What is the general consensus regarding the purchase of reconditioned tools
vs. new? Yes, I know new is new but I see most, if not all, manufacturers
offer the complete warranty and incentives with a reconditioned tool as you
would a new. Of course, name brand is a consideration, therefore, let's
assume it's a name brand item such as Dewalt, Ridgid, Delta, Bosch, PC,
Milwaukee, Makita and so on. but not interested in Ryobi, Craftsman, Stanley
and Skil, though, they may have some higher end tools, I prefer what the
pros use. Therefore, would you purchase a reconditioned tool?

"SBH" wrote in message
...
What is the general consensus regarding the purchase of reconditioned
tools vs. new? Yes, I know new is new but I see most, if not all,
manufacturers offer the complete warranty and incentives with a
reconditioned tool as you would a new. Of course, name brand is a
consideration, therefore, let's assume it's a name brand item such as
Dewalt, Ridgid, Delta, Bosch, PC, Milwaukee, Makita and so on. but not
interested in Ryobi, Craftsman, Stanley and Skil, though, they may have
some higher end tools, I prefer what the pros use. Therefore, would you
purchase a reconditioned tool?


*I purchased a Bosch RotoZip last year from Amazon. The price was good and
I got some good accessories with it. I bought a recon because I knew I
would only be using it about once a year. So far no complaints.

On Apr 6, 4:22*pm, "SBH" wrote:
What is the general consensus regarding the purchase of reconditioned tools
vs. new? Yes, I know new is new but I see most, if not all, manufacturers
offer the complete warranty and incentives with a reconditioned tool as you
would a new. Of course, name brand is a consideration, therefore, let's
assume it's a name brand item such as Dewalt, Ridgid, Delta, Bosch, PC,
Milwaukee, Makita and so on. but not interested in Ryobi, Craftsman, Stanley
and Skil, though, they may have some higher end tools, I prefer what the
pros use. Therefore, would you purchase a reconditioned tool?

Absolutely. Often the the refurbs are tools off the production line
that had some minor fault. Others may be brand new superceded models.
CPO is one company that does refurbs and new. The Bosch power hand saw
I bought there a couple months ago had no signs at all of ever having
been used. My suggestion is to compare Amazon for new with CPO for
refurb and choose wisely.

Joe

SBH wrote:
What is the general consensus regarding the purchase of reconditioned tools
vs. new? Yes, I know new is new but I see most, if not all, manufacturers
offer the complete warranty and incentives with a reconditioned tool as you
would a new. Of course, name brand is a consideration, therefore, let's
assume it's a name brand item such as Dewalt, Ridgid, Delta, Bosch, PC,
Milwaukee, Makita and so on. but not interested in Ryobi, Craftsman, Stanley
and Skil, though, they may have some higher end tools, I prefer what the
pros use. Therefore, would you purchase a reconditioned tool?



I only have one data point; I bought a 3/8" DeWalt drill reconditioned,
and I've been impressed with the little thing. It's handy when I just
have a small job to do and don't want to break out the big Milwaukee.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

In article , says...
What is the general consensus regarding the purchase of reconditioned tools
vs. new? Yes, I know new is new but I see most, if not all, manufacturers
offer the complete warranty and incentives with a reconditioned tool as you
would a new. Of course, name brand is a consideration, therefore, let's
assume it's a name brand item such as Dewalt, Ridgid, Delta, Bosch, PC,
Milwaukee, Makita and so on. but not interested in Ryobi, Craftsman, Stanley
and Skil, though, they may have some higher end tools, I prefer what the
pros use. Therefore, would you purchase a reconditioned tool?


When purchased from the manufacturer this way, reconditioned does not mean
"used". How would they even get hundreds or thousands of one model of tool to
resell?

It means they were pulled from the warehouse and a certain part checked or
replaced in most cases. Once they were packaged for sale, they generally
cannot be opened, checked, repacked and sold as new. If anything, they are
*better* than the ones that are already sold.

It can also mean they wish to start marketing an updated model.

Most of my major power tools are recons. They have all functioned perfectly
for years.



--
Dennis

DT wrote:

-snip-
When purchased from the manufacturer this way, reconditioned does not mean
"used". How would they even get hundreds or thousands of one model of tool to
resell?

It means they were pulled from the warehouse and a certain part checked or
replaced in most cases. Once they were packaged for sale, they generally
cannot be opened, checked, repacked and sold as new. If anything, they are
*better* than the ones that are already sold.

For tools, & most major appliances I agree. I've bought tons of
refurbs & never gotten stung.

Electronics are a different animal- I would only buy them as refurbs
after I was sure their warranty was as good as stated.

Jim
[my latest refurb was a Bosch compound miter saw. Cheaper than the
used ones on ebay/craigslist- and good as new AFAICT.]

SBH wrote:
What is the general consensus regarding the purchase of reconditioned tools
vs. new? Yes, I know new is new but I see most, if not all, manufacturers
offer the complete warranty and incentives with a reconditioned tool as you
would a new. Of course, name brand is a consideration, therefore, let's
assume it's a name brand item such as Dewalt, Ridgid, Delta, Bosch, PC,
Milwaukee, Makita and so on. but not interested in Ryobi, Craftsman, Stanley
and Skil, though, they may have some higher end tools, I prefer what the
pros use. Therefore, would you purchase a reconditioned tool?



Depends on what it is, what the discount is, and where you buy it. I'd
never touch a reconditioned from a civilian outlet like Big Lots,
because it is most likely a service return that may or may not have been
properly repaired. But from the manufacturer's own 'factory outlet' (if
I was sure it in fact was such), probably. Mostly depends on how much of
a price break, on how expensive a tool. On a hundred-dollar tool, I
won't risk my time for ten bucks discount. If it is several hundred, and
the discount is a hundred, it looks like a better gamble. A key factor
to consider is the risk if it fails- is this for personal or hobby use,
or do you use it to put bread on the table, and customers will be
standing there tapping their foot if it fails? Not always a deal
breaker, if you KNOW you can immediately run out to the Borg or Sears
and buy a replacement if needed, and write it off to the luck of the draw.

All of the above applies if you are buying tools for yourself. If you
are providing tools to a crew, best to regard them as consumables, and
buy 'good enough'. More will grow legs or get abused to death, than have
actual quality failures. IMHO, 'must provide own tools' (other than real
high-dollar specialty tools) is the way to go with mobile employees.
Gives them an incentive to treat them well and keep track of them, even
if you have to pay the employee a little more.

--
aem sends...

"SBH" wrote in message
...
I prefer what the pros use. Therefore, would you purchase a
reconditioned tool?


If your store sold DeWalt drills for $150, would you be PO'd if DW sold them
direct for $90? Sure you would. So, they call them reconditioned and you
can't complain. I'd say 95% or more are brand new, just marked recon to sell
at a factory outlet price.

On Apr 6, 5:22*pm, "SBH" wrote:
What is the general consensus regarding the purchase of reconditioned tools
vs. new? Yes, I know new is new but I see most, if not all, manufacturers
offer the complete warranty and incentives with a reconditioned tool as you
would a new. Of course, name brand is a consideration, therefore, let's
assume it's a name brand item such as Dewalt, Ridgid, Delta, Bosch, PC,
Milwaukee, Makita and so on. but not interested in Ryobi, Craftsman, Stanley
and Skil, though, they may have some higher end tools, I prefer what the
pros use. Therefore, would you purchase a reconditioned tool?

My father in law was a professional machinist and woodworker. He
swore by refurbished tools. He felt that the refurbished tools were
better because they had the careful going over that new tools didnt
receive.He may have not been right on this count but I never saw
anything that proved him wrong in his collection of tools.

JImmie

JIMMIE wrote:

On Apr 6, 5:22Â*pm, "SBH" wrote:
What is the general consensus regarding the purchase of reconditioned
tools vs. new? Yes, I know new is new but I see most, if not all,
manufacturers offer the complete warranty and incentives with a
reconditioned tool as you would a new. Of course, name brand is a
consideration, therefore, let's assume it's a name brand item such as
Dewalt, Ridgid, Delta, Bosch, PC, Milwaukee, Makita and so on. but not
interested in Ryobi, Craftsman, Stanley and Skil, though, they may have
some higher end tools, I prefer what the pros use. Therefore, would you
purchase a reconditioned tool?

My father in law was a professional machinist and woodworker. He
swore by refurbished tools. He felt that the refurbished tools were
better because they had the careful going over that new tools didnt
receive.He may have not been right on this count but I never saw
anything that proved him wrong in his collection of tools.

JImmie
I purposely look for reconditioned tools. Ive had nothing but good luck with
them. Bought a reconditioned 14.4 Porter Cable hammer/driver cordless 7
years ago and it was my best drill. It was stolen 3 weeks ago and I was
****ED!!! I went to get another and they have stopped offering them. But
after looking at the new PC's I bought a Milwaukee. Smaller and lighter!

Rich
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:34:34 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

My father in law was a professional machinist and woodworker. He
swore by refurbished tools. He felt that the refurbished tools were
better because they had the careful going over that new tools didnt
receive.He may have not been right on this count but I never saw
anything that proved him wrong in his collection of tools.

Your father-in-law is/was right: all the refurbished and
reconditioned stuff is actually checked over, unlike the brand new
stuff, which is spot checked during manufacture. Refurbished is a
great way to buy electronics at a much more reasonable price with a
fair warranty (think Apple products).

In article ,
KLS wrote:

On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:34:34 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

My father in law was a professional machinist and woodworker. He
swore by refurbished tools. He felt that the refurbished tools were
better because they had the careful going over that new tools didnt
receive.He may have not been right on this count but I never saw
anything that proved him wrong in his collection of tools.

Your father-in-law is/was right: all the refurbished and
reconditioned stuff is actually checked over, unlike the brand new
stuff, which is spot checked during manufacture. Refurbished is a
great way to buy electronics at a much more reasonable price with a
fair warranty (think Apple products).

Others have vouched for reconditioned tools, but I would *never* buy
reconditioned consumer electronics. Too many problems are intermittent,
and the so-called repair doesn't actually fix them.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
KLS wrote:

On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:34:34 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

My father in law was a professional machinist and woodworker. He
swore by refurbished tools. He felt that the refurbished tools were
better because they had the careful going over that new tools didnt
receive.He may have not been right on this count but I never saw
anything that proved him wrong in his collection of tools.
Your father-in-law is/was right: all the refurbished and
reconditioned stuff is actually checked over, unlike the brand new
stuff, which is spot checked during manufacture. Refurbished is a
great way to buy electronics at a much more reasonable price with a
fair warranty (think Apple products).

Others have vouched for reconditioned tools, but I would *never* buy
reconditioned consumer electronics. Too many problems are intermittent,
and the so-called repair doesn't actually fix them.

Computers are often a very GOOD buy cause there was/is nothing wrong
physically - problem was the user.

On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 19:35:19 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

-snip-
Others have vouched for reconditioned tools, but I would *never* buy
reconditioned consumer electronics. Too many problems are intermittent,
and the so-called repair doesn't actually fix them.

I'm with Smitty on this one. If the return policy was easy, or the
company had a reputation for really good service- and if the price was
good enough to warrant the risk, then I'd go for it.

But I learned the lesson with a refurb Sony computer. Happy to say
that after Sony sent me a new drive and I installed it- then sent me a
new stick of RAM and I installed it- they sent out a guy who replaced
the motherboard & all the cards. The process took about 2 weeks and a
several hours of aggravation.

Kudos to Sony service- [this was 12yrs ago so I can't say how it rates
today] but it makes me real wary of electronic refurbs.

Jim

On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 10:29:38 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 19:35:19 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

-snip-
Others have vouched for reconditioned tools, but I would *never* buy
reconditioned consumer electronics. Too many problems are intermittent,
and the so-called repair doesn't actually fix them.

I'm with Smitty on this one. If the return policy was easy, or the
company had a reputation for really good service- and if the price was
good enough to warrant the risk, then I'd go for it.

But I learned the lesson with a refurb Sony computer. Happy to say
that after Sony sent me a new drive and I installed it- then sent me a

You would have learned the same lesson with a new computer. In fact,
you probably would have been at greater risk with all the components
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.

AZ Nomad wrote:

-snip-
You would have learned the same lesson with a new computer. In fact,
you probably would have been at greater risk with all the components
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.

I disagree here and that's what makes them a bad risk for refurbs.
Electronics failures are often the result of a specific temperature,
or a slight flexing of the part. If they don't hit that temp, or
get picked up just right in the shop, the refurb will be a failure.

My SONY tower that I referenced was fine until the room reached 74-
then it crashed. Open it up & it would cool off enough to work. A
new motherboard 7 cards cured it.

Daughter's Dell laptop was fine for a year- then began to have a
multitude of problems that were cured with a new motherboard from
Dell.

The HP I'm using was fine for 18months- then began to have weird
symptoms after it heated up a bit. Again, a warranty replacement of
the motherboard fixed it.

Electroniics fail in weird and wonderful ways.

Jim

On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:18:50 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:

-snip-
You would have learned the same lesson with a new computer. In fact,
you probably would have been at greater risk with all the components
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.

I disagree here and that's what makes them a bad risk for refurbs.
Electronics failures are often the result of a specific temperature,
or a slight flexing of the part. If they don't hit that temp, or
get picked up just right in the shop, the refurb will be a failure.

My SONY tower that I referenced was fine until the room reached 74-
then it crashed. Open it up & it would cool off enough to work. A
new motherboard 7 cards cured it.

and a newly assembled one would be any better, how?



Daughter's Dell laptop was fine for a year- then began to have a
multitude of problems that were cured with a new motherboard from
Dell.
and a newly assembled one would be better, how?

AZ Nomad wrote:

On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:18:50 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:

-snip-
-snip-
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.

I disagree here and that's what makes them a bad risk for refurbs.
Electronics failures are often the result of a specific temperature,
or a slight flexing of the part. If they don't hit that temp, or
get picked up just right in the shop, the refurb will be a failure.

My SONY tower that I referenced was fine until the room reached 74-
then it crashed. Open it up & it would cool off enough to work. A
new motherboard 7 cards cured it.

and a newly assembled one would be any better, how?

Wouldn't be. But my point was to refute your contention that
electronics don't regularly fail in the course of service.


Daughter's Dell laptop was fine for a year- then began to have a
multitude of problems that were cured with a new motherboard from
Dell.
and a newly assembled one would be better, how?

This one *was* new- as was the HP. But neither were defective for
several months.

Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:

-snip-
You would have learned the same lesson with a new computer. In fact,
you probably would have been at greater risk with all the components
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.

I disagree here and that's what makes them a bad risk for refurbs.
Electronics failures are often the result of a specific temperature,
or a slight flexing of the part. If they don't hit that temp, or
get picked up just right in the shop, the refurb will be a failure.

My SONY tower that I referenced was fine until the room reached 74-
then it crashed. Open it up & it would cool off enough to work. A
new motherboard 7 cards cured it.

Daughter's Dell laptop was fine for a year- then began to have a
multitude of problems that were cured with a new motherboard from
Dell.

The HP I'm using was fine for 18months- then began to have weird
symptoms after it heated up a bit. Again, a warranty replacement of
the motherboard fixed it.

Electroniics fail in weird and wonderful ways.

Jim

That's why the very expensive aerospace/military electronics
gear is so costly. A lot of those systems are stress tested
or burn in before turning them over to the customer. When I
was rebuilding communications gear, my coworkers freaked out
when I would slam a piece of equipment down on the workbench.
I finally convinced them that it was going to get treated a
lot rougher in the field. I had a transistor act like an LC
network in a circuit one time, it was a very strange malfunction.
The transistor was fine with DC as a simple switch but as soon
as RF hit it it would transform into something evil. I've seen
all sorts of odd thermal intermittent failures in electronics
over the years and the one that had me pulling my hair out was
the Hall Effect sensor inside the distributor on my van's V8.
It would start and run when cold or hot but not when slightly
warm. I'm glad for the diagnostics in the engine computer.
Most of the malfunctions I come across these days are caused
by simple cold solder joints rather than component failure.
Unfortunately for the consumer, a lot of things are too costly
to repair because the time of a skilled technician costs more
than the item. So goes modern life.

TDD

On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:02:19 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:

On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:18:50 -0400, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:

-snip-
-snip-
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.

I disagree here and that's what makes them a bad risk for refurbs.
Electronics failures are often the result of a specific temperature,
or a slight flexing of the part. If they don't hit that temp, or
get picked up just right in the shop, the refurb will be a failure.

My SONY tower that I referenced was fine until the room reached 74-
then it crashed. Open it up & it would cool off enough to work. A
new motherboard 7 cards cured it.

and a newly assembled one would be any better, how?

Wouldn't be. But my point was to refute your contention that
electronics don't regularly fail in the course of service.

Good thing I never said that.

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:

-snip-
You would have learned the same lesson with a new computer. In fact,
you probably would have been at greater risk with all the components
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.

I disagree here and that's what makes them a bad risk for refurbs.
Electronics failures are often the result of a specific temperature,
or a slight flexing of the part. If they don't hit that temp, or
get picked up just right in the shop, the refurb will be a failure.

My SONY tower that I referenced was fine until the room reached 74-
then it crashed. Open it up & it would cool off enough to work. A
new motherboard 7 cards cured it.

Daughter's Dell laptop was fine for a year- then began to have a
multitude of problems that were cured with a new motherboard from
Dell.

The HP I'm using was fine for 18months- then began to have weird
symptoms after it heated up a bit. Again, a warranty replacement of
the motherboard fixed it.

Electroniics fail in weird and wonderful ways.

Jim

I've had close visibility of support issues and failures on a group of
about 2000 machines at the place I work, for close to ten years. If I
had 3 motherboards from different vendors go Tango Uniform in the same
residence, I'd suspect dirty power or other local conditions, rather
than poor manufacturing quality. Clusters are seldom random.

--
aem sends...

On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 01:14:29 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:

-snip-
You would have learned the same lesson with a new computer. In fact,
you probably would have been at greater risk with all the components
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.

I disagree here and that's what makes them a bad risk for refurbs.
Electronics failures are often the result of a specific temperature,
or a slight flexing of the part. If they don't hit that temp, or
get picked up just right in the shop, the refurb will be a failure.

My SONY tower that I referenced was fine until the room reached 74-
then it crashed. Open it up & it would cool off enough to work. A
new motherboard 7 cards cured it.

Daughter's Dell laptop was fine for a year- then began to have a
multitude of problems that were cured with a new motherboard from
Dell.

The HP I'm using was fine for 18months- then began to have weird
symptoms after it heated up a bit. Again, a warranty replacement of
the motherboard fixed it.

Electroniics fail in weird and wonderful ways.

Jim

I've had close visibility of support issues and failures on a group of
about 2000 machines at the place I work, for close to ten years. If I
had 3 motherboards from different vendors go Tango Uniform in the same
residence, I'd suspect dirty power or other local conditions, rather
than poor manufacturing quality. Clusters are seldom random.

Or there's a smoker in the house fulling the equipment with tar and
killing the fans and moving parts. Or pet hair and equipment at floor
level...

aemeijers wrote:


-snip-
I've had close visibility of support issues and failures on a group of
about 2000 machines at the place I work, for close to ten years. If I
had 3 motherboards from different vendors go Tango Uniform in the same
residence, I'd suspect dirty power or other local conditions, rather
than poor manufacturing quality. Clusters are seldom random.

Appreciate the thought- but the HP was a recall & the Dell was a known
problem. The 'un-randomness' of those 2 was that I was buying
laptops with big processors that were running pretty hot.

The HP is mine- and with the old MB was uncomfortably hot when used on
my lap. I don't know if they replaced the processor when they
changed boards, but now it doesn't get more than about 110F after
hours of use. [it's a Pavillion DV6000 if you care]

Jim
[TU was a new one on me- and I was a Marine Radio operator 40 yrs
ago,G]

SBH wrote:
What is the general consensus regarding the purchase of reconditioned tools
vs. new? Yes, I know new is new but I see most, if not all, manufacturers
offer the complete warranty and incentives with a reconditioned tool as you
would a new. Of course, name brand is a consideration, therefore, let's
assume it's a name brand item such as Dewalt, Ridgid, Delta, Bosch, PC,
Milwaukee, Makita and so on. but not interested in Ryobi, Craftsman, Stanley
and Skil, though, they may have some higher end tools, I prefer what the
pros use. Therefore, would you purchase a reconditioned tool?


Hi,
Other than saving some money, I did not have bad experience with recon'd
tools, electronic stuffs from manufaturer. Some are just repacked open
box item returned. I am just a home owner who a lot around house.

aemeijers wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:

-snip-
You would have learned the same lesson with a new computer. In fact,
you probably would have been at greater risk with all the components
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.

I disagree here and that's what makes them a bad risk for refurbs.
Electronics failures are often the result of a specific temperature,
or a slight flexing of the part. If they don't hit that temp, or
get picked up just right in the shop, the refurb will be a failure.

My SONY tower that I referenced was fine until the room reached 74-
then it crashed. Open it up & it would cool off enough to work. A
new motherboard 7 cards cured it.

Daughter's Dell laptop was fine for a year- then began to have a
multitude of problems that were cured with a new motherboard from
Dell.

The HP I'm using was fine for 18months- then began to have weird
symptoms after it heated up a bit. Again, a warranty replacement of
the motherboard fixed it.

Electroniics fail in weird and wonderful ways.

Jim

I've had close visibility of support issues and failures on a group of
about 2000 machines at the place I work, for close to ten years. If I
had 3 motherboards from different vendors go Tango Uniform in the same
residence, I'd suspect dirty power or other local conditions, rather
than poor manufacturing quality. Clusters are seldom random.

--
aem sends...
Hi,
Refurb is some times better than brand new. Component which was marginal
already failed needing reepair or remedy. So it'll run better w/o early
failure any more. Compared to mil-spec commercial grade components has
different specs. in regard to temperature, physical stress, vibration,
atmospheric pressure, etc.

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
aemeijers wrote:


-snip-
I've had close visibility of support issues and failures on a group of
about 2000 machines at the place I work, for close to ten years. If I
had 3 motherboards from different vendors go Tango Uniform in the same
residence, I'd suspect dirty power or other local conditions, rather
than poor manufacturing quality. Clusters are seldom random.

Appreciate the thought- but the HP was a recall & the Dell was a known
problem. The 'un-randomness' of those 2 was that I was buying
laptops with big processors that were running pretty hot.

The HP is mine- and with the old MB was uncomfortably hot when used on
my lap. I don't know if they replaced the processor when they
changed boards, but now it doesn't get more than about 110F after
hours of use. [it's a Pavillion DV6000 if you care]

Jim
[TU was a new one on me- and I was a Marine Radio operator 40 yrs
ago,G]
Hmmm,
Maybe they just improved cooling for the cpu. Things are designed by
human. Often there is oversight or jus plain error. I spent most of my
working life in the field dealing with electronics(RF telecomm, IT,
military products, etc.)

On Apr 8, 2:03*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:

-snip-
You would have learned the same lesson with a new computer. *In fact,
you probably would have been at greater risk with all the components
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.

I disagree here and that's what makes them a bad risk for refurbs.
Electronics failures are often the result of a specific temperature,
or a slight flexing of the part. * * If they don't hit that temp, or
get picked up just right in the shop, the refurb will be a failure.

My SONY tower that I referenced was fine until the room reached 74-
then it crashed. *Open it up & it would cool off enough to work. * A
new motherboard 7 cards cured it.

Daughter's Dell laptop was fine for a year- then began to have a
multitude of problems that were cured with a new motherboard from
Dell.

The HP I'm using was fine for 18months- then began to have weird
symptoms after it heated up a bit. * Again, a warranty replacement of
the motherboard fixed it.

Electroniics fail in weird and wonderful ways.

Jim

That's why the very expensive aerospace/military electronics
gear is so costly. A lot of those systems are stress tested
or burn in before turning them over to the customer. When I
was rebuilding communications gear, my coworkers freaked out
when I would slam a piece of equipment down on the workbench.
I finally convinced them that it was going to get treated a
lot rougher in the field. I had a transistor act like an LC
network in a circuit one time, it was a very strange malfunction.
The transistor was fine with DC as a simple switch but as soon
as RF hit it it would transform into something evil. I've seen
all sorts of odd thermal intermittent failures in electronics
over the years and the one that had me pulling my hair out was
the Hall Effect sensor inside the distributor on my van's V8.
It would start and run when cold or hot but not when slightly
warm. I'm glad for the diagnostics in the engine computer.
Most of the malfunctions I come across these days are caused
by simple cold solder joints rather than component failure.
Unfortunately for the consumer, a lot of things are too costly
to repair because the time of a skilled technician costs more
than the item. So goes modern life.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

When I got my first job in a TV shop we fixed a lot of tractor radios
for farmers. Sometime after you fixed all the obvious stuff you would
have an intermittent problem. left. To get it to fail so I could
troubleshoot it I would hold it about six inches above the workbench
and drop it. This was nothing compared to the beating it was going to
get on the tractor.


JImmie

JIMMIE wrote:
On Apr 8, 2:03 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
-snip-
You would have learned the same lesson with a new computer. In fact,
you probably would have been at greater risk with all the components
being new as electronics tend to either be defective from the start or
last nearly forever.
I disagree here and that's what makes them a bad risk for refurbs.
Electronics failures are often the result of a specific temperature,
or a slight flexing of the part. If they don't hit that temp, or
get picked up just right in the shop, the refurb will be a failure.
My SONY tower that I referenced was fine until the room reached 74-
then it crashed. Open it up & it would cool off enough to work. A
new motherboard 7 cards cured it.
Daughter's Dell laptop was fine for a year- then began to have a
multitude of problems that were cured with a new motherboard from
Dell.
The HP I'm using was fine for 18months- then began to have weird
symptoms after it heated up a bit. Again, a warranty replacement of
the motherboard fixed it.
Electroniics fail in weird and wonderful ways.
Jim
That's why the very expensive aerospace/military electronics
gear is so costly. A lot of those systems are stress tested
or burn in before turning them over to the customer. When I
was rebuilding communications gear, my coworkers freaked out
when I would slam a piece of equipment down on the workbench.
I finally convinced them that it was going to get treated a
lot rougher in the field. I had a transistor act like an LC
network in a circuit one time, it was a very strange malfunction.
The transistor was fine with DC as a simple switch but as soon
as RF hit it it would transform into something evil. I've seen
all sorts of odd thermal intermittent failures in electronics
over the years and the one that had me pulling my hair out was
the Hall Effect sensor inside the distributor on my van's V8.
It would start and run when cold or hot but not when slightly
warm. I'm glad for the diagnostics in the engine computer.
Most of the malfunctions I come across these days are caused
by simple cold solder joints rather than component failure.
Unfortunately for the consumer, a lot of things are too costly
to repair because the time of a skilled technician costs more
than the item. So goes modern life.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

When I got my first job in a TV shop we fixed a lot of tractor radios
for farmers. Sometime after you fixed all the obvious stuff you would
have an intermittent problem. left. To get it to fail so I could
troubleshoot it I would hold it about six inches above the workbench
and drop it. This was nothing compared to the beating it was going to
get on the tractor.


JImmie

In the 70's I was fixing CB radios and a guy brought
one in that he'd mounted to the handlebars of his
motorcycle. Needless to say all of the components
that had any kind of lead length supporting the device
had broken wires. I repaired his radio and used a lot
of RTV silicone to brace and cushion all the parts and
the darn thing worked for years.

TDD

Yes, if i have the choice then i like to purchase the reconditioned
tools.
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