Awl --

I haven't, but for the life of me, all I see are *disadvantages* to this
gadget.

The first is, of course, cost.
This thing is triple the cost of a 7 1/4" circ saw, with blades that are 4-6
times the cost of std circ saw blades. Not to mention the lack of
availability.

Next, I can't see that it can do *anything* that a circ saw cannot do. In
fact, a lot less, and with a lot less accuracy.
The only ""advantage" is that the blade is teeny, so you have lower sfpm,
and can get away with cutting rebar, etc -- and I wonder for how long,
before the blade goes kaput.

It has no plate for straight cuts, no mitre, it is basically a 4 1/2"
grinder with a trim saw blade -- $19 from HF.
They never say what the blade size is, but it looks 4.5 - 5".

As always, the infomercial is highly misleading. You cannot do sink-type
cutouts without using a jig saw -- pure geometry of a circular blade.

True, it could reduce kickback, in case of a snag, or cutting unsupported
"in air", but I never had a problem with that either.

That "spark test" with gasoline was fraud.

Another infomercial hustle, afaict.

But if there are different experiences, do tell.
--
EA

On Dec 10, 2:51*am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
Awl --

I haven't, but for the life of me, all I see are *disadvantages* to this
gadget.

The first is, of course, cost.
This thing is triple the cost of a 7 1/4" circ saw, with blades that are 4-6
times the cost of std circ saw blades. *Not to mention the lack of
availability.

Next, I can't see that it can do *anything* that a circ saw cannot do. *In
fact, a lot less, and with a lot less accuracy.
The only ""advantage" is that the blade is teeny, so you have lower sfpm,
and can get away with cutting rebar, etc -- and I wonder for how long,
before the blade goes kaput.

It has no plate for straight cuts, no mitre, it is basically a 4 1/2"
grinder with a trim saw blade -- $19 from HF.
They never say what the blade size is, but it looks 4.5 - 5".

As always, the infomercial is highly misleading. *You cannot do sink-type
cutouts without using a jig saw -- pure geometry of a circular blade.

True, it could reduce kickback, in case of a snag, or cutting unsupported
"in air", but I never had a problem with that either.

That "spark test" with gasoline was fraud.

Another infomercial hustle, afaict.

But if there are different experiences, do tell.
--
EA

I had a post about this a few months back in AMC. Its a bust.
Maybe Vince(sham-wow, slap chop) can show it off? Got that camera guy?

http://users.cin.net/~milgil/CNC_xmas.jpg
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/Santa_checkup.jpg
--

ª"˜¨¨¯¯¨¨˜"ª¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Gil© ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ª"˜¨¨¯¯¨¨˜"ª

In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:

Awl --

I haven't, but for the life of me, all I see are *disadvantages* to this
gadget.

The first is, of course, cost.
This thing is triple the cost of a 7 1/4" circ saw, with blades that are 4-6
times the cost of std circ saw blades. Not to mention the lack of
availability.

Next, I can't see that it can do *anything* that a circ saw cannot do. In
fact, a lot less, and with a lot less accuracy.
The only ""advantage" is that the blade is teeny, so you have lower sfpm,
and can get away with cutting rebar, etc -- and I wonder for how long,
before the blade goes kaput.

It has no plate for straight cuts, no mitre, it is basically a 4 1/2"
grinder with a trim saw blade -- $19 from HF.
They never say what the blade size is, but it looks 4.5 - 5".

As always, the infomercial is highly misleading. You cannot do sink-type
cutouts without using a jig saw -- pure geometry of a circular blade.

True, it could reduce kickback, in case of a snag, or cutting unsupported
"in air", but I never had a problem with that either.

That "spark test" with gasoline was fraud.

Another infomercial hustle, afaict.

But if there are different experiences, do tell.

We've done the dual saw thread at least twice recently on a.h.r. Check
the archives.

cncmillgil wrote in
:

On Dec 10, 2:51*am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
Awl --

I haven't, but for the life of me, all I see are *disadvantages* to
this gadget.

The first is, of course, cost.
This thing is triple the cost of a 7 1/4" circ saw, with blades that
are
4-6
times the cost of std circ saw blades. *Not to mention the lack of
availability.

Next, I can't see that it can do *anything* that a circ saw cannot
do.
*In
fact, a lot less, and with a lot less accuracy.
The only ""advantage" is that the blade is teeny, so you have lower
sfpm, and can get away with cutting rebar, etc -- and I wonder for
how long, before the blade goes kaput.

It has no plate for straight cuts, no mitre, it is basically a 4 1/2"
grinder with a trim saw blade -- $19 from HF.
They never say what the blade size is, but it looks 4.5 - 5".

As always, the infomercial is highly misleading. *You cannot do
sink-ty
pe
cutouts without using a jig saw -- pure geometry of a circular blade.

True, it could reduce kickback, in case of a snag, or cutting
unsupported "in air", but I never had a problem with that either.

That "spark test" with gasoline was fraud.

Another infomercial hustle, afaict.

But if there are different experiences, do tell.
--
EA

I had a post about this a few months back in AMC. Its a bust.
Maybe Vince(sham-wow, slap chop) can show it off? Got that camera guy?

"You're gonna love my nuts."


http://users.cin.net/~milgil/CNC_xmas.jpg
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/Santa_checkup.jpg
--

ª"˜¨¨¯¯¨¨˜"ª¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Gil© ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ª"˜¨¨¯¯¨¨˜"ª

"Smitty Two" wrote

We've done the dual saw thread at least twice recently on a.h.r. Check
the archives.

We've also talked about just about everything else. Let's just disband the
newsgroup. And while we're at it, I think the patent office should be
closed too. Everything's been invented.

Use your Subject window to see if you want to follow the thread or not. If
it says, "Free videos of sex with small farm animals", can you intelligently
guess what the thread will be about?

I knewwwwwwwwwwwwwww you could.

Steve ;-)

On Dec 10, 2:14*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... * what????

What thread was that? Post a link, please.

What's inneresting to me is that this thing is bogus from *first
principles*, like effing perpetual motion -- altho at first blush it does
show some promise..
But instead you get these big long voice-of-effing-reason """objective"""
posts/reviews, from assholes who just don't effing get it.

I *did* miss the obvious, however, *these things are made with spit, and
these companies are set up to sodomize you with your own credit card.
The motors are crap, and the blades DON'T last through steel, esp. rebar,
bar stock -- *not at 6,000 rpm with a 5" diameter.

Sears apparently made one years ago, discontinued it, brought it back in
various forms.

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed blade.
$19 from HF.
AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? *visavis a
regular circular saw?

PV's Law:
* *ANYTHING on an infomercial is crap.
ANYTHING over-advertised (Geico, Progressive, freecreditreport.com,
Nautuilus TreadClimber) is crap. *The money that should be infused into the
product is instead spent on hype.
Really just the arithmetic of immutable economics.

The Little Giant Ladder and the Fein Multimaster were sold on
infomercials, as was the Chia Pet. Please explain what sucks about
those items.

R

On Dec 10, 2:42*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:



I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... what????

What thread was that? *Post a link, please.

I'm curious who on the rec doesn't know how to use a circular saw.
Please provide the link, or tell me the thread's subject line.
Thanks.

What's inneresting to me is that this thing is bogus from *first
principles*, like effing perpetual motion -- altho at first blush it does
show some promise..
But instead you get these big long voice-of-effing-reason """objective"""
posts/reviews, from assholes who just don't effing get it.

I *did* miss the obvious, however, these things are made with spit, and
these companies are set up to sodomize you with your own credit card.
The motors are crap, and the blades DON'T last through steel, esp. rebar,
bar stock -- not at 6,000 rpm with a 5" diameter.

Sears apparently made one years ago, discontinued it, brought it back in
various forms.

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade.
$19 from HF.
AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis a
regular circular saw?

PV's Law:
ANYTHING on an infomercial is crap.
ANYTHING over-advertised (Geico, Progressive, freecreditreport.com,
Nautuilus TreadClimber) is crap. The money that should be infused into the
product is instead spent on hype.
Really just the arithmetic of immutable economics.

The Little Giant Ladder and the Fein Multimaster were sold on

=============================

Uhhh, the..... *PRICE???????? *just as a start.....
--
EA

infomercials, as was the Chia Pet. *Please explain what sucks about
those items.

Your quoting skills are atrocious. You decorate and obfuscate instead
of just quoting like everyone else. Be that as it may...

You said all stuff on infomercials was crap - fine, you don't like the
price of those products, but what's wrong with them?

R

On Dec 10, 2:42*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:



I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... what????

What thread was that? *Post a link, please.

I'm curious who on the rec doesn't know how to use a circular saw.
Please provide the link, or tell me the thread's subject line.
Thanks.

What's inneresting to me is that this thing is bogus from *first
principles*, like effing perpetual motion -- altho at first blush it does
show some promise..
But instead you get these big long voice-of-effing-reason """objective"""
posts/reviews, from assholes who just don't effing get it.

I *did* miss the obvious, however, these things are made with spit, and
these companies are set up to sodomize you with your own credit card.
The motors are crap, and the blades DON'T last through steel, esp. rebar,
bar stock -- not at 6,000 rpm with a 5" diameter.

Sears apparently made one years ago, discontinued it, brought it back in
various forms.

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade.
$19 from HF.
AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis a
regular circular saw?

PV's Law:
ANYTHING on an infomercial is crap.
ANYTHING over-advertised (Geico, Progressive, freecreditreport.com,
Nautuilus TreadClimber) is crap. The money that should be infused into the
product is instead spent on hype.
Really just the arithmetic of immutable economics.

The Little Giant Ladder and the Fein Multimaster were sold on

=============================

Uhhh, the..... *PRICE???????? *just as a start.....
--
EA

infomercials, as was the Chia Pet. *Please explain what sucks about
those items.

Your quoting skills are atrocious. You decorate and obfuscate instead
of just quoting like everyone else. Be that as it may...

You said all stuff on infomercials was crap - fine, you don't like the
price of those products, but what's wrong with them?

R

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote

We've done the dual saw thread at least twice recently on a.h.r. Check
the archives.

We've also talked about just about everything else. Let's just disband the
newsgroup. And while we're at it, I think the patent office should be
closed too. Everything's been invented.

Use your Subject window to see if you want to follow the thread or not. If
it says, "Free videos of sex with small farm animals", can you intelligently
guess what the thread will be about?

I knewwwwwwwwwwwwwww you could.

Steve ;-)

What, did a welding spark fly up your ass, Steve? That does it, I'm
leaving town for some T & A.

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote

We've done the dual saw thread at least twice recently on a.h.r. Check
the archives.

We've also talked about just about everything else. Let's just disband the
newsgroup. And while we're at it, I think the patent office should be
closed too. Everything's been invented.

Use your Subject window to see if you want to follow the thread or not. If
it says, "Free videos of sex with small farm animals", can you intelligently
guess what the thread will be about?

I knewwwwwwwwwwwwwww you could.

Steve ;-)

What, did a welding spark fly up your ass, Steve? That does it, I'm
leaving town for some T & A.

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote

We've done the dual saw thread at least twice recently on a.h.r. Check
the archives.

We've also talked about just about everything else. Let's just disband the
newsgroup. And while we're at it, I think the patent office should be
closed too. Everything's been invented.

Use your Subject window to see if you want to follow the thread or not. If
it says, "Free videos of sex with small farm animals", can you intelligently
guess what the thread will be about?

I knewwwwwwwwwwwwwww you could.

Steve ;-)

What, did a welding spark fly up your ass, Steve? That does it, I'm
leaving town for some T & A.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:



I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just
don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... what????

What thread was that? Post a link, please.

I'm curious who on the rec doesn't know how to use a circular saw.
Please provide the link, or tell me the thread's subject line.
Thanks.

What's inneresting to me is that this thing is bogus from *first
principles*, like effing perpetual motion -- altho at first blush it
does
show some promise..
But instead you get these big long voice-of-effing-reason
"""objective"""
posts/reviews, from assholes who just don't effing get it.

I *did* miss the obvious, however, these things are made with spit, and
these companies are set up to sodomize you with your own credit card.
The motors are crap, and the blades DON'T last through steel, esp.
rebar,
bar stock -- not at 6,000 rpm with a 5" diameter.

Sears apparently made one years ago, discontinued it, brought it back in
various forms.

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade.
$19 from HF.
AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis a
regular circular saw?

PV's Law:
ANYTHING on an infomercial is crap.
ANYTHING over-advertised (Geico, Progressive, freecreditreport.com,
Nautuilus TreadClimber) is crap. The money that should be infused into
the
product is instead spent on hype.
Really just the arithmetic of immutable economics.

The Little Giant Ladder and the Fein Multimaster were sold on

=============================

Uhhh, the..... PRICE???????? just as a start.....
--
EA

infomercials, as was the Chia Pet. Please explain what sucks about
those items.

Your quoting skills are atrocious. You decorate and obfuscate instead
of just quoting like everyone else. Be that as it may...

=============================================

for some reason, your posts are not quotable. Which is proly just as well.
---------------------------

You said all stuff on infomercials was crap - fine, you don't like the
price of those products, but what's wrong with them?
==============================================

Bang fer yer buck that is 1/10 the bang/buck of "traditional" tools = crap
and/or ripoff.

Bang fer yer buck = performance divided by $$.
Either low perf or excessively high $$ = crap and/or ripoff.
--
EA



R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:



I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just
don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... what????

What thread was that? Post a link, please.

I'm curious who on the rec doesn't know how to use a circular saw.
Please provide the link, or tell me the thread's subject line.
Thanks.

What's inneresting to me is that this thing is bogus from *first
principles*, like effing perpetual motion -- altho at first blush it
does
show some promise..
But instead you get these big long voice-of-effing-reason
"""objective"""
posts/reviews, from assholes who just don't effing get it.

I *did* miss the obvious, however, these things are made with spit, and
these companies are set up to sodomize you with your own credit card.
The motors are crap, and the blades DON'T last through steel, esp.
rebar,
bar stock -- not at 6,000 rpm with a 5" diameter.

Sears apparently made one years ago, discontinued it, brought it back in
various forms.

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade.
$19 from HF.
AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis a
regular circular saw?

PV's Law:
ANYTHING on an infomercial is crap.
ANYTHING over-advertised (Geico, Progressive, freecreditreport.com,
Nautuilus TreadClimber) is crap. The money that should be infused into
the
product is instead spent on hype.
Really just the arithmetic of immutable economics.

The Little Giant Ladder and the Fein Multimaster were sold on

=============================

Uhhh, the..... PRICE???????? just as a start.....
--
EA

infomercials, as was the Chia Pet. Please explain what sucks about
those items.

Your quoting skills are atrocious. You decorate and obfuscate instead
of just quoting like everyone else. Be that as it may...

=============================================

for some reason, your posts are not quotable. Which is proly just as well.
---------------------------

You said all stuff on infomercials was crap - fine, you don't like the
price of those products, but what's wrong with them?
==============================================

Bang fer yer buck that is 1/10 the bang/buck of "traditional" tools = crap
and/or ripoff.

Bang fer yer buck = performance divided by $$.
Either low perf or excessively high $$ = crap and/or ripoff.
--
EA



R

On Dec 10, 9:18*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...
On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just
don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... what????

What thread was that? Post a link, please.

I'm curious who on the rec doesn't know how to use a circular saw.
Please provide the link, or tell me the thread's subject line.
Thanks.



What's inneresting to me is that this thing is bogus from *first
principles*, like effing perpetual motion -- altho at first blush it
does
show some promise..
But instead you get these big long voice-of-effing-reason
"""objective"""
posts/reviews, from assholes who just don't effing get it.

I *did* miss the obvious, however, these things are made with spit, and
these companies are set up to sodomize you with your own credit card.
The motors are crap, and the blades DON'T last through steel, esp.
rebar,
bar stock -- not at 6,000 rpm with a 5" diameter.

Sears apparently made one years ago, discontinued it, brought it back in
various forms.

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade.
$19 from HF.
AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis a
regular circular saw?

PV's Law:
ANYTHING on an infomercial is crap.
ANYTHING over-advertised (Geico, Progressive, freecreditreport.com,
Nautuilus TreadClimber) is crap. The money that should be infused into
the
product is instead spent on hype.
Really just the arithmetic of immutable economics.

The Little Giant Ladder and the Fein Multimaster were sold on

=============================

Uhhh, the..... PRICE???????? just as a start.....
--
EA

infomercials, as was the Chia Pet. Please explain what sucks about
those items.

Your quoting skills are atrocious. *You decorate and obfuscate instead
of just quoting like everyone else. *Be that as it may...

=============================================

for some reason, your posts are not quotable. *Which is proly just as well.
---------------------------

You said all stuff on infomercials was crap - fine, you don't like the
price of those products, but what's wrong with them?
==============================================

Bang fer yer buck that is 1/10 the bang/buck of "traditional" tools = crap
and/or ripoff.

Bang fer yer buck = performance divided by $$.
Either low perf or excessively high $$ = crap and/or ripoff.
--
EA

No one else seems to have the problem - just as well.

I see there's no link to that thread you mentioned, so I'll assume
that the BS about people on the REC not knowing how to use a circular
saw is just you blowing smoke.

I bought both the Little Giant ladder and the Fein Mulitmaster before
their patents ran out when there were no comparable tools. I did not
buy them from infomercials. The Little Giant I picked up at a trade
show, and the Fein was bought used. Both are anything but crap and I
would have liked to have had both years earlier. They would have
saved me both time and money in the long run. Now that the patents
have run out there are competing products, and you can get into
similar tools for less money. As far as I have seen, none of the
competing products have the same quality. You aren't willing to pay
for the quality - that's not my concern.

R

On Dec 10, 9:18*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...
On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just
don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... what????

What thread was that? Post a link, please.

I'm curious who on the rec doesn't know how to use a circular saw.
Please provide the link, or tell me the thread's subject line.
Thanks.



What's inneresting to me is that this thing is bogus from *first
principles*, like effing perpetual motion -- altho at first blush it
does
show some promise..
But instead you get these big long voice-of-effing-reason
"""objective"""
posts/reviews, from assholes who just don't effing get it.

I *did* miss the obvious, however, these things are made with spit, and
these companies are set up to sodomize you with your own credit card.
The motors are crap, and the blades DON'T last through steel, esp.
rebar,
bar stock -- not at 6,000 rpm with a 5" diameter.

Sears apparently made one years ago, discontinued it, brought it back in
various forms.

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade.
$19 from HF.
AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis a
regular circular saw?

PV's Law:
ANYTHING on an infomercial is crap.
ANYTHING over-advertised (Geico, Progressive, freecreditreport.com,
Nautuilus TreadClimber) is crap. The money that should be infused into
the
product is instead spent on hype.
Really just the arithmetic of immutable economics.

The Little Giant Ladder and the Fein Multimaster were sold on

=============================

Uhhh, the..... PRICE???????? just as a start.....
--
EA

infomercials, as was the Chia Pet. Please explain what sucks about
those items.

Your quoting skills are atrocious. *You decorate and obfuscate instead
of just quoting like everyone else. *Be that as it may...

=============================================

for some reason, your posts are not quotable. *Which is proly just as well.
---------------------------

You said all stuff on infomercials was crap - fine, you don't like the
price of those products, but what's wrong with them?
==============================================

Bang fer yer buck that is 1/10 the bang/buck of "traditional" tools = crap
and/or ripoff.

Bang fer yer buck = performance divided by $$.
Either low perf or excessively high $$ = crap and/or ripoff.
--
EA

No one else seems to have the problem - just as well.

I see there's no link to that thread you mentioned, so I'll assume
that the BS about people on the REC not knowing how to use a circular
saw is just you blowing smoke.

I bought both the Little Giant ladder and the Fein Mulitmaster before
their patents ran out when there were no comparable tools. I did not
buy them from infomercials. The Little Giant I picked up at a trade
show, and the Fein was bought used. Both are anything but crap and I
would have liked to have had both years earlier. They would have
saved me both time and money in the long run. Now that the patents
have run out there are competing products, and you can get into
similar tools for less money. As far as I have seen, none of the
competing products have the same quality. You aren't willing to pay
for the quality - that's not my concern.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 9:18 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...
On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people
who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just
don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... what????

What thread was that? Post a link, please.

I'm curious who on the rec doesn't know how to use a circular saw.
Please provide the link, or tell me the thread's subject line.
Thanks.



What's inneresting to me is that this thing is bogus from *first
principles*, like effing perpetual motion -- altho at first blush it
does
show some promise..
But instead you get these big long voice-of-effing-reason
"""objective"""
posts/reviews, from assholes who just don't effing get it.

I *did* miss the obvious, however, these things are made with spit,
and
these companies are set up to sodomize you with your own credit card.
The motors are crap, and the blades DON'T last through steel, esp.
rebar,
bar stock -- not at 6,000 rpm with a 5" diameter.

Sears apparently made one years ago, discontinued it, brought it back
in
various forms.

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade.
$19 from HF.
AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis
a
regular circular saw?

PV's Law:
ANYTHING on an infomercial is crap.
ANYTHING over-advertised (Geico, Progressive, freecreditreport.com,
Nautuilus TreadClimber) is crap. The money that should be infused into
the
product is instead spent on hype.
Really just the arithmetic of immutable economics.

The Little Giant Ladder and the Fein Multimaster were sold on

=============================

Uhhh, the..... PRICE???????? just as a start.....
--
EA

infomercials, as was the Chia Pet. Please explain what sucks about
those items.

Your quoting skills are atrocious. You decorate and obfuscate instead
of just quoting like everyone else. Be that as it may...

=============================================

for some reason, your posts are not quotable. Which is proly just as well.
---------------------------

You said all stuff on infomercials was crap - fine, you don't like the
price of those products, but what's wrong with them?
==============================================

Bang fer yer buck that is 1/10 the bang/buck of "traditional" tools = crap
and/or ripoff.

Bang fer yer buck = performance divided by $$.
Either low perf or excessively high $$ = crap and/or ripoff.
--
EA

No one else seems to have the problem - just as well.

I see there's no link to that thread you mentioned, so I'll assume
that the BS about people on the REC not knowing how to use a circular
saw is just you blowing smoke.
=========================================

Dude, take a 'lude, and do a search like I did. HTF do I know the exact
thread? google is a fukn mess.
It may not have been rec.woodworking... coulda been alt. or whatever.
goodgawd....
--------------------------------------



I bought both the Little Giant ladder and the Fein Mulitmaster before
their patents ran out when there were no comparable tools. I did not
buy them from infomercials. The Little Giant I picked up at a trade
show, and the Fein was bought used. Both are anything but crap and I
would have liked to have had both years earlier. They would have
saved me both time and money in the long run. Now that the patents
have run out there are competing products, and you can get into
similar tools for less money. As far as I have seen, none of the
competing products have the same quality. You aren't willing to pay
for the quality - that's not my concern.
======================================

Sounds to me like you are very happy "buying the price" -- more power to
you.
But, I'm happy that you're happy.
I'm even happier that we are not neighbors. goodgawd.....
--
EA

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 9:18 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...
On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people
who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just
don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... what????

What thread was that? Post a link, please.

I'm curious who on the rec doesn't know how to use a circular saw.
Please provide the link, or tell me the thread's subject line.
Thanks.



What's inneresting to me is that this thing is bogus from *first
principles*, like effing perpetual motion -- altho at first blush it
does
show some promise..
But instead you get these big long voice-of-effing-reason
"""objective"""
posts/reviews, from assholes who just don't effing get it.

I *did* miss the obvious, however, these things are made with spit,
and
these companies are set up to sodomize you with your own credit card.
The motors are crap, and the blades DON'T last through steel, esp.
rebar,
bar stock -- not at 6,000 rpm with a 5" diameter.

Sears apparently made one years ago, discontinued it, brought it back
in
various forms.

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade.
$19 from HF.
AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis
a
regular circular saw?

PV's Law:
ANYTHING on an infomercial is crap.
ANYTHING over-advertised (Geico, Progressive, freecreditreport.com,
Nautuilus TreadClimber) is crap. The money that should be infused into
the
product is instead spent on hype.
Really just the arithmetic of immutable economics.

The Little Giant Ladder and the Fein Multimaster were sold on

=============================

Uhhh, the..... PRICE???????? just as a start.....
--
EA

infomercials, as was the Chia Pet. Please explain what sucks about
those items.

Your quoting skills are atrocious. You decorate and obfuscate instead
of just quoting like everyone else. Be that as it may...

=============================================

for some reason, your posts are not quotable. Which is proly just as well.
---------------------------

You said all stuff on infomercials was crap - fine, you don't like the
price of those products, but what's wrong with them?
==============================================

Bang fer yer buck that is 1/10 the bang/buck of "traditional" tools = crap
and/or ripoff.

Bang fer yer buck = performance divided by $$.
Either low perf or excessively high $$ = crap and/or ripoff.
--
EA

No one else seems to have the problem - just as well.

I see there's no link to that thread you mentioned, so I'll assume
that the BS about people on the REC not knowing how to use a circular
saw is just you blowing smoke.
=========================================

Dude, take a 'lude, and do a search like I did. HTF do I know the exact
thread? google is a fukn mess.
It may not have been rec.woodworking... coulda been alt. or whatever.
goodgawd....
--------------------------------------



I bought both the Little Giant ladder and the Fein Mulitmaster before
their patents ran out when there were no comparable tools. I did not
buy them from infomercials. The Little Giant I picked up at a trade
show, and the Fein was bought used. Both are anything but crap and I
would have liked to have had both years earlier. They would have
saved me both time and money in the long run. Now that the patents
have run out there are competing products, and you can get into
similar tools for less money. As far as I have seen, none of the
competing products have the same quality. You aren't willing to pay
for the quality - that's not my concern.
======================================

Sounds to me like you are very happy "buying the price" -- more power to
you.
But, I'm happy that you're happy.
I'm even happier that we are not neighbors. goodgawd.....
--
EA

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 9:18 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...
On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people
who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just
don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... what????

What thread was that? Post a link, please.

I'm curious who on the rec doesn't know how to use a circular saw.
Please provide the link, or tell me the thread's subject line.
Thanks.



What's inneresting to me is that this thing is bogus from *first
principles*, like effing perpetual motion -- altho at first blush it
does
show some promise..
But instead you get these big long voice-of-effing-reason
"""objective"""
posts/reviews, from assholes who just don't effing get it.

I *did* miss the obvious, however, these things are made with spit,
and
these companies are set up to sodomize you with your own credit card.
The motors are crap, and the blades DON'T last through steel, esp.
rebar,
bar stock -- not at 6,000 rpm with a 5" diameter.

Sears apparently made one years ago, discontinued it, brought it back
in
various forms.

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade.
$19 from HF.
AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis
a
regular circular saw?

PV's Law:
ANYTHING on an infomercial is crap.
ANYTHING over-advertised (Geico, Progressive, freecreditreport.com,
Nautuilus TreadClimber) is crap. The money that should be infused into
the
product is instead spent on hype.
Really just the arithmetic of immutable economics.

The Little Giant Ladder and the Fein Multimaster were sold on

=============================

Uhhh, the..... PRICE???????? just as a start.....
--
EA

infomercials, as was the Chia Pet. Please explain what sucks about
those items.

Your quoting skills are atrocious. You decorate and obfuscate instead
of just quoting like everyone else. Be that as it may...

=============================================

for some reason, your posts are not quotable. Which is proly just as well.
---------------------------

You said all stuff on infomercials was crap - fine, you don't like the
price of those products, but what's wrong with them?
==============================================

Bang fer yer buck that is 1/10 the bang/buck of "traditional" tools = crap
and/or ripoff.

Bang fer yer buck = performance divided by $$.
Either low perf or excessively high $$ = crap and/or ripoff.
--
EA

No one else seems to have the problem - just as well.

I see there's no link to that thread you mentioned, so I'll assume
that the BS about people on the REC not knowing how to use a circular
saw is just you blowing smoke.
=========================================

Dude, take a 'lude, and do a search like I did. HTF do I know the exact
thread? google is a fukn mess.
It may not have been rec.woodworking... coulda been alt. or whatever.
goodgawd....
--------------------------------------



I bought both the Little Giant ladder and the Fein Mulitmaster before
their patents ran out when there were no comparable tools. I did not
buy them from infomercials. The Little Giant I picked up at a trade
show, and the Fein was bought used. Both are anything but crap and I
would have liked to have had both years earlier. They would have
saved me both time and money in the long run. Now that the patents
have run out there are competing products, and you can get into
similar tools for less money. As far as I have seen, none of the
competing products have the same quality. You aren't willing to pay
for the quality - that's not my concern.
======================================

Sounds to me like you are very happy "buying the price" -- more power to
you.
But, I'm happy that you're happy.
I'm even happier that we are not neighbors. goodgawd.....
--
EA

R

RicodJour wrote:

No one else seems to have the problem - just as well.

I see there's no link to that thread you mentioned, so I'll assume
that the BS about people on the REC not knowing how to use a circular
saw is just you blowing smoke.

I bought both the Little Giant ladder and the Fein Mulitmaster before
their patents ran out when there were no comparable tools. I did not
buy them from infomercials. The Little Giant I picked up at a trade
show, and the Fein was bought used. Both are anything but crap and I
would have liked to have had both years earlier. They would have
saved me both time and money in the long run. Now that the patents
have run out there are competing products, and you can get into
similar tools for less money. As far as I have seen, none of the
competing products have the same quality. You aren't willing to pay
for the quality - that's not my concern.

R


Have two of the Little Giant ladders myself. Plus one of the planks.
Best ladders I have EVER owned. Makes all the other ladders out there
look like crap. I also know of a lot of fire companies that are getting
them because of the build quality.
--
Steve W.

RicodJour wrote:

No one else seems to have the problem - just as well.

I see there's no link to that thread you mentioned, so I'll assume
that the BS about people on the REC not knowing how to use a circular
saw is just you blowing smoke.

I bought both the Little Giant ladder and the Fein Mulitmaster before
their patents ran out when there were no comparable tools. I did not
buy them from infomercials. The Little Giant I picked up at a trade
show, and the Fein was bought used. Both are anything but crap and I
would have liked to have had both years earlier. They would have
saved me both time and money in the long run. Now that the patents
have run out there are competing products, and you can get into
similar tools for less money. As far as I have seen, none of the
competing products have the same quality. You aren't willing to pay
for the quality - that's not my concern.

R


Have two of the Little Giant ladders myself. Plus one of the planks.
Best ladders I have EVER owned. Makes all the other ladders out there
look like crap. I also know of a lot of fire companies that are getting
them because of the build quality.
--
Steve W.

RicodJour wrote:

No one else seems to have the problem - just as well.

I see there's no link to that thread you mentioned, so I'll assume
that the BS about people on the REC not knowing how to use a circular
saw is just you blowing smoke.

I bought both the Little Giant ladder and the Fein Mulitmaster before
their patents ran out when there were no comparable tools. I did not
buy them from infomercials. The Little Giant I picked up at a trade
show, and the Fein was bought used. Both are anything but crap and I
would have liked to have had both years earlier. They would have
saved me both time and money in the long run. Now that the patents
have run out there are competing products, and you can get into
similar tools for less money. As far as I have seen, none of the
competing products have the same quality. You aren't willing to pay
for the quality - that's not my concern.

R


Have two of the Little Giant ladders myself. Plus one of the planks.
Best ladders I have EVER owned. Makes all the other ladders out there
look like crap. I also know of a lot of fire companies that are getting
them because of the build quality.
--
Steve W.

The most important point of the infomercial was missed.. the DualSaw cuts
diamond plated aluminum, and almost everyone knows how hard diamond is.

I think they claim 8 years and millions of dollars to develop the DualSaw..
yeah, right.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

I haven't, but for the life of me, all I see are *disadvantages* to this
gadget.

The first is, of course, cost.
This thing is triple the cost of a 7 1/4" circ saw, with blades that are
4-6 times the cost of std circ saw blades. Not to mention the lack of
availability.

Next, I can't see that it can do *anything* that a circ saw cannot do. In
fact, a lot less, and with a lot less accuracy.
The only ""advantage" is that the blade is teeny, so you have lower sfpm,
and can get away with cutting rebar, etc -- and I wonder for how long,
before the blade goes kaput.

It has no plate for straight cuts, no mitre, it is basically a 4 1/2"
grinder with a trim saw blade -- $19 from HF.
They never say what the blade size is, but it looks 4.5 - 5".

As always, the infomercial is highly misleading. You cannot do sink-type
cutouts without using a jig saw -- pure geometry of a circular blade.

True, it could reduce kickback, in case of a snag, or cutting unsupported
"in air", but I never had a problem with that either.

That "spark test" with gasoline was fraud.

Another infomercial hustle, afaict.

But if there are different experiences, do tell.
--
EA

The most important point of the infomercial was missed.. the DualSaw cuts
diamond plated aluminum, and almost everyone knows how hard diamond is.

I think they claim 8 years and millions of dollars to develop the DualSaw..
yeah, right.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

I haven't, but for the life of me, all I see are *disadvantages* to this
gadget.

The first is, of course, cost.
This thing is triple the cost of a 7 1/4" circ saw, with blades that are
4-6 times the cost of std circ saw blades. Not to mention the lack of
availability.

Next, I can't see that it can do *anything* that a circ saw cannot do. In
fact, a lot less, and with a lot less accuracy.
The only ""advantage" is that the blade is teeny, so you have lower sfpm,
and can get away with cutting rebar, etc -- and I wonder for how long,
before the blade goes kaput.

It has no plate for straight cuts, no mitre, it is basically a 4 1/2"
grinder with a trim saw blade -- $19 from HF.
They never say what the blade size is, but it looks 4.5 - 5".

As always, the infomercial is highly misleading. You cannot do sink-type
cutouts without using a jig saw -- pure geometry of a circular blade.

True, it could reduce kickback, in case of a snag, or cutting unsupported
"in air", but I never had a problem with that either.

That "spark test" with gasoline was fraud.

Another infomercial hustle, afaict.

But if there are different experiences, do tell.
--
EA

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
The most important point of the infomercial was missed.. the DualSaw cuts
diamond plated aluminum, and almost everyone knows how hard diamond is.

I think they claim 8 years and millions of dollars to develop the
DualSaw.. yeah, right.

I was actually going to mention that as a kind of proof of deceptive
intent -- but then RicodJour mighta bunched up his panties so tight, he
mighta hurt himself.

And where there is smoke there is fire.
Even when everything else seems/sounds above board and kosher, one willful
piece of neglect fact-wise usually is just the tip of the conjob iceberg.
Like fitness infomercials, where they can't even get the name of the muscle
right. Which dudn't really matter, being that they are just one long string
of illusion, allusion, and non sequiturs.

The Genesis, I believe:
Tony Little changed the shape (heh) of the marketing and advertising world.
He sold millions of Ab Isolators, being so pudgy he had to wear a shiny
Lycra body suit.
That's like... that's like..... that's as absurd as a tobacco company
telling you not to smoke.

Hey.... wait a minute.... Big Tobaccer IS telling us not to smoke!!!
Holy ****.....

Well, anyway, both prove my point:
We live in a BizarroLand of logic, which is heaven come to earth fer
yer local marketeer.

Tony Little demonstrated this BizarroLand Logic in what could have been the
greatest marketing experiment ever performed -- advertising has never been
the same since.

And, if TV were the hypnotist's pendulum, then the Internet is a surgical
brain probe -- the situation is orders of magnitude worser now.

Marketeers can not only sell snow to an Eskimo, it won't even be snow!
AND, you won't be able to return it.
AND, not only will your credit card company not reverse the charges, they
may up your interest rate to... oh, 40%, instead of the current 30%, for
being 1. a self-professed idiot, and 2. for being a pita to them, on top of
it all.

More reasons to love Merka.
--
EA




--
WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

I haven't, but for the life of me, all I see are *disadvantages* to this
gadget.

The first is, of course, cost.
This thing is triple the cost of a 7 1/4" circ saw, with blades that are
4-6 times the cost of std circ saw blades. Not to mention the lack of
availability.

Next, I can't see that it can do *anything* that a circ saw cannot do.
In fact, a lot less, and with a lot less accuracy.
The only ""advantage" is that the blade is teeny, so you have lower sfpm,
and can get away with cutting rebar, etc -- and I wonder for how long,
before the blade goes kaput.

It has no plate for straight cuts, no mitre, it is basically a 4 1/2"
grinder with a trim saw blade -- $19 from HF.
They never say what the blade size is, but it looks 4.5 - 5".

As always, the infomercial is highly misleading. You cannot do sink-type
cutouts without using a jig saw -- pure geometry of a circular blade.

True, it could reduce kickback, in case of a snag, or cutting unsupported
"in air", but I never had a problem with that either.

That "spark test" with gasoline was fraud.

Another infomercial hustle, afaict.

But if there are different experiences, do tell.
--
EA

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
The most important point of the infomercial was missed.. the DualSaw cuts
diamond plated aluminum, and almost everyone knows how hard diamond is.

I think they claim 8 years and millions of dollars to develop the
DualSaw.. yeah, right.

I was actually going to mention that as a kind of proof of deceptive
intent -- but then RicodJour mighta bunched up his panties so tight, he
mighta hurt himself.

And where there is smoke there is fire.
Even when everything else seems/sounds above board and kosher, one willful
piece of neglect fact-wise usually is just the tip of the conjob iceberg.
Like fitness infomercials, where they can't even get the name of the muscle
right. Which dudn't really matter, being that they are just one long string
of illusion, allusion, and non sequiturs.

The Genesis, I believe:
Tony Little changed the shape (heh) of the marketing and advertising world.
He sold millions of Ab Isolators, being so pudgy he had to wear a shiny
Lycra body suit.
That's like... that's like..... that's as absurd as a tobacco company
telling you not to smoke.

Hey.... wait a minute.... Big Tobaccer IS telling us not to smoke!!!
Holy ****.....

Well, anyway, both prove my point:
We live in a BizarroLand of logic, which is heaven come to earth fer
yer local marketeer.

Tony Little demonstrated this BizarroLand Logic in what could have been the
greatest marketing experiment ever performed -- advertising has never been
the same since.

And, if TV were the hypnotist's pendulum, then the Internet is a surgical
brain probe -- the situation is orders of magnitude worser now.

Marketeers can not only sell snow to an Eskimo, it won't even be snow!
AND, you won't be able to return it.
AND, not only will your credit card company not reverse the charges, they
may up your interest rate to... oh, 40%, instead of the current 30%, for
being 1. a self-professed idiot, and 2. for being a pita to them, on top of
it all.

More reasons to love Merka.
--
EA




--
WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

I haven't, but for the life of me, all I see are *disadvantages* to this
gadget.

The first is, of course, cost.
This thing is triple the cost of a 7 1/4" circ saw, with blades that are
4-6 times the cost of std circ saw blades. Not to mention the lack of
availability.

Next, I can't see that it can do *anything* that a circ saw cannot do.
In fact, a lot less, and with a lot less accuracy.
The only ""advantage" is that the blade is teeny, so you have lower sfpm,
and can get away with cutting rebar, etc -- and I wonder for how long,
before the blade goes kaput.

It has no plate for straight cuts, no mitre, it is basically a 4 1/2"
grinder with a trim saw blade -- $19 from HF.
They never say what the blade size is, but it looks 4.5 - 5".

As always, the infomercial is highly misleading. You cannot do sink-type
cutouts without using a jig saw -- pure geometry of a circular blade.

True, it could reduce kickback, in case of a snag, or cutting unsupported
"in air", but I never had a problem with that either.

That "spark test" with gasoline was fraud.

Another infomercial hustle, afaict.

But if there are different experiences, do tell.
--
EA

On Dec 10, 9:47*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
Dude, take a 'lude, and do a search like I did. *HTF do I know the exact
thread? *google is a fukn mess.

You're the one making the claim. Prove your claim.

On Dec 10, 9:47*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
Dude, take a 'lude, and do a search like I did. *HTF do I know the exact
thread? *google is a fukn mess.

You're the one making the claim. Prove your claim.

On Dec 10, 9:47*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

I see there's no link to that thread you mentioned, so I'll assume
that the BS about people on the REC not knowing how to use a circular
saw is just you blowing smoke.

Dude, take a 'lude, and do a search like I did. *HTF do I know the exact
thread? *google is a fukn mess.
It may not have been rec.woodworking... *coulda been alt. or whatever.
goodgawd....

Oh, well, then that explains it - the people that don't know how to
use a circular saw were some people somewhere on Usenet. Thanks for
narrowing it down. Sheesh.

Listen, if you're going to do a song and dance, blow smoke, or rant,
have some self respect and do a good job - or at least be
entertaining. Otherwise, find that one person in real life who will
listen to you and blow the hot air on them.

Thanks.

R

On Dec 10, 9:47*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

I see there's no link to that thread you mentioned, so I'll assume
that the BS about people on the REC not knowing how to use a circular
saw is just you blowing smoke.

Dude, take a 'lude, and do a search like I did. *HTF do I know the exact
thread? *google is a fukn mess.
It may not have been rec.woodworking... *coulda been alt. or whatever.
goodgawd....

Oh, well, then that explains it - the people that don't know how to
use a circular saw were some people somewhere on Usenet. Thanks for
narrowing it down. Sheesh.

Listen, if you're going to do a song and dance, blow smoke, or rant,
have some self respect and do a good job - or at least be
entertaining. Otherwise, find that one person in real life who will
listen to you and blow the hot air on them.

Thanks.

R

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:14:04 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed blade.
$19 from HF.

Perhaps you didn't notice that this thing has two blades turning in
opposite directions. That's a bigggg difference from an angle
grinder, and maybe a big difference in performance too.

It seems to me it would make the kerf bigger but make the cut easier
to control.

AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis a
regular circular saw?

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:14:04 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade.
$19 from HF.

Perhaps you didn't notice that this thing has two blades turning in
opposite directions. That's a bigggg difference from an angle
grinder, and maybe a big difference in performance too.

First, how could one miss this? The infomercial bleats about this almost
non-stop.

Second, note that unless one is plunge cutting *straight down*, one blade
executes a conventional cut, and the other a "climb" cut. This *immediately*
(at least in principle) poses a challenge to the anti-kick/grab claim. Also
the fact that these two blades are cutting two different swaths of material
(albeit directly adjacent) poses a challenge to this claim.

Altho this would have to be tested, I can see a number of situations where
this anti-kick claim becomes handicapped -- IF it is significant to begin
with -- for example, in thick, tough material, and as per the above.
The only thing those spinning blades truly neutralize is angular momentum --
the gyroscope effect.

I'm betting that in a truly objective test, you might find one or two
trivial scenarios where this thing might have an advantage -- like mebbe in
cutting thin unsupported branches/rod with an unsupported saw. Haven't seen
any tree-cutters with this thing on their belt, tho.

I was hoping someone could identify *useful* situations where this thing
actually proved worthwhile.
And THEN try to justify cost/benefit ratio....

Didja see, btw, how a *chain saw* was in that pile of saws they wanted you
to throw away, cuz of the dual saw?? With it's approx. 1" depth cut??
goodgawd....


It seems to me it would make the kerf bigger but make the cut easier
to control.

You noticed the kerf thing!
Not a big deal, but basically double kerf is double the heat, effort,
blade-dulling -- and material waste. Which is all moot, given how little
most people would use this thing.
Indeed, one of the considerations in sawing is to use the thinnest blade
that will accomplish the task safely,without breakage.

Remember that stunt in the beginning -- the guy cutting himself out of that
flimsy diamond-plate box?
First, I wonder if that was even 1/8" material.

Second, my $40 7 1/4" circular with its $5 carbide blade proly coulda cut
that opening in 1/4 the time, with a much better cut -- iirc, notice they
didn't show closeups of the cut? Dudn't matter, cuz they'd be lying anyway.
I'll bet a real demo would have that cut look like someone went at it,
blind, with a chainsaw -- or an axe.

I made sliding covers for m'truck out of 1/8 diamond plate, but had it
sheared. I have some leftover somewhere, and when I find it, I'll set it
aside to eventually do a pass with a circular saw.
If it cuts aluminum anywhere *near* now my crappy Craftsman 10" RAS cuts 1"
alum plate, I'll think I was cutting balsa.

Utter fraud, imo.
I don't believe ANY fire dept uses these things -- with a 1" depth of cut???
Gimme an effing break.
Uhhhh, hey, this lady is burning up, WHERE'S THE EXTENSION CORD??????

What fire depts DO use are these gonzo gasoline-powered chop/abrasive saws.
--
EA, loving Merka more and more.


AND, just how useful is an angle grinder with a toothed blade? visavis a
regular circular saw?

On Dec 12, 1:44*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"mm" wrote in message
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:14:04 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

But ultimately, this pos is just a 4.5" angle grinder, with a toothed
blade. $19 from HF.

Perhaps you didn't notice that this thing has two blades turning in
opposite directions. * That's a bigggg difference from an angle
grinder, and maybe a big difference in performance too.

First, how could one miss this? *The infomercial bleats about this almost
non-stop.

Second, note that unless one is plunge cutting *straight down*, one blade
executes a conventional cut, and the other a "climb" cut. This *immediately*
(at least in principle) poses a challenge to the anti-kick/grab claim. *Also
the fact that these two blades are cutting two different swaths of material
(albeit directly adjacent) poses a challenge to this claim.

Altho this would have to be tested, I can see a number of situations where
this anti-kick claim becomes handicapped -- IF it is significant to begin
with -- for example, in thick, tough material, and as per the above.
The only thing those spinning blades truly neutralize is angular momentum -- *
the gyroscope effect.

I find it most curious that you have such strong opinions on a tool
that you have never laid hands on. Your "*immediately* (at least in
principal)" translates to "I don't know", as do all of your
objections.
Amazon and epinions have lots of reviews on the tool - some people
like it, some don't. At least they have the good graces to give an
opinion after they've used the fookin thing.

If you're taking requests, I'd like to know your detailed opinion -
based on your usual surmise and conjecture - about which car I should
buy next (I'm in the market). There are so many cars to choose from
and, well, your ability to know all about something you've never
touched is close to miraculous. I appreciate the help.

Thanks.

R

In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:

Next, when you grok the difference between a "conventional cut" and a "climb
cut", post back -- maybe then we can have an intelligent conversation.

Something you clearly don't, EA. Those terms apply to end mills when
using the side of the cutter. Applied to a circular saw blade, they're
just meaningless technobabble used to weakly obfuscate your ignorance.

On Dec 15, 9:40*am, Smitty Two wrote:
*"Existential Angst" wrote:

Next, when you grok the difference between a "conventional cut" and a "climb
cut", post back -- maybe then we can have an intelligent conversation.

Something you clearly don't, EA. Those terms apply to end mills when
using the side of the cutter. Applied to a circular saw blade, they're
just meaningless technobabble used to weakly obfuscate your ignorance.

He's just trolling without knowing he's a troll. It happens. His
blind spot is in believing that he has information instead of going to
look for it. If he'd said that the Dual Saw looks like a piece of
crap and asked for input he might have gotten something out of the
thread, and I probably would have agreed with him and pointed out the
disconcerting number of people who report burning the motor out in
short order. Instead he extrapolates to a universal to form his
opinion, makes outlandish and erroneous claims, and deftly
demonstrates that he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.

There's really nothing new about the technology. I don't recall who
said that they didn't see the counter rotating blade technology used
in rescue operations, and that if they were, they couldn't be corded,
but...
http://www.weber.de/wr/en/rettungsge...e-2326-set.php
and for the ICE crowd.
http://www.weber.de/wr/en/rettungsge...f-4030-set.php

Someone who had seen the Dual Saw infomercial might have recalled that
the 'inventor' was a Euro firefighter. The odds of him having seen
something similar to the Dual Saw on the job were pretty good, and
saying "patented technology" doesn't mean the whole tool is patented.
Maybe the guy's contribution was to patent an affordable modification
that allowed the expensive tool to be mass-produced for the consumer
market.

In any event, the OP didn't bother to look, clearly doesn't understand
basic vector physics, and spouts off about something he's never
touched. The old saying "throwing the baby out with the bath water"
seems to be the OP's standard operating procedure.

R

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:

Next, when you grok the difference between a "conventional cut" and a
"climb
cut", post back -- maybe then we can have an intelligent conversation.

Something you clearly don't, EA. Those terms apply to end mills when
using the side of the cutter. Applied to a circular saw blade, they're
just meaningless technobabble used to weakly obfuscate your ignorance.

Uh, I am *not* going to get into this argument, but climb cutting and
conventional cutting apply to many types of cutting tools, including saw
blades. In fact, in production woodworking, there are ripping saws that
operate in the climb mode for the express purpose of avoiding tear-out. They
require fancy hold-downs and feed mechanisms for the workpieces, so they
don't go flying out of the saw. I've seen them, and I've written about them,
and I've had discussions with the blade makers about the differences in the
two types of blades.

--
Ed Huntress

On Dec 11, 12:45*pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
And what "claim" would that be?

This one:

On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


I caught a thread on rec.woodworking, and apparently a lot of people who
should know better don't know how to use a circular saw, and/or just don't
get the concept..
A very sophisticated mechanism, that accomplishes.... what????

On Dec 15, 10:15*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message
In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:

Next, when you grok the difference between a "conventional cut" and a
"climb
cut", post back -- maybe then we can have an intelligent conversation.

Something you clearly don't, EA. Those terms apply to end mills when
using the side of the cutter. Applied to a circular saw blade, they're
just meaningless technobabble used to weakly obfuscate your ignorance.

Uh, I am *not* going to get into this argument, but climb cutting and
conventional cutting apply to many types of cutting tools, including saw
blades. In fact, in production woodworking, there are ripping saws that
operate in the climb mode for the express purpose of avoiding tear-out. They
require fancy hold-downs and feed mechanisms for the workpieces, so they
don't go flying out of the saw. I've seen them, and I've written about them,
and I've had discussions with the blade makers about the differences in the
two types of blades.

Interesting. I've never heard of such a thing with a saw blade, and
DAGS to see if there was such a beast as a circular saw climb cut -
the search didn't turn up a single example in the first two pages of
results. Can you post a link to a climb cutting machine or something
you wrote about it?

In the machines you're talking about, the workpiece/sawblade is moving
in the opposite direction to the normal direction of movement. With
the Dual Saw type of saws, one of the counter rotating blades is
always moving opposite the 'normal' direction of movement - and in
fact that that is the primary reason the tool can get away without
hold downs and feed mechanisms (equal and opposite canceling and all
of that), and the reason that the tool shouldn't grab and kick, it
seems to me that the tool isn't climb cutting, so much as just
cutting. The adjectives canceled out. So is there really a climb cut
in such a tool?

R

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:

Next, when you grok the difference between a "conventional cut" and a
"climb
cut", post back -- maybe then we can have an intelligent conversation.

Something you clearly don't, EA. Those terms apply to end mills when
using the side of the cutter. Applied to a circular saw blade, they're
just meaningless technobabble used to weakly obfuscate your ignorance.

Really? Google "climb cut" RAS.
The very first hit:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas...w_Cutting.html

Comment from contributor D:
There is only one really safe way to cross cut on a RAS - by putting the
stock against the fence and then pulling the yoke and blade towards you.
This is, technically, a climb cut since you're feeding the blade to the
stock in the same direction the blade is rotating. Yes, the blade can
"climb" into the stock and the motor can jerk towards the operator. However,
that's why you should pull the yoke through the stock with a bit of a "stiff
arm" (so to speak), to minimize motor movement should this happen.

Who's ignerint now?

AND, btw, this explains but another lie on the dualsaw mis-infomercial: You
CAN cut in either direction with a circular saw (backwards would be climb),
you just gotta be careful, and use a "stiff arm". Not recommended, of
course.

And, indeed, the dual saw DOES facilitate this bi-directional cutting, but
it is an utterly trivial feature. They also strongly imply that *because*
of the opposite blade rotation, the dual saw can plunge cut and a circular
saw can't. Carpenters plunge cut every day with circular saws. Sheeit,
you can plunge cut with a recip saw, if you know what yer doin.

Well, *I* can plunge cut with recip saw..... clearly YOU can't.....



Btw, I disagree mightily with Contributor D:

Climb cuttung, as he correctly describes, indeed requires a "stiff arm",
and is thusly a very big pita for thick material. Otoh, Push cutting
(conventional) imo is MUCH preferred on an RAS, and safer. And *easier*.

Conventional cut is, of course, how one uses a table saw or circular saw.

Otoh, machinists generally prefer milling in climb, altho material and
tooling can vary the equation -- strangely, I've had much better finishes in
some mateials using conventional finish cuts... but, gee, look who I'm
talking to.....

Any questions?

Oh, btw, I need not have even googled or cited anything, as the "physics"
that yer ignerint buddee RicodJour refers to is self-evident, and I could
have argued this from geometry alone. Too much work, tho, and no doubt
futile for you and yer dualsaw buddee, so I did the google for you.. I'm
sure the folks on rec.woodworking can help you out further, if you are still
in your chronic daze.

--
EA

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:

Next, when you grok the difference between a "conventional cut" and a
"climb
cut", post back -- maybe then we can have an intelligent conversation.

Something you clearly don't, EA. Those terms apply to end mills when
using the side of the cutter. Applied to a circular saw blade, they're
just meaningless technobabble used to weakly obfuscate your ignorance.

Uh, I am *not* going to get into this argument, but climb cutting and
conventional cutting apply to many types of cutting tools, including saw
blades. In fact, in production woodworking, there are ripping saws that
operate in the climb mode for the express purpose of avoiding tear-out.
They require fancy hold-downs and feed mechanisms for the workpieces, so
they don't go flying out of the saw. I've seen them, and I've written
about them, and I've had discussions with the blade makers about the
differences in the two types of blades.

Well, you are talking geometry to two assholes with cataracts bigger than a
golf ball.

Note, however, that RAS's climb cut de rigeur.... even tho, as I stated
previously, climb cutting on thick material in a RAS is a pita.
--
EA





--
Ed Huntress

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Dec 15, 10:15 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message
In article ,
"Existential Angst" wrote:

Next, when you grok the difference between a "conventional cut" and a
"climb
cut", post back -- maybe then we can have an intelligent conversation.

Something you clearly don't, EA. Those terms apply to end mills when
using the side of the cutter. Applied to a circular saw blade, they're
just meaningless technobabble used to weakly obfuscate your ignorance.

Uh, I am *not* going to get into this argument, but climb cutting and
conventional cutting apply to many types of cutting tools, including saw
blades. In fact, in production woodworking, there are ripping saws that
operate in the climb mode for the express purpose of avoiding tear-out.
They
require fancy hold-downs and feed mechanisms for the workpieces, so they
don't go flying out of the saw. I've seen them, and I've written about
them,
and I've had discussions with the blade makers about the differences in
the
two types of blades.

Interesting. I've never heard of such a thing with a saw blade, and
DAGS to see if there was such a beast as a circular saw climb cut -
the search didn't turn up a single example in the first two pages of
results. Can you post a link to a climb cutting machine or something
you wrote about it?

I knew you'd ask that. g It was between 20 and 25 years ago; the story was
about using wirecut EDM to shape sinterred diamond compacts on the cutters
used in both metalworking (a minor use) and woodworking (the major use),
particularly on commercial spindle-shapers and routers. The discussion about
saw blades was peripheral to the subject, because EDM isn't used to shape
the edges of those.

All I can recall is this: In production rip-sawing, the issue is how the
cutter *exits* the cut, rather than how it enters. Apparently -- and this is
from memory -- saw blades used in commercial ripping just barely extend
through the top of the cut, so the re-entry isn't an issue. On the top side
of the work, it's almost the same whether you consider it climb- or
conventional-cutting. But it makes a big difference when the blade finally
leaves the bottom of the cut. If it's cutting when it comes out of the
workpiece, it's going to tear the edges of the cut, as any hobbyist
woodworker knows from conventional work with a table saw. In the discussion,
running the blade in the reverse direction of what most of us condider the
"conventional" one, in which the blade exits the work "not cutting," was
what they were calling "climb cutting," and apparently that's the preferred
mode for production. It requires friction drive and hold-down rollers; the
work is fed under power.

BTW, some commercial saws operate upside-down, with the blade(s) above the
work, so you might have to reverse "up" and "down" from this discussion.
That may just be for multi-blade ripping of lumber; I've never actually seen
one of those saws.

I never got involved in studying production woodworking except for that
single application, and it was because I covered tooling for a couple of
metalworking magazines and I had a client who made special wire EDMs for
that work, when I wasn't a staff editor.

Sorry I can't refer you to my article. That old stuff isn't archived online
and I wrote over 350 articles about metalworking and tooling, so I don't
remember where it ran.

In the machines you're talking about, the workpiece/sawblade is moving
in the opposite direction to the normal direction of movement. With
the Dual Saw type of saws, one of the counter rotating blades is
always moving opposite the 'normal' direction of movement - and in
fact that that is the primary reason the tool can get away without
hold downs and feed mechanisms (equal and opposite canceling and all
of that), and the reason that the tool shouldn't grab and kick, it
seems to me that the tool isn't climb cutting, so much as just
cutting. The adjectives canceled out. So is there really a climb cut
in such a tool?

A good question; I don't know about those saws. I hesitated to jump in here
at all, except to point out that there is something that is, or was, called
"climb cutting" in production sawing, and that it's similar to what we mean
by the term in metalworking, with milling cutters.

I will now go back to my nap. g

--
Ed Huntress