for that quiet. Kids aren't
allowed. And then these kids turn into teenagers, and all that
brings with it, even if they are well behaved teenagers.

Do you also insist that it takes an asshole who won't let you take
your 8 year old son into a drinking establishment?

It's an unfortunate situation, but not one where all these residents
should be forced to alter their lifestyles because one family's
situation has soured. They signed legal papers saying so, even the
grandparents of the child. It's time for them to relocate the child,
or move out.
I would never buy into a HOA. I shouldn't say never, because one
never knows. But if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't want screaming
kids and rude teen agers to deal with again. BTDT, did my time,
raised my kids, they're through college now, and on to careers. But
if something did happen to any of my children, and I had to help
raise the grandkids, hell yes, I'd do it. But I wouldn't put it on
the backs of a bunch of other people and make it THEIR problem. I'd
move out to a house where they could live more comfortably.

Does that make me an asshole?

Steve

It's your reasoning and words that make you an asshole, Steve.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"K" wrote in message
...


Steve B wrote:
Must be some fabulous grandparents living in that retirement
community if they can't stand the sight of a 6 year old child. What
assholes.

We live our lives, grow up, grow old, raise our children, kick them
out of the nests if we are good parents, and they fly off on their
own. For some, they get stuck raising their grandkids, by whatever
reasons.
Assholes who reach grandparenthood want to take their money and live
in a place where someone else mows the grass, paints the houses,
fixes the roof, and does all that stuff. They can sleep until 10AM
because there aren't a bunch of screaming kids running around outside
their doors. Digging holes, leaving "stuff" all over, and getting
into their "stuff". They pay good money for that quiet. Kids aren't
allowed. And then these kids turn into teenagers, and all that
brings with it, even if they are well behaved teenagers.

Do you also insist that it takes an asshole who won't let you take
your 8 year old son into a drinking establishment?

It's an unfortunate situation, but not one where all these residents
should be forced to alter their lifestyles because one family's
situation has soured. They signed legal papers saying so, even the
grandparents of the child. It's time for them to relocate the child,
or move out.
I would never buy into a HOA. I shouldn't say never, because one
never knows. But if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't want screaming
kids and rude teen agers to deal with again. BTDT, did my time,
raised my kids, they're through college now, and on to careers. But
if something did happen to any of my children, and I had to help
raise the grandkids, hell yes, I'd do it. But I wouldn't put it on
the backs of a bunch of other people and make it THEIR problem. I'd
move out to a house where they could live more comfortably.

Does that make me an asshole?

Steve

It's your reasoning and words that make you an asshole, Steve.

If you would like to discuss anything particular, please feel free to pick a
lamp post and discuss away.

Steve

willshak wrote:
Ken wrote the following:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Steve wrote in message
...

Must be some fabulous grandparents living in that retirement
community
if
they can't stand the sight of a 6 year old child. What assholes.

We live our lives, grow up, grow old, raise our children, kick them
out of
the nests if we are good parents, and they fly off on their own. For
some, they get stuck raising their grandkids, by whatever reasons.

Assholes who reach grandparenthood want to take their money and live
in a
place where someone else mows the grass, paints the houses, fixes the
roof, and does all that stuff. They can sleep until 10AM because there
aren't a bunch of screaming kids running around outside their doors.
Digging holes, leaving "stuff" all over, and getting into their
"stuff".
They pay good money for that quiet. Kids aren't allowed. And then these
kids turn into teenagers, and all that brings with it, even if they are
well behaved teenagers.

Do you also insist that it takes an asshole who won't let you take
your 8
year old son into a drinking establishment?

It's an unfortunate situation, but not one where all these residents
should be forced to alter their lifestyles because one family's
situation
has soured. They signed legal papers saying so, even the
grandparents of
the child. It's time for them to relocate the child, or move out.

I would never buy into a HOA. I shouldn't say never, because one never
knows. But if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't want screaming kids and
rude
teen agers to deal with again. BTDT, did my time, raised my kids,
they're
through college now, and on to careers. But if something did happen to
any of my children, and I had to help raise the grandkids, hell yes,
I'd
do it. But I wouldn't put it on the backs of a bunch of other people
and
make it THEIR problem. I'd move out to a house where they could live
more
comfortably.

Does that make me an asshole?

Steve



This still leaves an important question: What is the REAL problem (if
any)
with the kid? Is it some aimless old person who peeks through his or her
curtains all day long LOOKING for problems which don't exist? Surely,
you're
aware of such people. And I know your name's not Shirley.



It really doesn't matter if there is anything wrong with the kid or
not. I live in a community that has a Bill of Assurance and a HOA.
There are rules such as "No trailers can be parked on the homeowners
property or street." If someone buys a travel trailer for summer
travel, they need to rent a space off the community in which to store
it. There are other rules as well, and violations are not weighed
based upon whether the trailer looks "Neat," and so on. If a person
visits for a couple of night via a trailer, no one will complain. If
it becomes a permanent fixture however, it must be removed.

Does your HOA rules say that a certain type of person cannot live in the
community?
We are not talking about vehicles, or how your property is kept, we are
talking about HUMAN BEINGS.
Maybe your HOA does not like your kind and wants to evict you? Then what
will be your rssponse?



I am sorry you found my reply so confusing. I was trying to make the
point that HOA's can establish rules, and that if the buyer buys into
the area, they should expect to follow those rules. There are laws
prohibiting drug sales of illegal drugs. Those sales are almost always
done by human beings. Are those laws discriminating against human
beings??? You really need to get a life.

On Dec 30, 12:48*pm, "
wrote:
letting pets run loose, trashing former residence, etc. *There are very
good reasons for people to live in seniors-only homes - one is that
people who have never had kids don't want them around. *Understandable
and a good choice for some people. *The hoodlum element also prey on
elderly, which is an issue I have only recently begun to contemplate.

In the traditionionally styled "bedroom communities",
it is well known that there is a cyclical pattern to burglaries,
other home invasions. The young ones get to their teen years,
are bored or looking for different "family figures", and get into
the "gansta" stuff. Then they get old enough to get away from
home, and they mature and settle down, or they take their
behaviour elsewhere, generally to an area that allows rental.

Eliminate the presence of the kids, and considerably reduce
the crime rate in an area. Forbid rentals, and reduce it again.

"Ken" wrote in message
...

There are laws prohibiting drug sales of illegal drugs. Those sales are
almost always done by human beings.

¿¿¿¿

"almost always"

Other than human beings, who else sells illegal drugs? Is that what the
deer are doing in my yard all night?

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Ken" wrote in message
...

There are laws prohibiting drug sales of illegal drugs. Those sales are
almost always done by human beings.

¿¿¿¿

"almost always"

Other than human beings, who else sells illegal drugs? Is that what the
deer are doing in my yard all night?


They're using vending machines now. Even though the machine says "Coca
Cola", they're selling coke in a can now.

Mr. Salty

Ignorance is down fall in any society, however so is no responsibility!

In these country at present time and have been for long time, there is
people

out there they make babies like rabbets, cats or misses and this arrogant
SOBs

are proud of it, they do not care who is going to feed them, educate them or

keep them healthy because they know that are having bleeding harts that

will be taking care of, by your and my taxes "do you think that's fairy".

They are women out there with 6 to 12 kids with no known fathers,

The parents that go on drugs and alcohol put them to work hard labor

As it was done many years ago,"Inhumane my foot", let them work instead put

them in luxury jails with TVs exercise machines ETC.

But mentalities of our government and Supreme Court dummies don't see it
that

way. So the tax payer of this country including those on social security

that barely or hardly covers their living expenses paying for it. Please
don't even

mention medications that most of seniors had to cope with averaging around

$3000.00 per year. Now after 50 for me 55 years of full time work, me and
seniors

should be expect some one going to come and tell me that I got to feed and
bring up

this bustards Sorry I am fred not, that is reason for rules at senior living
communities.

I do not have anything against the children but parents of these children
should

be executed then I will say lets contribute and bring up these kids right
way.

I came from Europe as USA citizen with 6 grade of elementary schooling,

I have two kids grown up and educated no one have contribute single penny

for they education Federal or State all money came from my hard work

and they part time work so I do not need hear about ignorance.

Presently we are giving education in how many forging languages none was

giving to me in forging or English if they want to learn let them learn hard

way as I have and lot others did. In my town we can reduce taxes by 30%

if only English was taught.

I know that I am little of the subject but like audience know where

I am coming from, it is necessary that we all need to take in

Consideration all facts and not bear header of the page.


wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 10:28:46 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

wrote:


It would require a HUGE change in taxes. Over half the annual budget
for any community with children goes for schools.

Which should be exempted from individuals who do not have children.

You breed 'em, you feed 'em.

Jon


Very short-sighted view of things. You get many benefits both tangible
and intangible from educating those children.

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

I'm curious: What is your first language? Spanish?




"Grunpy" wrote in message
...
Mr. Salty

Ignorance is down fall in any society, however so is no responsibility!

In these country at present time and have been for long time, there is
people

out there they make babies like rabbets, cats or misses and this arrogant
SOBs

are proud of it, they do not care who is going to feed them, educate them
or

keep them healthy because they know that are having bleeding harts that

will be taking care of, by your and my taxes "do you think that's fairy".

They are women out there with 6 to 12 kids with no known fathers,

The parents that go on drugs and alcohol put them to work hard labor

As it was done many years ago,"Inhumane my foot", let them work instead
put

them in luxury jails with TVs exercise machines ETC.

But mentalities of our government and Supreme Court dummies don't see it
that

way. So the tax payer of this country including those on social security

that barely or hardly covers their living expenses paying for it. Please
don't even

mention medications that most of seniors had to cope with averaging around

$3000.00 per year. Now after 50 for me 55 years of full time work, me and
seniors

should be expect some one going to come and tell me that I got to feed and
bring up

this bustards Sorry I am fred not, that is reason for rules at senior
living
communities.

I do not have anything against the children but parents of these children
should

be executed then I will say lets contribute and bring up these kids right
way.

I came from Europe as USA citizen with 6 grade of elementary schooling,

I have two kids grown up and educated no one have contribute single penny

for they education Federal or State all money came from my hard work

and they part time work so I do not need hear about ignorance.

Presently we are giving education in how many forging languages none was

giving to me in forging or English if they want to learn let them learn
hard

way as I have and lot others did. In my town we can reduce taxes by 30%

if only English was taught.

I know that I am little of the subject but like audience know where

I am coming from, it is necessary that we all need to take in

Consideration all facts and not bear header of the page.


wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 10:28:46 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

wrote:


It would require a HUGE change in taxes. Over half the annual budget
for any community with children goes for schools.

Which should be exempted from individuals who do not have children.

You breed 'em, you feed 'em.

Jon


Very short-sighted view of things. You get many benefits both tangible
and intangible from educating those children.

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

Croatian

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
I'm curious: What is your first language? Spanish?




"Grunpy" wrote in message
...
Mr. Salty

Ignorance is down fall in any society, however so is no responsibility!

In these country at present time and have been for long time, there is
people

out there they make babies like rabbets, cats or misses and this arrogant
SOBs

are proud of it, they do not care who is going to feed them, educate them
or

keep them healthy because they know that are having bleeding harts that

will be taking care of, by your and my taxes "do you think that's fairy".

They are women out there with 6 to 12 kids with no known fathers,

The parents that go on drugs and alcohol put them to work hard labor

As it was done many years ago,"Inhumane my foot", let them work instead
put

them in luxury jails with TVs exercise machines ETC.

But mentalities of our government and Supreme Court dummies don't see it
that

way. So the tax payer of this country including those on social security

that barely or hardly covers their living expenses paying for it. Please
don't even

mention medications that most of seniors had to cope with averaging
around

$3000.00 per year. Now after 50 for me 55 years of full time work, me and
seniors

should be expect some one going to come and tell me that I got to feed
and
bring up

this bustards Sorry I am fred not, that is reason for rules at senior
living
communities.

I do not have anything against the children but parents of these children
should

be executed then I will say lets contribute and bring up these kids right
way.

I came from Europe as USA citizen with 6 grade of elementary schooling,

I have two kids grown up and educated no one have contribute single penny

for they education Federal or State all money came from my hard work

and they part time work so I do not need hear about ignorance.

Presently we are giving education in how many forging languages none was

giving to me in forging or English if they want to learn let them learn
hard

way as I have and lot others did. In my town we can reduce taxes by 30%

if only English was taught.

I know that I am little of the subject but like audience know where

I am coming from, it is necessary that we all need to take in

Consideration all facts and not bear header of the page.


wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 10:28:46 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

wrote:


It would require a HUGE change in taxes. Over half the annual budget
for any community with children goes for schools.

Which should be exempted from individuals who do not have children.

You breed 'em, you feed 'em.

Jon


Very short-sighted view of things. You get many benefits both tangible
and intangible from educating those children.

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:03:43 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
"[FLORIDA] Kimberly, a 6-year-old in the custody of her
grandparents, is facing eviction by local law enforcement because
her grandparents live in a retirement community. The child has
lived in the house her whole life, as her mother is unable to care
for her due to unspecified drug problems. Now authorities plan to
remove the girl from the only home she's ever known and place her
in foster care with strangers due to a homeowners association
policy."

I agree. 'God's Waiting Room' (Florida) is no place for a child!

http://www.inquisitr.com/43825/flori...ict-6-year-old

I didn't expect such a long thread with such emphatic advocates on
all sides of the issue.

Still, the topic generated some thoughtful analysis, so it wasn't a
total waste of time. Amazingly everybody's in agreement that HOAs
are the spawn of Satan and those who sit on HOA boards should be
cremated and the ashes scattered.

Take no chances.


Not a waste of time. HOA's can be compared to Carpetbaggers, after
the War of Northern Aggression.

Depends on how you look at it. I prefer "Our Second War of Independence."
Sometimes "The Recent Unplesantness."

Sretna nova godina!

"Grumpy" wrote in message
...
Croatian

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
I'm curious: What is your first language? Spanish?




"Grunpy" wrote in message
...
Mr. Salty

Ignorance is down fall in any society, however so is no responsibility!

In these country at present time and have been for long time, there is
people

out there they make babies like rabbets, cats or misses and this
arrogant
SOBs

are proud of it, they do not care who is going to feed them, educate
them or

keep them healthy because they know that are having bleeding harts that

will be taking care of, by your and my taxes "do you think that's
fairy".

They are women out there with 6 to 12 kids with no known fathers,

The parents that go on drugs and alcohol put them to work hard labor

As it was done many years ago,"Inhumane my foot", let them work instead
put

them in luxury jails with TVs exercise machines ETC.

But mentalities of our government and Supreme Court dummies don't see it
that

way. So the tax payer of this country including those on social security

that barely or hardly covers their living expenses paying for it. Please
don't even

mention medications that most of seniors had to cope with averaging
around

$3000.00 per year. Now after 50 for me 55 years of full time work, me
and
seniors

should be expect some one going to come and tell me that I got to feed
and
bring up

this bustards Sorry I am fred not, that is reason for rules at senior
living
communities.

I do not have anything against the children but parents of these
children
should

be executed then I will say lets contribute and bring up these kids
right
way.

I came from Europe as USA citizen with 6 grade of elementary schooling,

I have two kids grown up and educated no one have contribute single
penny

for they education Federal or State all money came from my hard work

and they part time work so I do not need hear about ignorance.

Presently we are giving education in how many forging languages none was

giving to me in forging or English if they want to learn let them learn
hard

way as I have and lot others did. In my town we can reduce taxes by 30%

if only English was taught.

I know that I am little of the subject but like audience know where

I am coming from, it is necessary that we all need to take in

Consideration all facts and not bear header of the page.


wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 10:28:46 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

wrote:


It would require a HUGE change in taxes. Over half the annual budget
for any community with children goes for schools.

Which should be exempted from individuals who do not have children.

You breed 'em, you feed 'em.

Jon


Very short-sighted view of things. You get many benefits both tangible
and intangible from educating those children.

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.










Sretna nova godina!

On 12/30/2009 12:28 PM, Sanity wrote:
if you make an exception for one person, you have to do it for everyone.

The problem with that argument is not everybody asks for an exception.
Very few will.

Bob

Tako i vama sve najbolje

"Sanity" wrote in message
...
Sretna nova godina!

"Grumpy" wrote in message
...
Croatian

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
I'm curious: What is your first language? Spanish?




"Grunpy" wrote in message
...
Mr. Salty

Ignorance is down fall in any society, however so is no responsibility!

In these country at present time and have been for long time, there is
people

out there they make babies like rabbets, cats or misses and this
arrogant
SOBs

are proud of it, they do not care who is going to feed them, educate
them or

keep them healthy because they know that are having bleeding harts that

will be taking care of, by your and my taxes "do you think that's
fairy".

They are women out there with 6 to 12 kids with no known fathers,

The parents that go on drugs and alcohol put them to work hard labor

As it was done many years ago,"Inhumane my foot", let them work instead
put

them in luxury jails with TVs exercise machines ETC.

But mentalities of our government and Supreme Court dummies don't see
it
that

way. So the tax payer of this country including those on social
security

that barely or hardly covers their living expenses paying for it.
Please
don't even

mention medications that most of seniors had to cope with averaging
around

$3000.00 per year. Now after 50 for me 55 years of full time work, me
and
seniors

should be expect some one going to come and tell me that I got to feed
and
bring up

this bustards Sorry I am fred not, that is reason for rules at senior
living
communities.

I do not have anything against the children but parents of these
children
should

be executed then I will say lets contribute and bring up these kids
right
way.

I came from Europe as USA citizen with 6 grade of elementary schooling,

I have two kids grown up and educated no one have contribute single
penny

for they education Federal or State all money came from my hard work

and they part time work so I do not need hear about ignorance.

Presently we are giving education in how many forging languages none
was

giving to me in forging or English if they want to learn let them learn
hard

way as I have and lot others did. In my town we can reduce taxes by 30%

if only English was taught.

I know that I am little of the subject but like audience know where

I am coming from, it is necessary that we all need to take in

Consideration all facts and not bear header of the page.


wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 10:28:46 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

wrote:


It would require a HUGE change in taxes. Over half the annual budget
for any community with children goes for schools.

Which should be exempted from individuals who do not have children.

You breed 'em, you feed 'em.

Jon


Very short-sighted view of things. You get many benefits both tangible
and intangible from educating those children.

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.










Sretna nova godina!





--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

YES WE ALL KNOW HOW DOES IT FEEL WHEN YOU
HAVE TO WORK FOR SOMETHING'S IN YOU LIFE.
"ONCE USELESS ALWAYS USELESS"!


wrote in message
m...
HeyBub wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
"[FLORIDA] Kimberly, a 6-year-old in the custody of her grandparents,
is facing eviction by local law enforcement because her grandparents
live in a retirement community. The child has lived in the house her
whole life, as her mother is unable to care for her due to
unspecified drug problems. Now authorities plan to remove the girl
from the only home she's ever known and place her in foster care with
strangers due to a homeowners association policy."

I agree. 'God's Waiting Room' (Florida) is no place for a child!

http://www.inquisitr.com/43825/flori...ict-6-year-old

I didn't expect such a long thread with such emphatic advocates on all
sides of the issue.

Still, the topic generated some thoughtful analysis, so it wasn't a total
waste of time. Amazingly everybody's in agreement that HOAs are the spawn
of Satan and those who sit on HOA boards should be cremated and the ashes
scattered.

Take no chances.



They're kind of like guns...it isn't guns that kill people, it is people.
HOAs are lovely without the people running them or violating the by-laws.

Grumpy wrote:
YES WE ALL KNOW HOW DOES IT FEEL WHEN YOU
HAVE TO WORK FOR SOMETHING'S IN YOU LIFE.
"ONCE USELESS ALWAYS USELESS"!


Ah, yes. At the beginning of the last century a compendium of set theory was
produced (set theory at that time was the foundation for all of
mathematics).

The author got a brief note from Bertrand Russel. It was too late to change
the book - the author was editing the page proofs) so he added a preface to
the tome (paraphrasing):

"One hopes that the reader never experiences the devastation visited upon
his life's work by the asking of a single question."

The question that Bertrand Russel asked?

Here's the popularized version:

Given: There is a male barber in a small town that shaves every man in the
town who does not shave himself.

Question: Who shaves the barber?

There are three possibilities:
* He shaves himself,
* He isn't shaved at all.
* Someone else shaves him.

All three possibilities violate the given condition.

"One hopes that the reader never experiences the devastation visited upon
his life's work by the asking of a single question."

AlGore?

HeyBub wrote:

Given: There is a male barber in a small town that shaves every man
in the town who does not shave himself.

Question: Who shaves the barber?

There are three possibilities:
* He shaves himself,
* He isn't shaved at all.
* Someone else shaves him.

All three possibilities violate the given condition.

Not the first two, according to the syntax provided in your "given"
statement".

Jon

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:23:39 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:

Given: There is a male barber in a small town that shaves every man
in the town who does not shave himself.

Question: Who shaves the barber?

There are three possibilities:
* He shaves himself,
* He isn't shaved at all.
* Someone else shaves him.

All three possibilities violate the given condition.

Not the first two, according to the syntax provided in your "given"
statement".

Jon

This one is as old as dinosaur stuff.
The barber female.

In article , "Jon Danniken" wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

Given: There is a male barber in a small town that shaves every man
in the town who does not shave himself.

Question: Who shaves the barber?

There are three possibilities:
* He shaves himself,
* He isn't shaved at all.
* Someone else shaves him.

All three possibilities violate the given condition.

Not the first two, according to the syntax provided in your "given"
statement".

The second one does indeed violate the given condition: if the barber isn't
shaved at all, then he is part of the set of "every man in town who does not
shave himself" and therefore *is* shaved by the barber -- a contradiction.

In article , Metspitzer wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:23:39 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:

Given: There is a male barber in a small town that shaves every man
in the town who does not shave himself.

Question: Who shaves the barber?

There are three possibilities:
* He shaves himself,
* He isn't shaved at all.
* Someone else shaves him.

All three possibilities violate the given condition.

Not the first two, according to the syntax provided in your "given"
statement".

Jon

This one is as old as dinosaur stuff.
The barber female.

Missed the fifth word, didja? "Given: There is a MALE barber ..."

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

Given: There is a male barber in a small town that shaves every man
in the town who does not shave himself.

Question: Who shaves the barber?

There are three possibilities:
* He shaves himself,
* He isn't shaved at all.
* Someone else shaves him.

All three possibilities violate the given condition.

Not the first two, according to the syntax provided in your "given"
statement".

The second one does indeed violate the given condition: if the barber
isn't
shaved at all, then he is part of the set of "every man in town who
does not
shave himself" and therefore *is* shaved by the barber -- a
contradiction.

Sure. In the case of Russel, he simply asked: "Is the universal set a proper
subset of itself?"