I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

'Round here, they put up the wallboard, then use a router to cut around
the boxes. Ask the wallboard contractor whether there will be a problem
before you do anything else. Be prepared to remove the outlets.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA

On Feb 22, 12:20�am, wrote:
I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. �I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? �I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

They can router around the box. Shouldn't be a problem. My only advice
is to mark the location of each outlet on the floor because sometimes
they'll sheetrock over them and forget to rout them out.

Hank

wrote in message
...
I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

It'll be a pita for them to install the rock with the outlets there, and
they won't fit completely into the boxes. I'd remove them.

On Feb 22, 5:03*am, "Hustlin' Hank" wrote:
On Feb 22, 12:20 am, wrote:



I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

They can router around the box. Shouldn't be a problem. My only advice
is to mark the location of each outlet on the floor because sometimes
they'll sheetrock over them and forget to rout them out.

Hank

How can they sheet rock over them and not notice if I already have the
mud ring on them? The mud ring takes them to finished floor surface
so the sheet rock would protrude out.

wrote in message
...
I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?



*Many years ago I would put the outlets on and tucked them inside of the box
when I roughed-in a room and it was okay because the drywallers measured and
precut the drywall before hanging. Now they slam the drywall up against the
box and use a RotoZip to cut out the hole using the box as a guide. The
last time I put a switch on so the crew could have lights on while working
they removed it. Now I leave everything off until the walls are painted. I
suggest that you remove the outlets and tuck the wires into the box to
reduce the possibility of them getting cut by the RotoZip.

wrote in message
How can they sheet rock over them and not notice if I already have the
mud ring on them? The mud ring takes them to finished floor surface
so the sheet rock would protrude out.

************************************************** ******

Ever watch some of these guys work?

John Grabowski wrote:

wrote in message
...
I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?



*Many years ago I would put the outlets on and tucked them inside of the
box when I roughed-in a room and it was okay because the drywallers
measured and precut the drywall before hanging. Now they slam the
drywall up against the box and use a RotoZip to cut out the hole using
the box as a guide. The last time I put a switch on so the crew could
have lights on while working they removed it. Now I leave everything
off until the walls are painted. I suggest that you remove the outlets
and tuck the wires into the box to reduce the possibility of them
getting cut by the RotoZip.

i agree, there's no way they're gonna be able to rotozip them with the
outlets in place. And i can't imagine a company precutting by
measurement. even if they did, you'd still have to unscrew the outlets
and stuff them in the box, and they'd still stick out a bit. Just
remove them.

s

On Feb 21, 9:20*pm, wrote:
I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. *I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? *I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

1. Normally, mud rings are not used for new work, the box is
installed either 1/2" or 5/8" protruding - they even have 'dimples' on
them for 1/2" out spacing.

2. The 'rockers cannot rotozip with either mud rings or outlets in
place.

3. You will be paying extra if you do not remove at least the outlets
and probably anyhow due to themudrings.

Harry K

Harry K

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

Ever watch some of these guys work?

Some of the rock teams I've seen are the biggest slobs in any of the trades.
Huge gobs of mud all over the floors. Boxes completely filled with mud.
Breaker boxes splattered to the point that wires have to be dug out with a
screwdriver. Floors not even swept when they leave. Rock scraps thrown out
windows and doors into rain and puddles. The list goes on...

"harry k" wrote in message
...
On Feb 21, 9:20 pm, wrote:
I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

1. Normally, mud rings are not used for new work, the box is
installed either 1/2" or 5/8" protruding - they even have 'dimples' on
them for 1/2" out spacing.



When would they be used? It sure isn't for old work. They're used anytime
you want or need a large box. I routinely use them for any outlet location
that has more than two cables and all kitchen outlet wiring





2. The 'rockers cannot rotozip with either mud rings or outlets in
place.

3. You will be paying extra if you do not remove at least the outlets
and probably anyhow due to themudrings.

Harry K

Harry K

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
wrote in message
How can they sheet rock over them and not notice if I already have the
mud ring on them? The mud ring takes them to finished floor surface
so the sheet rock would protrude out.

************************************************** ******

Ever watch some of these guys work?


Chuckle. Yeah, make sure the cat is outside before they get there.

Seriously, a good crew that is used to working together is awesome to
watch. They make it look so damn easy. Then, when a tiny job comes up
and you think, 'Oh, I can knock that out myself in no time', and it ends
up taking all day and still looks like crap, you feel all the stupider.

I have lots of skills and talents. Hanging (and especially mudding) rock
is not among them. I have the knowledge in my head, but the hands Just
Don't Get It.

--
aem sends...

On Feb 22, 12:20*am, wrote:
I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

You should just not roll over them. Generally, a piece of tape across
the top will protect from splatter.

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets.

Yikes. Why didn't you just install 1 or 2 per room... assuming there
aren't 36 rooms...
-----

- gpsman

On Feb 22, 9:45�am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote in message

How can they sheet rock over them and not notice if I already have the
mud ring on them? �The mud ring takes them to finished floor surface
so the sheet rock would protrude out.

************************************************** ******

Ever watch some of these guys work?


If you don't believe me, take them all out. I was just telling you
that it CAN be done by people who KNOW what they are doing.

Hank

1D1OT wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

Ever watch some of these guys work?

Some of the rock teams I've seen are the biggest slobs in any of the trades.
Huge gobs of mud all over the floors. Boxes completely filled with mud.
Breaker boxes splattered to the point that wires have to be dug out with a
screwdriver. Floors not even swept when they leave. Rock scraps thrown out
windows and doors into rain and puddles. The list goes on...


ya, but they got paid. why should they change?

Steve Barker wrote:
1D1OT wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

Ever watch some of these guys work?

Some of the rock teams I've seen are the biggest slobs in any of the
trades. Huge gobs of mud all over the floors. Boxes completely filled
with mud. Breaker boxes splattered to the point that wires have to be
dug out with a screwdriver. Floors not even swept when they leave.
Rock scraps thrown out windows and doors into rain and puddles. The
list goes on...


ya, but they got paid. why should they change?

In boom times, when the GC has to scramble for crews to meet a schedule,
they can maybe get away with that. In leaner times, a GC can afford to
be picky. If a sub does slob work and doesn't clean up after themselves,
they don't get invited back. In smaller towns, word-of-mouth spreads
fast. Better to pay a little more for quality work, and not have to do a
lot of rework and cleanup before the next trade can get in there.

--
aem, who as a kid was the one sent in to do cleanup, sends...

--
aem sends...

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 02:03:42 -0800 (PST), "Hustlin' Hank"
wrote:



They can router around the box. Shouldn't be a problem. My only advice
is to mark the location of each outlet on the floor because sometimes
they'll sheetrock over them and forget to rout them out.

Hank

The first owner of my house sheetrocked over the phone jack, and I've
never been able to find it. He was from New Orleans and cold all the
time in Baltimore, and he put another layer of walls on both outside
walls of the big bedroom, as well as the back of the closet that abuts
the townhouse next door. One two walls, I think, he used sheetrock,
and on the rearwall cork and then sheetrock.

I even called the builder and bought a set of blueprints. He was very
cooperative, and the prints weren't expensive imo.) That was before
I knew that the blueprints didn't show phone lines, and weren't even
guaranteed to be exactly right on electrical outlets or other small
things. But I"m happy I have them. still worth the money.

On Feb 22, 5:55*pm, aemeijers wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
1D1OT wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

Ever watch some of these guys work?

Some of the rock teams I've seen are the biggest slobs in any of the
trades. Huge gobs of mud all over the floors. Boxes completely filled
with mud. Breaker boxes splattered to the point that wires have to be
dug out with a screwdriver. Floors not even swept when they leave.
Rock scraps thrown out windows and doors into rain and puddles. The
list goes on...

ya, but they got paid. *why should they change?

In boom times, when the GC has to scramble for crews to meet a schedule,
they can maybe get away with that. In leaner times, a GC can afford to
be picky. If a sub does slob work and doesn't clean up after themselves,
they don't get invited back. In smaller towns, word-of-mouth spreads
fast. Better to pay a little more for quality work, and not have to do a
lot of rework and cleanup before the next trade can get in there.

--
aem, who as a kid was the one sent in to do cleanup, sends...

--
aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

When I replaced the carpet in my house I couldnt believe how much
drywall crud was underneath the carpet. This explained some of the
lumps I felt.

On the other hand when we pulled up the carpet in my in laws home not
only was the concrete floor clean, it was sealed. It looked like a
newly painted garage floor.

Jimmie

On Feb 22, 10:49*am, "RBM" wrote:
"harry k" wrote in message

...
On Feb 21, 9:20 pm, wrote:



I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

1. *Normally, mud rings are not used for new work, the box is
installed either 1/2" or 5/8" protruding - they even have 'dimples' on
them for 1/2" out spacing.

When would they be used? It sure isn't for old work. They're used anytime
you want or need a large box. I routinely use them for any outlet location
that has more than two cables and all kitchen outlet wiring

2. *The 'rockers cannot rotozip with either mud rings or outlets in
place.

3. *You will be paying extra if you do not remove at least the outlets
and probably anyhow due to themudrings.

Harry K


I did not know that.

The electricians I hired were not top rate and there were lots of
fumbles.

They told me the usual method is to set the boxes flush with the
studs, and then use mud rings to make up the difference between the
stud and finished wall. I followed their instructions and ok the work
so now all the boxes are flushed with the studs, not easy to move
since that's all rigid EMT conduit work.

Some of the boxes have quite a bit of wires, the electricians told me
to put mud ring on and that keeps the wire coiled in them until I am
ready to install the switches and outlets. Seems to make sense to me
at the time, I thought about sheet rockers using rotozip to route out
the box, but subconsciously I ruled that out because I thought with
the wires in them the rotozip would end up piercing the wirings at
best, and since I used all double gang boxes even though many of them
will actually be single gang outlets or switches, there is no way they
would be able to cut them correctly without the mud ring on. I used
double gang boxes because I ran into problem using the single box
before when I need to put in those big thick GFCI boxes it does not
leave a lot of room for wires especially if the box also serve as a
junction box so I prefer to do that to have some extra room if needed.

I didn't really think through this whole process. I am still a bit
confused about using a rotozip to cut around the inside of a box
wouldn't that have a pretty high likelihood of tearing into the wires
in the box and what about where I would have a single gang switch/
outlet but I used a double gang box.

Thanks,

JIMMIE wrote:
On Feb 22, 5:55 pm, aemeijers wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
1D1OT wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
Ever watch some of these guys work?
Some of the rock teams I've seen are the biggest slobs in any of the
trades. Huge gobs of mud all over the floors. Boxes completely filled
with mud. Breaker boxes splattered to the point that wires have to be
dug out with a screwdriver. Floors not even swept when they leave.
Rock scraps thrown out windows and doors into rain and puddles. The
list goes on...
ya, but they got paid. why should they change?
In boom times, when the GC has to scramble for crews to meet a schedule,
they can maybe get away with that. In leaner times, a GC can afford to
be picky. If a sub does slob work and doesn't clean up after themselves,
they don't get invited back. In smaller towns, word-of-mouth spreads
fast. Better to pay a little more for quality work, and not have to do a
lot of rework and cleanup before the next trade can get in there.

--
aem, who as a kid was the one sent in to do cleanup, sends...

--
aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

When I replaced the carpet in my house I couldnt believe how much
drywall crud was underneath the carpet. This explained some of the
lumps I felt.

On the other hand when we pulled up the carpet in my in laws home not
only was the concrete floor clean, it was sealed. It looked like a
newly painted garage floor.

Jimmie
Chuckle. Yeah, I got REAL familiar with one of those
half-moon-on-a-stick scraper things those 2-3 summers in high school....

--
aem sends...

I am still a bit
confused about using a rotozip to cut around the inside of a box
wouldn't that have a pretty high likelihood of tearing into the wires
in the box and what about where I would have a single gang switch/
outlet but I used a double gang box.

The router bit just pokes a little way through the other side of the
wallboard. They'll
* mark the location of the outlet on the floor,
* put the wallboard up with just a few screws,
* eyeball the location of the outlet,
* plunge the bit into the center of the box,
* move left to find the edge of the box,
* skip over to the outside of the box, and
* move clockwise around the outside, removing the rectangle.

I would take the outlets out of the boxes, but leave the mud rings on.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA

wrote:
It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.



Andy comments:

If you are talking about the actual receptacles, you will notice
that
when properly installed, the "ears" at each end are meant to lay on
the
surface of the sheet rock, which is then covered with the escutcheon
plate.

You need to take an electric screwdriver and loosen the
receptacles
so then can be tilted outward, while remaining wired in. The sheet
rock
guys will cut the pattern and fit it over the box, and the tilted
receptacles
won't be in the way... much....

Then, when the sheet rock is nailed, you can screw the
receptacles
back into the outlet box, and everything will be as if the receptacles
were
installed AFTER the sheet rock, which is the normal way.

It is a little more trouble, but you don't really have to do an
electrical
disconnect, which would really be a pain in the ass for 72 outlets.

It will slow the sheet rock boys down a little, and they will
bitch, but you
can do it.

If you don't, the holes in the sheet rock will be about a half
inch longer
than they have to be, and you will have to fill it with mud and/or
tape, to keep the receptacle from "floating" (being wobbly) . The
ears need to rest against
something solid......

Been there, done that, regretted it....

Andy in Eureka, Texas

wrote in message
...
On Feb 22, 10:49 am, "RBM" wrote:
"harry k" wrote in message

...
On Feb 21, 9:20 pm, wrote:



I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

1. Normally, mud rings are not used for new work, the box is
installed either 1/2" or 5/8" protruding - they even have 'dimples' on
them for 1/2" out spacing.

When would they be used? It sure isn't for old work. They're used anytime
you want or need a large box. I routinely use them for any outlet location
that has more than two cables and all kitchen outlet wiring

2. The 'rockers cannot rotozip with either mud rings or outlets in
place.

3. You will be paying extra if you do not remove at least the outlets
and probably anyhow due to themudrings.

Harry K


I did not know that.

The electricians I hired were not top rate and there were lots of
fumbles.

They told me the usual method is to set the boxes flush with the
studs, and then use mud rings to make up the difference between the
stud and finished wall. I followed their instructions and ok the work
so now all the boxes are flushed with the studs, not easy to move
since that's all rigid EMT conduit work.

Some of the boxes have quite a bit of wires, the electricians told me
to put mud ring on and that keeps the wire coiled in them until I am
ready to install the switches and outlets. Seems to make sense to me
at the time, I thought about sheet rockers using rotozip to route out
the box, but subconsciously I ruled that out because I thought with
the wires in them the rotozip would end up piercing the wirings at
best, and since I used all double gang boxes even though many of them
will actually be single gang outlets or switches, there is no way they
would be able to cut them correctly without the mud ring on. I used
double gang boxes because I ran into problem using the single box
before when I need to put in those big thick GFCI boxes it does not
leave a lot of room for wires especially if the box also serve as a
junction box so I prefer to do that to have some extra room if needed.

I didn't really think through this whole process. I am still a bit
confused about using a rotozip to cut around the inside of a box
wouldn't that have a pretty high likelihood of tearing into the wires
in the box and what about where I would have a single gang switch/
outlet but I used a double gang box.

Thanks,

You are talking about two different types of boxes. Some boxes, single,
double, triple gang are bang on flush mount and don't use mud rings. That
type of box is mounted to the stud with the front sticking out beyond the
stud, for the thickness of the finished wall. Other types of boxes, such as
1900 box, is mounted flush to the stud, and you install whatever depth mud
ring you need to be flush with the wall finishing. Sheet rock routers will
cut the hell out of the wires if the wires aren't pushed back or the bit is
too long. When I'm on jobs with rockers that I don't know, I like to stick
my 6'3" 220 lb frame in their faces and politely suggest they be nice to my
wires. Most rockers are pretty good today, but when those tools first came
out, it was a nightmare, the damage these guys did to the wiring.

On Feb 22, 5:39*pm, wrote:
On Feb 22, 10:49*am, "RBM" wrote:





"harry k" wrote in message

....
On Feb 21, 9:20 pm, wrote:

I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

1. *Normally, mud rings are not used for new work, the box is
installed either 1/2" or 5/8" protruding - they even have 'dimples' on
them for 1/2" out spacing.

When would they be used? It sure isn't for old work. They're used anytime
you want or need a large box. I routinely use them for any outlet location
that has more than two cables and all kitchen outlet wiring

2. *The 'rockers cannot rotozip with either mud rings or outlets in
place.

3. *You will be paying extra if you do not remove at least the outlets
and probably anyhow due to themudrings.

Harry K

I did not know that.

The electricians I hired were not top rate and there were lots of
fumbles.

They told me the usual method is to set the boxes flush with the
studs, and then use mud rings to make up the difference between the
stud and finished wall. *I followed their instructions and ok the work
so now all the boxes are flushed with the studs, not easy to move
since that's all rigid EMT conduit work.

Some of the boxes have quite a bit of wires, the electricians told me
to put mud ring on and that keeps the wire coiled in them until I am
ready to install the switches and outlets. *Seems to make sense to me
at the time, I thought about sheet rockers using rotozip to route out
the box, but subconsciously I ruled that out because I thought with
the wires in them the rotozip would end up piercing the wirings at
best, and since I used all double gang boxes even though many of them
will actually be single gang outlets or switches, there is no way they
would be able to cut them correctly without the mud ring on. *I used
double gang boxes because I ran into problem using the single box
before when I need to put in those big thick GFCI boxes it does not
leave a lot of room for wires especially if the box also serve as a
junction box so I prefer to do that to have some extra room if needed.

I didn't really think through this whole process. *I am still a bit
confused about using a rotozip to cut around the inside of a box
wouldn't that have a pretty high likelihood of tearing into the wires
in the box and what about where I would have a single gang switch/
outlet but I used a double gang box.

Thanks,- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There may be a bit of confusion here. There are two types of box add-
ons.

1. Mud ring - meant to be used for plaster work. Been a long time
since I looked at one of those so I don't recall how much they 'stick
out'. It isn't much, just the thickness of the plaster coats.

2. Box extenders - used to increase the amount of room in the box.

They are quite different animals.

Harry K

On Feb 22, 12:20*am, wrote:
I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. *I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? *I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

What you really want to do is to buy a metal cutting blade for your
chop saw. If you don't have a chop saw rent one. Cut the ends off of
enough handy box blank covers to cover the openings in all of the mud
rings. you cut them off just beyond the screw holes. If you have
room to tip the entire device into the box then do so. If you do not
have enough room to fit the entire device in the box then remove the
devices. Install the handy box covers. Tell the dry wall foreman
that he will be back charged for every cover that is removed whether
damage occurs or not. Be clear with her/him that the boards must be
applied with the covers in place. If they know their business they
will position the board, stab the Rotozip bit onto the cover, fall off
the edge of the cover, and cut out around the cover for a perfect
fitting hole every time. With mud rings there is no reason to cut
around the inside of the ring. The only way the ring will fit in the
opening is to cut around the outside of the ring's raised opening. A
few local jurisdictions in states that still allow local option
require that tile/panel rings be used in drywall on the grounds that
mud rings are only suitable for a real plaster wall.

I personally use mud rings that have an actual raise that matches the
thickness of the sheet rock being used. To obtain that I use rings
with a nominal thickness one eighth inch thicker then the nominal
thickness of the drywall. What I get for my trouble is a ring that
actually comes all the way out to the surface of the drywall. As a
result the device ears do not depend on the drywall for support. I
get no floating devices that way. I have been praised by several
owners for the fit and finish of my work.

--
Tom Horne

On Feb 22, 10:49*am, "RBM" wrote:
"harry k" wrote in message

...
On Feb 21, 9:20 pm, wrote:



I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

1. *Normally, mud rings are not used for new work, the box is
installed either 1/2" or 5/8" protruding - they even have 'dimples' on
them for 1/2" out spacing.

When would they be used? It sure isn't for old work. They're used anytime
you want or need a large box. I routinely use them for any outlet location
that has more than two cables and all kitchen outlet wiring

2. *The 'rockers cannot rotozip with either mud rings or outlets in
place.

3. *You will be paying extra if you do not remove at least the outlets
and probably anyhow due to themudrings.

Harry K


One more question. How do they cut out for the ceiling hi hat lights
and exhaust fans that are there already? They can't use a router to
route around the can or do they?

On Feb 22, 2:09�pm, "Hustlin' Hank" wrote:

Please disregard any of my previous posts on this subject. I was
confusing the mud ring with something else.

I apologize.

Hank

On Feb 22, 11:56*pm, Tom Horne wrote:
On Feb 22, 12:20*am, wrote:



I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. *I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? *I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

What you really want to do is to buy a metal cutting blade for your
chop saw. *If you don't have a chop saw rent one. *Cut the ends off of
enough handy box blank covers to cover the openings in all of the mud
rings. *you cut them off just beyond the screw holes. *If you have
room to tip the entire device into the box then do so. *If you do not
have enough room to fit the entire device in the box then remove the
devices. *Install the handy box covers. *Tell the dry wall foreman
that he will be back charged for every cover that is removed whether
damage occurs or not. *Be clear with her/him that the boards must be
applied with the covers in place. *If they know their business they
will position the board, stab the Rotozip bit onto the cover, fall off
the edge of the cover, and *cut out around the cover for a perfect
fitting hole every time. *With mud rings there is no reason to cut
around the inside of the ring. *The only way the ring will fit in the
opening is to cut around the outside of the ring's raised opening. *A
few local jurisdictions in states that still allow local option
require that tile/panel rings be used in drywall on the grounds that
mud rings are only suitable for a real plaster wall.

I personally use mud rings that have an actual raise that matches the
thickness of the sheet rock being used. *To obtain that *I use rings
with a nominal thickness one eighth inch thicker then the nominal
thickness of the drywall. *What I get for my trouble is a ring that
actually comes all the way out to the surface of the drywall. *As a
result the device ears do not depend on the drywall for support. *I
get no floating devices that way. *I have been praised by several
owners for the fit and finish of my work.

--
Tom Horne

Tom:

In my house I have about 70% of the sheet rock down. Most of those
would be replaced by 1/2" standard sheet rock, but the existing sheet
rock remains in some areas. It may be difficult to match the
thickness since the existing wall is a layer of cement material with a
layer of gypsum board backing, and top coated with plasters. It is
very difficult to demo this material, as around all the wall or
ceiling corners is embedded wire mesh that makes it very difficult to
not get a lot of tear outs.

My boxes are all flushed with the studs, and there are 3/8" or
1/2" (have to check) raised mud rings on them. I attach the
receptacles to the mud ring holes, not the sheet rock. Part of the
reason for doing so is in the event I have to change my mind on some
walls on the thickness in order to match existing, I an vary the mud
ring thickness instead of messing with the box.

I think I follow your suggestion is to basically create a template to
mount on top of the mud ring, such template is created by shaving off
say 3/8" on all sides of a blank cover plate, so the sheet rockers
will route around the outside of the plate instead of the inside of
the box. This is certainly a solution. It also serves as a neat way
to protect the device or the wires from being exposed to the dust and
mud during the process.

I guess one question I have is since the mud ring is raised, why can't
the sheet rockers route around the outside of the raised portion? Is
it because the raised portion is not a square edge and hence the cut
will not be clean and neat? Just seem like chopping up a lot of metal
cover plates would be quite a bit of work as well.

Commercial sheet rockers are all well prepared to rout around
plaster rings. There are even some who are quite willing to
measure and cut, though the 1/2" residential boys have gone to
hanging first and cutting after. The plaster rings will need to
be the proper depth before the rock is hung, so your old plaster
areas may need much deeper plaster rings. You don't get to change
your mind after the rock is on. It sounds to me that your best
approach would be to talk to the sheetrocker. The receps need to
be out of the hole for ease of cutting and good smooth tape and
bed. The boxes will get lots of mud in them, or you can buy or
make little sponge or plastic hole fillers. Here is one version
from Crouse Hinds:
http://www.crouse-hinds.com/crousehi...Metalguard.pdf

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
...
On Feb 22, 11:56 pm, Tom Horne wrote:
On Feb 22, 12:20 am, wrote:



I have a major renovation going on and during framing,
plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension
cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so
I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should
remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock
installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just
tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes
and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I
also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into
the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they
typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have
to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

What you really want to do is to buy a metal cutting blade for
your
chop saw. If you don't have a chop saw rent one. Cut the ends
off of
enough handy box blank covers to cover the openings in all of
the mud
rings. you cut them off just beyond the screw holes. If you have
room to tip the entire device into the box then do so. If you do
not
have enough room to fit the entire device in the box then remove
the
devices. Install the handy box covers. Tell the dry wall foreman
that he will be back charged for every cover that is removed
whether
damage occurs or not. Be clear with her/him that the boards must
be
applied with the covers in place. If they know their business
they
will position the board, stab the Rotozip bit onto the cover,
fall off
the edge of the cover, and cut out around the cover for a
perfect
fitting hole every time. With mud rings there is no reason to
cut
around the inside of the ring. The only way the ring will fit in
the
opening is to cut around the outside of the ring's raised
opening. A
few local jurisdictions in states that still allow local option
require that tile/panel rings be used in drywall on the grounds
that
mud rings are only suitable for a real plaster wall.

I personally use mud rings that have an actual raise that
matches the
thickness of the sheet rock being used. To obtain that I use
rings
with a nominal thickness one eighth inch thicker then the
nominal
thickness of the drywall. What I get for my trouble is a ring
that
actually comes all the way out to the surface of the drywall. As
a
result the device ears do not depend on the drywall for support.
I
get no floating devices that way. I have been praised by several
owners for the fit and finish of my work.

--
Tom Horne

Tom:

In my house I have about 70% of the sheet rock down. Most of
those
would be replaced by 1/2" standard sheet rock, but the existing
sheet
rock remains in some areas. It may be difficult to match the
thickness since the existing wall is a layer of cement material
with a
layer of gypsum board backing, and top coated with plasters. It
is
very difficult to demo this material, as around all the wall or
ceiling corners is embedded wire mesh that makes it very difficult
to
not get a lot of tear outs.

My boxes are all flushed with the studs, and there are 3/8" or
1/2" (have to check) raised mud rings on them. I attach the
receptacles to the mud ring holes, not the sheet rock. Part of
the
reason for doing so is in the event I have to change my mind on
some
walls on the thickness in order to match existing, I an vary the
mud
ring thickness instead of messing with the box.

I think I follow your suggestion is to basically create a template
to
mount on top of the mud ring, such template is created by shaving
off
say 3/8" on all sides of a blank cover plate, so the sheet rockers
will route around the outside of the plate instead of the inside
of
the box. This is certainly a solution. It also serves as a neat
way
to protect the device or the wires from being exposed to the dust
and
mud during the process.

I guess one question I have is since the mud ring is raised, why
can't
the sheet rockers route around the outside of the raised portion?
Is
it because the raised portion is not a square edge and hence the
cut
will not be clean and neat? Just seem like chopping up a lot of
metal
cover plates would be quite a bit of work as well.

"SteveBell" wrote in message
a.org...

I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

'Round here, they put up the wallboard, then use a router to cut around
the boxes. Ask the wallboard contractor whether there will be a problem
before you do anything else. Be prepared to remove the outlets.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA

You should remove all the outlets except for a couple for the sheetrockers
and other subs to use..Usually the one behind the fridg and one in a bedroom
or laundry room on the other side of the house that isn't conspicuos is the
norm..A PITA for you to remove them but you'll be glad you did..They
shouldn't have been installed in the first place...Believe me....Saves a ton
of time for the rocker , mudders and painters which will save you money cuz
time IS money and they WILL charge extra...We do as most are paid by the
sheet...Plus the safety factor for the workers...You will have a much better
job as well...As for sheetrockers being the biggest slobs..You try to mud
ceilings without getting mud on the floor or mud in the boxes and get it
done in a timely manner...That said , most all around here scrape and sweep
the floor and clean out the boxes after sanding is done...We have a guy who
drives the one ton rack truck around that picks up the scrap sheetrock and
hauls it to the dump for the rockers and scrapes and sweeps the floor behind
us tapers as well as delivering supplies..The tapers clean out the
boxes....I'm sure there are hacks that don't but you get what you pay for as
in all things....

DanG this is very helpful thanks.

"DanG" wrote in message
...
Commercial sheet rockers are all well prepared to rout around plaster
rings. There are even some who are quite willing to measure and cut,
though the 1/2" residential boys have gone to hanging first and cutting
after. The plaster rings will need to be the proper depth before the rock
is hung, so your old plaster areas may need much deeper plaster rings.
You don't get to change your mind after the rock is on. It sounds to me
that your best approach would be to talk to the sheetrocker. The receps
need to be out of the hole for ease of cutting and good smooth tape and
bed. The boxes will get lots of mud in them, or you can buy or make
little sponge or plastic hole fillers. Here is one version from Crouse
Hinds:
http://www.crouse-hinds.com/crousehi...Metalguard.pdf

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
...
On Feb 22, 11:56 pm, Tom Horne wrote:
On Feb 22, 12:20 am, wrote:



I have a major renovation going on and during framing, plumbing and
electrical rough in I got sick of dragging a 100' extension cord
everywhere and have to use those dim work lights after dark so I went
ahead and install most of the outlets.

Now I am ready to do sheet rock I am wondering if I should remove the
outlets so they don't get damaged during sheet rock installation or
get rolled on later when I paint the walls...or should I just tape
over them and peel the tape off later?

It will be some work to remove these outlets from the boxes and
install them back later, we are talking about 72 outlets. I also
wonder if I can just unscrew the outlets and stick them into the
electrical box.

I will be hiring out for the sheet rock work, do they typically precut
the wall board for the electrical cutouts? I think they have to since
I already have the mud rings on, right?

Thanks,

MC

What you really want to do is to buy a metal cutting blade for your
chop saw. If you don't have a chop saw rent one. Cut the ends off of
enough handy box blank covers to cover the openings in all of the mud
rings. you cut them off just beyond the screw holes. If you have
room to tip the entire device into the box then do so. If you do not
have enough room to fit the entire device in the box then remove the
devices. Install the handy box covers. Tell the dry wall foreman
that he will be back charged for every cover that is removed whether
damage occurs or not. Be clear with her/him that the boards must be
applied with the covers in place. If they know their business they
will position the board, stab the Rotozip bit onto the cover, fall off
the edge of the cover, and cut out around the cover for a perfect
fitting hole every time. With mud rings there is no reason to cut
around the inside of the ring. The only way the ring will fit in the
opening is to cut around the outside of the ring's raised opening. A
few local jurisdictions in states that still allow local option
require that tile/panel rings be used in drywall on the grounds that
mud rings are only suitable for a real plaster wall.

I personally use mud rings that have an actual raise that matches the
thickness of the sheet rock being used. To obtain that I use rings
with a nominal thickness one eighth inch thicker then the nominal
thickness of the drywall. What I get for my trouble is a ring that
actually comes all the way out to the surface of the drywall. As a
result the device ears do not depend on the drywall for support. I
get no floating devices that way. I have been praised by several
owners for the fit and finish of my work.

--
Tom Horne

Tom:

In my house I have about 70% of the sheet rock down. Most of those
would be replaced by 1/2" standard sheet rock, but the existing sheet
rock remains in some areas. It may be difficult to match the
thickness since the existing wall is a layer of cement material with a
layer of gypsum board backing, and top coated with plasters. It is
very difficult to demo this material, as around all the wall or
ceiling corners is embedded wire mesh that makes it very difficult to
not get a lot of tear outs.

My boxes are all flushed with the studs, and there are 3/8" or
1/2" (have to check) raised mud rings on them. I attach the
receptacles to the mud ring holes, not the sheet rock. Part of the
reason for doing so is in the event I have to change my mind on some
walls on the thickness in order to match existing, I an vary the mud
ring thickness instead of messing with the box.

I think I follow your suggestion is to basically create a template to
mount on top of the mud ring, such template is created by shaving off
say 3/8" on all sides of a blank cover plate, so the sheet rockers
will route around the outside of the plate instead of the inside of
the box. This is certainly a solution. It also serves as a neat way
to protect the device or the wires from being exposed to the dust and
mud during the process.

I guess one question I have is since the mud ring is raised, why can't
the sheet rockers route around the outside of the raised portion? Is
it because the raised portion is not a square edge and hence the cut
will not be clean and neat? Just seem like chopping up a lot of metal
cover plates would be quite a bit of work as well.