i have to re stain a wooden front door that has been baked by the sun to
the point that the stain behind the window in the storm door is a
grayish color with a couple of good sized(4-5 inches long) cracks in the
wood. the part of the door that is shaded by the bottom half of the
storm door is in okay shape. i am planning on sanding the door with my
palm sander but i am unsure about staining or varnishing after
sanding..what is the difference between the two, also, it is an exterior
door(with a storm door)how many coats? should i try stripping the
existing stain vs. sanding?
thanks, cj

"cj" wrote in message
...
i have to re stain a wooden front door that has been baked by the sun to
the point that the stain behind the window in the storm door is a grayish
color with a couple of good sized(4-5 inches long) cracks in the wood. the
part of the door that is shaded by the bottom half of the storm door is in
okay shape. i am planning on sanding the door with my palm sander but i am
unsure about staining or varnishing after sanding..what is the difference
between the two, also, it is an exterior door(with a storm door)how many
coats? should i try stripping the existing stain vs. sanding?
thanks, cj

Staining adds color and is absorbed a bit by the wood. Varnishing is a
protective top coat. When you varnish, look for something with UV
inhibitors, such as Min Wax Helmsman poly.

Sanding is good for the spot where nothing is left, but you may want to
strip if in bad shape, such as cracking, checking, peeling. I'd put three
coats of poly varnish on.

cj wrote:
i have to re stain a wooden front door that has been baked by the sun to
the point that the stain behind the window in the storm door is a
grayish color with a couple of good sized(4-5 inches long) cracks in the
wood. the part of the door that is shaded by the bottom half of the
storm door is in okay shape. i am planning on sanding the door with my
palm sander but i am unsure about staining or varnishing after
sanding..what is the difference between the two, also, it is an exterior
door(with a storm door)how many coats? should i try stripping the
existing stain vs. sanding?
thanks, cj


The stain isn't gray - the wood is oxidized. The difference between
stain and varnish - stain is color only, varnish is a clear coating that
protects the wood. For wood doors with that sort of sun exposure, paint
is a lot better - varnish has a sort of a "greenhouse" effect on wood -
paint will keep sun off wood (in the shade, so to speak). If the cracks
are all the way through the wood, you need to apply a flexible caulk or
filler before finishing. Sand off the gray stuff.

wrote:

The stain isn't gray - the wood is oxidized. The difference between
stain and varnish - stain is color only, varnish is a clear coating
that protects the wood. For wood doors with that sort of sun
exposure, paint is a lot better - varnish has a sort of a
"greenhouse" effect on wood - paint will keep sun off wood (in the
shade, so to speak). If the cracks are all the way through the wood,
you need to apply a flexible caulk or filler before finishing. Sand
off the gray stuff.

And be careful what kind of varnish or clear top coat you put over what kind
of stain. I recently managed to put my foot in the paint can (so to speak)
putting clear polyurethane over oil-based stain--oops. Paint sounds like a
better idea unless for some reason you want some grain showing through.

i have to re stain a wooden front door that has been baked by the sun
to the point that the stain behind the window in the storm door is a
grayish color with a couple of good sized(4-5 inches long) cracks in
the wood. the part of the door that is shaded by the bottom half of
the storm door is in okay shape. i am planning on sanding the door
with my palm sander but i am unsure about staining or varnishing
after sanding..what is the difference between the two, also, it is an
exterior door(with a storm door)how many coats? should i try
stripping the existing stain vs. sanding? thanks, cj

Unless you sand everything to the same level, you'll have some degree
of color variation. After you do your initial sanding pass, wipe the
door down with mineral spirits. It will color the wood just a little,
giving you an idea of how it will look with finish on it. If you like
the look, go ahead and apply the finish. If not, do more sanding.

I recommend a spar varnish or spar polyurethane. "Spar" means the
finish is appropriate for use on a boat's spar, which bends a lot, and
the finish is flexible. A door that gets direct sun changes size during
the day, so a flexible finish is a good thing. Also check for UV
resistance.

There is no permanent finish for exterior wood. They all have to be
redone regularly. The best advice I've gotten, especially for
west-facing doors, is to use a penetrating oil finish instead of a
film-forming finish. With the oils, you just paint on another coat
every six to twelve months. With film finishes, you have to sand or
strip first.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA

On May 3, 5:12*pm, cj wrote:
i have to re stain a wooden front door that has been baked by the sun to
the point that the stain behind the window in the storm door is a
grayish color with a couple of good sized(4-5 inches long) cracks in the
wood. the part of the door that is shaded by the bottom half of the
storm door is in okay shape. i am planning on sanding the door with my
palm sander but i am unsure about staining or varnishing after
sanding..what is the difference between the two, also, it is an exterior
door(with a storm door)how many coats? should i try stripping the
existing stain vs. sanding?
thanks, cj

Redoing exterior doors is not simple and to much to go into without
seeing it, if its a quality door, I used to spend 50-100 hrs restoring
one door and I did maybe 30 of them. You need to strip it, sand it to
new wood, and use a Marine finish if you want it to last, go to a real
paint store to talk about it and read up, it can be a big job, even
get bids from pros.

"DGDevin" wrote in message
And be careful what kind of varnish or clear top coat you put over what
kind of stain. I recently managed to put my foot in the paint can (so to
speak) putting clear polyurethane over oil-based stain--oops. Paint
sounds like a better idea unless for some reason you want some grain
showing through.

I've done that hundreds of times, as have tens of thousands of others.
What was the problem?

cj wrote:
i have to re stain a wooden front door that has been baked by the sun to
the point that the stain behind the window in the storm door is a
grayish color with a couple of good sized(4-5 inches long) cracks in the
wood. the part of the door that is shaded by the bottom half of the
storm door is in okay shape. i am planning on sanding the door with my
palm sander but i am unsure about staining or varnishing after
sanding..what is the difference between the two, also, it is an exterior
door(with a storm door)how many coats? should i try stripping the
existing stain vs. sanding?
thanks, cj
Aside from any other comments you might consider getting a sun shielding
film for the glass in the storm door.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

And be careful what kind of varnish or clear top coat you put over
what kind of stain. I recently managed to put my foot in the paint
can (so to speak) putting clear polyurethane over oil-based
stain--oops. Paint sounds like a better idea unless for some reason
you want some grain showing through.

I've done that hundreds of times, as have tens of thousands of others.
What was the problem?

It turned into a blotchy milky film, when I mentioned it to someone at the
local Woodcraft he said he'd seen similar results before. The humidity
wasn't high, I let the Minwax oil stain dry between applications and let the
last one sit for a couple of days before putting on the Lawrence-McFadden
poly. Of course with my generalized woodworking ignorance there could well
be other factors I'm unaware of (that's usually a safe bet).

On May 4, 10:47*am, "DGDevin" wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
And be careful what kind of varnish or clear top coat you put over
what kind of stain. *I recently managed to put my foot in the paint
can (so to speak) putting clear polyurethane over oil-based
stain--oops. *Paint sounds like a better idea unless for some reason
you want some grain showing through.

I've done that hundreds of times, as have tens of thousands of others.
What was the problem?

It turned into a blotchy milky film, when I mentioned it to someone at the
local Woodcraft he said he'd seen similar results before. *The humidity
wasn't high, I let the Minwax oil stain dry between applications and let the
last one sit for a couple of days before putting on the Lawrence-McFadden
poly. *Of course with my generalized woodworking ignorance there could well
be other factors I'm unaware of (that's usually a safe bet).

The easiest thing to do after sanding is painting, That way you have
no problems with the various absorption rates for the stain in the
different parts of the old wood.

hr(bob) wrote:

I've done that hundreds of times, as have tens of thousands of
others. What was the problem?

It turned into a blotchy milky film, when I mentioned it to someone
at the local Woodcraft he said he'd seen similar results before. The
humidity wasn't high, I let the Minwax oil stain dry between
applications and let the last one sit for a couple of days before
putting on the Lawrence-McFadden poly. Of course with my generalized
woodworking ignorance there could well be other factors I'm unaware
of (that's usually a safe bet).

The easiest thing to do after sanding is painting, That way you have
no problems with the various absorption rates for the stain in the
different parts of the old wood.

If I didn't want the inherent beauty of wood visible I'd make stuff out of
plastic. I used a pre-stain too, and the stain looked fine until the poly
went on. Ah well, it's all educational, this one will be a lesson in
*re*-finishing. ;~)

hr(bob) wrote:
On May 4, 10:47 am, "DGDevin" wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

And be careful what kind of varnish or clear top coat you put over
what kind of stain. I recently managed to put my foot in the paint
can (so to speak) putting clear polyurethane over oil-based
stain--oops. Paint sounds like a better idea unless for some reason
you want some grain showing through.

I've done that hundreds of times, as have tens of thousands of others.
What was the problem?

It turned into a blotchy milky film, when I mentioned it to someone at the
local Woodcraft he said he'd seen similar results before. The humidity
wasn't high, I let the Minwax oil stain dry between applications and let the
last one sit for a couple of days before putting on the Lawrence-McFadden
poly. Of course with my generalized woodworking ignorance there could well
be other factors I'm unaware of (that's usually a safe bet).


The easiest thing to do after sanding is painting, That way you have
no problems with the various absorption rates for the stain in the
different parts of the old wood.

----------------------------------------

Being in the epoxy business, I've seen the same. Think one needs to let
the stains (oil or water) dry/cure for more than just a few days (say -
guess - 1 or 2 weeks) before topcoating with anything.

paul oman

Paul Oman wrote:

It turned into a blotchy milky film, when I mentioned it to someone
at the local Woodcraft he said he'd seen similar results before. The
humidity wasn't high, I let the Minwax oil stain dry between
applications and let the last one sit for a couple of days before
putting on the Lawrence-McFadden poly. Of course with my
generalized woodworking ignorance there could well be other factors
I'm unaware of (that's usually a safe bet).

Being in the epoxy business, I've seen the same. Think one needs to
let the stains (oil or water) dry/cure for more than just a few days
(say - guess - 1 or 2 weeks) before topcoating with anything.

paul oman

Thanks, that's useful info. I'm going to sand and start over, and use a gel
urethane stain from the beginning which is what I should have done to start
with. I'll bill myself by the hour on this job, I'll be rich! Errr, wait a
minute....

On May 4, 1:56*pm, Paul Oman wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:
On May 4, 10:47 am, "DGDevin" wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

And be careful what kind of varnish or clear top coat you put over
what kind of stain. *I recently managed to put my foot in the paint
can (so to speak) putting clear polyurethane over oil-based
stain--oops. *Paint sounds like a better idea unless for some reason
you want some grain showing through.

I've done that hundreds of times, as have tens of thousands of others..
What was the problem?

It turned into a blotchy milky film, when I mentioned it to someone at the
local Woodcraft he said he'd seen similar results before. *The humidity
wasn't high, I let the Minwax oil stain dry between applications and let the
last one sit for a couple of days before putting on the Lawrence-McFadden
poly. *Of course with my generalized woodworking ignorance there could well
be other factors I'm unaware of (that's usually a safe bet).

The easiest thing to do after sanding is painting, *That way you have
no problems with the various absorption rates for the stain in the
different parts of the old wood.

----------------------------------------

Being in the epoxy business, I've seen the same. Think one needs to let
the stains (oil or water) dry/cure for more than just a few days (say -
guess - 1 or 2 weeks) before topcoating with anything.

I don't think the amine blush you seem to be referring to is the same
as what happened to DGDevin. Amine blush is due to high ambient
humidity while the epoxy is curing. http://www.epoxyproducts.com/blush4u.html

Minwax recommends an eight hour drying time with their normal stain if
it's topcoated with some of their products and 24 hours if their
Polycrylic topcoat is used.

"CLEAR FINISH APPLICATION:
* After a minimum of 8 hours, apply a clear, protective finish
such as Minwax® Fast-Drying Polyurethane, Minwax® Helmsman® Spar
Urethane or after 24 hours, apply clear Minwax® Polycrylic® Protective
Finish."

DGDevin didn't give any details about what the conditions were,
temperature, whether the door was removed, if the stain was new or
old, etc. There's usually no problem putting a polyurethane finish
over oil stain, and Minwax wouldn't lowball the drying time by a
factor of ten or more. There's no point in them lowballing the drying
time at all.

Minwax has no problem with water-based clear finishes over oil
stains....their oil stains and their clear finishes. If you start
mixing manufacturers all bets are off and you'll have to make some
test samples. From Minwax's site:

"Q: Where can I use Water Based Polyurethane?
Water Based Polyurethane is ideal for use on all interior bare or
stained wood surfaces sincluding furniture, cabinets, doors and
floors. It can be applied over oil-based stains like Minwax® Wood
Finish or Minwax® Gel Stain. It also can be applied over Minwax® Water-
Based Wood Stain wood tones, provided the stain has dried completely."

And this about their gel stains:
"Do not apply a protective clear finish if the last coat of Minwax®
Gel Stain can be removed with a rag moistened with mineral spirits."

R

On Mon, 04 May 2009 13:56:53 -0400, Paul Oman
wrote:

hr(bob) wrote:
On May 4, 10:47 am, "DGDevin" wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

And be careful what kind of varnish or clear top coat you put over
what kind of stain. I recently managed to put my foot in the paint
can (so to speak) putting clear polyurethane over oil-based
stain--oops. Paint sounds like a better idea unless for some reason
you want some grain showing through.

I've done that hundreds of times, as have tens of thousands of others.
What was the problem?

It turned into a blotchy milky film, when I mentioned it to someone at the
local Woodcraft he said he'd seen similar results before. The humidity
wasn't high, I let the Minwax oil stain dry between applications and let the
last one sit for a couple of days before putting on the Lawrence-McFadden
poly. Of course with my generalized woodworking ignorance there could well
be other factors I'm unaware of (that's usually a safe bet).


The easiest thing to do after sanding is painting, That way you have
no problems with the various absorption rates for the stain in the
different parts of the old wood.

----------------------------------------

Being in the epoxy business, I've seen the same. Think one needs to let
the stains (oil or water) dry/cure for more than just a few days (say -
guess - 1 or 2 weeks) before topcoating with anything.

paul oman
Use a poly stain (all-in-one) finish first, then put a poly spar on
it.